"... was that there was no negative reaction from the semicircle of gun-toting and conspiracy-minded supporters who had gathered round to hear it."
It's not that there's an old guy out there somewhere in American saying things like that, it's that people had gathered 'round. He wasn't some old grandad with a family who loves him and lets him talk and lets it go. He was (is?) a folk hero, and anybody who gets into hero-promoting activities has an obligation to exercise vigilance and stand ready to speak up and talk back. But those who are susceptible to the belief that they have found a hero may have linked vices like passivity, an uncritical mind, a tendency to merge with the group, and taste for the ecstasy of proximity to the object of worship.
Hero worshipers of the world, disunite.
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१२७ टिप्पण्या:
yeah, it's a shame how people have sucked themselves into obama's orbit, isn't it?
The reaction is to what the idiot government was doing.
Which Bundy stood up to, and drew others in support.
I propose a goverment SWAT department that takes on and wipes out other government SWAT teams until they're cleaned out.
Would the NY Times have reported any negative reaction?
Even early on, Bundy struck me as a poor spokesman for a cause, even a worthy cause. I appreciated his highlighting issue of federal ownership of so much land and the possible corruption associated with this (see: Harry Reid).
His other opinions should be taken on their merits or, as in this case, vilified for the lack thereof.
I don't know much about it but without the U.S. Army & Cavalry it would still belong to the Cherokees unless they didn't care if the Apaches held it. The Cherokees kept the Spanish from being there; see Empire of the Summer Moon.
"But those who are susceptible to the belief that they have found a hero may have linked vices like passivity, an uncritical mind, a tendency to merge with the group, and taste for the ecstasy of proximity to the object of worship."
Very well said. Righties and lefties both show these vices.
The Bible teaches that we are all sinners, and also that we should love the sinner but hate the sin. We can love the good things in Bundy while hating the bad things in him. It's not all good and all bad.
The ugly thing is that you are prepared to swallow a very heavily edited tape. Watch the whole unedited video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI
The only question is whether you were duped or were willing to be duped.
He says nothing that hasn't been said on this or many other blogs, or in public, even by Democrats.
A hero ... like Obama? Who has already done far more damage than Bundy could even contemplate.
Uh, could it be because the people gathered around Bundy heard the whole statement and not just the part the NYT lifted so they could perform their ritual killing?
And I don't recall many other liberal or progressive blogs being overly horrified by this:
http://tinyurl.com/muhxo32
Double post, sorry.
Before judging Clive Bundy, MoDo needs to hear the whole tape vs the cropped tape from Media Matters. She can go to Pat Dollard.
a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...
I don't know much about it but without the U.S. Army & Cavalry it would still belong to the Cherokees unless they didn't care if the Apaches held it. The Cherokees kept the Spanish from being there; see Empire of the Summer Moon.
4/27/14, 11:23 AM
-------------------------
Commanche not Cherokee
im waiting for someone to ask obama abt that next time he gets up on a stage with Rev Al "white interlopers" Sharpton. By the NYT calculus of words causing violence-especially if uttered by conservatives- he is responsible for a few deaths. or maybe we know have some insight on the congregants of Jeremiah Wrights church......
"Would the NY Times have reported any negative reaction?"
This. Which pretty much makes this, while true, irrelevant:
"But those who are susceptible to the belief that they have found a hero may have linked vices like passivity, an uncritical mind, a tendency to merge with the group, and taste for the ecstasy of proximity to the object of worship."
I'm sorry, if every Democratic politician who stood by without comment when some left-wing or identity group racist nutjob mouthed off were hounded out of office there would be no Democratic politicians in office.
Remember Bill Clinton and his Sister Souljah moment? Why was it noteworthy? Because, for once (and there haven't been many such moments in political ranks since) a centrist politician publicly told the nut job in the group to fuck off. It was a "man bites dog" moment in its rarity.
He was both right and wrong.
He was right to question the progressive overreach of the federal government. He was right to question the contractual terms, which materially changed when environmentalists demanded to protect a tortoise. He was right to question the consequences of redistributive change. He was right to question the structural inequality in high density population centers, which is obfuscated and ignored through financing and welfare. He was right to question progressive/regressive morality which has sponsored biological and social corruption, including disruption of families, dysfunctional communities, and abortion/murder of over one million Americans annually.
He was wrong to imply that slavery had any redeeming value. He was wrong to narrow the focus of people injured by progressive dysfunction and corruption. He was wrong when he failed to cite the selective interests of environmentalists to protect flora, fauna, including endangered species, while lobbying to preserve their funding sources (e.g. "green" technology, politicians).
Anyway, the issues he raised are separable and deserve to be treated individually on their merits. It's telling that The New York Times is actively engaged to submerge issues which affect all Americans, black, white, etc. and humanity, really. They should be cheerleaders for out-of-sight and out-of-mind solutions, and to reduce the problem set (e.g. abortion/murder) to a manageable population?
"Slaves to Prejudice"
That's ironic coming from Maureen Dowd. Imagine the masters of the mimetic process (group think) lecturing other people about idolizing Mr. Bundy in an article designed to reinforce group think.
