"It was a community, she says, where she felt supported, valued and welcomed. And where, because local colleges refused to hire black professors, her education in segregated schools was never substandard. 'Some of our teachers were Ph.D.s, or Ph.D. candidates,' [Carmen] Fields recalls. 'We had the best of the best, the talented 10th, if you will, and they expected the best of us.' Segregation should not get in the way of excelling, Fields and her peers were told. They had to be ready to inherit the integrated world their elders were fighting for, and the wider opportunities that would surely accompany it."
NPR marks the 60th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education with a piece titled "Nostalgia For What's Been Lost Since 'Brown V. Board.'"
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९२ टिप्पण्या:
And when women could be nurses, but not doctors, legal secretaries, but not lawyers, and teachers, but not professors, we had a lot of really terrific nurses, legal secretaries, and teachers.
When we give people more occupational opportunities, we lose the benefits that some get from forcing overqualified people into jobs they might not truly aspire to.
To show how far we have come since Brown, over at SLate, Jamelle Bouie argues (in a piece about why Millenials don't see racism as enough of a problem for his taste:
"The problem is that racism isn’t reducible to “different treatment.” Since if it is, measures to ameliorate racial inequality—like the Voting Rights Act—would be as “racist” as the policies that necessitated them. No, racism is better understood as white supremacy—anything that furthers a broad hierarchy of racist inequity, where whites possess the greatest share of power, respect, and resources, and blacks the least."
Rather than comment on it, I'll just let that speak for itself.
The Negro Leagues in baseball faded very quickly once Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby and others entered the Major Leagues. They were quite successful and then....poof....gone fairly soon.
I continue to be amazed at the number of Black people I know who have multiple postgraduate degrees. I wish I had that kind of drive and ambition.
@Ron: The idea may be making a comeback. Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league.
NPR channelling its inner Phil Robertson and Cliven Bundy.
That was when acting white wasn't noticed.
There were black families.
There is a lot to say for black colleges but the others are well departed.
The nurse-doctor thing was an artifact of the concern about a doctor shortage in the 50s. What happened was a great increase in medical school slots by the Johnson administration that reduced the concern. Of course, the shortage now is worse but the percentage of medical students that are female is 60%.
Oh, and yes they work less hours, as the admissions committees in the 50s and 60s expected.
I'm a white guy who attended a diverse and integrated grammar school on Chicago's South Side until Brown v Board. Afterward, my parents moved us to the suburbs, where the schools had no Jews, no Blacks, no Asians and few Catholics.
Oh dear, another Crack thread.
Similarly, Sergei Prokofiev and other composers did a lot of their best work under the USSR's heavy hand, which required them to make music with broader appeal than the experimental stuff they wanted to make.
A lot has been lost. Three generations miseducated and counting.
Not lost is the liberal confidence that just one more big idea big dollar big government big union solution will turn the tide.
The affluent elites assure their children great education by choosing where to have them schooled. Choice. It's a simple word, but a hard concept. Choice requires accountability, Accountability's main component is competition.
Something much, much worse has been lost since Brown v. Board, the Black Family.
Black success quickly followed the lost family over the cliff.
Trey
There is no situation in the world so bad that the United States Congress can't step in to help and make it still worse - sometimes a lot worse.
OK, let us stipulate the prevalence of white "supremacy" as articulated in the quote at 9:16. The solutions proposed or hinted at, since solutions are rarely proposed, are to take privilege away from whites rather than add privilege to blacks the same fallacy of a zero sum game holds in economics. What both fallacies share is that the lack is a result of the actions of others against the actions that could be taken to equalize.
In the late 1960s a clear fork in the equality road appeared. One was, to simplify, the MLK path and the other the Malcolm X path. The former admitted shortcomings that had to be overcome through hard work; the latter said no shortcomings existed and so no hard work was required. Predictably many chose the wrong fork.
But...liberals HELPED the blacks!
So 50-60 years of "helping" has brought this on.
That is not all about "the Blacks."
All these little neighborhood schools doing their own thing was intolerable to the left, and the integration mandate gave them cover to build huge central schools and bus the pupils in from all over. But it is not so much about the mix of students as about central administration and control of everything, never mind what color skin the pupils have.
OK, let us stipulate the prevalence of white "supremacy" as articulated in the quote at 9:16. The solutions proposed or hinted at, since solutions are rarely proposed, are to take privilege away from whites rather than add privilege to blacks the same fallacy of a zero sum game holds in economics. What both fallacies share is that the lack is a result of the actions of others against the actions that could be taken to equalize.
In the late 1960s a clear fork in the equality road appeared. One was, to simplify, the MLK path and the other the Malcolm X path. The former admitted shortcomings that had to be overcome through hard work; the latter said no shortcomings existed and so no hard work was required. Predictably many chose the wrong fork.
Bob Ellison,
Actually, Prokofiev moved back from France to the USSR, and seemed to relish the "big fish in a small pond" deal, if anything. He apparently did genuinely like to write lyrical music, and if he spent more time than he (strictly speaking) wanted to on great, epic Soviet operas in his later years, that's the way the cookie crumbles, or rather the way the omelet is made.
Of course, he did have the misfortune of dying on the same day as Stalin, which means that notice of his death was delayed a week ...
In the 50's and 60's education for black children was rigorous and generally excellent Black parents were very strict. Welfare destroyed the black family. Glorification of gangs and crime destroyed black children's aspiration. Plus the idea that doing well in school was being white destroyed black children achievement
In the 50's and 60's education for black children was rigorous and generally excellent Black parents were very strict. Welfare destroyed the black family. Glorification of gangs and crime destroyed black children's aspiration. Plus the idea that doing well in school was being white destroyed black children achievement
Nostalgic for the black family, which Liberal government policies have destroyed.
The old tight knit immigrant communities proved to be an effective economic launching pad for their members. A dollar that entered a Polish neighborhood for example, stayed in the neighborhood. It built wealth as it was spent and respent among the neighborhood professionals, restaurants, and shops.
A dollar that enters an urban neighborhood today, leaves almost as soon as it arrived. It builds no wealth. The inhabitants are no more than transfer agents. They have the week's groceries, or one more possession, but are no better off in the long term.
