Gail Santa Maria had put one thing in question form, and that was enough to send Hillary Clinton into her "guns" riff. When Hillary got to the end of that riff, Gail Santa Maria said: "My question is, why does anyone..." And the moderator, Christiane Amanpour, cut her off with a stern "You just had a question. Sorry, ma'am" and moved on. That made me feel bad for the school teacher, who was an unusually timorous lady. And yet... the pacing cannot slow way down for humble little people like this.
But in fact, the school teacher was not too timorous to talk over Hillary and say "74 more" when Hillary said the line "the horrors of the shootings at Sandy Hook and now we've had more in the time since." Hillary's "more" triggered the teacher's "74 more," a repetition of the dubious factoid that is getting lodged in voters' brains. Hillary herself never uttered the dubious factoid, but her "more" made the timid schoolteacher say "74 more." No one is accountable for that heavily inflated number, but we heard it. We heard it as if we were hearing our own internal voice. Yes, we already know that. The number is 74.
Now, let's get into the substance of Hillary's "guns" riff, which contains the amazing assertion that I've put in the post title. She begins:
First of all, I think as a teacher or really any parent, what's been happening with these school shootings should cause everybody to just think hard."Hard" is Hillary's key word. It's her book title — "Hard Choices" — and it's an all-purpose boast and excuse. She's capable of doing what's hard and, when things are hard, one can't be expected to get everything exactly right. And yes, "hard" invites her critics to mock her in a sexual way, as Rush Limbaugh did on his show yesterday: Hard Choices? Hard?!! That's going to make everyone think of Bill Clinton's erections. I'm paraphrasing. What Rush said was: "Now, if Bill had a book and the title of that was Hard Choices with the foreword by Monica Lewinsky, then maybe you might have a book that would walk itself off the shelves."
Back to the town hall transcript. We've seen that Hillary has led off with her core theme: It's hard.
Which seems to say: We all should just first pause and think about how hard it all is. She expands on hardness:
We make hard choices and we balance competing values all the time.This might make you think she's about to give a balanced presentation with careful attention to the opinions and preferences of those who see deep meaning in the right to bear arms. But the values on one side of this values competition dominate:
And I was disappointed that the Congress did not pass universal background checks after the horrors of the shootings at Sandy Hook and now we've had more... in the time since.Hot political subject, yes, but I thought you said there were values here and that it was hard to balance them. Are the gun-rights people just political heat you have to face or do you genuinely contemplate their values?
And I don't think any parent, any person should have to fear about their child going to school or going to college because someone, for whatever reasons -- psychological, emotional, political, ideological, whatever it means -- could possibly enter that school property with an automatic weapon and murder innocent children, students, teachers.
I'm well aware that this is a hot political subject.
And again, I will speak out no matter what role I find myself in.That's the next line because she mentioned politics, and she must always pose as if she has not yet decided to run for President.
But I believe that we need a more thoughtful conversation.Yes? Do tell. We're going to balance those competing values? We're going to cool down and actually think about everything? NO! The next thing she says is:
We cannot let a minority of people -- and that's what it is, it is a minority of people -- hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people.Whoa! That's the line I was looking for. Read it again and see how shocking it is. Not only did Hillary completely turn her back on "balanc[ing] competing values" and "more thoughtful conversation," she doesn't want to allow the people on one side of the conversation even to believe what they believe. Those who care about gun rights and reject new gun regulations should be stopped from holding their viewpoint. Now, it isn't possible to forcibly prevent people from holding a viewpoint. Our beliefs reside inside our head. And in our system of free speech rights, the government cannot censor the expression of a viewpoint. But the question is Hillary Clinton's fitness for the highest office, and her statement reveals a grandiose and profoundly repressive mindset.
I'm sure if she'd anticipated this criticism, she would have reworded it and made it clear that her point was only that in a democracy, the majority should win. Even that is open to critique. The majority only wins with respect to thing that are determined by majoritarian decisionmaking. Some things are reserved to individuals, and we could have thoughtful conversations — if we wanted to do some hard intellectual work — about what matters belong to the individual and not to the majority. What gun rights are to some Americans abortion rights are to others.
But Hillary leaps over these hard questions.
So, my view is that yes, we need to thrash this out in the political realm.Thrash? Is thrashing "thoughtful"? Is thrashing the balancing of an array of values? Apparently, this isn't even a hard choice. The good people already know the answer:
But the vast majority of Americans, even law abiding gun owners, people... who want background checks that work, information that is shared immediately, and an awareness that, you know, we're going to have to do a better job protecting the vast majority of our citizens, including our children, from that very, very, very small group that is unfortunately prone to violence and now with automatic weapons can wreak so much more violence than they ever could have before.The vast majority of Americans want to protect the vast majority of our citizens. At that level of generality, who can disagree? And I guess she gets to her "vast majority" by including all the people — like the NRA — who want effective enforcement of background checking requirements already on the books. Obviously, no one worth talking about wants murder, but that wasn't the topic we were supposedly about to have a thoughtful conversation about.
