Writes one Metafilter commenter, who gets 3 "favorite" votes from the community and — 8 minutes later — this response:
TreatingThe response now has 33 "favorite" votes.OWSthe Tea Party movement as "potential criminal and terrorist threat" was exactly the right thing to do. No one knew whether these protests were going to stay peaceful or not.OWSThe Koch Bros. certainly wanted it to turn into a phenomenon of national civil unrest. Why the FBI wasn't supposed to treat it as if it had the potential to go that way is beyond me.
FTFY
पोस्ट्स
१९४ टिप्पण्या:
Well, except for the fact that the number of rapes, robberies, assaults, and attacks against police officers at Tea Party rallies remains at zero.
These people think they're super-duper clever.
They're idiots.
I went to a few tea party rallies and meetings and I never got the subversive memo. In fact they seemed way more interested in local elections of County Commissioner, getting people to run for school boards and...
OMG, the tea party was behind the Connecticut school shooting.
"Fixed That For You" is passive-aggressive hipster doofusism at its finest.
Years of intense and arduous research has led me to the conclusion that 90% of people are idiots.
It is a proven scientific fact that the use of the "FTFY" symmetry is of tremendous educational and confirmatory value to persons, such as myself, who are barely paying attention and hoping to pay even less attention in the future.
FTFY
For The Foolish Young
But....but... but that cannot be right because we agree with the Tea Party!
Crotch....crotch... crotch that cannot be left because they disagree with the Coffee Party!
FTFY
The Koch Bros. certainly wanted it to turn into a phenomenon of national civil unrest
Right!
And this idiot has all sorts of proof of this too!
harrogate said...
But....but... but that cannot be right because we agree with the Tea Party!
You do realize that nobody in the Tea Party said they wanted any sort of civil unrest, but people in the OWS movement did, right?
Or are you happy just being the resident idiot today?
FTFY is right. I guess the only reason you link to metafilter is to provide a window into the mind of the delusional left, right, Ann? The brain-cell count over there is pretty much running on empty..
Nah - if you want delusional check out the Democratic Underground. Them's some wacky puppies...
Most of what's at Metafilter is not political. It's a great source of links and many really smart comments.
When they do go political, it's nearly a closed circle of left-liberal mutual affirmation, but that can be great material to bring over here for inspection.
Metafilter is a great, great website. I've been reading it much longer than I've been blogging. (And I've been blogging for almost 9 years.)
It often seems as though Althouse set up this blog to be her own personal little Metafilter. Not sure if that worked out as expected or not.
"When they do go political, it's nearly a closed circle of left-liberal mutual affirmation"
And here, the politically-oriented posts are the ones most likely to generate lengthy, vicious, vile, and dumbfoundingly stupid comment streams. I ask, O students of humanity, why is that? Why does politics turn so many people into sniggering baboons?
Why does Obama turn so many into sniggering baboons?
FTFY.
Not all of OWS was like this; the problem was that they didn't police their own.
Well, and the rapes. Rape has a way of turning people against a movement.
@moose/
I head on over to DU when I want some laughs--NEVER fails..
Any movement that allows Hatman in it is going to end badly.
When they do go political, it's nearly a closed circle of left-liberal mutual affirmation, but that can be great material to bring over here for inspection.
Lol. No offense and congrats on finding good material or ideas wherever they exist. But use of the word "inspection" comes dangerously close to Bill Maher's description of Glenn Beck's descent into madness as "playing with his poop."
Careful.
Not surprising, Ritmo, that you would find a vicious stupid bastard like Maher a kindred spirit.
Birds of a feather... !
Amazing that even this post can generate the usual argument.
One thing about politics... once you've listened to somebody talk about their political ideas for five minutes, you know everything they have to say, and ever will have to say, on the subject.
Most boring subject in the world.
Not all of OWS was like this; the problem was that they didn't police their own.
And not all Tea Partiers are guilty of rape, like Michael Kobulincky, either.
He is facing a myriad of felony charges, including kidnapping, sexual assault and sex with a foreign object.
Apparently, reading the Constitution does different things to different people.
Oh Christ. So why not castigate Althouse for talking about politics or anyone else who mentions what you tyrannically deem to be the "unmentionable" topic?
And how "predictable" is it that you do this?
Please get a hobby. For the love of the God that you claim to pay homage to so dutifully.
Maher's very successful for a reason. He's actually funny and generally on-target. He gets interviews with people from across the political spectrum willing to show up and debate. No wonder you are jealous when he is mentioned in the same breath as the paranoid conspiratorialist Glenn Beck that, I take it, might be more to your liking.
And emotional. Beck is pretty emotional, too. And loves a good display.
More signs of "kindred spiritedness" to someone...?
Shouting, what are your plans for today? Can we start off with that, instead? Can you tell me what the weather is like in Woodstock and whether gigs or practice sessions are on the calendar?
Anything to deviate from those crankier fixations. Please, let's have an actual conversation. I realize that it has to be about the things you consider it appropriate to talk about, namely yourself and what you're doing. But I'm flexible that way.
Trolls envy trolls with TV shows.
Not surprising.
Tim, did your psychology degree come in the mail or did you print it out on-line?
Or maybe you meant that Shouting Thomas is a troll who envies the TV troll Glenn Beck.
That wouldn't be a nice thing to say about Shouting Thomas.
OWs's stated goal was to cause riots in an attempt to discredit the police and foment a populist leftwing revolution against the capitalists. That's what all the demands for free shit were about; extortion by a mob. Give us free stuff or we'll destroy property.
Let us not forget that the Democrats and their press operatives at CNN, NBC, CBS and the other -BS propaganda operations were completely on board with it until they started committed lots of crimes and showed their true colors as 2nd rate brownshirts.
For all the Leftist knock-kneed, limp-wristed bed wetting over the Tea Party, it would be interesting to see confirmed evidence of violence committed by a Tea Partier at a Tea Party event, like the multiple acts of violence committed by the Occupy Wall Street denizens.
Note, for the record, I am NOT a "Tea Partier."