It's stupendously nonintuitive, but the fact is you can't solve poverty by giving people money.
I remember my mother talking about high school de-segregation in our town.
There were 4 high schools in town, one of them predominantly black. They closed the black high school and divided those kids up among the other 3 high schools.
My mother said it was so sad because the black high school and been the center and heart of their community, and she felt the community never really recovered from the loss.
Maybe a greater good was served, but maybe not.
The affluent elites assure their children great education by choosing where to have them schooled. Choice. It's a simple word, but a hard concept. Choice requires accountability, Accountability's main component is competition
Milwaukee has the longest running school choice program in the country. What do we have to show for it? Schools that perform more poorly than public schools, hundreds of millions of additional taxes, and one of the most segregated cities in America. But, segregation is probably a net bonus for the politicians and scam artists that shove voucher schools down the throat of the public.
The Negro Leagues in baseball faded very quickly once Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby and others entered the Major Leagues. They were quite successful and then....poof....gone fairly soon.
Bingo!
The idea may be making a comeback. Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league.
Self-segregation … Intriguing idea but I don't believe it would work. What might work is if a new league were created by the players with an open door policy, welcoming any player regardless of race.
It's stupendously nonintuitive, but the fact is you can't solve poverty by giving people money.
Another Bingo! A set of Betty Crocker cookbooks and a brand new electric Hamilton Beach countertop mixer for the lucky winner!
"A dollar that enters an urban neighborhood today, leaves almost as soon as it arrived."
Sometimes it's easy to guess neighborhood demographics:
1. Nice homes, shitty cars.
2. Shitty homes, nice cars.
" The idea may be making a comeback. Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league."
Ban that guy from basketball for making divicive and racist remarks.
Well, they'll always have Detroit.
"While there IS open access to public facilities, everything from bathrooms to libraries, it doesn't mean discrimination has ended."
Republicans - learned racial scholars that they are - would beg to differ. And do so, daily. It's all our own fault.
So now we're "celebrating" what? 1954 is it? That would be about 350 years, or so, into most black's "American Dream" of - not happiness and success like "normal" people - but seemingly off-hand lectures about staying alive as Jim Crow was dismantled.
"Now let me tell you about the Negro,.."
Isn't it funny how blacks sticking together, today, causes conservatives to blow a fuse? Because 1954 is ancient history and, I guess, all those people are dead so their kids are pure or something. There can't be a reason for such behavior, beyond "black racism" - which, since waaay back in 1954, has just grown and grown. Whew! Hateful people. What?
1954. I haven't been born yet, but then, it'll still be a year before Rosa Parks gets on that bus and MLK's "Letter From A Birmingham Jail" is still almost a decade away.
But, as my white friends point out, those were good times as some see it.
I don't see it. There's the usual list of "achievement" bullshit while whites were, and are, allowed to just live their lives, neither restrained by another or even barely comprehending such a notion exists. You wanna party in Morrocco? Go ahead - we have to "give back" for some insane reason conservatives can't comprehend and laugh at - because 1954. Ancient history. I can now sit down in my chair in class - which has spit in it - but don't worry:
Bathroom privileges are on the way!
I have heard conservatives speak of black privilege, but that's the first time I've took the phrase seriously. 1954.
Hm,...
9:16: "No, racism is better understood as white supremacy—anything that furthers a broad hierarchy of racist inequity, where whites possess the greatest share of power, respect, and resources, and blacks the least."
White supremacy: Racist!
9:25: "Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league..." because in the basketball world blacks possess the greatest share of power, respect, and resources, and whites the least.
Black supremacy: Not racist!
Oh, the irony.
"And when women could be nurses, but not doctors, legal secretaries, but not lawyers, and teachers, but not professors"
Don't confuse cultural segregation with the invention of practical working birth control.
"@Ron: The idea may be making a comeback. Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league."
An Onion headline if ever I saw one.
Jimi Hendrix explored places with the his "Band Of Gypsys" that he couldn't experience otherwise. It didn't last, though.
Destruction of the black family aside, all public schools not in the wealthiest districts now get to enjoy the same benefits of mediocrity and worse. Loss of local control means in most places there's little parent can do to improve quality, and little choice in applying the funs expended on their children's education in an effective way. New teaching graduates are now at the bottom of their undergraduate classes, and they *average* an IQ of 108, barely above average. Which means half of them are below that. While I bow to the sacred cow of the ideal teacher, that is not what lower class and poor children get now. Good teachers work hard to transfer to better schools, leaving the remnants to disadvantaged kids.
"Another Bingo! A set of Betty Crocker cookbooks and a brand new electric Hamilton Beach countertop mixer for the lucky winner!"
Thanks grackle! Along with the Samsung Galaxy that paco wove awarded me a while back, I'm doing quite well in the Althouse sweepstakes.
" Scott said...
@Ron: The idea may be making a comeback. Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league."
Or the White 10% or so could go off and found their own league.
Perhaps the 'destruction of the black neighborhood' is less about 'fewer opportunities' and more about 'more geographic options.'
So, when segregation ruled, the black middle class was concentrated into enclaves where they lived cheek by jowl with the black upper class and the black lower class. Once they had freedom of movement, everyone who could move scattered. Blacks are actually a pretty small % of the US population. So when they scatter through the middle and upper class areas, they seem to disappear.
Meanwhile, the people who were left behind in the black enclaves were the ones without the human capital to mix in with the rest of society.
It's sort of like the 'Appalachia' problem. You meet a lot of ex-appalachian Americans (if you can get them to admit it) scattered through the middle and upper classes. Meanwhile, Appalachia itself looks poor and hopeless... because the people with get up and go all got up and went.
Shake, Rattle, and Roll (1954)
Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league.
Unless he just means all-Black players, it is doomed to failure, due to conflating the imagined skills it takes to play basketball with the skills it takes to set up and run a league.
Next up on NPR:
-2 p.m. Hear the hot new Palestinian transgender singing sensation 'Fatima' discuss bringing justice, peace, and women's rights to Gaza.
-3 p.m.-Terri Gross has a harrowing interview with Maria Menchu-Navarro's escape from her life in Mexico's Narco-Gangs to her life as Princeton activist adjunct:
"This Brown Bird Sings In A Privileged Cage. I Don't Need Your Stinking Jane Eyre."
