Althouse: "Quite frankly, nothing short of this professor resigning will be adequate... People send their kids to school to be educated, not indoctrinated..."

५ मे, २०११

"Quite frankly, nothing short of this professor resigning will be adequate... People send their kids to school to be educated, not indoctrinated..."

Is that a principle you'd be willing to enforce across the board? A professor lets his "personal political opinions interfere with classroom teaching" and therefore he should resign?

Would we have any lawprofs left? The lawprofs would all say: It depends upon the meaning of "personal political opinions" and "interfere with classroom teaching." Either these weren't "personal political opinions," or, if they were, they did not "interfere with classroom teaching." And: The notion that you can sanitize all politics out of teaching is delusional. Unless you hire the shallow, dull professors who don't think about the real world at all, you will only push professors to hide their political opinions under a veneer of neutrality, distorting everything.

(I'm not saying that the professor in question — at the linked article — shouldn't be reprimanded in some way, but he should not lose his job. We professors should all be better at using classroom time to give students the best education we can.)

९३ टिप्पण्या:

Superdad म्हणाले...: I don't think that it is possible to completely keep personal politics out of it, but what this guy did crossed the line.

And, for the record, I would say that our host was very good at not showing her personal politics and I had her for Con Law.; ५/५/११, ८:२० AM
Fen म्हणाले...: Is this the same UW professor that was telling students to lie about their residential address so they could be on the petition?; ५/५/११, ८:२० AM
Fred4Pres म्हणाले...: All my professors let their political feelings be known (and they were usually on a scale of liberal from Ann Althouseish-moderate liberal to Bill Ayersish-looney dangerous liberal). But a reprimand is in order for this (at a minimum).; ५/५/११, ८:२१ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: Steineke: "Any hint at a general agreement among professors to actively support a political agenda in the classroom must be brought forward to the taxpayers who fund their university."; ५/५/११, ८:२१ AM
Hagar म्हणाले...: Is this the professor that another article on the internet says encouraged one of the students to go ahead and sign the petition even though she was unsure of whether she lived in the district and was entitled to sign?

That kind of takes it beyond "personal political opinions!"; ५/५/११, ८:२२ AM
Fred4Pres म्हणाले...: Glad to hear Ann kept her own politics out of the classroom.; ५/५/११, ८:२३ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: Yes. He's a POS who should be fired:

"In the tape, recorded during a criminal justice class, Richards can be heard encouraging a female student to sign the recall petition even though she thinks she lives outside the district, and instructing students to sign using their campus address instead of their parents’ home address."; ५/५/११, ८:२४ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: The notion that you can sanitize all politics out of teaching is delusional.

Strawman. I guess I was fortunate enough to have "teachers" that, when politics where invoked, were intelligent enough to take both sides of an issue.

Instead of indocrinating us with their own values.; ५/५/११, ८:२६ AM
The Dude म्हणाले...: I never allowed any discussion of politics when I was teaching. Students would pipe up and I would say this was neither the time nor the place.; ५/५/११, ८:२७ AM
ricpic म्हणाले...: Law schools are lefty indoctrination camps and little else: change the world, not justice is blind.; ५/५/११, ८:२८ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: "Richards, a convicted felon, is holding a tenured professor at UW Oshkosh.

A jury convicted him of conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute more than 1,000 pounds of marijuana.

In 1984, Richards began serving a nine-year sentence. By the time he was released on parole three years later, he had been housed in nine federal prisons."

Lovely.

http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2011/05/professor-stephen-richards-uw-oshkosh.html; ५/५/११, ८:३१ AM
Bryan C म्हणाले...: The professor obviously has access to both the petition and his class roster, which makes it trivial to find out which of his students followed his lead. The type of teacher who spends classroom time browbeating his students into signing and/or lying on a recall petition might well be the same sort who'd react vindictively if you crossed him.