In their possession at the time of their arrest were many of the necessary ingredients for ricin, which they intended to use to poison the public by spreading on roads and elsewhere. One senescent shooter boasted “I could shoot ATF and IRS all day long. All the judges and the DOJ and the attorneys and prosecutors.” Just in case that wasn’t clear enough, one stated “There is no way for us, as militiamen, to save this country, to save Georgia, without doing something that’s highly, highly illegal: murder,” … “When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people have got to die.” Link
Whoa!
And, of course, "He’s also on government disability."
Trolls must be scouring the internet for confirmed evidence of Tea Partier violence at a Tea Party event similar to an Occupier violence at Occupy Wall Street event.
While we all wait, we can play the Thomas Friedman Op-Ed Generator, with endless permutations, each equally dead on. It's hilarious how easily mocked are "thinkers" like Thomas Friedman.
For all the Leftist knock-kneed, limp-wristed bed wetting...
Tim, are you saying that Leftists are gay?
Why do you use a pejorative remarksl? Do you hate gays?
"Federal officials say the men are part of a fringe militia group."
Troll-lo-lo-lo-lol.
Try harder.
Trolls with bad grammar.
Public school trolls.
Lol.
That "op-ed generator" was a real knee-slapper, Tim!
But why do they list the titles of real NYT articles in the bottom? Why do they maintain as identical a format as that?
I guess that, as with Faux News, they'd like to blur the lines between parody, fantasy and reality as closely as possible.
yes, because MORE FREE SHIT is exactly the same message as LESS FREE SHIT.
You go, Tim! Tim the Typer!
(Now feel free to correct me for not saying "typist", silly douche).
I used "typer" because it sounded like Bob the Builder.
Tim learned his awesome typing skillz in private, vocational school.
BTW, Tim - I used the spelling "skillz" ironically. Purposely.
Tim, being a grammar Nazi doesn't fool anyone into thinking your remark wasn't homophobic.
Man up to it, man.
Trolls still can't find confirmed evidence of violence committed by a Tea Partier at a Tea Party event, like the multiple acts of violence committed by the Occupy Wall Street denizens.
Keep looking, trolls.
And, of course, "He’s also on government disability."
so the worst you can find turns out to be one of yours. whoa!
"The response now has 33 "favorite" votes."
Which is exactly the reason for treating OWS as a threat - it was organized from above. There were organizers behind it that present threat. FBI knows the difference between genuine people movement and useful idiots "movement"
What is really interesting is the OWS is much more like the original Tea Party then the current group that is using the name. People seem to forget how much "criminal and terrorist" activities were involved in the formation of our country. The current protests are nothing compared to what happened then.
If ya were around back in the day, would you have cheered or scorned what the Sons of Liberty were doing? Based on things said in other threads, it seems that a lot Althousians would've been Tories...
you fancy yourself as a tax protester PP? hilarious.
Tim,
Iz you (r u?) saying that threats of violence are legal and acceptable?
I tried really hard to make my grammar correctly sounding on that one. Please, please go easy on me, Mr.
I think Tim is saying that threats of violence are good because they are less "limp-wristed".
Those crazy law abiding tax payers with their American flags. Watch out.
The OWS creeps might rape you or shit on the sidewalk or steal your I-pad, but they are soooo kool.
The pro-democrat media says so.
Trolls still can't find confirmed evidence of violence committed by a Tea Partier at a Tea Party event, like the multiple acts of violence committed by the Occupy Wall Street denizens.
Keep looking, trolls.
you fancy yourself as a tax protester PP?
Uhm, yeah. If you really know me like you say you do, then you know that I'm very much in favor of a major overhaul of our tax system. I've often said that we need to throw away the income tax and replace it with this. Where have you ever seen me express support for the current tax laws/policy? Please provide a link, 'cause you either took me out of context or I was extremely unclear about my stance.
But then again, I haven't actually done any "protesting" (ie, attending a public rally) on the issue for quite a while. Is THAT what your lil' dig is about? That since I haven't actually "protested" it for a while I shouldn't bring it up now?
*rolls eyes*
purplepenquin said...
What is really interesting is the OWS is much more like the original Tea Party then the current group that is using the name. People seem to forget how much "criminal and terrorist" activities were involved in the formation of our country. The current protests are nothing compared to what happened then.
If ya were around back in the day, would you have cheered or scorned what the Sons of Liberty were doing? Based on things said in other threads, it seems that a lot Althousians would've been Tories.
Hardly. You're grasp of history is a little off.
The original tea party was a tax protest by a small group of the "Sons of Liberty". There was a very real debate at the time within their ranks about destroying private property-the tea. The OWS movement had no qualms about destroying public or private property. Or theft, rape, or murder for that matter.
Democrats and the Pravda press consider basic and simple dissent as terrorism.
How dare you disagree with the group-think vilification machine.
The real Tea Party blocked a port, seized a private ship, threw private goods overboard, in costume, while beating drums!
"...then you know that I'm very much in favor of a major overhaul of our tax system. I've often said that we need to throw away the income tax and replace it with this."
I agree.
Taxing consumption is much better than taxing productivity.
Too bad too many are too wedded to the notion of taxing productivity, if only to punish those who are too productive.
The original tea partiers worked for a living and weren't Marxists, so no comparison.
The real Tea Party blocked a port, seized a private ship, threw private goods overboard, in costume, while beating drums!
And once the Republikinder raise our taxes on January 1, we should consider similar measures. Amazing that the shills here missed that whole part.
They are just not patriotic.
But....but... but that cannot be right because we agree with the Tea Party!
harrogate: That's the stupid, lazy thinking your side indulged with Occupy. But what
I was on the left from high school on. I couldn't tell you how many meetings and marches I've been to.
I knew immediately Occupy was just another agitprop movement from the hardcore, revolutionary left. Go to the Occupy website and look at the Occupy logo/slogan: an upraised fist in the red/black colors of communists and anarchists. The slogan now is: "The revolution continues worldwide." When Occupy first emerged it was: "the only solution is WorldRevolution."