-4 p.m-We talk to Popular Linguist and Professor Robert J Stevenson as he discusses the inevitable connection between 60's activism and the packs of suburban white males roaming Brooklyn known as 'hipsters.'
Vocal fry analysis and some really bad indie music outros included
-4:30 pm. Bugs!
Trish Menko-Stevens visits with 'Mama Ombwato,' Congo's Bug Queen who feeds displaced children a steady diet of bugs during a time of war and famine.
'The protein gained from Congo's bug biomass could feed the world many times over.'
This is before the Left destroyed the black family unit and sent them back to the plantation.
And there is your problem, right there in a nutshell
That was cruel. Crack is like Reek on Game of Thrones. He'll never leave the plantation. In fact, if you try to free him he will fight you every step of the way. Then run back to his cage.
The military is largely integrated at this point, as are the communities and the schools within the communities that rely upon and sustain the military. I went to junior high and high school nearly fifty years ago in a school district in a navy town that was then about 95% white. It now reflects roughly the overall distribution by race within the military as a whole. The school I attended has been ranked in the past decade as among the ten best public schools in the nation in large measure because it has achieved racial integration.
The Crack Emcee said...
Isn't it funny how blacks sticking together, today, causes conservatives to blow a fuse?
It's not your 'sticking together' that is the issue. That 'sticking together' is probably the best thing you have going for you.
The issue is: what exactly is it that you are all 'sticking together' , about?
If it's a good thing, then - good. If not a good thing, then - tragic.
When it was a matter of adding your own spice and soul to already existing and proven things created by other cultures (what this thread is about), it was a net win-win.
But now you are all 'sticking together' with a clearly failed and destructive culture that Progressives unwisely, and perhaps knowingly, encouraged you to develop on your own - rejecting, for example, everything that was anything like 'acting White'.
That is what accounts for most of your troubles today, though you will not, of course, ever admit that.
Just consider this. Other cultures don't even have a word for what you all mean by the pejorative term 'uncle tom'.
And there is your problem, right there in a nutshell.
Deirdre M
Yes. And the same is true for immigrants. Indians,Africans, Latin and Central Americans,Mexicans; those who take the risk to move here seem to do OK and adapt to the economic culture readily.
If you grow up in an environment where you are reminded daily that you arent going to have a chance of success you are not going to have much of a chance of success.
Or the White 10% or so could go off and found their own league.
Never gonna happen, for the same reason there is no Miss White America beauty pagent. Blacks and minorities are allowed to create organizations based on race, but Whites aren't.
" But it is not so much about the mix of students as about central administration and control of everything, never mind what color skin the pupils have."
The little Illinois town where my family is from is called Odell. It has a few hundred residents. It once had its own high school in the 60s. It may have even been a Catholic high school. At that time it had already had three National Merit Scholars, very unusual for a small farming community.
Soon the school was closed and all the kids had to go to a big "union high school" miles away. That was also the end of the National Merit Scholars.
The old radio show, "Amos and Andy" is a real tribute to life in an all black community.
Just kidding.
Things a far better now that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the "voices" of the African-American community.
And let's not forget, we're living in a "post racial age" since "the people" elected Obama president.
Eric Holder still wants to have a "conversation" about other things, cocerning racial matters, that can make everything even more superdupper.
Wow! What an age to be alive in!
We have a subdivision in our town called Meacham Park. Originally, back when this berg wasn't a part of St Louis Metro and a city in it's own right, Meacham Park was the housing area the wealthier residents set up for their servants/workers/etc.
It has been vast majority black since then and is today. I had a sister-in-law move in there a few years back and I got to know some of her neighbors, mostly folks in their 70's or so. They all echo exactly what she's talking about. In fact, to go one better, these men and women could point to where their neighborhood's own stores, butchers, tailors, etc, were, right there in the local vicinity.
Their take on it, to a person, was that once segregation was forced, those businesses went under because their own neighbors had the impression that white-owned businesses were simply better. Better clothes, better meat, better gas, etc, and so the customer base for their own neighborhood's black owned and operated businesses dried up and died.
To point to an interesting parallel:
Thaddeus Russell, in his "Renegade History", notes the testimony of several former slaves, interviewed by the Federal Writers Project in the 1930s, who felt that life had been much easier for them under slavery than it was after emancipation. This might just be old people waxing nostalgic about the days of their youth, or it might point to something more significant. Both Southern slaveholders and Marxist scholars have argued that whatever the evils attached to slavery (and they were many) capitalism and commodified labor were worse.
I wish to thank Althouse for the very good reference.
I noticed in the comments after the article that some of the NPR readers attributed Carmen Fields' observations to the nostalgia of an old person without merit. That reaction is understandable in people who have never lived in another culture.
People are by nature tribal. One of the things which shocked me when I returned from Africa is how isolated people are in our society. Tribalism is the default human organization for a reason, that is how humans evolved until the last 15,000 years or so ago. Tribalism fulfills deep human needs for connectivity and community.
One can recognize how tribalism fulfils basic human needs without wishing to restore it. The downside of tribalism are just too immense as expressed in the genocides in Rwanda or Germany. Those genocides are continuing in Africa to this day. Racism is just another form of tribalism.
The question is whether it is possible to recreate the tribal community voluntarily and obtain the benefits of community without setting up dynamics which lead to violent conflict? Forming exclusive organizations based on race or ethnicity is dangerous whether they are formed by white, black, brown or yellow people. A good compromise seems to be church communities which can mimic the tribal community without racial segregation but even here the resurgence of Islam makes conflict inevitable.
Agree with @Lucien. It's like when people romanticize the days of super smart secretaries, or when the only jobs open for females were teacher, nurse, and secretary - and you had to quit everything when/if you got married.
@Dale- This is most likely true. Ante-bellum slaves were expensive and profitable investment capital. Morality aside, it would be very bad business to neglect or ruin that capital.
" The idea may be making a comeback. Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league."
1) We already have one. It's called the NBA. The white guys are just props.
2) Some former general manager in the NBA (I forgot who), when asked why he didn't draft Larry Bird responded: "I already have my one white guy".
