Althouse: "'Baby It's Cold Outside' is known as the Christmas Date Rape Song."

६ डिसेंबर, २०११

"'Baby It's Cold Outside' is known as the Christmas Date Rape Song."

"Bitch Magazine wonders: does She & Him's gender-reversed version make it less creepy and less rape-y? Meanwhile, Persephone Magazine's 'Listening While Feminist' has an alternative take on the holiday classic."

६६ टिप्पण्या:

John Burgess म्हणाले...: Boy! (or should I say, 'Girl!')

Somebody has surely lost their grip.

How can you tell it came from a liberal?

1. Absolutely no sense of humor.
2. Infantilizes the female by claiming that, even with a drink or two, she cannot make her own choices in life.

WV: precol - Yes, very much pre-cool; ६/१२/११, १०:०० PM
I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...: Reminds me to get the Xmas CD's out. I have a version of this song done by Ann Margret and Al Hirt.; ६/१२/११, १०:०५ PM
Mark O म्हणाले...: I only read "Bitch" for the letters to the editor.

These are not serious people. They deserve our intense ridicule.; ६/१२/११, १०:१० PM
madAsHell म्हणाले...: The fem-nazi's can't get laid so they call it rape.; ६/१२/११, १०:११ PM
Mundane68 म्हणाले...: Forty something year old man, and I still am amazed at my absolute power.

Apparently I posses the ability to rape a woman WITH MY MIND just by playing this song. And I didn't even need the Three Wolf Shirt!

Yes, my Y-chromosome is MAGIC!; ६/१२/११, १०:२० PM
rcocean म्हणाले...: "My brother will be there at the door - Waves upon a tropical shore
My maiden aunt's mind is vicious - Gosh your lips look delicious"

Date rape or no, lets give the songwriter some credit for those lyrics.; ६/१२/११, १०:२० PM
Matt म्हणाले...: I'm guessing I'm the polar opposite of Bitch Magazine's target demo and I've always hated that song. That one and "Santa Baby."; ६/१२/११, १०:२५ PM
rcocean म्हणाले...: Repeating "Its cold outside" = date rape.

Yep, its 2011.; ६/१२/११, १०:२६ PM
I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...: Matt - try picturing Ann Margret singing it and have a drink on a snowy winter night.; ६/१२/११, १०:२८ PM
Synova म्हणाले...: I don't like the song (or Santa Baby) but some people need to get a life. Really they do.

You know... sometimes I think of all I could have accomplished if I'd done something useful during those hours I played EQ or other online games... full time looking for ways to be oppressed is just as useless and no where near as fun.

So I think I probably made good choices and should keep that in mind.; ६/१२/११, १०:३० PM
Automatic_Wing म्हणाले...: I've never cared for Bitch Magazine - it's too white and lacks that vibrant diversity that we all love so much.

For me, it's Beeeyotch Magazine or nothing.; ६/१२/११, १०:३२ PM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: I love Santa Baby. Eartha Kitt owns it.

Bitch Magazine is aptly named.; ६/१२/११, १०:४२ PM
rcocean म्हणाले...: I like "Santa baby" but only when sung by Eartha Kitt. Somehow she makes it all OK - otherwise its a financial rape song.; ६/१२/११, १०:४३ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: There are people in this world who hate "Santa Baby"??

I'm stunned.; ६/१२/११, १०:४५ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: This is total misinformation:

The tune is "It's Cold Out Here" and it's known as the Christmas Gay Date Song.

But, being liberals, they (and probably Ann) don't want to let the cat out of the bag,...; ६/१२/११, १०:४६ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: Ha!

I just bought that CD this morning.

I buy just about everything Starbucks puts in front of me. For example, I now have six X-mas CDs from them, this season.

It's sad to have so little self control. I know.; ६/१२/११, १०:४८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: "Baby it's Cold Outside" has quite a history of inflaming nutjobs. Watching couples dance to the song at a church social in Greely Colorado drove Sayyid Qutb to a frothy-mouthed puritanical frenzy against America. Mark Steyn mentions it here:

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/article.jsp?content=20060925_133309_133309

Qutb was the main founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, which organization is working mightily to bring freedom democracy to Egypt.; ६/१२/११, १०:४९ PM
Wince म्हणाले...: It's fun to sit by the fire and watch the PC-crowd fight like two scorpions in a bottle arguing whether the song's lyrics are "rapey" or whether the woman is finally breaking free of the family shackles that keep her sexually oppressed.

Rather than testing the lyrics against a "gender-reversed" version, it's clear that if the singers were both lesbians it'd be all hunky-dory.; ६/१२/११, १०:५१ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: It must be awful to go through life as a feminist. I should probably pity them but I can't.; ६/१२/११, १०:५७ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: In today's world, of course, the woman would be asking for a razor rather than a comb.

