Althouse: The key to victory in 2012 for Obama...

२७ डिसेंबर, २०११

The key to victory in 2012 for Obama...

... the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel.

८३ टिप्पण्या:

edutcher म्हणाले...: Supposedly, the Euros are facing an epidemic of downgrades, so Angie (or Geli, if you prefer) may not be able to do that much.

There's also the fact that things are looking worse and worse in Red China - ya know, the economy of the 21st Century. The much-feared and forecast Hard Landing (translation: crash) is looking more and more like when, not if.

Then there are the imponderables - the Occupation launching guerilla warfare in the streets, a big terror attack inside the country due in no small part to Smart Diplomacy, etc.

Few SCOAMFs running for re-election have been hostage to so many externals as GodZero.

PS Only first para visible at the link.; २७/१२/११, ११:०० AM
shiloh म्हणाले...: Wrong premise as article says Merkel holds "a key" not The key. This of course presumes Merkel holds any key, let alone the key.

take care; २७/१२/११, ११:०१ AM
Tim म्हणाले...: Pay wall, couldn't read the entire article.

Besides which, the headline reads "For Obama, Merkel Holds a Key."

I suppose, for government work, a Key = the Key.

Good to know.

Anyway, EVERONE knows the Key to Obama's reelection is, can he count on his voters being too dumb to learn from experience?

I'm betting "Yes, he CAN count on his voters being too dumb to learn from experience."

I desperately hope I'm wrong.; २७/१२/११, ११:०४ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: My brother is stationed in Germany, married to an East German. They say the scuttlebutt is a desire to go back to the Duetsche Mark because of a growing resentment at the PIGS.; २७/१२/११, ११:०४ AM
Paddy O म्हणाले...: If we just found the right rhetoric, this economy would be popping again!

Europe has all the keys to the economic frustrations and issues most Americans are dealing with. If only they lowered gas prices, built more factories and provided more jobs over here! We're so Euro-Dependent!

Maybe Obama should send a letter explaining our situation to both Merkel and King George III, so they can make the necessary changes!; २७/१२/११, ११:०७ AM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: From the article: "The biggest obstacle to economic growth right now is Europe's crisis."

Ha ha ha.

Stopped reading right there. The first premise is so wrong as to disqualify it from serious consideration.

I trudge on.
"Unemployment has dropped below 9%, to 8.6% ...well, if you don't count all the people actually, you know, unemployed.

"Which isn't bad if you're a president trying to coax the economy out of a deep hole."
Because what the economy needs is 'coaxing'. Riiiight. It's just scared, you see; might see its own shadow or sumpin'.

"But the bigger part is concern Europe's woes are going to limit global economic activity, putting a drag on U.S. growth during the election season."
No concern that the EU has a boatload invested in a sagging American economy, then? No concern that we tripled our money supply and our debt in 3 short years? Because that can't affect Europe, right?

"American officials think three steps are needed for Europe to pull out of its ditch: construction of a bigger "firewall," consisting of a trillion-dollar rescue fund"
You mean printing more fake money? yeah, it'll work as well as our "stimuli" did.; २७/१२/११, ११:०७ AM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: He's the Coaxer-in-Chief.; २७/१२/११, ११:११ AM
I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...: Heh- a firewall made of money. That will work.; २७/१२/११, ११:११ AM
Wince म्हणाले...: Quick, somebody tell Obama Frau Merkel enjoys a good shoulder rub.; २७/१२/११, ११:१८ AM
mccullough म्हणाले...: With Europe and China in economic turmoil, the U.S. has the most to gain.; २७/१२/११, ११:१८ AM
MayBee म्हणाले...: I remember when the reason the US was struggling was because we didn't have universal health care.
Anybody else remember that? It was in the early days of the Obama administration. Maybe it was even during the President Elect Barack Obama administration.; २७/१२/११, ११:२१ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: With Europe and China in economic turmoil, the U.S. has the most to gain.

I don't know why, but this made me think of the recent petroleum finds near the Falkland Islands and GB's strong stance toward Argentina over the matter.; २७/१२/११, ११:२२ AM
shiloh म्हणाले...: "I desperately hope I'm wrong."

It's good to have hope. :D; २७/१२/११, ११:३२ AM
I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...: The Coaxer-in-Chief has never even led a little league team let alone a country.; २७/१२/११, ११:३३ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The EU is screwed, and so are we. It's a matter of when, not if. Germany will be the first to bail right after France gets her well deserved credit downgrade, then it will all unravel and our long awaited world double dip will occur just about election time.

