State Sen. Spencer Coggs, D-Milwaukee, [said] "There is some racism in this bill"....
"This is a shameful day," Sen. Bob Jauch, D-Poplar, said. "It is the day that democracy died."
१९ मे, २०११
Voter ID passes in the Wisconsin Senate and protesters chant "Shame!"
"Those in the Senate gallery sang 'We Shall Overcome' after a speech about voting rights."
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210 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Nope, no "slant" in that article........
Ensuring democracy works fairly kills democracy. LOL
They need to think of a new chant, because all I read is, "Shameless chant 'Shame!'"
ACORN (or whatever they're called now) says that Voter ID will cut the number votes cast by people they work with, by 80% or more.
There aren't any black people in Wisconsin to racism against, are there?
Democracy keeps dying in Wisconsin it seems. It's an undead political system you have there.
The saddest thing is that by crying, "shame" so much, they've almost entirely emptied their ability to expose and confront really shameful acts. The protesting generation now has zero moral authority because they confused whim and opinion with real issues of life and freedom.
"Shame," they say. Yeah, and others say the world is going to end on Saturday. People just ignore such people who constantly wear real or rhetorical sandwich boards.
"It is the day that democracy died."
LOL. Yes, because taking steps to ensure 1-person, 1-vote during elections, which our Dear Leader has told us have consequences, is killing democracy.
You know what kills democracy? People like Pelosi saying things like "elections shouldn't matter as much as they do". Which is a more poison pill?
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how showing ID to vote "suppresses" or "disenfranchises" legitimate voters...
Buy a six pack - ID. Decide who is to be the Commander in Chief of the most powerful military in the world, or who can locally tax you, make laws, etc.... RACISM!!!!!
I don't think the Left knows what the word "democracy" really means.
I don't understand why presenting an identification to vote showing you are you is a problem.
Tell me (this is an honest question): how did you register to vote? Did you not need some sort of identification?
Wait, democracy turns out to be about voting after all? I thought taping up signs in the Capitol and yelling a lot was what democracy looks like. They're not going to require ID for any of that.
Why is it considered racist to have to prove your identity before you vote? I just did it here in Florida for a local election and I don't feel slighted. As a matter of fact we just elected out first ever African American mayor (over the white baptist churchgoing air apparent)... shrug..
"ACORN (or whatever they're called now) says that Voter ID will cut the number votes cast by people they work with, by 80% or more."
I.e., 80% of the people they work with are felons and illegal aliens.
Paul -- I disagree. They are consistent, these people. Whenever they tell us about democracy, there is always chanting, stupid signs, and much lamentation. Therefore, obviously, democracy involves those three things in great multitudes.
Well, if the world does end on Saturday, at least we won't have to deal with such wailing morons.
Hope it is Saturday. I don't think I can make it until next year, when the Mayan calendar thing hits.
@pst314: yeah, has to be more than 80%, then, if you count the dead people, too.
Fuck off, Democrats. One man, one vote.
Where is Poplar?
Wisconsin is slowing restoring itself in the eyes of civilization.
how did you register to vote? Did you not need some sort of identification?
To register in Wisconsin, at least for same-day registration, you have to show an ID or give the last four digits of your SSN. You also have to show proof of residency (utility bill, bank statement) if your current address is not on your ID.
There is an option to check for someone who has neither ID nor SSN, but the city clerk told me nobody has ever checked that option, which would make sense because how do you get to voting age without a SSN?
Nope, no "slant" in that article...
Even better, I can't comment on the article at the State Journal unless I register.
Must be racism, eh?
The idiot patrol is calling out their favorite chant for no reason at all. The Dems must be hell bent to redistribute voting in elections. Ezra Klein says the young need extra votes since they are scheduled for longer lives in Socialist Amerika. Now that idea is as shameful as it gets
If I was a "poll worker" I would prefer if the voters (at least those that I decide) would just show their tits.
If they didn't no vote for them.
Although it is next to impossible to find a nice set of tits in Wisconsin. Totally depressing.
I need to take a drive to Milwaukee to see if there are any hot brownies but I highly doubt it.
It's a shame that it took this long to pass it. It's only been an issue since the late 1990s.
Another uplifting and refreshing whiff of rationality from Wisconsin.
Ok, I just found Poplar. It is by Superior. How not fab.
Could you imagine being a fag and living in Superior Wisconsin.
Shoot me if that ever happens to me.
So, if Class is correct, and that sounds reasonable to me, you need an identification of some kind to sign up to vote. Why, therefore, is it a problem to ask people to bring that very same identification to the polling place?
We shall overcome... what?
(What Paddy said - people like that, well, they could say "democracy died!" about an actual Fascist coup, and "shame!" about, say, a Communist mass-murder regime, and I'd assume they were just talking trash, because they've never once been right before.)
What Wisconsin ever did to deserve these epic fucksticks running things I don't know.
"Bring your kids to Wisconsin and enjoy our yummy feces and cholera tainted water supplies, shit schools, and concealed guns in restaraunts!"
Wisconsin. Backward. And Beyond!
Stop it, Titus, you poseur. No way you appreciate tits in the same way I do.
Don't forget the fags not being able to see their fag partner while they are in the hospital-that's just cruel.
Now that idea is as shameful as it gets
Yeah, almost lost breakfast over that one. You could also make the argument, using that language, that the rich should have weighted votes because they have more capital, property, etc invested in the country and therefor much more to be affected by new laws.
Under Klein's logic, a young, rich guy could probably just crown himself emperor.
There's definitely some racism going on here. It's pretty racist to think that non-white people are incapable of presenting identification at the polls.
Wisconsin. Backward. And Beyond!
Home of the progressive movement, now turned into Alabama!
"Bring your kids to Wisconsin and enjoy our yummy feces and cholera tainted water supplies, shit schools, and concealed guns in restaraunts!"
MOVE, then. Or organize support for your candidates.
