One comment from a community college student who was pranked, along with the rest of his Speech 101 class by classmate Jose Barrientos, who faked a Mexican accent for 4 months, and then, comically, dropped the accent:
One girl knew he was a fake. You see her at about 3:00. I think it's not a mere coincidence that the young woman is strikingly beautiful. Well-tuned bullshit detector.
If my older readers don't get the "Napoleon Dynamite" reference, you could get the highly amusing movie at Amazon, which, as you may know, I'm hoping you will enter through the Althouse portal when you do any shopping you might need to do. But if you don't want to get up to speed on Pedro from "Napoleon Dynamite," I'll bet you remember Bill Dana doing the Mexican accent as Jose Jimenez. Here's Bill Dana as Jose Jimenez playing an expert in how Santa Claus is supposed to speak:
Dana retired the Jimenez character in 1970. It was considered in bad taste to get laughs playing a dumb ethnic stereotype with an accent. But it's not the 70s anymore, and maybe it's okay for Barrientos — who is a standup comedian — to do this routine, since his agenda is to expose the prejudices of the audience and to critique them and dispel stereotypes. I don't know. It seems to me that there was some real hostility in doing the accent for 4 months on the theory that people would think ill of him. He could have been building relationships. Going public now, he's leveraging his comedy career on deceit and betrayal, which only seems worthwhile if they really were small-minded bigots. In that regard, note that the 2 most fooled students were a couple of black guys — highlighted at the very end, for maximum comic effect.
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११० टिप्पण्या:
It's Pedro.
People should vote for him
Kid's an amateur compared to Liz Warren. She faked being an Injun to scam her way into a quota job at Harvard.
The only sensible thing to do is to fake membership in a protected class and reap the quota benefits.
I think I'll go black.
My black name will be Daqoun D'Afrika!
Well that woman is beautiful. For sure. Quite a diverse group in that class. Let's send them all to Harvard.
"It's Pedro."
You're right. The guy says "Pedro" then miscorrects himself to "Pablo." That fooled me.
I remember Bill Dana's Jose Jimenez character from my childhood, but seeing a bit of it here, now, so many years later, as an adult...it's shocking how condescending and insulting it was.
But then, hispanics were not the only (or most prominent) ethnic group to be so besmirched during that era.
I wonder if he got a nice affirmative action grade boost.
So the whole point of his fake accent was....?
And what was the 'prank'?
That people believed an accent that seemed culturally congruent?
He said, "We have to learn to communicate effectively , people, because if we don't, we will all be lost intranslation"
HILARIOUS!
And soooo profound!
Man, I used to think that generally I could trust people, and that there are few liars.
I mean who would fake an accent, except as part of a deceit, thus demonstrating a nefarious or mendacious nature, or just an asshole? What's the point?
And what else is he lying about?
More and more these days I assume most people are lying, and let the truth be verified.
Thanks, Jose Barrientos, for reaffirming my new lack of faith in mankind.
I remember Bill Dana's Jose Jimenez character from my childhood, but seeing a bit of it here, now, so many years later, as an adult...it's shocking how condescending and insulting it was.
But then, hispanics were not the only (or most prominent) ethnic group to be so besmirched during that era.
Jesus Christ, Cookie, you are a daily enema.
You must be happy now that the villain is white hetero men.
How in God's name did you get so fucked up?
The good part of this is that job interviews in the future will probably be conducted through an avatar that conceals the applicant's identity.
The work will be done at home.
Nobody will have a clue who's behind the computer.
So who videod the class when he was talking? Not him, you can see the back of his head. I think the class was part of and in on the schtick.
Interviewer to Jose Jimenez, astronaut: Is that a crash helmet?
Jose: I hope not.
"Jesus Christ, Cookie, you are a daily enema."
From all indications, you need one, Tom.
"..his agenda is to expose the prejudices of the audience and to critique them and dispel stereotypes."
So... a lot of Hispanics really don't have accents? That's just a stereotype?
"So who videod the class when he was talking?"
It's a speech class, right? My guess is someone recorded every one's speeches so they could be reviewed and critiqued.
