ADDED: It's Norway's "restorative" justice approach:
A comfortable cell, clean and relaxing environment, and nice daily activities such as cooking classes are all meant to prepare the criminal for potentially difficult or painful internal reformation. Incarceration, in this thinking, is the treatment for whatever social or psychological disease led them to transgress. The criminals are not primarily wrongdoers to be punished, but broken people to be fixed....
Despite the lighter sentences, restorative justice systems seem to reduce crime, reduce the cost of imprisoning criminals, and reduce recidivism....
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५० टिप्पण्या:
I don't wish evil on anyone, and I don't wish good on evil persons, but there is a part of me that desperately wants this guy to get out in ten years, and try to do the same thing again........
Who thinks it would have been a worse result for one of his soon-to-be victims to have pulled out a concealed carry handgun and shot Breivik in the head?
The sentence only reflects the fruits of enlightened progressivism Scandanavian-style, what else do you expect Ann. All the liberal friends on the left side of your extended "family" should applaud and nod their little progressive heads in agreement..
I'm interested in whether or not there's any protests about this sentence in Norway. It seems insane to us, but to them? What is their rationale?
Yes, Norway is insane.
Oh, Europe.
I recently read Irish novelist Tana French's terrific new book, Broken Harbor, which--SPOILER ALERT--involved a woman murdering her husband and two young children, and at one point the veteran detective says to the rookie detective (who sympathizes with the murderer) words to the effect of, "She'll probably get ten to fifteen years. Now, I know that seems like a lot, but she'll get out and have a whole life ahead of her."
Being a Texan, I had to read that passage out loud to my husband and we shared a grim chuckle at the notion that in Ireland, 10-15 years in prison is considered a long sentence, and one that is likely and appropriate for someone who killed her family.
Not long ago some fool in our area was sentenced to twelve years in the pokey without parole for taking a drunk potshot at a cop which didn't even hit him.
And they claim the death penalty is barbaric?
It is not as bad as it seems.
Breivik got the maximum sentence for a crime - 21 years - but with "forvaring" he will most likely remain in jail for the rest of his life. "Forvaring" is a preventive commitment for those that are a danger to society or likely to commit the same crime. The maximum sentence for "forvaring" is 10 years, but the sentence can be extended, in increments of up to 5 years, for as long as necessary.
States are not sane or insane. But, they either follow their laws or let public passions override them.
Leftards have proven they are batshit crazy. I told you this already.
Of course Althouse leaves out one little tidbit: "However, that [sentence] can be prolonged at a later date if he is deemed to remain a danger to society."
I wonder why Althouse, a law professor, never wonders whether America's criminal justice system is insane. America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, yet America's streets are far more violent than Norway's or most other places in the free, developed world, and our recidivist rate for inmates is extremely high compared to Norway's. We also have found, with the help of DNA, that America has a high number of innocent people who have been locked up. Furthermore, prosecutors in the United States are trained to routinely abuse their power, for example by over-charging defendants in order to force plea bargains.
Norway is one of the safest countries in the world, with one of the highest quality of life ratings.
And, while America has a tendency towards wild over-reactions, starting with the Oklahoma City bombing that immediately was used as a pretext for the Anti-Terrorism And Effective Death Penalty Act, here's perhaps a more sane country:
[A]t the political level, the Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg pledged to do everything to ensure the country's core values were not undermined.
"The Norwegian response to violence is more democracy, more openness and greater political participation," he said.
A year later it seems the prime minister has kept his word.
There have been no changes to the law to increase the powers of the police and security services, terrorism legislation remains the same and there have been no special provisions made for the trial of suspected terrorists.
On the streets of Oslo, CCTV cameras are still a comparatively rare sight and the police can only carry weapons after getting special permission.
Even the gate leading to the parliament building in the heart of Oslo remains open and unguarded.
Breivik showed the Nazi salute in court before taken to his prison cell to rot, but it looks like it is America as a country that's been showing Nazi tendencies as a response to terrorism.
I am curious as to how they assess whether he's a danger to society in 21 year's time. How does he "prove" he's not going to kill again? A lie detector? A sudden year-20 conversion to multiculturalism? Or is this a back-door life sentence, by judges one after another decreeing they're unconvinced?
To sentence him to a longer (life), or more severe (death) sentence would in essence be caving in, and agreeing with Breivik that Yes, there is something wrong with the Norwegian mindset. Breivik was by his action saying that people are at their heart are bad, and there is a real evil in this world. And in response the Norwegian legal system is saying, No. no you're not, And to prove how committed we are to this position, we are going to remove you from society for some period of time until you can come to your senses and see thing our way.
The final terminus of "We are all brothers," is indeed the insanity of not doing away with a brother who kills.
Of course, Norway's insane.
It's Socialist. These are the people who blame the girl for being "provocative" when she's gang-raped by a pack of Moslems.
