It's a nice achievement for the Obama administration... except that the man — Ali al-Shihri — could have been in detention all these years, instead of contributing to terrorism. Exactly when was he released?
WaPo says:
Shihri was captured in Afghanistan in December 2001 and spent nearly six years as a prisoner at Guantanamo. He was released to the custody of the Saudi government as part of a rehabilitation program for militants. In 2008, however, he decamped for Yemen and helped to revive al-Qaeda’s organization there.
The
Bush administration released him. There's
better detail in the UK Telegraph:
The Saudi was among the last survivors of al-Qaeda's pre-September 11 generation. Shihri trained in a camp in Afghanistan under bin Laden's guidance as early as 2000, before fleeing the US onslaught that followed the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.
He was arrested while trying to cross the border into Pakistan in December 2001. After two months in Pakistani custody, Shihri was handed over to the US and consigned to a prison cell in Guantánamo Bay for six years.
When the Bush administration tried to reduce the number of inmates inside this bitterly controversial detention centre, Shihri was released in 2007 and sent back to his home country, Saudi Arabia.
Here, the authorities placed him on a course designed to rehabilitate even the most hardened al-Qaeda operatives. The kingdom has trumpeted the alleged success of this scheme, which often allowed its beneficiaries to walk free if they recanted.
Shihri appears to have been released in 2009, whereupon he immediately crossed into neighbouring Yemen and joined AQAP, rising to occupy its second highest position.
पोस्ट्स
१८० टिप्पण्या:
But he promised not to engage in terrorism when he was released. He promised! He really, really promised. What a sad world when you can't trust terrorists to keep their promises.
This is an example of why the legal system has enfeebled our war effort.On this Bush effed up. He should have stated these clowns were illegal combatants, outside of the Geneva Convention and simply should have interrogated him and then shot him.
And yet I heard on more than one occasion from acquaintances and neighbors in social situations no less that they were sure that the Guantanomo detainees were innocent. This of course was when W was in office.
I hope no water got up his nose.
From the Telegraph:
"A well-aimed missile then destroyed the house where the gathering was taking place . . ."
I like the description of the missile as "well-aimed." So very British. And much more effective than a poorly-aimed missile.
But, but...detention without trial was damaging US' standing in the world. All right-thinking people at the time assured us so. GTMO was a blight on our nat'l honor, etc.
At least he wasn't tortured at the end. Just smashed into tiny bits.
Well, Gitmo is closed anyway, righit?,so. What's the big deal?
What Michael said.
O promised it would be the first thing he did as TOTUS.
Clearly he reverted to terrorism because of Evil Whitey. Therefore, the Revolutionary Actions by this Poor Oppressed Minority were justified. His murder by AmeriKKKa was wrong.
Oh, but Obama was president when he was murdered. And anything a Black Lefty does is always correct. Any criticism of his actions is Racist.
So when a Black Lefty kills a Poor Oppressed Minority for committing Revolutionary Actions...what then? Whose is at fault?
Racist! How dare you even ask those questions!
Clearly, this entire Tragedy is Evil Whitey's fault.
Seig Heil, Mein Obama!
The Bush administration fucking up the war on terror? This is my surprised face.
To summarize;
- We're glad he's tote (dead).
- yeah, Bush let him go, after
- getting abuse from our "friends" the Saudi's and from our internal leftist appeasement party
-
Too bad the current adminstration doesn't have someplace like Gitmo anymore.
You know, so we could capture these terrorist a$$holes and squeeze them for what they know. Based on the article, he knew a lot.
our policy appears to be to kill them one at a time, rather than capturing them and getting useful, Intel so we can kill them in bunches
No, it's the Lefties being their normal, traitorous selves.
Our Little Zero was one of the ones who continually whined about "torture" and wanted Gitmo closed. The Dubya Administration move was to quiet them down.
Another thrilling foreign policy success from the Messiah whose qualification came from his living in Indonesia for 4 years.
PS Hatman's surprised face looks an awful lot like his stupid face.
Andy R., irony is a multi-edged sword.
You can't really keep people locked up forever because of what they might do. If anyone is going to be let go, some of the wrong people are going to be let go.
The stupid involved with Guantanamo politics is that it was all bad choices, one way or another, and some people wanted to act like they were the saints.
Obama was one of those. He was going to close Guantanamo! Yay! And he got to be president and found out that closing Guantanamo actually involved deciding what to do instead. Boo-hoo. Sad Obama. Never mind that any marginally functional person who gave it a thought or two past the politics of it would have realized it was more complicated than that.
When the Bush administration tried to reduce the number of inmates inside this bitterly controversial detention centre, Shihri was released in 2007 and sent back to his home country, Saudi Arabia.
Its interesting that by painting Bush as a barbarian for holding these people for trial by military commissions... the alternative... execution w/o a trial is now seen as de rigour.
Obama got it wrong.. but the record does not reflect that.
Synova, we do keep people locked up because of what they might do. That's what prisons are really for. What would be the purpose of locking them up just because of what they already did?
So even though republicans let him go, it's the Democrats' fault...
Nice bubble you got here...
BTW, torture is illegal (regardless of which party allows it) and it doesn't work as claimed...
It just good for payback...
The Bush administration fucking up the war on terror? This is my surprised face.
Andy.. Military Commissions.. Guantanamo Trials... ring any bells?
Amazing that when Obama fixed a mistake made by Bush all you conservatives do is criticize. It's Obama derangement syndrome.
machine, torture is legal, and it works.
You meant to say, I think, that it's immoral, or beneath us, or something like that. There's an argument.
Lefties giving Pres. Obama a pass for doing what they spent 8 years lambasting Pres. Bush for.
This is my surprised face.
2006: Bush keeps terrorists in GITMO: BAD.
Bush kills foreigners with drones and missiles: BAD.
Obama demands and promises the release of terrorists in GITMO: GOOD.
2012: Obama keeps terrorists in GITMO: GOOD.
Obama kills foreigners with drones and missiles: GOOD.
Bush released terrorists from GITMO: BAD.
"So even though republicans let him go, it's the Democrats' fault...
Nice bubble you got here..."