If one had even slight Google skills the Occupy trail led to AdBusters, a revolutionary publication in the Situationist mold. Here's its article on Occupy "Crises Can Be Openings" (sound familiar to the leftist brain trust running Obama?) with the usual leftist cant about “the death knell of capitalism,” “collective power,” “opportunities for radicals,” “organizing for a postcapitalist future,” “revolutions,” and so forth concluding with a call to “grasp the many vulnerabilities of the current order and devise avenues for fracture and revolt.”
But, harrogate, you are either too stupid and lazy to know this, or you do know it, and you are dishonest and hypocritical. Either way you are entirely typical of people who attack the Tea Party.
The original tea partiers worked for a living and weren't Marxists, so no comparison.
You mean, they weren't opposed to the writings of a man who wouldn't be born for another forty or fifty years? Wow, that's deep, Sergeant. Good point.
But I suppose you'll tell me that they were somehow opposed to that clause in the Constitution about "providing for the general welfare".
Make your point as desperately and as inaccurately as you choose to.
Um, yeah, Fox confuses fantasy with reality, vs the rest of them that are just the propaganda arm of the most, er rather, least transparent misadministration in history.
I'm sure if you did a background check on every TEA member you'd find a few with some dodgy bits, but when has there ever been a TEA rally with trouble? Heck, they leave the venues cleaner than they found them. The OWS? Not so much. Planned on blowing up any bridges lately?
Ritmo - you do realize that for the last 4 years the democrat chorus have done nothing but vilify the "Bush tax cuts".
Now that they are set to expire, those very same tax cuts are A-OK!
Got it.
Was it the Pravda press that told you Obama was in Hawaii golfing as we speak, April?
The vehemence of the left towards the TEA Party remains beyond belief. They create fantasies about what the TEA Party said or did that had absolutely nothing to do with its actual message nor the activities of its members.
Hallucination as ideology.
Violence at Tea Party rally: bare-knuckle politics in the streets.
April - if you don't mind me asking, what's your income?
Why are you defending tax breaks and shelters for people who generally don't want them and understand that their "need" for them is much less?
Why do Republikinder keep worshipping constituencies that, by and large, don't agree with their agenda?
Maybe you should try to think like a rich person before telling me and the country what their interest and the national interest in them should be?
Or just go watch a reality TV show and pretend you're the Tevye of Tennessee. Just waiting to become a rich woman. Yubby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dum.
Shorter Republikinder credo:
Guys, if we don't treat the Rich like a persecuted group who needs defending at all times and from all other priorities, then they will never like us and we will never be like them!
Still waiting for the trickle down wealth.... Still..... Waiting.....
"In Fort Lauderdale, Fla., however, counterprotesters from ANSWER – an antiwar, pro-immigration reform group – also took to the streets, with one blaring, “Amnesty, yes. Racists, no,” from a bullhorn. When two Tea Party activists entered their protest zone, a fight erupted as Tea Party and ANSWER protesters kicked and punched one another and spilled into the middle of a busy intersection."
Ah, yes. Provoked by counter-protestors from the professional Left.
Try harder.
Otherwise, I'm getting on with my day. Got an NFL game to go see.
Nice seats, too.
The Republican Tax Plan in a nutshell amounts to simple hero worship.
Damn the rest of the country and their tax rates! Damn the economy! The rich need defending! They are under attack!
Inga -why are you so obsessed with such a trivial matter? I already answered your question. I (me, just me) thought that he was going back to HI to finish his vacation.
Do you have anything to say about Abound Solar and the $60 million dollars in stimulus funds that Obama gave to a rich heiress donor - that the tax payers are now on the hook to pay back?
Ritmo, If you understood economics and how revenue works you would understand that it's not about defending the over-taxed. It's about rejecting the idea that taxing the shit out of everyone will somehow help the economy.
It won't.
Trickle up poverty. No waiting. It's here.
Inga said...
"Still waiting for the trickle down wealth.... Still..... Waiting....."
Indeed. And under Obama-Care, health care providers will be waiting longer than most, as the only way to contain costs (as promised under the ACA) is to cut reimbursements for care.
Why cut reimbursements to providers for care?
Because labor is the highest factor of health care costs, and the factor growing at the fastest rate.
Lol.
Stupid nurses' unions supporting Obama-Care.
Screwed their own paychecks.
Lol.
Stupid nurses' unions.
Anyway, gotta run!
I really thought he was going back to join his wife, Inga.
April, THEN why did you state it in a manner that indicated you knew this for a fact? Perhaps because you hoped to generate even mor misinformation and animosity toward Obama, knowing it was your mistruth?
Think about why this type of thing may be unethical. What purpose does it serve?
I thought he was going back to join his wife, Inga.
No April, trickle UP poverty isn't here and you are not in the "UP" category.
Ritmo, If you understood economics and how revenue works you would understand that it's not about defending the over-taxed. It's about rejecting the idea that taxing the shit out of everyone will somehow help the economy.
It won't.
Who said "everyone"? Oh, that's right, you did.
You appeal to economics and don't understand the difference between disposable income and non-disposable income? How is that possible?
Perhaps words like "economics" and "understand" are just labels you throw around to make it seem like someone who disagrees with you doesn't know what they're talking about. It saves you from having to go into policy details that you aren't sure about.
Am I right?
I agree with both the goals and the methods of the TEA Party, and I respect those people I met at the rallies. I would be willing to have any one of them I met come into my home and stay a while.
Will you lefties say the same for your Occupy movement.
Will you lefties say the same for your Occupy movement.
Only if you offer them a shower, a shave, a nice warm bed to sleep in and a cup of tea!
I'm sure there are better behaved and courteous people and less well behaved/courteous people at both crowds. But asking the circumstantially desperate to grovel is a bit shittier than recognizing that they're not in the best shape for anything, Baggie Guy.
"You appeal to economics and don't understand the difference between disposable income and non-disposable income?"
You haven't got a clue about this subject. Disposable income is the money you think failed people with failed ideas can spend better than the successful ones.
A question: Why do some people need to take money by force from others in the first place? Think of some people who do that, and ask; why don't they have and spend their own money on their ideas?
I agree with both the goals and the methods of the TEA Party, and I respect those people I met at the rallies. I would be willing to have any one of them I met come into my home and stay a while.
