I think she expected something that would be at least a little fun, but instead it became a downward spiral of doom. Witness Nancy's nervous tics, jewelry rattling, and her go-to phrase "There's no excuse":
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Democrats, some advice:
If you want to argue that government can do things better than the private sector, you should insure that you actually make sure it does that.
"Not my responsibility" is WHY the government doesn't do anything well.
Because nothing is ever anybody's fault.
She's not used to getting tough, fair questions. Liberals are soft thinkers because they are not used to having to defend their views. I like Jon Stewart. He and Jay Leno are by far the toughest questioners liberals will talk to.
I almost respect Stewart here because he SUPPORTS this and seems upset that they fucked it up so spectacularly.
I don't respect Stewart because he still doesn't realize that this is a feature of centralized planning and not a bug due to the "wrong people" managing it.
You thought Stewart was tough? I thought he let her off very easy. Where were the follow-up questions about her former staff members becoming lobbyists? About how the health care law that she dragooned her House Democrats to pass has a ton of unintended consequences? She acknowledged that the health care website was flawed. Big effing deal.
Sorry, I can't watch Stewart. No clowns, please.
Nancy obviously suffers from early onset of dementia.
It is not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.
But in this case, it sure is fun to watch!
"I almost respect Stewart here because he SUPPORTS this and seems upset that they fucked it up so spectacularly."
But why do those on the left love the affordable care act so? If you want to provide health care insurance (which is not the same as health care) to the poor/uninsured (two sets of people which only partially overlap) then why construct this Rube Goldberg contraption?
Wouldn't means tested vouchers and the establishment of high risk pools along with deregulation that allows young healthy people to purchase the catastrophic care insurance that they actually need be more reasonable.
Oh, thats right. Its about extracting money from the young and giving it to the old.
So Stewart is mad because the Democrat party leadership is unable to pull off the con.
It is odd that the Democrats - and Stewart himself - do not see how subversive he is to their foundational beliefs.
The thought running through her mind when confronted by these questions coming from the likes of Stewart was that this is going to be a long mid-term election campaign.
And this while she could still get away with imputing all the problems to the functionality of the website alone.
I think he sees it.
It's possible that the Obamacare debacle has made people around him more cynical, as it's costing them money, and how can they crank out comedy every day the way they do and not bring cynical edge to subject?
Even if they hit conservatives every time they can, 5 times as much as they hit Democrats, they've got to turn to Democratic screwups and hypocrisy some of the time, and when they do, they need to generate the comic material they can.
That has to affect you after a while.
Pelosi is mad.
No. The thoughts running to her mind, if any, was more like "What's he talking about? I do not understand this!"
Kept waiting for her to threaten to throw Stewart over the balcony.
John Stewart and The Daily Show bear an incredible amount of responsibility for the mindset that politics is just another form of TV soap opera to be exploited for its entertainment value. It's what they do every day.
For him, of all people, to feign indignation that the process is not taken seriously while his audience hoots and hollers in the background takes a special brand of obtuseness.
But why do those on the left love the affordable care act so?
I'd argue it is not so much that as it is the entire concept of progressive government.
If they can't do this right, then what is the point?
I really can't watch Stewart anymore. But I am glad to see that he challenges his own world view by interviewing Democrats and discovering, repeatedly, that they just don't live up to the hype.
He looks incredulous when she doesn't have answers. And yet, what a fool he must be to expect her to have answers. I think he really does believe that government is the answer, and so he keeps thinking it's just the wrong people this time, we need the right people to get it done.
And he will continue thinking that until the entire country is destroyed, and then he'll still think that and want to try it all again, only this time, it'll be different.
I wonder if she can read cursive??
“We worked very hard to honor our responsibility to pass a bill that honors the vows of our founders; life ... liberty to pursue your happiness... if you want to be a writer, if you want to be a comedian, ...”
I reject the notion that our founders risked their liberty and their lives so that one day their descendants would be on the hook to fund the unproductive pursuits of the fellow down the street.
Are there any democrats embarrassed at having Pelosi as their Congress leader? Can you imagine how savaged Boehner would be if he was similarly incompetent?
I watched a little, but I cannot stand that woman...plus she does NOT answer any questions but acts as if you didn't ask it.
Had to shit it off.
"politics is just another form of TV soap opera"
Who was it that said "Politics is show biz for ugly people?"
Even with a population control protocol, "green"-washing environmental disruptions (e.g. shifting, obfuscating/ignoring), cheap foreign labor, cheap illegal labor, trillion dollar deficits, and progressive confiscation of private capital, they can't make the numbers work.
Bubble economics has a finite life before misaligned development causes it to burst, often with catastrophic consequences. The promissory policies of the current administration have accelerated that cycle, which typically operates with a decadel period.
I hope that Pelosi decides to retire, as Waxman did.
She has fluttery hand movements, a Botox stare, and an artificial laugh. Her mannerisms are a turn off.. It's a good thing she's a Democrat. She would have been mocked endlessly were she a Republican. Just the fact that her husband is a rich banker would have been a source of endless mirth. Maybe further investigation would reveal that he has effete mannerisms or one of her kids is fat. Then it would be the mother lode of comedy gold. But unfortunately she's a Dem and so Stewart can only ask respectful questions.
... and so he keeps thinking it's just the wrong people this time, we need the right people to get it done.
That's part of it. The bigger picture is the left's faith in a clockwork universe, where the right outcome is assured if only correct actions are taken. Unlike a lot of other conservative commenters here, I don't believe most liberals have in the darkness of their hearts the urge to domination. I think the vast majority just want to fix what they see as problems, and see governmental authority as the only agency capable of taking the correct actions.