Are we so short on law professors that we have to employ someone who obviously does not understand or respect such boundries?; ५/५/११, ८:३३ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: but he should not lose his job

It really depends, doesn't it? In classes like law or poli-sci, where there are few empirical truths and much is open to interpretation, shouldn't it be the teachers job, primarily, to get the students to think? All the students come with their own ideological baggage whether they realize it or not. It's not the teacher's job to find those that he/she agrees with and promote that point of view. Rather, the best teachers I've had played devil's advocated for the opposing viewpoint regardless of individual student ideology.

In the case of firing for indoctrination, though, there are some fairly easy telltales. If a math prof is structuring his word problems as, for example:

"Two dirty, thieving capitalist oligarchs leave Chicago at 2pm on a train built by exploited workers. If one is traveling at 55mph (because the bourgeoisie won't convert to metric!) and the other travels on another worker-exploited train traveling at 66mph, who will arrive first in Detroit to break up a legal labor strike?"

Clearly, that math prof would be unnecessarily injecting his ideology where none is required.; ५/५/११, ८:३४ AM
Automatic_Wing म्हणाले...: (UW-Oshkosh Chancellor) Wells also said he believes the problem has been corrected after meeting with Richards and several of his students.

Translation: Please be more discreet next time.; ५/५/११, ८:३६ AM
Bob_R म्हणाले...: I think it's easy to argue that encouraging a student to commit fraud or otherwise break the law as part of a class discussion is reason for dismissal. I think that most of my (math) students have no clue about my political opinions, but it would be a lot harder to keep them guessing if I taught criminal justice or law. I think it would be fun to try though. The key would not be a veneer of neutrality, but the ability to mount such convincing arguments from any direction that the students could not tell what I really believed. But I suppose any lawyer who could really do that would be better employed as a litigator than a law prof.; ५/५/११, ८:४० AM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: The moral authority of professors is actually limited to throwing chalk.; ५/५/११, ८:४१ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: I guess I was fortunate enough to have "teachers" that, when politics where invoked, were intelligent enough to take both sides of an issue.

This exactly. All students bring their own ideological baggage to class whether they know it or not. It's not the job of the prof to find those that agree with him/her and show everyone else in the class why that's so. It the prof's job to get students to THINK, regardless of stance on an issue. The best profs play devil's advocate regardless of "side" in order to make as many of their students think more deeply about the topic at hand.

Let's face it. Students, these days, do not arrive at college well versed in critical thinking. That fact alone is really going to damage our country's ability to compete in the upcoming generations. Additional weight from the chains of indoctrination need to be applied.; ५/५/११, ८:४२ AM
Bob_R म्हणाले...: I didn't anticipate Scott M's math prof.; ५/५/११, ८:४२ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: You are right. he should not be fired for letting his "personal political opinions interfere with classroom teaching."

HE SHOULD BE FIRED FOR ENCOURAGING HIS STUDENTS TO BREAK THE LAW.; ५/५/११, ८:४३ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: I suggest young adults in college are beyond the developmental stage where they can be "indoctrinated" merely by a professor's classroom opining, and such hysteria is mere rabble-rousing by panderers to the public's prejudices or by parents who must think of their children as mental cripples who, despite years of family upbringing and influence, they fear are subject to easy influence by whatever is said by instructors who will see their children a few hours a week for a few weeks a year.

Part of the point and value of university education is to be exposed to points of view that differ from one's own. Absent any sign or proof of coercion, professors should be free to say or encourage anything they wish.; ५/५/११, ८:४३ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: Ouch.

* Ladies and Gentlemen, at 8:40 in the first round, winner by technical knockout, Bob the Bruuuuute! *; ५/५/११, ८:४५ AM
Salamandyr म्हणाले...: If he had just been blathering on in the usual fashion about some political hobby horse or other, I might believe that he should just be reprimanded. But actively using classtime attempting to "persuade" students to sign a recall petition? That crosses the line to coercion.; ५/५/११, ८:४६ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: Additional weight from the chains of indoctrination need to be applied.

Need NOT be applied. Crap...you think you're being pithy and all hell breaks loose.; ५/५/११, ८:४६ AM
DaveW म्हणाले...: He was encouraging students to break the law. That's different from letting a political opinion slip in.

