"The Texas senator posted a message on his Facebook page saying that Mandela would 'live in history as an inspiration for defenders of liberty,' but some of the comments posted called the former South African leader a 'terrorist, communist, scumbag and murderer.'"
Mobys?
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Moby's I think so, but it's impossible to prove. Which is of course one of the reasons the Left does this.
Everything is so political these days!
He was one of the few men good enough to stand up for the ideals that so many others seeking liberation, social justice, and 'pure democracy' are seeking.
It's hard not to find something to admire in a man of such moral courage.
That said, many are out preening and chattering today, nowhere near the man he was and not fully understanding of the political philosophy that goes along with such ideals.
I won't try and defend the nationalist South African government nor Mandela's coalitions and the questionable ties to Libya and Venezuela.
Time to make another myth and a little God to enshrine the ideals, which may not be the right lesson to take from Mandela.
Obviously there is no evidence they are supporters (typical lazy journalism), but I doubt they're mobys given they use their names and some use their photos.
I suppose both sides could be correct. Just about different times of Mandela's life.
Mandela is without question the person who directed the ANC into it's violent phase in the early '60s and was dedicated to communism.
Once he was released from prison he did not promote violence as the way to struggle overturn Apartheid anymore. His wife, Winnie did still promote violence and they were soon divorced.
But Mandela's efforts for peaceful reconciliation and blanket amnesty for his enemies was a remarkable feat of statesmanship. As was his choosing to serve only 1 term as president of SA.
It was a pity he did not do much of anything to oppose the violence of his once friend Robert Mugabe. On this he should have done more.
But you can say that of any great leader
Moby's I think so, but it's impossible to prove. Which is of course one of the reasons the Left does this.
Go on Facebook and click on commenter profiles. I did. I couldn't find any obvious Mobys.
For instance, Mike Bates, the first commenter at the link, likes Clarence Thomas and Michele Bachmann.
They must be Mobys, because clearly there is no room for divergent opinions about Mandela.
Mobys?
Well of course they are Mobys! As we all know, no true conservative could do such a thing and conservatives always were supportive of Nelson Mandela when he was alive, especially during the 80s.
All of those things are true.
Mandela could not have done what he did had he not been himself a former radical. The radicals were willing to listen to him and give him a chance because he was one of them.
Had Mandela been another simply nice guy, and had not participated in the deaths of at least 20 in terrorist attacks, then he never would have been able to keep a lid on the radicals, and would very possibly have been killed, and gotten his family members raped and/or killed.
One of the most remarkable things about Mandela's story is in the power of redemption. Mandela was a murderous thug, who richly deserved his jail time… and out of that came the seeds of a great blessing for him and his reputation and for his country.
The parallel that comes to mind is the Apostle Paul and his transformation from Saul of Tarsus - a brutal persecutor of the early Christians - to Christ's most devoted missionary. He could not have been the great Paul that he was had he not have been Saul first.
They'll probably blow it, but Mandela gave his country a chance.
Well so what. GM, somefeller, ARM, et al couldn't care less about Cruz's feelings about Mandela nor the truth of the matter in general. Just looking to bash a Tea Party affiliated republican by any means possible. Mobys? Nah, everything's legit on Facebook.
Compared to other African leaders, Nelson Mandela was outstanding. He knew he needed the white settlers if he wanted to maintain a successful country and he encouraged them to remain. That showed wisdom far beyond many of the other African leaders like Mugabe.
On the other hand, South Africa is not doing well and may soon collapse into another failed African country like the former Rhodesia. His detractors are judging him by the abysmal state in which South Africa finds itself today with its sky high crime rates and with the ongoing genocide against the Afrikaner farmers. If South Africa fails it will make it difficult to hail the founder of the failed country a great man.
My own observations from my time in Africa is that Americans think they know what is good for Africa and Africans and have attempted to impose their wills, but the results on the ground have been catastrophic. I recently talked with Africans from Zimbabwe and asked them whether they liked Zimbabwe better or if they would prefer to go back to Rhodesia. They didn't hesitate a moment before they exclaimed Rhodesia! They were delighted that I remembered their country's old name.
These posts are all from lesbians who did not get a tip from their customer.
"My own observations from my time in Africa is that Americans think they know what is good for Africa and Africans and have attempted to impose their wills, but the results on the ground have been catastrophic."
Liberal pap cliche.
Who created the catastrophes, the westerners or the African governments who succeeded them?
What was the only country in Africa not colonized substantially? Ethiopia. You can argue a positive correlation between the amount of western involvement and health of the country, although with time they are regressing politically. Kenya and So. Africa vs. Somalia and Ethiopia.
