Racism is inherent in people's disbelief that there is inequality in Madison. It is possible to be progressive and ethical and still have racist tendencies. You cannot get rid of those racist tendencies by ignoring them. It might make you vulnerable and it might make you feel bad about yourself for a little while, but once you see the racism here for yourself, you won't be able to ignore it anymore.ADDED: This is that thing of liberals getting after liberals for not being liberal enough. It reminds me of Phil Ochs singing "Love Me, I'm a Liberal." The liberal's desire to be loved for being liberal: 1. Is ludicrous and just makes you want to puncture the vanity, and 2. Creates great vulnerability to attacks based on almost nothing.
२५ एप्रिल, २०१४
"People in Madison are ready to talk about race. It isn't fun, but it is necessary."
"Madison has to prove itself as liberal and progressive right here and right now...."
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१४७ टिप्पण्या:
Tell you what..when we start talking about Black racism, and Asian racism, and Hispanic racism...then we can deal with White racism too.
Because of the racism I feel within myself, I now direct you to do the following...
There's a viewpoint that thinks, when I say "We need to have a conversation", it means "We need to have a conversation".
Then there's another viewpoint that thinks, when I say "We need to have a conversation", it means "I'm going to catalog all your faults, and you will agree with me."
Oddly enough, these two viewpoints rarely seem to be able to come to concordance.
It will be more of a lecture.
It's fun for some people.
Profitable, too.
The Iroquois Confederacy redux. The number of White Angl-Saxon Protestant settler descendants is fast becoming a minority.
What strategy will work this time.
Let's have a conversation about race!... Here's your script.
In 1852 Eston moved with his wife and three children to Madison, Wisconsin, where they changed their surname to Jefferson and entered the white community. Their sons both served in the Union Army, and the older one, John Wayles Jefferson, achieved the rank of colonel. He moved to Memphis, Tennessee, becoming a wealthy cotton broker and never married.
Eston's other children, Beverly and Anna Jefferson, married into the white community, and their descendants have identified as white. Beverley Jefferson's five sons were educated and three entered the professional class as a physician, attorney, and manager at the railroad.[4] One of their male-line descendants was tested in the 1998 DNA study.
This can't be true!
There was no Affirmative Action until the 1960's. How could they achieve without government reminding them of the their black skin?
If you're racist and don't know it, clap your hands!
If you're racist and don't know it, clap your hands!
If you're racist and don't know it, your coded words will clearly show it.
If you're racist and don't know it, clap your hands!
I grow tired of hearing "racist" everywhere.
But I'm amused by the report of racism in Madison Wisconsin, a small city that's enormously satisfied with itself where liberal and politically correct credentials are concerned.
Fifty seven years ago Eisenhower sent paratroopers to forcibly integrate Central High School in Little Rock.
I was a freshman in high school in a San Diego suburb. My fellow students were absolutely horrified at the awful segregation that was going on in Little Rock. Those people down South were just bad! Bad to the bone as it were.
And yet Negroes--the term in use at the time, were pretty much segregated to the Logan Heights area in San Diego. And the deeds to the homes in the two suburbs where students in my high school lived all contained covenants barring sale of the property to Negroes or Jews.
The biblical admonition about motes and beams in the eye certainly applied to my lily white suburb in San Diego.
Seeing racism now isn't as easy as it was back then.
Yeah, some people go so far as to invent racism where there isn't any. Examples include: a person touching your hair, someone asking how you'll celebrate black history month, not knowing that one of the bastard sons of Thomas Jefferson is buried in your town and of course, a mere lack of many black people in your town.
Gahrie,
"Tell you what..when we start talking about Black racism, and Asian racism, and Hispanic racism...then we can deal with White racism too."
Nope - whites started it, they go first.
Everyone is a racist if you define it down enough, so I agree with the authors of the essay. But the reality is, not every last bit of racism needs to be rooted out. The discriminatory kind? Sure. But the ethnic pride kind? no.
People don't need to stop being racists, they just need to stop being dicks. And that applies broadly, not just in race-related matters.
Which Althouse genre is this supposed to file under: Hanging Themselves With Their Own Words; Exposing The Hypocrisy Of Ideologists; or just Madison Life's Rich Pageant?
I find nothing objectionable in the essay itself, other than a general tendency to think what Debevec-McKenney calls racism would be more accurately described as prejudice.
In 1970, in basic training for the USAF, our instructor informed the new recruits, me, that we all are prejudice. That no matter what, we desire others to look and act like yourself. I desire my son to marry and have children like me. It's a tribal and selfless. After all we want our children children to be just like ourselves, are we not the greatest. It's normal to be so. I also believe in five generations, we will all look about the same. This related to DNA commingling. Then there will be something else to yell about. Star Trek had it right, see http://dauntlessmedia.net/startrek/315-let-that-be-your-last-battlefield/
Racism is inherent in people's disbelief that there is inequality in Madison.
Who, exactly, holds that disbelief?
"YOU, YES you, comrade, may even now be harboring reactionary thoughts, doubts in your heart about our GLORIOUS revolution. Come up here, comrade, and perform self-criticism before the masses!"
Racism is inherent in people's disbelief that there is inequality in Madison.
It's trivially true that there is inequality everywhere. Some people are born in the right bed, some have unusual luck (Zuckerberg's idea for Facebook), some have better skills than others (athletes, star programmers), and others flat work harder than others. All of these are sources of inequality.
It is possible to be progressive and ethical and still have racist tendencies.
It is manifest that it is possible to be progressive and still be a hard-core racist. Ethical, maybe not so much. Of course I am among those who define "racist" to mean judging people based on their skin color, as opposed to, say, judging them by the strength of their character. In my heart of hearts I believe that white progressives really do regard Blacks and Hispanics as inferior, hence their mistaken assertion that dark skin color or Spanish surname is equivalent to "disadvantaged."
The article is an unintended parody. The conversation, if it ever happened, would have all the charming characteristics of a chat with a teenager, featured two posts earlier than this one.
How could anything go wrong?
The way they describe it is sort of like bad breath.
First, what definition of racism are we going to use as the basis of our conversation?
Go on, confess. You will feel better...
"I recently posted a short essay to my personal blog about my everyday life in Madison as a young black woman. I wrote that Madison is the most racist place I have ever lived."
"Madison has to prove itself as liberal and progressive right here and right now... It means being absolutely outraged that Wisconsin is the worst state in the union for black children to grow up, even though your children are white."
Interesting article. Isn't Madison dominated by lefties? Aren't lefties the ones who are always calling other people racist? This lady says that lefty land is the very worst racist city she has ever lived! Interesting article indeed.
That quote is Orwellian-type speak for "You're racist even when you don't know you're racist, even when you're on a topic where race isn't inherently involved, and even when you're not saying anything truly bad. You're not racist because of what you do, you're racist because we say you are."