Yes, we should be able to set SOME minimum standard. Sheesh.; ५/५/११, ८:४८ AM
Dad29 म्हणाले...: The principle SHOULD be that a prof who advocates election fraud (as he did) should be fired.

And lawprofs who advocate election fraud should ALSO be fired.; ५/५/११, ८:४८ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; ५/५/११, ८:४९ AM
tim maguire म्हणाले...: Depends on your definition of personal politics. I think teachers should be teaching students to think for themselves, not pushing their own narrow minded view of the world onto them. But that plea for intellectual self-sufficiency can just as easily and accurately be characterized as my own narrow view of the world.

Words are very elastic and can be defined to mean almost as much or as little as you need them to be.; ५/५/११, ८:५० AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: I suggest young adults in college are beyond the developmental stage where they can be "indoctrinated" merely by a professor's classroom opining

I suggest you're absolutely wrong. I saw far too many blank slates just dying to sponge up whatever banged around in their heads the loudest. I didn't notice it as much when I was an 18-year-old freshman (due to the booze), but going back as 33-year-old, it was striking.; ५/५/११, ८:५० AM
Fen म्हणाले...: Robert Cook: I suggest young adults in college are beyond the developmental stage where they can be "indoctrinated" merely by a professor's classroom opining

You would be wrong. Cult leaders in particular prey on college students precisely because they are so easily indocrinated. I hd to tangle with one my Freshman year. It scarred me for life, but taught me to build up my spiritual defenses.

Of course, you're a socialist weasel, which suggests you're not simply wrong, you're deliberately lying.

Did I mention that socialism is about slavery and that all slavers deserve to be shot in the streets? Just thought I'd remind you.; ५/५/११, ८:५१ AM
The Dude म्हणाले...: ricpic wrote...

"Law schools are lefty indoctrination camps and little else: change the world, not justice is blind."

Free the Meade!

WV: ressequ - perhaps that mission will be planned.; ५/५/११, ८:५१ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: Is a Criminal Justice Professor a Law Prof? UW-Zero has a law department?; ५/५/११, ८:५२ AM
Bob_R म्हणाले...: Scott M. - I failed to mention that any college math prof teaching a middle school algebra problem should be fired.; ५/५/११, ८:५५ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I used to teach a capstone course titles "Business Government and the Environment" Environment in this context being the social environment.

I used Atlas Shrugged as a text. Main complaint to my boss was that it was too long and they didn't see how they could be expected to read it in only 12 weeks.
(Part 1)

John R Henry; ५/५/११, ८:५८ AM
Cato Renasci म्हणाले...: This guy crossed the line into inadmissible political activity by a state employee. Can his ass.

Ann, you're just too close to this - part of the 'union' of professors.

Freedom of inquiry and freedom to express opinions does not require that the public employer tolerate this behavior.; ५/५/११, ८:५८ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: I failed to mention that any college math prof teaching a middle school algebra problem should be fired.

I forgot to include the business calc the dirty, thieving oligarchs use to determine how much they tip the porter.; ५/५/११, ८:५९ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: (Part 2)

I also used to throw out some "What would John Galt do?" type questions during our weekly discussions of case studies.

My classes were about equally divided between those who hated the books ideas and those who loved them. Almost nobody was neutral. In the first class, I told them that I assigned the book because reading newspapers and other main media they would get only one point of view. This would give them another.

I have no problem with politics in the classroom in certain type courses. I think it can be a good thing.

I think this prof, advocating illegality, went over the line. Way over the line.

John Henry; ५/५/११, ८:५९ AM
DADvocate म्हणाले...: He should resign. Talking about issues and stances is one thing. Actively encouraging and enabling students to do his bidding and participating in a political campaign in the classroom is too far. Indoctriantion or not.

Some of his suggestions were encouraging electin fraud. From The Tatler, "Richards can be heard encouraging a female student to sign the recall petition even though she thinks she lives outside the district, and instructing students to sign using their campus address instead of their parents’ home address.”

Of course, since you're now on the Obama bandwagon, election fraud is par for the course.; ५/५/११, ९:०१ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: To the degree college age adults are "blank slates," so mentally vacant they easily take up any stray beliefs they hear expressed by their professors or classroom peers, I blame the parents.