Anyone paying attention knows that capitalism and globalism are lifting millions of Africans and other 3rd worlders out of poverty. NGO #2 reason. Foreign Aid, send it straight to Zurich for all the good it does.
Mobys?
Dicks.
Just because there are mobys out there doesn't mean there aren't also real loonies.
They don't look like Mobys to me. But it is not exactly a hate fest either.
Just because there are mobys out there doesn't mean there aren't also real loonies.
The biggest asshole I've encountered on the internet couldn't be classified as liberal or conservative.
Mandela made the Great Man theory of history ring true. He had immense courage.
Mandela was a terrorist before he became a face of humanitarianism. Showing that a man can have a profound change of mind and heart. It is for this as much as anything else he did that he should be remembered and honored.
somefeller: "Well of course they are Mobys! As we all know, no true conservative could do such a thing and conservatives always were supportive of Nelson Mandela when he was alive, especially during the 80s."
Shorter somefeller: of course they can't be moby's!! As we all know, no lefty could do such a thing as impersonate a conservative on a blogsite and write inflammatory/crazy things in order to make conservatives look bad!! No, that has never happened.
Ever.
And all those racial incidents on college campuses?
Totally happened dude.
And the Duke Lacrosse guys were guilty too!!
And if you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan. Period.
Haters!
Hey, remember all those murderous communist movements the Liberal/lefties opposed from the 1930's to the present?
Yeah, me neither.
Michael: "Michael said...
Mandela was a terrorist before he became a face of humanitarianism. Showing that a man can have a profound change of mind and heart. It is for this as much as anything else he did that he should be remembered and honored."
This.
Shorter somefeller: of course they can't be moby's!! As we all know, no lefty could do such a thing as impersonate a conservative on a blogsite and write inflammatory/crazy things in order to make conservatives look bad!! No, that has never happened.
Here's a pro-tip, Drago. If you're going to deploy the "shorter something" Internet meme, it helps to write something noticeably shorter than the comment you're critiquing. But otherwise, cool story bro.
They use their facebook names and photos-check out their other years of comments.
Definitely not Mobys.
tits and thanks.
Mountain Maven said...
"My own observations from my time in Africa is that Americans think they know what is good for Africa and Africans and have attempted to impose their wills, but the results on the ground have been catastrophic."
Liberal pap cliche.
Who created the catastrophes, the westerners or the African governments who succeeded them?
What was the only country in Africa not colonized substantially? Ethiopia. You can argue a positive correlation between the amount of western involvement and health of the country, although with time they are regressing politically."
You are correct that Ethiopia was brought down by leftists who were not American. Americans have been involved up to their ears in the rest of Africa and have often made things much worse.
In the heart of Africa, the American government directly intervened in the former Belgium Congo. The Belgian king was one of the most ruthless colonial rulers and left the country without much political or physical infrastructure to built on. The interference by the Americans against Patrice Lumumba contributed to the chaos. Shortly after independence Katanga, led by a level headed leader, Moise Tshombe, tried to secede from the rest of the former Belgium Congo but was forcefully reunited to the rest of the country by the UN which was strongly supported by the American military. This intervention threw Katanga back into the maelstrom from which Zaire has never recovered. The Americans thought they were doing what was best for the Africans but they made things worse.
Rhodesia is another instance in which Americans, led by the left, actively interfered in an African country. The British had left a colony which had a good infrastructure and in which farming was managed by white farmers who had lived in Africa for generations and who had turned Rhodesia into an African breadbasket. Smith's government may not have been ideal, but it was certainly better than what we have now. Zimbabwe has been ethnically cleansed and farms which were run on modern scientific principles were turned to tiny subsistent plots. The former food basket is now full of hungry poor people.
The Western worshipful praise of Nelson Mandela is partly self worship since they believe they were responsible for placing him in power. Mandela himself did show considerable greatness in his ability to overcome personal pain and to try to turn South Africa into a modern multicultural country. The Westerners who have been involved and feel so proud of their accomplishments are misguided at best. The South Africa they have spawned may well turn into another failed African country.
Whole swaths of former colonies once crisscrossed with roads leading to towns with churches and schools and hospitals have gone to jungle. Literally gone. The former British colonies have done somewhat better but just barely. It is a continent ripe for re-exploitation. Underway.
arage mahal said...
Moby's I think so, but it's impossible to prove. Which is of course one of the reasons the Left does this.
