Althouse: "Pastor Terry Jones arrested with thousands of kerosene-soaked Qurans."

१२ सप्टेंबर, २०१३

"Pastor Terry Jones arrested with thousands of kerosene-soaked Qurans."

What crime is this in America?
Unlawfully transporting fuel.

६१ टिप्पण्या:

Jason म्हणाले...: Alice More: Arrest him!
More: Why, what has he done?
Margaret More: He's bad!; १२/९/१३, १०:०५ AM
Matt Sablan म्हणाले...: That must've been a lot of kerosene in the extra bottles/containers in his truck.; १२/९/१३, १०:१० AM
Brian म्हणाले...: In fairness, driving around town with a trailer full of kerosene-soaked paper sounds pretty damned dangerous.; १२/९/१३, १०:१२ AM
Beorn म्हणाले...: He is guilty of the crime of exercising his free speech.

Next time, he should stick with burning the politically correct symbol...the US Flag.; १२/९/१३, १०:१७ AM
madAsHell म्हणाले...: It is so much easier to use the IRS to suppress free speech.; १२/९/१३, १०:२९ AM
Clyde म्हणाले...: Well, at least he didn't urinate on them. That should keep the outrage in the ME down to a dull roar.; १२/९/१३, १०:३१ AM
Gabriel Hanna म्हणाले...: Whatever you've done, a crime can be made to fit. Mail fraud if nothing else.; १२/९/१३, १०:३४ AM
Annie म्हणाले...: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

Mr. Youssef could not be reached for comment.; १२/९/१३, १०:३६ AM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: Didn't 3000 world Trade Center occupants burn up in a planned heretics sacrifice to the Koran's writer in a pyre of kerosene/jet fuel soaked lower floors, unless they chose to jump 90+ floors to death to avoid the pain of the Jihadist's flames?

Weren't the Flight 93 passengers were also guilty of the crime of not bowing in submission to Allah's warriors. Shouldn't they be tried and convicted post mortem?; १२/९/१३, १०:३७ AM
ron winkleheimer म्हणाले...: To me it looks like either the pastor is an idiot or he wanted to get arrested. You don't need to soak the books in kerosene in order to get them to burn, and if you did why not just pour it on them once you reach your destination?

For that matter, why put them in a smoker at all? The point of a smoker is to slow down the burning of material by depriving it of oxygen, thereby allowing more smoke to be produced by the smoldering fuel (usually oak, cherry, or other hard wood - not kerosene soaked books.)

It actually does sound like what the good pastor was doing was hazardous, at least to himself and the assistant pastor in the truck with him.; १२/९/१३, १०:४३ AM
prairie wind म्हणाले...: Now that he's in jail, what will they do with the spoiled books? Burn them?; १२/९/१३, १०:४४ AM
gadfly म्हणाले...: All I get from reading this overstepping by the government is questions.

1. Terry Jones is not permitted to carry a firearm under Florida law, but everyone else, even George Zimmerman, can do so with a permit. Did the news report say that Jones didn't have a carry permit?

2. Jones illegally transported kerosene and that is a felony? I would think that using the wrong container to hold flammables (that you own) would be a misdemeanor at best.

3. Congratulations to the government laboratory that determined that kerosene is indeed flammable. Whodathunkit?

4. Under what law can the Dade County authorities confiscate and give away the property of Terry Jones to a muslim mosque without first securing payment for the pastor's property? This is not covered under drug enforcement seizure laws.; १२/९/१३, १०:४७ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Open fire in a public park?; १२/९/१३, १०:४८ AM
Richard Dolan म्हणाले...: This is how a 'three felonies a day' legal culture trumps the First Amendment. The gov't can always come up with a pretext to suppress speach and speakers whom it wants to squelch. But courts will not look behind the charges to find the (obvious) pretext, because they view the gov't's motive in bringing the charge as irrelevant. Similarly courts deem it irrelevant that (as I assume is the case) no one else transporting kerosene would be prosecuted to this extent (if prosecuted at all) for comparable conduct.

This is a story that dovetails with Ann's post a week or so about, about the marijuana man in NJ who used a nullification argument to obtain an acquittal by the jury. Since courts won't deal with the pretextual reality or the charges here, the only possible source of protection for someone subjected to them is from the jury in these cases.; १२/९/१३, १०:४९ AM
Jman म्हणाले...: I want to know how he gets his hands on nearly 3,000 Qurans. Does he buy them in bulk? Did he buy one and make copies? Is there a used bookstore somewhere specializing in sacred texts?; १२/९/१३, १०:५२ AM
jacksonjay म्हणाले...: You must admit that burning a Koran is at least as dangerous as making a YouTube video! The last time this kooky guy pulled this he got a warning from all the top brass! He shoulda been listening!