To the degree college age adults may be willing to listen to divergent points of view, to reassess their own beliefs, inculcated in them by their families and prevailing ideas of the communities in which they were raised, and to come to their own conclusions as to what ideas seem valid to them--in other words, to learn to think for themselves and make their own choices--this is part of the purpose of university education. One can never learn to think for oneself if one is not exposed to ideas foreign to one's experience.; ५/५/११, ९:०२ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: That was wierd. Is anyone else having this problem?

For the past week Blogger has been giving me error messages and just gave me one on the note on Atlas Shrugged I just posted.

It seems like it will not let me post notes over a certain length.

I broke my original note into 2 parts to confirm that this is the problem and both parts went through fine.

Is this happening to anyone else?

What is the max word count Blogger allows?

John Henry; ५/५/११, ९:०३ AM
Kim म्हणाले...: If a professor is encouraging people to break the law by committing fraud, why should he keep his job?; ५/५/११, ९:०७ AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: I blame the parents

Ditto, but you also have to lay quite a bit of blame at the public school system. We can quibble about percentages of blame, but that's where their little butts spend most of their structured learning. The parents have them for fewer hours (minus sleep) during the week and on the weekends. Regardless, whatever we're doing, I heard prof after prof bitching about the quality of incoming students.

In your second paragraph, you're pretty much outlining the best-case student. There are surely a lot of them, but when compared to the rest of the student body, particularly in the first couple terms, I'm betting their in the minority.; ५/५/११, ९:१० AM
J Allen म्हणाले...: I would venture to say that probably the bulk of students who take crim justices classes are either looking to become police officers or something in the in the criminal justice field. So the message this professor is sending is that it’s OK not to be honest if one feels the situation merits it. Is that the kind of police officer or CSI one would want investigating a controversial or high profile case? I know, “Speculative,” or is it?; ५/५/११, ९:११ AM
TosaGuy म्हणाले...: You can listen to the audio here.

He also was lying about the impact of the legislation. He stated that it included police/fire and how that would diminish public safety.

A professor should facilitate the acquisition and expansion of knowledge, not be the gatekeeper. This guy appears to put the zero in UW-Zero.; ५/५/११, ९:११ AM
AllenS म्हणाले...: Tell me, Professor, would you feel the same way if he was pressuring his students against homo marriage?; ५/५/११, ९:१३ AM
TosaGuy म्हणाले...: If I was the student that did this, I would take tremendous pride in the D- I am about to get in this class.; ५/५/११, ९:१४ AM
ricpic म्हणाले...: Cookie loves those divergent lockstep lefty views.; ५/५/११, ९:१४ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: For the past week Blogger has been giving me error messages and just gave me one on the note on Atlas Shrugged I just posted.

Is this happening to anyone else?

Not me. But Google made me send a txt code to my phone to re-activate my account. Said "suspicious activity", which make me wonder it someone was trying to hack it.

The veterans here always copy their more detailed posts before the post, just in case blogger is hungry.; ५/५/११, ९:१५ AM
MayBee म्हणाले...: It's the Wisconsin Idea!; ५/५/११, ९:२२ AM
Abdul Abulbul Amir म्हणाले...: He should be canned, but not for politics. Rather advocating voter fraud should be obvious cause for dismissal.; ५/५/११, ९:२३ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: Robert Cook: I blame the parents.

It so much fun to hear a Sophomoric Socialist lecture about resistance to indoctrination.

Like you weren't brainwashed at 18...; ५/५/११, ९:२७ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Like you weren't brainwashed at 18..."

If I had been, I'd be voting a straight Republican ticket to this day.; ५/५/११, ९:३४ AM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi म्हणाले...: This brave professor, trying to intimidate students into supporting an agenda that benefits... wait for it...
himself! The world surely needs more heroes like this!; ५/५/११, ९:४५ AM
Sofa King म्हणाले...: One can never learn to think for oneself if one is not exposed to ideas foreign to one's experience.