Translation: Before I was rich, I looked and acted rich!
I made the mistake of mentioning Glenn Beck earlier. Would you have done the same for him back in his alcoholic days?
Ritmo you are clueless.
We are not talking about disposable income. We are talking about punitive tax rates.
We are talking about the hypocrisy of the left's 4 years of whining about those evil Bush Tax cuts. Now, suddenly, the Bush Tax cuts are necessary and the Pravda media and disingenuous Obama administration will now refer to the Bush tax cuts as the Obama tax cuts. Amazing.
As long as you keep looking down on others, then you are still a failure, Bag.
So Ritmo, It's clear you don't respect the people of Occupy anymore than I do. That's common ground: yeaaa!
Oh, ok April. Insert words like "punitive" and "Pravda" in there and now we know you don't know what you're talking about.
The rich don't agree with your idea that they are persecuted. Why not just offer one of them a blow-job? This foot kissing nonsense is really ridiculous. You should go all out to show how much you worship them.
No common ground here. It's clear that you don't know why the economic policies of the 19th century won't be re-enacted today.
But keep glorifying them. Hooray for the widespread poverty and boom-and-bust of the 1800s! Hooray!
The problem O ritmo, is that taxing the rich is not enough to solve our problems. If we don't make spending cuts, they are coming for more from all of us. The most lucrative tax base is the middle class. The spenders know this and they want more of it. In the hall of mirrors they create the illusion that they fighting for the working class, then when the smoke goes up they go in for the grab. Easy pasy, then they just blame the middle class tax hike on the Republicans unwillingness to compromise, but really it was the plan all along. China wants their money one way or the other and the ruling class doesn't really give a damn about the working class. Keep those blinders on.
Reading through Ritmo's posts, I realize just how frustrating it would be to actually engage him, since he is basing pretty much every statement on a misunderstanding of conservative and Republican principles.
Then, there's gems like this: "And once the Republikinder raise our taxes on January 1, we should consider similar measures" which show he can't even understand current events.
I've tried in the past engaging with some of the folks on the left that post here, but I really can't in good conscious see why folks are treating Ritmo like he is a serious person.
You appeal to economics and don't understand the difference between disposable income and non-disposable income? How is that possible?
Sheesh, just finished my coffee and already I've got to jump into a thread?
"Disposable income" is what's left over after taxes. I don't know how your incantations about it in any way address April's statement.
I think the term you're looking for is "discretionary income", which--unlike disposable income--is determined by the composition of spending determined by individuals themselves.
Perhaps you should heed your own words, Ritmo:
Perhaps words like "economics" and "understand" are just labels you throw around to make it seem like someone who disagrees with you doesn't know what they're talking about.
No one is saying no to spending cuts. That is a canard old enough to go back to the 1800s-era economic policies that Bag desires. They are offering spending reduction to revenue increase ratios of at least 2 to 1 or more.
It's the Republikinder who are kissing up to the wealth and saying no to any revenue. Actually it's not even all of them, just enough of them to keep wreaking havoc. They think money is more important than people and don't seem to understand that money serves no purpose by itself and cannot be made without people.
If you removed all the wealth from the top 2%, it would pay for about 8 months of government.
Obama and the left are fine with that.
"Easy pasy, then they just blame the middle class tax hike on the Republicans unwillingness to compromise, but really it was the plan all along."
Indeed. The democrats hide behind their "tax the rich" scheme, but they know the real economic sweet spot is the middle class.
Obama is saying no to all spending cuts. In fact, he wants another stimulus.
The original tea party was a tax protest by a small group of the "Sons of Liberty".
Speaking of history being a lil' off...the original tea party went waaay beyond just a protest. It was, by definition, an act of terrorism. And that wasn't the only violent act committed by the group during those times. Merchants were tar & feathered while their stores were burnt to the ground. Those weren't the acts of rogue individuals either, the group as a whole would organize boycotts and dispense punishment against those who disobeyed. There was just cause for the Crown to call 'em "Sons of Violence"
No surprise this is a surprise to ya. Most schools don't go too deeply into that part of our history, and thus the Boston Tea Party ends up being painted as just another protest.
The OWS movement had no qualms about destroying public or private property. Or theft, rape, or murder for that matter.
Just to clarify...you're saying that not only did the movement-as-a-whole engage in those crimes, but nobody in the group qualmed about any of it?
Ain't trying to change your mind or look for a fight...just wanna be clear on what your opinion is.
Whatever you want to call it Chip - some of them have more than enough of it to spend with and some have virtually none.
"They are offering spending reduction to revenue increase ratios of at least 2 to 1 or more.
It's the Republikinder who are kissing up to the wealth and saying no to any revenue."
-- Obama has -said- that is what he wants, yet he has refused to accept certain tax increases as actual revenue increases to be counted in that. He "gets that for free" in the negotiations. Again: Pay attention to current events if you want to talk about them.
April does not realize that stimulus spending =/= long-term budgeted expenditures such as Medicare, Medicaid or Defense, Chip. Wanna go after her for that?
I doubt it.
"Just to clarify...you're saying that not only did the movement-as-a-whole engage in those crimes, but nobody in the group qualmed about any of it?"
-- Leaders in the movement told raped women not to go to the police. It rotted from the head down. So, yes. Anyone who wanted to be taken seriously needed to step out of being a part of OWS and start a group that doesn't encourage victimized women to suffer in silence.
Matthew: Show me a non-Faux News approved source for that and I'll debate with it as if it's not just the daily and likely inaccurate Manufactured Outrage of the Day.
"...a misunderstanding of conservative and Republican principles."
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. A depression just ripe for ideological retrenchment!
"At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, "I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?"
"You get nothing," the president said. "I get that for free.""
Source.
So, as you can see, and anyone who has been paying attention before now: Obama has never negotiated once in good faith, and in fact, has demanded far more than he's been willing to counter offer. There's nothing to debate on the point: Obama has refused compromises, the Senate has refused to accept House proposals. Anyone watching can see that Democrats have sabotaged the process, either on purpose or out of incompetence.
