२१ डिसेंबर, २०११
"We gave Saddam a fair trial, and we will give Hashemi a fair trial too."
Assurances to the Kurds, who are urged to hand over Tariq al-Hashemi, Iraq's VP, a Sunni Muslim, accused of terrorism. The President of Iraq is Shiite, and the U.S. pulled its military out of the country a few days ago.
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Craziness galore. One of the worst things this country ever did in its history was allow our government to pour our lives and money into that crazy sieve.
Did we learn from it? It would not appear so.
Query: After ten years and a trillion dollars and thousands of Americans dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqies dead, will the gov't last more than two weeks before civil war erupts?
Odds?
Those victory laps by Obama and Biden look pretty sad a week later.
the WH knew it knew better than the Army about the need for some residual forces.
His Iraq Campaign ad will be under the bus soon
Sounds like the Kurds would make good Cowboys .vs. Arabs movie.
Give them a fair trial and hang'em high!
And quick justice sure has it's place over there for when life has no value, death sometimes has a price.
Wait. I thought Biden said everything was kosher.
Halal!!
he said Halal
Victory laps, Sarge? The SCOAMF couldn't even utter the word when he was flapping his jaw the other day.
In any event, whatever happens in Iraq from this day forward - for eternity - will be Bush's fault. Don't forget that. Bush's fault. BushBushBush.
Not entirely persuasive, I would think.
And now the same people, the same exact people, are the very ones pushing for invading Iran. That they have not been jeered out of the public conversation (at the very least) is an indictment upon us all.
Invade Iran? Fuck, no. Glass it.
"Invade Iran? Fuck, no. Glass it."
Only a blight of skin would think this way.
'And now the same people, the same exact people, are the very ones pushing for invading Iran. That they have not been jeered out of the public conversation (at the very least) is an indictment upon us all.'
And so it goes, and so it goes/and you're the only one who knows...
The man said "fair trial."
Jesus, you people are hard to please,...
eli b wrote: "And so it goes, and so it goes/and you're the only one who knows..."
Funny song quote but, of course, dead wrong.
A lot of people knew then that it was a senseless waste of blood and resources, and even more know it, now. That it would be at least as colossal a waste to go do a war of the same kind, again, is known by more people still.
You, however, may well belong to the contingent that thinks it is all swell. Good for you.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
And now the same people, the same exact people, are the very ones pushing for invading Iran. That they have not been jeered out of the public conversation (at the very least) is an indictment upon us all
Actually strike it’s Air Defense network and its nuclear infrastructure…not invade it OR glass it…but don’t let reality intrude Harrogate….
Let the fratricidal Civil War commence. We have nothing to be ashamed of, Obama said.
A lot of people knew then that it was a senseless waste of blood and resources, and even more know it, now.
On the up side, though, our NCO corpse (as the president would put it) is blooded and experienced.
Well, his place as Jimmy Obama seems to be right on schedule.
Within 10 months, we should have economic implosion in either Europe or Red China and some part of the Middle East will have blown sky high.
harrogate said...
A lot of people knew then that it was a senseless waste of blood and resources, and even more know it, now.
They did?
It was a big propaganda effort to create an us vs them atmosphere in the country and people like harrogate were dumb enough to buy it.
That it would be at least as colossal a waste to go do a war of the same kind, again, is known by more people still.
When the next terror attack comes in this country, let's all remember we could have avoided this, but people like harrogate were more interested in partisan advantage than protecting the country.
And the best thing about condemning the invasion of Iraq is you don't have to acknowledge the worst case senario of not invading. A nuclear armed Hussein, a nuked Israel, war across the middle east and no exported oil. Which, of course would never happen, as Iraq would have remained totally static for the last 10 years or so.
jeff said...
And the best thing about condemning the invasion of Iraq is you don't have to acknowledge the worst case senario of not invading. A nuclear armed Hussein, a nuked Israel, war across the middle east and no exported oil. Which, of course would never happen, as Iraq would have remained totally static for the last 10 years or so
=========================
What we learned from debriefing Saddam Hussein and other top-ranking Iraqis was that they had no plans to build WMD after abandoning them in 1994. But they were planning on recontinuing missile development and were planning on strong diplomacy to join with others in stopping an IRANIAN nuke program.