Happy New Year!; २७/१२/११, ११:३८ AM
Ann Althouse म्हणाले...: As for "a" or "the" key... I didn't put it in quotes, but I made the switch based on the whole text of the article.; २७/१२/११, ११:३८ AM
Ann Althouse म्हणाले...: It's commentary.

I always add value... Often unobtrusively.; २७/१२/११, ११:३९ AM
shiloh म्हणाले...: Althouse makes a feeble attempt at rationalization re: a key/the key.

take care; २७/१२/११, ११:४६ AM
gerry म्हणाले...: The Chinese can't pay themselves back. They can't buy European debt either.

And so also goes the silly high-speed Chinese rail system...down the drain.

Doom. Doom. And with it, Obama's political demise.

A silver lining of sorts.; २७/१२/११, ११:४९ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: The Key is an excellent short story by Isaac Asimov.

Obama resembles one of the characters in the story, but I'll not say which one.; २७/१२/११, ११:५५ AM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: The key to defeating Obama is being committed to repealing RomneyCare. I mean ObamaCare! I keep getting those two mixed up. They're almost identical!; २७/१२/११, ११:५८ AM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: Is this how Axelrod plans to spin Obama's defeat?

Hey, it wasn't our fault, it was Merkel's boner.

wv proliz The thread cops who crack down on prolix commenters.; २७/१२/११, ११:५८ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: The key to defeating Obama is being committed to repealing RomneyCare. I mean ObamaCare! I keep getting those two mixed up. They're almost identical!

Garage seems to enjoy dancing on my HSA's grave.; २७/१२/११, १२:०० PM
shiloh म्हणाले...: From Merkel to Obamacare. Is this what Althouse/Meade refer to as threadjacking. ;)

btw, Germany has a universal multi-payer system with two main types of health insurance. Germans are offered three mandatory health benefits, which are co-financed by employer and employee: health insurance, accident insurance, and long-term care insurance.

carry on; २७/१२/११, १२:०७ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Scott
You might want to start blaming the Mastermind of RomneyCare, I mean ObamaCare. I remember not too long ago conservatives were going to take up arms over RomneyCare, I mean ObamaCare. Remember when Meade went all they way to D.C. for the big "Stop ObamaCare Rally"? Now it seems like they've all gone real mushy on us. Or maybe it was all bluster?; २७/१२/११, १२:०९ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: You can be glib all you wish, Garage, and I don't really care who it originated with, but my costs have already gone up significantly.; २७/१२/११, १२:१२ PM
Tyrone Slothrop म्हणाले...: garage mahal said...

The key to defeating Obama is being committed to repealing RomneyCare. I mean ObamaCare! I keep getting those two mixed up. They're almost identical!

garage, is there some fundamental flaw in your character that makes it impossible to stay on topic?

wv: foicke-- garage is doing his best to foicke up another thread.; २७/१२/११, १२:२३ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: @garage--Is your comment a reference to the massive enthusiasm for Romney among Tea Partiers?; २७/१२/११, १२:२४ PM
Tank म्हणाले...: MadisonMan said...

The Key is an excellent short story by Isaac Asimov.

I started a short story by L. Block yesterday - on page 3 someone went out "a" 17th floor window.

There's gonna be a lot of this soon no matter what Merkel does.

Old Dad said...

The EU is screwed, and so are we. It's a matter of when, not if. Germany will be the first to bail right after France gets her well deserved credit downgrade, then it will all unravel and our long awaited world double dip will occur just about election time.

Si senor. But it won't really be a double dip. There never was any recovery, just re-inflation of the economy - borrow, borrow, borrow - as if we can do that forever.

DEAD COUNTRY WALKING.; २७/१२/११, १२:२६ PM
ricpic म्हणाले...: It's a race between the Fed and the European Central Bank as to which has the bigger helicopter (to throw money out of).; २७/१२/११, १२:२९ PM
ricpic म्हणाले...: It's up to the American taxpayer to save Europe!!!; २७/१२/११, १२:३० PM
Automatic_Wing म्हणाले...: Is the article saying that Merkel has to "save the Euro" for Obama to be reelected? Cause l don't think the Euro is savable, by Merkel or anyone else.; २७/१२/११, १२:३२ PM
Peter म्हणाले...: Why not try, "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."; २७/१२/११, १२:३६ PM
ricpic म्हणाले...: Ben Bernanke: "Think not of the money you can save to help your American child; think of the money you can spend (well, I can spend in your name) to save a Frog child, a Spic child or a Wop child, you selfish Yankee bastard!"; २७/१२/११, १२:३७ PM
I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...: After we save Europe, who will save us?; २७/१२/११, १२:३९ PM
pm317 म्हणाले...: garage mahal said...