Go on Facebook and click on commenter profiles. I did. I couldn't find any obvious Mobys.
For instance, Mike Bates, the first commenter at the link, likes Clarence Thomas and Michele Bachmann."
Mandela was a terrorist in his early days. So were the other prisoners in the same prison. What make him different is the fact that he chose reconciliation after his release.
To garage, of course, any opinion that is not hagiography is unacceptible.
Mandela is one of the few who deserves the praise that the left likes to heap upon their heroes. He was truly brave, honorable, and decent. You can criticize some of his actions and alliances, but now is not the day.......Leave him to his glory. If South Africa becomes another Zimbabwe that will be part of his legacy but leave that for another generation.
One of the best parts of Obamacare and being older than Hillary is that I will not live enough to have to listen to the bullshit eulogies praising her after her passing.
OMFG! Cruz must be a racist! That's Fnord's 33rd Corollary of Godwin's Law: Any man even one supporter of whom wears the swastika is a Nazi himself.
The sun will rise tomorrow morning in the West. See Ann Althouse supports anti-science, reality denying, nut jobs. Why just look at her blog. Some person named Ambrose - who clearly she must support in every way - just said the sun was going to rise in the West.
somefeller: "But otherwise, cool story bro."
That's right somefeller, it never happened.
Ever.
Carl Pham said...
Any man even one supporter of whom wears the swastika is a Nazi himself.
That's the same feather used to tar the Tea Party where one Confederate flag showed up.
Exactly. Mobys or not, they're some random, anonymous people on the Internet. By that standard, Obama is Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot all rolled into one. My God, have you ever read a comment thread at Democratic Underground?
People remember that Mandela never fessed up to his own evil. He never denounced the terrorist organization he co-founded:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
"Look! They have photos and years of comments and have liked things in Facebook!"
Says everyone to Nev on Catfish.
Who knows? People are allowed their unpopular opinions, aren't they? What is Ted Cruz supposed to do about it? He made his statement, and it wasn't in agreement with those people.
They should have used Sen Cruz's tribute post to call Drudge and his readers racist. That would have been more appropriate.
I see Mandela like Michael Collins- violence when necessary, but willing to negotiate when it was possible.
His record in office, when he had the power to exact revenge on the people who imprisoned him, shows what he was about.
So do e leftists don't like Thatcher, Reagan and gavel, sone right-wingers don't like Mandela, who was a communist and support it's terrorists from the PLO and was a big friend of Arafat. What's the big deal? It's okay to disagree.
Gavel?
Mobys my ass. Go over to Lem's and you find the same thing.
They're just idiots.
Hyphenated American gets a star. I dont hear them playing the equivalent of "Ding dong the witch is dead" on right wing radio as it was when Thatcher died. On the BBC.
The left wing, world wide, is occupied by people without scruples not to mention manners.
Love the lefty Pearl Clutching over a former Commie terrorist being called nasty names related to the truth about his Commie terrorist past. Lefties love them some Commie terrorists, being Parlor Revolutionaries themselves. It makes them feel all romanticle to Fight The Power, sipping lattes at a safe distance of 6000 miles, while other people pay the actual price. I think that's one of the most annoying things about the left; they are mostly moral and physical cowards, letting other people do their fighting and dying.
But, Tea Baggers are all racists. Because, picture of CONFEDERATE FLAG!
And yea, people whining about criticizing a dead commie are all on board with calling vocal dissent and civil disobedience from a major political party as "terrorism" and "hostage taking".
All you pearl clutching lefties should just fuck off, you have no credibility whining about name calling in politics.
Jason's "All of these things are true" comment seemed reasoned and reasonable.
Thanks for that.
Mobies my ass. Own it, it's the real face of real Cruzers.
Alan, I rant to write Vaclav Havel, a well-kmown humanitarian, anti-communist dissident, and former president of the Czech Republic.
Those were not mobys. Those were knowledgeable people making accurate observations. Mandela was a terrorist. He did participate in the murders of civilians. He intended to institute a Communist government in South Africa, like the one governing the Soviet Union at that time. Like the one that governed Cambodia in the 80's, and the one governing North Korea today.
The only reason the Left idolizes Nelson Mandela is because he was black, and his enemies were white. The Left regards the existence of white people as unfinished business.
I guess all the Mandela haters here must be Mobys.
I guess all the Mandela haters here must be Mobys.
Not true. Althouse hinted at that. But she must also realize that by absolving Mandela of terrorism and abetting murder she is absolving him of those crimes. Apartheid was so appalling that it justified murder and savagery at the time. That must be the thinking.
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