"Bud Selig can sing all the praises he wants about the wild card, but for the ninth time in its 17-year history, it has turned September into a numbing succession of meaningless games for the Yankees and Red Sox as they go through the motions of lopping the days off the calendar until the postseason. And this year especially, the wild card has done nothing to boost fan interest as both wild cards and five out of the six division races are virtually sewed up with nearly a month to go."
It's like baseball wants everyone to switch over to football.
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The games aren't meaningless.
They produce tens of millions of dollars in revenue for MLB, the Yankees and the Red Sox.
They are being tenderized for post-season consumption.
Some years the choice to have a wild card team has looked inspired, other years not. Selig is a buffoon and I have numerous bones to pick w/ him..but not this. All of the Yankee/Sox games are numbing in and of themselves. Long, tedious, overmanaged games w/ even true fans like Trooper, falling asleep in their chairs, w/ potato chip crumbs on their Milwaukee tumors, snoring and farting.
I've heard a lot of complaining about the length of the Yankees/Red Sox games, but seldom any explanation of why the games are so long.
Yesterday, I was watching the Cubs vs. Pirates, and Bob Brenly, the Cub's TV announcer explained it. (Brenly managed the Diamonbacks to a World Championship in 2001.)
Both the Yanks and the Sox are loaded with very talented, very patient hitters who almost always take or foul off several pitches before they get down to business. 3-2 counts are the norm.
This wears down the opposing pitcher and sets them up for a beating the second, third and fourth time through the lineup.
I wish the Cubs knew how to do this.
I don't see the issue...good teams in pro football play a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the season, too. It's inherent in having a regular season/playoff format, there's really no way you can avoid it.
Meaningless? Of course, if you are someone who has never played a game and don't care about winning or about your personal effort. Clearly, this is someone who would consider most of all soccer games to be meaningless kicking of the ball.
Meaningless is the NBA.
Not sure what universe ST is in, but you can hardly turn around without seeing the explanation of why Sox/Yanks games are so long. That he had to watch a game featuring the Cubbies and the Pirates to figure it out...wow.
Some years the wild card race is a nail biter. This year it isn't, but there's still a lot of baseball left and a 5 game lead can vanish in a hurry.
And as a bone bred Red Sox fan, it's impossible for me to complain about the wild card and not cause myself physical pain. Look it up.
Selig is a joke, but he'll be gone soon and maybe MLB can get a real leader. And don't get too wound up about football. Goodell is still young and he's like Selig only he doesn't wear dresses in private.
The purpose of most baseball games is to provide the common folk access to $10 hot dogs, something they generally cannot get otherwise.
wv: bedwores. Now I'm confused. Wrong thread?
The Cub pitchers know how to get to 3-2 counts even against horseshit hitters. Mark Cuban would maybe have been the owner to finally turn your loser franchise around. With this new clown owner.. hold on, it's going to be a long ride down even farther.
However, I've always believed Cub fans like to be losers. My bride and myself went to a game last week to see the Cubs play Atlanta[cheap tix on StubHub,scalpers are taking bath]. I had not seen the Braves this year and wanted to see how the Brewers will match up against them. The crowd is, for the most part, yuppie assholes who don't watch the game..they go Wrigley, not to a game. We lived 10 blocks from Wrigley back in the early 80's. Dallas Green tried to turn your team into winners but it's impossible. You don't want to win. See a shrink!!!
What is the definition of meaning?
The baseball season is a long season. 162 games is more games than any other major professional sport. Many games are meaningless, if by meaningful you mean directly impinging on post-season play. Games in April are meaningless. There are so many more to play. Games in July are meaningless. Games by the Kansas City Royals are meaningless.
But the meaning of the games and the meaning of the sport is not about playoffs. The games are meaningful in and of themselves. You put on the radio and listen to the cadence of the announcers on a Summer evening. You go to the park and smell the fresh grass on a Saturday afternoon. The individual games themselves are pure pleasure.
Because baseball has such a long season, strange things happen. Teams aren't always managed to win. A manager must not play his best pitchers in every game or he will hurt the team's chances in subsequent games. Good managers will start backup players at times to give them quality at bats. Yet because baseball isolates individual play so effectively you can almost always count on each player to play as well as he possibly can. That too is a pleasure.