Stop complaining.
Isn't it embarrassing to live in a state that has so many crybabies? Do they whine when they have to show ID to buy beer or cash a check?
I love tits Ruy and I demand an apology from you for not thinking I am sincere.
Tits give life, they are about freedom, America, apple pie, wet tshirt contests.
Tits Rule.
Wait...don't we have to sue, and run the law by an activist judge that will stay the order because it violates open voting....or sum'thin'
Garage -- If you must have identification to register to vote, what's wrong with requiring identification when actually voting?
Why don't all of you folks down with the ridiculous 'shame' meme try your antics next time you go through airport security, where proper ID is mandatory. I'd like to see how long it takes for security to haul your sorry asses away.
Liberals; redefining democracy one grievance at a time.
Aw, garage, you've got it all backwards. Again.
Odd, I thought democracy was mortally wounded in Wisconsin when 14 Senators fled to deny the will of the citizens of Wisconsin.
What Wisconsin ever did to deserve these epic fucksticks running things I don't know.
My guess would be the previous epic fucksticks. That's how it works where I live.
BarryD "@pst314: yeah, has to be more than 80%, then, if you count the dead people, too."
Here in Chicago that puts the figure to 150%. :-)
Which reminds me: I know a lot of Wisconsin liberals, and if there's one thing they have always known and have always talked about, it's how corrupt Chicago politics is. And yet somehow they forgot all this and voted for a corrupt Chicago asshole for President. Funny, that.
I love tits Ruy and I demand an apology from you for not thinking I am sincere.
Tits give life, they are about freedom, America, apple pie, wet tshirt contests.
Tits Rule.
Huh? They are the true totem of the one true religion. Your disrespectful banter is just making things worse. Burn the heretic!
My 62 year old girlfiend was carded in a bar in St. Paul recently.
She was insufferable the rest of the night.
I wonder what the bill has to look like for Wisconsin Democrats to not cry out "shame".
My 62 year old girlfiend was carded in a bar in St. Paul recently.
Jeez, I get carded in Madison every time I buy beer. I'm 51.
Excuse me? Why racism? If Blacks think that white people all think they look alike, then they need to clip ID off a cereal box.
Perhaps, if we used the "finger dipped into purple ink" it would give an advantage to darker skinned people, NOT!
But without a way of identifying someone, and/or using computers. Theft will become "marketplace." There won't be any fair elections.
And, exit polls will become inaccurate. Which, statistically speaking, they are not.
Oh, yeah. And, Kloppenhoppen is setting records are NOT conceding. What a bag of BS we've watched take over our election's process.
Meanwhile, Ronald Reagan DID NOT GO TO IOWA! (Sure. Back in 1980, it "looked like a mistake.") Wasn't then. Won't be ahead. (And, so far? Iowa has attracted the has been Guiliani.)
People are getting furious-er and furious-er.
MarkG -- Liquor sales is an inherently racist endeavor. As is the movie rating system. Also air travel and, at the 7-11 near my house, using a debit card.
Finally voter ID moves forward. A great day for those in WI who care about fair elections and voter integrity.
My first vote was cast for JFK. I had turned 21 in time to vote in 1960.
Do you know when I went in to vote, each precinct has ROLL BOOKS. My signature was VALIDATED. They weren't using pictures! But they were using SIGNATURES.
What ever happened to the roll books?
Today? I vote by mail. Absentee. The ballots arrive automatically, to my home, for each and every election. And, yes. While my ballot is secret. And, I place it into an "holder" so no one, other than the counting machines, can identify the votes ... I still place this in an evelope. That gets sent through the mails. AND, my signature needs to be applied to the outer envelope, for my votes, inside, to be counted.
You know, there's also an additional level of security. I place a stamp on the envelope. And, the USA has laws on its books that can put people in jail ... for tampering with ... or stealing US mail.
(Heck, if you accidently dropped your envelope into a mail box slot, you could NOT, by law, stick your hand in to pull it out!)
@Seven
Here's one to consider; check-cashing services.
Racist?
So, if Class is correct, and that sounds reasonable to me, you need an identification of some kind to sign up to vote. Why, therefore, is it a problem to ask people to bring that very same identification to the polling place?
I believe the logic here, is to match the name on your id to you utility bill. If there is even an address on your id, it could be out of date.
MarkG -- Liquor sales is an inherently racist endeavor. As is the movie rating system. Also air travel and, at the 7-11 near my house, using a debit card.
As are standarized tests, WWII movies set on the Pacific, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and Governors of Indian heritage.
The next most racist thing is making people present identification to get a driver's license. Shame.
Given that the biggest burden on the minority communities is not voting rights but unemployment, anything that encourages a poor individual to get a valid ID, establish a stable address, and perhaps even become a legal driver, should be celebrated.
I'm confused. Is Coggs suggesting that black people are unable to carry ID?
Yes, Coggs et al have lower expectations when it comes to black people.
"There is some racism in this bill"....
I know because I sneaked in thru the window last night and had a piece.
"Bring your kids to Wisconsin and enjoy our yummy feces and cholera tainted water supplies, shit schools, and concealed guns in restaraunts!"
I guess it wouldn't be sporting to point out that Socialists and Democrats (they may even be one and the same) have been running Milwaukee for at least 100 years.
Yes, the same Milwaukee that has had outbreaks of cryptosporidium infections. The same Milwaukee that continues, through the MMSD, to dump untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan.
While campaigning for mayor, Tom Barrett promised to end sewerage dumping....its only increased ten-fold during his tenure.
WTF no "Hey hey ho ho" chant? I feel cheated.
Well I can understand why the left is so on fire against this Voter ID bill and they have every right to be worried.
It will now be sooo much harder to cheat on election day. Who would have ever thought that it would come to this....
One person, one vote. Oh, the humanity!