Hillary Clinton poses as the coolly thoughtful presider over a national conversation, but if you listen to what she's saying, she already has her answers and she's not going to let hold you hold any other viewpoint. The woman who once famously said...
I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic...... is now ready to deploy the verb "to terrorize" against those who debate and disagree with her.
ADDED: The video (via Power Line):
पोस्ट्स
९९ टिप्पण्या:
Nothing more entertaining and frightening in politics than watching the ignorant ask the ignorant for solutions. Inevitably, the solution proposed manages to be worthless and oppressive.
Yes, I'm going to be that guy who says, "automatic weapons?" Has there been a single school shooting in the history of the United States that involved automatic weapons? I don't think there has been one anywhere outside the Middle East and Beslan. And it isn't just a slip of the tongue, she says it twice.
More imprecise language games, just like the constant conflation of "immigration" with "illegal immigration."
"[S]he already has her answers and she's not going to let hold you hold any other viewpoint."
Sounds just like Ann Althouse, who once claimed to never, ever be wrong.
Althouse, you just don't like her, and you never will. Whether it's jealousy of her as a more successful woman of your generation or as someone whose opinions carry much more influence than yours, please don't try to intellectualize your bias. You look like a terrible hypocrite.
"I'm sure if she'd anticipated this criticism, she would have reworded it and made it clear that her point was only that in a democracy, the majority should win."
Same-sex marriage.
Growing up in Norway, I was taught that a democracy is a place where the majority rules, with due regard for the rights of the minority.
All of these principles had a qualifying clause going with them the way we were taught, but in this country these clauses make the slogans too long, and they seem to have been dropped.
A viewpoint that terrorizes the vast majority of Americans?
Viewpoints in favor of abortion rights? Or the viewpoint that insists fetuses are deserving of the same legal protection as infants, children, teens, and adults?
What about viewpoints of sexual morality that are at odds over whether/how the State should recognize same-sex couples? Why should the State favor one view over the other?
I'm not surprised that Hillary would use such rhetoric to support her causes, and ignore it where it would not support her causes.
I am surprised that few commentators have asked these questions.
------------------------------
Point of order about universal background checks:
They can make a felon out of a husband who wishes to give a rifle to his wife and a friend for training purposes.
Universal background checks sound good, until I see that the details can turn me into a criminal for letting my hunting buddy test-fire my rifle during target practice...
As with Obama, how many of us will lap up the "feeling" of her words without the slightest recognition of the actual content? The Founders always knew that the strength of democracy depended entirely on the civic virtues of the citizenry, which is why they devised a limited government based on an explicit grant of powers, so that BS artists like Hillary! could do minimum damage to the body politic, even if they took advantage of a temporary mass derangement. But combine the slippery slope of an ever-increasing government machine, a citizenry who feels rather than thinks, and demagogues convinced that they need to take care of us and you have something neither the Founders nor Lincoln would recognize.
No wonder Bill has cheated on her throughout their marriage. What a control freak she is. And someone needs to explain to her what an automatic weapon is. It's something that shoots multiply times with one pull of the trigger. Like Bill's dick. Not that she understands that either.
There have been no mass shootings with automatic weapons. Every other weapon, including single shot devices, is a semi-automatic weapon. Either way you get to say automatic and that is the main thing. That and 74.
" Now, it isn't possible to forcibly prevent people from holding a viewpoint. "
Like it was when the Gay Thugs went after anybody who had donated to the CA Prop 8 Campaign?
Or when Governor Cuomo said, "“The Republican Party candidates are running against the SAFE Act — it was voted for by moderate Republicans who run the Senate! Their problem is not me and the Democrats; their problem is themselves. Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault-weapon, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and they’re the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.”
To the reeducation camps or better yet, the vats with thee, you lifest!!
That 74 thing, for some reason I'm always amazed how fast a lie can become a parroted truth in the cultural hivemind (even though I shouldn't be).
I always find these sorts of TV events revolting. Everything is so fake, predetermined, and contrived I can never watch them. Our entire process for selecting a president in our modern times is repulsive to me.
"Many of you are well enough off that the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Senator Hillary Clinton, June 28, 2004
"Now, it isn't possible to forcibly prevent people from holding a viewpoint."
It most certainly is possible. It's been done in many places at many times. The very next sentence you wrote shows the way.
There are people on the right who are terrorizing people on the left by expressing their contrary political views, Hilliary, what say you about that?
Oh, I see, you claim the First Amendment is different from the Second Amendment. You don't? Then what the hell are you talking about?
Hillary has a history of wishing to compel behavior and deny rights.
Zeifman contends that in 1974 a young lawyer who shared an office with Clinton came to him to apologize that he and Clinton had lied to him. The lawyer, John Labovitz, is quoted as saying that he was dismayed with "...her erroneous legal opinions and efforts to deny Nixon representation by counsel -- as well as an unwillingness to investigate Nixon."
The reasoning is also interesting. Ted Kennedy feared that Nixon, if impeached, would being up evidence of John Kennedy's actions in the White House.