All they have to do is recalibrate the formula to calculate the CPI, then eventually we all get kicked into higher tax brackets over time. Don't worry you will just choose to eat chicken instead of steak, in other words the real spending power of your money is being devalued even as you are pushed into a higher tax bracket. China is going to get their money, and you are going to eat chicken (maybe rice and beans in a few years, then brown bread and drippings), but don't worry you can afford to pay higher taxes, the CPI really measures actual inflation (wink wink).
Blogger Inga said...
Still waiting for the trickle down wealth.... Still..... Waiting.....
12/30/12 10:53 AM
__________________________________
Most on the left are waiting, waiting, waiting for the government to send you a check. You should have been working, working, working.
some of them have more than enough of it to spend...
I recently read a book called The Clash of Economic Ideas, which I recommend to anyone interested in a long view of economic policy debates. Even tho I'd kinda-sorta known it, I was still struck by how Ritmo's statement has been the focal point of these debates since the late Victorian era.
The basic source of disagreement, IMO, is b/w those who treat the "marginal utility of income" as independent of effort and those who view it as an inducement to effort.
Since the argument's been raging for 150 years or so, I don't expect a resolution here. But that doesn't mean it can't be argued pour le sport.
Trickle down wealth, I think, -is- actually visible in the higher average standard of living among the poor. We can do more for the poorest of the poor, but our lower middle class and not-living-on-the-streets poor are doing a hell of a lot better than in the 40s and 50s.
""They are offering spending reduction to revenue increase ratios of at least 2 to 1 or more."
Wow! I just spit a mouth full of caviar and Dom Pérignon all over my Ronald Reagan mouse pad.
Inga wrote:
Still waiting for the trickle down wealth.... Still..... Waiting.....
are poor people becoming wealthy through govt?
I'm still waiting for THAT trickle down.
April does not realize that stimulus spending =/= long-term budgeted expenditures such as Medicare, Medicaid or Defense, Chip. Wanna go after her for that?
She said that Obama wanted more stimulus spending. Didn't he specify that in his last budget proposal? Didn't he further ask for more stimulus spending as part of any "cliff-avoiding" deal? I'm pretty sure he did, so I don't see any reason to criticize April for saying so.
If your point is that we can't hope to bring the deficit under control w/o significant cuts in the 3 top spending items, which you listed, then you know I agree.
As I said in my last comment, the "austerity" budget doesn't bother me all that much, except for the adverse effects on the labor supply of doctors. It's hugely inferior to raising revenue by limiting deductions and by a wholesale reform of SS and Medicare, but it's better than doing nothing.
Lars, ah I see you think that the 47% which includes your grandmother should've worked till they dropped, right? Because the right is so sure that the left, 47% of America never worked hard.
Work hard or work smart? Perhaps that's what you meant.
Leaders in the movement told raped women not to go to the police. It rotted from the head down. So, yes. Anyone who wanted to be taken seriously needed to step out of being a part of OWS and start a group that doesn't encourage victimized women to suffer in silence.
I've had friends say the same thing in regards to the Catholic Church, but about molested children instead of raped women.
I try telling 'em not to impugn the intentions of the entire group due to the actions of a small few, even if it was the leadership, but maybe I'm wrong to do so...eh?
The lefty puke who substituted Tea Party for OWS KNOWS that the Tea Partiers are totally law abiding, peaceful and even clean up their mess after an event. Doesn't matter. Advancing THE CAUSE demands that its soldiers spew The Noble Lie.
They are offering spending reduction to revenue increase ratios of at least 2 to 1 or more.
Where in the hell did that come from?
"I've had friends say the same thing in regards to the Catholic Church, but about molested children instead of raped women."
-- And the Catholic Church worked to fix those problems. If OWS started trying to fix its problems, then they'd get the same benefit of the doubt. They don't.
Chip, intelligent of you to bring up marginal utility of income. Yes, that's where the disagreement lays. Perhaps both opinions are true to some degree, depending on the time, circumstances, etc. It's probably not as simple as one way or the other all the time
And re: April's comments, if a distinction can't be made between long-term deficit (and yes, possibly even debt) reduction and short-term spending, then what's the point of even debating any budget issue in an economy with low growth?
I think we should go over the cliff. Will the House Republicans be blamed? but of course! They will be blamed no matter what they do. So, do it.
The Clinton era tax hikes plus the ObamaCare tax hikes will kill off most economic growth. I don't desire that, but I think the voters should get what they want.
What Purple Penguin said @ 11:54.
Nothing brings out the lefty trolls like criticism of their beloved failure of an occupy movement.
Ritmo continues to go with the volume over substance method of spamming the thread, well done jizzrag.
At least Allie/Inga has changed her profile picture to spare us that wrinkly skin and crazy bug eyes.
Progress, Forward!
What's a jizzrag?
God, more babbling by the racist moron, Ritmo.
Kid, it's obvious you've never done anything, nor have you ever been anywhere except your lilly white enclave.
Isn't is about time to trot out your army of blacks who agree with you? Maher does that one too, doesn't he?
You redefined "stupid" every time you post here, Ritmo.
Why don't you learn how to do something? Anything? I mean besides babbling about things you know nothing about.
Godwin's Law should have been called about 50 comments ago when the racist moron Ritmo began to trot out his Republicans are Nazis crap.
Jesus, this kid is dumb!
And in swoops the mouth foaming criminally insane commenter again. So did you escape again?
Any thing of substance to add? Or just stalking again?
garage mahal said...
Not all of OWS was like this; the problem was that they didn't police their own.
And not all Tea Partiers are guilty of rape, like Michael Kobulincky, either.
He is facing a myriad of felony charges, including kidnapping, sexual assault and sex with a foreign object.
Apparently, reading the Constitution does different things to different people.
Nice try by the dishonest or ignorant. All the charges were dropped against Kolbulinsky, the forensics disproved his guilt and worse, the victim had told the police they had the wrong man from the beginning.
No not you ST, President Jay Jeans.
Inga, the witch, stirred to ranting again.