You need a way for traffic to get from one side of the river to the other, build a bridge, simple.
The two fatal flaws in this default way of thinking are (a) it's not always trivial to identify what the desired outcome should be, and (b) accounting for all the the factors that have created the "problem" (another definitional challenge) let alone finding the optimal action to mitigate them.
Especially for an elite class where everything has been fixed for them by someone else since before they could walk, the idea that there isn't a simple solution to what at first blush is a simple problem is anathema. Hence, modern Liberalism.
She doesn't answer his questions and doesn't seem close to understanding them. You passed the bill and still don't know what's in it.
I'd bring up economics.
Which she lies about or is too stupid to understand.
She should not have worn that bracelet.
How does she not know that people in her office are now working for Lobbying groups?
MM,
She knows. She's just lying. Great interview.
Jon Stewart is an old-fashioned liberal and does not really have a home in today's world.
But the Daily Show is a very profitable gig.
"They know we will vote for the budget no matter how unpleasant it is."
There you have Democratic philosophy in one sentence.
Sat in a bar in the East Village last night and watched one guy try to convince everyone else that the ACA was a good thing.
He mentioned a family he knew that finally had insurance when they'd never been able to get it before. Someone asked him how much it cost, and his reply was, "It varies, according to your need."
You could have heard a pin drop in the room. The specter of communism makes people uncomfortable, even the most liberal portions of NYC. Of course, the crowd was mostly young males, the ones whose ability tends to far outweigh their need...
Stewart really does get to a key issue. "Do we have a foundational problem" in implementing all these genius ideas?
Pelosi has no answer to this.
Progressives honestly believe that having the pretty thoughts is all that matters. Getting things done: well, there is just no excuse for not getting them done. That is progressive management style. Failure is not an option. Idiotic beliefs very detached from the way the real world works.
Don't hear much talk about repealing ObamaCare anymore. Or defund, or, er repeal and replace, or delay and/or defund. Hard to keep track. Did Repubbies give that up?
Original Mike said...
“We worked very hard to honor our responsibility to pass a bill that honors the vows of our founders; life ... liberty to pursue your happiness... if you want to be a writer, if you want to be a comedian, ...”
I reject the notion that our founders risked their liberty and their lives so that one day their descendants would be on the hook to fund the unproductive pursuits of the fellow down the street.
Sad to say, long term ... the founders have lost.
How can Jon Stewart not respond when Nancy Pelosi presents the false caricature that Republicans are "anti-science"?
This is lunacy that the leader of the Democrats in the House actually says this. It may be just politics and she doesn't really believe it, but make her admit this. Allowing it to stand out there like a sore thumb makes me support the Republicans even more in opting not to negotiate with crazy people like Nancy Pelosi who may actually believe her political opposition is "anti-science".
This clip shows Pelosi is a cynical, political hack with nothing meaningful to say when she can't stick to her Republicans-are-evil talking points. Stewart was pressing her on systemic problems with governance, which should be catnip to anyone who's spent their whole life in government. Nancy's response: I got nothing - which, ironically, is how she characterizes the GOP. What an empty pantsuit.
Can anyone else make sense of Nancy Pelosi's answer to Jon Stewart's question about the 300 page procurement document when soliciting bids for contracts?
The President's own IT guy couldn't figure it out. That's a honest, refreshing thing to hear. However, tell me more. Why can't you figure it out? Why aren't you changing it? Why aren't you on the hill trying to change it?
The buck obviously stops with the next President since the current one has no intent to do anything about the laundry list of executive branch policies that nobody can figure out.
Garage: The Affordable Care Act will take care of itself. Not to worry. No need to talk about it since it is working splendidly or, where it is not, will be sometime in the future. I think we will just be quiet about it until the fall.
Pelosi is not cynical.
"Cynical" implies that you know better. Pelosi does not.
Well, Boehner is regularly savaged by repubs. That was awesome, I see what you did there.
"'Not my responsibility' is WHY the government doesn't do anything well."
-- You get that in corporations too. It's just, in corporations, it is in your interest to promptly follow that by either saying, "But I can find out who knows that answer," or by saying, "I can however fit it in after my other duties are attended to."
How can Jon Stewart not respond when Nancy Pelosi presents the false caricature that Republicans are "anti-science"?
Yes, but look at the Trifecta. Pelosi complains that: a) Republicans won't pass disagreeable budgets; b) they aren't enamored of the president; and c) they are anti-science.
I'd take the first two even the third wasn't just stupid name-calling.
BTW, you can tell she's rattled because she to mention that Republicans hate women.
BTW, you can tell she's rattled because she [failed] to mention that Republicans hate women.
I felt let down too. :(
garage mahal said...
"Don't hear much talk about repealing ObamaCare anymore. Or defund, or, er repeal and replace, or delay and/or defund. Hard to keep track. Did Repubbies give that up?"
Yeah. Please keep up the delusion that ObamaCare isn't a complete and total piece of crap. Because you defending it just makes it easier to point out, to the vast majority of us (like my family) getting crapped on by this, that Democrats are insane and evil.
(yeah if you can't tell ObamaCrap hit my family)
Right, Republicans have NO agenda.
When in fact the problem is that Republicans don't share Obama's agenda.
Mark,
"I don't believe most liberals have in the darkness of their hearts the urge to domination. I think the vast majority just want to fix what they see as problems"
But ultimately, that's a distinction with very little difference.