I am still trying to understand how the requirement to show that you are actually the person who is registered is responsible for the "death of democracy". One would logically think that letting people vote who are not who they say they are would be the "death of democracy".
But, the left always has been rather weak on logic.
@Lem
Sweet. When I hear these 'tards yelling 'our house!', all I can think of is a toddler yelling 'mine! mine! mine!'
What ever happened to the roll books?
Hey, take the roll book from a Dane or MKE County polling place and contact every household where a ballot was issued. Ask 'em if they knew they voted. Think the liberals would go for that?
Home of the progressive movement, now turned into Alabama!
Indeed. The state that hailed giants like Bob LaFollette, John Muir, and Aldo Leopold is now captive to C level college dropouts like Scott Walker. And yes, Mike Ellis is a dick. Hopefully the courts will put the hammer on this piece of shit stat.
You have to show ID to buy over the counter cold medicines that contain pseudoephedrine. I guess black people don't buy cold medicine.
Seven Machos (12:17 PM) said...
Tell me (this is an honest question): how did you register to vote? Did you not need some sort of identification?
Funny - that's the very same question I was asking over here, only 2 minutes earlier.
JoAnne Kloppenburg and her voters say they are concerned about voter confidence in elections. Thus the recounts. But they want to be selective in their concerns: chain of custody - yes; positive identification of respective registered voters - no. Why? Because they want to protect for themselves a bloc of voters who they patronizingly deem unequal and inept when it comes to meeting the same burdens other voters already seem to be able to meet.
They say it has to do with race and class and socio-economic prejudices, and they're right. It has to do with the Democrats' ability to effectively manipulate people's emotions based on race and class and socio-economic levels.
Now, as Kloppenburg hinted last night, if so-called Democrats can't get what they want through elections, they will litigate in the courts to block and delay and end up with only the legislation that fits into their illiberal undemocratic myopic "progressive" template.
So they are demonstrating for us "what democracy looks like." It looks like effectively overturning democratic elections. It looks like illegal occupation and illegal teachers' strikes. It looks like mob rule.
We Shall Overcome? Really? Do these mopes take requests? I wouldn't mind hearing 'In them old cotton fields back home.'
I don't think the progressive movement was killed in Wisconsin. I think it died of neglect. When proponents are perennially stuck in 1963 concerning the voting process, 1929 concerning healthcare, and 1838 concerning transportation and energy production, the rest of the public can't help but think somebody dropped the torch somewhere. "Progressives: Looking backward!"
The cries of racism are disingenuous as usual.
What this is REALLY about is the restrictions on college students from out of state being prevented from voting both at home and in Wisconsin as well.
Google "students voting in two states" and you can see how rampant this problem is across the nation.
This is an even bigger problem than ACORN and its successor companies, and it's a great thing that Wisconsin is taking a first step towards addressing it.
I had to show ID and sign a register to buy Allegra for my allergies.
Isn't the law requiring ID and proof of citizenship to get a job a much greater burden on poor people, minorities, and anyone else having a -- real or imagined -- hard time of it?
"Yes, Coggs et al have lower expectations when it comes to black people."
FYI: Coggs is black. She comes from a Milwaukee family with a long history of political involvement, and has often said stupid things.
"I guess black people don't buy cold medicine."
No they buy "Buckleys" and nobody would buy that shit unless they were sick.
In Milwaukee County you have to show a photo ID to be able to check books out of the public library.
Obviously black folks don't use the library.
Republicans cheat by requiring picture ID.
Democrats cheat by ... every other way imaginable.
We still have roll books in NJ where you have to sign in. Did it just last month.
You got a letter to the editor there Meade.
What's a "buckley"?
Way to go Wisconsin! It is about time for this type of bill to pass.
GM: why do you always have to go the basest of language when you don't get your way. Too dumb to make a cogent argument?
"The saddest thing is that by crying, 'shame' so much, they've almost entirely emptied their ability to expose and confront really shameful acts."
You'd think some of the savvier ones would recognize that, even if only as a crass political calculation. As it is, the mindless, repetitive chants of "shame!" appear almost clownish and more than just a little bit embarrassing.
Politicians really like the hyperbole, don't they?
"I guess black people don't buy cold medicine."
JaMarcus Russell begs to differ.
WV: facksh. Sean Connery as Joe Friday: Jush the facksh, ma'am.
Buckley's is just about the best cough medicine you can get. That shit tastes horrible but it really works.
Wisconsin...Where Democracy Comes to Die.
Seriously, hyperbolic much? I think democracy has died at least a dozen times this year in Wisconsin alone...
Why do the left rage against accountability. You know, one man, one vote? Are they that delusional or that corrupt? Or are they delusionaly corrupt?
Trey
Black people love Buckley's.
Well except for William F that is.
JaMarcus Russell begs to differ.
Or Johnny Jolly, who is on the Packers roster.
In Milwaukee County you have to show a photo ID to be able to check books out of the public library.
Such a winning argument. Because checking out books that you don't own is just like exercising your consitutional right to vote. It's not like you'd ever actually admit it's a completely uneccesary bill costing millions for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls. But you and everyone else knows it's true.
Welcome, Wisconsin, to the First World. Here's hoping the rest of the country catches up fast (NC is about to implement their own reforms any day now).
Without free and fair elections, this country is finished. We'll end up being run by the same type of power-mad ignorami who fled the State, abandoned their jobs and destroyed public property to take revenge on the voters.
You have to show ID to buy over the counter cold medicines that contain pseudoephedrine. I guess black people don't buy cold medicine.
Or an old person, for that matter. They never need medicine.
Google "students voting in two states" and you can see how rampant this problem is across the nation.
Erza Klein can bite me then. The young are already getting two votes to my one.
Garage: for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls.
How does it keep them from voting?
This lists some stats from a UW-Milwaukee driver license study. For example,
"For young adults ages 18-24, 78% of African American males and 66% of African American females in Wisconsin were without a valid driver's license."