God damn it.

Peter; ६/१२/११, १०:५८ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: Smart girls offer Santa a landing strip for his sleigh.; ६/१२/११, ११:०१ PM
Beta Rube म्हणाले...: This song was written by Frank Loesser, who wrote the great American Musical " Guys and Dolls". He used to perform it at parties with his wife.

She thought of it as "their song", and was upset when he went commercial with it. Not sure where rape comes in to the discussion. I love the song and admire that Mr. Loesser wrote the music and lyrics for this and his other songs..; ६/१२/११, ११:२७ PM
rcommal म्हणाले...: Agree that this is the obvious companion reference, the only difference being having linked it.; ६/१२/११, ११:३८ PM
rcommal म्हणाले...: Red Skelton and Betty Garret (for example) get all rape-scene on our asses.

(Great Ado Annie + Annie Get Your Gun vibe going on there, no?); ६/१२/११, ११:४२ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Santa doesn't need a landing strip. He's a bush pilot.

Peter; ६/१२/११, ११:४४ PM
rcommal म्हणाले...: There's this, too.; ६/१२/११, ११:४६ PM
Popville म्हणाले...: Hot damn, forget Frank Loesser's lyrics and move up to the insanely great power-pop anthem Baby, It's Cold Outside, courtesy of Chicago's criminally underrated Pezband cira 1977.; ७/१२/११, २:४३ AM
rcommal म्हणाले...: Pezband! Oh.mi.gosh. Thanks for the (until now buried) memory. Long ago I sold my soul for Pez, the price being that I would never have to consume, much less be subjected to [hushed tones:] *Peeps*. At Easter or any other Major Holiday or Event.; ७/१२/११, ३:४३ AM
Mary Beth म्हणाले...: What it would be like if Andrew Marvell wrote song lyrics in the 20th century.

How about a James Taylor and Natalie Cole version?; ७/१२/११, ५:५८ AM
Molly म्हणाले...: Am I the only person who clicked on through to this very thoughtful feminist response?

http://persephonemagazine.com/2010/12/listening-while-feminist-in-defense-of-baby-it%E2%80%99s-cold-outside/; ७/१२/११, ६:०४ AM
Shanna म्हणाले...: I've heard that before. It's dumb.

I love that song. I have a version with Tom Jones that cracks me up.; ७/१२/११, ६:१८ AM
Shanna म्हणाले...: My maiden aunt's mind is vicious

I could never figure this line out! Thanks :); ७/१२/११, ६:२६ AM
TMink म्हणाले...: John, that is a good point. Progressive politics picks out non white males as powerless and witless victims who need special, governmental protection. The poor dears just can't do it for themselves.

Except for those pesky Asians who upset the applecart by being productive.

Trey; ७/१२/११, ७:०८ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Since "Elf" this has become one of my wife's favorite Christmas songs and I've been forced to learn it on the guitar to play along with her piano. For a duet, it's a fun song.

Her other favorite is that Bing Crosby, Hawaiian Christmas song who's title escapes me, but you all know what I'm talking about, I'm sure.

Unfortunately, having grown up in the 80's and been beaten to death in the 90's with the PC ugly stick, the first time I sat down and went over the lyrics while trying to learn the song, the "creepiness" of the words caught my attention. My first thought was, "oh, I bet the idiots have a field day with this one...I wonder how many schools have banned it?"

Any PC thoughts of rape instantly bring to mind Whoopi's "'rape' rape" comment as the perfect illustration of PC bullshit.

Conservatives have our various crosses to bear, especially social conservatives (Blue Laws, anyone?), but nothing compares to political correctness for the abject, Orwellian nonsense and linguistic totalitarianism.; ७/१२/११, ७:११ AM
Tibore म्हणाले...: There's a periodical out there called "Bitch" magazine?? OMG...

Something like that might be interesting if they embraced the concept ironically. But I get the sense that that's not the case here.; ७/१२/११, ७:४८ AM
Christopher in MA म्हणाले...: Scott - "Mele Kalikimaka" is the name of the Crosby / Andrews Sisters song you're thinking of.

"Baby" has never particularly lit my fire, despite the fact that I like Loesser's work. And of course, we (or the idiots at Bitch) might think the song's about getting into the girl's panties - especially with Dino's inimitable leer - but they could just be arguing about getting to second or third base, which is the underlying tone of the Sammy Davis / Carmen McRae version.

"Santa Baby." Ugh. Or, more specifically, ugh Eartha Kitt. Neither her voice nor her looks ever did a thing for me. There's a fairly recent cover of SB by Kellie Pickler that's more upbeat in a Marilyn Monroe "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend" way which I'd encourage you to check out.; ७/१२/११, ७:५९ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: There's a fairly recent cover of SB by Kellie Pickler that's more upbeat in a Marilyn Monroe "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend" way which I'd encourage you to check out.