"you don't know that black women are just now starting to wear their hair natural again after centuries of treating it to make it look more white"
Yep, that's news to me.
The girl is right. When I moved from Georgia to the librul central coast of Cali, I noticed there were almost no black people around (~1%) and more people made comfortable racilist remarks than I had ever heard in Georgia. This was the early 1990's, mind you, before people became careful about the n-word.
Gahrie: Being part of the Viking master race, minority so-called racism bounces off my kind without a care. I'm sorry you are hurt by ignorant words hurled in anger and resentment. Perhaps it is because you are an inferior race of "white" that hasn't yet grown a pair and learnt to stand on your hind legs yet. Maybe in your next life Odin will bless you and you will earn your place in Valhalla.
Bias is a product of nature. Prejudice is a product of nurture or circumstance. They should start their talk with recognition of the causes and motivation for developing a prejudice.
To begin, classifying Americans by their "skin color" (i.e. incidental feature), other than for generic identification, creates a predisposition to prejudice. There will be no positive progress until we recognize individual dignity and affirm intrinsic value.
We are human beings. We have a faith or axiom that human beings, individually, and collectively, are endowed with a unique dignity. We evolve from conception to death, and possess an intrinsic value which assures that we are not perceived as interchangeable or disposable, as mere commodities. This classification is universal, and not restricted to the American "race".
Unfortunately, the people of Madison are beginning their talk with a false premise, and will inevitably reach an incorrect conclusion.
The difference between racism and the Loch Ness monster is that racism is actually seen a few more times than it is talked about. A few.
Trey
"Wisconsin is the worst state in the union for black children to grow up"
A link is provided but it seems to be a "garage mahal link", i.e. goes nowhere useful. Someone explain please.
A woman asked to touch her hair, and a man asked her how she would celebrate black history month. These are the examples she presents, to demonstrate how racist Madison is.
Madison must be paradise.
It's about time!
Madison has a reputation as one of the most progressive cities in the US.
It is also, based on objective data, one of the most racist.
Black/White unemployment:
Dane County25/5%
Wisconsin 23/7%
US 18/8%
Black/white children in poverty:
Dane County 75/5%
Wisconsin 44/12%
US 34/14%
Black/white students not taking ACT:
Dane County 70/36%
Wisconsin 50/41%
Juvenile arrest rate per 100,000:
Dane County 469/77
Wisconsin 329/98
US 71/33
Adult arrest rate per 100,000:
Dane County 295/36
Wisconsin 230/33
US 82/33
So yeah, it will be interesting to see if anything will be done about the racism that seems endemic in Madison.
See the The Wisconsin Council on Children and Families’ (WCCF) Race to Equity project (PDF) where these stats come from for more
http://racetoequity.net/
All stats above from 2011.
John Henry
Madison is the most racist place I have ever lived.
I wonder where else she has lived? It would be really funny if she said Atlanta or Charleston or Birmingham. I would get a kick out of that.
White women grab at my naturally styled hair. A man asked me once how I would be celebrating Black History Month.
That's the awesome thing about the South, nobody gives a shit what you are doing for Black History Month. And we felt your hair when we were 6, we don't need to feel it anymore.
I love living in Madison but I do not always feel comfortable here.
Have you tried mayonnaise? White people use mayonnaise. Adopt the local customs and maybe you can find friends in this strange and wonderful land.
The Madisonians need to talk about their Norwegian/Swedish Superior Attitude.
The bottom line is that "minorities" refuse to accept the fact that they are indeed "minorities" and it was white (mainly WASP) europeans who not only largely settled and developed this nation, but established the vast majority of the de facto cultural norms and de jure laws that have made this nation the great nation it is--all based upon the Christian-Judeo ethic/religious sociocultural approach to designing a civil society.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." (Or at least expect the Romans to do as the Romans do,.)
Truth is not racist.
Truth? About disproportional number of crimes committed by Blacks, level of "babies having babies", HIV/AIDS and other STDs and, worst of all, voting for Democrats.
"Let 100 Flowers Bloom" Lefties want you to talk about race so they can then accuse you of racism and get you fired. Classic Alinsky, perfected by Mao.
I know that slavery was wrong.
And Segregation was wrong.
I know that saying the African-Americans have a genetic IQ deficit is wrong.
I know that the African-American birth rate is below replacement level
I know that means the end of the group.
I know African-American women won't speak out against this genocide.
I know Madison liberals won't either.
I know it's easy to criticize the errors of the past such as slavery and hard to criticize the errors of the present such as wiping out the African-Americans through abortion and birth control.
Which inequality?
Unequal outcome? Or unequal opportunity?
Or to put it another way, let's talk about the concept that the racists might have been right all along.
Now, you talk.
The "racism" schtick really gets tiring. As James Taranto keeps saying we have elected a black president; how bad can we really be?
Sheesh, what an asshole.
I have never lived or operated in a place that was more racist.
It's full of white people. Who ask me about my hair. QED. (And if you think most of my anecdotage about the hair thing smells more truthy than true, well, check your privilege!)
A woman once asked to touch my hair, and when I told her no, she got angry at me.
Uh huh. An "older white woman" of the Upper Midwestern persuasion, sub species Madisoniensis, "got angry" because I wouldn't let her exercise her white privilege of "ownership enough over my body to touch my hair if she wanted". Color my credulity strained to the "file: shit that never happened" breaking point.
I don't have the time or energy to teach every ignorant person in Madison how to properly interact with people of color.
Oh, I have faith in you Sasha. Surely berating white people for being white is, as they say, not only a duty but a pleasure. And a place like Madison is, as your comment section attests, full of stupid, cringing white liberals* who'll never tell you to piss off, no matter how much of a pain in the ass you are. This will probably only make you angrier and angrier as time goes on, as it will not alter the unbearable whiteness of Madison, and you'll have to take to construing their ever more abject groveling as super-subtle, more toxic manifestations of meta-privilege.
*E.g., one "Rebecca": "Sasha, thank you for your honest sharing. I'm a white person who just moved back to Madison from New Jersey. The shock of re-entering the sea of white [white people - the horror!] was huge...Thank you for telling white people they can't touch your hair! I'm filled with sadness and shame for participating in Madison's racism." Gack, these people make sunsong look dignified and self-respecting.
I'm more interested in hearing when it will be time to STOP talking about race.
Our very own version of the Maoist struggle session or self-confession session.
It would be interesting to research when and where this creepy stuff started in the U.S. and whose idea it was.
Crack: "Nope - whites started it, they go first."
LOL
Isn't there a thread about trying to have a rational/logical conversation with teenagers?
Ann probably should have included the perpetual adolescent as well in that.
BTW crack, that $100 trillion is on the way!