American citizens are rightly alarmed when the Federal Government sends an army to a man's ranch in order to collect a debt. They have every reason to be alarmed. Mr. Bundy is a private citizen with the right to his own opinions. He doesn't have the power to oppress anyone. The government obviously has the power and the weapons to suppress anyone who they chose.
If the lefties were really "liberal" as they claim they would be more concerned about individual liberty protected an over reaching government than about censuring Mr. Bundy's private opinions. Of course the left is not really liberal at all but is really interested in a totalitarian system ruled by them in the USA in order to bring about "fairness" not in individual liberty. Of course fairness on the left doesn't exclude leftie political masters from living in splendor and wealth.
Maureen Dowd:
Unlike folk hero Cindy Sheenah, folk hero Cliven Bundy does not have absolute moral authority.
I'll get outraged about Bundy after we run Sharpton and Farrakhan out of business.
If I spent five minutes reading Maureen Dowd's column each week, it would be five minutes I didn't have to do something worthwhile, like a crossword puzzle.
How dare anyone not be politically correct! How dare anyone make true statements and wonder about things that his betters have told him not to mention!
As others have pointed out, Dowd, and the other liberal reporting & opinionating, is typically dishonest and hypocritical.
"Typical White Woman" Obama and "My People" Holder are more racist than Bundy.
Apparently Bundy has some liberal views on Hispanics and immigration. Dowd's bigotry does not allow her to factor those views into her evaluation of Bundy. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Bundy is opposed to gay marriage and he is probably iffy on Darwin. Is this the kind of man we want to raise our cattle? ........This fact is glossed over by conservatives but many of the kulaks were religious conservatives who possessed all of the prejudices of their age. The commissars from the Soviet were, on the other hand, scientific thinkers with all the most advanced knowledge of their era. Clearly, these were the kind of people you want in charge of agriculture. So far as cattle grazing goes, someone like Maureen Dowd is so much smarter than a primitive like Bundy.
I heard ignorance in Bundy's impromptu statements by the highway, not hatred.
I don't know if any of Bundy's supporters asked him to baptize their children.
I did hear both hate and ignorance from Rev. Wright in his prepared statements from his pulpit for twenty years.
Yet I didn't hear a "negative reaction" from the semicircle of gun-taking and conspiracy-minded supporters who had gathered round to hear it.
Including the Barack Obama, who had his children baptized by him.
Why are Dowd's remarks about Bundy not also applicable to the NAACP who gave Stirling a lifetime achievement award.
So...if you say something racist and non PC does that invalidate everything you've ever said and done?
For instance, if I go back and find out Schroedinger said something in support of the Nazis and the final solution (don't know if he did or not, just giving a hypothetical) does that invalidate Schroedinger's Wave Equation?
Bullshit!
Both the "hero" business and the "squirrel" playing of the race card.
It's a right of center story so the central figure needs to be a "hero." If it was a left of center story the central figure needs to be a "victim." Indeed, with just a slight tweaking, Cliven Bundy could be a "victim" of governmental overreach.
Substitute "victim" for "hero" in Althouse's post and it makes just as much sense. But the post is still equally banal.
The most curious thing to me about this was that there was no story in our local newspaper about the federal government grab of this man's cattle, but there was a prominent front page story about the "racist views of a conservative folk hero." If I only got my news from my newspaper, I would have been left scratching my head, or as more likely thinking that all conservatives are racist.
“when you're up to your nose in shit, keep your mouth shut.” – Jack Beauregard
There you have it.
All this right-wing hero worshiping of Clive Bundy could have been nipped in the bud had he been vetted by the left-wing media before he stood up for a cause.
Though I've seen no "hero" complex/cult of personality associated with Bundy, I'm sure it's there because the left tells me so.
Before anyone rode to Bundy's aid, they should have had him checked out first by the NAACP. They have a knack for sniffing out racist.
Liberal NAACP Set To Give “Lifetime Achievement Award” To LA Clippers Owner Caught Making Racist Comments About Blacks…
Also, from the article -
"It’s a measure of how hallucinogenic conservatives are that they are trying to re-litigate slavery during the second term of the first African-American president."
Re-litigate. Really? And Dowd thinks its conservatives who are "hallucinogenic."
These are partisanly, but not intellectually, serious people. Their smug outrage and happy shouts of racism gotcha should be treated accordingly.
It seems the statements have been edited or at least cropped to make them seems worse (not that they are right in any case). Neverthess, for some people hearing someone say one stupid, ignorant or hurful thing is not the WORST THING EVAH. Not everyone lives in a perfect PC bubble in NY, with AEGIS-level radar ready to detect a single unpermitted thought. Maybe they have more important things to worry about.
And as noted above, the masive and rank hypocricy from the screeching left when it comes to "hate by association" is such that I really can't give a damn any more. I don't agree with what was said, but I won't waste one joule of energy caring about it.
It's like, I may not agree with everything Bundy said, but you, know, despite the hate, I would sit in his church fot 20 years, have him perform my wedding and baptize my kids. And anyway I was asleep when he said that stuff anyway.
The unsettling thing about Maureen Dowd is she has a column in the New York Times.
Did some group of people declare Bundy a hero? The only people I have seen declaring Bundy a hero are the Left trying to convolve protesting federal government over reaction in dealing with Bundy into Conservative hero worship of Bundy.
