Says the driver of the hijacked SUV.
The clear inference is that Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were motivated by a specific hatred of Americans... in case you'd been led to think that the Chechen dispute is with Russia.
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७६ टिप्पण्या:
Good enemy recognition, guys. They not confused.
All their American friends from school might want to reflect on that. To a terrorist you are just a target.
They didn't hate him for his freedom.
Possibly why they set the bombs off later in the marathon. The elite early runners would have been more likely to be non-American.
That has to do with nationalist Chechens vs. "Islamist" Chechens.
Not the same thing.
The bombers sound like genocidal maniacs. I don't want to sound like a victim. but fuck them and their ideology.
"Officials say that the brothers were on their way to NYC with more explosives when they were first confronted by police in the early morning hours on Friday. "
Religion of peace, hard at work...
They killed one non-American, and probably injured others.
That awful Martin Richard, oppressor to the world.
I hadn't been led to believe anything of the sort, Professor. I'd been led to believe that islamic nutbags hate everything that isn't an islamic nutbag, especially Americans.
There's a difference, you know, between Chechnens who hate Russians and Islamic nutbag Chechnens who just hate.
I've been wondering and haven't seen it anywhere: has there been any word from China? I can't imagine they're happy (at least in public) about one of their citizens being offed by people on a Russian terror watch list.
...one of the brothers...pointed a silver colored semi-automatic pistol at the driver.
Why describe it as a semi-automatic pistol? Does that really add anything? Would readers otherwise come away from the story thinking that maybe he was using a single-shot, break-action pistol? Maybe a bolt-action pistol? Those are real common, right?
Agrees with Maybee.
It sounds like a personal undertaking by the brothers, not ordered by someone else.
How did they know if he was an American? Did he show a long form birth certificate?
I was convinced that we just needed to end the "occupation" of Palestine!
@ignorance: I've seen them described as "assault pistols" before, so...semi-auto...meh. Doesn't add to the story, but better than it could be.
I had been wondering why the SUV owner hadn't been summarily killed during the hijacking. It seemed quite out of character.
Being a foreigner makes sense, I would also have thought a fellow muslim.
It was the COEXIST bumper sticker that saved the SUV driver's life!
...because he wasn't an American
...like the way Pali highjackers would sort through documents looking for Israeli passports and visas and Jewish names.
Renee said...
Agrees with Maybee.
It sounds like a personal undertaking by the brothers, not ordered by someone else."
Later in the day is when the largest crowds gather. The Sox are still playing their morning game when the elite runners are crossing the finish line.
So later in the day: more average runners finishing, more family members and friends to cheer them, and more warmly drunken Sox fans, discharged from the game and wandering around to spectate and cheer.
In other words, the time for highest terror.
But keep thinking they were just a couple of angry kids acting solo, never mind the other people arrested and the description of it as a terror cell.
Where are all the leftists worrying about jingoistic excesses since a lot of people in Boston are waving the American flag and singing the Star Spangled Banner?
Or do jingoistic excesses only take place when a Republican is President?
Remember this?
My daughter, who goes to Stuyvesant High School only blocks from the World Trade Center, thinks we should fly an American flag out our window. Definitely not, I say: The flag stands for jingoism and vengeance and war
I wonder what Katha Pollitt has to say about people in Boston singing the National Anthem at the Bruins games?
CEO,
I have not read that. Did I call them angry kids? They' re terrorists, who initiated this themselves.
...sounds like a personal undertaking by the brothers, not ordered by someone else.
What difference should it make? 18th and 19th-century English privateers preyed on Spanish and French shipping under letters of marque (vs. fatwas/sermons) with no explicit direction from the Crown.
Still war by other means.
The Red Sox did it too. Hockey fans are much more enthusiastic about it than baseball fans. Probably something about the blue collar nature of hockey, I don't know. The Sox fans can really belt out Sweet Caroline though.
Is that nationalistic?
Of course had they not let him escape, they would have had a much better chance to get away, at least for awhile.
No, Renee, you didn't say angry kids. But you did say they did it on their own, and anger is usually a prerequisite for blowing up innocent people and kids.
You haven't read the terror cell stuff? Really?
Perhaps one should cast a wider net for oneself.
CEO-MMP said...
So later in the day: more average runners finishing...
The Boston Marathon does not include average runners. Based on qualifying time requirements, setting the bomb off at 4:09 would get you mostly men 70 and over, and women 60 and over.