Frankly, I learn to play Christmas music (or pretty much any holiday music) against my will.; ७/१२/११, ८:०१ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Festivus being the one exception, of course.; ७/१२/११, ८:०२ AM
Shanna म्हणाले...: "Santa Baby."

I don't hate this song, but I had the breathy versions.

There is snow outside this morning! I think I will be breaking out 'Let it Snow' at work today.; ७/१२/११, ८:१५ AM
Shanna म्हणाले...: Hate! Not had. Sorry.; ७/१२/११, ८:१५ AM
Amy Schley म्हणाले...: I always think "Baby It's Cold Outside" as not a date-rape song, but a guilt-you-into-sex song. Being guilted into sex is just as much rape as being guilted into filling Salvation Army buckets is theft. That being said, it's one of the many Christmas songs I despise.

"Santa, Baby" -- who decided the Christmas song canon wasn't complete without a strip tease song?

My favorite Christmas song (as opposed to hymn) is currently "Merry Christmas from the Family." It is so white trash, but proudly so, and a holiday party of drunk people, fractured families, odd-duck boy/girlfriends, and people you always invite because they're family even if you're forgotten how is a lot more like anything I will experience than "a picture print by Courier and Ives."; ७/१२/११, ८:१७ AM
Seeing Red म्हणाले...: It's not Christmas for hubby until Eartha sings "Santa Baby." Buble covered it, too.; ७/१२/११, ८:२४ AM
Bob_R म्हणाले...: It was written in 1936. Given that, it holds up surprisingly well. I can see how a modern listener might get the wrong idea from the "what's in this drink?" line, but the date rape interpretation is clearly an anachronism.; ७/१२/११, ८:२६ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: "Santa, Baby" -- who decided the Christmas song canon wasn't complete without a strip tease song?

Guilty.; ७/१२/११, ८:२६ AM
Patrick म्हणाले...: I love that song. I have a recording of Paul Cebar singing it with his then girlfriend and band mate Robin Leuer (?). It's great.; ७/१२/११, ८:३७ AM
Synova म्हणाले...: "Am I the only person who clicked on through to this very thoughtful feminist response?"

No. I clicked through and read the thing about how it was about defying societal expectations in 1944. It was a good response, true. It doesn't make the tearing waste of time go away, though. No matter I'm glad someone has some sense.

Still, IIRC, it started out with a hat-tip to the notion that it's important to spend all that time paying attention to the subtexts of what is out there, so it didn't reject the obsession, it just claimed that this time someone was wrong.

Better off killing dragons or getting a crafting skill up to max.

Really.; ७/१२/११, ८:३८ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Better off killing dragons or getting a crafting skill up to max.

Skyrim much?; ७/१२/११, ८:४१ AM
Dan in Philly म्हणाले...: Someone a year or so ago did a version of the song with the gender roles reversed. It really didn't work at all.; ७/१२/११, ८:४५ AM
Shanna म्हणाले...: Someone a year or so ago did a version of the song with the gender roles reversed. It really didn't work at all.

Someone did it along time ago (see the above link in this thread).

Glee did it last year with Chris Coffer and Blaine and it didn't work for me, but that's mainly because I don't like Chris's voice and it doesn't fit well with Blaine's.; ७/१२/११, ८:५१ AM
Der Hahn म्हणाले...: IMO pretty much every attempt to make an adult secular Christmas song since Bing did 'White Christmas' winds up as crap by being either too cutesy or too sentimental.

And don't get me started on how people butcher the lyrics to 'Have yourself a merry little Christmas'.

Bah Humbug!; ७/१२/११, ९:०२ AM
Beta Rube म्हणाले...: This song is about a man pleading with a woman. It is appropratre for its time, and to deconstruct it now with idiotic PC sensibilities is pointless and insulting to the art form.

The title of Mozart's opera Cosi fan tutte would not stand up to feminist criticism either.

Maybe these talentless easily offended sorts should compose their own duets and operas, and leave the rest of us alone.; ७/१२/११, ९:०४ AM
Shanna म्हणाले...: And don't get me started on how people butcher the lyrics to 'Have yourself a merry little Christmas'.

I hate every version that uses 'hang a shining star'.

This song is about a man pleading with a woman.

I rather agree with the second feminists interpretation that he is just giving her good excuses to stay and that she really wants to. She's the one who showed up at his place on a cold snowy night and then was all 'i really can't stay'.; ७/१२/११, ९:१३ AM
Skipper म्हणाले...: If you really listen to the song, it's a mutual seduction dance. Besides, it was originally written by Frank Loesser to be sung at parties with his wife.; ७/१२/११, ९:२८ AM
Thorley Winston म्हणाले...: IMO pretty much every attempt to make an adult secular Christmas song since Bing did 'White Christmas' winds up as crap by being either too cutesy or too sentimental.