Illuniati
I appreciate your posts and observations on Africa. Your experience with the wholesale slaughter of Tutsi populations had to have been horrible. We watched and pretended not to see until it was way too late. The government professed to know less than a curious citizen with internet access. It was one of the most profound failings of our government, a moral lapse much more terrible thsn any.
"Just consider this. Other cultures don't even have a word for what you all mean by the pejorative term 'uncle tom'."
This is not true. You see, my wife and children are partly Native Americans.
We live in a community of Native Americans. There are more Native Americans in my neighborhood than any other race, mostly because we live on the border of the reservation. They call my wife and kids "Banana" because they are white on the inside.
I assume Banana is like Uncle Tom. My wife and kids are learning not to act white though. Soon my kids will be old enough to apply for college and they will mark Native American on their applications. Hopefully then they will know they aren't acting white anymore.
Did you know that the federal government makes a point to hire Native Americans specifically? They even counted in a part of DHS they only had 1 Native American. Since they discovered that they have sent out groups to educate on the reservations how wonderful it would be if they applied for a government job. They call these recruiting trips.
I can't wait until my children are old enough to get a job.
No more white privilege for them! It's time they embraced their Native American ancestry.
And these days a huge proportion of the African-American population cannot speak standard English, even when you AKS them.
Some progress.
Many exceptions, but the cultural impetus has been on a downward trajectory since LBJ developed is "War on poverty" which, he said, "Will keep those niggers voting Democrat for two hundred years."
Suckers.
I’m always intrigued by what the Crack MC has to write. He’s interesting as an example of an obscure openness. Obscure because it’s a challenge to parse what he writes. I mean, a lot of is appears to be stream of consciousness. For example, what does this mean?
"While there IS open access to public facilities, everything from bathrooms to libraries, it doesn't mean discrimination has ended."
Republicans - learned racial scholars that they are - would beg to differ. And do so, daily. It's all our own fault. “
Who is the “our own” in “all our own fault?” I assume he means people who share his skin color. And what are they being blamed for that’s their fault? Crack’s not very specific. But before we explore that, can we have Crack and the author of the article admit, even if they do so grudgingly, that since 1953 there have been more changes than simply opening bathrooms and libraries to black people. You see, saying that’s a lie. It’s a lie with implications that say that white people are everlastingly responsible for black people. Which is another way of saying that black people are forever … willing … less than fully responsible adults. Puppy dogs and very young children are some of the other creatures that are never at fault.
Crack says: “So now we're "celebrating" what? 1954 is it? “
Oh my yes. We’ve come a long way baby. We’re now celebrating women’s lib as the first porn starlet matriculates at Duke. The nation waited in breathless anticipation to see who would draft the first openly homosexual black player into the NFL. And a randy old man was fined several million dollars and banned for life from basketball for telling his half-black-half- Mexican hooker not to bring the black guys she’s sleeping with to basketball games. We’re not in 1954 any more Toto.
Crack says: “Isn't it funny how blacks sticking together, today, causes conservatives to blow a fuse?”
Crack my friend, and you are my friend, I’m a conservative and I really don’t give a shit (pardon my French) who you stick with. I have noticed that people of similar backgrounds and interests seem to enjoy each other’s company. The people that seems to bother most – or those who want to have the government parcel you out like scarce goods – are Liberals.
You seem to have some kind of hang-up on 1954. You were not born yet and I was a pre-teen immigrant. There were good things and bad things about 1954. But that was a time when people of good will who cared about racial issues were hoping for a color-blind future. Today we have the quintessential tight-assed Liberal communications medium – NPR – wax nostalgic about a segregated past, asking the same question as Cliven Bundy but getting away with it because of their skin color.
Crack, who wants to party in Morocco? Me, I’d like Christian schoolgirls to be able to study in Nigeria. Perhaps Goodluck Johnathan can wave his magic fedora, give the girls back their virginity and freedom and show the benighted white privileged population of America how to achieve racial harmony.
Check your privilege.
Bart Hall (Kansas, USA),
"And these days a huge proportion of the African-American population cannot speak standard English, even when you AKS them."
And white men still can't jump or dance:
THEY'RE A FAILURE!!!!
----Milwaukee has the longest running school choice program in the country. What do we have to show for it? Schools that perform more poorly than public schools, hundreds of millions of additional taxes, and one of the most segregated cities in America. But, segregation is probably a net bonus for the politicians and scam artists that shove voucher schools down the throat of the public.---
You simply couldn't possibly condense more falsehoods into these brief sentences!!! Truly mendacious Garage far exceeding your normal standards.
*****The actual research on school choice in Milwaukee argues against such a move. At the request of the State of Wisconsin, we led a five-year study of school choice in Milwaukee that ended last February. We found that school choice in Milwaukee has had a modest but clearly positive effect on student outcomes.
from the liberal MJS
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/milwaukee-school-choice-beats-the-alternative-p68doeu-187369091.html
Higher taxes?
*******In fact, a longitudinal study of the Milwaukee program found that it increased academic performance, graduation rates, and college enrollment (and did so at about half the cost per pupil):
http://thedailyhatch.org/2014/02/28/the-milwaukee-school-choice-program-increased-academic-performance-graduation-rates-and-college-enrollment-and-was-half-the-cost-per-pupil/
Shoved down throats???
*****The Milwaukee school choice program has grown steadily since its inception in 1990, when only 300 students and 7 non-sectarian private schools participated. The enrollment cap was raised several times over the past two decades before being completely abolished by lawmakers in 2011.
The choice program has proven to be a big hit with Milwaukee families. According to the recent figures, more than one-in-five of the city’s students are attending one of the 112 participating private schools.
Oh, and segregation in Milwaukee, not due to school choice is it? Too bad Milwaukee's so segregated… but what can you expect from a city which is inhabited and governed by elitist liberals?
In 1951, black students in Farmville, Virginia—led by 16-year-old Barbara Johns—staged a strike to protest conditions at Robert Russa Moton High School. The subsequent lawsuit later became one of five cases folded into Brown v. Board of Education, the landmark desegregation decision by the U.S. Supreme Court that made “separate but equal” unlawful. Moton was the only one of the five cases that began with a student-led challenge.