Of course some people run worse than their qualifying time, and you will get their friends and family watching. But there was definitely a larger crowd earlier, plus more people watching on TV.
I assume the bombs were set off so late either because they figured security would be laxer later in the day, or because they were running behind schedule.
They did it on their own...
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/21/boston-officials-say-tsarnaev-brothers-planned-for-more-violence-but-were-acting-alone/9FthniLFxGARqmKVimATrJ/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw
CEO-MMP said...
Perhaps one should cast a wider net for oneself.
Perhaps one should not write like an elitist liberal asshole.
And perhaps she read about the terror cell stuff, but understands that there is a lot of speculation and incorrect reporting, and perhaps she is using her own judgement.
Wait a minute CEO, before I lose my cool.
I live outside of Boston Massachusetts, in Lowell. Lowell was highlighted in the Washington Post, because so many injured are from the Area.
My Facebook feed is filled with fundraiser invites, for these victims who had their legs blown off.
Sorry, I don't need to 'cast a wider net', I can see the damage within my own community.
Do want an invite?
Drop in 25 dollars? But to who? Because there are a dozen victims. How does one pick one over the other?
I meant "cast a wider net" regarding the news.
Yeah, Menino even said yesterday they acted alone. While the FBI was arresting other people. I get that the Globe is going to say certain things.
Check out the British media. The Professor has even linked to a couple of stories as blog posts. There's a lot more going on here is all.
Lowell? I've never really heard anyone describe living in Lowell as living "outside Boston". That's like saying Albany is outside New York City--technically true, but still...
Best regards.
Wow, that was jerky.
Hey Ignorance, nice to see people who live up to their internet aliases! Yay you!
Sure, Renee might very well be doing all those things you mentioned. Or she (?) might be a head in the sand type. Hard to tell. The response does indicate something though.
As to your other issue, about 'no average runners'...yeah, duh. Average means recreational runners.
And you say 4:09...you mean 4 hours after the race started? I assume you are, since the bomb didn't go off at 4.
@Renee: you might be right. Of course, none of your responses to me (or your white knight's responses) qualify as jerky, right?
So, what motivated the Red Army Faction?
The Weatherman?
The Symbionese Liberation Army?
Renee said...
Do want an invite?
Drop in 25 dollars? But to who? Because there are a dozen victims. How does one pick one over the other?
No, thank you though. I have plenty of invites of my own. I don't live all that far from you in fact.
I'm just a little further outside Boston, as it were.
And I don't know how you pick a victim. Usually people just donate to the fund that services the most unless they have a connection to certain people for some reason.
Huh? No. They were not.
Instead of telling me to cast a wider net, why didn't you share a link with the terror cell info, because I'm being told by the police and media that the info they have now, is that they acted alone.
After the info war disaster, in which innocent people had a target on their backs from internet speculation I stick with certain sources.
Renee, I have no wish to argue with you. It's pretty easy to find places to read articles about this event that aren't filtered through the Boston Globe. I already suggested you try the British press.
Simply not reading other sources but only relying on other sources isn't a way to avoid bad reporting.
Enjoy the day.
FBI seeks 12 man sleeper cell.
I'm not sold on this, because I've seen nothing else corroborating the report. Yet.
Also this which may turn out to be nothing.
And I thought Renee knew how to use the internet.
EMD,
The younger brother hung out with other Russians while in college. Raiding the apartment in New Bedford made sense, it doesn't conclude a terror cell. I read the UK report which stated an unnamed source that speculated, but no evidence to support the statement.
The college students in New Bedford have been released.
So I should start wearing my Canadian maple leaf pin, in off chance of anti-American hatred?
So, can we charge him with treason yet?
He took the oath of citizenship last year. What's the likelihood that he wasn't sincere when he took it?
From a story Friday in the Wall Street Journal:
Attorney Andrea Kramer said Friday her sons played on the varsity soccer team while Dzhokhar played on the junior-varsity squad. Dzhokhar "wasn't 'them.' He was 'us,'" Ms. Kramer said. "He was Cambridge" and part of a community whose "strength and beauty" is its diversity.
CEO-MMP said...
As to your other issue, about 'no average runners'...yeah, duh. Average means recreational runners.
Not only does the marathon not include average ( recreational ) runners, it does not include average marathoners. The timing of the explosion was well past the finish time of the average entrant, and thus well past the busiest time in the finish area, for both runners and spectators.
And you say 4:09...you mean 4 hours after the race started? I assume you are, since the bomb didn't go off at 4.