What reaction could we expect to see from the on the scene protesters now that the feds and news cameras are gone? Clearly commentators and politicians sympathetic to Bundy have expressed their disgust with Bundy's racism.
The question is not if such statements were "racist": But, if they were, on a probability basis, true.
"It’s a measure of how hallucinogenic conservatives are"
Conservatives are hallucinogenic? How does Dowd know? Did she smoke some?
I'd say Maureen Dowdy has an uncritical mind, a tendency to merge with the group, and a taste for the ecstasy of proximity to the object of worship.
Does Maureen have any issues with Harry Reid? If so, may we hear about them?
Any thoughts from Maureen about the women and children who were at the other end of a BLM gun?
Using federal helicopters, snipers and SWAT teams to collect delinquent grazing fees is hereby accepted by citizens of the land of the free because some old coot said stuff.
Bundy delenda est
Anyone who needs a reminder of the carnage the federal government under a leftist government will inflict needs to visit the Branch Davidian Compound outside of Waco, Texas. You don't have to believe in the Shepherd's Rods or think Koresh was a prophet to recognize that it is morally wrong to burn over 80 people to death including 26 children. In the same way, it is possible to react strongly against a federal government which sends an army out to collect a debt from a private citizen without turning that citizen into a hero.
I love how this story won't die. I wonder if they will try a reprise in the fall to see what the armed anti-government party does?
That's a pretty high standard, given the left has Sharpton. Bundy hasn't caused anyone's death.
Mark: "I wonder if they will try a reprise in the fall to see what the armed anti-government party does?"
Probably.
But will the Black Panthers let the journalists come in close enough to report?
Oh, wait.
That's not the party you were referencing?
April Apple said...
Any thoughts from Maureen about the women and children who were at the other end of a BLM gun?
Given Mo's lefty mentality, it will be something along the lines of 'the women are not "real" women' and the children would make excellent heating fuel.
Illuninati:
Bundy is not a hero. It would be a mistake to dilute the significance of that term and concept. He has, however, raised awareness of certain issues which are critical to all Americans. Most notably those behaviors which have sponsored individual and societal corruption and dysfunction, which, among other things, have caused a progressive loss of liberty for ourselves and our surviving progeny.
I suspect at least some of them were stunned, and not sure what they were seeing.
I have a problem with the assumption that the silence equals approval.
Under that logic, how do we evaluate the racist rant and documented decades long history of saying racist things as well as discriminating in rental housing of Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling?
This guy has been a huge supporter of Democrat politicians for years, and was in fact going to receive a Lifetime Achievement award from the NAACP in a few weeks.
Where was the outrage before? His racism was not a secret. It was well documented in court filings. Why aren't all the Democrats who gladly took his money falling all over themselves to return it?
The hypocrisy is stunning...
anybody who gets into hero-promoting activities has an obligation to exercise vigilance and stand ready to speak up and talk back
Get out of town! Really? You voted for Barack Obama. And you're going to tell folks what the right thing for them to do is?
Bwah. hah.
anybody who gets into hero-promoting activities has an obligation to exercise vigilance and stand ready to speak up and talk back
Yeah. We're about to see Lib-tards, progs, leftists and DemoNcrats live up to this standard.
Until then? You don't make the rules. Because if you did, well we'd be seeing you all up in the face of those same Lib-tards, would we not?
Sorry, the NYT is behind a paywall, so I can't read Maureen Dowd's 400th facile-comparisons-between-disparate-things column. She owes a profound debt to whichever Freshman English teacher taught her that little trick.
Oh please, Althouse. Spare us the guilt by association bullshit.
The NYTs piece was designed to paint a dissenter as a racist, which is what they ALWAYS fucking do.
Let's just shoot any white guy who says anything some liberal thinks is racist, Don't Sterling too.
I must've missed all that lefty denunciation and outrage about Leland Yee.
Don sterling too.
Ah! MoDo is Mo Dumb.
Slaves to Prejudice. Hmmmm. MoDo's hed, or NYT's? Applies to both of them.
Judging by the reaction of the fellow commenters, everyone here not named "Althouse" is well-aware that the Dems' only remaining strategy for silencing any sort of criticism which might become effective is to smear the speaker, using the racist card or the War On Womyn! card. Maybe it works with some feeble-minded centrists, but the rest of us are both wise to their game and bored to tears. We're not going to play their stupid game of automatically denouncing everyone that they tell us to denounce - especially given the MSM/Dem's habit of selective editing (i.e. slander).
Bundy's comments while in part revolting are no more revolting than a lot of what Dowd and others in NYT write.
As others above thread have noted the views of Bundy are irrelevant and the left calling out them are a diversion from the issues the Bundy matter have highlighted-an out-of-control federal government and corruption. Why does the BLM need a military force? Why use a military force to collect a debt? Is the debt even valid considering the government unilaterly change the terms of the contract? Why is Harry Reid so invested in this? If the tortoises are so endangered by Bundy's cattle (no evidence of this has been provided) then how could these very same tortoises be less endangered by developing the very same land for industrial use?