From the 16-game win-at-all-costs scrubs-only-play-in-blowouts NFL perspective, this makes baseball games even more meaningless. Football is outcome-based. Baseball fans love the process.
The worst of both worlds is the NBA, where there are a lot of games, many are meaningless, and there is none of the multi-game continuity you have in baseball of the "series" or the "home stand" or the 4- or 5-game advance through the pitching rotation.
However they want this to sort itself out, just pare down the regular season. Night games in November is what I don't want to see. There are meaningless games played all the time.
More games, more platoff eligible teams, more ticket sales, more ad revenue, more money for players and owners. Nothing about good baseball.
The Cub pitchers know how to get to 3-2 counts even against horseshit hitters.
God, is this true!
Carlos Marmol is the most frustrating pitcher in the history of the Cubs. When he throws strikes he is absolutely unhittable... better even than Mariano Rivera. Marmol's slider is terrifying.
Trouble is, he doesn't throw that many strikes.
So, he commonly walks the bases full, then he has to groove a pitch.
He did this on Friday. Result. Grand slam homer by Derrick Lee and he turned a three run lead into a loss.
And, ndspinelli, I'm a Cubs' fan from birth. It's sort of a birth defect. I grew up watching them in black and white when Jack Brickhouse was the announcer.
My dad took me to games back in the bad old days of the 50s and early 60s, when attendance averaged 6,000 to 7,000 per game.
You could walk right up to the ticket window five minutes before the game and buy any seat in the house.
Those were the good old days. Moe Drabowsky and George Altman.
Baseball lost me mostly with the free agency stuff in the 80s, but the playoffs helped it along.
Ann Althouse said...
They are being tenderized for post-season consumption.
Oh, boy, ain't that the truth.
PS Ah! The good old days, when the team that had the best win-loss average at the end of the season got the pennant.
And, if there was a tie, there was but one game to settle it.
You want to talk about meaningless, let's talk about the Dodgers.
Basically their whole season is about divorce proceedings, between McCourt and his wife, and McCourt and MLB.
In other words, for the Dodgers the real players this season are the lawyers. And the journalists who cover this fiasco of an owner.
The only thing worse than lawyers and journalists, as Trooper might put it, is Frank McCourt.
Top three MLB teams in payroll:
Yankees: $ 202,689,028
Phillies: $ 172,976,379
Red Sox: $ 161,762,475
Top three MLB teams in winning %:
Phillies: .647
Yankees: .616
Red Sox: .604
Until there is a salary cap in baseball the richest teams will be the best teams. The Yankees alone are paying almost $100 million this year to good players they bought as free agents because they couldn't draft and develop their own. Where would they be if they had to build a team the same way the Royals, Brewers, and Orioles did? Probably 4th place in a 5 team division.
I respect real baseball fans of all stripes, and I believe you are one. I see real fans @ Wrigley. This last trip there were 4 blind guys who were taken to the game by volunteers. One was an older black guy who had binocular type eyeglasses. They all listened to the game on radio and were real fans. There was a good, Hispanic dad w/ his son and daughter sitting in front of us. All 3 wore Soto jerseys and watched even more intently when he batted. Unfortunately, you, the blind guys, and the aforementioned family are the minority. And, I think you probably know that.
American League baseball with its Designate Hitter and band-box ballparks is an abomination of the sport.
If Liberals were running baseball, the American League would be its natural outcome - devalue the essential pitching aspect of the game, and gin up cheap runs to entertain the hoi poloi. It's an abortion of God's own gift to right thinking Americans.
That said, yeah, Selig is a buffoon, but the wild card can't fix the fundamental problem with the sport - the Yankees' payroll equals that of the bottom four or five teams, and half the teams stand no chance.
Baseball needs an NFL-style salary cap, with teams required to spend up to 90% of the cap, to improve competition.
The notion this is "socialism" is nonsense - the whole of Major League Baseball is "socialist" in that its overall health requires the Kansas City Royals and Pittsburgh Pirates to be as competitive as the Green Bay Packers are in the NFL. Were the NFL to have MLB rules, the Packers would be perennial losers, for obvious reasons.