You know, only the uncouth Yanks are so vindictive. They never let go. The Japanese won't prosecute their murderers who manage to stay free for 20 years. Killing and eating a man netted a German a few years.
EuroLand, Killers' Paradise.
I am curious as to how they assess whether he's a danger to society in 21 year's time. How does he "prove" he's not going to kill again? A lie detector?
I don't know the details of how it works, but I do know that there would be intense societal pressure not to release him. And if he were released, he would not stay alive very long if stayed in Norway.
BTW, the US is much more lenient, in many ways, when it comes to prosecuting criminals. In Norway, there's no need for a unanimous verdict to convict, the prosecution can appeal if the defendant is acquitted, there is no absolute double jeopardy protection, no major exclusionary rule problems and no right against self-incrimination.
It's Socialist. These are the people who blame the girl for being "provocative" when she's gang-raped by a pack of Moslems.
Sounds like bullshit. You have a link to back that up?
Is Norway sane?
Hardly any more insane than Japan was all those years when they had a 15 year statute of limitations on murder. Which people have used successfully as a defense. (They got rid of it a few years ago). Different countries just punish things differently.
You know, only the uncouth Yanks are so vindictive. They never let go. The Japanese won't prosecute their murderers who manage to stay free for 20 years.
Ah I see someone already mentioned Japans SOL on murder. I think they changed it in 2010, to increase SOL for everything, and bump SOL for crimes carrying the death penalty (including murder) so there is no longer an SOL.
I can't wait to see what happens.
Breivik showed the Nazi salute in court before taken to his prison cell to rot,
I thought it took longer than 10 years to rot. Hmmm ... what do I know?
Each morning a missionary advertise with neon sign.
He tells the native population that civilization is fine.
And three educated savages holler from a bongo tree,
That civilization is a thing for me to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCY09s-c41A
Civilization, I'll stay right here.
Norway is one of the safest countries in the world, with one of the highest quality of life ratings.
Why is that?
EMD quotes and asks in response:
"'Norway is one of the safest countries in the world, with one of the highest quality of life ratings.'
Why is that?"
I don't claim to know much about Norway, but I'll bet it does not have a significant underclass.
Call Texas's penal system barbaric if you will, but Breivik would be guaranteed not to kill again. I would not personally be bothered by that.
"And if he were released, he would not stay alive very long if stayed in Norway."
Ah, those renowned Norwegian vigilantes. Too bad Dirty Hansel was indisposed when this guy was wandering around murdering people at will.
"BTW, the US is much more lenient, in many ways, when it comes to prosecuting criminals."
Oh, ok. So they probably lock up more innocent people. But that's ok, because they'll get out soon anyway. Win win.
Amexpat,
See here. An excerpt:
Five days before 9/11, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet reported that 65% of the country's rapes were committed by "non-western" immigrants – a category which, in Norway, is almost wholly Muslim. A professor at the University of Oslo explained that one reason for the disproportionate Muslim share of the rape market was that in their native lands "rape is scarcely punished" because it is generally believed that "it is women who are responsible for rape".
So Muslim immigrants to Norway should be made aware that things are a little different in Scandinavia, right?
Not at all! Rather, the professor insisted, "Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes" because their manner of dress would be regarded by Muslim men as inappropriate. "Norwegian women must realize that we live in a multicultural society and adapt themselves to it." Or to modify Queen Victoria's wedding-night advice to her daughter: lie back and think of Yemen.
...with "forvaring" he will most likely remain in jail for the rest of his life.
Amexpat is right. That's what my knowledgeable European friend tells me.
I had a similar discussion on Facebook with a commenter who implored that we should "be more like Denmark."
The problem is we've never been anything like Denmark. The notion that a country born of revolt with a fierce independent streak bred into its political origins would ever behave like a small, homogenous, monarchical society is absurd.
Funny stuff, Oaf. Just imagine how safe Detroit would be if only they applied Norway's "compassionate" criminal justice practices!
@michelle
I was responding to the false assertions that These are the people who blame the girl for being "provocative" when she's gang-raped by a pack of Moslems.
How does a comment from a single university professor, whose view does not reflect the opinions of an overwhelming majority of Norwegians, or the law, constitute the attitude of a "people"?
Maguro said...
Funny stuff, Oaf. Just imagine how safe Detroit would be if only they applied Norway's "compassionate" criminal justice practices!
They would just stick them all together in Detroits dead zones, build a wall around them and call it a day. Hey, escape from Detroit!!
Amexpat said...
@michelle
I was responding to the false assertions that These are the people who blame the girl for being "provocative" when she's gang-raped by a pack of Moslems.
How does a comment from a single university professor, whose view does not reflect the opinions of an overwhelming majority of Norwegians, or the law, constitute the attitude of a "people"?