If the Republican's had any brains and guts they would be holding hearings demand why any agency or department of the federal government even need snipers and other military like forces other the obvious ones: the DoD and the DoJ along with the Secret Service and the US Marshals. Another area for these hearings is why is federal land deemed acceptable for development not reverted back to the state it's in?
richard mcenroe,
"He says nothing that hasn't been said on this or many other blogs, or in public, even by Democrats."
The same point made by other black writers on race, including myself, many times. We're damned by both sides, but - in this culture - we're the only ones who see it. A psychologically hellish situation (that's also worthy of reparations, for those of you keeping score at home,…) As W.E.B. deBois asked, all the way back in 1900:
"How does it feel to be a problem?"
I can tell you,...
Maureen Dowd and the east coast elites don't understand the cliven.
He is just a harmless republican cumming to speak with his fellow republicans. Now suck him hos.
But for u old white fat losers the country has changed and your views and life mean nothing-sorry.
Yes you will winn gross, small populated states but in nationwide elections u are dinosaurs.
One South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah win equals like the size of Springfield, mass.
tits.
As others above thread have noted the views of Bundy are irrelevant and the left calling out them are a diversion from the issues the Bundy matter have highlighted-an out-of-control federal government and corruption. Why does the BLM need a military force? Why use a military force to collect a debt? Is the debt even valid considering the government unilaterly change the terms of the contract? Why is Harry Reid so invested in this? If the tortoises are so endangered by Bundy's cattle (no evidence of this has been provided) then how could these very same tortoises be less endangered by developing the very same land for industrial use?
I think that you know the answers to all these questions - e.g. Reid's interest here, and, thus, the BLM, run by his former chief staffer on land use, is likely tied to the Chinese client of his eldest son's law firm, and the fact that cattle apparently can interfere with solar panels, etc.
But, just to amplify your last point - apparently, since the BLM has had to cut staff, one of the victims of that cut are the tortoises that were being protected. Now, apparently, the BLM is killing them. A tool that they could use to get ranchers off the land they have ranched for many decades, but not, apparently, so endangered that they can't kill the excess that they can't take care of.
Ann
Are you a troll on your own site or do believe some of the @#$% you post or do you simply enjoy being trounced by your readers?
Titus said...
"But for u old white fat losers the country has changed and your views and life mean nothing-sorry."
If anyone doubts that the left is racist, I offer this post by Titus as evidence. The left has apparently also added bigotry against fat people to their repertoire.
So here's the deal: Next Sunday we have a round table "conversation on race in America", with Bundy, Sterling, Rev. Wright, and Sen. Reid, moderated by Al Sharpton. I'd listen to that even it was on MSNBC.
Mountain Maven,
"Ann
Are you a troll on your own site or do believe some of the @#$% you post or do you simply enjoy being trounced by your readers?"
Sincerely - you think this collection of wing nuts are actually winning the argument?
I "heard the whole statement" and still find the coot to be a racist surrounded by others of his ilk who "wonder" if I wouldn't be better off picking cotton for them.
These idiots think that's a laudable thought to have - Why? HE ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT ME! DIDN'T YOU HEAR IT? NO RACISM THERE.
Considering the pretzel logic thought process, that gets them to such a place, is - alone - enough to make me vomit in my own mouth.
Racist country, racist history, racist people,...
Illuninati:
Just Titus. You cannot legitimately offer general condemnation unless it's justified by a principle or behavior adopted by a class of people. The conservative path, short of a class conflict which threatens our unalienable rights, requires us to judge people as individuals.
Mountain Maven:
First, they came for the "white man"... This is why there was a tremendous bloodletting to enforce equal protection. Then, they came for the "clump of cells"... Let's hope these people reject their dreams of redistributive and retributive change, and finally recognize individual dignity and intrinsic value. Unfortunately, their words and actions indicate that they have learned nothing from their past failures.
But for u old white fat losers the country has changed and your views and life mean nothing-sorry.
Because a life of potty talk, blow jobs and dogwalking is so meaningful.
SGT Ted:
The New York Times article serves several purposes. One, to provoke people to fire the first shot. Two, to marginalize and submerge issues which have critical importance to all Americans. Three, to marginalize or eviscerate anyone who dares to question their authority. Unfortunately, for The New York Times, their principles and practices, which denigrate individual dignity, and devalue human life, undermine any claims of moral authority.
I remember when the lefties like Althouse and Dowd thought people deserved to be protected from government overreach, even if their views were unpopular.
Racist country, racist history, racist people,...
nobody is stopping you from leaving. I'm sure your brothers in Africa would welcome you to their all Black paradises.
MayBee: "I remember when the lefties like Althouse and Dowd thought people deserved to be protected from government overreach, even if their views were unpopular."
Actually they never believed that.
They only paid such principles lip service while it was in their political interest to do so.
There is a tidal wave of evidence provided daily that the left never actually believed a single thing they lectured us about.
Fen's Law.
"How does it feel to be a problem?"
I can tell you,...
But that is because you are an asshole, not because you are Black.
Titus: "But for u old white fat losers the country has changed and your views and life mean nothing-sorry."
Why does Titus insist on insulting garage in this way? Doesn't garage have enough problems?