SO, are these people buying smokes & booze w/o getting carded? Are they driving w/o a license? Are they all squeaky clean bus riders?
"The percentage (82%) of 18, 19, and 20 year olds without a driver's license at their ZIP code for college student-intensive neighborhoods in Eau Claire, LaCrosse, Madison, Milwaukee, Oshkosh, Platteville, River Falls, Stevens Point, Stout, and Whitewater, Wisconsin."
SO, it's super important for these college kids to get a valid, up to date ID when they turn 21 (glug glug) but it's shameful to ask that they do so to help ensure 1 vote per person?
Side story: I have a friend (in WI) who lives on the same street as someone with a similar name. In the past, she has been denied the right to vote, presumably because her neighbor was "given" her vote. I'd cry "Shame!", but that word has lost all meaning to me.
It's the end of the Democrats being able to corrupt the election process. In Louisiana we did this after Mary Landrieu stole the 1996 Senate elections by having thugs bum rush the polls and vote over and over again.
Pretty much everyone has a state issued ID. Get over it Democrats.
IMO there was massive voter fraud in the 2008 elections. Notice anything about the states that border Illinois.
for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls.
Honestly, GM, you really think anti-fraud has zero to do with it? You honestly think its a cabal of racist white people tryin' to keep a brutha down?
So, for Garage, this is about the vital duty to treat people equally regardless of their race and, of course, their status as undergraduates.
In my cursory scan of the Constitution just now, I discovered no authority for ensuring the rights of undergrads. Where is that, Garage?
Also, I will be interested to see the argument that getting an identification unduly burdens a particular race, religion, or gender, or any other class except for people under 18. Speaking of which, isn't this whole "voting" apparatus an undue burden for young people under 18? Why are they discriminated against?
"...for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls"
Really? This (or very similar measures) previously passed with bi-partisan legislative support twice in the last 8 years, but was nixed by Doyle's veto. They were somehow prognosticating recalls in 2011?
The feigned outrage over this bill is a ruse! Don't fall for it. Next week we'll start hearing that the only remedy for minority disenfranchisement is a national ID card--one of the left's favorite pet projects. Don't want a national ID card? What are you, a racist?
It is not racist to require ID to:
Use a credit card
Buy cold medicine that works
Buy cigarettes
Buy beer
Enter an adult bookstore
Get on an airplane
Take a drug test
Take the SATs
Sign up for the designated driver program at a ball game
Drop off trash at a county dump
Rent skis
It is racist to require ID to vote.
Garage's tears sustain me.
Garage's tears sustain me.
LOL! Thread-winner. I haven't laughed that hard at a blog comment in quite a while.
Well-crafted, sir.
SevenMachos Said: "I don't understand why presenting an identification to vote showing you are you is a problem."
That's because inherently, you're a racist. You aren't black and can't imagine what it's like to be black and so you want to deny blacks a right to vote just because you can't put yourself in the shoes of a black man owing to your blatant racism.
See how it works now? If you're against voter fraud, you're a racist. That's how we DETECT your racism.
Cracker.
It's not like you'd ever actually admit it's a completely uneccesary bill costing millions for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls. But you and everyone else knows it's true.
Just like I said. It IS about keeping students from voting TWICE. I know you've counted on the shadow voters from college campuses to maintain your electoral advantages and are OUTRAGED that there might be a dent put in it.
Explain to me how students who are smart enough to enroll in a major university are not well-enough equipped to obtain BASIC IDENTIFICATION.
Please explain how poorly equipped these university students must be after graduating from the public schools that you are so proud of that they are completely incapable of performing the simple task of producing identification.
Or how you just KNOW that minorities are too ill-equipped to obtain free state-issued identification.
I would enjoy hearing your racist views explained more fully.
Such a winning argument. Because checking out books that you don't own is just like exercising your consitutional right to vote. It's not like you'd ever actually admit it's a completely uneccesary bill costing millions for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls. But you and everyone else knows it's true.
Garage, I'm black and i don't know anything you've claimedd to be true.
After Indiana passed a similar voter ID bill, the franchise increased by 2%.
As progressive as Wisconsin is, I predict our franchise will increase by 4%.
(For example, Indianapolis only made the playoffs. Green Bay won the Super Bowl.)
gm,
"...concealed guns in restaraunts!"
Hey, WI is just trying to attain the standard set by the liberal stronghold of Seattle, where you not only have concealed (and openly-carried) guns in restaurants and coffee shops, you have them just about everywhere else, too--including the public parts of city, county, and state government offices! And guess what? (No, you won't be able to...) NO PROBLEMS result from this exercise in freedom.
Garage is on to our super secret trick to disenfranchise blacks, there is no getting around it. That he discovered the added feature of disenfranchising students lends credence to his belief in his above average intelligence, not to say our belief in his profound paranoia. Because Garage is a protector of African Americans and students, the two cohorts incapable of tying their shoes without the help of liberals. A combination of vile racism and deep stupidity leads him to cherish his role and to mount his high horse Sanctimony.
One presumes the Republicans may win a few more elections as a result.
Beorn said...
I don't think the Left knows what the word "democracy" really means.
They know, they just hate it.
A combination of vile racism and deep stupidity leads him to cherish his role and to mount his high horse Sanctimony.
Oh fuck off. You don't even know what's in the bill.
Excellent counterpoint, Garage. That's tellin' 'em.
You don't even know what's in the bill.
I'll bite. What's in the bill that's so constitutionally unsettling, Garage? Please cite specific language.
edutcher said...
One presumes the Republicans may win a few more elections as a result.
Which is why garage is so upset about this. Any time a Democrat says "racism", it's really just a code word for "Democrats might lose, and we can't allow that."
"This is a shameful day," Sen. Bob Jauch, D-Poplar, said. "It is the day that democracy died."