China is going to get their money, and you are going to eat chicken (maybe rice and beans in a few years, then brown bread and drippings), but don't worry you can afford to pay higher taxes
China is currently helping massively to keep our federal tax payments at 70% of federal spending. They do that in the expectation of "getting their money". It's what's allowed everyone in DC to keep kicking the fiscal can down the road. Which is to say--since they keep being rewarded for this politically--the Chinese have allowed US voters to keep believing in Santa Claus.
the CPI really measures actual inflation (wink wink).
Better than it used to, for sure.
Let's all give Shouting Thomas a nice, warm round of applause for all the deep, astute, and pertinent insights he has brought to the thread topic of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
I visited the OWS encampment at Wall Street and talked to the protestors several times, Racist Ritmo.
I tend to do things, unlike you.
Do you have any experience in life? Anything?
ST, seriously are you as nuts as President Jay Jeans? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
You got anything today, Inga?
Or is it just the normal shit?
How long before you go into the persecuted martyr thing?
Posting one comment on a thread: "criminally insane."
Perhaps you should ask your pretend daughter who you pretend has a law degree about what is and is not criminal.
The authoritarian streak in you isn't too far from the surface old sow, someone doesn't agree with your leftwing politics and they are criminally insane. Perhaps people like that should be committed to asylums, or why not just the forced work camps of the Gulag?
People like you are disgusting, and the ideas that you put forward lead to unimaginable human suffering and misery every single time people in power try and enact them.
Most schools don't go too deeply into that part of our history, and thus the Boston Tea Party ends up being painted as just another protest.
The Boston Tea Party wasn't even a protest over high taxes. The Tea Act actually lowered taxes. It was a protest against a private company using its powerful lobby to crush the trade of British & Dutch tea. Sounds more like OWS than the Tea Party of today.
Thread over. It was interesting for a while, oh well.
They are offering spending reduction to revenue increase ratios of at least 2 to 1 or more.
Where in the hell did that come from?
I visited the OWS encampment at Wall Street and talked to the protestors several times, Racist Ritmo.
Oh boy!
I assume this means we're all in for a nice treat to the crack reporting team of ace-journalist, The Guy Who Does Things in Life.
The impersonal and astute insights on the intended thread topic will flow... at... any... moment... now!
Obama said it while interviewed with David Gregory this morning, Allen.
If OWS started trying to fix its problems, then they'd get the same benefit of the doubt. They don't.
If the OWS hasn't even started on stopping rapes, while the Catholic Church done so, then shouldn't the number of OWS-rapes be greater than Church-molestings? An
Also, the OWS protests had thousands of people spread all over the nation in many different cities If what ya'll are saying is true (that the movement, as a whole, has no qualms about raping and murdering as a form of protest) then we should have heard about hundreds of those illegal acts being committed.
Maybe the liberal media is covering 'em all up, eh?
When trickled on, the thing to do is build a bucket, and then another. Some people just lay on their backs with their mouths open, but you can end up stuck like that, and looking for other peoples' buckets to steal.
The kids (and they were almost entirely kids) at the OWS encampment on Wall Street were what I would call "professional protestors."
They're the kind of people who will flit from one angry movement to another their entire lives. Many of them will end up as street people in places like Woodstock and Berkeley. They're looking for an adrenalin high and hoping for a confrontation with the police. The police at the Wall Street encampment did everything they could to avoid the hoped for confrontation.
My only contact with the Tea Party has been through FB friends. They're all suburban people who hold meetings in their kitchens. Their language tends to be restrained and polite.
"If the OWS hasn't even started on stopping rapes, while the Catholic Church done so, then shouldn't the number of OWS-rapes be greater than Church-molestings?"
-- ... Your logic is faulty. Come back later.
I visited the OWS encampment at Wall Street and talked to the protestors several times
Were you raped by any of them? From what I've been recently told, that is what the movement is really all about....
I'll try not to hold your total lack of experience against you, Racist Ritmo.
My age, experience and frequency of travel are unfair advantages in comparison to a dumb kid like you.
But, what can I say? I earned it.
You've just been sitting on your ass all your life doing nothing. It really shows.
They're the kind of people who will flit from one angry movement to another their entire lives.
You should inform them that one doesn't need a "movement" to be angry for one's entire life.
Why do you live in Woodstock if you think so little of the people there? Don't you find such misanthropic attractions a bit strange?
Stranahan, I believe, has interviews discussing the problem with rapes at the camps he visited. Then again, he works for the Breitbart site, so I'm pretty sure he'll be ignored.
I'm sure it was quite interesting when it was just you and ritmo once again taking advantage of Althouse's level of traffic to make yourself feel important.
Dissent is only patriotic when their is a Republican in the white house eh comrade?
OWS was a complete failure on both a practical and intellectual level, comprised of aging hippies, the mentally ill and homeless, and suburban revolutionarys typing away on their Iphones and tables. AKA, the democratic base.
Lilly white little pussies like Ritmo couldn't even bring themselves to that level of action (wouldn't want to get his hands dirty with all the defecation and stabbings going on), but he fights the good fight by spamming the althouse blog. Both are pathetic and ultimately pointless, as math and reality will intrude on their deluded worldview regardless.
Thread's over.
My age, experience and frequency of travel are unfair advantages in comparison to a dumb kid like you.
You must hate yourself awfully fierce to have to feel better about yourself this way.
I'm just a poor, inexperienced bumpkin! Ain't never seen nothin' in life!
I yearn for the, er, "experience" that dirty ole' man Shouting Thomas wants to give me!
Oh, and please be gentle!
Why do you live in Woodstock if you think so little of the people there?
You're of the opinion that home ownership in a particular locale should be decided by an ideological test?
If you weren't such a moron, Racist Ritmo, you'd know that Woodstock has quite a variety of people living in it. My description of one group of people living there is not a full description of every person here.
This might have occurred to a smarter person.
Oh, I'm sure that Woodstock is a suburban Tea Party sympathizer's dream.
That's why you interact with them on Facebook - the venue of choice for face-to-face interactions.
That's why you interact with them on Facebook - the venue of choice for face-to-face interactions.
I interact with the Tea Party on FB because I want to hear what they have to say. I'm not politically involved with any faction.
