No sympathy for Lance on this one. If he had to be the best biker then he had to apparently be the best doper too. Now he is trying to give the best mea culpa, I suppose.
The sports media is at fault in this mess too. Why? Because, they are the ones that build up these people to garner ratings. The more popular a sports personality is, the more people will watch them perform, thus large advertising revenue. Perfect example of this is the Mark McGuire/Sammy Sosa duel for 62 home runs. That was a made for tv movie throughout that season.
Now that they are retired, the sports media is doing their level best to tear them down. If it had not been the steroids, it would have been something else.
The same thing with Barry Bonds. In that case the media had a hate on for Bonds, because he would not give interviews and get asked stupid and redundant questions from every so-called high powered (in their own minds) sportswriter and TV sports personalities with a personal agenda.
In the end it is all about the sportswriter or TV sports person. Yes the same thing went on during Babe Ruth's time, but the media loved him and covered up a lot of his transgressions, because he gave them colorful copy. Cross them and the person that did that gets the wipe out treatment.
I am not saying that Lance Armstrong did not take or take those drugs and the other allegations that are being thrown out there. If he had not told some stupid sports reporter to get lost, he would still have all of those Tour de France titles and still be the darling of the bicycling world.
Confession tour then trial of public opinion then actual criminal trial then civil trials then appeals then second confession tour telling "real" truth (usually accompanied by book publication) then prison time and/or obscurity. If he's lucky maybe an appearance on some reality show....
Can we just cut to the chase (I.e. poverty, prison and obscurity)?
Frankly, I'm not prepared to accept his confession. Given the hounding he's suffered, when as far as I know, they still have no actual proof that he doped, I view this as on a par with a strategic plea bargain to avoid still more harrassment. We see people "confess" to crimes all the time to avoid being persecuted by the government in trials they (the confessed "criminals") can't possibly win despite such niggling issues as actual innnocence. Maybe Armstrong doped. And maybe he didn't. But it's clear that certain parties were never going to give up until he admitted to it whether it happened or not.
We know public figures use compelling stories to manipulate us. This is why It is important for the American people and American press to stop caring about the family lives of politicians.
Welcome to TV sports. It's ALL suspect. They're all doping. See those thick necks on the college football team? Doping. Funny how the guy managed to put on so much weight in sophomore year? Doping.
It's all a bunch of shit. Bread and circuses, for the mob.
Alex said... Matt - every single last one of them is a doper.
But not every one of them sued a newspaper for libel despite knowing it was true. Not every one trashed the reputations of Betsy Andreu, Emma O'Reilly, Mike Anderson and others. Not every one of them ruined Greg Lemond's bicycle business.
Cycling is a dirty, dirty sport. If it weren't so Eurotrash it would give itself the sporting "death-penalty" (or its corporate sponsors pull their money) until the dopers were flushed from the sport. And then start over, like the SMU football or USF basketball programs.
Oh, well, I still have my poster if Greg Lemond sprinting past the Arc d'Triomphe.
Well, yeah...he had to crush his accusers like bugs because...turns out that US Postal Service sponsorship exposes Armstrong to federal fraud charges. Man could be spending the rest of his life in court and making restitutions.
I had to clean Diet Mountain Dew off my computer screen when I read this:
To succeed in either endeavor will require Armstrong to do far more than confess his doping and express regret on television. He’ll have to repay a portion of the roughly $35 million in federal funds that bankrolled the U.S. Postal Service cycling team,
What the f***? The federal government spent $35 million of our tax dollars to sponsor a cycling team? Don’t they realize how many separate international vacations for the First Family that could fund?
Well, yeah...he had to crush his accusers like bugs because...turns out that US Postal Service sponsorship exposes Armstrong to federal fraud charges. Man could be spending the rest of his life in court and making restitutions.
What’s the over/under on how long before his apologists accuse the prosecutors of “bullying” Armstrong?
"Armstrong was the kingpin of them all, so no dice. Besides, Appeal to Common Practice is a logical fallacy."
It is a fallacy if presented as evidence of support for the practice but not if it is factually correct that all TDF winners have been dopers. To state it is not to support it or condone it.
I don't understand how "all of the WINNERS doped" is an argument to minimize what Armstrong and others did. They're winners because they doped. It's not like the pool of winners were pre-selected and then they all doped. They stole the places on the podium from a) the guys who didn't dope and b) the guys who, if no one doped, would succeed due to things like a naturally higher hemocrit, ability to recover, etc.
Also, elite cycling is a team sport. Armstrong bullied his teammates into doping because it helped him win and he typically won due to his dominant team - they consistently controlled the race.
To act like it was a race between Armstrong or Ulrich or Basso and they all doped so Armstrong is still the "winner" is simply false.