I think the Social-Democrat Senators "flea"ing the state was trying to kill democracy. I think Klappanbooger and her recount request and harping on non-existent irregularities are attempts to kill democracy.
and
Alex said...
Wisconsin. Backward. And Beyond!
Home of the progressive movement, now turned into Alabama!
Wisconsin has the worse achievement gap between Black and White students in the country. Further, the incarceration rate for Blacks in Wisconsin is also the highest in the United States. Maybe Wisconsin needs to get off their high horse and hope to become as good as Alabama. Who are the racist? How is that infant mortality rate among Blacks in Milwaukee? Or the abortion rate? Don't you guys like Black babies?
Sweet Home Alabama is way cooler than On Wisconsin, On Wisconsin, the cheese more people choose.
@Milwaukee....
You omitted the co-sleeping death rate in Milwaukee.
Hey, WI is just trying to attain the standard set by the liberal stronghold of Seattle, where you not only have concealed (and openly-carried) guns in restaurants and coffee shops, you have them just about everywhere else, too--including the public parts of city, county, and state government offices!
But don't you know WA state is a wingnut state on part with Alabama! We got lots of redneck hicks here!
Thank goodness this solution has been found.
Now if only the problem had existed.
Which is why garage is so upset about this. Any time a Democrat says "racism", it's really just a code word for "Democrats might lose, and we can't allow that."
I didn't say "racism", you did. Nice projection though on your part, that's exactly what Walker and the WI GOP is fearing. Losing. That's why they've taken away party line voting, because they know a lot of people will be voting for Obama next year. Fitzgerald admitted on Fox News draining union coffers would help tremendously defeating Obama. Union busting and Voter ID helps them, and vitually nobody else.
If they were serious about election integrity and getting people to particiapte, they would be doing a lot of things like expanding DMV accessiblity, education and outreach. But that is the last thing they want. There are 180k senior citizens in Wisc without the forms of ID needed to vote now, and 3 counties in Wisc that don't even have a DMV. Give me a break.
gm,
Darn right I want to keep students from voting if they aren't registered in the district having the vote!
Why oh why is that so hard for you to understand? Oh, right--because you aren't arguing in good faith.
MadisonMan said...
Thank goodness this solution has been found.
Now if only the problem had existed.
Right you are. Fraud is hard to detect, especially if authorities aren't in any big hurry to detect it. On the other had, once the law is in place all those "disenfranchised" voters can step forward, and the law can be adjusted or changed. However, they will have to explain how the law disenfranchised them.
James, why aren't any of those co-sleeping deaths prosecuted? Don't the lives lost count for something?
I don't see what the big deal is.
In Puerto Rico we have government issued Voter ID cards (Picture here: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1KcoRaFt9Js3sNWSM4VSapsGNJAu8i0DbVklIM8Le9ilo8IdDSQ )
and if you show up at the polls without one, you don't get to vote regularly. You do get to cast a ballot that is separated and later adjudicated.
Our polls are also only open about 4 hours on election day and we mark paper ballots with pencils.
Yet we have a better registration rate (80%+) and better turnout (Typically 70-80%) than almost any state. Perhaps any state.
We get 3mm or so paper ballots counted and an unofficial tally announced by 7PM or so on election day. Certification takes a few days longer but I don't recall it ever changing anything.
I've voted in every election since 1976. We have had pretty close to zero allegations of election fraud.
So why are elections so hard in the northern 50?
John Henry
Wait, democracy turns out to be about voting after all? I thought taping up signs in the Capitol and yelling a lot was what democracy looks like. They're not going to require ID for any of that.
This.
One other comment:
PR has almost no absentee ballots. Only students studying outside of PR and military personnel get to vote absentee. With a few exceptions.
John Henry
I've come to the conclusion that the people in Wisconsin are basically idiots.
You have to show ID to get on a plane. Why not to vote?
"There are 180k senior citizens in Wisc without the forms of ID needed to vote now, and 3 counties in Wisc that don't even have a DMV. Give me a break."
Where have all the freedom riders gone? Long time passing.
Why haven't Democrats (and Republicans for that matter) done anything to correct this civil rights violation and de facto disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of Wisconsinites? Surely Gov. Doyle addressed this problem during his term.
In one WI county alone there were 5000 votes where election officials could not locate who the vote belonged to. Yeah - there's a fraud problem and it's being perpetrated by the democrat/leftwinger machine.
Shame on the democrats for their fraud and cheating. Bravo to those who are doing what they can to make the system fair.
"Why do the left rage against...one man, one vote?
Because sometimes it's really hard for them to win elections that way?
You can easily get an ID. The left whining that you cannot - is all bullshit and lies.
Seems like a low threshold.
If you can't figure out how to get an ID, maybe we don't want you voting.
"I've come to the conclusion that the people in Wisconsin are basically idiots."
Because we passed a voter ID law? (Unlike... ahem...California.) C'mon, DBQ, there are LOTS of reasons to think we're idiots, but that ain't one of 'em!
@garage
"...like expanding DMV accessiblity, education and outreach."
DMV accessibility? WTF does that mean? You mean, like free taxi rides to the DMV?
Education and outreach? In other words, progressive indoctrination. More bullshit 'concepts'.
You are a master of the strawman garage. Which street corner do you hang at?
James, why aren't any of those co-sleeping deaths prosecuted? Don't the lives lost count for something?
No.
"I've come to the conclusion that the people in Wisconsin are basically idiots."
Because we passed a voter ID law? (Unlike... ahem...California.) C'mon, DBQ, there are LOTS of reasons to think we're idiots, but that ain't one of 'em!
No, I wasn't clear. My bad.
The voter ID law is an excellent and long overdue law.
The idiocy is the people running around crying "Shame" about anything they disagree with and whining like little babies when they don't get their way.
The other idiocy is the 'normal' people in Wisconsin putting up with these morons instead of giving them a swift kick in the behind.
Why do you put up with this crap?