Abu bin-YouTube was locked-up for a year because he killed four Americans in Libya.; १२/९/१३, ११:०६ AM
Heartless Aztec म्हणाले...: It's a proven fact that Florida, Texas and Southern California suck all the crazies from the rest of the United States. I'm blaming gravity. You're welcome.; १२/९/१३, ११:१० AM
Virgil Hilts म्हणाले...: If you believe (ala Harvey Silvergate) that on average each of us now commits about 3 felonies a day, then we are all guilty of crimes. It's just a matter of whether the state dislikes us, as it does Mr. Jones. That is the society the government and the bar are creating. Keep your head down, fall in line and get used to it because its not going to get any better.; १२/९/१३, ११:११ AM
Luke Lea म्हणाले...: Disturbing the (international) peace?

Fraternizing with the enemy?

No crime whatsoever.; १२/९/१३, ११:२८ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The crime of being stupid? The crime of inciting violence to Americans abroad or within our own shores?

Yes I know those aren't crimes.; १२/९/१३, ११:३० AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: So I heard they arrested him for "driving a bomb down the road", 3000 kerosene soaked Korans very flammable. Wouldn't it have been weird if his car got struck by lightening?; १२/९/१३, ११:३४ AM
Uncle Pavian म्हणाले...: Note to future self: Wait until you get to the place where you're going to have the fire before pouring the kerosene on the big pile of Korans.; १२/९/१३, ११:३७ AM
Lyle म्हणाले...: We live in puritanical progressive America. Obama calls it exceptional America. Putin says we shouldn't call ourselves that... ironically the KGB guy is probably right.; १२/९/१३, ११:३८ AM
SJ म्हणाले...: Reputedly, the Feds have so many laws and regulations in place that a ham sandwich could be indicted.

Improper transport of fuel...sounds like the kind of hardened criminal who should not be on the loose.; १२/९/१३, ११:४१ AM
Sam L. म्हणाले...: Should have kept the kerosene cans closed until time to soak the books.; १२/९/१३, ११:४४ AM
cubanbob म्हणाले...: What are the cops going to do with those kerosene soaked Qurans? Probably the safest thing they could do with them at this point is to burn them. Maybe Jones is clever enough to set the cops up to let the cops take the 'heat' for burning those Qurans.; १२/९/१३, ११:४६ AM
Amichel म्हणाले...: More: There is no law against that.
Will Roper: There is! God's law!
More: Then God can arrest him.
Alice: While you talk, he's gone!
More: And go he should, if he was the Devil himself, until he broke the law!
Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast– man's laws, not God's– and if you cut them down—and you're just the man to do it—do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.; १२/९/१३, ११:४६ AM
Cedarford म्हणाले...: The Goals of the Preamble state it is Constitutional to promote domestic tranquility. That means that it was agreed that the American polity was allowed to continue practices that existed since colonial times that aim at maintaining that domestic tranquility..even if it means "trammeling" on absolutist "rights" in later Amendments.

Examples:

1. Loitering laws.
2. Public disturbance laws.
3. Public nudity bans and bans on whipping one's private property animals in public that vexes the women so..
4. No shouting fire in a crowded theater.
5. The Right to assemble for redress of grievances is balanced against rights of other citizens to enjoy the public space. So the Bonus Army Encampments, black mobs at city hall demanding mo' free stuff, and OWS takeover of parkland can be rousted out when it is deemed adequate time to make their grievance heard was honored.
6. Nerve gas and RPGs are arms. Yet the private citizen is banned from the right to keep and bear them..

Terry Jones is someone that is properly being dealt with as a menace to public tranquility.; १२/९/१३, १२:०२ PM
Thorley Winston म्हणाले...: So basically if he had kept the kerosene in a sealed container instead of pouring a highly flammable liquid on thousands of flammable books and driving them on a public road, he probably could have avoided getting arrested.; १२/९/१३, १२:०३ PM
LCB म्हणाले...: So...every one of the people I see pulling lawn mowers on trailers with gas cans is illegally transporting fuel??? Or...is it because the Korans were soaked in kerosene??? So...better make sure you don't transport any rags that you've soaked with kerosene and used to clean something. (It cuts through grease almost as well as gas.)