Yes, that is what I meant.
William Ayers must be feeling especially proud today. His educational policies are working!
These 2 morons were educated and raised in tolerant, diverse, multi-culti, hard Left Baaston and grew up to hate Americans!
Can't wait to see how the Lefties say this isn't their fault.
EMD said...
FBI seeks 12 man sleeper cell.
I'm not sold on this, because I've seen nothing else corroborating the report. Yet.
Standard CYA when you've really screwed up.
Consider the SS response after Heydrich was hit
Geography lesson for CEO-MMP: Lowell is about 30 miles from Boston, which is feasible commuting distance and makes Lowell generally within the Greater Boston Area. Albany is 150 miles from New York City. So a Lowellian saying he/she lives "outside Boston" makes sense in a way that an Albanyan saying he/she lives "outside New York City" doesn't.
In 2012, the four hour point was right at the peak for number of finishers. Typically the peak is about 15 minutes sooner, but that would be a good time for maximum, or close to maximum, casualties.
Ignorance is Bliss,
Semi-automatic, as opposed to a revolver.
The Godfather said...
Geography lesson for CEO-MMP: Lowell is about 30 miles from Boston, which is feasible commuting distance and makes Lowell generally within the Greater Boston Area. Albany is 150 miles from New York City. So a Lowellian saying he/she lives "outside Boston" makes sense in a way that an Albanyan saying he/she lives "outside New York City" doesn't."
True enough. I've just lived in this area a long time and have never heard anyone refer to Lowell as being "outside Boston" or "just outside Boston" like that.
Bostonians will do things like that. Boston is, after all, the hub of...something. Of course, the hub is the slowest part of the wheel.
exhelodrvr1 said...
In 2012, the four hour point was right at the peak for number of finishers. Typically the peak is about 15 minutes sooner, but that would be a good time for maximum, or close to maximum, casualties."
You don't say? What about adding in all those people who've left Fenway and drifted along to join the atmosphere?
The thing Ignorance is Bliss seemed to not be aware of is the sheer number of spectators hanging around. I highly doubt the goal was to kill/maim runners, the goal was to kill/maim whoever was around.
By the way...little know fact, apparently, but you can run the Boston Marathon if you don't qualify.
BAA will let you run if you're raising money for charity. All you have to do is raise the funds and agree you'll finish in 6 hours.
In 2010 over 2000 people did this, raising over $14 million.
What was the nationality of the foreigner? I'm betting that some nationalities don't get the not-American pass......Doesn't Boston stagger the starting times? The runners that were finishing when the bomb went off didn't look like sluggards.
A good day for that guy to not be an American!
"It was the COEXIST bumper sticker that saved the SUV driver's life!"
Or so sez the COEXIST guy whose car just got hijacked by people who are not at all interested in coexistence. Keep calm, carry on, and don't worry about the cognitive dissonance.
CEO,
Althouse is not a located near Boston, I made the assumption of a national audience in which the majority of readers of the blog are not from New England. If this was a 'local' blog, I would of just said I was from Lowell. OK. That is why I said Lowell was outside of Boston. OK.
The clear inference is that Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were motivated by a specific hatred of Americans... in case you'd been led to think that the Chechen dispute is with Russia.
Yes . . . and the slightly less clear inference is that the bombing probably wasn't motivated by their Chechen-ness.
Acting alone? I think not.
Leaving aside whether or not there is an express conspiracy to commit this act, how is that two refugees who were welcomed into this country along with numerous other family members, and did not want for shelter, food, education, nice clothes, cars, etc., HOW IS IT that they arrive at the idea that a mass killing of fellow citizens is acceptable?
This is where the COEXIST mindset leads. It celebrates ignorant brain dead hostility, allows it to go unquestioned and unchecked, just because someone's cultural identity feelings might be hurt.
Those who expect a clearcut answer to whether or not the bombers were controlled from the outside are likely to be disappointed.
I imagine this falls into a gray area where they had extremist contacts, probably they had some coaching, perhaps a few others knew of their plan, but it's not like they picked up their top-secret al-Qaeda/Chechen bombing assignment with complete instructions from a drop in Inman Square.
Besides I would note that it's been seven months since the 9-11 Benghazi attack and we still can't figure out who ordered the military to stand down from supporting an ambassador and other Americans under Islamic attack.
If Tamerlan went to Russia for 6 months and was allowed to return to the United States, apparently Russia didn't put him on a watch list either.