I have friends of every imaginable political bent on FB, from the farthest left of shrieking Woodstock commies to the farthest right of Obamaphobes. I read what they have to say.
Your question about why I have a home in Woodstock is about as abjectly stupid as possible. I'm a musician. Woodstock is a music biz town.
The government -- and the mainstream media, for that matter -- did, and does, treat the tea party movement like a criminal threat.
What is not to love about the chained CPI? While paying ever higher taxes, we can trade in our chicken for "catfood" (as Dennis Kucinich said recently), trade in our houses for trailers or 200 sq ft urban dwellings, give the oldest and youngest among us pain pills instead of treatments, and don't worry about saving for your children's college education, they can take out massive loans and be debt slaves for life. Oh wait, I think we are already on this path. Forward!
These threads are interesting mostly because they show the sheer pleasure so many take in giving (and getting) attacked by personal invective. It's often the only point, it seems, of the back-and-forth commentary. It becomes tiresome when the players forget that laughing with works better than laughing at.
Ok, well I'm stupid but I actually do want to take leave, get outside and take care of some things today.
Is that ok with you, Mr. Thomas?
These threads are interesting mostly because they show the sheer pleasure so many take in giving (and getting) attacked by personal invective. It's often the only point, it seems, of the back-and-forth commentary. It becomes tiresome when the players forget that laughing with works better than laughing at.
Sadly, I must report some Woodstock news today.
Rocky Rosario, one of the great and storied street characters of all time in Woodstock died a couple of days ago. I just learned about this at Mass this morning.
Rocky helped me move on one occasion and help me with heavy household chores on many others. I always stopped to talk with him when I saw him in town.
He had plenty of problems, for sure. You name it. But, he had a good heart and he played the clown for all that it was truth, because he knew that it charmed and entertained people.
RIP, Rocky.
The Democrats and the Republicans know that the only way to pay back China is to tax the middle class (it is more fun to use a hall of mirrors and fancy formulas than outright telling people the truth). China wants their money and you and your children and your grandchildren and your great grandchildren are going to pay for it one way or the other. We are already here. Welcome to serfdom.
All while our standard of living steadily declines. It's going to be a blast. But hey, our carbon footprints will be drastically reduced.
Reality check: In total, China owns about 8 percent of publicly held U.S. debt.
Here's a great picture of Rocky.
You appeal to economics and don't understand the difference between disposable income and non-disposable income?"
Do YOU?
Disposable income is all the money you have less taxes you have to pay. Money you can spend on things you need or want. NON disposable income is the taxes that you have to pay....Money you can't spend because it is being taken from you.
Or do you mean Discretionary Income? That is yet again another thing.
Whatever you want to call it Chip - some of them have more than enough of it to spend with and some have virtually none.
No. Words mean things and the definitions count. Disposable income is not the same as Discretionary income. Any loan officer will inform you of this.
If you want to argue economics or physics or anything else, you need to use the proper terms or else it is nonsense and there is no point in even engaging you. But I repeat myself.
@Garage, regardless of how much of our debt the Chinese own, the fact is that we are in over our heads and the Democrats and Republicans both know that the middle class is where it's at and future generations. It is one great big ponzi scheme. What do the childless urban dwellers care if my children get screwed over?
All while my children will pay for Sandra Fluke's social security someday.
@ Rustling Leaves
I agree with you the middle class will get hosed and be forced to pay for everything. There's bipartisan consensus on that.
Richard Dolan said...
These threads are interesting mostly because they show the sheer pleasure so many take in giving (and getting) attacked by personal invective. It's often the only point, it seems, of the back-and-forth commentary. It becomes tiresome when the players forget that laughing with works better than laughing at.
A very astute comment. However I would differ slightly in that they are instructive and not in any way interesting. Repetitive. Dismal. Depressing.
Just about a year ago a big controversy broke about this. There were massive deletions. Arguments. Flounce offs. Posts with hundreds upon hundreds of comments. A year has passed and what has been the result?
It seems the blog that was going to eliminate clutter has turned into an episode of "Hoarders."
Happy New Year suckers!
purplepenquin said...
The original tea party was a tax protest by a small group of the "Sons of Liberty".
Speaking of history being a lil' off...the original tea party went waaay beyond just a protest. It was, by definition, an act of terrorism. And that wasn't the only violent act committed by the group during those times. Merchants were tar & feathered while their stores were burnt to the ground. Those weren't the acts of rogue individuals either, the group as a whole would organize boycotts and dispense punishment against those who disobeyed. There was just cause for the Crown to call 'em "Sons of Violence"
I was referring to the Tea party that dumped British tea into Boston harbor. If you want to bring up tarring and feathering of local British officials charged with implementing the new taxes then alright. The"mechanics and apprentices" and the usual bystanders, ie the mob were, for the most part, not involved with the "Sons of Liberty" and their actions usually were decried because it would be a small adjustment to turn the mob the other way.
No surprise this is a surprise to ya. Most schools don't go too deeply into that part of our history, and thus the Boston Tea Party ends up being painted as just another protest.
Your school perhaps
The OWS movement had no qualms about destroying public or private property. Or theft, rape, or murder for that matter.
Just to clarify...you're saying that not only did the movement-as-a-whole engage in those crimes, but nobody in the group qualmed about any of it?
I didn't see anybody condemning them. Their ranks certainly didn't get any smaller because of it.
Ain't trying to change your mind or look for a fight...just wanna be clear on what your opinion is.
My opinion is what it has always been.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
I'm just a poor, inexperienced bumpkin! Ain't never seen nothin' in life!
No shit.
Of course you think New York City is "seeing something"
So there is that.
purplepenquin said...
I visited the OWS encampment at Wall Street and talked to the protestors several times
Were you raped by any of them? From what I've been recently told, that is what the movement is really all about....
Really?
Who told you that?
McTriumph said...
Nice try by the dishonest or ignorant. All the charges were dropped against Kolbulinsky, the forensics disproved his guilt and worse, the victim had told the police they had the wrong man from the beginning.
Garage has not the slightest interest in facts.