The weapons charge may be real...but the rest of this is BS. I despise guys like Terry Jones, but this is just so wrong on so many levels. Guess it's true...there are so many laws now that if "they" don't like you...they will find two or three felonies to charge you with. Like...illegally transport fuel.; १२/९/१३, १२:११ PM
Moose म्हणाले...: Any excuse to control the trouble makers. How long can they hold him for? What constitutes "Lawful fuel transport"?; १२/९/१३, १२:२२ PM
Peter V. Bella म्हणाले...: It is a crime in America to offend the over tender sensitivities of the politically correct multi-culti class. Free speech and expression is dying a fast death.; १२/९/१३, १२:३४ PM
NCMoss म्हणाले...: Kerosene soaked Qurans? Is that like brining your turkey?; १२/९/१३, १२:३६ PM
Michael म्हणाले...: Illegal transport of flammable materials. Proving, again, that we are a nation of way too many laws; any one of which you might be in violation of at this moment.; १२/९/१३, १२:३७ PM
Almost Ali म्हणाले...: There's something Shakespearean about Pastor Jones. He protests too much, and with great fanfare - but he never quite closes the deal. Instead he goes around waking up the dead warning the terrorized authorities about what he's going to do. And on cue the frightened authorities enter curtain-left to intercede in the nick of time. Calamity [always] averted.; १२/९/१३, १२:४० PM
Chuck म्हणाले...: Kerosene-soaked paper in an old trailer... a FELONY?

I am right now trying to imagine a group of civil-rights protesters, being arrested in a southern state on such felony charges, after they announced intentions to burn some kerosene-soaked Klan robes in protest.

Jesse Jackson Sr. and Al Sharpton would be on the next private jet; to lead protests broadcast live on MSNBC, seek a dismissal of all charges, and a large reparations payment to the National Action League and Operation PUSH.; १२/९/१३, १२:५९ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Do the damned pig cops not have enough real work to do?; १२/९/१३, १:१३ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Do the damned pig cops not have enough real work to do?; १२/९/१३, १:१४ PM
Thorley Winston म्हणाले...: If you believe (ala Harvey Silvergate) that on average each of us now commits about 3 felonies a day

No, I don’t believe that’s true at all. Even though I tend to think there are too many laws (because the State regulates some things that I don’t think it should), most of those laws aren’t part of the criminal code and violation of them isn’t a felony. For the most part, you have to work really hard at getting yourself arrested much less doing any significant jail time.

In the case at hand I think the arrest is correct. People shouldn’t be transporting flammable liquids and hazardous materials on public streets without storing them properly. Driving a vehicle creates a certain amount of risk but driving a vehicle with a cargo of flammable material doused with a flammable liquid creates a much greater risk which is why we require the driver to take additional precautions both to minimize the danger of a fire or explosion and to alert either drives – none of which this guy did.

If you want to find a poster child for an over-reaching government, I suggest you look elsewhere.; १२/९/१३, १:२४ PM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: Bowing to Koran worshipers is now de facto American policy. Otherwise they might require us to convert to Islam, or to pay a tax or be executed by slow beheading with a dull knife.

Oh wait, they already swore a solemn oath on their sacred Korans to do that to us anyway.; १२/९/१३, १:४० PM
Jman म्हणाले...: Three thousand phonebooks, each with "Koran" stenciled on the cover.; १२/९/१३, १:४४ PM
PB म्हणाले...: Isn't burning the correct way to dispose of those books?; १२/९/१३, १:४५ PM
Larry J म्हणाले...: Thorley Winston said...

If you believe (ala Harvey Silvergate) that on average each of us now commits about 3 felonies a day

No, I don’t believe that’s true at all. Even though I tend to think there are too many laws (because the State regulates some things that I don’t think it should), most of those laws aren’t part of the criminal code and violation of them isn’t a felony. For the most part, you have to work really hard at getting yourself arrested much less doing any significant jail time.

I'll point you to Silvergate's website where he can make his argument. IIRC, his contention is that there are upwards of 3,000 federal felony laws on the books and many of them are so vague as to allow an over zealous prosecutor wide latitude in charging someone. Again, read his own words and make up your own mind.

As to your other point, carrying kerosene-soaked books in a trailer on public streets does seem like a particularily stupid thing to do. While kerosene isn't as explosively flammable as gasoline (tends to burn slower), it does burn quite well. Had an accident ignited the books, it likely would've been quite difficult to extinguish the flames. Fire trucks at airports spray foam to extinguish jet fuel (which is kerosene). I don't think most fire trucks have that kind of equipment.; १२/९/१३, १:४९ PM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: Whatever you've done, a crime can be made to fit

Truth!

Arrest first. THEN you manipulate the penal code to fit.

Inga: Lightning. NOT Lightening.; १२/९/१३, २:०४ PM
Illuninati म्हणाले...: In my opinion the article didn't give enough information to decide if this I an example of police over reach. How much kerosene was involved. Were the Korans really hazardous or were the police pretending that small amounts of kerosene which had accidentally spilled on them was a crime? How big was the can of kerosene?

The police spokesman made it very clear that they had a history with Pastor Jones and were set to arrest him if they found cause. If policemen are looking for something to arrest you, they can usually come up with something. Therefore, I'm very skeptical of the police case.; १२/९/१३, २:२३ PM
Indigo Red म्हणाले...: What did police say was the cause for the traffic stop? Would they still have made the arrest if there were no korans, but stacks of wienies and burgers?; १२/९/१३, २:२३ PM
Howard म्हणाले...: The flaming narcissist got exactly what he was looking for:

1 attention
2 1st amendment martyrdom status; १२/९/१३, २:२४ PM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: So there are regulations for transporting fuel in this county, and it's a felony to break it?