Tell me: where would a student with lefty parents, educated in a public school system that is overwhelmingly leftist, and attending an overwhelmingly leftist university, ever seriously be exposed to ideas "foreign to one's experience?" You speak as though this experience is ONLY valuable if you happen to have conservative ideas.; ५/५/११, १०:१० AM
Dust Bunny Queen म्हणाले...: Is that a principle you'd be willing to enforce? A professor lets his "personal political opinions interfere with classroom teaching" and therefore he should resign?

HELL YES!!

A teacher is there to TEACH not to indoctrinate. The topic may contain some political subject matter and if it does the teacher needs to be scrupulously neutral.....maybe even cruelly neutral.

If not, hit the bricks and find a job where you can preach instead of teach.; ५/५/११, १०:२३ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The lawprofs would all say: It depends upon the meaning of "personal political opinions" and "interfere with classroom teaching."

It depends on what the meaning of "is" is?

That's because law profs all deal in obfuscatory language so they can't be pinned down. They love it. But if you listen long enough, they eventually slip in what they really think.

He should lose his job. You have a vested interest, so your bias shows.; ५/५/११, १०:२८ AM
William म्हणाले...: I would assign more blame to a student who cheated in a theology class than to a student who cheated in a French class. Further: If the student had religious beliefs, I would assign him more blame than if he was an atheist. There are gradations of cynicism.....Whatever this teacher might think he was propogating, he was, in actuality, teaching cynicism and facile expedients. The offense is squared, maybe even cubed, because it occurred under the aegis of a Criminal Law class. If he were teaching Renaissance Italian History or civil engineering, such an offense might be excusable, perhaps even praiseworthy. But he was teaching Criminal Law, and he should have respect not just for the spirit but for the letter of the subject that he professes.....You just know that this guy thinks that John Yoo should not be allowed to teach.; ५/५/११, १०:२८ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: When did law schools begin educating?; ५/५/११, १०:३१ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Yes, he should be fired. His teaching was not in question. He told students to do something political that was illegal and possibly against their own politics. Being a person in authority with their grade in his power, he was wrong.

BTW I saw this doc yesterday, and if this issue interests you, you should see it too.

http://www.lessonplanmovie.com/; ५/५/११, १०:४३ AM
Joe म्हणाले...: He was hired to teach, he's not. He should be fired.

(I had two engineering professors who would spend a good fifteen minutes of each class telling very entertaining stories. They were wasting my time and my tuition. [In one case, the subject--materials science--was so boring, I think we were all relieved, but still...]); ५/५/११, १०:४५ AM
test म्हणाले...: Our only choices are indoctrination and state sponsored political advocacy or shallow dull professors who can't think about the real world?

This is the sort of garbage thinking I expect from idiots like Yglesias and Ezra Klein. Limit the alternatives to the extreme and pretend anyone not supportive of your choice supports the outcome you've distorted beyond reality.

And god forbid someone on the left lose their job. We can completely screw the future careers of everyone in the private sector on a whim. And we can search out those with ideas we disagree with and specifically attempt to get them fired or boycott their businesses. But when someone on the left acts outrageously all of a sudden effecting someone's job is draconian. This is true even though the idiot's financial future wouldn't be effected since he would certainly be offered a sinecure in the NGO/charity political complex.

"It's unconscionable that students not be indoctrinated! Fascist!"; ५/५/११, १०:५३ AM
edutcher म्हणाले...: That's it?

Christ, I had a Theology prof (priest) who advocated for every Left-wing cause you could imagine on the grounds it was God's will (this was the late 60s, of course).

Then, of course, there was the Soc prof who couldn't wait to inform us of the joys of Marxism (same time).

Robert Cook said...

I suggest young adults in college are beyond the developmental stage where they can be "indoctrinated" merely by a professor's classroom opining, and such hysteria is mere rabble-rousing by panderers to the public's prejudices or by parents who must think of their children as mental cripples who, despite years of family upbringing and influence, they fear are subject to easy influence by whatever is said by instructors who will see their children a few hours a week for a few weeks a year.

Back to the Daily Worker. Nobody is buying it.

johnroberthenry said...