If you're thinking in terms of "fault." The pressure to get people out of Guantanamo was intense. The only way to be certain that people were not returned to lead the fight was to keep them there. Was moving people out of Guantanamo wrong? I don't know that it was wrong. But if someone is going to blame Bush, then they'd be better off checking themselves and their hypocrisy.
"BTW, torture is illegal (regardless of which party allows it) and it doesn't work as claimed...
It just good for payback..."
Water-boarding, at least, seems to have produced a great deal of accurate, actionable, intelligence. Stuff that could be checked, followed up upon, and proven to be legitimate. That doesn't make it right or wrong, it just means that "never works" is a lie.
But really, assassinations are way more moral. (eye roll)
A cite to an article by a civil liberties attorney if proof that it works?
How about "(a) former senior interrogator in Iraq says that abusing prisoners results in unreliable information, costs American lives, and it still hasn't (sic)turned up Bin Laden."
I believe the actual interrogators...and John Wayne would never torture a prisoner...
AlieOpp. You do remember, do you not, the daily fucking screeching from the left about the horrors of Gitmo and the constant calls to release those members of the religion of peace who had not been given hearings, much less fair trials, much less read their rights? You don't remember any of that do you? And now we have a president who kills American citizens from drones a world away and we hear crickets from the peace loving left. You have no shame.
"Water-boarding, at least, seems to have produced a great deal of accurate, actionable, intelligence."
If this were true, Cheney would have had Libby leak the evidence...
Can't be too hard on the President, though. He's still trying to figure out the iphone. Pretty soon, he'll be able to figure out Windows XP. OK, so that might take some more time. Not like we elected him to be smart or anything.
Amazing that when Obama fixed a mistake made by Bush...
...= "extrajudicial killing".
Amazing how standards for detainee treatment change when the White House occupant does.
So even though republicans let him go, it's the Democrats' fault...
There is a convenient memory lapse going on here.
Dont you mother fuckers remember Gitmo referred to as a "gulag"? The US prestige will never recover... The US compared to the Soviet Union... bla bla bla.
The terrorist were going to be tried by the laws of war the same way its been done for hundreds of years.
But NOOOO. Trials were not good enough for Bush haters.... who (damned amnesics) tried to bring the 911 mastermind for trail here to lower Manhattan... until New Yorkers found out and Obama and Holder had to backtrack... and he still sits in where?
Guantanamo.
Michael,
American citizens who plot to kill thousands of American citizens, you are a hypocrite.
American citizens who live in terrorist camps and hideouts, who plot with foreign terrorist to kill Americans. Immoral to kill instantly but not torture? Height of hypocrisy.
@Allieoop:
Amazing that when Obama fixed a mistake made by Bush all you conservatives do is criticize.
"Fixed a mistake"= murder without trial.
Whereas before, you argued that "capture and try by military tribunal" ="barbaric."
Combined with your hatred of free speech, believing the government should suppress it, is it any wonder you're a leftist, or that our country is going down the toilet?
This is why I no longer believe in democracy.
Allie, being a citizen should mean something. It really should.
Killing citizens, on purpose, extra-judicially, should be wrong. By accident because they're in the way of a bomb? Not so much, be they an idiot "human shield" or a journalist or a combatant.
But targeting them *should* require a trial and due process and a judgement.
Because not treating our own citizens as special and entitled to constitutional protections is wrong.
AllieOpp. Then you dont think American citizens are due a fair trial? You think they can be arbitrarily picked off and killed in total contravention of our laws? Because of intelligence gathered by the people who gave us weapons of mass destruction. You are confused, and over your head.
@Allieoop:
American citizens who live in terrorist camps and hideouts, who plot with foreign terrorist to kill Americans. Immoral to kill instantly but not torture? Height of hypocrisy.
---Such a liar, you are.
You're the hypocrite here.
The people in Gitmo were not tortured. It did not fit any definition of torture under the law. If Obama could convict Bush of torture, he'd have no problem taking it to trial. But no loaw would support him.
People like you should be assassinated by drones.
Allie, whatever you personally believe about the propriety of keeping and killing terrorists, the people you vote with, people like Andy and machine, compared America with the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany right up until their own guy started doing the exact same thing when he got into office.
Obama is doing those things, not because he's evil, but because he found out the situation was lot more complicated than he thought back when he a was a state senator. Andy and machine don't care--they're just blue monkeys flinging feces at the red monkeys. But they are using this high-flown moral language to do so.
And criticizing Bush, and Bush's supporters, for Bush doing something they used to say he was war criminal for not doing.
So I won't tolerate any talk of hypocrisy from people like them.
And treating everyone on the planet as if they're US citizens is like Mormons baptizing dead Jews.
Whore, where have I argued that capture and trail by military tribunal= barbaric? Hatred of free speech or hatred of hate speech that YOU engage in when it comes to black Americans, not surprising coming from a white supremacist such as yourself. Take a look at this guy's website.
Why are you making shit up, that usually happens when you have no good argument.
American citizens who live in terrorist camps and hideouts, who plot with foreign terrorist to kill Americans. Immoral to kill instantly but not torture? Height of hypocrisy.
Oh c'mon, Allie. In 2008 we heard all about how GWB's military tribunals were a huge affront to Democracy, the rule of law, and would make the US lose friends and influence the world over. Lots and lots of shrieking about GTMO, waterboarding and fierce moral urgency to remove this stain from America's hands.
The Pres. orders people killed, and the left is nothing but a bunch of apologists.
And you accuse the right of hypocrisy?
Amazing that when Obama fixed a mistake made by Bush all you conservatives do is criticize. It's Obama derangement syndrome.
Allie who ran on a campaign promise to close Gitmo? Why do you think Obama ran on closing Gitmo?
The clamor to close it was because it was being painted as another.. what was the name of the prison in Iraq? Abugraib? and Obama w/o thinking of the ramifications ran on it because it was popular and even the UN wanted to intervene.
This is the result of the politicisation of National Security.
This is fucking war we are talking about... the result of the killing of hundres of Americans.. this is not a one upmanship game!
I give Mr Obama credit for little--but his targeted killings are precisely the response to AQ. Yes--you kill the primary target, and if their families and associates end up dead, bad luck. Its collateral damage. And, of course, the killings are extrajudicial--big fucking deal. The bad guys end up dead, and thats the bottom line.