On a related note, can you imagine how Titus views his own, white, Wisconsinite parents?
There are so many Freudian layers there the mind boggles.
Gahrie said...
Racist country, racist history, racist people,...
nobody is stopping you from leaving. I'm sure your brothers in Africa would welcome you to their all Black paradises.
Because the white man didn't go there yet, and do anything, right?
Ignorance will get you nowhere,...
Crack: "Racist country, racist history, racist people,..."
Hmmm, I think Idi Amin might say: 'Racist country, racist history, DELICIOUS people....."
Gahrie,
"That is because you are an asshole, not because you are Black."
Yeah, well, Uncle Ray's read your musings and feels the same way about you.
Good guy, that Uncle Ray. White guy. My friend. Doesn't act black, or do crazy white shit - just an all-around good guy who reads you and thinks, "Wow - Crack's really been checking out some weird shit!"
That's all you are in my real life, Gahrie:
Entertainment value for good people,...
Drago said...
Crack: "Racist country, racist history, racist people,..."
Hmmm, I think Idi Amin might say: 'Racist country, racist history, DELICIOUS people....."
Did he become an American citizen?
You must be thinking of Jeffery Dahmer,...
Oh, bullshit, Althouse. It's the cause, not the man that attracts.
It is typical for the mediaswine to deflect the conversation away from the important matter of the federal government's acquisition and use of land (and the possibility of Harry Reid's corruption) to the wholly unimportant matter of Cliven Bundy's view of the plight of "the Negro."
It is equally typical for the "passive, uncritical minds" of the left to go along as though Bundy's "racism" somehow mattered in this context.
In fact, I suspect if a poll were taken it would show that most people who sympathize with Bundy's struggle do not support his illegal actions and are wholly unaware of his views on "the Negro."
Finally, there is the claim by the execrable Ms. Dowd that Fox News "hailed" Bundy as a "savior" and a "folk hero." Really, Maureen? "Hailed?"
Really, Professor?
Bundy's opinion on just about anything is irrelevant, except to people who want to continually deflect attention from the fact that a government bureau has organized itself as a paramilitary operation to destroy a citizen at the behest of some politicians.
Crack: "Because the white man didn't go there yet, and do anything, right?"
LOL
Crack sure is defensively protective of the Arabs who are still, to THIS day, enslaving african blacks.
Why, it's almost like he has no principled positions and is simply looking for a payday.
Can't wait to share Cracks $100 Trillion demand with my Ghanaian associates.
Want to talk about racism? You should hear what those guys say about American blacks.
Whew. I find myself attempting to try and defend American blacks to a certain extent because the Africans don't understand all the social and political forces that have been in play, especially the impacts of social policy in the last 50 years.
The most astonishing fact to these africans is that up to the launch of Johnson's policies, the black family was mostly intact, despite the institutional racism and roadblocks and oppression.
After the implementation of those policies the disintegration of the black family began in earnest.
This honestly surprised them, and it surprises most africans that I come into contact with where this topic is discussed.
Even worse from many of their perspectives is that 40% of all abortions are of black babies, where blacks make up only 13% of the total population.
So, in the end, Crack can whine all he wants about the Cliven Bundy's he wants, it's his liberal/lefty pals lining up to whack black babies.
Which crack is utterly, completely, totally cool with.
After all, if reparations do come, all the black babies being aborted mean the money will be split less ways.
To paraphrase the Wayans, from Cracks perspective, increasing abortions of black babies potentially means "Mo money Mo money Mo money!"
Crack: "You must be thinking of Jeffery Dahmer,.."
So, let me see if understand the distinction.
Jeffrey Dahmer, white American and cannibal.
Uncool.
Idi Amin, wonderful, sun-person, life-affirming all-round-good-guy black guy from African and cannibal.
Totally cool.
Got it.
Thanks for the clarification Crack! You ability to discern distinctions for similar behavior is, how shall I say it, almost "clinically and diagnosably" superior.
By the way, Crack, as a white guy, let me be (possibly) the first to note you do not speak with a discernable "negro dialect".
I think that's wonderful.
I'm sure Harry Reid would as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/09/obama.reid/
I aspire to view the black man in as open and accepting a way as the leader of the Democrat party in the US Senate.
Crack: "Doesn't act black, or do crazy white shit..."
I notice you failed to inform Uncle Ray, as you've informed us, that all of his success is built on the graves of slaves.
I wonder why you happened to leave that out in your discussions with him.
He does understand that, doesn't he? That all his success has come at the expense of blacks?
I mean, how can you endlessly parrot that here and then, suddenly, when the microphone is thrust into your face, become mute on the topic?
Strange indeed.
I notice Ray hasn't offered you a co-host slot or perhaps some shared revenue role in his show.
Which was built on the graves of black slaves.
Why not Crack? Doesn't he know he owes you?
And why don't you ban trolls like crack and Titus before you lose more readers
Crack: "Sincerely - you think this collection of wing nuts are actually winning the argument?
I 'heard the whole statement' and still find the coot to be a racist surrounded by others of his ilk ...."
Although she didn't know it, this is what Althouse meant when she referred to "an uncritical mind."
Crack actually thinks the "argument" is about whether Bundy is a racist and whether the people supporting him are too.