George Bush and the neocons created one god-awful mess in Iraq.
This confirms my longstanding opinion that even given the opportunity to build a stable, prosperous society, that region will piss it all away to settle sectarian feuds.
This confirms my longstanding opinion that even given the opportunity to build a stable, prosperous society, that region will piss it all away to settle sectarian feuds.
My longstanding opinion (since 1966) is that Gaia only has so much kuumba per square mile and that people have been living in those areas for so long, it's used up.
Perfectly plausible, no?
edutcher wrote:
"When the next terror attack comes in this country, let's all remember we could have avoided this, but people like harrogate were more interested in partisan advantage than protecting the country."
Hey edutcher. There is no way to guarantee against a terror attack on this country. It is specious for you to suggest that initiating yet another wasteful, unwinnable war is the golden "way we could have avoided this."
It is specious for you to suggest that initiating yet another wasteful, unwinnable war is the golden "way we could have avoided this."
It was completely winnable and we had the hardware and manpower to do so. We chose a different route, however.
"... It was completely winnable and we had the hardware and manpower to do so. We chose a different route, however..."
I don't think we are in the business of winning wars anymore.
I think it's fair to say that Saddam was a bigger loser than we were in the war.....I used to think that Saddam was the worst possible, and that it would be pretty difficult for the Iraqis to do worse than him. However, records are meant to be broken.....It justs seems that in that part of the world the natural evolution of affairs is to go from bad to worse. I don't think it's Bush or Obama. It's Them. Perhaps if they can form a government that can restrict the shameless immodesty of their women and be more militant in their hatred of Israel, peace and prosperity can be achieved.
harrogate said...
"When the next terror attack comes in this country, let's all remember we could have avoided this, but people like harrogate were more interested in partisan advantage than protecting the country."
Hey edutcher. There is no way to guarantee against a terror attack on this country. It is specious for you to suggest that initiating yet another wasteful, unwinnable war is the golden "way we could have avoided this."
Baloney.
There hasn't been a successful attack on this country since 9/11 because we've kept the bad guys on the run. That's success and we won the campaign in Iraq, even the Demos had to concede that - no thanks to people like harrogate who want to see us lose for a little partisan advantage.
And I love the "wasteful" thing. That money could have been so much better spent on Stimulus III and ZeroCare.
Right?
It's not a waste if it's spent on the Welfare State.
Right?
"It was completely winnable and we had the hardware and manpower to do so."
That there remains such blind true belief, even now, is funnier than it is sad, I suppose, if looked at with a little ironic distance.
First of all, define win. I'll be generous and presume you are defining it as winding up with Iraq as a stable, republican government in the heart of the Middle East. Is that it in a nutshell? Because yeah, that was a *totally* realistic goal. And btw, at what point would we have said, ahhhh, there it is, they're the society we dreamed they'd be? What would the markers be? Because history abounds with examples of republican government imposed from without, in that region (or anywhere else or that matter).
(And even this discussions presumes temporarily shelving the fact that the invasion was propaganzied and waged under false pretenses anyway)
First of all, define win. I'll be generous and presume you are defining it as winding up with Iraq as a stable, republican government in the heart of the Middle East.
Not at all. You completely misunderstand my point.
Well, I said I was being generous. Not a surprise I misunderstood you, given that's where I was coming from, after all. So please, define win. Surely someone so sure it was so "completelt winnable" can define win for us rubes?
"... There hasn't been a successful attack on this country since 9/11 because we've kept the bad guys on the run..."