Nope...just as wrong whoever does it...never said any different...
Michael, I think perhaps you fall back onto the same old shtick of saying I'm confused and in over my head when you think I have a point and you have lost the argument, that's cowardly.
Exactly as Roger J says.
Did they implant a chip in him before releasing him so they could track him?
Re: Killing people with drones. The mind is swiss cheese-y. Was that done during the Bush years? I don't recall.
..where have I argued that capture and trail by military tribunal= barbaric?
Allie dont you go backtracking now.
You are on the other side.. defend it.. or admit you dont know what you are defending.
So, Machine--just how should we deal with these unpleasantries. Gitmo has not been closed, and much of the Bush administration policies have been kept in place. What is your solution, sir.
@machine:Nope...just as wrong whoever does it...never said any different...
Oh, then we can count on your vote for the one guy in this election who has not killed any one with drones or kept terrorists in GITMO?
No?
TOTAL MORAL COMPASS FAILURE
And how many hundreds of thousands or millions of our tax dollars did that missile and its delivery system cost after spending how many hundreds of thousands of tax dollars rehabilitating him? I'm the one threatened with prison if I refuse to pay the taxes and work the hours, days, years to pay for all that? Who are the ones enslaved here?
@AllieOop:
where have I argued that capture and trail by military tribunal= barbaric?
So capture by the military, subject to military rules, prison, and trial are fine with you.
Except part of the military prison rules is interrogation by non-torture means.
Which included water boarding, which was not torture under the law.
Which was barbaric, according to you.
So you're lying, bitch.
hatred of hate speech that YOU engage in.
And you believe that writing that offends you or leftist thought should be banned and punished by the One True Government.
After all, it's "hate speech."
Go fuck yourself, slag.
Why are you making shit up
---Lying about the past only works with other leftists, fascist.
Military Tribunals, Military Commissions were not good enough and dismissed because it was conceived by a republican administration... nothing more nothing less.
@Madison Man: Killing people with drones. The mind is swiss cheese-y. Was that done during the Bush years? I don't recall.
Yep. All the back to the Vietnam War, my friend.
As my friend Allie (I think) alludes: we are in a warfare mode. The results are often not sanitary nor "clean" I do credit Mr Obama for doing the right thing in the undeclared war on AQ.
BTW, I was never in favor of closing GTMO. I voted for Obama, that didn't mean I agreed with every single one of his stances. What is wrong with keeping them incarcerated and giving them trail by military tribunal at GTMO, AS WELL as hunting them down and killing them when possible?
@Allieoop:
Personally, at this point, I have no problem with leveling any foreign power with every nuclear bomb we can spare.
We've learned from history trash like you will whine no matter what kind of foreign military action the U.S. takes.
So we do the one that costs the fewest U.S. lives and resolves the problem the quickest.
Due process is bullshit in this country---George Zimmerman is on trial for defending himself from a violent black thug while you run the kangaroo court. And John Roberts shredded the constitution.
Send them back to the stone age. But this time make it radioactive.
You'd complain no matter how we did it, bitch.
Yes Roger, I agree with you, we are at war, some folks forget that.
Sorry Allie but add me to the chorus saying you are confused.
Synova said...
"So even though republicans let him go, it's the Democrats' fault...
Nice bubble you got here..."
If you're thinking in terms of "fault." The pressure to get people out of Guantanamo was intense.
This is why you can't compromise with the left. Ever. It doesn't matter to them that the side of the compromise they support is the piece that triggered the problem. They only care that they can blame. We constantly hear about Bush running up spending. But Bush's compassionate conservatism model was an attempt to compromise with Democrats. Instead of working together the left simply blames the failures of their preferences on Republicans.
The Tea Party is a much preferred alternative. Maybe they'll get lucky and find a few less venal Democrats they can work with.
Gabriel Hanna said "TOTAL MORAL COMPASS FAILURE".
This is the problem with the left. Leftists tend to like the concept of morality and principles, but they don't hold them or know how to apply them. If Obama does something bad, they don't know how to say "that's bad". It's a moral compass failure.
Rightists tend toward the opposite problem: they tend to apply moral compasses even when they're inappropriate. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, so gay marriage is bad! That's not a failure, but a stuck compass. They don't understand the underlying principles.
machine said...
A cite to an article by a civil liberties attorney if proof that it works?
How about "(a) former senior interrogator in Iraq says that abusing prisoners results in unreliable information, costs American lives, and it still hasn't (sic)turned up Bin Laden."
I believe the actual interrogators...and John Wayne would never torture a prisoner...
9/11/12 9:10 AM
Rebutted by other interrogators who said they did get valuable information. This what happens when lawyers get in to the warefare business. Simple interrogation followed by summary execution is the only way to go. As for US citizens, if they make war on the US outside the borders of the US, fuck 'em. Shoot them on sight or upon capture.
whore of the internet: please tell me why it is a requirement to call Allie a bitch. That crosses the line. You may not agree with her, but such trivial slander beclowns you
BTW, I was never in favor of closing GTMO.
I guess we have to take your word for it even though you've changed your screen name several times and have a history of flip flopping and disappearing your stupider comments.
Lemmy dear, you are always a bit confused, especially late at night when you post multiple comments:)
@AllieOop:
BTW, I was never in favor of closing GTMO.
---1984 was a blueprint for these people.
I voted for Obama,
---- shocking.
that didn't mean I agreed with every single one of his stances.
--bitch, please. You're one of those cunts who'dve claimed that everyone who voted for Obama was in favor of Obamacare, because it was part of his platform, therefore the country was in favor of it.
Judging you by your own rules hurts, doesn't it, bitch?
What is wrong with keeping them incarcerated and giving them trail by military tribunal at GTMO, AS WELL as hunting them down and killing them when possible?
---lol. The lies and contradictions of the left. So do you want a trial or just assassination, slut? If you want due process, you can't argue that due process doesn't matter when its "possible" to just kill them right away.
Once you can capture them, its "possible" to immediately kill them. So either claim you're in favor of killing them right away and don't give a white about trying them, or admit you think waterboarding is ok.