I know why in California. We are surrounded and outnumbered and it is basically hopeless. We are gonners......you guys still have a chance. Give us some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that isn't the oncoming locomotive that I'm pretty sure it is.
DMV accessibility? WTF does that mean? You mean, like free taxi rides to the DMV?
What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county? You can't vote anymore? Are you going to take a day off of work to drive them to a DMV? The DMV is closed on weekends, too.
In a March 31, 2011 article by Debbie Siegelbaum (Ft. Collins Examiner), it was revealed 12,000 non-citizens registered to vote and as many as 5,000 voted in Colorado during the 2010 election.
The Subcommittee on Elections Chairman (U.S. House of Representatives), Gregg Harper (R-MS) issued a statement saying, “this report is a disturbing wake-up call for election administrators across the country and cause for every state to review their current registration processes and safeguards designed to prevent illegal voting.”
What's racist is the idea that black people are less able to get a basic ID than white people.
What's racist is the idea that black people need special coddling to register to vote.
In today's world, anyone can easily register to vote ahead of time, and obtain some ID. It is ridiculous to claim that such requirements are going to thwart someone.
They do, however, thwart a lot of fraud. Far more fraud than any of these people who vote, but can't get an ID or register to vote.
Where's Garage Mahal to condemn Republicans for not taking voting fraud seriously? There are dozens of convictions of democrats for voter fraud. more than 20 from ACORN, the NAACP recently. I'm sure there are a handful of Republicans who are convicted, but it's relatively very rare.
Either way, I think such people should have their day in court, instead of lies. And all voters deserve elections that are honest, with common sense standards such as ID.
Many voting booths require one to drive a car to get to them. What if someone said that's sexist, since women suck at driving?
What if someone said fitness tests in the Army discriminate against gay people, because they are weaker than straight men?
That's similar to saying blacks can't figure out how to get ID.
"What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county?"
garage,
Please give me the contact information for every elderly person in Wisconsin who meets this description and I will personally drive them to a DMV to pick up their free photo ID.
@garage
"DMV accessibility? WTF does that mean? You mean, like free taxi rides to the DMV?
What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county? You can't vote anymore? Are you going to take a day off of work to drive them to a DMV? The DMV is closed on weekends, too."
If you only see problems and roadblocks, then, you will never see the solution that most of us would immediately point to - assuming the 'elderly' person belongs to a 'family', a 'family' member can take them to the DMV, the doctor, or wherever. Thats what families do, they support each other.
I can hear it now - 'What if they don't have any family?' Well garage, the reason you are who you are is because you believe it is GOVERNMENT that should be all things to all people.
And that is precisely why this country is in the fiscal pickle it is in, because of the faith in government of people like yourself.
Myself, why I don't want government to do ANYTHING for me except provide for defense against foreign invaders, and from people like you that spread bullshit ideas and want to pick my pocket.
This country needs more go-getters and fewer leeches.
The DMV is closed on weekends, too.
that can be fixed. McDonalds is open in the evenings and weekends. I don't see why the DMV can't be too.
@garage
"DMV accessibility? WTF does that mean? You mean, like free taxi rides to the DMV?
What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county? You can't vote anymore? Are you going to take a day off of work to drive them to a DMV? The DMV is closed on weekends, too."
If you only see problems and roadblocks, then, you will never see the solution that most of us would immediately point to - assuming the 'elderly' person belongs to a 'family', a 'family' member can take them to the DMV, the doctor, or wherever. Thats what families do, they support each other.
I can hear it now - 'What if they don't have any family?' Well garage, the reason you are who you are is because you believe it is GOVERNMENT that should be all things to all people.
And that is precisely why this country is in the fiscal pickle it is in, because of the faith in government of people like yourself.
Myself, why I don't want government to do ANYTHING for me except provide for defense against foreign invaders, and from people like you that spread bullshit ideas and want to pick my pocket.
This country needs more go-getters and fewer leeches.
Mexico has a very strict voter ID law.
Are Mexicans also racists?
"That's why they've taken away party line voting"
And this disenfranchises how? You're already in the damn voting booth. It's too much to ask you to fill in the little line for races you want to vote in?
Comrade X :
The DMV is closed on weekends, too.
that can be fixed. McDonalds is open in the evenings and weekends. I don't see why the DMV can't be too.
Years ago, in Colorado, the DMV tried an experiment. They had Saturday hours for about a month. But there was hardly any demand, so they discontinued the experiment. Of course, they didn't tell anybody they were doing that experiment. Funny about that.
Having the DMV open extended hours is going to be a negotiated contract item.
Weren't the Democratic-Socialists the ones who prevented a North Carolina town from having eliminating the partisan primary and party-line ballots? Yes, the excuse was that if there wasn't a Democratic Party designation on the ballot the African-American voters wouldn't know who to vote for.
I can hear it now - 'What if they don't have any family?' Well garage, the reason you are who you are is because you believe it is GOVERNMENT that should be all things to all people.
The "GOVERNMENT" you guys rail so often about is the entity that just passed the most restrictive voter identification system in the nation, and the most burdensome and difficult state in the nation in which to cast a vote.
And this disenfranchises how? You're already in the damn voting booth. It's too much to ask you to fill in the little line for races you want to vote in?
How does this prevent fraud? And why did they put this provision in the bill? Use your head, you know why.
What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county?
Tell them to take the effing high speed super duper choo choo train that our billizions of tax dollars are subsidizing?
"And why did they put this provision in the bill? Use your head, you know why."
I'm not sure my why is the same as your why. I think down ballot politicians are trying to get "free" votes from people who don't know them from Adam. I don't think they deserve those votes.
What your why?
Garage, perhaps the reason for this restrictive bill is that it is undoing damage done in years past. Do you have a time-line of voting laws? The Motor Voter bill came under Clinton. I'm sure things were restrictive before then.