I’m sort of partial to Mariah Carey’s “All I Want for Christmas is You” mainly because the first time I heard the song was when a fan made a Stargate SG-1 music video out of it.
But I largely agree with you – I’m not particularly religious but this time of year, I definitely prefer the Christian Christmas songs to the secular ones.; ७/१२/११, ९:४५ AM
Thorley Winston म्हणाले...: "Baby it's Cold Outside" has quite a history of inflaming nutjobs. Watching couples dance to the song at a church social in Greely Colorado drove Sayyid Qutb to a frothy-mouthed puritanical frenzy against America. Mark Steyn mentions it here:

I remember when Ann posted a link to that story after Ricardo Montalban passed away.
That being said, is anyone surprised to find that western feminists in an effort to invent something to complain about in the west, find themselves on the same side as those who really do oppress, persecute and abuse women?; ७/१२/११, ९:५४ AM
Tim म्हणाले...: Mental masturbation is all fun and games until someone gets hurt.; ७/१२/११, ९:५५ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Mental masturbation is all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

Or your mind's eye goes blind.; ७/१२/११, ९:५६ AM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: This marked the first time I've heard Zooey Deschanel sing. I think maybe she should stick with light comedy and sit-coms.

When I hear this song I think of my old business unit being entertained by singers from the nearby high school. Watching the young girls try to vamp it up as they sashayed to the song -- and trying to keep from laughing out loud -- made me realize that I'll never be a pedophile.

And that's a good thing, I think.; ७/१२/११, १०:१६ AM
I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...: It was the week Bing Crosby died [around 1978] and my employer had its Xmas bash at the famous Latin Casino in NJ.

Donna Summer & Steve Martin were the headliners and Donna Summer sang the sexiest White Christmas I have ever heard. Steve Martin was in his happy feet phase. It was a great night with two great performers.; ७/१२/११, १०:२० AM
Synova म्हणाले...: "Skyrim much?"

I don't know what that is. :P

Lately I've been Rifting.; ७/१२/११, १०:५९ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Google it. It's all about dragons, crafting, etc, but not online. Your comment seemed tailor-made for it and it just recently came out to record sales, so I assumed...; ७/१२/११, ११:०३ AM
Christopher in MA म्हणाले...: I always like to put together a Christmas playlist for our friends, so here's a few from what I've done this year (I'm nowhere near my ipod, so this isn't everything). Find, enjoy or slam my hopelessly middlebrow tastes, as you prefer:

"Hey, Santa!" - The Brian Setzer Orchestra;
"Good King Wenceslas" - Crash Test Dummies;
"Blue Christmas" - The Mavericks;
"Linus and Lucy" - Bela Fleck and the Flecktones;
"Santa Baby" - Kellie Pickler;
"(Must Have Been Ol') Santa Claus - Harry Connick;
"Christmas Island" - Leon Redbone;
"Cold Miser / Heat Miser" - Dick Shawn, George S. Irving;
"Sleigh Ride" - Ella Fitzgerald;
"Must Be Santa Claus" - Mitch Miller;
"The Light on Christmas" - Will Of Titus;
"Wexford Carol" - Julie Andrews;
"Once In Royal David's City" - Canterbury Cathedral Choir;
"The Christmas Blues" - Dean Martin;
"Not So Merry Christmas" - Raul Malo
"Christmastime Is Here" - Shaun Colvin;
"Mistletoe and Holly" - Frank Sinatra;
"The Christmas Song" - Sammy Davis Jr.;
"Season's Greetings" - Robbers On High Street; ७/१२/११, ११:३४ AM
Sigivald म्हणाले...: That's... stupid.

Why do people pay attention to crap like that?

And why do the people producing it think - as they evidently do - that they're actually being in some way or other insightful?

"Feminism" as the term is used today seems to be greatly effective... at making "feminists" look like complete idiots.

(Is it all a sneaky attack by the Patriarchy to use them as fronts to make women look stupid?); ७/१२/११, १२:३३ PM
Deirdre Mundy म्हणाले...: The Song was originally from "Neptune's Daughter." And it was humorous-- it took place in LA and there was clearly no snow. Plus, it starts out with Montalban and Williams flirting too it, and then switches over to a role reversal where Betty Garrett is trying to keep Red Skelton from leaving.....

So-- there was never a date rape theme, and there was always the 'role reversal'.....; ७/१२/११, १:०१ PM
Deirdre Mundy म्हणाले...: Here's the link to skelton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHYqKEAehPU; ७/१२/११, १:०४ PM
Deirdre Mundy म्हणाले...: And here's montalban and williams:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/ramperto/videos/1/; ७/१२/११, १:०८ PM