The actor who played Pedro in Napoleon Dynamite is in the idiosyncratic HBO series, Eastbound and Down.
Death to PC!!
Cookie, are there any other facets to your personality besides the disgusting nag?
It goes to show that just because you go to a community college, it doesn't mean you are dumb or less intelligent than someone who goes to Harvard. If you had done this at Harvard, however, it's likely they would have figured out some way to expell you for academic dishonesty.
"Black Like Me" with a twist. Pretty good!
"expose the prejudices of the audience"
No prejudice was exposed. They simply believed an hispanic man with an hispanic name and spoke with a seemingly hispanic accent was not lying.
"and to critique them"
He offered no critique, other than fooled ya!.
"and dispel stereotypes"
None were dispelled, except that you can trust people not to lie to you from the get-go.
No Cookie, I said the class, not the speaker. Watch the video.
Before I believe that Señor Barrientos has any talent for standup, I'm going to need to hear a few jokes about the guys hanging out at the Dunkin' Donuts waiting for the pickup trucks.
When we first arrived in Mass and we went to public school... the fear of being shunned, shunned me from speaking for the first few years... I only spoke when forced to. Even though ESL helped me ease in slowly.
The fear of being corrected still hunts me.
I know this guy Jose, who has a thick Spanish accent, and he doesn't seem to mind at all... it used to bother me... but now I see that if it bothers me, I'm the one with the problem.
Pogo said: I mean who would fake an accent, except as part of a deceit, thus demonstrating a nefarious or mendacious nature, or just an asshole? What's the point?
And what else is he lying about?
More and more these days I assume most people are lying, and let the truth be verified.
In this video, we have not only fake accents (meant to deceive?) and spurious "facts", but time travel!
Selma Alabama: March 7, 1965.
Barack Obama birthdate: August 4, 1961
How do we know he was faking the Mexican accent? Maybe that is how he really talks. At the end, he switched to a really good fake American accent.
Ever see Hugh Laurie on House, then hear him give an interview in his normal voice?
Actually, Jose Jimenez just mimiced the standard speech pattern of Mexican immigrants for fun.
The same way Myron Cohen did with Jewish immigrants.
How dare we have fun.
PS Shout's right; Cook, you really need a life.
All Señor Barriento proved was that Mexicans are liars and that white and black students are trusting fools.
Robert Cook said...
But then, hispanics were not the only (or most prominent) ethnic group to be so besmirched during that era.
Shouting Thomas said...
You must be happy now that the villain is white hetero men.
I have to agree with RC. Where I grew up, the Poles got it the worst, followed by Jews, Italians and Irish. Hispanics never got a mention. Blacks only rarely, because there weren't any around, and the whole point was to insult your friends to their face.
I believe... I could be wrong... that the purpose of the 'fakery' was meant to get the class to experience the difference between what they might believe is bad speaking and good speaking?
That an accent, is not necessarily a determinant between the two?
From a bathroom stall:
Communication is what I say and what you hear... seldom are they the same thing.
BTW.. I'm not expressing an opinion on the use of 'fakery' as a teaching tool.
Just saying.
Anyone ever heard of Jerry Rivers aka Geraldo Rivera?
"Cookie, are there any other facets to your personality besides the disgusting nag?"
Certainly...I am large, I contain multitudes...and blah de blah.
"Napoleon Dynamite" is a must see. Funniest movie I've seen in years.
I laughed my ass off at Bill Dana when I was a kid. My dad loved The Jack Benny Show and Bill Dana was on it regularly.
What's her name?
Sue
Sue?
Si.
Si?
Si, Sue.
Si, Sue?
Si.
get this guy on Mind of Holness
"No Cookie, I said the class, not the speaker. Watch the video."
Well, again, perhaps this is part of how they document their presentations...to gauge the class reactions.
Or perhaps this was merely a reenactment of the actual event.
(Or perhaps the whole thing is a prank by the class on the media.)
Certainly...I am large, I contain multitudes...and blah de blah.
Perhaps you would do us the favor of actually displaying another of those out of the multitude.