That was wierd. Is anyone else having this problem?

For the past week Blogger has been giving me error messages and just gave me one on the note on Atlas Shrugged I just posted.

It seems like it will not let me post notes over a certain length.

I broke my original note into 2 parts to confirm that this is the problem and both parts went through fine.

Is this happening to anyone else?

What is the max word count Blogger allows?

Don't know the exact amount, but it's fairly high. You must be pasting huge amounts of text.

You'll either have to link to the original item or break it up into 2 comments.

As to the error messages, what type were they? I had a similar problem ans I had to create a new Google account.; ५/५/११, १०:५३ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Tell me: where would a student with lefty parents, educated in a public school system that is overwhelmingly leftist, and attending an overwhelmingly leftist university, ever seriously be exposed to ideas 'foreign to one's experience?'"

How many students in this predominantly center/right country are raised with leftist parents?

Where in this country will one find a public school system that is predominantly leftist?

How many universities in this country are predominantly leftist?

I attended college in the middle of the 70s, just after the end of the Viet Nam war, and the political turmoil and student demonstrations of the 60s were literally only 2 or 3 years in the past.

I never encountered any professors espousing political opinions in class. I was a self-identified conservative at the time, as was normal given my family upbringing, and if I had encountered any professors espousing "leftist" ideology, I would certainly have noticed, as it would have been novel to me.

Even in classes where political ideas were discussed as part of the classwork, I never had a professor who did not keep the discussions inclusive of a range of points of view, or who promulgated dogmatism of any flavor.

I think my experience is far more typical than those who insist they or "their kids" are receiving Commie indoctrination in the nation's universities. If anything, given the tenor of those times as opposed to present day, I think it far less likely today that college students will be subject to leftist harangues by their teachers, and they certainly would be far less receptive or interested today than then to such ideas.

In short, the idea that our students are subject to or victims of widespread or persistent leftist pedagogy is a chimera.; ५/५/११, ११:११ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: How many students in this predominantly center/right country are raised with leftist parents?

Where in this country will one find a public school system that is predominantly leftist?

How many universities in this country are predominantly leftist?

40%, everywhere, and all of them except Hillsdale.

The fact that you perceive public schools and universities as anything other than leftists says a great deal about where you fall on the political spectrum, but absolutely nothing about where they fall.; ५/५/११, ११:१९ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: "Quite frankly, nothing short of this professor resigning will be adequate... People send their kids to school to be educated, not indoctrinated..."
Is that a principle you'd be willing to enforce across the board? A professor lets his "personal political opinions interfere with classroom teaching" and therefore he should resign?

One word: YES.; ५/५/११, ११:२६ AM
test म्हणाले...: "In short, the idea that our students are subject to or victims of widespread or persistent leftist pedagogy is a chimera."

Deny, deny, deny, the guiding principle for the guilty. What should we expect the beneficiaries of such indoctrination to say? If students know of the effort it becomes less effective.

Of course students are subjected to indoctrination. Not in every class, those with substance tend to have less. But the indoctrination is significant, consistent, and flows one direction only.; ५/५/११, ११:२९ AM
edutcher म्हणाले...: The Crack Emcee said...

"Quite frankly, nothing short of this professor resigning will be adequate... People send their kids to school to be educated, not indoctrinated..."
Is that a principle you'd be willing to enforce across the board? A professor lets his "personal political opinions interfere with classroom teaching" and therefore he should resign?

One word: YES.

Crack, you are really getting strange.

(I was dumb enough to follow the link); ५/५/११, ११:३३ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Fen,

Cult leaders in particular prey on college students precisely because they are so easily indocrinated. I hd to tangle with one my Freshman year. It scarred me for life, but taught me to build up my spiritual defenses.

If you still think you have or need "spiritual defenses" then you're still vulnerable.

Only your friends will tell you, homie,...; ५/५/११, ११:३३ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Fen,

Google made me send a txt code to my phone to re-activate my account. Said "suspicious activity", which make me wonder it someone was trying to hack it.

Uh-oh, your "spiritual defenses" won't help you now!