You should have demanded a % of Moon/Mars exploitable resources while you were at it.
Remember, always set your sights high and don't focus on just getting high.
Dallek, in the second volume of his LBJ bio, points out that in the 1964 presidential primaries George Wallace got more than a more than 1/3 of the Demmie vote.
This was when Wallace was on the tube every night promoting segregation now and forever, standing in the schoolhouse door to physically block blacks from entering.
In Birmingham a church was blown up and dogs had been sicced on marchers. Police attacked other marchers.
And more than a third of Wisconsinites thought this man should be president.
Madison's current racism is not a new problem.
John Henry
Racism anecdote: "A man asked me once how I would be celebrating Black History Month."
I've never asked any black person about Black History Month. I completely ignore it, and try to never talk to black people anyway.
From the article: "But I am going to assume that you don't know that black women are just now starting to wear their hair natural again after centuries of treating it to make it look more white,..."
BS.
I guess this "chick" missed all of the 60's and 70's.
Where I grew up, the 'fro's were out and about everywhere in those days, often big enough for any number of picks to kept securely in place.
The brothers/sisters who showed up with "white hair" were quite formally "instructed" by the mob how that choice was less than acceptable.
What kind of bonehead touches other people's hair?
"talk about race" is a euphemism for open your wallets, and give till it hurts.
" I wrote that Madison is the most racist place I have ever lived. I do not see very many black people on the east side. White women grab at my naturally styled hair. A man asked me once how I would be celebrating Black History Month."
Has the writer never considered that this isn't racism, just boorish behavior? I would never consider doing any such thing, but then I'm not progressive so maybe that's the difference.
So yeah, it will be interesting to see if anything will be done about the racism that seems endemic in Madison.
It ain't just Madison. Wisconsin has plenty of racists. George Wallace received 34% of the Dem primary votes in 1964.
“Our campaign for states’ rights won,” Wallace told the press on primary election night. “We began by shaking the eyeteeth of all those northern liberals in Wisconsin. The noises you hear tonight are the eyeteeth falling out of all the northern liberals in Indiana.”
Probably explains some of that Democratic corossover support for Scott Walker.
Sorun said...
I completely ignore it, and try to never talk to black people anyway.
Shocka!
Original Mike: "Has the writer never considered that this isn't racism, just boorish behavior?"
First of all, this is all pretty much made up.
Really, white people bopping about and just reaching out and touching black folks hair?
In this political climate?
In Madison?
Too funny.
Well, we always knew there was a reason garage likes living there so much. No blacks there to frighten and intimidate him.
Todd said...
Go on, confess. You will feel better...
The voice from the telescreen was still pouring forth its tale of prisoners and booty and slaughter, but the shouting outside had died down a little. The waiters were turning back to their work. One of them approached with the gin bottle. Winston, sitting in a blissful dream, paid no attention as his glass was filled up. He was not running or cheering any longer. He was back in the Ministry of Love, with everything forgiven, his soul white as snow. He was in the public dock, confessing everything, implicating everybody. He was walking down the white-tiled corridor, with the feeling of walking in sunlight, and an armed guard at his back. The longhoped-for bullet was entering his brain.
He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
1984 by George Orwell
"What kind of bonehead touches other people's hair?"
Liberal white women have (in their minds) a parent/child relationship with black people. Affectionately touching a child's hair is a natural thing for a woman to do.
"Wisconsin is the worst state in the union for black children to grow up"
A link is provided but it seems to be a "garage mahal link", i.e. goes nowhere useful. Someone explain please.
It goes here: http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data#WI/2/2/3,4,5,6
I think she's referring a page that points out just 9% of Wisconsin's children are black. Strength in numbers? (Vermont, with only 2%, must be hell on earth...)
@Anglelyne/
"GACK!" indeed...sickening enough to make even the proverbial Mad-Magazine famous "Wretching Jackal" wretch all over again...and again...and again..
Not going to happen any time soon. The biggest problem is the term "racist." A lot more people will discuss "prejudice" and "bigotry" than will discuss racism. But the term is too big a weapon for anyone who has the power to wield it to give up - even if it really doesn't work that well. It's sort of a defensive weapon in the way a nuke is - a powerful defense.
Jonah Goldberg wrote "Liberal Fascism." Good book. Complete failure in starting an interesting conversation with liberals. (Though the title probably helped him sell a lot of copies.) There may be liberals who are willing to discuss their penchant for collectivism and statism. A conversation about fascism never happened - and isn't going to. We will have a conversation about fascism before we have a conversation about racism.
Wayworn Wanderer:
Someone who does not respect personal boundaries. If there is a real need to touch someone, short of a medical emergency, the proper course is to ask permission.
It means, for example, going to Forest Hill Cemetery, where one of President Thomas Jefferson's half-black sons, Eston Hemings, is buried. Ask yourself why he isn't buried at Monticello, and then ask yourself why his presence in Madison isn't something you already knew about.
I cannot name any of Jefferson's children, of any racial make-up, nor could I tell you where any were buried. Off the top of my head I could only think of the burial place of one famous American ( Grant, in Grant's tomb. Don't ask me where Grant's tomb is. )
Now I'm supposed to go to the cemetery to seek out the graves of people who are famous only because of their father, and I'm only supposed to do it because of the color of their skin.
And I'm the racist.
"Nope - whites started it, they go first."
Nope the Egyptians started it and they were, before the Greek occupation, pretty black. Look at the tomb paintings. Do you know what the tomb paintings are ?
Have you started Any Chua's book yet ?
To the reeducation camps, comrades!
Revenant:
Perhaps the topic of conversation is stimulated by their environment. The people I know prefer to talk about their family, hobbies, arts, weather, and similar. I cannot relate to people who are obsessed with incidental features or are trapped by their past.
This national "conversation" is alien in the parties I attend. It is alien in the public sphere. At least until certain politicians and the usually assembly of opportunists raise their ugly heads, people will be people are people. It's really not that complicated. Basic rules of decorum apply.
New Republican approach to race relations:
Get Over It, Bitch.
For an example of child-like logic and reasoning skills, I give you garage:
Garage: "Wisconsin has plenty of racists. George Wallace received 34% of the Dem primary votes in 1964" and "Probably explains some of that Democratic corossover support for Scott Walker."
In garages mind. the percentage of votes in the dem primary of 1964 correlates to potential democrat cross-over voting for Scott Walker in 2010/12.
Of course, how can I chide garage for such infantile thinking when Ann herself has engaged in that very illogical leap?
Must be something in the water in Madison.
As well as few blacks.
If more blacks lived there, as crack can tell you, the whites would be "smarter" somehow. (the mechanism is never fully explained)
ACK !! gonna START talking about race ?! where have wisconsinites BEEN for the past coupla hundred years ? have i accidentally wandered onto 'the onion' site 'cause ya gotta be kiddin' me.