It's a steep, hideously slippery, and well-worn slope from "I'm going to fix [what I perceive to be] a problem", to "what can we do about all the wreckers and saboteurs who are keeping our solution from working?"
Garage,
Listen, I don't really believe the crap that some here spew your way (that you're either a demented True Believer or a paid troll)...
But stuff like your 11:35am makes it pretty hard to keep extending you that courtesy.
Look: to those of us in the Real World, it's not a game. It's not a Seahawks vs Broncos analogy! Quite a few of us have almost, if not exactly, as much contempt for the pathetic Republican leadership as we have for the Democrats.
Portia,
That's the typo of the week! LOL!!!
"For us, this vision that we have this legislation that makes life better for people was our contribution to the future."
And therein lies the problem. For US this legislation doesn't make life better for people, and affects many peoples future negatively. And as it was the dems contribution, they should be held accountable.
Liberals never question whether the legislation they pass even makes life better. It's only important that it's passed.
And so, if there's problem with the website just wait. Pump more money into it for ever since we're helping people.
When asked about the economy and why after 5 years the Obama recovery is the most anemic in our history, why we need to keep at at, it's getting better.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason it's not working so well, is because it doesn't. and the assumption that it's helping people is in fact an erroneous one.
Or if you want to argue that it is helping people in the margins, maybe other things would help people MORE.
If libs would just open their minds and get it out of the socialism gutter.
The "best and brightest" are unaccustomed to a critical review. The interview was chaotic (i.e. bounded with unknown or insufficiently characterized sources and sinks). Pelosi should have been prepared for sudden and catastrophic departures from the prevailing narrative.
That said, I have a newfound respect for Stewart, boldly going where no journalist has gone before.
After watching those nervous tics and listening to her speech pattern, I think this poor woman is about two years away from the Funny Farm.
jr565:
They have to make the numbers work, and their promissory notes are coming due.
After watching those nervous tics and listening to her speech pattern, I think this poor woman is about two years away from the Funny Farm.
Republicans are the party of (Saying) NO if by (saying) NO you mean saying NO to asinine proposals offered by people who have no idea how to grow an economy, but are really good at growing govt debt.
But, libs need to realize that they are also the party of NO. They are similarly saying NO to anything offered by republicans that flies in the face of their agenda.
So, calling one side the party of NO is only a framing device, demanding that your party gets its way.
It's your way or the highway. Obama won. No compromise.
Dems and libs though are so disingenuous as to say that what they are offering IS compromise. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.
"Sad to say, long term ... the founders have lost."
I didn't understand why her statement made me depressed instead of angry. I think you've hit the nail on the head, Tank.
Yeah. Please keep up the delusion that ObamaCare isn't a complete and total piece of crap
You would think Republicans could trot out better examples of O'Care hurting real people. Seems like when someone pokes into these stories they always fall apart. Like ‘Bette in Spokane’ who Cathy McMorris Rodgers used as an example....who never even checked her options online.
n.n. wrote:
They have to make the numbers work, and their promissory notes are coming due.
Not if they have anything to say about it. There isn't a promissory note that is coming due that they wouldn't demagogue their opponents over if they suggested that we actually have to pay such notes at some point in our future.
In fact this has been the debate the left and right has been having since obama has been in office. One side has been saying their are promissory notes that are due and we need to start paying them, and the other side is saying how dare you. Have you no sense of decency?!
They want endless extensions on their economic recovery, and their govt program spending and their health care proposals. And if you point out the obvious flaws in the results of their policies, then of course you hate the poor. Or are racist.
Pelosi is another amazing American political phenomena. She certainly seems dumb, never engaging in any responsive back and forth and, instead, always trying to remember talking points. I don't think I have ever heard her say somthing that indicated above average intelligence and, generally, she seems below average. Stewart certainly seemed to recognize she was dumb and purposely took it easy her to avoid undue embarasmsent and harm to Stweart's political side.
My question is how on earth, in the competition with hundreds of highly ambitious and many smart democratic congressment, has Pelosi been able to rise to the most powerful democrat in the house? Everyon in Washington seems to know she is dumb, yet she has totally succeeded in personal advancement. Anyone have an answer that?
garage mahal wrote:
ou would think Republicans could trot out better examples of O'Care hurting real people. Seems like when someone pokes into these stories they always fall apart. Like ‘Bette in Spokane’ who Cathy McMorris Rodgers used as an example....who never even checked her options online.
Obama is going swimmingly. Just keep repeating that yourself. And if she never checked her options online its probably because she couldn't. Because the website is a turd.
It's disheartening to know that our representatives do not know or are incapable of explaining the cause of their dysfunction. The most expensive education system in the world must be producing a worse product than has already been revealed. Perhaps a little accountability, by proximity, by shared interest, would resolve their incompetence and/or greed. They're just asking for a comprehensive audit.
"It doesn't matter. It should have been prepared for."
When she said
"We have to pass it so you can see what's in it" wasn't that the preparation that she's talking about?
So why didn't it happen?
And if she never checked her options online its probably because she couldn't. Because the website is a turd.
No, she doesn't want to check. She'll go without insurance. Because she is a dumbass.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/sick-kids-denied-specialty-care-due-obamacare-washington_776030.html
I really hope you get cancer Garage, and that your little jug eared Jesus decides that you are not worth to receive care.
"Kansas City said...