I guess my comment didn't make it in, but I agree with the author. Since the expansion, baseball has just gotten too big and complicated. It's just too time consuming to follow an entire season, plus wild card games, playoffs, pennants.
Carol Herman..I've left off your nickname. If you can refrain from commenting on this baseball thread I will back off..I'm a man of my word. There are plenty of other threads who can display your unique thought process. You can do it..use visualization..see yourself skipping over this thread.
PS: Bing's Homepage has a terrific photo today.
@William T. Sherman One more reason why the Brewers are so lovable.
BTW, what do you think of "take your dog to the stadium" night. I think it's crazy! (Though I enjoy some of the shots via TV.)
@William T. Sherman One more reason why the Brewers are so lovable.
They won't seem so lovable, Althouse, when the Cubs sign Prince Fielder to a free agent contract over the winter.
The Cubs rank 6th in team payroll. And, they've managed to produce a team that is in 5th place in the NL Central Division!
"Games by the Kansas City Royals are meaningless"
LOL, Henry! Good one! And an excellently argued overall post, btw...one with which I happen to agree even though I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool baseball fan--but I've been around for a while and have seen a lot of baseball--I'm 67.
Ironically, he's saying the wild card interferes with the climax of the "rubber game", rather than the rubber game interfering with the climax.
The answer: think about football.
Take Your Dog day is just a gimmick promotion that costs little and puts some fannies[and poop] in the seats. I love dogs and baseball, I love bourbon and wine, but not together.
Thanks, Tim..that is a great photo.
Wrong by far. The wild card chase has been the center of the best races in the last years.There is life outside the evil empires. Last year San Diego and the the future World Champion battled until the last day. Since 2001 only one team Boston, , with their two first titles since 1918 (won by fraud like the 1919 of Cinci)has repeated.
Almost every team in MLB has gone to the Playoff in the last ten years.
All but O´s and BJ in the east.
All but Kansas in the center.
All but Seattle in th west
All in the east.
All but Pittsburg in the central. Brewers going this year.
Everyone in the west.
Wild cards went to the WS three times in line.
If Espn only broadscast Bosox . Yamkees is another thing.
MLB has never been so balanced since the 63-95( Only to titles for Yankees)
Both the Yanks and the Sox are loaded with very talented, very patient hitters who
No, the problem is they are prima donnas pampered by the media and umpires. They ask fotr time out when the pitcher is already in movement and is conceded. They take hours to be ready to be n the batterbox.
Still the Yankess rotation is CC ,in his contract year , a rooki, the six million dollar man,Cabreará drinking buddy and a great pitcher that was dismissed for not being a true Yankee.
Boston: Becket who takes 20 seconds to throw a pitch without been penalized likes the rule order. a 44 yo .Bedard, any rotation who sees Bedard as an upgrade needs revision And a broken arm in recovery . The japanese wonder acted unlike the stereotype and was undisciplined and unworthy of his contract and left them.
Both offensive teams playing in aaa parks.
You want meaningless regular season games? Lets talk NBA.
82 Games and half the league goes to the playoffs. The entire season after March 1st is meaningless.
ST/
Living downstate in E. Central Ill, although most of the town were Cards fans, most of us listened to the Cubs games on a summer's eve during the week when I was growing up (when Jack Brickhouse was the announcer and Harry Carey was announcing the Cards games and Dizzy Dean was announcing the weekend game-of-the-week on the tube)) mainly because Chicago radio stations reception was better. lol.
Until there is a salary cap in baseball the richest teams will be the best teams.
You've reversed the direction of causation.
The Orioles had no trouble filling their ballpark when they had good teams. The Red Sox played in a half-empty ballpark in the mid-'90s, when they were mediocre. The TV ratings mirror attendance.
OTOH, there should be a salary cap on the Yankees. For the sake of social justice.
The Yankees alone are paying almost $100 million this year to good players they bought as free agents because they couldn't draft and develop their own.
The Yankees can afford to do both. Derek Jeter, Robinson Cano, Brett Gardner and Mariano Rivera didn't come from other teams.
Something needs to be done. The Yankees don't guarantee themselves a World Series every season with their enormous payroll, but they do punch their ticket for the postseason, where anything can happen. (2003 Marlins?)