Scott
You might want to start blaming the Mastermind of RomneyCare, I mean ObamaCare. I remember not too long ago conservatives were going to take up arms over RomneyCare, I mean ObamaCare.
--------------

So who will you vote for? You know, 'fool me once shame on you..'; २७/१२/११, १:२० PM
Known Unknown म्हणाले...: btw, Germany has a universal multi-payer system with two main types of health insurance. Germans are offered three mandatory health benefits, which are co-financed by employer and employee: health insurance, accident insurance, and long-term care insurance.

This is anecdotal, but in August I was working with a German fellow from Cologne, who expects the German health system to blow up within the next 2 years. He says it's unsustainable.; २७/१२/११, १:३४ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: This is anecdotal, but in August I was working with a German fellow from Cologne, who expects the German health system to blow up within the next 2 years. He says it's unsustainable.

Ditto my brother's German father-in-law.; २७/१२/११, १:३६ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The key to defeating Obama is being committed to repealing RomneyCare. I mean ObamaCare! I keep getting those two mixed up. They're almost identical!

Let me help you out then, Garage. The difference is this: Obamacare is already failing, but Romneycare is already failing more.; २७/१२/११, १:३८ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Let me help you out then, Garage. The difference is this: Obamacare is already failing, but Romneycare is already failing more.

So we're left with choosing between the lesser of two Hitlers. Nice.; २७/१२/११, १:४७ PM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: It's called liberal fascism, Godwin, er, Garage.

I think there's a book on the topic.; २७/१२/११, २:०१ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: So we're left with choosing between the lesser of two Hitlers. Nice.

Well, no. Think of it this way - Romney was the smart kid in class who despite hard work and studying failed on this test. Obama was the stupid kid in class who blew off class and studying for golf and decided to copy the smart kid’s answers the one time he failed.

And why is Hitler always on your mind? I guess Sylvia Plath was right.; २७/१२/११, २:०५ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Garage,

You've got your Hitlers all mixed up. Hitler's crazy little cousin is running Iran. Obama is not Hitler, but he would bow to him. Romney is more like GHWB, but without the war hero creds.; २७/१२/११, २:०७ PM
shiloh म्हणाले...: hmm, from Merkel to Hitler ~ almost on topic ...; २७/१२/११, २:१० PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: I thought ObamaKKKare made Obama Hitler/Mao/Lenin/Chavez. Romney is the Mastermind behind ObamaKKKare. You can understand my confusion why Republicans would nominate, of all people, another Hitler/Mao/Lenin/Chavez.; २७/१२/११, २:१५ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I thought ObamaKKKare made Obama Hitler/Mao/Lenin/Chavez. Romney is the Mastermind behind ObamaKKKare. You can understand my confusion why Republicans would nominate, of all people, another Hitler/Mao/Lenin/Chavez.

Fillings picking up signals again, Garage?; २७/१२/११, २:१७ PM
Tim म्हणाले...: America's Dairy Cow said...

"So we're left with choosing between the lesser of two Hitlers. Nice."

Curious statement, especially in light of the fact we all know, by the dairy cow's own admitted standard, that it will vote for the greater of the two Hitlers.

No brains, no shame.

Eat Mor Chikin.; २७/१२/११, २:२१ PM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: Yeah Garage, that post was 2 parts bag lady to one part J.; २७/१२/११, २:२१ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Curious statement, especially in light of the fact we all know, by the dairy cow's own admitted standard, that it will vote for the greater of the two Hitlers.

Looking to be Hitler vs Hitler. Are you voting third party then? Write in?; २७/१२/११, २:२५ PM
jeff म्हणाले...: "The key to defeating Obama is being committed to repealing RomneyCare. I mean ObamaCare! I keep getting those two mixed up. They're almost identical!"