Kris: Nowhere have I minimized what was done. I am simply pointing out what all who have followed cycling have known for quite a number of years. To recognize is not to excuse.
Peleton riders, domestiques, doped as well as did the leaders. The peleton riders doped so that they could lead out their elite riders who also doped. The podium winners could not get there without the team and the team could not get them there without doing the dope themselves. Many good books on this subject.
I don't think that comment was meant as an excuse, and neither was mine. It's just the state of sports these days. THEY are unworthy of the money and adulation they get. IMHO.
Who cares? This is sport that followed but about 0.00001% of this country's population. My main concern is that the USPS wasted $32m sponsoring this nonsense.
Who cares? This is sport that followed but about 0.00001% of this country's population. My main concern is that the USPS wasted $32m sponsoring this nonsense.
I thought it was $35 million but I agree with your priorities. It’s an obscene amount of money spent on a frivolity by a federal government that is running trillion dollar deficits while the postal service is cutting back services.
Meh! Who pays attention to a bunch of spandex-clad metrosexuals anyway. The Tour due France? It is to laugh! Real men ride the Isle of Man TT. Lance hasn't the balls.
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No sympathy for Lance on this one. If he had to be the best biker then he had to apparently be the best doper too. Now he is trying to give the best mea culpa, I suppose.
Matt - every single last one of them is a doper.
So Lance Armstrong is to become the Frank Abagnale of professional cycling?
Catch me if you can.
Barry Bonds could not be reached for comment.
For 7 years there are NO Tour De France winners-- because the 2nd placers were blood doping too.
Mostly, I'm just disappointed that he decided to confess on Oprah.
The sports media is at fault in this mess too. Why? Because, they are the ones that build up these people to garner ratings. The more popular a sports personality is, the more people will watch them perform, thus large advertising revenue. Perfect example of this is the Mark McGuire/Sammy Sosa duel for 62 home runs. That was a made for tv movie throughout that season.
Now that they are retired, the sports media is doing their level best to tear them down. If it had not been the steroids, it would have been something else.
The same thing with Barry Bonds. In that case the media had a hate on for Bonds, because he would not give interviews and get asked stupid and redundant questions from every so-called high powered (in their own minds) sportswriter and TV sports personalities with a personal agenda.
In the end it is all about the sportswriter or TV sports person. Yes the same thing went on during Babe Ruth's time, but the media loved him and covered up a lot of his transgressions, because he gave them colorful copy. Cross them and the person that did that gets the wipe out treatment.
I am not saying that Lance Armstrong did not take or take those drugs and the other allegations that are being thrown out there. If he had not told some stupid sports reporter to get lost, he would still have all of those Tour de France titles and still be the darling of the bicycling world.
And how many guys are going to watch Oprah (cause not that many women follow this, I'm guessing)?
Confession tour then trial of public opinion then actual criminal trial then civil trials then appeals then second confession tour telling "real" truth (usually accompanied by book publication) then prison time and/or obscurity. If he's lucky maybe an appearance on some reality show....
Can we just cut to the chase (I.e. poverty, prison and obscurity)?
Frankly, I'm not prepared to accept his confession. Given the hounding he's suffered, when as far as I know, they still have no actual proof that he doped, I view this as on a par with a strategic plea bargain to avoid still more harrassment. We see people "confess" to crimes all the time to avoid being persecuted by the government in trials they (the confessed "criminals") can't possibly win despite such niggling issues as actual innnocence. Maybe Armstrong doped. And maybe he didn't. But it's clear that certain parties were never going to give up until he admitted to it whether it happened or not.
I would have bet my left nut he was innocent.
Seven tours de french in a row?
Come on Mr Jones... he may not have been caught riding dirty... but... Seven?
btw... Lance Armstrong is the perfect name for a porn star... or is that porn stud?... I'm assuming only the women are porn stars.
I would have bet my left nut he was innocent.
He rode that cancer survival halo like he was breaking away...
omg... what if the cancer has been a hoax? its the perfect cover.
Everything about Lance is suspect.
the peloton..
Lance Armstrong, Manti T'eo
We know public figures use compelling stories to manipulate us. This is why It is important for the American people and American press to stop caring about the family lives of politicians.
@RuthAnne - At least he wasn't caught flying an airliner. That we know of.....
Welcome to TV sports. It's ALL suspect. They're all doping. See those thick necks on the college football team? Doping. Funny how the guy managed to put on so much weight in sophomore year? Doping.
It's all a bunch of shit. Bread and circuses, for the mob.
I fucked up. I trusted Lance.
Otter Defense /over
Alex said...
Matt - every single last one of them is a doper.