I'm as big a capitalist as they come, but the MLB is a closed system — want to start a team? You have to be approved by the other owners. Sure, some teams could pay more for better talent, so I would approve of a salary floor in addition to any ceiling to prevent guys like Loria taking a dump on baseball in South Florida.
There's always an anomaly team that seems to disprove the notion that MLB needs a salary cap, but the fact is the Pirates, et al do not have the markets to spend upwards of $180 million per season to compete.
The September games are also for the not finishing in last place race.
In Atlanta we are still fascinated by the Mets every September. It is like watching the un-sinkable Titanic Payroll going down by the bow with all hands aboard.
@Jose_K -- Great first comment. Second comment is totally off base. Except, in the case of the pitchers, you may be right: Here's some data from 2008:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/short-work/
All the American League East teams rank at the bottom.
The data also shows that relievers work slower than starters and I strongly suspect that pitchers work slower with runners on base. It could be that the American League East is slow because there are (were) so many run-scoring lineups.
@virgil -- Thanks. As Jose_K makes clear, it must be really hard to be a Royals fan these past few decades. Unless there's more than winning, of course.
And there is! One of my favorite baseball outings of recent memory was going to see the Staten Island Yankees play the Brooklyn Cyclones. I don't remember who one or whether, in an A-league game, it mattered in the standings.
Not to be contrary, but if you can put the economics aside, a ball game can be an enjoyable crowd experience with emotion, strategy, and the outdoors.
The game is quite complex, albeit long.
In Milwaukee, most of the fans conduct themselves well, until the third round of beers.
For those who think that free agency has upset "competitive balance" in baseball, here's some relevant data:
Number of different franchises winning the World Series in the 34 since the start of free agency (1976):
20
Number of different franchises winning the World Series in the 34 seasons just prior to free agency:
11
Number of WS won by the Yankees in the free-agency era:
7
Number of WS won by the Yankees in the 34 years just prior to free agency:
11
I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan, and still am, but I don't care any more. I can still sit and watch a game because I want to see who does what in the very interesting pitcher vs batter game with some side trips to the base runner game and the fielder game and the managerial tactics game.
Generally all pro sports suck. College games are still exciting but they are rapidly becoming like the pros. The BCS system has made college post-season bowls meaningless
Great post, Henry.
Good to see Ann back on baseball.
The present format is flawed for the obvious reason - repeatedly making division races meaningless. The game has been structured about the pennant (division) race for over 100 years. Now, witness Yankees and Re Sox, the division race is meaningless. It you agree that is a problem, there are three solutions:
1. Go back to just division winners getting to the playoff, with the addition of two teams so there are 8 divisions.
2. Expand the wild card by one team in each league and have some type of wildcard showdown (I prefer best of 3 series) to make the divioin title over wild card more meaningful and to creat more post season excitement with the wildcard showdown.
3. Significantly expand the playoffs to about 16 teams (expand by 2 to make it half the teams) to create more of post season tournament atmosphere. You also would shorten the season by about two weeks to allow time for better weather playoff games.
I vote for 2.
ps: Kansas City baseball games are not meaningless. They have the best young talent in baseball and will likely contend for the next several years.
I meant to say that I vote for 1.
There are plenty of players to field two new teams, so let a couple more cities have major league baseball and a couple more cities have playoff joy each year.
I was born to the Red Sox and my early games included Ted Williams, Jimmy Piersall, Dom DiMaggio, and Mel Parnel. I had a brief fling with the Washington Senators when we moved, but then the Senators moved, twice. So F' em.
I've been back to the Red Sox since and now watch most of their games on NFL.com. And I enjoy watching them, at least 130 per year. I don't always enjoy them, particularly when they find ways to lose to crap teams, but that's part of the Boston ethos, I guess.
I certainly don't want the season extended through adding more teams to the playoffs. Baseball doesn't belong in November any more than the NFL belongs in August. The NHL and the NBA simply don't belong and end up taking good fourth-run TV shows off the cable stations in their never-ending, meaningless thrashing.