Maybe I can help. RomneyCare didnt and does not effect me when I lived in Ohio, Nebraska, Kansas, Arkansas or Colorado. What the Mass voter decides for Mass isnt any of my business, unless I decide to move to that state. ObamaCare on the other hand, screws me no matter where I live, despite having the entire opposing party vote against it. Really, you would have to be pretty slow not to figure out the difference.; २७/१२/११, २:२९ PM
bbkingfish म्हणाले...: All the current Republican victory fantasies seem to involve some level of as-yet vaporous cataclysm to change the direction of public opinion. This week, it's a European meltdown sparking an instant worldwide depression.

You don't hear much about the Tea Party anymore, even on Fox News, Nat. Review, and the WSJ. It took Republicans less than a year to trash their 2010 re-branding effort.

RCPs average of published polls for December shows Obama with an average 47 percent job approval. His personal approval never has dropped below the mid-50s. And Republicans seem set on running a guy who's not that popular, even in his own party.

Maybe that's why the Murdoch organs are reduced to spinning yarns that would be better written by Ray Bradbury, or maybe Cormac McCarthy.

They want to win. And for that, need something really, really bad to happen. Something that would be really, really bad for the rest of us, and the country as a whole.; २७/१२/११, २:५२ PM
Toad Trend म्हणाले...: You can argue until the stupid cows come home about the similarities/differences between Romney's state construct meant to deal with health care and the unilateral democrat 'offering', not at all a health care solution but a wealth transfer and federal power grab not seen in this nation's history.

Carry on.; २७/१२/११, ३:०२ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: They want to win. And for that, need something really, really bad to happen. Something that would be really, really bad for the rest of us, and the country as a whole.

Indeed. It would probably take an economic disaster on the order of >8% unemployment four years into an anemic "recovery" featuring a U-6 unemployment rate nearly double its long-run average level and gdp growth that barely touches 2%.

What are the odds of a disaster like that?; २७/१२/११, ३:०२ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: You don't hear much about the Tea Party anymore, even on Fox News, Nat. Review, and the WSJ. It took Republicans less than a year to trash their 2010 re-branding effort.

Apparently not being front-page, above-the-fold news is = trashing. The Tea Party will be very active come the time appropriate for it, ie, from roughly the conventions onward to Nov 4th. Most Tea Partiers have full time jobs and can't go full metal ACORN 24-7-365. Something that arises when needed and then recedes into the background hash is very much keeping in line with the TP mentality. Very unlike the left and it's "War On De Jour" mindset.

They want to win. And for that, need something really, really bad to happen. Something that would be really, really bad for the rest of us, and the country as a whole.

Either bb hasn't been keeping up with current events or he's so insular he believes everything is just hunkydorry.; २७/१२/११, ३:०९ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: What the Mass voter decides for Mass isnt any of my business, unless I decide to move to that state.

Whatever you say Chief. Romney, however, signed the government run healthcare/death panel/worse than Al Qaeda debacle, first.; २७/१२/११, ३:१३ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Whatever you say Chief. Romney, however, signed the government run healthcare/death panel/worse than Al Qaeda debacle, first.

Obama 2012. Just like Romney, but with none of the economic literacy!; २७/१२/११, ३:२० PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Obama 2012. Just like Romney, but with none of the economic literacy!

Isn't RomneyCare "economic illiteracy" though? Especially if it's your brainchild?

Starting to get a sense that the threat of taking up arms against the government over ObamaCare was a little overblown.; २७/१२/११, ३:२८ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: @garage--The statute implementing "Romneycare" is 55 pages long. The PPACA is over 2,000 pages long.

Think they're really exactly the same?; २७/१२/११, ३:३० PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Isn't RomneyCare "economic illiteracy" though? Especially if it's your brainchild?

Is it your brainchild if the veto-proof majority legislature of the opposition party "massages" it beyond recognition?

I suspect if we'd had a Republican House and Senate we'd all be just fine with the Obamacare we ended up with. It's like you guys are Midas, only everything you touch turns to...not gold.; २७/१२/११, ३:३६ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: @Chip
Here is one of the persons that help create RomneyCare - MIT Professor Jonathan Gruber:

“The problem is there is no way to say that,” Gruber said. “Because they’re the same fucking bill. He just can’t have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it’s the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he’s just lying.”; २७/१२/११, ३:४० PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Basically, you know, it’s the same bill.