If the bomb was about to detonate over his head, Crack would want to argue that the guy who dropped it was a racist.
^^^
"It's a right of center story so the central figure needs to be a "hero." If it was a left of center story the central figure needs to be a "victim." Indeed, with just a slight tweaking, Cliven Bundy could be a "victim" of governmental overreach."
Umm , what , hit nail on head
nn said:
"You cannot legitimately offer general condemnation unless it's justified by a principle or behavior adopted by a class of people. The conservative path, short of a class conflict which threatens our unalienable rights, requires us to judge people as individuals."
I used Titus racism as illustrative of the racism pervasive on the left. Why do you object to my observation that many on the left are racists? How is that observation against conservative principles?
I think what is going on is pretty obvious. The message of government overreach and a federally funded and armed little army at the beck and call of the Senate Majority Leader is being overridden by the message that Clive Bundy is a racist, and so don't listen to him. Ignore what Reid and the feds are doing, because he is beyond the pale because he is a racist. Much more important to have that frank discussion about race and racism, than about government overreach, and an imperial federal government.
Drago, I heard that there was Cannibalism in Congo when I was living in Rwanda but I hadn't heard that Idi Amin was a cannibal. Like so many other African leaders Amin was a tyrant who killed somewhere between 80,000 and 300,000 other Africans many of whom were the educated elite the country desperately needed.
Of course we could go on to many other African countries and find the same dismal outcome. The problem is tribalism which leads to bloodshed. Tribalism is really racism at the local level in which people are hated and killed because they differ slightly genetically from my own group. This tribalism is the evil dragon which the left is busy stoking in our own country pitting one group against another in order to gain power.
Because the white man didn't go there yet, and do anything, right?
Don't worry...your brothers have fucked things up so bad in the last 40 years that you can hardly tell the White man was ever there in most places.
illuninati: "Drago, I heard that there was Cannibalism in Congo when I was living in Rwanda but I hadn't heard that Idi Amin was a cannibal."
Idi chowed down heartily on a couple of ex-wives (very "ex") as well as a cabinet minister or 2.
Crack will tell you that it doesn't count 'cuz "Jeffrey Dahmer".
Al Sharpton gets rave reactions from Dems.
Just sayin.
Gahrie: "Don't worry...your brothers have fucked things up so bad in the last 40 years that you can hardly tell the White man was ever there in most places."
In defense of the black leaders of Africa, it has to be admitted that the majority of the most screwed up leaders were/are simply pursuing their version of a marxist paradise.
And Marx was a white dude from Europe.
Boy, remember when the lefties on campus were telling us they were tired of having to study DWEM's? (Dead, White, European Males)
And the lefties also helpfully informed us that these DWEM's were horrifically over-represented in the canon.
Of course, for some odd reason, the left never really called out to get rid of old Karl. That was one DWEM that they found totally relevant and cool. Talk about over-represented!
But hey, back to some old white dude in Nevada for whom the feds sent in armed helicopters, SWAT teams and military-trained officers to pick up the equivalent of an overdue library late fee.
Reminiscent of how Clinton the lefties "liberated" Elian Gonzalez at assault-weapons point to deliver him back into the loving arms of Castro and his goons.
Remember, the left cares about children.
"This tribalism is the evil dragon which the left is busy stoking in our own country pitting one group against another in order to gain power."
Mugabe is the clearest example of this, I think. That's the scary thing about these tactics. They're built on elements of truth. Colonialization in Africa was oppressive and wrongheaded in so many ways. Slavery in America was oppressive and wrongheaded in every way. Jim Crow laws were downright evil. Racism is anti-Christ.
So, it's right to fight against these. The trouble comes in there being evil people of a different sort, who will use those causes to gain more power, inciting the oppressed to a constant frenzy so there is never peace or reconciliation, taking advantage of the frenzy to take even more from those who are oppressed. Mugabe is worse than any colonialization, but he is justified because he has the right cause, so people both suffer more and defend their suffering more so that the already oppressor can gain more power and wealth.
People use good to do evil.
Then they brainwash the idealists and oppressed to support them in their continuation of the very frenzy that perpetuates the problem.
It's new agey, really. But, we're blind to that when the new agey is seemingly empowering us.
Mugabe isn't the only example. Mussolini. Arafat. Napoleon. Peron. Chavez. It's the Caudillo approach that has alternately empowered and impoverished the poor in Latin America for centuries. And it shows up here too. In politics and causes.
Mountain Maven said...
"And why don't you ban trolls like crack and Titus before you lose more readers"
Specifically, which readers would she lose and why should she not want to lose them? It's just a blog after all.
Illuninati said...
"[...]Tribalism is really racism at the local level in which people are hated and killed because they differ slightly genetically from my own group. This tribalism is the evil dragon which the left is busy stoking in our own country pitting one group against another in order to gain power."
It may be true that tribalism is really racism at the local level but the racism that has infected American culture for generations, causing extraordinary human suffering here in our own land of the free home of the brave is actually better referred to as "scientific racism." It has a long pernicious history with deep intractable roots.
Meade: "Specifically, which readers would she lose and why should she not want to lose them? It's just a blog after all."