The "74" has been thoroughly debunked numerous times. That doesn't stop Hillary from using made-up facts and junk science whenever it suits her, of course.
I do understand that many liberals are terrorized by guns, period, making no distinction between guns in the hands of inner city gang bangers and guns in the hands of ordinary citizens exercising their right to self defense. I note that in big cities such as Chicago and Washington, DC, the stringent anti-gun laws were only ever exercised against the latter, and there never was any effort to disarm the criminal element (New York's "stop and frisk" being the major exception).
At any rate, I think that the "vast majority" of American citizens are not particularly terrorized by legal guns in private ownership where the owners have passed background checks. I think the terror is limited to a few kooks.
Like her.
I think maybe the job is going to be too hard for her.
Hillary Clinton is a smart person who studied political science in college and law post-grad. She has read The Federalist Papers, Montesquieu, Mill, and America's founding documents.
So she knows what "tyranny of the majority" means, and what "inalienable rights" are.
She does not deploy such concepts in her thinking and speaking, though. I suspect that the Professor has her nailed here: Hillary Clinton doesn't think that way. She thinks her own philosophies should trump everyone else's.
9:35: "Althouse, you just don't like her, and you never will. Whether it's jealousy of her as a more successful woman of your generation ...."
H-m-m, let's see, political hack vs. tenured law professor. I'm no Althouse defender and I'm a former elected official, but I say the measure of success is how well you do your job. By that measure, Hillary has not been successful at anything since she left the Rose Law Firm.
"We cannot let a minority of people -- and that's what it is, it is a minority of people -- hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people."
If a repub said this it would be rephrased:
We cannot let minorities terrorize people.
Discuss
"Whether it's jealousy of her as a more successful woman of your generation or as someone whose opinions carry much more influence than yours"
Heyooyeh takes Althouse to task for not marrying Bill Clinton.
What is there that is to be jealous of?
I don't relate to Hilary, but it may be age.
Well, if we're going to ban "automatic weapons," we should also ban rayguns, and most especially phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range. After all, they've all been involved in the same number of school shootings: ZERO
I love how she is off on the background check thing, without really knowing what she is talking about. But, it sounds good, and the left loves it. So, she said it. Deep down, I have no doubt that she is a gun grabber like few in this country - it is just how autocrats like her think.
The problem is, and will continue to be, that a lot of firearms transactions fly under fed radar. Not when buying guns from someone engaged in the business (including, yes, at gun shows), but the rest of the time. When people die, with guns in their estates. When you buy a gun for your kid at Christmas. Or, the guy down the block trades a gun for a chainsaw (actually, that sort of trading is very popular in parts of rural America). Some of the background check proposals are so bad, that you would need a formal background check to loan someone a gun at the range, with you standing right next to them. When the proposed laws say "no transfers", that is what they are talking about - no one can touch your gun without a background check. Not your wife, your siblings, your best friend of 50 years. No one. And, no one should be surprised that Hillary! would back it.
I also liked that Ann caught Hillary! trying to slide around the 2nd Amdt. This is specifically not one of those things subject to majoritarian rule. Not even close. It is a fundamental enumerated right in our Constitution, and requires a super, super, majority to change. And, it was put there almost specifically for people like Hillary!, when the anti-federalists finally overcame the federalists in terms of protecting fundamental rights from majoritarian excesses.
I'm sure if she'd anticipated this criticism, she would have reworded it and made it clear that her point was only that in a democracy, the majority should win. Even that is open to critique. The majority only wins with respect to things that are determined by majoritarian decision making. Some things are reserved to individuals, and we could have thoughtful conversations — if we wanted to do some hard intellectual work — about what matters belong to the individual and not to the majority. What gun rights are to some Americans abortion rights are to others.
Bad form Ann! This is a Representative Democracy and might (or majority) should not always make right. The fact that she meant it and you said it is the shame. You should (could) have made that point.
Additionally she incorrectly says (and I am not sure if on purpose or not) "automatic weapons" when rarely are "automatic weapons" used by non-Government persons in shootings. If they are used they are extremely likely to be illegally obtained so all the rest of the rules and regulations amount to squat. Legally owning fully-automatic weapons (which is the definition of "automatic weapons") is a expensive and hard process so those that take the trouble are not likely to then use them in a crime.
What she should have said was "semi-automatic weapons" but that does carry quite the "fear tag" that the other term does or she is completely ignorant about guns.
More lib posturing and echo-chamber talk.
Her broomstick landed in Seattle this morning.
There was a recent school shooting by some guy with a shotgun at Seattle Pacific College. She is weaving that into her messaging. Of course, the shotgun is referred to as an automatic weapon in her re-telling.
Like the current occupant of the White House Hilary! is a totalitarian at heart and has -- as famously defined by Michael Kinsley -- committed a "gaffe." That is, she accidentally told the truth when revealing that she wished to eliminate opposing viewpoints. And like Obama she will need an army of straw men for her to torch on her way to making that happen. For proof, see "automatic weapons" above.