Rare is a Yankees Bosox game that is a laugher, mostly they're so tight that each manager may bring in a relief pitcher once or even twice to pitch to just one batter (lefty on lefty or righty on righty) in order to try to gain the tiniest advantage. So between the high pitch count, that ST already alluded to, and the multiple pitching changes you've got 3 and 1/2 hour games.
Chip S, Way to shoot down the conventional wisdom w/ facts. This is not a good year for the Twins. However, they have been one of the most consistent franchises over the past 25 years. They do it w/ good baseball people bringing players along the correct way and teaching fundamentals. If they had the $'s to keep their good players when they reach free agent status, they would be dominant.
Kansas City, I lived in your great town from 1975-81. We would go to 40-50 games a year and usually sit in left field general admission[$1.50]. I agree w/ you about their young talent. Yost is good w/ young players but he doesn't handle veterans very well.
This thread needs the great Dave Frishberg song, Van Lingle Mungo.
There is no such thing as a meaninghless game. Each and every one is a precious gem to be treasured. You ride the Number4 train and it burst out of the tunnel and you are at the Staduim!
You take your sons or your daughters or grand chlids hand as you walk down the metal steps out on to River Avenue. You stop at Stan's to check out the new jeresys and t-shirts and maybe you buy the kids a new Swisher or Cano t shirt like your Dad bought you a Bobby Murcer or Jake Gibbs one. You walk along the streets milling with fans a huge river of people following toward their goal...the ultimate goal....the stadium....in the promise of the spring....in the warm embrace of the summer...in the crisp tang of the fall....you are at the game....you are home.
Baseball games are never meaningless.
You hand your ticket to the usher and they don't rip like they used to but scan it. They stop you to search because we have no balls and we let a bunch of ignorant barbarians control our live instead of bombing them back to the stone age. You walk up the ramps because you hate escalators and get to the level where your seats are. You find you seats and chase out whoever is trying to sit in them. You hear a call "HOT DOGS! HOT DOGS HERE!" Hey buddy over her 4 dogs."
Then you really here the siren's song. "BEEEEEEERRRRR HEEEERRRREEEE!
BEER HERE! ICE COLD BEER! YOUR COUSIN BREWSKI'S HERE!"
"YO BEER OVER HERE! Gimmie four beers!"
You are sitting there with your cold beer and your hot dog. You are looking over the vast green expanse of the catheral of baseball. The players are running and stretching and playing pepper on the baselines. The writera are around the batting cage and the out of town scores are flashing on the scoreboard. They might stop and run a video. Look it's the Thruman Munsonn one! The players on the opposing teams turn to watch it. You get a tear in your eye for the thousandth time. You turn to your kid and your buddy and your buddy's kid. "Hey we are gonna get first pitch. What's better than that?"
There are no meaningless games in baseball.
It just depends on the definition of meaningless. If you love baseball, and particularly if you have a kid and a dad/mom who loved baseball, no game is meaningless. On the other hand, if your interest is in your team winning and making the playoffs, then some games are meaningless.
Hey who is playing? The Royals! Man they suck. But remember when you used to play them in the playoffs with Freddy Patek and Amos Otis and that fuckin crybaby George Brett! I want to see their team. I hear they have a couple of good young pitchers. Maybe we can steal them when they become free agents.
Wait who are we playing today? The Tigers? Wow I remember when they used to come in with Al Kaline and WIllie Horton and Norm Cash that fuckin drunk fuck. Man those guys could hit. And then they had my favorite fat guy Mickey Lolich. Gave all us fat fucks a hero! Let's see who they have. Don't they have that kid from Florida who is hitting the cover off of the ball. Let's see what that's like.
Every team that comes in has a history with the Yankees. History, tradition and continuity. That's what baseball is all about.
There are no meaningless games in baseball.
Before free agency and multimillion dollar payrolls...baseball was a dying sport. I remember in the sixties and the seventies you could do like Shouting Thomas said and walk right up and buy a ticket for almost any seat in the house on game day. Free agency gave teams a chance to get people interested again. Gave them a chance to see their team improve or just get a star that they wanted to see. Free agency and cable TV is what made major league baseball what it is today.
I am tied of all the douches who cry about salaries and TV and too many games and the playoffs and steroids and the designated hitter.