Ah, yes. John "Basically" Gruber. Professor of F***ing Economics at MIT, where 55=2000. I should tell you that, basically, "basically" is a weasel word not typically employed in the field of economic analysis unless the interlocutor is basically discredited. I'm guessing that basically, you know, there's a whole field of caveats hiding in that basically, you know?; २७/१२/११, ३:४७ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Basically, you know, it’s the same bill.

Given the huge difference purely in the page count Chip pointed out, please back up this statement. I know it's someone's quote, Garage, but you posted it, so you must know what he means. I have a hard time believing that it's simply due to font choice and line spacing.; २७/१२/११, ३:४९ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: More John "Basically" Gruber:

"The only big difference is he didn't have to pay for his. Because the federal government paid for it. Where at the federal level, we have to pay for it, so we have to raise taxes."

Well, then. Only one big difference.

You'd think a smart guy like John "Basically" Gruber would realize when even he's basically, you know, acknowledged that it might f***ing "work" at the state level, but not f***ing "work" at the federal level, because of that one basic difference.; २७/१२/११, ३:५१ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Given the huge difference purely in the page count Chip pointed out, please back up this statement.

I guess the 1945 extra pages in the federal bill are all those taxes John"Basically" Gruber recommended raising to foot the bill.; २७/१२/११, ३:५४ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: So RomneyCare wasn't paid for, and ObamaCare is. Interesting!; २७/१२/११, ३:५६ PM
shiloh म्हणाले...: On the plus side, at least "we're" still not talkin' about Althouse's Merkel nonsense which started this thread.; २७/१२/११, ३:५८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: So RomneyCare wasn't paid for, and ObamaCare is. Interesting!

Uh, Garage? The national debt was riding in a Toyota Corolla at an unsafe 90 mph before 2008, but Obama put it in a plush new Bugatti Veyron courteously paid for by my great-grandchildren and dropped a brick on the throttle.

PPACA is not "paid for."

Basically.; २७/१२/११, ४:०२ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: PPACA is not "paid for."

So which is it: thousands of pages of taxes to pay for it, or it's not paid for?

The CBO disagrees with you by the way whether ObamaCare is fully paid for. In fact, it says it will reduce deficits, and repealing it would add 145 billion to the deficit between 2012-2019.; २७/१२/११, ४:१२ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: So which is it: thousands of pages of taxes to pay for it, or it's not paid for?

The CBO disagrees with you by the way whether ObamaCare is fully paid for. In fact, it says it will reduce deficits, and repealing it would add 145 billion to the deficit between 2012-2019.

So...what? Have you given up on your laughable point that Romneycare and Obamacare are exactly the same thing?; २७/१२/११, ४:१६ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Have you given up on your laughable point that Romneycare and Obamacare are exactly the same thing?

I don't think even Romney is disputing that.; २७/१२/११, ४:२० PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Ask Garage for a direct answer and he obfuscates. SOP for GM.

He posted

“The problem is there is no way to say that,” Gruber said. “Because they’re the same fucking bill. He just can’t have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it’s the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he’s just lying.”

In response to Chip asking him how Romneycare and Obamacare were exactly the same.; २७/१२/११, ४:२५ PM
Toad Trend म्हणाले...: I believe it was Gerald Seib that has asserted that Merkel is 'a' key.

Along with winning enough electoral votes in the general.

Teh Won won't dare mention the laughingly-described 'health care' bill during the runup to the election - because the polling data the dem operatives are getting back on the surprise legislation (it was a surprise to most of those that voted to pass it!) is the equivalent of kryptonite.; २७/१२/११, ४:२८ PM
bbkingfish म्हणाले...: Yer killin' me, ScottM.

Romney won't let anyone from the Tea Party stand close enough to be in the same picture with him.

The Republicans would control the Senate today, if the Tea Party geniuses hadn't run lunatics in Nevada, Delaware, and Alaska.

The Tea Party is dead.

Its burial was conducted last week, in public, in Washington, D.C., when the Republican leadership caved to the President on the Payroll Tax whatchamacallit, and then knelt before Obama and let him put his foot on Mitch McConnell's neck for the photo op. You soon will see this tableaux replayed around the theme of the debt limit extension.

Why are the Republicans all of a sudden so cooperative with Obama, Scott?

It's because they've decided that Obama's re-election is the price they have to pay for their own re-election.