We cannot let a minority of people -- and that's what it is, it is a minority of people -- hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people.
If Hillary's the Democratic candidate for President in 2016, I would recommend to the Communist Workers Party that they vote Republican. At least if they wish to continue holding those odious minority viewpoints.
Hillary doesn't believe any of it.
Direct the criticism at the moron audience.
To clarify my 10:10: Most politicians and many people, particularly Democrats, think the measure of success for a politician is getting re-elected. Obama has contributed to that state of mind which he obviously shares.
And that's our problem, isn't it?!!!
We cannot let a minority of people -- and that's what it is, it is a minority of people -- hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people.
Believing in the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people?
No.
For the most part, these people who talk about "guns" do not know the difference between a semi-automatic and an actual automatic weapon. Their focus on so-called "assault weapons" proves their ignorance.
"...A minority..." These people don't get it that the reason the NRA is "so powerful" is because so many people agree with them. If they didn't, they would not be powerful.
Yay, we've got an excellent chance of getting 8 years of this, all because ... vagina.
There is a very short (25 minute) movie titled "13" which was made in 1955 which details the life of a troubled teen. If you have the TCM app you can watch it now. Amazing to see how an incident of gun violence was handled. In 1955.
It was stunning to watch the scene where the schools guidance counselor walked the boy home and handed the gun back to the stepfather.
'We're going to balance those competing values'
The regime in Iran is no different than the one here in the constitutional Republic of the USA, you see, as long as 'the People' voted for it.
I suspect value pluralism is a better option than the authoritarian consequences of emotional activism around gun control (to which Hillary has to 'own' now, along with another new image).
The same questions still stand for what parts of the Democratic Party increasingly are becoming:
How will you avoid tyranny of the majority scenarios, and running roughshod over our individual liberties and responsibilities by whipping up the crowd just to get and maintain power?
What happens to all of us after you've eroded the rule of law and all those 'minority' protections?
What exactly are the moral claims of YOUR authority to be in charge of all of us?
These constitute among the greatest threats to liberty and the American project in my estimation.
The interesting thing is will Obama throw her under his bus before he leaves office? If she starts to nitpick his policies and performance, I bet he will. And at some point, Hillary has to distance herself from his failed economy policies and record.
"'Hard' is Hillary's key word."
Yes, but for her it's just a word she uses to avoid saying anything of substance, anything that might qualify as politically hard. It's a word that, in Hillary-speak, is usually packaged with an injunction to "think hard" or some equally squishy equivalent. Evidently, Hillary! expects everyone to skip over the fact that, as an all-but-declared candidate for the presidency, we expect her already to have 'thought hard' about the issues she wants to deal with if elected, and to tell us what she would do about it. But she has no intention of doing that -- instead, she sticks to verbal mush, a fair selection of which is featured in this blogpost.
The second fact about Hillary! that jumps out is that she is not particularly adept at speaking without a script. The silliness about a 'viewpoint' that 'terrorizes' is just one of many similar verbal screw-ups for her. In the same vein, she is quite sloppy even in her prepared spiels, as in this one about guns. For example, she evidently does not understand that automatic weapons have been illegal in the US for a long time. For someone who has been a fixture on the national scene for 20+ years, that is a remarkable failing.
All of that is quite dangerous for a candidate already suffering from a trust deficit with the public. She comes across as charmless stiff determined never to level with the public, and whose every utterance is dictated by whatever the polling and focus groups tells her might work.
View points cannot terrorize. Even actual unsavory ones, like that the short suit is fashionable.
You can all mock Hillary, but how many of YOU have dodged sniper fire like she did in Bosnia?
How many of the recent mass/school shootings would have been stopped by these background checks and high capacity magazine bans?
Off the top of my head, the school shootings have recently been done with guns legally obtained by their owners who were either the shooters themselves or the parents.
The Oregon and California shootings didn't involve high capacity magazines.
I'm not sure if we know yet where the Las Vegas/non school shooters got their guns. These were not real governmenty people, so I'm guessing the laws meant little to them.
Now, if people want there to be some personality testing involved in background checks, they should say so. If they want medical records included in background checks, they should say so.
I'm like everyone else- I don't want anymore mass shootings. They horrify me. But people sound so hollow when they just declare "Not one more!" and "more gun control" and "i'm against guns" while offering up solutions that would not have stopped any of these shootings.
Michael The Magnificent said...
Well, if we're going to ban "automatic weapons," we should also ban rayguns, and most especially phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range.
You can have my phased plasma rifle when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
74.
74 acts of bestiality committed just this year by leading democrats. What a horrific fact. 74 times kind and gentle innocent creatures of Mother Gaia have be brutalized by leading democrats.
I call upon all leading democrats to stop this holocaust of sacrilegious debasement. By passing powerful new laws giving us far more power over the day to day actions of leading democrats. Just think of the crying baby puppies!
