Had [Jim Webb] or any one of the 60 Democrats insisted that the Administration get Republican votes, or drop the bill's worst provisions, history would have been very different.History... had you remembered those 3 incidents and the fact that all 3 were required to produce the 60 votes that allowed the Democrats to inflict Obamacare on us?
A second irony is that Democrats only had those 60 Senate votes because of a series of improbable and corrupt events. Mr. Webb won his race by a hair in 2006 after incumbent George Allen stupidly uttered the word "macaca," and the media portrayed him as racist. Alaska's Ted Stevens lost his seat in 2008 by 3,724 votes after he was convicted eight days before the election in a trial in which the Justice Department withheld crucial evidence. He was later exonerated. And Al Franken, who was trailing on Election Day, managed to steal the Minnesota recount in 2008 by 312 votes from a hapless Norm Coleman....
३ ऑक्टोबर, २०१२
"Even hedged regrets are welcome, but the irony is that a Senator who says the parties need to work more together..."
"... will have as his main legacy the most partisan and polarizing legislation of modern times."
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While we're remembering amazing things, let's not forget Mr. Chief Justice Robert's amazing new tax, either.
Inflict.
Good word.
Whatever you think of the media-induced storm that came out of macaca, it's never bad when an incumbent loses.
Yeah we remember
What part of "by any means necessary" don't you understand?
Shit, nobody cares about the 'series of improbable and corrupt events" that landed Democrats in Senate seats they did not earn; not anymore.
It's all in the past, as forgotten as Obama's 2007 racist speeches.
This is why I don't think 'enthusiasm' will have much of an effect on Republican turnout. We all remember the immortal words, "If it's not close, they can't cheat."
...and the fact that all 3 were required to produce the 60 votes that allowed the Democrats...
Well, "all three" plus Tom Delay and Duke Cunningham and war fatigue and the deficit spending and Congressional Republicans turning in to what they had overthrown in '94.
I'm sure I'm leaving out some things.
Yes, we remember. Plus fraudulently passing Obamacare through reconciliation when they lost their 60th Democrat and he was replaced by Scott Brown.
And it may be that if it never passed Obama would have been reelected. But Obamacare also provides a rallying point for all people who are freemarket in orientation. It will give something for Obama to pull on as over half the pulic is against Obamacare, and the other half will be too if he just spells out in the debates that it will mean 3000 years of expensive litigation ahead.
I can't help but wonder how Franken would have fared if there had been some kind of voter ID requirement in place.
But that's racist.
Yet, somehow Republicans and the Tea Party are off the hook for muscling in two of the worst candidate seen in any Senate race in Sharron Angel and Christine "I'm not a Witch" O'Donnell. And Harry Reid was VERY beatable in that election.
Will con whining ever cease? Rhetorical.
Yet, somehow Republicans and the Tea Party are off the hook for muscling in two of the worst candidate seen in any Senate race in Sharron Angel and Christine "I'm not a Witch" O'Donnell. And Harry Reid was VERY beatable in that election.
Let me know how that explains the ObamaCare vote? I'm obviously dense.
The world would indeed be a different place had the Friedersdorf Standard been invented in 2006. As far as I know, George Allen never sponsored any actual anti-macaca legislation.
The Supreme Court is at stake in the election next month.
Compromise with a destroying army like today's Dems under Obama's leadership has become a useless act.
Kirby Olson,
To the contrary, I believe Obamacare is one of the few really significant achievements of this administration. Were it not for having passed this, we would be looking at a failed presidency. As it is, I and many of the people I know will enthusiastically vote for President Obama.
B.McManus
Allen deserved the loss; Coleman does too, for a different reason. Allen knew he was being tracked and said something stupid. Coleman did not have an effective group of poll watchers who were able to challenge ballots effectively, at least, not at first. There was a site showing ballots that let you decide who got the vote. There were cases where two dots were marked, and the ultimate decider gave the vote to Franken when it was Franken + Random Other Guy, but denied it to Coleman when it was Coleman + Random Other Guy.
In both cases, the ballot should not have been counted. Coleman's team just wasn't ready for the onslaught. Bad politics, but you lose, you learn.
We all remember the immortal words, "If it's not close, they can't cheat."
As I said here once before, that statement is no longer true. (If it ever was.)
Let me know how that explains the ObamaCare vote?
Gee... Um... You might have had a majority in the Senate, thus actually having the votes to stop it from passing.
I'm obviously dense.
Apparently.
"As it is, I and many of the people I know will enthusiastically vote for President Obama."
-- I suppose forcing the government to become the debt collectors for the insurance companies is something to celebrate.
I'm still trying to find a real definition for the word "macaca".
sonicfrog said...
Yet, somehow Republicans and the Tea Party are off the hook for muscling in two of the worst candidate seen in any Senate race in Sharron Angel and Christine "I'm not a Witch" O'Donnell. And Harry Reid was VERY beatable in that election
Neither of those races had anything to do with Obamacare which Obama signed on March 24, 2010.