But the Moton students’ struggles didn’t end with the May 17, 1954, Supreme Court ruling, now marking its 60th anniversary. Rather than comply with the court, Virginia lawmakers launched a campaign known as “Massive Resistance,” and in the fall of 1958, they closed schools in three major districts for a semester to avoid having to integrate them. Prince Edward County—home to Farmville—shuttered all of its public schools in 1959, and they remained closed for five years. During that time, white students attended private academies paid for by their own families and sympathetic segregationists. But black students were left largely to fend for themselves, cobbling together educations in church basements and home-school settings.
In 1963, a coalition of educators and community leaders created the Prince Edward Free School Association, and used private funds and the support of President Kennedy’s administration to open four campuses serving about 1,500 black students. The 1964 Supreme Court ruling in Griffin vs. School Board of Prince Edward County forced the district’s schools to finally reopen.
-- The Atlantic
It's so nice to be a citizen of a country that hates me,...
The school was too small. It had been built for 180 students and they had more than 450. Classes were held in farm buildings and chicken houses— the same structures you would put an animal in. Students had to hold umbrellas when it rained because the roof leaked so badly. There would be one pot-bellied stove, and in one part of the room you’d be burning up and in another you’d be wearing your winter coat and shivering because the heat didn’t reach that far. Students from those years talked about how often they missed school because they were sick.
Farmville High School, for the white students, was only a couple of blocks away so there was something to compare to. Moton had no cafeteria, no gym, no science lab, no lockers, no teachers’ break room, no infirmary. Right up the street they could see all the things they were being deprived of.
-- The Atlantic
Michael said...
"Illuniati
I appreciate your posts and observations on Africa. Your experience with the wholesale slaughter of Tutsi populations had to have been horrible. We watched and pretended not to see until it was way too late."
Thanks Michael, however, I don't blame the USA at all for Rwanda. There are limits to US power especially in an area of the World which most Americans don't understand. Even though I lived in Africa I still don't understand the dynamics of African society completely since these hatreds have been simmering for generations. I suspect that what happened in Rwanda has been going on for thousands of years and is one of the forces of evolution which has shaped us into our present human form. If one believes the out of Africa origin of modern humans, everyone of us has a Hutu and a Tutsi embedded in our genes struggling to break free.
The more recent iteration of genocide in Rwanda in 1994 is not an isolated event, it is the second wave of mass slaughter by a second generation of haters. The first wave of the genocide in Rwanda began about 1961 about the time of independence from Belgium. The only people who can cure tribal hatreds are the tribes themselves. No one knows if reconciliation is even possible but the present leaders are trying.
Reconciliation means that people who had relatives hacked to death by one generation will be willing to set those grievances aside and recognize that the children are not guilty for the actions of their parents. That seems like a simple concept but unfortunately humans are not programmed that way. Humans are mortal but tribes are immortal so that people who identify themselves with a tribe automatically assume the hatreds of previous generations as part of the price of tribal identification.
The day that the left discovered racial warfare as a driving force in history and added it to class warfare in their arsenal to advance their power is the day that the great American melting pot congealed. True liberals were making significant progress in breaking down the walls of hatred and bringing true reconciliation between black and white people in America. The left can not allow that reconciliation to happen since they would lose a major source of their power. I'm not certain that the left really understand the strength of the passions they are doing their best to unleash.
If we’d had leadership who said, “We’re going to do this and make it as easy as possible,” instead of fighting every step of the way, we might have seen a much different outcome. Instead, we had white families who felt compelled to leave the public system for private schools, because that’s what the Southern leadership encouraged them to do. The racial tension was nurtured.
-- The Atlantic
Don't you love conservative white people?
They still do it this way,...
Looking at Lucien's definition of racism, I can see why people on the right are having a problem debating people on the left.
"No, racism is better understood as [Group 1] supremacy—anything that furthers a broad hierarchy of [...] inequity, where [Group 1] possess the greatest share of power, respect, and resources, and [Group 2] the least."
That's not racism, that's segregation of the oppressed. One is a feeling of animus towards people simply because of their race, the other is a socio-economic order caused by oppression. You can replace Group 1 and Group 2 with other pairs: Men/Women, Brahmins/Pariah, Hutu/Tutsi.
Crack Emcee wrote:
1954. I haven't been born yet, but then, it'll still be a year before Rosa Parks gets on that bus and MLK's "Letter From A Birmingham Jail" is still almost a decade away.
But, as my white friends point out, those were good times as some see it.
you're just ranting. We're living in a world where we did away with segregation. And that's not good enough for you. What MORE do you want from Amerikkka?
YOU seem to be the one saying that blacks have no interest integrating with their oppressor, so then what is the right position we as white folks are supposed to hold towards blacks. If we can't win with you regardless, the. Why are we even trying.
You want to go back to segregation, be my guest.
Progressives run the public school system. They want poor people to go to shitty schools, get poor educations, and stay poor. Progressives passed Jim Crow. It was the democrat party that supported slavery, supported Jim Crow, and now supports socioeconomic stagnation in the school system.
I sincerely want every person to have the opportunity to get a real education and have a fair shot. But all Crack sees are the poor black kids so it must be white people behind this.
What makes me angry is that he blames me for the problems in the black community caused by progressive policies I oppose. I oppose shitty public education for poor people and the destruction of the black/poor families. Whenever you really want to change things for the better I want to help. Just let me know when I am no longer your excuse and you stop projecting hate upon me and my motives.
Crack said: "It's so nice to be a citizen of a country that hates me,..."
You want love Crack? Come to my full gospel Christian church and you will be showered with love.
One last word on the on the predominately "Black Community", as Carl Van Vechten, a writer, photographer and a patron of the 1920's Harlem Renaissance saw it in his controversial novel "Nigger Heaven" (1926).
The story is a "colorful" panoply of life in Harlem, that section of Manhattan being portrayed as a "great black walled city". In it we find an interesting array of characters, everyday folk along with intellectuals and activists who provide the backdrop for two people, a librarian and a writer, in love but denied it's fulfillment because of racism.
It's a novel, of course, but fiction sometimes can convey the feel of a time and place better than "the facts".
It was a bestseller in its' time and had Black supporters and critics.