But not every one of them sued a newspaper for libel despite knowing it was true. Not every one trashed the reputations of Betsy Andreu, Emma O'Reilly, Mike Anderson and others. Not every one of them ruined Greg Lemond's bicycle business.
Lance went WAY beyond simply denying it.
I thought Oprah retired.
I assume he's going to cry.
Cycling is a dirty, dirty sport. If it weren't so Eurotrash it would give itself the sporting "death-penalty" (or its corporate sponsors pull their money) until the dopers were flushed from the sport. And then start over, like the SMU football or USF basketball programs.
Oh, well, I still have my poster if Greg Lemond sprinting past the Arc d'Triomphe.
"I was so fast, and now I am so sad."
Oh...so he's still a lying sack of shit!
don't much care about the cheating in an all cheating sport.
but Armstrong was an aggressive asshole who tried to destroy people who told the truth about him. that's the real crime.
"Lance went WAY beyond simply denying it."
Well, yeah...he had to crush his accusers like bugs because...turns out that US Postal Service sponsorship exposes Armstrong to federal fraud charges. Man could be spending the rest of his life in court and making restitutions.
To say for the 500th time - not everyone doped. Look up Christophe Bassons and read about how Armstrong treated him.
I had to clean Diet Mountain Dew off my computer screen when I read this:
To succeed in either endeavor will require Armstrong to do far more than confess his doping and express regret on television. He’ll have to repay a portion of the roughly $35 million in federal funds that bankrolled the U.S. Postal Service cycling team,
What the f***? The federal government spent $35 million of our tax dollars to sponsor a cycling team? Don’t they realize how many separate international vacations for the First Family that could fund?
We really do have morons in charge.
every single last one of them is a doper
Armstrong was the kingpin of them all, so no dice. Besides, Appeal to Common Practice is a logical fallacy.
Well, yeah...he had to crush his accusers like bugs because...turns out that US Postal Service sponsorship exposes Armstrong to federal fraud charges. Man could be spending the rest of his life in court and making restitutions.
What’s the over/under on how long before his apologists accuse the prosecutors of “bullying” Armstrong?
Thorley, Virtually all of his apologists have gotten amnesia and don't remember being so. I would LOVE to hear from Sheryl Crowe on this sociopath.
This also explains why cyclists are so egocentric and act like the rules don't apply them and are so easily set off.
Doping rage.
Cycling. It's not a sport, it's a disease.
PaddyO: Yes. Had Armstrong not doped you would not know his name. The way to the podium, the only way, has been to dope up
Kris: You are right about Bassons, and others. I think the point being made is that the winners all doped. Bassons was a domestique.
"Armstrong was the kingpin of them all, so no dice. Besides, Appeal to Common Practice is a logical fallacy."
It is a fallacy if presented as evidence of support for the practice but not if it is factually correct that all TDF winners have been dopers. To state it is not to support it or condone it.
I don't understand how "all of the WINNERS doped" is an argument to minimize what Armstrong and others did. They're winners because they doped. It's not like the pool of winners were pre-selected and then they all doped. They stole the places on the podium from a) the guys who didn't dope and b) the guys who, if no one doped, would succeed due to things like a naturally higher hemocrit, ability to recover, etc.
Also, elite cycling is a team sport. Armstrong bullied his teammates into doping because it helped him win and he typically won due to his dominant team - they consistently controlled the race.
To act like it was a race between Armstrong or Ulrich or Basso and they all doped so Armstrong is still the "winner" is simply false.
Kris: Nowhere have I minimized what was done. I am simply pointing out what all who have followed cycling have known for quite a number of years. To recognize is not to excuse.
Peleton riders, domestiques, doped as well as did the leaders. The peleton riders doped so that they could lead out their elite riders who also doped. The podium winners could not get there without the team and the team could not get them there without doing the dope themselves. Many good books on this subject.
Appeal to Common Practice is a logical fallacy.
I don't think that comment was meant as an excuse, and neither was mine. It's just the state of sports these days. THEY are unworthy of the money and adulation they get. IMHO.
Who cares? This is sport that followed but about 0.00001% of this country's population. My main concern is that the USPS wasted $32m sponsoring this nonsense.
Who cares? This is sport that followed but about 0.00001% of this country's population. My main concern is that the USPS wasted $32m sponsoring this nonsense.
I thought it was $35 million but I agree with your priorities. It’s an obscene amount of money spent on a frivolity by a federal government that is running trillion dollar deficits while the postal service is cutting back services.
Meh! Who pays attention to a bunch of spandex-clad metrosexuals anyway.
The Tour due France? It is to laugh!
Real men ride the Isle of Man TT.
Lance hasn't the balls.
Why am I supposed to care that athletes are doing that?
No, seriously - why?
I Armstrong's book "It's Not About the Bike". Boy was I fooled! It was really all about Lance!
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