Listen go get yours self a bow tie and a seersucker suit and go to your den and whack off to a photo of Charlie Comiskey like George Will does and leave the rest of us alone.
We are going to the game.
There are no meaningless games in baseball.
Hey it's 8 to 8 in the 5th. Freddy Garcia and the other dude got pounded. Cano got a grandslam. It's Labor Day and we have baseball on the radio while we are posting on the internets!
Soon we are gonna throw a couple of dogs on the grill again.
There are no meaningless games in baseball.
Van Lingle Mungo!
Chip S.'s facts only tell a part of the story.
The saving grace of baseball's post-season is that anything can happen in a short series.
Wow, Trooper, when I read your writing I can totally hear that being spoken by Susan Sarandon. Nicely done, Troop.
You really know how to hurt a guy Sixty.
And not for nuthin but even though she is a big time commie I would still hit that.
(if I wasn't married)
What's so terrible about meaningless? If you love boredom (all lazy people like moi do) what could've been better than watching the team that owned 8th place, the Pittsburgh Pirates, playing the team that owned 6th place, the Cincinnati Reds, on some boiling hot Sunday doubleheader in August at either Crosley Field or Forbes Field back in the '50's. For some people the total inconsequence and irrelevance to the great and terrible world of winners (like the Damned Yankees) was a consolation. A consolation and a comfort. Let those who understand understand. And for those who don't a hearty raspberry.
Saying that a baseball game is meaningless is like saying you are having meaningless sex. It always means something. Maybe something bad but it means something.
There are no meaningless games in baseball.
Meaningless sex
Even a bunt
Can be beaten out
Sometimes a homer happens
And if you strikeout
There's always another time at bat
Van Lingle Mungo...
Meaingless sex
Getting to first
was once a goal
Now you just know
that you pay a toll
Yes you start at third
and can score at will
But for every thrill
there's always a bill
Van Lingle Mungo
"It's Labor Day and we have baseball on the radio while we are posting on the internets!"
Meta!
lol Grits.
I just finished Moneyball by Michael Lewis. It's a compelling read. But I still find baseball confusing.
Yanks beat Red Sox today 11 to 10. It would have been a much greater game if they were not each protected by the wild card and instead were highly motivated to win their division.
Isn't that obvious? And, it does not just apply to the Yankees and Red Sox. Other years is has ruined other pennant races and this year, to a small extent, it protects the Braves from facing the pressur of an urgent charge to try to catch the Phillies.
There are no meaningless games in baseball
My thoughts, exactly.
Fear the beer.
Crybaby George Brett? What is that about? I watched him for 18 years and did not see that at all.
KC, You need to understand the provincial Yankee mentality. Trooper is probably talking about the famous pine tar incident. Brett, as you remember, righteously raved @ the shanty Irishman umpire decision to disallow the home run. What I know Trooper remembers is that horseshit ruling was overruled in a rare protest and the Royals won that game. Yankee fans really respected and feared Brett..Trooper has poor posture but he does still like to posture.
Yanks beat Red Sox today 11 to 10.
You know things aren't going your way when the Yankees follow you up to Toronto to play against you in a bubble universe.
Meanwhile, on this planet, it was Baltimore that lost to NY 11-10. Boston lost to Toronto 1-0 in 11 innings.
Two completely different yet completely enjoyable types of ballgames. With or without the wild card.
Meaningless? Get this, Jesus hit two home runs for the Yankees.
First of all that ruling was a travesty of justice. It only happened because that douchebag Lee MacPhail was a failed Yankee executive who George fired. The same rule had come up a couple of months before when a hit by Thurman Munson was dissallowed by the umpire and the Yankees lost a game because of it. So Billy Martin kept that in his pocket and when he saw how Brett was cheating and breaking the rules with his pine tar bat he waited until the right moment to use it. It was only ruled that way because it was the Yankees. You bet your ass that if it was a Yankee player that cunt MacPhail would have ruled against the Yankees.
George Brett was a crybaby pussy and a poor excuse for a ball player. He should have sucked it up and went on the field to win the game. Not go crying to Mommy. He broke the rules but got away with it because they always rule against the Yankees.