Time's wasting, liar....
BTW, I was never in favor of closing GTMO.
Backtracking just like Holder and Obama...
But just a few minutes ago.. Allie had Obama as the fixer of somebody else fuck-ups.
Admit it... you played politics with National Security.
Its interesting that by painting Bush as a barbarian for holding these people for trial by military commissions... the alternative... execution w/o a trial is now seen as de rigour. // Obama got it wrong.. but the record does not reflect that.
The painting of Bush as barbarian was a specialty of our MSM. That well-oiled painting machinery has gone all rusty now that Obama's the Prez.
The record on executions w/o trial is what it is, though that concept is still Obama's own original picture of terrorism as a civil crime.
The only issues I have is when torture is made US policy and when American citizens do not get due process...
screw the rest...
Lemmy, how can I be backtracking when I NEVER stated that GTMO should be closed, please cite the comment in which I said GTMO should be closed, now get busy.
@RogerJ:
please tell me why it is a requirement to call Allie a bitch.
1. She's a leftist. Therefore, she's a bitch.
2. Civility is bullshit.
3. 12 years of leftists like this whore calling Bush/Cheney a war criminal/hitler, nary a peep from the left to stop the leftists from saying it or castigating them. And you want ME to start playing by the rules THEY aren't?
Shove the civility up your ass. The left are barely human. Treating them as human only allows them to run rings around you.
Playing by civility rules with the left beclowns you.
Remember: John Kerry wrote on the Daily Kos. Al Sharpton and Ed Schultz have their own shows on MSNBC.
Lemmy dear, you are always a bit confused, especially late at night when you post multiple comments:)
Now you want to change the subject.
@machine:The only issues I have is when torture is made US policy and when American citizens do not get due process...
screw the rest...
So you're voting for Romney then. He's the only one in this election who hasn't done it.
You're not?
Oh, so you'll vote for a war criminal when he pretends to be against tax cuts.
Yes Roger, I agree with you, we are at war, some folks forget that.
Ironically enough its usually Democrats with the faulty memories.
I distinctly recall much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the Democrat side of the aisle when the likes of al-Shihiri were paraded shackled and hooded into Gitmo. Now that a Democrat is President I do like how so many Democrats are in Audie Murphy mode.
Personally I applaud Obama for his persistent targeting of Islamic jihadists. It's the only thing he's managed to do right. Maybe Romney should make him Sec. Def.
please cite the comment in which I said GTMO should be closed, now get busy.
you never posted as AllieOop before Obama was elected. try being honest.
@machine: Here's the thing, you admit that Obama's hands are reeking with the blood of murdered US citizens--so you claim. Why aren't you voting against him? You claim the issue is so important it's all you care about.
That's simply a lie. Even you don't believe it.
whoresoftheinternet, "beclowns"...I don't think it means what you think it means.
Lemmy, how can I be backtracking when I NEVER stated that GTMO should be closed, please cite the comment in which I said GTMO should be closed,
Words mean things Allie.
Amazing that when Obama fixed a mistake made by Bush all you conservatives do is criticize..
The mistake made by Bush... presumably is Gitmo which Obama ran on CLOSING!
You do this often Allie.. Its getting old.
@BobEllison:
beclowns"...I don't think it means what you think it means.
---You're one of these people who think dogs should be allowed to sit at the dinner table, and that rioting crowds can be talked down from their looting and murder, right?
I got a bridge to sell you, moron.
X, I was NEVER on Althouse until last year, I didn't know it existed until the protests in Madison. So what was my supposed screen name back on 2008 or before? LMAO.
"This is why you can't compromise with the left. Ever. It doesn't matter to them that the side of the compromise they support is the piece that triggered the problem."
This seems to be true.
Bush gave a Democrat congress anything and everything they wanted, and we're supposed to hold him accountable but never them. And sure, he should be held accountable. But so should they.
I'm not at all interested in saying that people should not have been moved out of Gitmo. But it's a bit rich if the people who were demanding its closure and demanding that those innocent fellows be let go, now figure that Bush did something wrong. Like Andy up there saying that Bush fucked up the war on terror.
But I suppose never compromising, like Obama seems determined to never do, does save one from being blamed by the other guy for working with the other guy.
whore of the internet: while lefties are not my cup of tea, I think we need to consider what they have to say.
And for what its worth I was a career soldier and engaged in some rather unsavory things in Viet Nam. Thats the nature of war. General Sherman said that war is hell--and it is. I dont regret the things I did as long as I brought my troopers back alive.
Allie is more than capable of defending her positions--but to call her a bitch and a cunt says a hell of lot more than you than it does for Allie.
No, Allie, you did not "win" an argument with your stupid emotional one liner. I was trying to be polite in saying you are over your head, but my dear lady you are entirely out of your depth here conflating the illegal with the heroic. What is "cowardly" is failing to more bluntly point out your profound vacuity.
Lemmy I won't respond to you anymore until you start making sense.
whoresoftheinternet, "moron"...I don't think it means what you think it means.
Take a break, buddy. Maybe grab a Coke. You and I are probably on the same side on many issues, but you are not arguing well.
Allie, we know you are Lying Your Ass Off. no acronym needed.
@Synova:Bush gave a Democrat congress anything and everything they wanted, and we're supposed to hold him accountable but never them.
They can't put their rhetoric back in the tube. They said the stuff Obama is doing now is like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. They need to be held accountable for that kind of talk. If they didn't mean it they need to be made to admit it or embarrassed into shutting up. If they did mean it they need to act like it.
What is wrong with keeping them incarcerated and giving them trail by military tribunal at GTMO, AS WELL as hunting them down and killing them when possible?
Because that is a Bush policy?
If memory serves, Obama said those were bad and denounced it as 'shadow justice' but has since reversed himself, I know, shocker. Like everything else, everything Obama says has an expiration date.
Michael, whatever, we have had this go round for quite sometime now, you are anything but polite when you attempt to diminish the capacity of the commenter that you are arguing with, it's low and not in good faith.
As long as I can remember progressives have substituted indignant outrage and outraged indignation for reason and discussion. Back in the 60s when it was relatively new, people took it more seriously.