Give the sanctimonious, brilliantly incisive, revolutionary scold bit a rest for a while.
It's easy. Try it.
I displayed it in my answer...the blithe spirit!
Poor Geraldo will never live down his trashy talk show or the Capone's vault. Like John Kerry "served in Nam", Geraldo is an experience "war corespondent", remind me again. I bet you twenty he also has lifts in his shoes.
"Where I grew up, the Poles got it the worst"
Then they defeated the Soviet Union. Nobody makes Polish jokes any more.
"Like John Kerry 'served in Nam'",
Well...for however brief a time, Kerry did serve in Viet Nam, so I fail to see the point of your snarky quote marks. Whatever one may say about Kerry, good or bad, he did go into a war theater with no assurance he would come out of it whole or alive...which is far more than one can say for repugnant war pigs like Dick "I Had Other Priorities" Cheney or George "I Joined the Texas Air National Guard to Avoid Viet Nam" Bush.
Countless people in radio/tv ads and shows "defame" New Yorkers and Bostonians (for example) by butchering their accents. Do the defamed now get apoligies or restitution?
Countless people in radio/tv ads and shows "defame" New Yorkers and Bostonians (for example) by butchering their accents. Do the defamed now get apoligies or restitution?
Benedict Arnold served too Cookie. and he never called anyone a "John Kerry CEO".
Napoleon Dynamite is brilliant. Gosh!
Strikingly beautiful? I would have said attractive.
Shouting Thomas: "The only sensible thing to do is to fake membership in a protected class and reap the quota benefits. I think I'll go black."
That's been done too. C. Thomas Howell in "Soul Man" Faked being black for a scholarship to Harvard, ironically enough...
"...he never called anyone a 'John Kerry CEO.'"
I don't get your reference.
I also am unclear of his point. Perhaps he expected to be treated with prejudice because of his heavy accent, and then to embarrass the haters when he revealed his true speaking voice.
And. Blow. Their. Minds.
Maybe I'm just too old to get this. It's sophomoric in every sense.
Don't be so easy to take offense. Let the Stalinists politicize everything. I'm not going to play ball with them.
@DADvocate, according to the title on the Jack Benny video linked from the Bill Dana vid, the "Si, Sue" guy was Mel Blanc.
Interestingly, @1:28 in that vid he does exactly the same gag as Barrientos, only w/o the self-importance.
The purpose of this was not a "prank", in the sense of a joke...it is an aggressive flip of the middle finger to these people, very much in the style of Sasha Baron Cohen ("Bhorat"), a rebuke for some prejudice that the actor feels they harbor towards him, and (more importantly) a good launch to his career.
The purpose of this was not a "prank", in the sense of a joke...it is an aggressive flip of the middle finger to these people, very much in the style of Sasha Baron Cohen ("Bhorat"), a rebuke for some prejudice that the actor feels they harbor towards him, and (more importantly) a good launch to his career.
OK, the "Jose Jimenez" bit wasn't as cringeworthy as Bing Crosby in blackface, but .... really?
I think the guy interviewing him went on to become president of The Phone Company.
Re: Pogo:
I mean who would fake an accent, except as part of a deceit, thus demonstrating a nefarious or mendacious nature, or just an asshole? What's the point?
When re-entering the country, I am regularly asked questions about whether I am really an American (because I sound like I am from England, to a person who has never been to England). Occasionally, I have avoided such questioning by putting on a heavy, fake Southern accent. That's kind of deceit, except I really was born in the South -- it says so right on my passport.
When I was small, my sisters and I entertained ourselves with different accents. In a speech class, I can understand the temptation to use a non-native accent. It forces listeners to listen more closely to what you say, and can make stupid statements sound marginally more profound as a result. Additionally, if you also use the rhythms of the other language, that can make the speech sound more lively and entertaining than a speech delivered in the synthetic Standard-American drone of a news announcer. Not what the speaker here was doing, but I can see the appeal.
Actually, continuing that point -- that's obviously something Obama does. He adopts a fake African-American vernacular accent from time to time in his speeches because it adds a bit more liveliness to his speaking style. And the fact that AAVE is generally non-rhotic (like other Southern accents) helps the vowels open up, which I think gives a more sonorous, rounded feel to the delivery.