"And I don't think any parent, any person should have to fear about their child going to school or going to college because someone, for whatever reasons -- psychological, emotional, political, ideological, whatever it means -- could possibly enter that school property with an automatic weapon and murder innocent children, students, teachers. "
I don't either, which is why guards! with a gun should be at every school. We do it for banks and court rooms. We can do it for schools.
And metal detectors.
When I went to high school they installed metal detectors. And I assumed that there were some security that had access to guns. If they didn't they should have. We didn't have school shootings, but we had plenty of kids bringing knives to school. Schools need to be fortresses against people who want to come in.
If you value your kids treat them like your bank treats your money.
"She doesn't believe it herself"
coincidentally,
The fundamental problem is that both in small and big things the Obama administration has poisoned its information stores... What the administration needs most is the truth — about something — anything. It needs a starting point.
Belmont Club
It is my belief that the school shooting phenomenon-- and that "74" number is a huge lie-- is directly rooted in the vilification of firearms by the leftist education apparatus.
When shooting was a widely accepted, even admired skill, whether for sport, self-defense or the defense of the republic, these events were extremely rare. By vilifying guns, educators have given them an aura of transgression.
This is ultimately what the Dylan Klebolds and Rodger Elliotts are seeking. They have been forced to swallow ignominy, forced by the system to suppress hostility, forbidden to work things out with their fists as teenagers have done for millennia. What they seek is the greatest transgression available to them. They have been taught that guns are evil, so when they choose to do evil they use guns.
Ann,
"Hillary Clinton cannot let you hold a viewpoint about guns that is terrorizing the vast majority of Americans."
I can't tell if you're for or against this. Let's try a thought experiment:
"Ann Althouse cannot let you hold a viewpoint about gays that [was] terrorizing the vast majority of Americans."
Problem? Here's another:
"The Crack Emcee cannot let you hold a viewpoint about black Americans that is terrorizing the vast majority of black Americans."
See - THAT'S still the motherfucker right there.
And they wonder why I'm one-note,...
Sounds just like Ann Althouse, who once claimed to never, ever be wrong.
Anyone who makes a claim like that is wrong right off the bat.
Which makes me wonder if the Professor actually said it.
Or are you ever wrong?
Nothing new here--Hillary has a bit of a fascist streak. If you thought Obama's respect for the rule of law and processes was dismal, you ain't seen nothing yet.
I also like how despite all their anti-gun rhetoric, hacks like Hillary (and Obama for that matter) seem to favor rather weak wristed solutions. Universal background checks. Was it really a lack of background checks that caused the latest mass shootings? Assault weapons bans. Were these shootings done with assault weapons that would have been covered by the ban? If so, would the shootings still have been deadly with legal firearms?
They still fear the NRA and gun owners to such an extent they're afraid to say what they really want to do--eliminate private gun ownership or reduce it to such a small fraction that gun crimes would be far fewer and farther between. This would require house-to-house sweeps, mass confiscations of property, shutting down of manufacturers and dealers. But they know this would never stand, as any Democrat elected in a rural area would be driven from office. So they push these worthless piecemeal ideas that would inconvenience gun owners and sellers but do nothing towards reducing the number of guns out there or the number of shootings.
I heard the same class of thoughts from Diane Feinstein back in her early senatorial years, regarding the First amendment. Shockingly, she was not called on it by any of the fine donors or journalists in the room.
If you watch and read enough political exchanges, you will actually often hear speakers reveal their true thoughts and thought processes. It's not hard, it just requires paying attention. The media types usually let this kind of rhetoric through, since it does not trigger any alarms in their minds.
Hillary!'s shadow campaign managers can't be happy about what this means for her chances in Pennsylvania.
The Republican's in Congress just to have fun with her hypocrisy ought to propose that she and her husband be stripped of their Secret Service protection. Those bad boys not only carry guns but they carry automatic weapons! Lets dispense with her hypocrisy, her life is isn't worth more than that of the average person and considering the harm she has done her's is worth considerably less than that of the average person's. Bill's life isn't worth a dog's turd either so no need to waste money and risking innocent bystander's lives either.
"Hillary Clinton cannot let you hold a viewpoint about guns that is terrorizing the vast majority of Americans."
You can terrorize some Americans some of the time, you can terrorize the faint hearted all of the time (a boo can do that), but only the Fed under Hillary can terrorize all Americans all of the time.
The only way to enforce a Universal Backgroud check regime is to have a universal registry. And as Australia and New York have shown, a universal registry is the first step on the road to confiscation.
Here's something that could pass - give private parties access to the NICS background check system. Here's the issue - let's say I live in one of the majority of states where is is perfectly legal to make a private in-state sale of a long gun without going through an FFL (a holder of a Federal Firearms License - i.e. a licenses gun dealer). And let's say I am both good hearted and liability-averse, and so before I sell my old $150 shotgun to Joe down the street, I would like to do a background check on him - it's not required, but I don't want to get sued if Joe later goes postal. So now I have to go to an FFL and have him perform the transfer, for which he will charge me $30-50. On a $150 sale.
So why not give me the ability to call NICS directly to do the check.
We cannot let a minority of people hold a view that terroriZes th majority.