This is no time for a rational cost/benefit analysis.
It's a time for action!
Or as our future demographic majority members might say, "accion!!"
Meade: "It may be true that tribalism is really racism at the local level but the racism that has infected American culture for generations, causing extraordinary human suffering here in our own land of the free home of the brave is actually better referred to as "scientific racism.""
Well, Cracks belief in the superiority, as a race, of blacks over whites certainly qualifies.
Though, to be fair, Crack has not advanced scientific hypotheses/evidence other than anecdotal and social to buttress this claim.
This might be due to lack of scientific/mathematical training as opposed to lack of intent.
Mead why don't you expand on "scientific racism." Are you referring to the eugenic movement?
Drago said:
"This is no time for a rational cost/benefit analysis.
It's a time for action!"
Personally I enjoy the posts from Crack and Titus most of the time. I believe Crack has been badly infected by tribalism but he always stirs up a discussion.
Eugenics is only part of its history. Just google "scientific racism" and I think you will see what I'm talking about.
Cliven Bundy Delenda Est
By Clarice Feldman
she nails it:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/04/cliven_bundy_delenda_est.html
Btw, I don't believe Crack believes in the superiority of any race over any other race. When it comes to our human species, I'm not sure he really believes in the concept of race at all. I know I don't.
From what I could see, much of scientific racism wasn't really science. As our understanding of the genome improves it becomes increasingly apparent that there are several identifiable races but who is to say which race is superior? Each group is adapted to the environment in which their ancestors lived. Within each racial group we can now identify sub-groups, but again, that doesn't mean one is superior to the other.
Illuninati:
I agree with your observation. I was not criticizing you, but qualifying your statement. I think their tactics which denigrate individual dignity and devalue human life have created unreconcilable moral hazards.
Even worse from many of their perspectives is that 40% of all abortions are of black babies, where blacks make up only 13% of the total population."
Drago is this statistic true because if it is it's horrifying and schocking. I don't believe that Bilbo and the Klan in their wildest evil fantasies could have dared dream that.
Bruce you pointed out an irony of using the Endagered Species Act as a vehicle to kill the protected tortoises. Sort of like burning down the village in order to save it.
Meade please don't ban any of the so-called trolls. The Meadhouse blog has among the best commentariat I've seen ( not including myself) and even your trolls are way superior to the average troll on other blogs.
cubanbob: don't worry — if I were to ban any of the so-called trolls, I would have to start by banning myself. Not. gonna. happen.
Talking about race, I find Mead's idea that race is a fiction interesting. (I hope I stated that position correctly.) I don't believe anyone challenged Sotomayor on that basis. If race doesn't exist then her statement that "race matters" is nonsense. That would be equivalent to saying that the tooth fairy matters.
Meade,
"I don't believe Crack believes in the superiority of any race over any other race. When it comes to our human species, I'm not sure he really believes in the concept of race at all."
Shhhhhhhh,...
"The unsettling thing about Barack Obama's ugly rant was that there was no negative reaction from the circle of conspiracy-minded supporters ..."
Fixed it for her.
One thing Crack believes is that the white people here who disagree with him (which is the vast majority of them) deserve to have their mothers raped by black men. He said so a couple of months ago, and repeated it when called on it. Why was that not enough to ban him? I don't know how many readers left because of that and other tiresome expressions of gross racism, but I'm pretty sure the net effect is a net negative.
I think it’s time that Crack and I come clean. This farce has gone on for far too long.
The Truth is that Crack and I are engaged in guerilla marketing for our new movie. You knew it had to be something just like this.
Here’s the trailer:
---------------------------------
In a world where race relations have gone haywire,
Where no one trusts another…or can afford to,
2 men will embark on a journey to change the world.
2 men will rise….and lead the way….and force hatred and darkness to turn tail.
Things are about to get……REAL……and not Hollywood real…..but REAL.
2 men.
Alone, at the beginning. Brothers at the end.
Meet Crack. And Drago.
Together, they are "Happy Just to Be Here, Thank You Very Damn Much"
One white.
One black.
And no one can tell which is which.
Because when you look at them, all you can see is the justice that blasts from their psyches like lasers from God’s own hand.
2 men so violent, yet so righteous, no one would dare try and defend their screwball antics to the Commissioner.
Crack and Drago. Drago and Crack.
A new team.
For a new era.
Get ready.
And brace yourself.
You’ve been warned.
(this film is not yet rated)
Early Reviews:
The New Yorker raves: “We almost didn’t find the theatre in time!”
Roger Ebert thunders: “They gave me double butter on the popcorn!! DOUBLE BUTTER!!!”
Samuel Jackson contributes: “*&&$#%)(%%$#$####@$$%^^&&&**(^%%$, and that was before I even got there!”
The Hollywood Insider opines: “Cracks portrayal of a black man under duress, finding his strength and overcoming all odds to partner up with a fantastic white guy we never heard of before is reminiscent of “Wilson’s” performance in “Castaway””
The Hollywood Reporter chimes in with: “How did the Hollywood Insider get to press before us?”
PBS’ Daniel Tiger offers: “Won’t you be my neighbor…..and pass the sweet and sour sauce.”