Also the Yankees played the Orioles today but it is too much to ask a Royals fan to know the uniforms of the other teams. I mean they have to have the players names printed on their uniforms so you know who they are.
A real fan knows who is players are without having to read the name on their back. Just sayn'
The real problem with baseball is teams like the Royals who when they get their revenue sharing money from the Yankees and don't spend it on players but instead put it in their pockets. They should be forced to spend the money on the player on the field and they wouldn't lose them to free agency.
There's you're problem right there.
And nd you are dead wrong. Yankee fans never respected and feared George Brett. He was no great shakes. A lousy singles hitter. You respected and feared guys like Boog Powell and Frank Howard and Frank Robinson and Manny Rameriz and even Albert Belle. But George Brett? He was the white Tony Gwynn. A pale Rod Carew. A pink Bill Madlock. Singles hitter. Big whoops.
The Royals were always crybaby pussies anyway. What's the most famous image of a Kansas City Royal?
A called shot by the Babe.
A circus catch by the Yankee clipper.
A towering home run by Mickey.
No. It's not.
The most famous image of the Kansas City Royals is Freddie Patek crying the dugout after they lost like a little bitch.
Those playoff series were a long time ago.
But I don't forget.
That's why I love to go to the Stadium to watch us beat their sorry hick asses.
There are no meaningless games in Baseball.
If you are a true fan!
The same rule had come up a couple of months before when a hit by Thurman Munson was dissallowed by the umpire and the Yankees lost a game because of it.
This would be a lot more persuasive if Munson hadn't flown his plane into the ground 4 years before the pine-tar game.
He left the name of his flight instructor in the Yankees' clubhouse, where it was found years later by Cory Lidle.
The most famous image of the Kansas City Royals is Freddie Patek crying the dugout after they lost like a little bitch.
Kinda reminds me of this.
Mistyped that. It was a couple of years before. Sorry.
I think it was against the Twins inn the first year that Billy was the manager.
What was impressive was that Billy still remember it as drunk as he usually was at the time.
But Billy Martin and Earl Weaver and Bob Lemon and Dick Williams were better managers piss assed drunk then most of these computer carrying douchebags are today.
Moneyball my ass.
Sorry I get overexicted when I talk about big miscarriges of justice like the Pine Tar game.
It's like the fuckin Scottsboro boys or something like that there.
A Rod is only crying because Cameron Diaz gave him herpes.
Not about a ballgame.
Hey, it was obviously a great game.
But in defense of George Brett, he led the league in slugging pct. three times, including the year of the pine-tar game. Not quite a mere singles hitter, though he never led the league in homers.
Now Wade Boggs was a singles hitter. Who looked like a total douchebag on a police horse.
I thought ARod got that from Derek Jeter, who seems to have been popular with his teammates.
On the subject of competitive balance, what's so great about it anyway?
Red Sox/Yankees games draw big numbers for Fox and ESPN, everybody seems to be interested in them, games are usually tense and fans are into it.
Who the fuck wants to watch Oakland play Anaheim? Not even that many people in Oakland. And the last time I watched an Angels playoff game in a bar in South Bay everybody else was more interested in a fucking Vikings game on the other TVs.
Ah, Booger Powell - he makes more money selling barbeque outside of the stadium than he ever did playing the game. Long may he sling the chopped pork.
Trooper, I got curious enough about this whole pine-tar business to look up the actual story. Turns out Graig Nettles was the mastermind:
The Yankees had played the Royals in Kansas City two weeks earlier. Brett was using the same bat, his favorite.
"Everyone thinks it was Billy, but it was actually [Yankees third baseman] Graig Nettles who spotted it," Gossage said. "[Yankees catcher Thurman] Munson had been called out on that a few years previously. We were laying in the weeds. I had gotten George out in a big situation in Kansas City [two weeks earlier], and he was using the same bat. So when he came to the plate that day in New York, Nettles told me George was using an illegal bat. I said, 'Oh, good.' Then George hit the homer, and all hell broke loose."
Well you see I remembered the game that Munson was called out. So when the pine tar game happened I thought there was no way it would be overturned. But MacPhail hated the Yankees and wanted to stick it to George. So he changed the rules after the fact. Usually a rule is a rule. But if MLB could stick it to the Yankees then they would change the rules.