Re: Shouting Thomas:
The good part of this is that job interviews in the future will probably be conducted through an avatar that conceals the applicant's identity.
Goodness but you're optimistic. How are employers going to judge us by the colour of our skin if they can't see it? It's not like disparate impact is on its way out.
@Balfegor,
I don't mean childhood jokes or your situational drawl, but someone who would go four months with a faked accent.
His teacher should have fisked his 'lesson' good, and dressed him down in front of the class.
He made them feel as if they'd done something wrong, but never specified what that might be, except for trusting a fellow classmate not to pretend to be someone they're not.
Hell, it's no better than claiming to have served in the military or to have cancer. He sought attention by means of a lie, and wants people to be ashamed of believing him.
which is far more than one can say for repugnant war pigs like Dick "I Had Other Priorities" Cheney or George "I Joined the Texas Air National Guard to Avoid Viet Nam" Bush.
First, I doubt Cheney could have passed a physical to get in the military and probably didn't. Knowing Cheney his statement probably meant, "It's none of your fucking business".
Secondly, Kerry didn't join the regular Navy, he joined the reserves, was unlucky and got called up. By besmirching Bush in the Air Guard you besmirch the Air Guard. Evidently you don't know what interceptor pilots in the Air Guard do.
My point was that real military heroes don't advertise. They are not like Ivy grads who tell you where they went to school within three minutes of meeting you. Maybe that's where Kerry got the habit.
If I were in the class, I would have laughed. It is funny. But not that funny. For 4 months he fakes an accent...that's pathological.
I would never trust him on anything again.
Sorry, but I couldn't find a way to mention "Christmas in Cambodia " in that post. Or marrying up, shitting on her, then marrying up.
If I had caught this post by Pogo, I might not have bothered posting myself as I couldn't have said it better.
He sought attention by means of a lie, and wants people to be ashamed of believing him.
This Speech Class reminds me of the one in "Clueless" except the one in "Clueless" was in high school and had somewhat advanced topics whereas this is clearly a college level course with old people in it and they are giving speeches about their favorite thing and their favorite person, like it's first grade show and tell or something. And they're probably going into debt that they will never pay off to do it.
The President's Analyst: a great movie.
That guy playing the president of the Phone Company is Pat Harrington, Jr., who I first saw on MAKE ROOM FOR DADDY (The Danny Thomas Show) and who later became more well known playing Dwayne Schneider (the super?) on ONE DAY AT A TIME.
Deceit and betrayal are okay, according to Althouse, when practiced against bigots. Sounds like classic Alinsky.
We used to enjoy our diversity, laugh at it, play with it, celebrate it, but most of the time ignore it. Now it's just a weapon, a knife you slip slowly into the back while smiling face to face.
RC, I share your view of that movie. Common ground!
Do you share my view that the whole phone-implant thing seems pretty cool rather than scary?
The ending is great, of course, but my favorite scene is at the NJ family's house.
John, he recorded the class himself. He had a small camera hidden/mounted on the board he had sitting on the chalkboard. There's a quick shot at about the 1:45 mark when the camera moves as he picks the board up.
John, he recorded the class himself. He had a small camera hidden/mounted on the board he had sitting on the chalkboard. There's a quick shot at about the 1:45 mark when the camera moves as he picks the board up.
I'm glad we live in a more enlightened age, when it's only proper to think badly of white people with Southern or rural accents.
Also, I was reminded of a college physics class, in which the TA gave an opening ten-minute spiel in a very passable Russian accent.
"If you cheat, we may catch... no, we WILL catch."
As far as I know, no Russians were offended.
I suspect he thought he was going to experience discrimination due to his accent, and planned his finale accordingly. But apparently everyone accepted he was who he pretended to be, which is why his last statement seems so misplaced. He says he became "pretty good friends" with one of his classmates but made him out to be a fool. I do not think the word "friend" means what he thinks it does.
Let's see, Scary Harry Reid had to apologize for accusing President Homeboy of using a Negro dialect!