Sonicfrog -- check your history.
Let's not forget that faux Republican, one of the Weird sisters from Maine, who reminded us, "When history calls, history calls".
shiloh said...
Will con whining ever cease? Rhetorical.
Boring.
Can't wait till the Demos lose and we get to hear the little weasel whine non-stop for 4 years.
Can't wait till the Demos lose and we get to hear the little weasel whine non-stop for 4 years.
You have a long wait ahead.
Alinsky's RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
The consequences of Obamacare or an Obama reelection will be annoying, but they won't be catastrophic. People will muddle along with their lives, and the middle class standard of living will be in a slow, progressive decline for a long time.
(If the Second Amendment is intended to be a political safety valve, how bad does it have to get before it kicks in?)
Yet, somehow Republicans and the Tea Party are off the hook for muscling in two of the worst candidate seen in any Senate race...
Let me fix that for you...
Yet, somehow Republicans and the Tea Party managed to re-take the House of Representatives in an historic landslide while eroding the Dems' Senate majority despite losses in a couple of winnable races.
There!
"(If the Second Amendment is intended to be a political safety valve, how bad does it have to get before it kicks in?)"
-- If this is a serious question, it is meant solely as an actual check on physical, political violence when all other means have been exhausted. Not just -losing- at the ballot box, but being denied the chance to even vote. Things would need to be so catastrophically bad that everyone, right, left and center, would agree things had gone too far (what to do -after- we stopped this mythical, non-existent terror would cause some friction, but it would need to be so bad that we were reaching Hitler-levels of unanimous agreement and oppression.)
"...it would need to be so bad that we were reaching Hitler-levels of unanimous agreement and oppression."
Hitler was elected.
And Godwin smiles.
Yes, we remember. Plus fraudulently passing Obamacare through reconciliation when they lost their 60th Democrat and he was replaced by Scott Brown.
Don't forget that after Ted Kennedy died, Dems in Massachusetts changed the law (again) to allow the governor to appoint a successor to his Senate seat. That successor - Paul Kirk - although he promised not to run in the special election months later, was the 60th vote to break the filibuster against Obamacare on December 23, 2009, one month before Scott Brown was elected.
Ironically, the Dems had originally removed the governor's power to appoint successors to vacated Congressional seats in 2004, in order to prevent Governor Mitt Romney from filling John Kerry's seat with a Republican after Kerry's inevitable victory over George Bush.
In other words the media and vote fraud put them over the top.
Gee... Um... You might have had a majority in the Senate, thus actually having the votes to stop it from passing.
So even with a clean path to say oops, you take a shot at me, which was dumb, all things considered, and you look like an idiot, this post considered.
Good job
"The consequences of Obamacare or an Obama reelection will be annoying, but they won't be catastrophic. People will muddle along with their lives, and the middle class standard of living will be in a slow, progressive decline for a long time."
Very true, for most people.
For others, like the very old and high utilizers, it will be catastrophic.
But like in England, you won't hear about it very much, not for about 30 years or so. And they are just a few compared to the masses, so quite easily ignored.
Mogget, you took the words right out of my mouth. Harriet Miers was laughed out of town, so GWB chose supposedly rock-ribbed conservative Roberts. Miers was a highly unconventional choice, and maybe she wasn't qualified, I don't know for sure, but I bet she wouldn't have wilted like Roberts did.
"Hitler was elected.
And Godwin smiles."
-- Right, but the point is that the point where violence was acceptable was not merely because someone that is unliked is elected. It takes actual malice and violence, along with the removal of any legitimate means of changing the government. Which is something that, in any foreseeable future (barring some horrendous sudden onset of dystopia), won't be happening in America.
Mea Culpa... Got my dates screwed up. So Obamacare would not factor in.
That said, I still stand by my position that you screwed up and could have taken the Senate with better candidates.
If Obama had not been elected, there would have been no Obamacare. Blame the people who voted for him.
"That said, I still stand by my position that you screwed up and could have taken the Senate with better candidates."
-- Entirely possible. Not picking up Castle in Delaware was a mistake which will hurt Republicans there for probably a few cycles. Reid wasn't going to lose though, despite all the hype.
You're emphasizing that the President only got his policies passed because of Senators that should never have been elected. That's racist and ugly to point that out.
Wow, that "series of improbable and corrupt events" was pretty convenient for the party in charge, wasn't it?
We might almost think there's some sort of broad systematic push to vilify and remove Republican senators via fraud, deception, and abuse of government authority.
But if there were anything fishy here I'm sure our fiercely independent investigative journalists would have fact-checked us all about it. Nevermind.
Ehh, Webb is one of those guys who prides himself on being "above" party politics. A good team player is actually more valuable than some vain preening prick who fancies himself an independent.
It's kind of sad that Stevens wasn't exonerated until after he died (well, maybe not "exonerated," but at least, all the people who claimed he was being railroaded were proven right.) Unless I have my chronology wrong.