We have come a long ways from the days. One story I recall, the voter registration office was in the back of the jail and only open Tuesday mornings. However, making voter registration too easy is also a problem. Same day registration might also be a problem leading to fraud. Requiring people to register in advance, receive a confirming post card in the mail, and then bring that post card to the polling station seems reasonable.
How many states require registration days in advance?
But then, why does one racial group vote en masse more than others? Is that group racist?
GasBagMahal Whined: "There are 180k senior citizens in Wisc without the forms of ID needed to vote now, and 3 counties in Wisc that don't even have a DMV. Give me a break."
Gee Garage, how come Democrats didn't fix that problem when they controlled the spending? Why didn't Democrats put in a DMV into those counties? Were they negligent?
For you to whine NOW about lack of access to basic governmental services, after years and years and years of Democrat control of these very institutions is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?
Face it, Democrats can't win unless they commit felony voter fraud, and that's why ONLY Democrats are against sensible ID laws. No Tea Party, nor Republicans nor Independents are against these ID laws that protect the integrity of our election process. ONLY Democrats are against protecting the integrity of our election process. Why is that do you think?
(Remember, Kleptoberg somehow managed to win by 200 votes on election night when it was thought by her partisans that's all the fraudulent votes she needed. She only lost because we HID the vote totals from corrupt Democrats so they wouldn't know how many votes they needed to STEAL until it was too late for them to steal it.)
Hasn't hurt hispanic voting in AZ.
Run away Democrats. RUN AWAY!!! It's what you do best. Flee, leave the state of Wisconsin to the 'racists' you hate so much. Idiots.
Garage is right - I should be allowed to cast a ballot and have it count *after* the election. Like 3 months later. Because hauling my ass down to the polls is too big a burden. It disenfranches me.
Garage;
For you
How does this prevent fraud? And why did they put this provision in the bill? Use your head, you know why.
It prevents fraud by requiring that voters provide proof that they are who they say they are.
This is why the provision is in the bill.
garbage, you're arguing that people should be able to vote without identifying themselves.
Ludicrous. And, as usual, you're ventilating about racism. Fuck you. You're a liar and a cheat.
"There are 180k senior citizens in Wisc without the forms of ID needed to vote now, and 3 counties in Wisc that don't even have a DMV. Give me a break."
Garage, you have about 15 months to address this. So your goal is 12-13k per month. Now some of those probably have medical reasons why they can't vote so that will save you some work. Of course this means you'll have to actually leave the basement and this will reduce your postings here. A Win-Win for us all!
I don't see what the big deal is.
The big deal is that a voter ID law makes it harder for Democrats to cheat.
Yes, spatio/temporal party line voting. Extending both down ballot and into the future ad infinitum.
Seriously, I have never understood the justification for party line voting. When I was a kid and ran into the concept for the first time it seemed wrong. It still does.
What your why?
The last time a Republican was elected Senator in Wisconsin was 1980. Wisconsin has historically high turnouts for Presidential election years. Add in no strong Presidential candidate from the Republican side, and you can easily see why they wouldn't want straight party Dem ticket options available to the voter,a nd why they would want to prevent high voter turnout. They changed it for a reason.
@Shouting Thomas: Garage was referring to party line voting.
Trooper York,
Jack Daniels is just about the best cough medicine you can get. That shit tastes great and it really works.
Fixed that for ya'.
"They changed it for a reason."
Yes, a completely valid reason. Party line voting is not defensible.
What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county? You can't vote anymore? Are you going to take a day off of work to drive them to a DMV? The DMV is closed on weekends, too.
The idea that one can get to 70 and still have NO ID-card is beyond belief. Such people should be BANNED from voting out of the idea that total MORONS should not get to vote!
"Garage, you have about 15 months to address this. So your goal is 12-13k per month."
Actually, he only needs to do half that. The hard part will be figuring out which half.
You do not vote for parties. You vote for people. Now, if all of the people you want to vote for are in the same party, fine. It's not going to break your arm to fill in the little arrows.
I guess garage would prefer the European model where you get to vote for 2-3 party lists. Less confusing for grandma.
I don't get this "fuckstick" thing.
A fuckstick would be... a dick!
Which is a good thing, isn't it?
I know that I like my fuckstick.
What do you say to an elderly person that has been voting for decades, that does not drive, and there is no DMV in their county? You can't vote anymore? Are you going to take a day off of work to drive them to a DMV? The DMV is closed on weekends, too.
If they have been voting for years, aren't they still registered? Anybody knowledgeable: How long must one go without voting to be removed from the voter registration list? I think a person has to miss more than one election. That is, I think that if a person voted in one presidential election, they will still be registered for the next presidential election.
Keep making up dumb-ass what-ifs. What if there was a horrendous blizzard on election day? What if it rained really hard and washed out the only bridge in one of those "no-DMV-here" counties? What if the tooth fairy visited the night before, and instead of leaving money pulled all their teeth, and they were in too much pain to go vote? All the aggrieved parties have plenty of time to complain now, before the election. Then they can get registered. Their excuses after the election will sound as stupid as some of the dumb-ass what-ifs posted here.
"I don't get this "fuckstick" thing."
"Fuckstick" may be a Wisconsin thing. And, generally speaking, you do not want to be a fuckstick.
@Milwaukee - You now need to show your ID at the polling place to vote.
I don't get this "aging person" bit.
In my little home town and rural county, there are endless social programs for the elderly... in particular transportation programs. I can't imagine that progressive Wisconsin is different.
Both parties have volunteers to drive people to poll booths, too.
This argument is a red herring.
"Ultimately, this will cost Wisconsin not only our fair and clean elections, ..." said Scot Ross of One Wisconsin Now."
Huh?
"I don't get this "aging person" bit."
I don't know. Garage may have a point. I could see the elderly no longer having a photo ID because they don't need it. Though I have no faith in the number he quotes, considering where he gets his data.
Is the DMV the only source for photo ID cards?