Now showing in select theatres
Meade: "cubanbob: don't worry — if I were to ban any of the so-called trolls, I would have to start by banning myself. Not. gonna. happen."
It can't be easy bopping yourself in the noggin, even Meade's oversized and gargantuan one, with the Troll Hammer.
Just think of the pressure exerted on the wrists.
Only someone who has spent an inexplicably long time perfecting the art of pull ups could even hope to pull it off.
Crack:
Why don't you care that blacks murder whites at more than twice the rate that white murder white?
Your lack of anguish is clearly a sign of . . .
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_06.html
I said from the start I was ambivalent about the whole thing. What agitated me the most were the pictures of his son(?) being tazed and having a police dog directed to attack him, while the press asserted that the son "attacked" the BLM(?) officials.
It looked to me that the "cause" Bundy was interested in didn't rise any higher than Cliven Bundy's interest. Comparisons to the Boston Tea Party were and are off the mark.
It's interesting how quickly people gathered to resist the government though, eh? Not to mention the appearance of corruption involving harry reid...
The article by Clarice Feldman cited above (Cliven Bundy Delenda Est) ends with:
But Bundy must be tarred because this latest government action against him exposes the corruption of Majority Senate Leader Reid, brings into question the continued control of such vast stretches of the West by the federal government and shows horrified Americans the brutal tactics, lies, and objectives of the Bureau of Land Management. It’s race used as a “look, squirrel” distraction from the obvious. Don’t be like the white toga ninnies. Do not flee from the forum.
No, Ann, they believe the government is oppressive, that the government is wrong in this case, that the government should not bring guns to bear on a civil matter ... and they are willing to take a stand and defend someone whether they wholly like him or not. If a female is a drug addict, does she deserve help against someone trying to assault her? do we make value judgements on people before we say they have Constitutional rights?
I'm not a lawyer, but after seeing the press then actually reading Bundy's statement I wonder if there's grounds for a lawsuit, maybe defamation of character or libel.
Dr Weevil,
"One thing Crack believes is that the white people here who disagree with him (which is the vast majority of them) deserve to have their mothers raped by black men. He said so a couple of months ago, and repeated it when called on it. Why was that not enough to ban him?"
Because only you believe it. The idea that, outnumbered 6 to 1 by racists, I don't get angry is stupid and everybody - including you - knows it, so why you persist in this immature foolishness (like anyone will take you seriously) is beyond me.
That - along with a strong desire for a lunch of mayo and cheese sandwiches at your desk - must be what white culture does to people.
Get over it, Doc:
Even you know better, so why keep trying?
sdharms,
"If a female is a drug addict, does she deserve help against someone trying to assault her?"
The fact he'd smoked pot was enough for some whites to justify the killing of Trayvon Martin.
Welcome to America - NOT the most rational place on Earth,...
Now it's "immature foolishness" to object when someone wishes gang-rape on the mothers of people he disagrees with? And to expect people who write such vile stuff to be banned from any decent site? Care to comment, Meade? Why do you allow such things on this site?
And what kind of a sick, racist, moron does someone have to be to write something like that, to double down when called on it, and to verbally abuse others who object? Has M.C. ButtCrack forgotten what he wrote just a couple of months ago? Do I need to provide the links to his comments? And what kind of fool thinks anyone should be expected to "get over" a wish that his mother be gang-raped? M.C. ButtCrack refuses to "get over" things that were done decades and centuries ago to people he never even met by people none of us ever met or were even related to, but I'm supposed to "get over" his sick rape fantasy?
At the risk of moving away from the topic at hand, what white person ever said that smoking pot was justification for killing someone?
And just because I'm curios, what black person ever said it's ok to beat up on someone because you think they are following you?
Dr Weevil,
"M.C. ButtCrack refuses to "get over" things that were done decades and centuries ago to people he never even met by people none of us ever met or were even related to, but I'm supposed to "get over" his sick rape fantasy?"
No - take what someone you don't know said on the internet to your grave.
It'll be my pleasure to know you're doing so, too,...
It is no pleasure to me that you seem determined that you, and whatever of 'your people' for whom you purport to speak, will evidently go to to your grave taking all your grudges and grievances with you.
Poor stupid lying ButtCrack thinks I'm going to take his assholistic crack to my grave? I only mention it now and then here because it's such an obvious and complete proof that he is a complete asshole and just as much a racist as Donald Sterling, that he should be banned from any decent site, and that the proprietors of this site are terrible hypocrites for not banning him. I will continue to do so as long as anyone calls him "a good person", as fewer and fewer here do, but I don't lose any sleep over it. For one thing, my mother's ashes are safely inurned in a niche in Arlington next to my father's. The fact that his disgusting perverted racist fantasy could never be enacted against my mother does not make it any less a disgusting perverted racist fantasy.
Of course, the bigoted creep can't resist saying other less-disgusting but still racist things, like his crack about "mayo and cheese sandwiches" above. I've never eaten such a thing in my life, and don't recall the last time I saw anyone of any race eat one. As M.C. ButtCrack knows, people who assume that all black Americans love fried chicken or watermelon are presumed to be racists. How is what he said different? It isn't: he's an unapologetic racist, liar, and all-round asshole.
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