Pelosi is another amazing American political phenomena. She certainly seems dumb, never engaging in any responsive back and forth and, instead, always trying to remember talking points. I don't think I have ever heard her say somthing that indicated above average intelligence and, generally, she seems below average. Stewart certainly seemed to recognize she was dumb and purposely took it easy her to avoid undue embarasmsent and harm to Stweart's political side.
My question is how on earth, in the competition with hundreds of highly ambitious and many smart democratic congressment, has Pelosi been able to rise to the most powerful democrat in the house? Everyon in Washington seems to know she is dumb, yet she has totally succeeded in personal advancement. Anyone have an answer that?"
Yes, her father was (and brother) mayor of Baltimore and a US Representative. This opened a lot of doors. And she married a millionaire.
@KC: I think you should entertain the idea that your premise ("hundreds of highly ambitious and many smart democratic congressmen") is faulty. Seriously. I'm not being snarky.
But why do those on the left love the affordable care act so?
I think most of them love the false premise that it is based on--that we can wave a magic wand, pass a law (ANYTHING) and then everyone will have A-1 medical care. It's not the way real life works, of course, but too many on the left want to believe it.
There is still a small group that sees it as yet another gateway to governmental control.
But the majority are good-hearted people who are simply fact-challenged and/or like easy answers to difficult problems.
I really hope you get cancer Garage, and that your little jug eared Jesus decides that you are not worth to receive care.
Thanks, but due to ObamaCare you can't get kicked off your insurance for getting sick any longer.
Garage. She isnt a dumbass for going without mthanks to the genius of ACA. If she gets sick she buys it then. No problem
Garage It has been against the law to get kicked off insurance if you get sick. For years.
I know that reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, but those children with "insurance" will be denied "health care."
You stupid fat son of a whore.
I've seen Stewart go after the dems before, and while entertaining, he always does it from the position of someone who wants them to succeed, and is mad that they aren't.
That's a far cry from a proper unbiased grilling.
"Garage It has been against the law to get kicked off insurance if you get sick. For years."
Facts don't matter. Not when you've got right on your side. That was the logic behind Obama's health insurance lies.
Garage It has been against the law to get kicked off insurance if you get sick. For years.
Rescission happened all the time.
Facts don't matter. Not when you've got right on your side
Facts do matter. You're just usually just wrong on the facts. See above.
I know that reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, but those children with "insurance" will be denied "health care."
What in the fuck are you babbling about?
The sad fact is that most of those millions that were expected to buy health insurance under the ACA do not want any part of it, unless perhaps as a free "right" without even any paperwork for application involved.
The "gentry Democrats" just plain do not know or understand what they believe to be their own "base."
My question is how on earth, in the competition with hundreds of highly ambitious and many smart democratic congressment, has Pelosi been able to rise to the most powerful democrat in the house?
You raise so much money your peers seek you out for help. If you raise money, they will come. See Senator Obama.
The Mahal fella said: "You would think Republicans could trot out better examples of O'Care hurting real people."
Let me trot out myself Garage. My premiums have increased from $8,000/year to $13,000/year since the ACA was passed. For the math challenged, that is not a decrease of $2500/year, as promised by the Liar-of-the-Year award winner.
garage, I'm pretty sure you haven't been on the web site actually enrolling in the exchange and trying to find out what your options are. Even if you do everything right, its confusing, complicated with no sense of confidence that you are doing it right. I've done it because I'm in the category of needing to do it and its not a smart position to look down on those who have, and have had problems. Much less looking at shelling out $500 a month to get coverage, once you've paid out $12,000. You have to apply, enroll and pay to see what you get.
Garage: The link is to an article over a disputed claim on insurance. It is against the law for an insurance company to cancel insurance because the insured has contracted an illness after the issuance of coverage (if fraudulently obtained, the insurance could be rescinded if the carrier found, for instance, that the insured was a smoker when they claimed they were not, etc.)
Repeat. It is against the law for an insurance company to cancel a policy because the insured has gotten sick after the policy was issued. The ACA did re-fix a problem that did not exist.
Even if you do everything right, its confusing, complicated with no sense of confidence that you are doing it right
Apparently this woman refuses to go on the website to try to see what her options are. So she and her family goes without.
" garage mahal said...
"" I know that reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, but those children with "insurance" will be denied "health care.""
What in the fuck are you babbling about?"
The old way was to deny health coverage up front. The new way with the boards is to deny coverage on the back end. Both ways are basically for the same reason. It is too expensive.
Garage: the HIPAA law section 2742 (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996)
Check it out, Mr. fact.
Healthcare costs- what are they? No one actually knows, but I can pretty much guarantee that the expenses involved in let's say, a knee replacement, are very close to identical. But, what does is it cost?
I bring this up because my wife recently had a knee replaced. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but these will be close. Billed costs: About $30K. Amount allowed and paid by insurer: About $12K. My cost share (exact) $450.00 Which will be paid by my secondary insurance in any event.
$30K? $12K? Somewhere in between? The doctors and nurses don't appear to be starving or in need, so they're getting paid. The patients are leaving the hospital all fixed up, for the most part. And the janitors and support staff are getting paid and showing up to work. So overhead is being covered. Does anyone actually pay the $30K? Or is that an imaginary number?
Blue Cross, she said, told her it dropped her for failing to disclose on her application that she had had breast cancer 11 years earlier. Thompson said the application had asked for 10 years of medical history. Still, she said, she asked the agent whether she needed to include the information and he told her no.