Go read her blog. The woman is cuckoo bonkers.
On hair: Part of her "naturally styled hair" is bleached blonde, unlike those "centuries" of race-traitors treating it look more white.
"I stand in my small box and watch as almost exclusively white people swarm around me, pushing each other to get to the organic juices."
This is why I don't shop at the Co-op. Too much violence.
Was this filmed in Madison? Maybe a Garage/somefeller/ARM/Crack Mutual Admiration Society meeting perhaps? Asking for a friend.
Madison Meeting of Progressive Minds for the Betterment of Polite Society
Howard said...
New Republican approach to race relations:
Howard, unless you have voluntarily relinquished your job to a more deserving black, whose ancestors graves you are standing on for your crack-described "fake" success, we really don't need to hear from you.
Thanks very much.
Oh, and thanks for the fake "B****" quote.
I think we all know that garage will be cutting and pasting that within minutes as more "proof" of right-wing racism.
All the while he cowers in his lilly-white enclave. Bravely no doubt.
Very bravely.
Hey, they update answered my question. Thanks! I've been reading for 10 years but just recently jumped into the comments pool.
Thanks, John Christopher. I really enjoyed your 1:19 comment. Good way to frame the possible viewpoints (though I would never use the metaphor of "hanging" with respect to anything that has a racial element).
So the limousine-liberals of Madison,with a population that is 80 per cent white, are ready to discuss race. Gimme a flippin' break.
There were people who held slaves and their descendants are awful. (Alabama, Mississippi) There were people who segregated and they and theirs are even more awful (Boston, Washington DC., Detroit). But if you want downright no-good, real true awful go to Madison Wisconsin and talk to a liberal, says this African-American liberal blogger.
I'll drink to that.
One of my faint hopes for the future is that liberals will consume themselves in the manner of their progenitor, the French Revolution.
Will no one rid me of these mobs of white racists asking me how I'll spend BHM?
Couldn't they have just broken out the hoses and nooses? Some german shepherds to the face? Much better than having one's hair touched.
In other news, apparently older white women are racist against young white men, because both of these things have happened to me! I tremble with shame and ancient hatreds when I think of the time that old lady poked my mohawk!How can I ever be equal in a society where that can happen? I will forever be a second-class citizen. Don't they know that we teenage boys with ~5% First Peoples blood are retaking our hairstyles after centuries of dominance by the white man? OUR HAIR OUR BODIES!
Nope - whites started it, they go first.
Fuck you. Where is your evidence that White people practiced slavery first?
Slavery goes back to the dawn of history...it probably existed before there were any White people.
Howard:
The "new approach" is the American conservative approach. It's really not that complicated. Perhaps some people remain ignorant in their "new approach", which was defeated through a tremendous bloodletting.
The conservative approach, which crippled the old/leftist approach, is to respect individual dignity, and recognize intrinsic value. The policies of "promote the general Welfare" are established through a reconciliation process, not from a necessity to placate the masses in order to exploit democratic leverage.
The Left as a matter of principle and tradition, not exception or circumstance, ignores the former and denies the latter, which ensured that they would commit unprecedented violations of human rights, and leaves them vulnerable to committing, if even unwittingly, the same transgressions against individuals and humanity.
I suppose it would be racist to disbelieve or belittle her unbelievable and insignificant anecdotes about hair touching and Black History Month. I'm fine with that.
This is not a liberal "getting after" liberals. This is a black woman asserting that liberals aren't "non-racist" enough where blacks are concerned.
Why does the phrase "self-serving" come to mind.
> Nope - whites started it, they go first.
What are we allowed to say?
> Ask yourself why he isn't buried at Monticello,
I didn't bury him and had nothing to do with the decision on where he was buried, so why should I ask myself that?
> and then ask yourself why his presence in Madison isn't something you already knew about.
I know where four people are buried, all relatives (and very few of them). If I'm racist for not knowing where Jefferson's black children are buried, am I also racist for not knowing where Washington, Lincoln, and FDR are buried?
Would someone please tell me where are all these white women who grab/touch the hair of black women they don't know or have just met?
I live in very diverse SoCal ... I've working in places where my pallor has made me a minority. I have NEVER witnessed this behavior. Ever.
The line that black women "just now" wearing their hair "natural" is a crock unless this article was written in the 60s or 70s.
Sheesh.
If you ask to touch a black stranger's hair, I'm going to assume that you're a liberal who doesn't really want to touch her hair, but just wants to provide her with an anecdote about how subtle racism is in Madison.
From the lady's blog:
It means, for example, going to Forest Hill Cemetery, where one of President Thomas Jefferson's half-black sons, Eston Hemings, is buried. Ask yourself why he isn't buried at Monticello, and then ask yourself why his presence in Madison isn't something you already knew about.
Easton Hemmings was Sally Hemmings last born child. There is no doubt that Easton's father was white, or that he had an ancestor (likely but not conclusively his father) who had a Y chromosome from the male line that included Thomas Jefferson.
Whether the male Jefferson who fathered Easton was Thomas Jefferson is unknown and unknowable. Easton's descendants are the only line descending from Hemmings that have been DNA tested. Because Jefferson had no white sons, there is no available DNA test from direct descendants of Jefferson. Descendants of Jefferson's uncle (his father's brother) are the source of the Jefferson DNA being compared to the DNA of Easton's descendants.
In short there is no DNA evidence that Jefferson fathered Easton. He could be the father, but there were several other Jefferson males who are also candidates. Most likely is Randolph Jefferson, who was known to be at Montecello nine months before Easton's birth, and who also visited Montecello 6 days after Easton was born. There is other evidence that points to Randolph as the father but none of it is conclusive.
The foundation that runs Montecello in 2000 adopted an official "position" that Jefferson was the father of all of Sally Hemmings children. This despite the fact that there is no evidence of possible paternity for the other 5, and (if I recall correctly) some of the Hemmings lines can expressly be eliminated as descending from Jefferson.
I do not strongly fault Ms. Debevec-McKenny for stating without reservation that Easton was Jefferson's son. It is a common error, born of a political agenda to be sure, but very common. However, it is an error. Or, if made with knowledge of the actual facts, it is a falsehood.
White or black, we tend to believe what we want to believe. This is my contribution today to the national discussion on race.
I've always wondered why the dip-shits that come in here trumpeting this claim "but you live in lily-white Madison!", like they instantly owned the thread or something. Why? What am I supposed to be owned on? That I live in a white state/city and that I'm not "around blacks" and can't possibly fathom what racists are getting called out on? Great win, wingtards.
First, admit to yourself that you have probably said something to somebody that they interpreted as racist.
Yup.
It doesn't mean that you are a racist.