But we're seeing now they turn it on and off when they want. They don't mean any of it. It's just a way to bully people into giving them what they want.
@RogerJ:
while lefties are not my cup of tea, I think we need to consider what they have to say.
---lol. Why? We're bankrupt as a nation, whitey is being blamed for everything everywhere, flash mobs are targeting white people and no one talks about it, and constitution is in tatters.
Why? Because of listening, considering, and "being fair" to the left.
Allie is more than capable of defending her positions
--if by "defending" you mean "lying" and "changing her logic and argument every other sentence."
but to call her a bitch and a cunt says a hell of lot more than you than it does for Allie.
---lmao. this is why we're in the shit right now: instead of realizing the left is a group of sub-human pieces of shit who aren't civil in the least bit, you instead castigate me for not treating the dogs as humans.
Get your head out of your ass. Asking me to be "civil" to them is like asking me to stay put while a rattlesnake bites me.
You don't reason with a rattlesnake. You crush it under foot.
Lemmy I won't respond to you anymore until you start making sense.
Good. I'm not interested in talking to ignorant political hacks.
AllieOop said...
you are anything but polite when you attempt to diminish the capacity of the commenter that you are arguing with, it's low and not in good faith.
She must be outraged others are stealing her techniques.
"They can't do that to our pledges. Only we can do that to our pledges".
@Bob Ellison:
you and I are probably on the same side on many issues, but you are not arguing well.
--And when did arguing logically every convince a leftist? these people are intellectually incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. They are moronic drains on society.
You talk about "arguing well" but we sit here, mired in Obamacare and a shitty economy and no end in sight and think that if everyone just "argued well" the left would see the light.
news flash: they won't.
Shut them up, shut them out, shut them down. Permanently.
Whore of the internet: we are clearly not going to agree, so lets agree to move on. Please do note, however, that the ONLY policy of Mr Obama I agree with is his drone strikes on AQ leadership--and yes, they are extra judicial. I do hope he keeps it up. Note also, that Miss Allie agreed with me--she is not some squishy liberal. the girl has some steel in her backbone. YOu deployment of cunt and bitch are simply out of bounds.
@RogerJ:
we are clearly not going to agree, so lets agree to move on.
---Listen, shithead, you were the one attempting to make me sit there while a rattlesnake bit me.
Note also, that Miss Allie agreed with me--she is not some squishy liberal.
---LMAO> She ONLY agreed withyou you because she didn't want to criticize Her Dear Leader and she still wanted to blame Bush.
She is an OBVIOUS squishy liberal. She'll say whatever is necessary to defend Mein Obama and attack the right---even if it contradicts what she said a sentence before.
Wake up.
the girl has some steel in her backbone.
---For defending Obama and lying at every turn, yes.
YOu deployment of cunt and bitch are simply out of bounds.
---You still have not made any argument why a leftist deserves civility after Jon Stewart, Michael Moore, Bill Maher, Stephen Colbert, Al Sharpton, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, and Kos are LIONIZED by the left and never criticized by them for being "uncivil."
Explain why I have to follow civility rules with the left when they do not have to.
Explain why dogs deserve to be treated as human.
Roger J. said...
Note also, that Miss Allie agreed with me--she is not some squishy liberal. the girl has some steel in her backbone.
This is not true. Her entire purpose here is to support Obama.
whore of the internet: re your last question--I have enough respect for myself to not resort to the bullshit on the other side of the aisle.
Explain why I have to follow civility rules with the left when they do not have to.
You should follow rules of civility with the people you are interacting with who are doing so in return. Feel free to call Jon Stewart or Michael Moore a cunt when you see them.
Marshall--From what I have seen of Miss Allie's posts, yes she is a "squishy liberal." But on on the issue of taking a war on terror to the perpetrators, she seems to be quite on board. We do not have to agree on all issues; but on the conduct of the war on terror, we do appear to occupy common ground.
Well, I like Allie better all the time.
Others, not so much.
When you act like an ass, people find out you're an ass. Better, as the good book says, not to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
@RobertJ:
I have enough respect for myself to not resort to the bullshit on the other side of the aisle.
---You sound like that guy right in Tienanmen Square right before the tank hit him.
Their bullshit and evil wins, especially when you're stupid enough to hold yourself to a higher standard.
@RogerJ>:
And denyign that Allyoop isn't just opportunistically on board with this just to defend Obama shows how shallow your thinking is.
With "allies" like you, no wonder the left is destroying the country.
@RogerJ>:
And denyign that Allyoop isn't just opportunistically on board with this just to defend Obama shows how shallow your thinking is.
With "allies" like you, no wonder the left is destroying the country.
RE: Jon Stewart-- it could be even worse.
@Synova:
When you act like an ass, people find out you're an ass. Better, as the good book says, not to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
---LMAO.
WHEN HAS THAT EVER WORKED, MORON????
The left is filled with confirmed asses---and THEY RUN THE LEFT AND ARE RESPECTED AND ARE WINNING.
God, you're such a short-sighted little turd.
Dear Leader hunts on a baited field.
Don't wrestle with a pig.
You get dirty, and the pig likes it.
Mad man--apropos this thread, well said--wasnt that Oscar Wilde?
Roger J. said...
Marshall--From what I have seen of Miss Allie's posts, yes she is a "squishy liberal." But on on the issue of taking a war on terror to the perpetrators, she seems to be quite on board.
She's a conventional leftist, but that isn't the problem. The problem is her dishonesty. She makes whatever argument she decides best supports Obama even if it contradicts something she wrote the day before. She may really believe what she wrote, or not. There's no way to tell. But engaging in this sort of partisan hackery is not indicative of "backbone".
@Althouse:
Fine, you're afraid of being called a racist because of what I wrote. Fair enough---its your blog and racism---especially racism against blacks---is a career-killing charge in this leftist-created world.
but its not a Moby comment. Statistically, this is very likely to happen.
Marshall--I am not informed enough to know what Miss Allie's overall political philosophy is--I know it probably leans left. I was only pointing out that she appeared to support the President's policy of targeting killings. That position I agree with; I am not required, however, to agree with her other positions.