Three days after arriving home from the surgery, "I received a letter from Blue Cross telling me they were pulling the rug out from under me," she said. "It was right before Christmas. It was a great gift." Link
Garage: There is no good reason to have health insurance under the new plan. Pay the fine, pay out of pocket for routine medical visits: it will be equal to or less what you pay for deductibles. If something bad comes up, buy the insurance then.
Garage,
Forget Republicans and their far away examples. Humperdink is not the only commenter here who has been hurt by Obamacare. Why don't you poke at their stories to make them fall apart?
Go ahead do it. C'mon. It should be easy. Right.
Garage: the link is from 2008. What happened? Did the hospital ignore the Federal law?
Garage: the HIPAA law section 2742 (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996)
So what? Have fun fighting their army of lawyers.
Garage: Are you contending that the federal law I cited is not a federal law? WTF.
Garage, you, like all Dems, cannot admit this law is a heaviest boat anchor yet foisted upon the American public. This is not arguable. Why do you persist?
Apparently you will go to your grave praising this debacle. Credibility? You have none. Nor does Pelosi, Reid, Liar-of-the-Year, Blabbermouth Schultz et al. What fine company you keep.
Spouse's cousin (self employed) had her insurance policy cancelled last fall because it did not satisfy the ACA requirements. She was happy with her policy. Did I mention she has cancer?
Garage, go extoll the virtues of the ACA to her. And then duck.
garage mahal said..."Don't hear much talk about repealing ObamaCare anymore. Or defund, or, er repeal and replace, or delay and/or defund. Hard to keep track. Did Repubbies give that up?"
Last week: Three GOP Senators Offer Plan To Replace Obamacare
Garage: Are you contending that the federal law I cited is not a federal law? WTF
No I'm saying they rescinded policies anyway.
"So what? Have fun fighting their army of lawyers."
Strengthening the law, if necessary, and sanction illegal insurance company behavior. The fact remains, it's against the law.
Garage: So how will the ACA prevent insurance companies from rescinding policies anyway as you put it. Just another federal law. So, as you ask, what.
garage mahal said..."You would think Republicans could trot out better examples of O'Care hurting real people. Seems like when someone pokes into these stories they always fall apart. Like ‘Bette in Spokane’ who Cathy McMorris Rodgers used as an example....who never even checked her options online.
Bette in Spokane's story doesn't really "fall apart," though, because even if she had gone on the exchange, her premium increase would still have gone through the roof:
"...the 'nearly $700 per month' increase in her premium that McMorris Rodgers cited in Tuesday night’s GOP response to the State of the Union address was based on one of the pricier options, a $1,200-a-month replacement plan that was pitched by Asuris Northwest to Grenier and her husband, Don.
The carrier also offered a less expensive, $1,052-per-month option in lieu of their soon-to-be-discontinued catastrophic coverage plan. And, Grenier acknowledged the couple probably could have shaved another $100 a month off the replacement policy costs by purchasing them from the state’s online portal, the Health Plan Finder website, but they chose to avoid the government health exchanges."
So, instead of a $700 increase, she could have had a $552 increase, or maybe a $452 increase. Those are still very hefty increases for most folks. And the benefits for all three plans are not identical.
Bette in Spokane's story doesn't really "fall apart," though, because even if she had gone on the exchange, her premium increase would still have gone through the roof:
I see nothing from your link that backs this assertion. Her insurance provider tried selling her an expensive replacement policy.
Garage: "You would think Republicans could trot out better examples of O'Care hurting real people."
I know someone who was the head of national sales for a pharmaceutical/medical device company based in FL; just as Ocare rules started to kick in in mid to late 2013, the entire sales force - including him - was fired, because of the medical device tax and reductions in Medicare/Medicare Advantage payments.
How's that for an example of OCare hurting someone? Unfortunately, more of those examples are on the way...
Hey Garage,
When you link to a 5 year old (!) story to make your case, you might want to check subsequent events before beclowning yourself.
The $1billion with a b lawsuit was settled for $6million with an m. Anthem Blue Cross admitted NO fault. So what did your poor "cheated" policyholders receive? Nothing!
From the article -
"The $6 million will be divided between the city and the county, earmarked to be used on consumer enforcement ...
Policyholders won’t get relief from the settlement, which doesn’t call for restitution or reinstatement of insurance policies."
Yeah, doesn't sound like they were able to prove criminality on Blue Cross' part.
Sounds more like a grandstanding city attorney and policyholders who were perhaps shall we say less than fully forthcoming on their applications.
surprised you guys still take GM's bait. We all know, pretty much, what he is going to say, albeit not the specific form of each entry. He seems to derive pleasure from typing outlandish stuff in order to get a reaction. You're not going to change his/her mind. GM's view is set in concrete. You're wasting valuable electrons that could be used to debate how to replace Obamacare, or to answer the question of why you can only buy Thin Mints at Girl Scout cookie selling time and not some other time of the year. You know, something really important.
garage mahal said...
"You would think Republicans could trot out better examples of O'Care hurting real people."
I've already mentioned my family in previous threads. And @Humperdink named themselves. And how about some Pennsylvania employees? http://youtu.be/UuA2_P-m4Sk
Like I said, please keep insulting those of us who are living this mess due to YOUR vote.
It is going to be amazing how personal this is going to get. Because going from spending $5000 a year to $14,000 a year for "insurance" that doesn't even cover anything until you spend $10,000 out of pocket ... yeah actual healthcare isn't going to happen. People are looking at their costs and the risk of getting sick or injured is a financial nightmare now.
Only truly insane and evil people will say this is a good thing.