His links are often self refuting but he's too stupid to realize that.
garage mahal said...
Reality check: In total, China owns about 8 percent of publicly held U.S. debt.
Stupidity check.
China owns $1.15 trillion of U.S. government debt -- more than any other country -- China holds 10% of U.S. Treasuries,
You see I find the controversy of the moment unimportant. It is the interaction of the commentors that is interesting. Or not.
"But then again"
No. "But then" works just fine and isn't as stupid as "but then again" so drop the damn again.
Which demonstrates that Metafilter is just as much a waste of time as Reddit, if you want thoughtful people of diverse opinion.
*when it comes to politics, at least
Anyone who disagrees with latent racist, open hatred of gays and nutter belief in the sky-man savior is a troll.
Good one.
Everyone who comments on a blog is a troll. The trolls who comment more that 10-times per day are certifiable mental defectives.
OWS devolved into a Marxist circle-jerk. However, why does the FBI need to be so interested? That is the type of big government that makes me ill.
Since OWS doesn't fit into the teabagger Thomas Kinkade view of This American Life, easily frightened low-testosterone Althouse denizens cheer the full force of jack-booted thugs at the command of our Wall Street money-changer masters.
Very "Christian" of y'all
Whinging Thomas adds bottom barrel Star-F_cker to his list of infinite weak-sister traits.
Rock On!
Inga said...
"Still waiting for the trickle down wealth.... Still..... Waiting....."
And after 4 more years of Obamam you'll still be waiting, and still blaming it on Bush. You really *are* dumber than a box of rocks, aren't you?
O Ritmo Segundo said...
"Ok, well I'm stupid"
Finally, a ray of reality and hope.
Just about a year ago a big controversy broke about this. There were massive deletions. Arguments. Flounce offs. Posts with hundreds upon hundreds of comments. A year has passed and what has been the result?
It seems the blog that was going to eliminate clutter has turned into an episode of "Hoarders."
I started reading Althouse in February or March of this year, must have been after the aforementioned flap, because at the time I was impressed by the quality of the commentariat, and honestly, as much as I like and respect Althouse's work, the commenters as a group is what has kept me nearly a daily visitor since that time. But that quality has steadily deteriorated as Althouse has allowed her comment sections to be taken over by a handful of loudmouths who contribute nothing of interest to the group as a whole when they carry on their endless insult-trading nonsense. Meadhouse, if you're reading this, you really ought to think hard about whether continuing to indulge Ritmo, Shouting Thomas, Jake Diamond, Inga and Shiloh is worth losing readers who are tired of being forced to wade through increasing numbers of cowpies to get to the grass.
Anarchy is the functional servant of totalitarian interests. It causes disruptions to civilized society, which then demands progressive levels of mitigation and containment.
The Occupy movement, with its selective concern for private interests, was a prop of left-wing interests. The administration's response was motivated by two reasons: Occupy was itself becoming anarchical (and unwieldy) and it no longer offered a tactical value to the administration.
That said, there were legitimate concerns voiced by Occupy; but, they failed to distinguish between cause and effect, and they implicitly absolved individuals with authority from responsibility. They did not believe in due process and they were rejected by the majority of Americans.
China owns $1.15 trillion of U.S. government debt
So what?
Howard, OWS was always a Marxist circle jerk from it's inception. All one has to do is research the initial funding, who organized and spoke at the original meetings in NYC months prior to the actual protest.
China owns $1.15 trillion of U.S. government debt
Garage says: So what?
Well, when the debt comes due and instead of re-upping the loan they ask for all of their money back....you'll know WHAT then.
You'll also know WHAT if the Chinese do decide to re-up the debt but have decided that our 1.5% interest rate isn't going to get it anymore. They might not bite on re-doing the debt unless they get 5%....7%....10%.
We have mortgaged ourselves and are now completely at the mercy of the Chinese and others who do not mean us well and who own major chunks of our debt.
As we used to say in high school....smooth move ex-lax.
Gary Rosen:
Cedarford called. He wants his argumentative acumen back.
Words matter, Bunny?
Is that why you no longer discuss the geophysics of climate with such phrases as "hot, molten fiery earth"?
DBQ- They own us. We are serfs. We are already screwed no matter what the dingbat politicians do. They already fucked us all over. China wants Americans unarmed, it will happen. China wants the middle class to pay higher taxes, it will happen. Future Americans will not have the standard of living that past generations had. It is already well underway. It is not just Obama's fault, but he is not off the hook either.
Is that why you no longer discuss the geophysics of climate with such phrases as "hot, molten fiery earth"?
What?
"Meadhouse, if you're reading this, you really ought to think hard about whether continuing to indulge [list redacted] is worth losing readers"
From what I hear, it's pretty hard to restrict commenters on Blogger. Note the post-hoc manual deletion fests that happen (sometimes) when a certain Commenter Who Must Not Be Acknowledged shows up.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
April - if you don't mind me asking, what's your income?
Why are you defending tax breaks and shelters for people who generally don't want them and understand that their "need" for them is much less?
Why do Republikinder keep worshipping constituencies that, by and large, don't agree with their agenda?
Maybe you should try to think like a rich person before telling me and the country what their interest and the national interest in them should be?
Or just go watch a reality TV show and pretend you're the Tevye of Tennessee. Just waiting to become a rich woman. Yubby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dum.
Wow. You really are brain damaged.
Meadhouse, if you're reading this, you really ought to think hard about whether continuing to indulge Ritmo, Shouting Thomas, Jake Diamond, Inga and Shiloh is worth losing readers who are tired of being forced to wade through increasing numbers of cowpies to get to the grass.
I'll second Erika's above.
I don't mind debate with people I disagree with. I do mind people who deal primarily in snark, insults and emotional jibber-jabber.
McTriumph:
The funds came from middle class lefties, Ben and Ferries Ice Cream and the former manager of Nirvana. The anti-consumerist pseudo-anarchist Canadians instigated the protests. These are boogiemen that require the FBI to make us feeeeeeeel safe?
Please tell me you are not a conformist consumer tool. Or is your avatar phony and you really ride ricerockets on the weekend with your hipster friends?
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