I've read "Harlemania" came into vogue, partly due to Van Vechten book, among whites who traveled "uptown" to enjoy the various entertainments of Harlem.
. Instead, we had white families who felt compelled to leave the public system for private schools, because that’s what the Southern leadership encouraged them to do. The racial tension was nurtured.
What about Black people who choose to go to (nearly) all-Black schools? What about Black people who choose to live in segregated dorms, form segregated student unions and organizations?
Crack:
I've said it before and I will say it again...we don't hate you because you're Black...we hate you because you are an asshole.
We have elected a Black president. We have Black sports stars, music stars and actors. Thug life dominates our culture. The government ha spent the last 60 years transfering trillions of dollars of wealth from White people to Black people. Poor Black people in the United States have a better standard of living than most middle class Black people anywhere else in the world.
Tell me how much this country hates Black people.
Black people shouldn't expect love. They, like everyone else should expect neutrality.you shouldn't be treated worse than anyone else. But neither should you be treated better. That's what integration entitles you.
Just ask any white guy who isn't a millionaire but humping it out at a minimum wage job. His white entitlementt gets him the same indifference as anyone else. If he can't pay his bills he gets evicted.
Lucien wrote:
"No, racism is better understood as white supremacy—anything that furthers a broad hierarchy of racist inequity, where whites possess the greatest share of power, respect, and resources, and blacks the least."
If blacks are a minority, shouldn't they by definition expect less in the way of power, and resources? They aren't helping their minority status by aborting more of their own than any other minority, of course. But if you have fewer people in society you will have less power.
I love reading Crack's comments. Reading them I am reminded of the Dead Parrot Sketch. He's pining for the fiords. Crack's pining for a time before he was a glint in his father's eye. The sperm that made him was subject to discrimination and he's not going to let go of that perch. There's money in it.
Crack is a troll. Respond accordingly.
Moneyrunner,
"I love reading Crack's comments. Reading them I am reminded of the Dead Parrot Sketch. He's pining for the fiords. Crack's pining for a time before he was a glint in his father's eye. The sperm that made him was subject to discrimination and he's not going to let go of that perch. There's money in it."
I like how you've convinced yourself of all that. It must make you feel great to tell yourself white lies about my life.
You are a white man who is so bold he not only thinks he can re-write my personal story but also be my publicist for his version of it. Sweeet.
Lying's always made white men feel good in the past. Fighting the "savage" indians. Ruling over "inferior" blacks. Kicking the "wetback's" ass. A woman's "place". Yes indeed, white men do like their pretty white lies, which is why so few can tell anyone anything accurate historically today.
So they make up new narratives:
Oh - Brown V Board happened and discrimination went away!
No, wait - Rosa Parks still hadn't gotten on the bus so that can't be right.
Oh - Rosa Parks Rosa Parks didn't get off the bus and discrimination went away!
No, wait - Martin Luther King still hadn't gotten thrown into a Birmingham jail so that can't be right.
Oh - Martin Luther King got thrown into a Birmingham jail and discrimination went away!
No, wait - the Civil Rights Act still hadn't gotten passed so that can't be right.
Oh - but then the Civil Rights Act happened and discrimination went away!
No, wait -….
You guys are idiots dreaming of returning to a past that never existed and you know nothing about. As James Baldwin said - which you would know if you read black writers:
"Whites are trapped in a history they don't understand."
Because your white forefathers knew it was all a horrible lie and so fed whites more throughout time.
Like the lie discrimination was long dead by the time I grew up. What a bunch of malarky.
Today, I'm enjoying the disillusioning of white people, BTW:
Because you're bigger idiots for racist shit than anybody imagined,….
"It's not your 'sticking together' that is the issue. That 'sticking together' is probably the best thing you have going for you."
There's a difference between sticking together and being held hostage.
Which is related to the point I was making the other day. Browbeating people into "sticking together" is morally bankrupt.
It almost seems to be a case of Stockholm Syndrome. It's the new normal even though the benefits to the hostages aren't very apparent, aside from a few scraps now and then provided by the captors. It's easier to see some things from the outside than the inside.
Sticking together for the right things is great. More power to you. But sticking together to hold each other back is no virtue. And compulsion doesn't make the case better (I'll mention East Germany again in that context).
garage mahal said...
Milwaukee has the longest running school choice program in the country. What do we have to show for it? Schools that perform more poorly than public schools, hundreds of millions of additional taxes, and one of the most segregated cities in America. But, segregation is probably a net bonus for the politicians and scam artists that shove voucher schools down the throat of the public.
Please list for me the schools that are performing "more poorly than (Milwaukee) public schools" Corky, and what voucher schools are soved down the throat of the public.
Knicks exec Larry Johnson recently called for an all-Black basketball league.
A.K.A., the NBA.
kcom,
"There's a difference between sticking together and being held hostage."
There it is again - did you see that, Moneyrunner? He, too, is replacing the truth with his lies because WHITE. Tell me, kcom:
When my roommate called me last night as he got harassed by the cops, and I vouched for him, were we sticking together or being held hostage? (I know the racist cops were holding my roommate hostage but that's not what I'm talking about,…) Do regularly-occurring racist events like that factor into your view of how blacks behave or do you always ignore our actual lives in favor of the age-old racist suggestion that we don't have minds of our own - because WHITE? And is that only argument you've got for our behavior (the poor mental "hostages" known as me, my family and friends)? It's fun to hear others. Racist outlooks tickle me when they get sunlight.
BTW - did it occur to you that depriving blacks of agency, as you are, is an old racist ploy? Oh yes. It goes all the way back to Jefferson. Kind of a nice cultural reminder of what it means for you to be an American, don't it? Carrying on the great traditions of white people, you are.
I salute you,...
Please list for me the schools that are performing "more poorly than (Milwaukee) public schools" Corky, and what voucher schools are soved down the throat of the public.
He can't.
Lying is what garage does.
jr565,
"If blacks are a minority, shouldn't they by definition expect less in the way of power, and resources?"
BWAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA!!!!!
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
BWAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA!!!!!
Jesus, jr, you're a fucking hoot!
A racist hoot (Bless your heart) but still a hoot!
Gahrie,
"We have elected a Black president."