Jon Stewart is like the IRS! His FOX News to Democrat take-downs are about 10 to 1! Like the IRS, he is ruthless with FOX and finds a way to laugh-off Democrats as hapless and not corrupt!
A couple of years ago, he blamed "At Not War" on John McCain, Lindsay Graham and John Bolton! The NYT had a story on the very same day saying the Hillary, Susie and Sammi Powers had forced Obama into Libya! How funny would it be to make Obama Hillary's bitch? Whips, chains and ball-gags? The truth would have been much funnier than trying to make us believe that three white Republicans shamed him into Libya!
Apparently this woman refuses to go on the website to try to see what her options are. So she and her family goes without.
You have no idea garage, apparently.
You have no idea garage, apparently.
I do, Bette said so herself. “I wouldn’t go on that Obama website at all,” said Grenier, 58, who lives in the Chattaroy area and owns a roofing company with her husband.
Her husband also suffers from emphesema, which makes it even more incredible that she would rather go without health insurance than simply check policies through the state exchanges.
RecChief,
I agree completely, and have written similar comments in the past. I think this is only the third time over the years that I bothered to reply to him. There was something about his comments this time that just got my goat.
My own theory is that his primary interest is to derail each thread to which he posts. He has a squirrel for every occasion. Perhaps he also gets some psychic benefit as well. I don't know.
As for his responders, I've long since decided that they get benefits independent of persuading Garage. Or perhaps like me, he occasionally posts something so stupid or insulting that it can't be let stand without being set straight.
Hey Garage,
I see you're still here. Still waiting for you to poke holes in our commenters' experiences.
Also, perhaps you might want to apologize for wasting everyone's time with your out of date blue cross story that you couldn't be bothered to follow up.
Garage is a lot like Pelosi, except that Pelosi matters and Garage does not.
Pelosi really did not get the question that Stewart was posing. She didn't understand it because she just does not think in those terms. "It's not my responsibility" was her best line, and she means it. Pass a series of crap laws, take little or no interest in the practical problems of the administration of the laws and then blame someone else when it does not work.
The VA has been a mess for decades. No fix.
Obama came into office with an IT Czar. He was going to make government IT work. At first frustration Obama entirely dropped the issue. Not his responsibility.
The problem is accountability. it's not that the tasks required to build the Obamacare were impossible. It's that no one was accountable for getting it done. Private business more often than not gets the job done. That's because they know they will be out of work if they fail.
Government employees know they will not lose their jobs. They have been schooled not to take risks or make waves. The politicians know that can weasel out of being judged by results.
As the world becomes more complex, government becomes a less viable solution to solving problems. Even when government has competent people, they are hamstrung by an incompetent system.
In Congress, where success is measured by getting reelected, and reelection depends on half truths, deflection of responsibility and bullshit, the incompetence of the system is barely perceived.
No, she doesn't want to check. She'll go without insurance. Because she is a dumbass
Because policies with 10,000 dollar deductibles are insurance in any rational measure whatsoever.
Republicans don't need to spend the effort to spotlight problems. The press is having a hard time ignoring it.
Hell, Oregon and Maryland were supposed to be two great systems and both are utterly fucked beyond all rational measure.
Rescission happened all the time.
You know states regulate that, aren't you? Always did.
Her husband also suffers from emphesema, which makes it even more incredible that she would rather go without health insurance than simply check policies through the state exchanges.
Massive premium increase with a humungous increase in deductibles.
Can't figure out why somebody wouldn't want to play.
I'll ask you garage --- since you say companies can safely ignore federal laws...
WHY DO YOU THINK MORE FEDERAL LAWS WILL DO ANYTHING TO HELP NOW?
Why is THIS law the one they can't ignore with their "army" of lawyers.
Hell, with proper campaign contributions, the Sec of HHS can simply waive their responsibilities on a large array of things.
Also, perhaps you might want to apologize for wasting everyone's time with your out of date blue cross story that you couldn't be bothered to follow up.
I suppose it didn't dawn on you that I linked to a 2008 story because that's when insurance companies were rescinding policies? More reading here. Instead of getting angry you should be thanking me for my patience.
Not angry at all. Good deflection on your part though. After all, it what you do.
suppose it didn't dawn on you that I linked to a 2008 story because that's when insurance companies were rescinding policies
...but a FEDERAL law said it was illegal to do.
How is that even POSSIBLE?
garage mahal said...
"Bette in Spokane's story doesn't really 'fall apart,' though, because even if she had gone on the exchange, her premium increase would still have gone through the roof" -- I see nothing from your link that backs this assertion. Her insurance provider tried selling her an expensive replacement policy.
_________________
Did you actually read either the linked story or the two paragraphs I provided from that story? If you do, you'll see that no matter which policy she chose she'd still have had a very large premium increase.
Did you actually read either the linked story or the two paragraphs I provided from that story? If you do, you'll see that no matter which policy she chose she'd still have had a very large premium increase.
I did. I seen nothing that indicates Bette checked a single policy through the state exchanges. The rate increase she was quoted had nothing to do with plans offered on the exchanges. Her insurance company tried ripping her off.
Ah, I read that "acknowledged" in the article as implying the writer knew "Bette" was correct in her assessment that the exchange would have saved her only about $100. What we need is some verification of exactly the exchange offers.