Mighty white of you to acknowledge that. Oops.
But if you think that you have no prejudices about people because of their race, or that you're too good of a person to have ever said anything racist, you're wrong
You mean sort of like judging all white people based on a handful of ignorant boors who wanted to feel your hair?
You know, like most people I do my best to not give offense to people unless I deliberately mean to give offense. Sometimes what I say gets taken the wrong way, and that's unfortunate. If I get a chance to, I apologize. But sometimes I run up against someone who is bound and determined to take offense and pokes through what I say or write determined to find a word or phrase that can be twisted into something that if you squint a bit might possibly be construed as offensive. Not much can be done about a person like that except to shrug and press on. But if they want to know how come they didn't get that promotion, well, bosses, subordinates, and peers don't like to be told we're all a bunch of racists. Ranting your way into a promotion doesn't work all that well for people not named Sharpton.
And yes, Crack, I really do mean to deliberately insult you. You picked the fight with me, not me with you.
Sasha Debevec-McKenney: I wrote that Madison is the most racist place I have ever lived. I do not see very many black people on the east side.
Do you see Indians? There are thousands of Indians around here, but no black people (and few whites). Who are the racists?
White women grab at my naturally styled hair.
I doubt it.*
A man asked me once how I would be celebrating Black History Month.
Oh, the horror...
If you ask to touch my hair, I'm not going to assume you're part of the KKK.
*I was right, they don't grab. The KKK part - how generous of her!
I have a big afro, and the front part is bleached blonde.
Translation of entire article:
"I go out of my way to look weird and attract attention, and then get upset when people look at me. And, BTW, there's no real anti-black racism from white people in Madison."
"One of my faint hopes for the future is that liberals will consume themselves in the manner of their progenitor, the French Revolution."
I understand your hope, but remember an awful lot of eggs got guillotined to make that omelette.
What kind of bonehead touches other people's hair?
A blond woman in China said Chinese women behind her on the bus would often touch her hair. They didn't believe it was real.
What truly impresses me about this article is the sheer amount of anger! and butthurt!! this woman puts into stewing over these imagined slights from generally well-meaning but clueless people.
I concur with Orig Mike. Let us not conflate rudeness with racism.
Thankfully, I'm out of town at the moment, so if the "conversation" (read: hectoring) could be done before I return at sunset on Sunday, I'd appreciate it.
John: "And more than a third of Wisconsinites thought this man (Wallace) should be president."
That should be "Wisconsin Democrats" who garage has thoughtfully converted to crossover (aka "near Republican") votes for Walker.
Never mind the history of racism among redneck Democrats who are alive and well and ... still ... Democrats.
Proving conclusively the every white woman in Madison is a racist.
In Madison, somebody says "hey racist" and everyone looks in unison.
Of course Madison is racist it is filled with Leftists.
"First, admit to yourself that you have probably said something to somebody that they interpreted as racist. It doesn't mean that you are a racist."
Hey, wait a minute. Yes, it does mean I am a racist. That's what I am. I'm a racist. I have noticed that black people are violent and unproductive. I'm not sure why they are like that. There is a lot of evidence that it is genetic, but 70% illegitimacy probably doesn't bring out the best in anybody, either. Anyway, why they are such stupid, violent, criminal assholes is their problem, not mine, as long as I don't have to live around them. So I don't want to live around them.
Now, why is that a problem? It's not like any reasonable black person would want me around. What's the big deal here?
"But I am going to assume that you don't know that black women are just now starting to wear their hair natural again after centuries of treating it to make it look more white, or that black women have had the least amount of control over their own bodies, historically. In other words, you don't know that we're a little touchy about the things on our bodies we can finally control."
***************
Is it just me, or does this passage read as if the writer is hundreds of years old? As if she personally lived through slavery and is just NOW getting to style her hair the way she wants?
I have a different theory: her MOTHER had issues with the way she wore her hair, not society at large.
And the story about the white woman asking to touch her hair, then getting angry when she couldn't, sounds to me as if she was approached by a street person or someone with mental illness - what other kind of person would get angry over not being able to violate personal space?
The point is that the phony lily-white limousine-liberals do not have the moral authority to call out the "racists". Stupid libtards.
"I'd rather stick out and make them notice me, make them uncomfortable."
**************
OK, got it - she needs attention. Whenever I find a woman with an inordinate need for attention, I usually find a childhood with lots of siblings competing for scarce parental attention.
"I recently posted a short essay to my personal blog about my everyday life in Madison as a young black woman. I wrote that Madison is the most racist place I have ever lived."
"Madison has to prove itself as liberal and progressive right here and right now... It means being absolutely outraged that Wisconsin is the worst state in the union for black children to grow up, even though your children are white."
Interesting article. Isn't Madison dominated by lefties? Aren't lefties the ones who are always calling other people racist? This lady says that lefty land is the very worst racist city she has ever lived! Interesting article indeed.
You gotta be shittin me.
Speaking of graves, that reminded me of this one that I walked by most every day for 4 years.
Why should we all "talk about race"? In Maoist China (and present day North Korea?), this was called a self-criticism session. Participants (that is, all Chinese) had to come up with things to confess -- nothing too dramatic, but if they didn't confess enough personal failings, they'd fall under suspicion for hiding things.
When we're told we need Conversations About Race, we're being told we need to engage in self-criticism.
donald:
What they fail to understand is the general rule of decency is to treat others as you have them treat you. Instead, they treat others with different, selective rules according to narrow-minded classes which the create for political expediency. Despite their efforts, there has still been positive progress. People always find a way to ignore these purposeful obstacles.
garage - uber liberal Madison is virulently racist. Own it.
I wish to follow up on John Henry's good set of stats. The clearest evidence that "racism" is manufactured in America is the vastly different situation of real African immigrants here, even those for whom English is not a native language -- for them it is a welcoming land of incredible opportunity. Haitians, Jamaicans, Barbadians all say the same thing.
The problem is not skin color, since the immigrants are many shades darker than the 'victimized" paper-bag set of African-Americans who squall so loudly.
The problem is the profoundly dysfunctional values and attitudes prevailing amongst a lot of urban American "blacks". These are the same values and attitudes common in people we call 'white trash' -- inability to delay gratification, de-valuing education and hard work, victim mentality, always blaming others (of different skin color) for their problems, and so on.
If you could break out the statistics quoted to compare Black Trash and White Trash I suspect you'd find the numbers would be frighteningly close.
The problem is bad values and attitudes, not skin color. When the Sudanese refugees with whom I've been working for ten years describe their #1 concern as "Help me get my kids away from being influenced by 'these people' around here." ... we are not really talking about skin color, are we.
I am not racist and I have the proof. I took the Ancestry genetic history spit test and came out 3 to 7% African and the rest Scotch-Irish so all you white people can kiss my mixed butt.