"Journalists Mark Halperin and John Heilemann reported the remarks in their new book, "Game Change," which is scheduled to be in bookstores Tuesday.
The authors quote Reid as saying privately that Obama, as a black candidate, could be successful thanks, in part, to his "light-skinned" appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."
And Miss Hillary "... ain't no ways tard!" when it comes to fighting for the civil rights!
"Jose Jalapeno - with a steek!"
McTriumph said...
First, I doubt Cheney could have passed a physical...
You omitted that Cook has no criticism for actual draft dodgers but piles of shit for those with the same intent who were successful through different means. As with all of his criticisms his position is 100% determined by who is acting, the action itself is irrelevant.
Here's a question: why are we subsidizing "speech" classes in community colleges, as well as "reading" and remedial math classes?
Answer: guaranteed student loans and Pell grants. And administrators who need those 100K jobs doing absolutely nothing.
The community college at which I taught had scores of speech and reading classes. 60% of the students were remedial -- in other words, they could not pass very, very simple qualifying exams in very, very basic skills. Still, we gave free money to every one of them.
The school asked the teachers -- including adjuncts -- to come in before the semester started to help students fill out their FAFSA form, which has three bloody questions. We were told this was volunteer work. We were told the forms were too confusing for many students.
So we were asked to volunteer to fill in a form for student too unqualified and too lazy to even bother to ask for free money to sit around in classrooms talking about their favorite pop stars while pretending they were learning something.
Pedro is hardly the biggest liar in the room.
It's as offensive as I Love Lucy. Sorry mom, but I despised, no, make that loathed that show.
I don't know - I had a "Mexican" neighbor a few years ago who had a few words that might give a clue. He was born (of legal immigrants before his birth) in the US of A. But he looked, well...Mexican. And...he doesn't speak Spanish. And he said to me, "I'm not a Mexican, I'm an American. Why should I speak Spanish?"
I think our star of the video may have had similar experiences.
Re: Kathy K:
I don't know - I had a "Mexican" neighbor a few years ago who had a few words that might give a clue. He was born (of legal immigrants before his birth) in the US of A. But he looked, well...Mexican. And...he doesn't speak Spanish. And he said to me, "I'm not a Mexican, I'm an American. Why should I speak Spanish?"
I am not even Mexican, but I look Hispanic enough that people on the street address me in Spanish. Or it might be some other Romance language that is not French, but I'm pretty sure it is always Spanish. This happened to me regularly in LA while I was a college student (meanwhile, my lily-white roommate was always addressed in English). It happens a lot less on the East Coast, which is somewhat less, ah, progressive than California on racial matters, but even on the East Coast, it still happens from time to time.
If I were in the class, I would have laughed. It is funny. But not that funny. For 4 months he fakes an accent...that's pathological.
I would never trust him on anything again.
I don't know ... I kind of dig these sort of cultural experiments. I had a thought once that I would become the biggest Dale Earnhardt Jr. fan out of the blue for a month ... and then stop, but never acknowledge it or address it, just to see how people would react.
I know a young, prominent Mexican-American comedian who cited "Jose Jimenez" as his inspiration for trying standup in the first place. He was utterly unaware that Dana was a Jew. So... I suppose it doesn't really matter that Dana's schtick was (or was perceived by some as) "condescending and insulting." For some, it was rightly perceived as a joke.
"And den dee leetle mouse comes out!"
"And den dee leetle mouse comes out!"
Strange. Nobody seemed concerned about Hillary Clinton's draft-dodging even when she was running for President.
"You omitted that Cook has no criticism for actual draft dodgers but piles of shit for those with the same intent who were successful through different means. As with all of his criticisms his position is 100% determined by who is acting, the action itself is irrelevant."
I have to assume you're being intellectually dishonest as I can't believe you're so dumb.
It's the...what is it, kids?!...yes, that's right, it's the HYPOCRISY!"
I have no issue with people who avoided serving in Viet Nam...it was a horrid, purposeless war--just as our present wars are--and were there a draft now, I would cheer any who refused to be drafted.