No, Scott. Very Important Republicans are not going to be taking any Tea Party calls until 2013 at the earliest. I'm sure they will have no trouble letting you and your friends continue to get together for cookies and punch, though.; २७/१२/११, ४:४० PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The CBO disagrees with you by the way whether ObamaCare is fully paid for. In fact, it says it will reduce deficits, and repealing it would add 145 billion to the deficit between 2012-2019.

Oh, Garage. I'm so sorry for you. That old lie died early in 2011, when the cost deferrals were laid bare. Are you still clinging to it? Perhaps you should find another, less discredited binky.; २७/१२/११, ५:२० PM
ricpic म्हणाले...: What bbkingfish doesn't get is that if the Republican Party gives the TEA Party the middle finger this time around the Republican Party will go the way of the Whigs.; २७/१२/११, ५:२७ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: That old lie died early in 2011, when the cost deferrals were laid bare. Are you still clinging to it?

Show it to us. Bonus points if you can do so without linking to a right wing blog.; २७/१२/११, ५:४६ PM
bbkingfish म्हणाले...: The Republicans already have given the TEA Party the finger.

In all these debates, how often has any candidate mentioned the Tea Party? Even the real yahoos, like Bachmann or Santorum? They won't even breathe the word, unless they absolutely have to in response to a direct question.

Nope. The T.P. is dead alright. Not that anyone will stop them from wearing tri-cornered hats, or dressing up like Uncle Sam, or calling themselves patriots.

It's just that there are no TEA Party representatives in Congress anymore. They all became incumbents last week when they joined up with Obama and O'Connell.

Republicans outside the Beltway havn't caught on yet because they were too busy celebrating Christmas last week.; २७/१२/११, ५:५४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Quoth Garage:
So we're left with choosing between the lesser of two Hitlers. Nice.

I don't know about you, Garage, but I'm planning on writing in Cthulhu. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.; २७/१२/११, ६:०० PM
dbp म्हणाले...: Even by GM's own "logic", he should vote for Romney:

He was there first on universal healthcare, Obama basically copied him.

This ignores all the real differences between the two healthcare laws but that doesn't matter since to GM these differences do not exist.; २७/१२/११, ६:२९ PM
Tim म्हणाले...: America's Dairy Cow said...

"Whatever you say Chief. Romney, however, signed the government run healthcare/death panel/worse than Al Qaeda debacle, first."

There is an important lie here.

It is that Medicare, run by the federal government, is the nation's largest payer of health care services in the United States.

The "death panels" apply only to the Medicare program - not privately provided, commercial insurance or health plans.

"RomneyCare" has no "death panels."

It cannot.

"RomneyCare" does nothing to Medicare in Massachusetts (or anywhere else).

It cannot.

The Massachusetts Legislature, no matter how much (or how little) they may have wanted to touch Medicare, simply could not.

"The problem is there is no way to say that,” Gruber said. “Because they’re the same fucking bill. He just can’t have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it’s the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he’s just lying."

Here is another lie, by Jonathan Gruber (a political hack with fancy-pants degrees and seat at a fancy-pants faculty).

It isn't the "same" bill.

"RomneyCare" does nothing with pharmaceuticals or Medicare Part D; it does nothing with Medicare (as noted above); it does nothing with "Accountable Care Organizations (aka, ACO's); it does nothing with increasing income eligibility for Medicaid; there are multiple other examples, but suffice to say that ObamaCare = RomneyCare is just not true.

That said, Romney made a critical error in judgment in promoting and signing the health care reform act in Massachusetts - it is my strongest complaint against him.; २७/१२/११, ७:२४ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: Damn. The call of real life caused me to miss out on a lot of fun in this thread.

Anyway, I agree entirely with everyone who dismissed Gruber as a hack. I think he's just way too personally invested in "his" HCR legacy to be fully honest. A list of crap that's in O-care that's not in R-care would be long and informative, I believe.; २७/१२/११, ९:२६ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: You don't suppose, bb, in your infinite wisdom, that the candidates would ever attend a Tea Party-hosted forum do you? Surely by your line of reasoning, they would not.; २७/१२/११, ९:५८ PM
Palladian म्हणाले...: "I do the cooking...

Und I make the bed.

I go out daily
To earn our daily bread.
But we've one thing in common,

He...

She...

Und me...

Zee key...

(Beedle dee, dee)

Zee key...

(Beedle dee, dee)

Zee key...."; २७/१२/११, १०:४२ PM