This is excellent interviewing. The old fogies at CNN and NBC and MSNBC and FoxNews could learn quite a bit from it. Note how Jon Stewart ropes Pelosi in with cordiality and jokes at the start-- she has no idea what's coming... Keep your friends close, and your incompetent lying interviewees closer. So she's relaxed, and then he starts in with the slightly uncomfortable questions... and then, most importantly, he doesn't let up and keeps the pummeling going. Note Pelosi's body language at 5:50 when she realizes where this is going-- her repositioning herself in a defensive stance speaks volumes.
Sure, everybody knows that government is a clusterfuck. But what is ingeniously shown here is that our two-prong "mainstream" media is just as much of a clusterfuck, unable to set up an execute an interesting interview or ask tough questions while insisting that they be answered.
@Lydia
That was my point, we don't know what type of plan she could have obtained because she never set an account.
Even the HHS "update" on enrollment found some facts that might be interesting to Garage:
+ More people are without insurance NOW than before the law was passed
+ Study this week showed that 70% of "new" enrollees qualify for subsidies
+ Even the "uninsured" have an overall unfavorable disposition towards the ironically named ACA; and nearly 70% think the law will do more harm than good, and these are the uninsured saying this so for whom was this law passed exactly?
+ Here 9in the Peoples Republic of California, we have had 5 million non-renewals (that means the policies were cancelled by the ACA regulations) and only about 550,000 enrollees in Covered California, which works out to about a 90% failure rate for "covering the uninsured" -- again, only meaningful because we turned the whole system upside down to help people!
The plural of anecdote is data. And there is a LOT of data out there of affected people, all of whom Garage chooses to disregard, who have encountered loss of a plan that met their needs with a smorgasbord of new plans that do not meet their needs, or only does so at a steep increase in premiums and deductibles.
One inconvenient fact5 was contained in the 2010 budget where HHS estimated that 80% of employer sponsored plans would also eventually fall on the wrong side of the ACA regulations. To prepare for this, Garage, you should know that generally the most self-reliant type of folks have been affected by the ACA thus far, the kind of people who built a business or run their own sales firm or freelance in some way and so must purchase policies on the open market without the benefit of a group plan like employed people and union thugs. But phase two will hit the rest of us, and if you think the shit-storm brewing for 2014 is easily wished away, then I look forward to your complete fucking meltdown when 80% of the country is facing the economic hell that is the ACA.
People were already7 hurting in this Obama economy. Hell you pull stats out of your butt every day to show how many people are out of work in the Cheesehead paradise (although you blame the governor, not the guy who deepened the recession and devalued the dollar at the same time). So, with people already hurting, and bankruptcy and foreclosures at an all-time high, you think it is praiseworthy for our government to force a $2500 to $12,000 out-of-pocket expense on every family with insurance? You think that shit ain't gonna hit the fan?
It will unless the ACA collapses under the weight of it's many contradictory and illegal executive actions first. Either way, people are hurting now and will be hurting more with every additional family that is thrown under the ACA bus.
Oh, Garage! I forgot what first drove me to the keyboard. WHO is their right mind WOULD willingly give all that private data up? That's what happens on the "exchanges" you know, you exchange your bank account and social security number and the government is NOT LIABLE when the Russian hackers steal you blind. Yet another clusterfuck appendage to Obama's monstrous law.
Yet you do not have compassion for the poor people thrust into this Hobson's choice. You mock them. Even though the exchange in Bette's state is broken and completely dysfunctional, you mock her. Wonderful liberal compassion you display there!
"My question is how on earth, in the competition with hundreds of highly ambitious and many smart democratic congressmen, has Pelosi been able to rise to the most powerful democrat in the house? Everyone in Washington seems to know she is dumb, yet she has totally succeeded in personal advancement. Anyone have an answer that?"
I seriously question the premise that there are "many smart democratic congressmen." The fact that they elected her their leader obviates that right there.
But taking a deeper look, truly smart, savvy, and public-minded politicians above the local level are fairly rare. One has to have a level of personal toughness and deep moral commitment to be effective in a world so awash in slime and sleaze.
I lived in San Francisco when Pelosi was first elected. It was a cram-down by the Burton family machine, a key element of the state's liberal Democrat hierarchy. She had done nothing--nothing--in local politics; she was then already a money producer via her family roots and marriage, and she was a safe bet to flack the leftie message. She defeated Harvey Milk's successor as the only gay member of the Board of Supervisors, demonstrating again the savage cynicism of the Dems' multi-culti pretensions.
So who is surprised that she and her patrons wouldn't turn around and play the woman card as her ticket to the top? And who really thinks that demonstrates intelligence of any kind except to navigate in the Democrat la la land?
And yet the rubes keep eating the scraps from the masters' table. It will only end, I fear, when we finally run out of other people's money with which to lull the masses.
I do
No you don't and I've seen enough of you on this blog over the years to be entirely confident with that.
Okay, garage, I just went to eHealth.com and checked on policies for someone in Spokane and Bette's age, and it looks to me as if the policy closest to what she had, and one not offered by her old insurance company, is the Blue Cross Premera Preferred Bronze 5500 plan or the LifeWise Essential Bronze 550 plan, for which her premium would be $959.14 a month. And those are with a higher deductible than her old policy had and with no free doctor visits like her old policy. Cheaper policies are available, but they're even farther away from the benefits of her old plan.
eHealth.com is a broker site, but the NY Times says that "insurers who sell policies both on and off the exchanges must sell the same plan for the same price".
Oh, Garage! I forgot what first drove me to the keyboard. WHO is their right mind WOULD willingly give all that private data up?
Anyone that has a bank account, a cell phone plan, or an internet connection?