I can't see that any conviction will stand.; १२/९/१३, २:४२ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १२/९/१३, ३:१९ PM
Jason म्हणाले...: First they came for the unhinged whackos transporting thousands of kerosene-soaked holy books in smokers in the backs of pickup trucks, and I did not speak out for them, for I was not an unhinged whacko transporting thousands of kerosene-soaked holy books in smokers in the back of a pickup truck...; १२/९/१३, ३:३५ PM
Chris Lopes म्हणाले...: While one does have a right to be stupid in this country, one aught not abuse that right. And yes, driving around with a truck full of kerosene soaked Korans is (at the very least) a fire hazard and thus against the law.; १२/९/१३, ४:०० PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...: If only they were kerosene soaked Bibles. That would be OK w/ the PC police.; १२/९/१३, ४:२३ PM
heyboom म्हणाले...: It's a proven fact that Florida, Texas and Southern California suck all the crazies from the rest of the United States. I'm blaming gravity. You're welcome.

Since I'm being grouped in as one of those "crazies" from Southern California, let me rebut by saying that we ain't got nothing on the Bay Area. That is crazy central right there. Southern California is better known for having a bunch of folks who don't speak English and don't carry "paper".; १२/९/१३, ४:२८ PM
southcentralpa म्हणाले...: And this was my point with the "I'll bet I can twirl my gun" ad the other day. The constitutional guarantee is freedom of expression, not freedom from being offended.

And to whoever responded about censorship, gov't censorship becomes a non-issue when people become cowardly and censor themselves....; १२/९/१३, ४:२८ PM
Peter म्हणाले...: Strange story. Too bad the reporter didn't ask what the Probable Cause for the arrest was.

Did he have a sign on the trailer declaring its contents to be kerosene-soaked Korans?; १२/९/१३, ४:५५ PM
Cedarford म्हणाले...: MadisonMan said...
So there are regulations for transporting fuel in this county, and it's a felony to break it?

I can't see that any conviction will stand.

==================
There are ways to excercise social control besides the silly standard of "convicted in a mighty prestigious courtroom at a cost to taxpayers of 8,800 dollars by a lawyer dressed in robes."

Example - Cops evict a piss-soaked wino from a public library who was sleeping in a corner or swearing vile things at schoolkids. Their pretext is loitering. Though they will not bother with the Lawyers and "full due process". Wino gets slammed against a cruiser, roughly searched, and tossed in the drunk tank or dropped off far away from his home neighborhood. America is not about Rule of Law(yers) or Rule of the ACLU.
When this is ignored, drunks and other disruptors of the peace let free to harm others quality of life - those other places are taking the 1st transitional steps to become the next Detroit or S Chicago.; १२/९/१३, ५:१३ PM
Michael K म्हणाले...: "If you believe (ala Harvey Silvergate) that on average each of us now commits about 3 felonies a day, then we are all guilty of crimes. It's just a matter of whether the state dislikes us, as it does Mr. Jones. That is the society the government and the bar are creating. Keep your head down, fall in line and get used to it because its not going to get any better. "

Those of you looking forward to Obamacare and ridiculing the idea of "death panels" should know that present regulations, let alone the Obamacare regs, make almost anything a doctor does subject to serious prosecution, either $1000 a day fines or a felony. Read some medical blogs.; १२/९/१३, ५:४३ PM
n.n म्हणाले...: He didn't frame the exhibition properly. First, he should have secured a grant from the NEA. Why should he have to pay for "insult to injury." Second, he should have marketed it as "Burning Koran", a work of art, similar to "Piss Christ". Intention matters, and "decent" people will be forced to tolerate First Amendment expression or be subject to extensive ridicule and justifiable accusations of hypocrisy.

That said, let the retributive change cycles begin. Christians seem to be tolerant and patient, to an extraordinary extent. I wonder if Muslims would be similarly amenable to suffer random acts of degradation.; १२/९/१३, ७:१८ PM
hombre म्हणाले...: "Detectives" arrested him. I guess it wasn't a random traffic stop. Was he profiled? Disruptive, intolerant, white guy maybe?; १३/९/१३, १:०८ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Pastor Terry Jones and his associate Pastor, Marvin Sapp, Jr. were both charged with unlawful conveyance of fuel, a felony. - See more at: http://www.nashville.com/news/national-news/pastor-terry-jones-arrested-before-he-can-burn-quran-; १३/९/१३, ४:४० AM
Bail Agent म्हणाले...: Freedom of speech requires dealing with the offensive. That's the nation we live in.

- Bail Bondsman for Las Vegas; ३/१०/१३, १२:०२ PM