But we can make a baker suffer if she doesn't want to
Make a cake. And we can force Eich to step down even though the minority view he held was actually the majority view of the state.
We cannot let a minority of people hold a view that terroriZes th majority.
But we can make a baker suffer if she doesn't want to
Make a cake. And we can force Eich to step down even though the minority view he held was actually the majority view of the state.
"View points cannot terrorize. Even actual unsavory ones, like that the short suit is fashionable."
A viewpoint is an idea. Ideas exist in the mind. Terror is something that only occurs in the mind.
"Some things are reserved to individuals...."
You mean, I hope, our individual, inherent, inalienable rights?
Hillary don't give a flying f*&k at a rolling donut about those.
So, my view is that yes, we need to thrash this out in the political realm.
What this dim bulb doesn't seem to realize (or at least doesn't dare acknowledge)is that we HAVE trashed this out in the political realm. Her side keeps losing, over and over again. Even after horrific occurrences used by the media at large to aruge for her side, she still loses. There has been a conversation, there have been votes. Her side lost. They continue to lose. They don't want a conversation, a vote, or a "thrashing out," they just want to win. Boo damn hoo, lady; if mean ol' Wayne LaPierre and his tiny band of fanatics are really all that the other side has it's only a relfection on how crappy you are that they keep winning. "Vote for me, I've been powerless to overcome a tiny minority we all oppose!"
It's amusing when Hillary and other ILliberal gun control advocates lecture to us without even the most basic knowledge about guns. How many of the school shootings most commonly referred to involved automatic weapons? Answer: Zero. The National Firearms Act of 1934 outlawed automatic weapons possession. Now if they were really serious about eliminating automatic weapons in the U.S. they might start with the gangs that terrorize mostly low income neighborhoods in cities across the country. But doing so might anger their base. So the Kabuki theater against legal firearms ownership plays on...
This is what the left has always been about. Forever.
It's thoroughly ordinary and typical of leftists to move towards criminalization of thought.
"You can have my phased plasma rifle when you pry it from my cold, dead tentacles ."
There, fixed it for you.
Gun rights are in the constitution. Abortion rights aren't. Yet liberals want to deny people the right to things in the constitution but any restrictions on abortion are a war on women.
How many restrictions are already on guns? The libs are saying you should be able to have a school help a girl get an abortion absent her parents persmission. But saying no to THAT is a war on women.
How many abortions are there, versus how many school shootings.
Heyooyeh said...
"[S]he already has her answers and she's not going to let hold you hold any other viewpoint."
Sounds just like Ann Althouse, who once claimed to never, ever be wrong.
Althouse, you just don't like her, and you never will. Whether it's jealousy of her as a more successful woman of your generation or as someone whose opinions carry much more influence than yours, please don't try to intellectualize your bias. You look like a terrible hypocrite.
6/18/14, 9:35 AM
Heyooyeh's timeline:
1. Hillary makes a fascist statement.
2. Althouse calls out fascist statement as fascist.
3. Althouse is a jealous hypocrite because any woman that disagrees with Hillary is jealous of her success.
4. Heyooyeh fails to name a single Hillary accomplishment during her entire life in politics that didn't result from a payoff or crony favor.
5. #waronwomen and stuff.
madashell wrote:
There was a recent school shooting by some guy with a shotgun at Seattle Pacific College. She is weaving that into her messaging. Of course, the shotgun is referred to as an automatic weapon in her re-telling.
Didnt' Joe Bidden say to get shotguns instead of automatic weapons? How then is it possible that one was used in a school shooting?
"The Republican's in Congress just to have fun with her hypocrisy ought to propose that she and her husband be stripped of their Secret Service protection. Those bad boys not only carry guns but they carry automatic weapons! Lets dispense with her hypocrisy, her life is isn't worth more than that of the average person and considering the harm she has done her's is worth considerably less than that of the average person's. Bill's life isn't worth a dog's turd either so no need to waste money and risking innocent bystander's lives either."
That goes for any celebrity with bodyguards. No more guns for you and your family.
You can mock Hillary, but how many of you were named after a famous mountain climber?
"Heyooyeh said...
"[S]he already has her answers and she's not going to let hold you hold any other viewpoint."
Sounds just like Ann Althouse, who once claimed to never, ever be wrong.
Althouse, you just don't like her, and you never will. Whether it's jealousy of her as a more successful woman of your generation or as someone whose opinions carry much more influence than yours, please don't try to intellectualize your bias. You look like a terrible hypocrite."
So, you don't really have a substantial argument with which to rebut, then.
"... cause everybody to just think hard."
... 'cause to just think is hard, Madame Secretary?
Kevin,
I think there are a lot of pantie-wetters who don't even know what "semi-automatic" means.
I once had this conversation with someone over at the Isthmus Forum who claimed that the Newtown shooter used an automatic weapon. When I tried to correct him (or her) he said that the only difference between "automatic" and "semi-automatic" is semantic and they mean the same thing.
How is it possible to even have a meaningful conversation with someone so ignorant?