Hey, I'm enjoying it! Does that mean I'm a pig?
Actually y'all, my real purpose here on Althouse is to push the Low Carb Agenda;)
@RogerJ:
Wow, so Jon Stewart criticized Obama once? Well that wipes away the lies, assholishness, and propaganda he spews about the non-left daily.
@MadisonMan:
Trying to make me an unperson, eh? Rather not think about the truths I espouse, huh?
Your leftist overlords would be proud. Hopefully an Occutard bombs your home.
note: not encouraging or directing it to happen. Just saying I wouldn't mind if it happened.
@Allieoop:
Actually y'all, my real purpose here on Althouse is to push the Low Carb Agenda
Actually, your real purpose is to defend everything the left does in furtherance of its agenda. By Any Means Necessary
Bitch.
InternetMan is ANGRY! VERY VERY ANGRY!!
Don't you SEE how ANGRY he is? HOW CAN YOU DISPUTE HIS ANGER?!??!
HOW DARE YOU OPPOSE HIM!?!?!??!
FOOLS!! His ANGER overpowers your puny "logic" and "reason"!!
Whore: hate to disabuse you of your opinions, but I do not own a TV and do not watch any of the idiots who cater to their audience.
My only point was this: I agree with Mr Obama's policy of drone strikes, extrajudicial as they might be. I hope he keeps them up, and if collateral damage (wives, children etc) die in the process, bad luck for them. Now I read Allie's comment as agreeing with me.
Any other interpreations you might have are yours alone.
@RogerJ:
hate to disabuse you of your opinions, but I do not own a TV and do not watch any of the idiots who cater to their audience.
--You linked to the site, so clearly you've seen his show somewhere. But you never hold the left accountable for lionizing him, yet you criticize me for doing it right back.
Get your priorities straight.
Now I read Allie's comment as agreeing with me.
---Given every other "defend My Dear Leader at all costs" comment by her, isn't it just a little suspicious to you that she's agreeing with Obama again, despite ripping Bush's policy, which was more benign?
This what Allieoop thinks: She thinks locking them up and interrogating them is torture and a violation of their rights, but murdering them without trial is ok.
Contradiction much?
I think murdering them without trial is fine at this point. Due process and the Constitution are a joke. But Ally's defense is so contradictory, it can only be from the diseased mind of an Obama follower.
Yes Roger, I do agree with you, but I'm sure Marshal and Whore will continue their war on liberals, take no prisoners!!
What would those two guys do if we were attacked again and need to be Americans first? Who would the enemy be?
Whore: as I said earlier, we are not going to agree--I stated my position, you have stated yours. Let us not continue this useless exchange. Fair winds and following seas.
John Wayne would never torture a prisoner...
You have obviously never seen The Searchers.
Anchors Aweigh Roger!
Miss Allie--as you have more than demonstrated, folks that come from different sides of the debate may agree--Now I think clearly both you and are in agreement on THIS issue. doesnt mean that there are other issues that we can disagree on. What I really object to, as I noted in my previous posts, are the egregious sexual allusions. But some people, apparently, feel the need to call people cunts and bitches. That does nothing except to reflect on their bad upbringing.
@AllieOop:
Yes Roger, I do agree with you, but I'm sure Marshal and Whore will continue their war on liberals, take no prisoners!!
---Being a lying lefty hypocrite like yourself, you're incapable of seeing the irony in your last sentence, for several reasons.
What would those two guys do if we were attacked again and need to be Americans first?
--Maybe I'd act the way the left did after 9/11: accuse Obama of being a war criminal, try to have him arrest, riot, bomb buildings, physically attack right-wing voters, and bankrupt the government.
or maybe the way you did during the cold war: be traitors to the US, give aid and comfort to the commies, spy for commie countries, kill US troops, murder children, attack American history, cover up communist gulags, and, when all else failed, encourage "peace and coexistence" and claim anyone who desired to fight for freedom was an animal.
nah. I'd just offer your ass up as a prisoner to Al Queda and then, when they take you back to their 3rd-world shithole (ahem, "Diverse homeland"), nuke you and them to smithereens.
Who would the enemy be?
---The left is always the enemy, whatever form it takes.
What would those two guys do if we were attacked again and need to be Americans first? Who would the enemy be?
That's a good question. I'm sure you recall much introspection on the part of the liberal side of the aisle as to why they hate us and chickens coming home to roost.
I'm not implying you held those views but it didn't come from the GOP/conservative side of the aisle.
Thoughts?
Miss Allie: I am a West Point grad--we would NEVER use achors aweigh--I take back every thing nice i said about you. :)
"The left is always the enemy, whatever form it takes."
That's from Rules for Radicals, right?
@RogerJ:
What the hell would ever convince you that AllieOop is a hypocritical partisan hack?
Think about it: what would Allie have to say or do to prove my point: that she only agrees with your argument as long as Obama supports it; that if he changed his mind overnight, her opinion would change to.
Roger!;)
@BobEllison:
That's from Rules for Radicals, right?
---At this point, whatever works.
Treating them as human has led to society's downfall.
Now we play by their un-rules. Which means one thing:
By Any Means Necessary.
Whore, I wasn't going to respond to your nonsense at all, but seriously, I spied for the Communists when I was s a mere child? I was a prodigy!
Whore: try to wrap your mind around this factoid: Allie and I (and garage as well) are friends on this blog. we do not agree on all political positions. but we are friends who feel free to disagree. When you paint every one who doesnt disagree with you as mortal enemies, you are truly fucked.
"---At this point, whatever works."
It isn't working. Maybe you're a Moby. I'm guessing not, but you're appearing like one. If you truly want to support rightist thinking, think more carefully before you write.
@Allie:
Whore, I wasn't going to respond to your nonsense at all, but seriously, I spied for the Communists when I was s a mere child?
----LMAO. You smear the right as being the same, but suddenly now you're divorced from your commie past?
Please, bitch, we can see your photo. You're old. Old enough to have been around int he 1980s. You DO know the USSR and CUBA and most of your precious, precious commie nations had children REPORT and SPY on their parents, right, stupid? Hell, the Soviets made some kid a national hero for doing it so well!
For the good of the party, comrade!