I don't know. Garage may have a point. I could see the elderly no longer having a photo ID because they don't need it.
Well, when an elderly person has lost the judgment needed to drive, he or she is probably close to losing their mental faculties.
I'm sure that the dividing line is difficult to ascertain. But, I suspect that many, or maybe most, of these elderly who have lost the ability to drive are also mentally incompetent.
The ETI report on The Driver License Status of the Voting Age Population in Wisconsin issued in June 2005 examined the following:
Percentages of voting age Wisconsin adults without valid driver's licenses in 2002 compared to the 2000 Census for similar age cohorts. Statewide, 59% of Hispanic females, 55% of African American males, 49% of African American females, and 46% of Hispanic males, compared to 17% of white males and 17% of white females, were without a valid driver's license.
For young adults ages 18-24, 78% of African American males and 66% of African American females in Wisconsin were without a valid driver's license.
The percentage (93%) of college students living in Marquette University, University of Wisconsin-Madison, and University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee residence halls without a driver's license for those addresses.
The percentage (82%) of 18, 19, and 20 year olds without a driver's license at their ZIP code for college student-intensive neighborhoods in Eau Claire, LaCrosse, Madison, Milwaukee, Oshkosh, Platteville, River Falls, Stevens Point, Stout, and Whitewater, Wisconsin.
Residents aged 65 and older without a driver's license or state photo ID (N = 177,399) based on census counts of the population and unduplicated counts of licenses and state IDs. Another estimated 98,247 state residents ages 35 through 64 do not have a driver's license or state photo ID.
Census counts of voting age adults without a vehicle in their household by race and location.
Racial differences in mobility rates (i.e., those changing addresses within the last five years) among renters and homeowners.
link
"Well, when an elderly person has lost the judgment needed to drive, he or she is probably close to losing their mental faculties."
Ah, no. Eyesight, hearing, ability to turn and look over your shoulder, etc. all make it harder to drive safely.
"I don't know. Garage may have a point. I could see the elderly no longer having a photo ID because they don't need it. Though I have no faith in the number he quotes, considering where he gets his data."
Residents aged 65 and older without a driver's license or state photo ID (N = 177,399) based on census counts of the population and unduplicated counts of licenses and state IDs. Another estimated 98,247 state residents ages 35 through 64 do not have a driver's license or state photo ID.
Link
I don't have much sympathy for the able-bodied. Get your ass off the couch and get an ID.
Garage - what prevented all those minorities and elderly from getting ID cards? The evil GOP?
Well, garbage, the solution for them is to get the state photo ID. Wisconsin has a state agency for the aging. Every county in Wisconsin has a committee on aging. All the senior has to do is make a phone call.
You just want to find a way to allow illegals to vote. And, you want students to be able to vote twice.
You're a con artist, garbage.
Good thing the fucksticks are sticking it to you. Let's hope they continue to do so. You're hysterics are music to my ears.
And it's not valid to say that the set = "elderly not having a photo ID" and the set = "elderly not having a photo ID and unable to get one" are one and the same. One is obviously a subset of the other.
garage mahal said...
I didn't say "racism", you did.
garage lies again. And I quote:
It's not like you'd ever actually admit it's a completely uneccesary bill costing millions for the sole reason of keeping students and minorities from voting in the recalls.
No, you didn't use the word "racism" in your accusation of racism. But you made the accusation nonetheless.
So basically what garage is saying is that a certain % of the population is so fucking lazy they can't be arsed to get a friggen photo ID!
Hey, WI is just trying to attain the standard set by the liberal stronghold of Seattle, where you not only have concealed (and openly-carried) guns in restaurants and coffee shops
I've been in Seattle a loooong time, and I've never seen open carry.
There is concealed carry....oh, er...I'm guessing.
There is concealed carry....oh, er...I'm guessing.
You're not guessing, it's the LAW in WA state.
I'd like to know the number of people who legitimatley have a hard time getting an ID due to disability, distance, no family members to help, etc. and we should make provisions to help those people. I haven't read the bill. Is there anything in there about that?
I do not accept this as a reason to not secure the polls.
In Illinois the DMV is open half a day on Saturdays. Of course, to make up for this, the DMV is closed ALL day on Mondays.
My guess is that the Dems know how public education works, and they are making a rational plan to handle 50% adult illiteracy rates which is what currently graduates from the public schools and then heads on to their right to go to college.
Garage said:
The last time a Republican was elected Senator in Wisconsin was 1980.
Uh, I think the last time a Republican was elected Senator in Wisconsin was 2010. Somebody named Johnson who beat an incumbent named Feingold???
I'm starting to hear news reports on this bill. Apparently, it won't be in effect for the recall elections. Apparently, there's a provision for providing IDs free for the poor. The thing about only one hour of debate? Apparently there many hours of debate the previous day.
Just what I'm hearing. Can personally vouch for it.
"Uh, I think the last time a Republican was elected Senator in Wisconsin was 2010."
Heh. Not up there with Bush's house, but pretty good.
So the recall is on July 12th? Can't wait. I'm putting my LIFE savings on all GOP senators not being recalled and all 3 Democrats being recalled. I'm ALL IN, who else is?
@kimsch
I meant in a presidential election year. The last was Bob Kasten in 1980.
I don't know. Garage may have a point. I could see the elderly no longer having a photo ID because they don't need it.
Circular. If you are elderly and plan to vote, you need a photo ID.
If you don't have a photo ID because you think you no longer need it, then you don't intend to vote.
MadAsHell,
You just need to be at the right place at the right time. By my observation, Washington is second only to Virginia in terms of leading the modern open-carry movement.
Heh. Not up there with Bush's house, but pretty good.
Look it up.
@Fen: Yes, they'd have to get one, and some subset of them might find it difficult to do. Might. Maybe. Garage just assumes that all 180,000 are in this group. That number will be much smaller. I say we help them out. No biggie.
wv: nonfro - white people's hair style
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