However, when you have these swine who avoided the war to save their own skins--because they could--come into office and start wars for political purposes, based on lies, where they send others to kill and be killed, one's gorge does insist on rising more than just a tad.
But you knew that, didn't you?
Robert Cook said...
I have to assume you're being intellectually dishonest as I can't believe you're so dumb.
When those whose who believe Smoot Hawley is the answer to our economic woes call you dumb you know you're on the right track.
It's doubly meaningful when that same person uses third grade mockery to people avoiding Vietnam service and ten minutes later claim they "have no issue with people who avoided serving in VietNam" as if the rest of us suffer from the same delusions you do.
Except that Clinton broke the law by leaving the country when he didn't have a deferrment. Kerry got a dishonorable discharge, and lost his medals. His dishonorable discharge was later upgraded during the Carter Administration. Later as a Senator Kerry had enough pull to get his medals back. That is why Kerry still refuses to reveal his military records.
By contrast, GW Bush made his records available. His TANG unit didn't have funding for enough flight hours for the pilots returning from Viet Nam and the TANG only F-102 pilots, so GW Bush got permission to get out, leaving space and funds for the veteran pilots.
Why do we subsidize community college?
Because America is a land of second chances.
I got kicked out of two colleges. I came from a small town, did well on the SATs and thought that meant I should be able to handle high speed advanced math classes. It didn't. I failed.
I went to a small midwestern college to get a Psych degree. After 4 years in the Army I went to a large western university on GI Bill, and with coaching from my first wife (thanks Suzanne!) managed to get a second BS in Mech Eng. 20 years later, I am glad of my second, third and 4th changes that you just don't get under the Euro-Japan system.
Robert Cook said...
"Like John Kerry 'served in Nam'",
Well...for however brief a time, Kerry did serve in Viet Nam, so I fail to see the point of your snarky quote marks. Whatever one may say about Kerry, good or bad, he did go into a war theater with no assurance he would come out of it whole or alive...which is far more than one can say for repugnant war pigs like Dick "I Had Other Priorities" Cheney or George "I Joined the Texas Air National Guard to Avoid Viet Nam" Bush.
Where did you serve , Bob?
I had three years ROTC until they found a congenital heart defect. What about you?
Althouse wrote, "Going public now, he's leveraging his comedy career on deceit and betrayal, which only seems worthwhile if they really were small-minded bigots."
I'd say that by buying into his faked stereotypical behavior, they proved they were.
Pogo said, "I mean who would fake an accent, except as part of a deceit, thus demonstrating a nefarious or mendacious nature, or just an asshole? What's the point?"
See above.
DADvocate said... My dad loved The Jack Benny Show and Bill Dana was on it regularly.
What's her name?
Sue
Sue?
Si.
Not Bill Dana. Mel Blanc. IIRC that bit was carried over from Benny's radio show. Note Benny nearly cracks up here. http://youtu.be/O9s8U0O0XPE
Bill Dana did have his own TV series, playing Jose as a bellhop. http://youtu.be/h4vDcx2V0PA
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056741/combined
I remember a detail of one episode distinctly. He quoted the Declaration of Independence perfectly on some exam (possibly for naturalization) but he was accused of cheating because nobody could do that. Of course, he proved he had memorized it,
One of my favorite sections in "The President's Analyst" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgKqo3TvZoI#t=45
It was considered in bad taste to get laughs playing a dumb ethnic stereotype with an accent.
Andy Kaufman parlayed that schtick into a career just 5 years after Dana retired his character.
Baseball been berry, berry good to me.
Drop the Chalupa!
I mean, do Mexicans even like David Hasselhof? That's the Germans, right?
He should've used Al Pacino. Hispanics LOVE Scarface!
He was imitating whom he was afraid the other students thought he was. Metamorphosis. It's said that you become who you pretend to be, but sometimes you become who you are afraid you are.
In a parallel universe Russians speak English with a Hispanic accent and Hispanics speak with a Russian accent. When the former is spoofed in the parallel galaxy the racialists don't bat an eye. When the second is spoofed the racialists cry racial stereotype.
Conclusion: It's only racist if the accent you are spoofing is that of a non-white.