I blame the schools. I learned gun safety and riflery with a .22 at school, in class. Not after school. Also learned archery just in case.
Lest you think this was out in the stix somewhere, it was in Alexandria VA, literally within sight of the Washington Monument. Very progressive school, fully integrated (students and teachers) in 1949.
It's a shame our kids can't get a useful education in public schools these days.
John Henry
"... cause everybody to just think hard."
... 'cause to just think is hard, Madame Secretary?
If she really wanted to reduce school shootings and other mass killings she could simply ask her friends in the LSM (lying sack media) to STOP PUBLICIZING THE NAMES AND FACES of the wack-jobs who do the shooting! You know, if we never hear their names and faces and see their "manifestos" then they really can't inspire copycat crimes, can they?
For this same reason, the NFL does not allow people who disrupt football games to be shown on TV. In this way the incentive for others to follow suit is reduced to near zero. Also, near zero is where her chances for elective office will be if she keeps talking like this in public.
Something like 65% of violent crime in the U.S. is committed by about 7% of the population.
If the goal was really to reduce gun violence they'd advocate banning firearms use by black men, since most gun murders are committed by them against them.
They cannot do that in part because that would conflict with another, more important statist goal, to have black men kill each other and keep that population low and under control.
Let her try to stop me.
"And I was disappointed that the Congress did not pass universal background checks after the horrors of the shootings at Sandy Hook and now we've had more... in the time since."
I'd have a lot more sympathy for her protestations if any of those shootings would have been stopped by those background checks.
As far as I know, none of them would have even been trivially inconvenienced.
And I don't take policy prescriptions based on "horrors" seriously when they're just the same old laundry list that has nothing to do with the thing they claim to be against.
You know what would be a huge time saver?
If Hillary would just provide us with a list of viewpoints we can allow people to hold.
"her point was only that in a democracy, the majority should win"
You mean, like with Same Sex Marriage, Abortion, and the DOMA?
How about with Flag Burning, the Stolen Honor Act, ....
Clinton's idea of governance is to give her prejudices the force of law. In this she exactly resembles every other politician.
jr565:
They grew up hearing the myth of the "stork's delivery". Most rationalize abortion/murder because they believe life is a miracle of spontaneous conception. The more "logical" rationalize it as a defense to prevent an act of involuntary exploitation (i.e. child's evolution from conception to birth). It is a great comfort for millions of women, girls, men, and boys that they are not committing premeditated murder of a wholly innocent human life. The government, experts, and advocates told them so, repeatedly.
That said, don't harsh their mellow. The ten thousand or so people murdered by mostly government agents, criminals, or themselves are more important than the million people murdered every year for money, sex, convenience, and to reduce the problem set (i.e. population control).
Anyway, I understand why they want abortion/murder; but, considering the extraordinary mental gymnastics required to rationalize it, they should be capable of recognizing better choices. Their irrational fear of guns, unsupported by the statistics, unsupported by actual events, leads me to believe they will never appreciate their dissonance.
What is it with these demanding First Ladies?
"Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual."
Ironically, democracy is at odds with Democrat politics. Majority exploitation is their bread and butter.
74 is just 47 in reverse.
A viewpoint is an idea. Ideas exist in the mind. Terror is something that only occurs in the mind.
So it stands to reason that you can only be terrorized by your own viewpoint, as that is the only one in your own mind. Other people's viewpoints are safely contained in their own skulls.
"And I was disappointed that the Congress did not pass universal background checks after the horrors of the shootings at Sandy Hook and now we've had more... in the time since."
Sandy Hook?
!. Lanza had attempted to buy a firearm at least once - and did not pass the "non-mandatory universal" check. Oh my.
2. He committed murder, indeed matricide, BEFORE having a firearm, in order to steal firearms (no, Wikipedia, he did NOT "shoot" his mother). Multiple offenses far more serious than teaching your 11-year-old firearm safety.
I have not heard a single proposed bit of legislation that would have stopped him, have you? Even a mandatory psych eval (which after all, he had) cannot be relied upon to spot a real vs potential vs non- threat. Too, how about stopping him at least just after the first murder? Not so easy, is it?
More, if you look around. I don't own, or even much want to own, a firearm, but the use of the blood of children to make an irrelevant political argument is pretty low. Nor do I mind if my neighbors (well, most of them, heh) have weaponry.
"Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual."
Yeah, Meade and I were reminded of that too.
John A:
The possession and use of firearms by anyone other than the purchaser are now illegal and subject to deeper scrutiny.
Yeah, that would have stopped Lanza, and other people who ignore proscriptive laws and regulations.
It's also telling that certain people are entrusted with a right to self-defense, but the majority should be denied, because the trust is not mutual. There is a presumption of guilt until proven innocent which has tarnished many movements, including those calling to disarm law-abiding Americans.
It's similar to the logic which rationalizes expanded federal security, which targets Americans personally and economically, while permitting around one million aliens to illegally enter this nation annually. As well as turning a blind eye to trillion dollar deficits, and other labor and currency devaluing measures.