Yes. The first one in the country's history. A glorious moment - but still a shameful necessity, and statistic, for the country built on all men are created equal.
Also, Pakistan has had a single female president twice, as well - are you going to claim that means women are treated equal there? Why not? It's what you're suggesting, here, even though 97% of blacks repeatedly say it's so. What's the matter? You believe the make-believe world you see on TV before what people tell you themselves as they go home to their segregated communities?
And that brings us to two more issues:
1) The idea America's situation is different than Pakistan's because WHITE.
2) Even when blacks tell whites the truth of our lives, racists deny it - to our face - so little can get done, which is guaranteed to deliver the same racist result as always. None - which compounds the problem further and leaves whites in the unfortunate position of being framed as untrustworthy as always.
"We have Black sports stars, music stars and actors."
No, after 400 years, this wave is still the FIRST "black sports stars, music stars and actors" and whites want us to forget there's never been many before. (I'm old enough to remember screaming "Momma, come quick - there's a black person on TV!") Or how whites regard us behind the scenes. Poor Donald Starling. He got caught.
"Thug life dominates our culture."
O.K., you got me there - I see and hear it EVERYWHERE.
BTW - You've really got to be insane, to hold this view you have, because it doesn't jive with reality at all.
"The government ha spent the last 60 years transfering trillions of dollars of wealth from White people to Black people."
400 years of brutal treatment, total theft, terror, and top-to-bottom injustice, and you've put 60 years into a first-ever effort to fix it - with hostile whites fighting every effort, every step of the way, in and out of government - and without any notion of justice for the enormous crimes committed against us. That's all good for whites.
Racist.
"Poor Black people in the United States have a better standard of living than most middle class Black people anywhere else in the world."
So? Does the fact we're black mean we Americans should expect less than whites, as jr565 said? That our blood isn't the same? Our desire for a normal life is worth less?
Just crazy talk.
"Tell me how much this country hates Black people."
Enough it'll never play straight with us, that's how much.
You simply prefer comforting yourselves with as many lies as you can muster, for as long as possible, before we destroy them and then hate you for being so venal, and stupid, as to make us do any of it - while living in our own country - in the first place.
I did mention my roommate getting harassed by the cops last night, didn't I? For merely going out to the car?
THAT's the America you claim doesn't exist and you're still defending.
Screw that and your status quo bullshit.
It's all just lame - especially how you (and jr565) are so ignorant about it, and your own role in it, as you're also compelled to speak as though you have some authority, scholarly or otherwise - because you don't.
You're just pathetic thinkers, hoping to be helped out by ignoring history.
Here's Lee Atwater talking about politics from 1954 still to today - enjoy your "colorblind" lies,…
"When my roommate called me last night as he got harassed by the cops, and I vouched for him, were we sticking together or being held hostage?"
That's a good thing. No argument there. I've been in your role before in a similar situation with my best friend. But of course, the cop wasn't calling you an Uncle Tom and telling you what you were required to believe so I don't think you're really addressing my point. And it is actually quite a narrow point -- let people make up their own minds about what they believe and how they want to live their lives. If they freely decide to "stick together", more power to 'em. If they decide to do something different, because that doesn't work for them, leave 'em alone to live their own life. That's their call and it doesn't warrant vile epithets against them.
"did it occur to you that depriving blacks of agency..."
Did it occur to you that depriving individuals of agency (which is what many commentators are attempting to do) is an old trick to enforce conformity at the expense of personal freedom? That's really the only kind of agency there is. Individuals make decisions. That's the fundamental unit of agency. Let them decide.
I'm not depriving anyone of anything. I believe everyone can and should make up their own mind and no one has the right to speak for them. But too many leftist/liberal/Democrats apparently think otherwise. They attempt to enforce dogma on certain groups and not on others. But since agency resides in the individual, that's a false proposition. And they should cease and desist that stupidity.
Here's another example that just came to mind - the public sector union law in Wisconsin. It's quite clear now that many of those public sector employees were, in essence, being held hostage by the union. The minute they had a chance to get out, they did. Again, that's because agency resides in individuals. As individuals, they were previously deprived of the power to leave. Now that they can, they have. No one's stopping the ones who want to stay (no one is depriving that entire group of agency) but simply extending the choice to everyone to make up their own mind. If the choice to stay is a wise one, those people will benefit. If it's not, they'll suffer. But the point is, it's now a free choice. You can bet if the union has its way in the future, that choice will be taken away again. And that's a real deprivation of agency.
kcom,
"When my roommate called me last night,..were we,...being held hostage?"
"That's a good thing."
Wait - you DID say, definitely, we do this because we're hostages - to who, in this situation?
"I've been in your role before in a similar situation,…the cop wasn't calling you an Uncle Tom."
I also wasn't speaking rudely of blacks, as a matter of course, so the likelihood of me being labeled a Tom are pretty low. You, maybe not so much, because all you are is bad comments.
"Let people make up their own minds about what they believe and how they want to live their lives."
I don't know blacks who don't do that. But, if someone gets an education or whatever and starts lording it over the others - for not getting the same opportunity - they get what they're asking for. My advice:
Learn some social skills.
"If they freely decide to 'stick together', more power to 'em."
Bullshit. I've caught nothing but Hell - from whites - for me and other blacks doing just that.
"If they decide to do something different, because that doesn't work for them, leave 'em alone to live their own life."
The problem is Toms don't leave others alone - they go to whites and start loudly co-signing their shit about the rest. Fuck 'em.
"That's their call and it doesn't warrant vile epithets against them."
Meh. We'll shut up when they do.
"did it occur to you that depriving blacks of agency…"
"Did it occur to you that depriving individuals of agency is an old trick?"
Clumsy way to avoid my question about YOUR actions. Nice to see you're up to your "old tricks" then.
"That's really the only kind of agency there is. Individuals make decisions. That's the fundamental unit of agency. Let them decide."
Not in this racial hothouse, set up by white people, alone. They took our agency and now want to get ahistorical about how our that created our culture. No - we are a group - and we decide when we're not. Not you. Wanna change that?
Give us justice so we, too, can be fully free.
"I'm not depriving anyone of anything."
No, we are hostages because you believe we use our own minds. Liar.