Conclusion of conclusion: People like Robert Cooke are blinded by color.
There was a time in my lifetime that whining and victim hood weren't so prized, people had a sense of humor.
I remember Bill Dana as The Astronaut, Jose Jimenez.
DADvocate: The Jack Benny Show, "Si", "Sy", "Sue".....
That was Mel Blanc.
PS: Thanks to Nate Whilk
I am now going to step back 25 years (before PC) and ask: Why would Jose Barrientos have to fake a Mexican accent?
Balfegor: On a related note, a Caucasian student who was born in South Africa, moved here while young and became a citizen, tried to list "African-American" as his ethnicity. He was loudly criticized.
PPS: Another great Voice who retired: Vaughn Meader - the incomparable JFK imitator. He quit right after the assassination. Last I heard, he's living a quiet life in the NorthEast.
Bob?
"Last I heard, he's living a quiet life in the NorthEast."
Last I heard, he died in 2004.
Here's the post I wrote when Vaughn Meader died.
"When those whose who believe Smoot Hawley is the answer to our economic woes call you dumb you know you're on the right track."
Well, Marshall, maybe you are dumb, because in my original comment I specifically called you "intellectually dishonest," as I could NOT believe you were so dumb.
"It's doubly meaningful when that same person uses third grade mockery to people avoiding Vietnam service and ten minutes later claim they "have no issue with people who avoided serving in VietNam" as if the rest of us suffer from the same delusions you do."
Well, now I'm uncertain. Maybe you aren't as dumb as your previous remark (to which I replied) would suggest, and you are, as I asserted originally, intellectually dishonest, as I did state clearly my objections to our stalwart chickenhawks Cheney and Bush. Yet, you insist on claiming my objection is merely to the fact of their avoiding being drafted.
Or...is it possible you're dumb and dishonest?
Cookie:
Dick "I Had Other Priorities" Cheney or George "I Joined the Texas Air National Guard to Avoid Viet Nam" Bush.
Here were your exact words. Presumably you're at least intelligent enough to realize these insults are targeted at their lack of service and not their later actions. Maybe you can explain the lack of Bill Clinton's inclusion with "I was too busy not inhaling".
I realize you have to lash out because your attack on their lack of service was a mistake. You let the mask slip and showed your real motivation so there's really no other option. But it's still sad.
Ehhh... IMHO, a big kerfluffle over nothing. I thought it was funny.
Of course, I love doing different accents, and I love practical jokes (as long as I'm not the victim!), so I would totally do the same thing if I thought I could get away with it. Alas, I look completely northern European, so I would have to do a German accent or something, and that's not nearly as engaging.
Weak, Marshall, weak.
Cheney and Bush started two wars, for no exigent reason of self-defense or for the self-defense of an ally, for purely political purposes, and they had no qualms about sending Americans to kill and be killed--or maimed--for their baseless and criminal political wars. They demonstrated great qualms, however, about sacrificing themselves for that other purely political war, Viet Nam.
(Moreover, I was contrasting Bush and Cheney with Kerry, whose service McTriumph seemed to find snark-worthy, even though it was, as limited as it was, far greater than any service Cheney or Bush have ever given to this country.)
They are directly responsible for every American killed or maimed (both physically and mentally)in our wars over the past 11 years, (joined in this responsibility a few years ago by Obama), not to mention they very many more victims of our bombs and bullets who reside(d) in the lands we have invaded. Every one of those are lives wasted, simply thrown away, to serve their ends.
Would that they had had the same regard for the lives of others as they had for their own.
Robert Cook said...
(Moreover, I was contrasting Bush and Cheney with Kerry, whose service McTriumph seemed to find snark-worthy, even though it was, as limited as it was, far greater than any service Cheney or Bush have ever given to this country.)
Thanks for admitting my point. You attacked Bush and Cheney for something your stated worldview holds as desireable in order to protect Kerry.
Maybe his point was that only one person realised that his choice of items must be a joke. Why didn't they realise? because with his accent they didn't really look at him and realise what a guy like him would or would not like. They didn't see him.
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