Goddamn you're stupid.
@Roger J:
WAllie and I (and garage as well) are friends on this blog.
---Yeah, Garage seems like such a civil guy. Bet you criticize him when he steps out of line civilly.....wait, you don't.
Hypocrite.
When you paint every one who doesnt disagree with you as mortal enemies, you are truly fucked.
---The left has done this for generations, and are kicking your ass, old man. You just are too chicken shit to call them on their bullshit.
Try explaining your quisling nature to someone who believes in Santa Claus.
Once again, shithead: Civility is Bullshit. The left has taught me that.
And you still never answered my question about Allie the Obama Whore.
machine said...
So even though republicans let him go, it's the Democrats' fault...
Nice bubble you got here...
Because the damned Democrats were more interesting in political advantage than the country.
BTW, torture is illegal (regardless of which party allows it) and it doesn't work as claimed...
Funny, it wasn't torture when Pelosi Galore and Dingy Harry and the rest of the Democrat brahmins singed off on it.
AllieOop said...
X, I was NEVER on Althouse until last year, I didn't know it existed until the protests in Madison
Technically true.
He/she/it wasn't on as Oop.
He/she/it was on as Mitochondri-Allie until she left for Troop's after Bloody Sunday.
@BobEllison:
It isn't working.
---Occutards are bombing shit and raping women and throwing feces around and are the base of the Democrat party.
Maybe we should start doing that.
If you truly want to support rightist thinking, think more carefully before you write.
---lol. Yeah, we're in such a great position from all the "careful thinking" the anti-left has done since WW2.
What we need is action. And shutting them down.
I don't expect trash like you to be on board. You're too busy worrying if the left will get angry at you.
This thread reads like an episode of "Breaking Bad" without the meth.
Garage and I have exchanged memphis ribs for Wisconsin cheese and brats; we love fishing, although I think he is dead wrong when he claims northerns are better eating than walleyes. And I care about his daughter who has some major medical issues--these things do not emerge in flame wars on the internet and garage has not shared those with other than his friends. As for Allie? a classy lady whose political opinions I dont agree with but I do respect her opinions.
So Mr Whore: if you choose to paint people as black or white as your political philosphy dictates, so be it. It is, IMO, a caricature that does stand up. But you are welcome to it. I dont chose to participate.
"What the hell would ever convince you that AllieOop is a hypocritical partisan hack?"
Certainly not you. Not even in the sense of it takes one to know one.
Because you're disrespecting everyone with the assumption that they're just too stupid to disagree with someone, or see the faults in their arguments, without being told in nasty terms by a helpful person like yourself.
Are we supposed to say, thank you for treating everyone like brain dead idiots? Why THANK YOU because I'm too stupid to figure it out on my own?
Honestly. You must be a lonely soul bereft of your soul mates who get to hate conservative racists who want to rape women and make them have babies. Feel left out?
People on the left who act like that, like you, and they DO, are not winning. Don't make excuses. Take a deep breath and go out and plant daffodils or something.
Whore, the cold war started in 1947, I was born in 1952, I was a child during the height of the cold war. In 1980 I was busy having children, later still I was busy working as nurse and raising my four kids after their father passed away.
I was never nor am I now a member of the Communist Party, Whore McCarthy.
although I think he is dead wrong when he claims northerns are better eating than walleyes.
Northerns better than walleyes? That's not even a subject for debate. Science is settled and all that.
AllieOop said...
Yes Roger, I do agree with you, but I'm sure Marshal and Whore will continue their war on liberals, take no prisoners!!
What would those two guys do if we were attacked again and need to be Americans first?
And this just after you whined Michael...you are anything but polite when you attempt to diminish the capacity of the commenter that you are arguing with, it's low and not in good faith.
Are you having trouble keeping your voices straight again? That faux respect for good faith disappeared as soon as something else worked better. I wonder why you keep doing that? It's almost like the principles you claim aren't actually principles you hold, you're just picking whatever you think works at that particular moment in time. You should work on that.
Colonel Angus--that was Garage's position upon which I diagree entirely--Now I have been known to eat Northerns in Saskatchewan when we couldnt catch walleye--but that was out of despiration and the need for a shore dinner.
@RogerJ:
Garage and I have exchanged memphis ribs for Wisconsin cheese and brats; we love fishing, although I think he is dead wrong when he claims northerns are better eating than walleyes.
---Heartwarming. Its like Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda. Except without the traitor-to-her-country daughter.
And I care about his daughter who has some major medical issues--
---He deserves it. Actually, he deserves a lot worse.
these things do not emerge in flame wars on the internet and garage has not shared those with other than his friends.
---No, he just acts like an uncivil asshole and YOU NEVER CALL HIM ON IT.
Hypocrite.
As for Allie? a classy lady whose political opinions I dont agree with but I do respect her opinions.
---You still have not answered my question about her beliefs.
It is, IMO, a caricature that does stand up. But you are welcome to it. I dont chose to participate.
---No, you just castigate your own side while letting these pieces of trash act however they want.
Hypocrite.
Marshall: ? did not understand your post.
OMG, I love Walleye Pike!
@Synova:
Certainly not you. Not even in the sense of it takes one to know one.
---Please. Fuck Bush's bailout. Fuck any R who voted Tim Geithner in. FUCK JOHN ROBERTS.
Partisan is not me, baby. I stick to my political principles.
Because you're disrespecting everyone with the assumption that they're just too stupid to disagree with someone, or see the faults in their arguments, without being told in nasty terms by a helpful person like yourself.
---The left deserves NO RESPECT for what they've done since Bush took office in 2000.
Are we supposed to say, thank you for treating everyone like brain dead idiots? Why THANK YOU because I'm too stupid to figure it out on my own?
--Someone must bring you the light, dear child.
Honestly. You must be a lonely soul bereft of your soul mates who get to hate conservative racists who want to rape women and make them have babies. Feel left out?
---Ah, another woman who loves to murder children. Such a great soul.
People on the left who act like that, like you, and they DO, are not winning.
---LMAO. YES THEY ARE. They run the party which controls the white house and senate and supreme court. They own the airwaves. They are bankrupting the country.
Lying about reality doesn't work.