8)
Trey
Why all the recent interest in racism in this country? After all, with the election of the first half-black President, and his nomination of a light skinned black as AG, you would think that Blacks had been redeemed in this country.
I think the answer though goes to the Blacks position in the Democratic Party. They were instrumental in electing and reelecting Obama, and, hence, maintaining the Dem control of the Senate. And, yet, what have they gotten for their support? For all the votes they delivered? Sure, they got Pigford, but that was small potatoes compared to the amounts skimmed from the public coffers by other Dem constituent groups and cronies. Heck, GE did better than Blacks, in terms of crony capitalism and graft.
Yes, they did get more generous welfare, in the guise of more and more programs designed to help the "poor" - expanded Medicaid, ObamaPhones, more generous Food Stamps, etc., but these programs were never really designed to help Blacks in particular, but rather the "poor", where Blacks are disproportionately represented.
So, this "discussion" about race can be viewed as two things. First, it allows the Dem leadership to assure their Black supporters that they take their concerns seriously. Won't do anything about them except talk about them. But, they do take the concerns of Blacks seriously very seriously, and thus the "serious" talk about racism. I think making this more urgent on the parts of Blacks, is that the country seems to be turning away from them, and figuring that they have had plently of help, and now is the time to man up, and take charge of their own lives and own destinies. Note the response this week to the Supreme Court decision refusing the require that the Michigan ban of AA be overridden. Justice Sotomeyer was roundly ridiculed for her, frankly silly, dissent pushing the classic progressive arguments for AA. Special quotas in the form of AA were one way that Blacks were rewarded for their support of Dems and their candidates. This is disappearing. So, even more incentive for Dems to pander to Blacks to keep them voting Democratic.
And, that is the other reason for the "discussion" - we have an election in a bit over six months where control of the Senate may switch, and Black votes are absolutely required to keep those seats in the Dem caucus, and Harry Reid as Majority Leader. Talking about racism is sure to crank up the Black vote for Dem candidates, by cranking up their outrage at the rest of society (and, in particular, White Republicans), while appeasing them that the Dems at least care about them.
In short, election politics. Pure and simple.
"Tell you what..when we start talking about Black racism, and Asian racism, and Hispanic racism...then we can deal with White racism too."
Crack: Nope - whites started it, they go first.
Are you really this stupid?
"Wisconsin is the worst state in the union for black children to grow up"
Well, let's face it, like most northern States blacks are living in larger cities. In WI that's Madison and Milwaukee. What do these places have in common between them, and with other northern cities.
They are all run, and have been for decase, by Democrats. They're taught by the most "progressive" of "progressive".
Hey blacks, there will never be the end of racism, and your lot in life will never improve,as long as you are tethered to Democrats.
The problem is the profoundly dysfunctional values and attitudes prevailing amongst a lot of urban American "blacks". These are the same values and attitudes common in people we call 'white trash' -- inability to delay gratification, de-valuing education and hard work, victim mentality, always blaming others (of different skin color) for their problems, and so on.
Let me add to that, teenaged pregnancy, fatherless childrearing, and juvenile male violence. That is the part of it that makes the cycle reinforcing, and makes those caught in it ever more desperate. John Edwards talked about Two Americas (in his mansion, across the street from a trailer park). And, thanks to progressive policies really started by LBJ and his War on Poverty, this is getting worse, with the poor living in violent inner city ghettos, and the rest of us, who don't. It just turns out that American Blacks, who were descended from slaves, make up a disproportionate percentage of the poor living in inner city ghettos. Part of it is historical, but I think, from comments made by LBJ, that some of it was intentional on the part of top Dems. These reconstructed racists (from the party of slave owners, Jim Crow, and the KKK) have turned Blacks into their most loyal constituents by providing them welfare, but also guaranteed Black failure at the same time. The question still, is whether this perpetuation of Black inferiority and dependence by Dems through breakup of Black families, etc. was intentional or accidental, and for some, like LBJ, it looks more and more intentional.
It means, for example, going to Forest Hill Cemetery, where one of President Thomas Jefferson's half-black sons, Eston Hemings, is buried. Ask yourself why he isn't buried at Monticello, and then ask yourself why his presence in Madison isn't something you already knew about.
Hi Easton. [kicks rock]. Look, I know you are dead and all that, but I wanted to clear up a few things:
I have no fricken clue who you are or why you matter. Your "legacy" is that your mother was a really good fuck. So I guess thats something.
Margit: When the Sudanese refugees with whom I've been working for ten years describe their #1 concern as "Help me get my kids away from being influenced by 'these people' around here." ... we are not really talking about skin color, are we.
Margit knocks it out of the park, clearing the bases. Thread over, game over.
@ Margit,
Well said. My line has ever been that there is no structural racism problem, but a very serious structural culture problem. There are individual racists, and there always will be, of all races. But the real problem is that even if there were structural racism, it would be counterproductive to the advancement of minorities to rely on that as a psychological crutch. Witness Crack's constant refrain of how blacks can't ever be expected to achieve until white people give them lots of something. Even if it were true (and it isn't), telling black people that is the worst thing you could ever do to them.
Why all the recent interest in racism in this country?
It has nothing to do with a black president being elected, does it? NAHHHHH.
"Oh please, we all know who are the originators of racism on the planet and it ain't minorities.."
Apparently it is a commonly held belief that if only White People had never happened, there would be no racism and the whole world would live in peace and harmony.
"Talking about racism is sure to crank up the Black vote for Dem candidates, by cranking up their outrage at the rest of society (and, in particular, White Republicans), while appeasing them that the Dems at least care about them."
Actually, the political significance of "racism" is that it splits the white vote, not that it unites the black vote. Whites are, after all, the majority race in this country. If they voted as a block, the way blacks do, they would run the country. And if they ever wake up, and realize that the problems blacks have are due to the way blacks behave, and have nothing to do with "white racism", we will run the country.
My suspicion is, that as the white majority erodes, white solidarity will strengthen. When we are just one more minority, it will not be so easy to make large numbers of white people feel guilty about the dead-end pathology called "black culture". Particularly as, more and more, we are the victims of that pathology.
Garage says,
Why all the recent interest in racism in this country?
It has nothing to do with a black president being elected, does it? NAHHHHH
Yes, Garage, it has everything to do with Obama's election. There is no way a half-bright joker, who never held an honest job in his life, would have been elected President, if large numbers of whites had not voted against their own interests to prove they are "not racist".
Bruce Hayden,
"The question still, is whether this perpetuation of Black inferiority and dependence by Dems through breakup of Black families, etc. was intentional or accidental, and for some, like LBJ, it looks more and more intentional."
BWAAAA-HA-HA! Re-writing history we even have in recordings. Incredible.