By this logic, we cannot let Muslims who believe in Sharia hold that viewpoint.
Good luck with this approach.
People like Mrs. Clinton and Pres. Obama are constantly frustrated that they - who are smarter than us, more moral than us and just flat know better than us - are blocked by regressives and a Constitution that is obviously not suited for 21st Century America from organizing and running our lives the way that they know best for us.
"Hillary has a bit of a fascist streak."
That's like saying that Bill has a bit of a problem keeping his cock in his pants.
You know, if Hillary had dumped her rapist of a husband I'd have a lot more respect for her.
Grandiose? You ain't kidding. She's been like that for a LONG time.
From "Saint Hillary", NY Times, May 23, 1993 http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/23/magazine/saint-hillary.html?pagewanted=all
Since she discovered, at the age of 14, that for people less fortunate than herself the world could be very cruel, Hillary Rodham Clinton has harbored an ambition so large that it can scarcely be grasped.
She would like to make things right.
She is 45 now and she knows that the earnest idealisms of a child of the 1960's may strike some people as naive or trite or grandiose. But she holds to them without any apparent sense of irony or inadequacy. ... She would like to make the world a better place -- as she defines better.
...
When it is suggested that she sounds as though she's trying to come up with a sort of unified-field theory of life, she says, excitedly, "That's right, that's exactly right!"
...
"Let us be willing," she urged in conclusion, "to remold society by redefining what it means to be a human being in the 20th century, moving into a new millennium."
Read the whole thing.
Hillary!'s philosophy in a nutshell: "It takes an overbearing nanny state (with me as Nanny in Chief)."
Another 'liberal' post by 'liberal' Ann Althouse. ;)
holdfast,
"So why not give me the ability to call NICS directly to do the check. "
It's a privacy issue, for one thing. And FFL who accesses the system is a known entity, regulated and monitored by the ATF, and has already looked at your picture ID and decided it's likely enough to be valid, and is only running the check because they think they're really about to make an actual sale.
None of this would apply to Joe Random accessing the NICS over the web...
Read a novel by Bill Quick (Daily Pundit) a couple of months ago-- not Stendhal or Dickens or Mann but a decent story-- and two of the characters are personae lifted from Mr and Mrs Clinton. Unfortunately, whenever I now read about yet another of the real Mrs Clinton's gaffes I can't help but think of the Quickian version.
I wonder what Hilary's definition of 'vast majority' is.
After all, Bill had this thing about what the word 'is' is and what sex was.
I mean she could use that 'viewpoint' thing to ban just about any thought she felt was 'terrorizing' her 'vast majority'.
Now Ann, if you vote for Hillary, like you voted for Obama, then YOU will need to check in to a sanatorium.
Cause Hillary is beginning to make Obama sound sane.
Scott Walker saying it isn't the governor's job to change the Constitution wasn't a waffle --- it was a core statement of principle.
I note that because THIS is the polar opposite of that.
Althouse, you just don't like her, and you never will. Whether it's jealousy of her as a more successful woman of your generation or as someone whose opinions carry much more influence than yours, please don't try to intellectualize your bias. You look like a terrible hypocrite.
True, the prof didn't ride her husband's coattails to power and then fail to a damned thing for 30 yrs plus...
You can all mock Hillary, but how many of YOU have dodged sniper fire like she did in Bosnia?
Technically, hasn't about 99% of the world dodged sniper fire the way she did?
A viewpoint is an idea. Ideas exist in the mind. Terror is something that only occurs in the mind.
Not in the mind of somebody with the viewpoint.
It's like saying FDR supported the Holocaust because anti-Semitism was an ideology while he was in the White House.
"Let us be willing," she urged in conclusion, "to remold society by..."
I've seen this film before; I know how it ends: by killing millions of kulaks and wreckers and whoever else stands in the way of our utopia.
Someone needs to look at the Clinton's investment portfolio and seem if they are invested in gun related stocks. She keeps talking like this and the guns and ammo will fly off the shelves again the hilbots will wonder about the paranoia of the right for possibly thinking she supports taking their guns.
democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what to have for lunch. That is Hillary's democracy.
I don't think we should let Hillary terrorize the vast majority of the country with her viewpoint, myself.
The context of Shrillary's comments was guns/shootings, but her threats against anyone who disagrees with her or her Agenda ("terrorizers") places disagreeing U.S. citizens in the same (a)legal category as Guantanamo detainees.
Note the enthusiastic applause and agreement with her anti-American hate-speech.
More tilling of the Poisoned Field that America has become. Hillary and friends are sculpting the "necessary" psychological future, which then excuses the Hard Measures that the little snowflake so desperately desires.
Hey here's a question what's that handgun with a cylinder called?
A revolver.
Okay what's that handgun with a magazine well called?
An Automatic.
Automatic weapons have, in fact, been used in school shootings. And in some of the 74 school shootings since Sandy Hook. But also hundreds of times in NDs by unsafe right-wing wackos who have no idea about weapon retention.
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