If you are a Feminist, you should be up in arms about this. This man-- this Jon Stewart-- keeps on pummeling this woman hero with question after question and will not accept her answers. She gave you the answer already-- Republicans did it! Stewart certainly would not dare do this to another man. The only reason he can get away with it is to utilize the male-aggressive role of our rape culture to his unfair, and disgusting, advantage. The whole interview is nothing but abuse and violence. You see the esteemed Minority Leader of the House of Representatives being verbally raped on national TV. Sexism at its "finest".
No, she doesn't want to check. She'll go without insurance. Because she is a dumbass
Kind of like the uninsured who are still uninsured, even after Obamacare . . .
Then YOU do it, Garage. And see how it works out with those unsecured, government monitored, oops-we-forgot-the-back-end servers. Go ahead. I'll wait. You come back and tell me how safe that transaction is, OK?
If I needed health insurance I would enroll in ObamaCare in a second. The government already knows who I am. eBay, Yahoo, Google, know more about me and my habits than the federal government.
A tech guy on The Daily Show comped a pair of tickets to an ex-gf so I
got to see Jon Stewart live in fall 2007. About 20 minutes before the
show starts, they had a warm-up act come out. Italian guy, he proceeds
to make the most racist jokes imaginable, most of them directly in the
faces of the handful of blacks in the audience. We were right behind
one of the black guys he was insulting, and my date was afraid there
was going to be a fight. The last five or ten minutes of his act was
more like a political rally, where he recommended that we
enthusiastically respond to Stewart's humor, or else he was going to
personally beat people up. By the time the show started, you couldn't
NOT laugh.
As it turned out, the first segment was Stewart running clips of Obama
and Hillary campaigning in the South for the Democratic party
nomination, where both candidates affected Southern black dialects,
and Stewart in turn affected their affections. It was pretty funny,
not that I was fair judge given all the prior indoctrination.
We caught up with the tech guy a couple weeks later and gave our
reviews. He wasn't working the night we were there, and he said, "They
must have pulled those blacks off the street; there are never any
blacks in the audience."
Are you sure it wasn't Sunsan B. Anthony's ghost rattling nancy's jewelry?
Where are you Sunsan B. Anthony's ghost when nancy needs you?!?!
It's still fascinating. Why do top politicos feel obligated to subject themselves to this? Everybody that goes on deserves to be used as a punchline and verbal pinata.
LarsPorsena,
nancy went on expecting a tongue bath and to nod in agreement as jon spoke of the horrors the Republicans had perpetrated and what evil they still had up their sleeves to perpetrate on innocent kittens.
I remember when I saw Dennis Miller's HBO show for the first and last time (he was the original bill maher HBO show that screeded against the evil Republicans) I was shocked. I don't know when cracks in Dennis's complete faith in leftist propaganda started to show but maybe we are seeing it in stewart here. When I start capitalizing his name you'll know the transformation has taken place in my mind.
I was there once too when I was young but I discovered fast. I think because it was only the media that had brainwashed me and not any direct influence. I think stewart being Jewish started out in a pre-dug ideological leftest hole and stayed there unsurprisingly in college then show business. It's hard to change your stripes after wearing them for so long but some people do manage to.
"Anyone that has a bank account, a cell phone plan, or an internet connection?"
GM: if any of those did what the govt has done - leave the back end open and unprotected - they'd be sued into oblivion when that data was stolen and used.
You really are a disingenuous Obamabot, aren't you?
It astounds me that an individual who is both clueless and totally disconnected from reality can rise to become one of the most powerful people in the country.
Ann, Please don't set these clips to play automatically.
Perhaps Republicans are "anti-science," but Mrs. Pelosi's antics have established a basis to call her out for anti-literacy.
Obamacare horror stories- quote from insty- "THEY TOLD ME IF I VOTED FOR MITT ROMNEY, SICK KIDS WOULD LOSE ACCESS TO SPECIALTY HEALTH CARE. And they were right!" link http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/167676/obamacare_is_denying_sick_kids
I asked far above how a Pelosi, who certainly seems dumb, could rise above hundreds of high ambitious and many smart democratic congressman. Original Mike said ot examine my primse, presumably that there are many smart decmoract congressmen. I think he is probably correct == that most democratic congressman are NOT smart. I think he is probably correct. I assume advancment to congress required most people to be smart, but that may well not be true.
Turn off the video auto-play! . . . please?
garage mahal
The Si Robertson of Althouse.
… due to ObamaCare you can't get kicked off your insurance for getting sick any longer.
I'm surprised the commentor doesn't know about Obamacare's IPAB, AKA, the "death panel." .
http://tinyurl.com/n6ayyv4
Nothing can get you "kicked off" of Obamacare. It keeps locked you into the system while simultaneously denying treatment for your illness.
Of course, if you can afford it, you can always pay out of your own pocket for treatment, just as the rich and connected do in Great Britain and Canada – where they have their own versions of Obamacare.
John Stewart could have killed her in that interview, but he knows that IRS and the justice department would have made his life miserable.
Some people here are amazed that nancy pelosi is the top democrat in the house. Well, doesn't anyone get surprised that Obama is the smartest liberal of all times, and he believed that "if you like your insurance, you can sell your insurance", even when the dumbest toothless republican redneck living in trailer park, louserville Alabama knew it to be untrue?
I found something she said at 2:43 to be very telling: "They know we're going to vote for the budget no matter how unpleasant it is."
Exactly. But don't you think, at some point, you've spent enough money?
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