To some extent yes but I think luck plays a bigger factor. It's not if but when where some country is going to lose a city. The fact that a basket case regime like North Korea can build nukes means that anyone can. Eventually one will be 'lost' and find its way to Dc or Tel Aviv or Paris. It will happen because no one will do anything to prevent proliferation.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Well, I said I was being generous. Not a surprise I misunderstood you, given that's where I was coming from, after all. So please, define win. Surely someone so sure it was so "completelt winnable" can define win for us rubes
Gee Harrogate how was Maliki selected? Oh that’s right ELECTIONS….was there a green Revolution shot down in the streets, like in Tehran..No. Was there a rebellion in which the troops have killed HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of unarmed protestors, a la Damascus…No. Gee, looks like Iraq IS different than before Hussein, and different from its neighbors…I WONDER what could have produced such a result? No, you’re right no victory here…only failure.
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
The story to which this thread links is borne of Maliki's attempts to arrest and ultimately execute the VP of the country.
Christ on a fucking crumb heap.
If we'd lost here in Vietnam...I think it might have driven us crazy. You know, as a country."
Name that quote for $1000. No Googling, Yahooing, or otherwise using the web to cheat.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
The story to which this thread links is borne of Maliki's attempts to arrest and ultimately execute the VP of the country.
Christ on a fucking crumb heap
REALLY, I didn’t know that…well is he SHOT yet? Has the Civil War broken out, yet? Has Iraq FAILED, yet? Is that in the story, too? I must have missed those paragraphs….Chr!st in very deed……BTW, some of the last was SARCASM…just a hint. Funny you were talking about a story about Maliki, but indicting the whole effort, I must have missed the part in the story where that is pointed out? Or can only YOU draw larger conclusions? Anyway, get back to me on the source of Maliki’s power as compared to Achmadinajad’s (sp.) or Bashir Assad’s…..
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Id comment but Altcommie would just delete it.
Borat left a comment!
I'm sort of glad Hitchens didn't live to see the betrayal (again) of his beloved Kurds.
The Iraq war had about the same number of causalities as the Philippine insurrection. We had to stay there another 50 years to get them almost straightened out, and it's still not straight yet. However, during US governance, millions of Filipinos grew up and lived in more freedom and prosperity than they ever had before or ever will again.
The thinking Iraqis will wish we were back soon enough.
One man's fair trial is another man's...
Why didn't we just give Iraq a fair trial 10 years ago?
We could have saved ourselves a lot of trouble.
We could save ourselves a lot more trouble if we decided it wasn't our job to police the world.
We could save ourselves a lot more trouble if we decided it wasn't our job to police the world.
Granted, but History Channel's "Firefight" needs drama to re-create poorly and with tons of superfluous CG graphics.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
We could save ourselves a lot more trouble if we decided it wasn't our job to police the world
Agreed, after all who cares who controls 50% of the world’s proven crude? I say, “America come home”-ride a mule if you have to.
Give them a fair trial and hang'em high!
That's the deal our own Attorney General promised for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
It's a better deal than Holder gives the Border Patrol agents working under him. For those guys, you go straight to the execution at the hands of Mexican drug gangs using weapons supplied by Holder's DoJ.
Cedarford: Ain't post-regime hindsight fucking brilliant?
Too bad nobody - but nobody - knew that outside of Iraq in 2000 and later.
Sure, you conveniently forget that Hussein was practicing brinksmanship to make his Iranian enemies (and along the way the entire intelligence community of the entire god-damn world) THINK that he had WMD programs, as a deterrent.
But that doesn't matter because ICKY BAD NEOCONS.
(Which reminds me, you also conveniently ignore the way "Regime Change In Iraq is US Policy" was set up... by that President Before Bush.
What was his name again? He was a "neocon", right, I'm guessing?
And his Secretary of State? I can't recall her name, either... she was a neocon too, I assume? In 1998 (PDF)?
Don't try and impress people who were paying attention with how clever you are about this.
It won't work. Because you're not clever or insightful, or most importantly, right.
Sigvald,
Oy. You must be a jooooooo to.
Tank said...
Query: After ten years and a trillion dollars and thousands of Americans dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqies dead, will the gov't last more than two weeks before civil war erupts?
Odds?
It was a lot cheaper than stimulus 1 and 2.
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