ScottM,

Let's face it. Students, these days, do not arrive at college well versed in critical thinking. That fact alone is really going to damage our country's ability to compete in the upcoming generations.

We couldn't agree more (hey, it happens - smile).; ५/५/११, ११:४१ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Robert Cook,

If I had been [indoctrinated], I'd be voting a straight Republican ticket to this day.

Sorry, Cookie, but I can't picture you as anything but a gay Republican.; ५/५/११, ११:४५ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Oligonicella,

The lawprofs would all say: It depends upon the meaning of "personal political opinions" and "interfere with classroom teaching."

It depends on what the meaning of "is" is?

That's because law profs all deal in obfuscatory language so they can't be pinned down. They love it. But if you listen long enough, they eventually slip in what they really think.

I can still remember when my trust of Glenn Reynolds eroded - he said the best part of being a law professor is they can throw ideas out there without caring how they affect people.

The recoil was so strong I suspected I'd need a neck brace.; ५/५/११, ११:५० AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: (hey, it happens - smile)

More often than not, by my reckoning.; ५/५/११, ११:५१ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: ScottM,

True, true, but that's what makes the disagreements so jarring. It's like, "Homie?"

I'm glad either way.; ५/५/११, ११:५७ AM
Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...: I can still remember when my trust of Glenn Reynolds eroded - he said the best part of being a law professor is they can throw ideas out there without caring how they affect people.

The recoil was so strong I suspected I'd need a neck brace.

I think that you may be overreacting here. Some of my best LS classes were where the profs did that. The trick was to not tie it to grades and be non-judgmental about it. For example, one of my most leftist profs pushed the anti-Roe v. Wade point of view in his classes, though he would never support that in real life. It helped developing the sort of objectivity that lawyers do need in their jobs (and, many, thanks to the heavily liberal tilt of our university system these days, don't have).

The difference is between throwing out ideas and letting the students run with them, and forcing the students to conform to a given ideology, and, esp. to do well in the class.

Compounding it this time, the prof was apparently advocating for illegal behavior, doing so to affect the election of politicians who would be overseeing his university, and doing so while being paid by the taxpayers.

He may or may not get fired, but if he doesn't, the school should rightfully expect that it come under increased oversight, and, possible incur funding cuts.; ५/५/११, १२:०५ PM
Ken म्हणाले...: I must disagree in this case. The professor urged his students to participate in vote fraud. He should be fired and prosecuted.

There is no hope that personal opinions will not be taught as fact. There is no way to prevent politics in the classroom. But there is a way to keep educators from engaging in illegal activities. Undermining honest elections is not in any way acceptable.; ५/५/११, १२:१५ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "The fact that you perceive public schools and universities as anything other than leftists says a great deal about where you fall on the political spectrum, but absolutely nothing about where they fall."

And of course I assert the reverse: perception of rampant leftist ideology today in our educational systems (or in our resolutely middle-right mainstream media) says more about the beholders than it does about any objective reality in this world.; ५/५/११, १२:२० PM
test म्हणाले...: "And of course I assert the reverse"

Yes, but you're a nut whose opinion carries no weight.; ५/५/११, १२:२७ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Yes, but you're a nut whose opinion carries no weight."

To the contrary, I'm completely sane, and, even more, I'm right.; ५/५/११, १२:४२ PM
test म्हणाले...: Loons always think they're the sane ones.; ५/५/११, १२:५१ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Robert Cook,

I'm completely sane, and, even more, I'm right.

ROTFLMAO!!!; ५/५/११, १:३० PM
hombre म्हणाले...: And, of course, there is nothing implicitly coercive about the guy who hands out the grades inviting his students to sign a recall petition.

This guy not only pollutes the classroom, he pollutes the political process.

By all means, let's have this the standard of conduct for law profs. LOL; ५/५/११, १:५९ PM
Fen म्हणाले...: Crack: If you still think you have or need "spiritual defenses" then you're still vulnerable.

Uh-oh, your "spiritual defenses" won't help you now!

You misunderstand. I think you may be knee-jerking because you think I'm being New-Agey.