The call against Munson in 1975 was neither upheld nor overturned by the American League (which handled appeals in those days) for one simple reason: The Yankees never appealed it:
Surprisingly, the Yankees had missed the chance to protest a decision from an earlier pine-tar controversy. In a 1975 game, the Twins complained that Yankees catcher Thurman Munson had excessive pine tar on his bat when he drove in a first-inning run. The umpires called Munson out and nullified the run, but the Yankees did not protest. In making the Brett decision eight years later, MacPhail said he believed the Yankees “would have won the protest based on this decision.”
Not surprisingly, the language of the official rules has been clarified.
Lee MacPhail's decision in 1983 was fully consistent with a decision he made in September 1975 involving the Angels and a KC batter (John Mayberry, not Brett). In that case, the Angels protested that two HRs by Mayberry should be disallowed b/c of excessive pine tar on his bat. Their appeal was denied.
Of course they didn't protest it. That's a pussy move. You go out and win the game.
I didn't know about the other case with MacPhail but there is no doubt that he had it in for George and the Yankees.
And if he did rule that way it is wrong. If the Royals were repeat offenders he should have punished them for it.
A rule is a rule. You don't get to change it because of it's spirit unless you are Ruth Buzzi Ginsberg or something.
"Of course they didn't protest it. That's a pussy move. You go out and win the game."
Except when the other team hits a home run, in which case you whine about the amount of pine tar on the player's bat.
"A rule is a rule."
Like MLB's Rule 3.16:
When there is spectator interference with any thrown or batted ball, the ball shall be dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as in his opinion will nullify the act of interference.
APPROVED RULING: If spectator interference clearly prevents a fielder from catching a fly ball, the umpire shall declare the batter out.
Jeffrey ("Yo la tengo") Maier says hi.
So does Chuck "phantom tag" Knoblauch.
Oh, those noble Yankees. I don't know how they manage to survive, when the umpires and MLB are so clearly out to get them.
Tee hee.
Trooper says "George Brett was just a white singles hitter."[career 317 HR's]
Then Jeter is just a half white singles hitter[career 239 HR's].
That wasn't a single Brett put into the upper deck off Gossage to win the playoffs.
Those weren't 3 singles he put over the fence in Yankee Stadium in one playoff game.
You must be standing on your head because you're talking out of your ass!!
Oh, and Trooper..the pine tar incident wasn't over a single, now was it??
Every knowledgeable Yankee fan feared Brett, particularly in the clutch, and you know it. First ballot Hall of Famer. Went into the hall w/ Yount..two similar California dudes who were pros, played w/ one team, and had no scandals. I don't consider hemmorhoids a scandal. Preparation H is not a performance enhancing drug. Actually..if you put it on your prick, it will hurt performance by shrinking it. Don't ever try it Trooper..you need both of those inches!!
Of course Jeter is a singles hitter. But he doesn't claim to be anything else. What he is ....is a leader. How many World Series did he lead us to? How many did Brett?
You know that excessive hemeroids is a sign of too much anal sex. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That wasn't just pine tar he had on his bats you know.
George Brett was a freaky guy.
As far as the Jeffrey Maier play....hey the unpire had to call interferance not the Yankees. What you wanted the Yankess to say it was a do over or something?
The Knobloauch play happens every other game. Nothing to see there.
If you don't think there is a hatred and double standard as far as the Yankees go you are not paying attention.
Read up about how Fay Vincent treated Stick Michael and Buck Showalter and how he hammered George over the Dave Winfield bullshit. Look at the Wilponizies. They drove their team into the ground and invested all their money and conspired with one of the biggest crooks in American History. Then they sold part of their team and then broke the deal when the situation changed showing they have no honor in their business dealings. And they skate.
It is a lot of bullshit.
Trooper says Boog Powell was a real hitter and Brett is a singles hitter.
Career HR's for Boog: 339
Career HR's for Brett: 317
So, if you're Trooper York, a 22 HR difference makes one powerful and great, and the other a "singles hitter."
Remmeber Trooper...keep the Preparation H away from that 2 incher when you apply it to your ass. I have to use it to get down to a manageable 8 inches!
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