Don't make excuses. Take a deep breath and go out and plant daffodils or something.
---"Ignore the destruction of your country! Be civil to the Nazis! Its ok, Obama will save us all!"
Child.
You're the kind of piece of shit who would've told the men in 1775 to stop arming themselves and lay down for their overlords.
Get bent.
Whore, the cold war started in 1947, I was born in 1952, I was a child during the height of the cold war. In 1980 I was busy having children, later still I was busy working as nurse and raising my four kids after their father passed away.
---The Cambridge Five had careers and lives too---whilst betraying the West for the Soviets.
I was never nor am I now a member of the Communist Party, Whore McCarthy.
---Maybe (we can never tell---leftists lie for any reason), but your movement certainly is in bed with them and has no trouble betraying America for it. Your philosophy is one of oppression, murder, and destruction.
No seriously? Moby?
Because if you're trying to pretend to be Crack, you're missing most of the nuance and all of the effectiveness.
Take a deep breath and go outside and get some air. Enjoy the sunshine. Plant some flowers.
Synova is one of the most intelligent and principled commenters and women on Althouse, I'm sure we don't agree on politics and most social issues, but I respect her tremendously. Whore you would have to look up to touch the hem of her garment.
@Synova:
Take a deep breath and go outside and get some air. Enjoy the sunshine. Plant some flowers.
---Its not 1984 in Synova's world. it's Brave New World. I'm waiting for this oppression-lover and babykiller to start passing out the Soma.
Maybe this has been covered already, but I just thought of a new Internet Law.
The quality of a comment thread declines when the proportion of comments made by or directed to a single commenter increases.
An obvious exception would be for announcements of pregnancy, birth and the like.
@Allie the Obama Whore:
Synova is one of the most intelligent and principled commenters and women on Althouse, I'm sure we don't agree on politics and most social issues, but I respect her tremendously. Whore you would have to look up to touch the hem of her garment.
--"The Party Leaders are great people full of integrity!"
"Who says?"
"The party leaders, comrade!"
Seig Heil, Mein Obama!
Sick Puppy Syndrome. No blame to conservatives for this guy, unbalanced extremists on both sides, sadly.
Nope. Moby. Moby or off its meds.
And I'd rather have freedom with risk than go along with anyone who is preaching oppression and control in the cause of good. Tyranny should always be opposed.
@Allie the Obama Whore:
Please tell us again exactly how imprisoning and interrogating people is unforgivable torture, but murdering them without trial is completely ok.
We're waiting, Mr. Carney...I mean Allie....
to all a good night
@Synova:
And I'd rather have freedom with risk than go along with anyone who is preaching oppression and control in the cause of good. Tyranny should always be opposed.
---Yet you tell me to stop opposing the left with the VERY same tactics they use against use.
lol. You're not in it for freedom. You're in it to destroy it.
Civility to the left is bullshit.
And Allie the Obama Whore's attempts to make me an un-person are very amusing. First she claims she never liked communism or had anything to do with it, and now she uses Soviet tactics.
Ten bucks says she's got a picture of Jane Fonda in Hanoi that she masturbates to every night.
Another ten says she's done it in front of Roger J. and he doesn't say a word.
Mr. Carney? Oy.
I'll have you know all my lady parts are still in their respective places.
@Allie the Obama Whore:
Note how Allie, knowing she is caught in her own web of lefty lies, tries to rapidly change the subject.
No doubt half of Wisconsin has seen your lady parts, Obama Whore.
Do svidaniya, Whore.
Roger J. said...
Marshall: ? did not understand your post.
_______
The 11:04? It didn't address anything you wrote. I'm merely pointing out Allie's hypocrisy. She criticized Michael for "attempt[ing] to diminish the capacity of the commenter that you are arguing with, it's low".
Then she followed this up with: What would those two guys do if we were attacked again and need to be Americans first? Who would the enemy be?
So according to Allie it's inappropriate to diminish a commenter's capacity, which presumably translates to arguing personally rather than on the subject of the disagreement. But when convenient she has no problems insulting those she dislikes. So it seems she doesn't have a problem arguing personally except when she's the target.
RogerJ. Nice posts, by the way. I am reminded of the words of Philo of Alexandria who said something like "Be kind for they too are engaged in a great struggle."
Thanks from Parkside and Ivy!
@Allie the Obama Whore:
Given your opposition to free speech and your cheerleading for the left, I'm sure you'd like the government to make me leave.
After all I spew "hate facts." I am an "affront" to free speech.
@Michael:
Kissing RogerJ.'s ass will not help him see that Allie is an Obama Whore.
Althouse, can we just make 'whores' go away? It's not just one comment of his that's in bad faith!
I like the description of the missile as "well-aimed." So very British.
I remember reading a British newspaper report about a baby carriage that had gotten loose and went in a canal.
The the last line was, "the situation ended badly."
Look, we got exactly what we should have expected. Leftists complained about "torture." So, America released the terrorists. The next time America found the released terrorists, America killed them.
It's pretty simple, really, and should be no surprise, except to stupid lefties who are congenitally unable to apprehend the consequences of their desires or actions.
It was also predicted.
Just erase "Bush" and "Obama" from the equation, boys and girls:
If America cannot interrogate them, America will kill them.
It's oh-so-much more humane. N'est-ce pas?
Nomennovum,
One probably with your snarky equation: we have no evidence that most of those released from Gitmo have subsequently engaged in any terrorist acts or hostilities toward America, and even the military admitted those most of those initially imprisoned there had no business being there, given the utter absence of any evidence they had engaged in terrorism or acts of hostility against America before they were kidnapped and dumped into Gitmo.
I am not about to be drawn into that old arguement, Mr. Cook, but please note I was born some nineteen thousand days ago.
So, you're a youngster.
Unfortunately, no, but AllieOop, I hear, was born yesterday.
So, she's like Judy Holliday? Delightful!
Parole boards have this problem all the time in that you can only lose by releasing someone from custody. You're on the hook for anything bad that person does for the rest of his life.
"I was born some nineteen thousand days ago."
That's good, N., but not old enough to have entered second childhood as Mr. Cook has.
Sounda a bit of skeet shooting by us.
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