Man, the idea of their own innocence - but not the weird mix of ignorance and paranoia demonstrated above - is strong in whites. Such phenomena as "teenaged pregnancy, fatherless childrearing, and juvenile male violence" can all be found in the annals of slavery, but still, you don't get it, pretending "America" as we know it popped out of nowhere after 400 years of white nonsense like, well, re-writing history.
As we hear of others moving, in liberal San Francisco, the dot com boom has turned the descendants of slavery into the streets. Rents are so high (a friend mentioned a place going for $8,001 a month) they can't afford to live anywhere and can't leave. People who were formally in the projects. I see them, some gone mad, gathered at bus stops and train station intrances, the only public spaces they're "tolerated". Just like slaves were at the end of the Civil War. And do remember:
It only took whites - some of whom are very proud of their family's role in it - 12 years to reverse what the Civil War was supposed to be about.
Then came 100 years of white terror.
I give LBJ credit for knowing that as literal, historical, documented fact.
The rest of you - true to the nature of the "American" culture you're from - suffer from being, generally, ignorant (because your history was hidden from you) and cruel (what the history hides) almost to the point of being generally sociopathic (how many conservative whites can talk, here, without showing a lick of compassion? I guess we'll find out) while under a wicked state of amnesia about almost every bit of it.
Fen,
"I have no fricken clue who you are or why you matter. Your "legacy" is that your mother was a really good fuck. So I guess thats something."
Between Fen and Cliven Bundy, I have NO IDEA why the Right isn't more attractive to blacks.
tim in vermont,
"Apparently it is a commonly held belief that if only White People had never happened, there would be no racism and the whole world would live in peace and harmony."
Well, in Othello, no one was fucking with him because of his skin, so whites started doing *something* after 1600, but what?
Knowing THAT should be what keeps whites busy these days.
It's all about YOU, baby,...
Jupiter,
"Whites are, after all, the majority race in this country. If they voted as a block, the way blacks do, they would run the country."
The suggestion is they never have before, when the truth was, that's what got us into this mess - for most of the history of this country.
"And if they ever wake up, and realize that the problems blacks have are due to the way blacks behave, and have nothing to do with "white racism", we will run the country."
This guy forgot his hood.
"My suspicion is, that as the white majority erodes, white solidarity will strengthen. When we are just one more minority, it will not be so easy to make large numbers of white people feel guilty about the dead-end pathology called "black culture". Particularly as, more and more, we are the victims of that pathology."
Again with the unasked-for "guilt" - do whites have a natural aversion to feeling like humans or is it taught? They keep going on about how they're not going to feel guilty - when no one's asked for it - it's just weird. It's real simple, guys:
You've got citizens the country's wronged and it's got to be made right. The first try failed. Not for all, but many. I prefer the direct approach this time. Reparations. Let people live their lives and not be put into the situation I see here. If they fail, at least they'll bear it honestly.
Where the white terror of un-asked-for guilt comes into it, I don't know,...
Crack will always be a failure living in poverty, even if he gets the occasional handout of links to his shitty website or worthless radio show nobody listens to from one of those racist Madison honkys.
if large numbers of whites had not voted against their own interests to prove they are "not racist".
Did Jews and Asians that Obama carried widely vote for Obama to prove they weren't racists?
Crack
OK. You want reparations of 100 trillion dollars? That number as I recall was based on a wage scale of $7.00 per hour starting in the 17th century. That would have worked out for every slave to be about triple what the President of the US made annually in Jefferson's time. Then, that preposterous annual income is given an interest rate of 6% over the course of the centuries to arrive at the 100 trillion number which remarkably works out to $2.5 million dollars for every black in America.
Not going to happen. I can ask for you, but I think the answer will be no.
Crack
OK. You want reparations of 100 trillion dollars? That number as I recall was based on a wage scale of $7.00 per hour starting in the 17th century. That would have worked out for every slave to be about triple what the President of the US made annually in Jefferson's time. Then, that preposterous annual income is given an interest rate of 6% over the course of the centuries to arrive at the 100 trillion number which remarkably works out to $2.5 million dollars for every black in America.
Not going to happen. I can ask for you, but I think the answer will be no.
President-Mom-Jeans,
"Crack will always be a failure living in poverty, even if he gets the occasional handout of links to his shitty website or worthless radio show nobody listens to from one of those racist Madison honkys."
I've got a job, a radio show, a recording project, and a band - three weeks after arriving back in SF.
Please, elaborate on me some more, it's fun.
Like watching Clive Bundy,...
"I can ask for you, but I think the answer will be no."
Even if the answer is yes, he'll be back complaining in 2 weeks.
"Reparations."
No motivated reasoning possible there.
Reparations were demanded of Germany after the first world war, which famously brought us the Second World War.
I won't "whitesplain" further, even if I think it is likely that you will take this as a threat, it is not meant that way. It is something to think about.
"I've got a job, a radio show, a recording project, and a band - three weeks after arriving back in SF."
Glad to hear that!
And just what are all these things paying you? I'm sure your band will be taking off with mainstream chart topping success any day now, and those royalty dollars will be streaming in.
Although since you claim to be so successful now, perhaps you can stop your whining for reparations.
"I've got a job, a radio show, a recording project, and a band - three weeks after arriving back in SF."
I'm sure you are making Limbaugh money off that radio gig. Don't be some humble Crack, enlighten us to your newfound prosperity.
A recording project you say? That is a guaranteed moneymaker, you should go down to the bank immediately and put your recording project money as collateral, I'm sure they will find it suitable to leverage you into large amounts of liquid cash. If not, they are obviously racist, amirite?
Be honest Crack, is the reason that you moved to San Fran for your career in giving handjobs in a dark alley? You did claim to have a "job."
Ann Althouse,
"On this hair-touching issue, remember the famous picture of the little boy who asked to touch Obama's hair."
Another recorded bit of history, re-written, but how do these guys come at it? They lie to themselves, that this is normal behavior, like blacks are also dying to touch white's hair:
Saint Croix,
"We felt your hair when we were 6, we don't need to feel it anymore."
What's wrong with you?
Anglelyne,
"If you think most of my anecdotage about the hair thing smells more truthy than true, well, check your privilege!"
Check your privilege, Anglelyne!
hawkeyedjb,
"A woman asked to touch her hair,...Madison must be paradise."
Unless you're just trying to be a person - anyone asked to touch YOUR hair lately?
Drago,
"First of all, this is all pretty much made up.
Really, white people bopping about and just reaching out and touching black folks hair?"
I'll stop with you:
You know why,...
Ann Althouse,
"Glad to hear that!"
Me, too. But I've also got a 2PM appointment at a free clinic for a weird rash, I assume stress-related, that's erupted on my face. Discoloration, flakey, broken skin.