"I believe everyone can and should make up their own mind and no one has the right to speak for them."
Then leave America's representative form of government - now.
"But too many leftist/liberal/Democrats apparently think otherwise."
The idea the Democrats control black minds is racist, wrong, insulting, and ludicrous.
Or rather, they make YOU sound that way.
Cont'd,...
"[Democrats] attempt to enforce dogma on certain groups and not on others."
You mean like Right Wing Christians do? I'm an atheist, so I'm asking, because they definitely do it, too. Since they do - and do it a lot - why do you just focus on Democrats having that problem? Are you just a political opportunist for the Right, lying wherever possible for your team?
Low behavior, like a snake.
"They should cease and desist that stupidity."
They, They, they - you sure are concerned with what blacks and Democrats do. Why not whites and Republicans? There's more of them - and they're being called racists everywhere. And they cause mass shootings, and run basketball teams like racist plantations (not the "Democrat plantation" Republicans talk about, but real ones from slavery) and run the economy into the gutter, and say things like "Let me tell you about the Negro" and then lie their asses off - and they've been doing it for hundreds of years.
Why no concern about all that - together - and the effects it's obviously had on your fellow citizens? Let me guess:
Whatever whites are crying about today - when they outnumber blacks 6 to 1 - are more important to you.
But you're not a racist. After 400 years of everything being more important. Sure.
"Here's another example that just came to mind - the public sector union law in Wisconsin.,..."
Um, if no one's stopping them, then what's your point?
"If the choice to stay is a wise one, those people will benefit. If it's not, they'll suffer. But the point is, it's now a free choice."
97% of blacks beg to differ. Let me guess - you, being white, automatically win the debate over how we conduct our lives, no matter what we say.
God, I love this country.
"You can bet if the union has its way in the future, that choice will be taken away again. And that's a real deprivation of agency."
No, a real deprivation of agency is the fact Wisconsin blacks don't have public transportation into town from the ghetto to vote in the first place.
Missed THAT, did you?
But, of course, it's just another symbol of how on top of things whites are when discussing what's important to blacks.
Fighting the fucking union is so low on the totem pole, of what priorities Wisconsin should be addressing, I'd be embarrassed to speak on politics if I was white and lived there because most of what I read about them dealing with is foolishness.
Oh - and Scott Walker keeps a racist staff on top of everything else.
If this country was serious about race at all, it would've gotten rid of them rather than the union,...
"I did mention my roommate getting harassed by the cops last night, didn't I? For merely going out to the car? "
My wife and children wish they could be black. The Native Americans have been treated way worse than any black person has ever been treated. They are shoved out of sight and out of mind, they are put onto reservations. Imagine! Imagine black people being shoved into their own little parts of the USA. The horror.
But you don't realize the plight of the Native American, because you hate them and a racist, because black.
What do the Native Americans have? At least you have sports stars and actors and even President of the United States.
Native American's have nothing.
But you're so steeped in your own racism and hatred toward Native Americans, you don't see it. You can't see it. You're not capable of seeing it.
Crack-
You need to focus your hate on the people that are actually hurting you. I agree that conservatives are as a whole completely ignorant about what your are going through and the GOP is called the stupid party for a reason.
But the problems of poor and black people stem from progressive policies and progressives are doing it with intent. They want black/poor people uneducated and poor and dependent forever. It is stupid for republicans/conservatives to say there aren't problems. There are problems, and it is because of democrats and progressives. They owned the plantations. They fought against abolition. They passed Jim Crow. Now they have re-segregated public schools and used affirmative action to divide people and cause dissention and envy.
Ranting Republicans-
I wish the conservatives on this page and in that party would start displaying some critical thinking ability as well. You are treating people like Crack as an enemy. Try to put your arguments as a win-win proposition rather than a constant "quit yer bitching" rant. He has some legitimate complaints and as long as you treat them as negligible whining nothing will change. The democrats at least show some fake empathy and after they screw black people they feed the legitimate sense that black people got screwed. It is awful but it is enough to win votes.
...a constant "quit yer bitching" rant.
Bullshit. The commenters here are not telling crack to quit his bitching. They are reacting to crack's racist blanket indictment of ALL white Americans as responsible for any and all black American social and cultural failures.
Crack's racist and racialist philosophy is his own self-made excuse for his own inability to make it. The reaction to his racism is the effect, not the cause of it.
Currently and for decades now that is holding back white/black race relations in the US is not any marginal and minority white influence. Its those powerful black leaders who work and leverage the percentage of the black population that WANTS to hear that ALL their social and cultural issues are the results of race discrimination. Crack buys into that because its a hell of a lot easier than to man up and take control of his life. He demands to be paid off for being black. That is what incenses the commenters here.
This is just a quick (hopefully) post to clarify a couple of parts of my post you misread. Not that it will change your mind on anything, but whatever. It's in the interest of accuracy.
"That's a good thing."
I meant standing up for your friend. Like I said, I did the same for mine. No complaints there.
"The idea the Democrats control black minds is racist, wrong, insulting, and ludicrous."
I'm not saying they control them. I'm saying they use every vile trick in the book to try to control them. It's not a criticism of black people it's a criticism of Democrats. Remember Journolist (i.e. Democrats) and their little gem for responding to a controversy, "Pick a Republican, it doesn't matter which one, and accuse them of racism." That's how you make a substantive argument for your side, right?
"If the choice to stay is a wise one, those people will benefit. If it's not, they'll suffer. But the point is, it's now a free choice."
97% of blacks beg to differ. Let me guess - you, being white, automatically win the debate over how we conduct our lives, no matter what we say.
I'm referring to union members here, regardless of race. Being that it's Wisconsin, I would imagine a very high percentage of those union members are white.
Oh, one more thing, please quote something from Condoleezza Rice that shows she's "lording it over the others."
And, sorry, one more, last thing:
"Not in this racial hothouse, set up by white people, alone. They took our agency and now want to get ahistorical about how our that created our culture. No - we are a group - and we decide when we're not. Not you. Wanna change that?"
And they still are. Or are trying mightily to do so, and that's what's so sad. The lily white left has got a plan for you that can't fail. They've said so themselves. For 50 years.
And no, I can't change it. Only you can.
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