Would you think it fair to opine that this particular professor was trying to reconcile Norways societal pressures and his comments reflect the difficulty in doing so?
Amexpat,
How does a comment from a single university professor, whose view does not reflect the opinions of an overwhelming majority of Norwegians, or the law, constitute the attitude of a "people"?
It doesn't, of course. But you asked for a link, and here is one Norwegian saying, unambiguously, that Norwegian women need to adjust how they dress given the presence of Muslim men, because otherwise they are complicit in their own rapes.
I would suggest also checking out Bruce Bawer's site (www.brucebawer.com). As a gay man now living in Norway, he has, um, some opinions on what Muslim immigration into Norway has meant for people like himself. (Unfortunately for most of us, the majority of the material at his site is in Norwegian, but you can find things in English translation via Google.)
@Michelle
Again, I was responding to a quote claiming These are the people who blame the girl for being "provocative" when she's gang-raped by a pack of Moslems. and i wanted a link to back it up.
If a foreigner claimed that Americans believe that a women cannot get pregnant from a legitimate rape and you challenged that assertion, would you accept a link to a comment by a solitary member Congress as a serious effort to prove that point?
Also, I didn't see the professor's name or the whole quote. Like in the US, there are number of looney professors with tenure. There are also bloggers who take quotes out context or repeat hearsay.
BTW, I live in Norway, in a building complex with a number of Muslim families. I haven't experienced any problems but they do occur. Just as they do in the US.
Odds are there is a grieving father in Norway just waiting for this SOB to get out of prison...
There's another reason why scandinavian countries have lower crime rates than the US. The weather. Crime rates always go down when it's colder, even in Chicago.
Has nothing to do with a homogenous population. Or having a small population.
"It is not as bad as it seems." -Amexpet
Amexpet, you disgust me. You are delusional ignorant who is incapable to understand what kind world you are living in.
Why you dare to ignore Marshal's last comment?
Why you dare to make an excuse so you can ignore/deny Michelle Dulak Thomson's link?
"I haven't experienced any problems but they do occur. Just as they do in the US."
That is because you didn't hang around with them to understand their views. Why don't you ask them about what do they think of Holocaust,homosexuals, "outsiders" dating their sisters and daughters, or women rights?
Amexpat. Tell me. What do you think this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQwn4-jXNLs
You and your vile socialists are fucking insane.
Ignoring problems and blaming your problems on "evil rich people" by calling for more taxes and welfares is pathetic.
Anders Behring Breivik is 33 now, so he'll be between 43 and 54 years old when he's released.
Has there been any indication whatsoever that he's likely to change his views in that time? How many days after he's released will it take before he's killing children once again.
Even if Europeans can't bring themselves to execute mass murderers, the sentence seems too light by several orders of magnitude. 100 days per murder victim? Can that ever be right?
I was in Norway last month and a guide on a tour expounded and vented about Brevik. One of the (unplanned) stops was a quick look at the memorial opposite the island where the shooting took place (small place but much too far from the shore to swim in a cold sea easily)
The guide's main concern seemed to be the huge cost of keeping Brevik for the next 21 years. There was sadness over what he did - but more anger over the haplessness of the Norwegian police in reacting and in the Norwegian judiciary in not being able to truly punish this loon. Sequential sentences would have been a first start.
Makes sense. It seems unlikely that should he be released he will kill another 77 people. At least not at once. Loafing oaf really hates America, I see. If only the us would trade freedom for cradle to the grave state support. Such a wonderful country it would be.
I don't claim to know much about Norway, but I'll bet it does not have a significant underclass.
94% of Norway's population is Norwegian, another 4% is European and 2% is classified as "other" (mostly Muslim immigrants). 86% of Norwegians are Evangelical Lutheran (Church of Norway). 100% of the population is literate. Over the last 14 years, the unemployment rate averaged 3.5%. Currently it's 3%. So, no significant underclass is a good bet. A very good bet.
Not sure what the point of rehabilitation is when the prisoner will never be released.
"I thought it took longer than 10 years to rot. Hmmm ... what do I know?"
You thought he'll only be locked up for 10 years because this blog just wanted a post where the Althouse Hillbillies called Norway "insane". As expected, no one wants to examine the American criminal justice system.
The overwhelming likelihood is that he'll spend the rest of his life in prison.
Althouse Hillbillies
No matter how "reasonable" the lefties claim to be their juvenile name calling always seeps out. It's particularly amusing from someone whining about American prosecutors abuse of power while extolling a system which includes virtually unlimited prosecutorial discretion. Sense is never their stong point.
You lose the deterrent effect of prison when you hand out such light sentences. Why not be a terrorist if you are only going to get 10 to 21 years? It may even turn you into a celebrity; you are sure to have followers.
What would the sentences be if Breivik had committed his crime in Russia, and Pussy Riot committed theirs in Norway?
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