The torture never stops.
And that ObamaCare idea makes more sense every day,...
"Another recorded bit of history, re-written…"
I take it you're referring to the fact that the boy did not ask to touch Obama's hair but asked whether "my hair is just like yours," and Obama invited him to touch it, saying “Why don’t you touch it and see for yourself?” He bowed all the way down so the boy could touch it, and when the boy hesitated, Obama said: “Touch it, dude!”
So it seems that there is some kind of a thing about hair touching, but we should make the distinction between touching where the person with the hair invites the touching (after the other person only asks about what the hair is like) and also the distinction between when the curiosity about the hair is whether it's the same or whether it's different.
It's really weird how important hair is to people! There seems to be something primal wrapped up in our feelings about hair.
Why didn't the musical "Hair" transform all the negative emotion around hair into positive energy, man?
… long, straight, curly, fuzzy, snaggy, shaggy, ratty, matty, oily, greasy, fleecy, shining, gleaming, streaming, flaxen, waxen, knotted, polka-dotted, twisted, beaded, braided, powdered, flowered, and confettied, tangled, tangled, spangled, and spaghettied…
Only three weeks in San Francisco and already got a rash? You have been busy.
I haven't laughed this hard at one of your postings since you told us about your mother.
What are you doing at the free clinic? I would think that either your Obamacare (or the equally "successful" Covered California) would have you at the top hospitals with no waiting and free of charge?
Wait, you just were telling us how successful you are, why the free clinic?
San Francisco must be just as racist as Madison, keeping Crack down. Are they ready to have the talk about it there?
Sorry to hear about the skin problem...
President-Mom-Jeans,
"And just what are all these things paying you?"
Now THAT's changing your tune! Trying a new angle, are we? And isn't it also a regular question, posed to whites, here? Boy, white entitlement is something else. Really goes to your heads.
"I'm sure your band will be taking off with mainstream chart topping success any day now, and those royalty dollars will be streaming in."
No, you said I'll "always be a failure living in poverty". Keep it in mind, as a way to judge yourself.
"Although since you claim to be so successful now, perhaps you can stop your whining for reparations."
Because individual success makes a crime disappear, right?
You're a silly man,...
A penchant for pedantry seems to be a prerequisite for Madisonian residency.
President-Mom-Jeans,
"I'm sure you are making Limbaugh money off that radio gig. Don't be some humble Crack, enlighten us to your newfound prosperity."
Boy, you ARE changing your tune now, aren't you? How low will you go?
"A recording project you say? That is a guaranteed moneymaker, you should go down to the bank immediately and put your recording project money as collateral, I'm sure they will find it suitable to leverage you into large amounts of liquid cash. If not, they are obviously racist, emirate?"
Any crumb will do, won't it? You just can't see yourself.
"Be honest Crack, is the reason that you moved to San Fran for your career in giving handjobs in a dark alley? You did claim to have a "job.""
You poor, poor man,...
President-Mom-Jeans,
"Only three weeks in San Francisco and already got a rash? You have been busy."
Shouldn't that be "lazy"? You know, with my "bad culture" and all?
"I haven't laughed this hard at one of your postings since you told us about your mother."
Yes, she died. Hilarious.
"What are you doing at the free clinic? I would think that either your Obamacare (or the equally "successful" Covered California) would have you at the top hospitals with no waiting and free of charge?"
I just got here. Haven't signed up locally.
"Wait, you just were telling us how successful you are, why the free clinic?"
Did I say how "successful" I am or, like Bruce Hayden, isn't this more of that re-writing history I was talking about whites engaging in? My personal history, even.
"San Francisco must be just as racist as Madison, keeping Crack down. Are they ready to have the talk about it there?"
You've never been here, have you?
Enjoy the rash.
I'm sure it has no relation to your newfound "job."
Rashes are racist.
I had a black professor at the University of Alabama. She had lived in Chicago many years. She said she came back to Alabama because the racial climate was better. She said that in Alabama, white people might say that they don't like blacks, but they love all the ones they know. Up north, she said, whites claim to love the black race, but they don't like or respect any of us.
President-Mom-Jeans,
"Rashes are racist."
And it takes one to know one,...
garage mahal said...
if large numbers of whites had not voted against their own interests to prove they are "not racist".
Did Jews and Asians that Obama carried widely vote for Obama to prove they weren't racists?
I don't know, Garage. Would it bother you if people called you racist? Would you try to prove them wrong?
Crackster,
People frequently discuss the ruin of Detroit as if it were something terrible that happened to a bunch of black people. The reality is that Detroit was once a very wealthy city, and that wealth was owned by white people. Blacks seized that wealth. They mugged the white citizens of Detroit. They drove them out, by rioting and street crime. If they paid, they paid pennies on the dollar. The wealth of Detroit was stolen from white people by black people, just as surely as the Nazis stole the property of the German Jews. They then proceeded to destroy what they had stolen, by arson, political corruption, and mostly by simple fecklessness and neglect. Like a kid who steals a Porsche, but can't drive a stick shift. There it sits, wrapped around a tree, while the ambulance comes to patch him up so he can do it again.
Reparations indeed.
Crack Says;
"This guy forgot his hood."
Yes, but not my 'hood.
My point, Crackster, is that blacks are a small minority, and getting smaller. The only political importance blacks have, at the national level, is due to the ability of the Democrats to paint their white opponents as horrible people who do horrible things -- "racists"!
The truth of the matter is that there are more cattle in the US than blacks, and they contribute more to the economy. So, I'm glad you have found a job, I wish you all the best, and I would be delighted to hear that you have grown rich and are paying taxes, like I do. But I don't feel responsible for any problems you may be having.
And by the way, about that $8,100/month rent in SF -- I understand you could buy several entire city blocks for that amount in Detroit. Of course, you might have to live in a bad neighborhood.
Crack: "I'll stop with you:
You know why,..."
Yes I do.
Because you are full of crap and have no where else to go with this particular line of BS.
It's clear enough.
San Francisco
Tried to build a hotel there in the late 1970s, on the edge of the Tenderloin. Parking lot employing 6 people. Our plan was for a hotel to employ 300. The Rev. cecil Wiliams of the Glide Memorial Church became a friend and something of an ally but he too was overwhelmed by the demands the city and the local grevience groups applied. Project abandoned.
The truth of the matter is that there are more cattle in the US than blacks, and they contribute more to the economy
Matching Crack's racism with your own hardly advances your position.
Crack Emcee:
"Nope - whites started it, they go first."
Dude. Get serious. "Us" vs. "Not Us" started about the time that Ugg figured out how to make axes and spear points out of flint. You go anywhere in the world - including wherever you live - and you'll find people who claim not to like other people based on race, regardless of what races we're talking about or how many centuries local history goes back.
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