Althouse: The clear inference is that Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were motivated by a specific hatred of Americans... in case you'd been led to think that the Chechen dispute is with Russia.
Balfegor: Yes . . . and the slightly less clear inference is that the bombing probably wasn't motivated by their Chechen-ness.
And another slightly less clear inference is that it might have been motivated by their religion:
...we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it...
Bin Laden et al. (1998)
-- http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
Or so sez the COEXIST guy whose car just got hijacked by people who are not at all interested in coexistence. Keep calm, carry on, and don't worry about the cognitive dissonance.
This blog needs a sarcasm font.
^Sorry.
When I heard that the driver was unharmed AND the told him that they were the bombers, my first instinct was that they let him live because they needed him. I think they wanted him to call the police and let them know how to ID the bombers. I think they wanted to go out in a blaze of glory.
As for other comment details: The peak time for runners comming in is around 3:40 (from the start) so the bombers were off by about 20-30 minutes if we assume they wanted to kill runners. I've looked at these numbers a lot since I've run Boston three times and the finish time distrubution is not symetrical. 3:30-4:00 is the largest cohort but the 3:00-3:30 is a lot larger than 4:00-4:30 group--pretty much the opposite of normal marathons.
As for Lowell, it is 30 miles from Boston while Albany is 150 from NYC. Our town of Chelmsford shares a border with Lowell and we consider ourselves to be a sort of outter ring of Boston suburbs.
What difference does it make why the did it?!? There are 4 dead Americans or legal residents! Have you no shame?
dbp said...
When I heard that the driver was unharmed AND the told him that they were the bombers, my first instinct was that they let him live because they needed him. I think they wanted him to call the police and let them know how to ID the bombers. I think they wanted to go out in a blaze of glory.
Maybe. Or he was using "American" colloquially and the driver was also Muslim.
A further detail is that when they jacked the Mercedes SUV, one of them went in the Mercedes and one followed in a Honda. If they already had a car, why steal another? Okay, so maybe they were worried that the police had IDed their car, but then why not just steal a new set of plates? Or if you steal a car, why something relativily distinctive like a Mercedes SUV and why identify yourself to the driver?
dbp,
2012 results
If the assumption was that the maximum amount of casualties would coincide with when the most people were finishing, and you were basing it off of 2012, the four hour point would be right about when to do it.
http://www.marathonguide.com/results/browse.cfm?MIDD=15120416
Geoff Matthews said...
So, can we charge him with treason yet?
He took the oath of citizenship last year. What's the likelihood that he wasn't sincere when he took it?
There is a further probationary period after becoming a citizen; one or two years, I cannot recall.
It is true that if you based things on 2012, then four hours would be the best time to attack. The problem is that 2012 was a very unusual year, very hot for marathon running. This year and most others the peak would be around 3:40. Also, it is better to err on the side of too early than too late since the volume is higher half an hour before the peak than half an hour after--by a lot.
And if you were a novice at setting up a bomb at the finish line of a marathon, there's a pretty good chance you would just look at the most recent event, and base your plan off of that. As their botched getaway showed, they were pretty clearly novices at this process.
exhelodrvr1, good point.
I was thinking along similar lines. My assumption was that the bombers messed-up in one of two ways:
1. They got the time right, but due to bad planning, just couldn't get to the places they needed to be at on time. My wife tries to get to the finish area half an hour before I am due because it takes 20 minutes to work her way to the edge of the road.
Or
2. They just didn't know much about the marathon and they took the times from last year's race, which happened to be an odd year.
I guess a 3rd option is that they didn't care about who they hurt, runners or spectators. They just wanted to disrupt an event with a lot of media coverage. After all, there is no point in the race (other than the start and first few miles) in which there are more runners than spectators for a given stretch of road. In the home stretch, I would estimate the spectators outnumber the runners 20 to 1 and I finish in the meaty-middle of the bell-curve.
The more I think about it, if they had attacked in Hopkintown (at the start), it would have created much more chaos and that is the place to be if your target is runners.
One possible motive for anti-US sentiment among Chechen Muslims: the US is alleged to have helped Russia in the 1996 missile assassination of Dzhokhar Dudayev (the Chechen leader who led the secession from Russia in the early 90s, and after whom Dzhokhar Tzarnaev is very likely named), either by supplying the technology used to pinpoint Dudayev's satellite phone calls or by intercepting his signal by US satellite and transmitting his location to Russia. See: http://tinyurl.com/crgyggn (Network World, November 26, 2001, via Google Books).
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