Oh wait, he's a D...never mind...
The macaca event should probably shake Connor Freirsdorf's conviction that the right is becoming anything like the MSM.
Talk about playing something over and over again until it became racist.
Or is the macaca event now too far in the past to discuss? It was what, like six years ago?
"Will con whining ever cease? Rhetorical."
Will liberal entitlement ever cease? Rhetorical.
In the list of 'lucky' events that allowed obamacare to pass, ought to be how the Mass Senate election took 5 months to hold and how they had to change the law
Matthew Sablan said...
Not picking up Castle in Delaware was a mistake which will hurt Republicans there for probably a few cycles. Reid wasn't going to lose though, despite all the hype.
Why do you think this? He was going to vote for Obamacare.
Marshal: Because Castle is well-loved in Delaware and one of the moderate Republicans that could have given Republicans a foothold to make people more comfortable with the Republican brand. Look at Scott Brown: He's not perfect, but he's more reliable than the alternative. That's part of being a national party, sometimes, you get people who aren't perfect fits so you can win on motions and procedural things (like, say, filibusters.)
Scott Brown was elected for stating outright he would not vote for Obamacare, and Castle would have been elected had he done the same thing.
Given his choice if we elected him we'd be in essentially the same position today except the left would be using Castle as cover just as they used to use the Maine Senators.
Entirely possible. We'll never know.
I had forgotten the first two, but will not forget how the breathlessly righteous ones are "Shameless!" when it comes to aggrandizing their personal power. Integrity is policed only for the other guys.
Al Franken in the Senate speaks for itself: this party leadership will put on any kind of show you dumbasses want, perform any caricature, as long as they gain more power.
the Democratic Party leadership and power-structure struck a Devil's bargain and committed to its Low Road back in the nineties -- suitcases of Chinese cash, etc -- and is now the worst possible expression of itself, a corrupt caricature of its noble self-image. It must be routed and remade, for it's own sake and the sake of a free republic.
I can remember when it needed just one more vote to make it out of committee, and hearing the democrats beg "We just want the chance to discuss it"
I believe Obamacare is one of the few really significant achievements of this administration. Were it not for having passed this, we would be looking at a failed presidency. As it is, I and many of the people I know will enthusiastically vote for President Obama.
I hope you remember those words when they send you home with aspirin instead of a new hip.
An approach I'd like to see Romney use tonight:
"Mr. Obama campaigned on the notion that he would lead a post-partisan Washington... that Democrats and Republicans would finally set partisanship aside under his leadership, and work together to come to a common understanding.
I've checked, and I have to congratulate him. I did find an example where both parties set aside their differences based on his input. When he submitted what he called a 'budget' this year, the Democratically-led Senate and the Republican-led House came together in perfect unity: Not a single person from EITHER party voted in favor of it. His 'leadership' resulted in every single vote in Congress being AGAINST what he proposed.
But I'm sure it's a fluke that no one in his own party was willing to vote for his budget. Oh wait... the Democratically-led Senate did the same thing last year, too.
This is Mr. Obama's idea of economic leadership? Proposing budgets that absolutely no one is willing to vote for?"
RJ,
You can bet I will remember you having urged me to remember, should your fantasy occur to me. I believe that for a society as wealthy as ours is not to provide a good level of health care for all is shameful.
B.McManus
The squandered hope and change is gone forever. Even if Obama is reelected, that doesn't win back the House or the 60 votes.
By the way, what Scott Brown said about Obamacare was that it was already a done deal whether he was elected or not.
It's wrong to think there is a mandate for repeal. There is a mandate for cutting out the nonsense and getting on with it.
Don't forget the New Jersey Supreme Court re-writing that state's very clear election laws to allow the Dems to substitute Frank Lautenberg as their senate candidate after the primary voters' preferred and well-established scoundrel, Torricelli, withdrew in disgrace after the deadline for such substitutions. The election turned on the court decision.
I don't live in Minnesota anymore but I think Minnesotans like their clown Senator. Too much cold and ice seems to freeze their brains and produce elected officials like Jesse Ventura and Keith Ellison and Al Franken.
B. McManus
So you think a doctor owes you the sweat of his brow? They have word for that...slavery. So you go back to your government owned home, with your Volt, and sit on your ass while someone else takes care of your bills...
I've got a word for that...fuckwad.
Does sa wittle baby need the big ol' gubmint to hold your hand? Check under your bed for monsters? Wipe your ass?
You love communism so much, move to Cuba or Venezuela.
@Shiloh
Man it was so nice and quiet here after I bitched slapped you the other day, and you hid for like three days. Don't make me have ta' do it again.
@Shiloh,
Seek help, or get a life, or crawl out from that basement where you've been hiding. Whatever it takes.
Cheers!
B.McManus
Carnifex/Unknown
Gallup Obama Job Approval ~ 10/1 - 10/3 ~ 1500 A ~ ((( 54/42 +12 )))
btw carny, I come and go as I please and usually don't notice your posts.
blessings
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