When I talk about "spiritual defenses" I'm not talking about some mystic shield. The Cult leader was brain-fucking people. He was harvesting co-eds to be his many wives on a Davidian-type compound. I went against him to save a girl I loved and got snared because I was naive. My salvation was to go deep into philosophy and religion (C. S. Lewis). For example, as a sheltered 18 year old, realizing that a true "Messiah" wouldn't manipulate people into believing in him (ie. the Christian concept of Free Will).

Its similar to the failings of athiests who fall prey to deifying a man because they haven't developed a resistance to the tools he uses.

Perhaps I should have used a more precise term than "spiritual defense".; ५/५/११, ४:०७ PM
Fen म्हणाले...: I used the term because he blindsided me on a spiritual level, an attack I was completely unprepared to defend against.; ५/५/११, ४:१८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Fen, you should see Lesson Plan. The doc is about one such experience and how vulnerable we all are. The banality of evil...; ५/५/११, ४:१८ PM
Michael म्हणाले...: RC: "perception of rampant leftist ideology today in our educational systems (or in our resolutely middle-right mainstream media) says more about the beholders than it does about any objective reality in this world."

Actually aren't most academics self identified lefties? It is in their interest to do so, but still there you have it.

It really doesn't matter much anyway since liberal educations in the classical sense are now useless. We are only interested in entertainment and our elections are devolving into something akin to dancing with the stars. Our culture is vanishing fast with the support of a leftist ideology that views all judgment as purely personal and hostile to the judged. Alas, we had it coming.; ५/५/११, ५:०२ PM
mariner म्हणाले...: http://www.lessonplanmovie.com/

And after you've checked that out, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFC1qFCgyA; ५/५/११, ५:०६ PM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: Is that a principle you'd be willing to enforce across the board? A professor lets his "personal political opinions interfere with classroom teaching" and therefore he should resign?

As a matter of fact, yes.; ५/५/११, ८:५९ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Actually aren't most academics self identified lefties?"

Well, that's certainly a popularly accepted meme, especially among those who assume a leftist perspective is, by definition, pernicious...but is it true? I don't know, and even it it were, that's not the question to ask. The question is: do academics of a leftist bent bring their personal views into their classrooms? If some do, how many do, and in what fashion? In such cases where such personal perspectives may be aired in class, are they presented for debate, or as an alternative view to the predominantly center or right perspective that holds sway in most other areas of American life, or dogmatically imposed upon the students?

I will reiterate my previously stated opinion that the "problem" of rampant leftist ideology delivered wholesale in college classrooms is largely or wholly imaginary.; ५/५/११, १०:०० PM
Fen म्हणाले...: I will reiterate my previously stated opinion that the "problem" of rampant leftist ideology delivered wholesale in college classrooms is largely or wholly imaginary.

And there's no Left-wing bias in the MSM

And you can keep your health care provider

And Obama is going to be our first post-racial post-partisan president.

I will reiterate my previously stated opinion that you have been brainwashed by the Left and without the mental capacity to discuss this topic without endangering the rest of us (ie death from hysterical laughter).; ५/५/११, १०:११ PM
MDIJim म्हणाले...: It is one thing for the professor to express the opinion that if he, the professor, lived in the senator's district, he, the professor, would sign the petition. It is beyond the pale to encourage a student to do so.

Does Wisconsin have a "Hatch Act?" As a manager in state government I received a memo before every election reminding me that it was against the law to encourage my subordinates to vote for or against any candidate for office. If Wisconsin does have such an act, should it not apply to professors at state institutions?

There may not be a reason to fire this turkey for one offense, especially if the senator in question is satisfied, but perhaps he should be assigned to teaching something else.; ६/५/११, ५:१७ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; ६/५/११, ६:३९ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "And there's no Left-wing bias in the MSM."

Not any significant amount, certainly not as much as there is a right wing bias.

"And you can keep your health care provider."

Well...IF you can keep paying your insurance premiums, or IF can stay employed in a job that offers health insurance, or IF your insurer doesn't find a way to expel you from their rolls because you had a bad cold once and thus you constitute a "bad risk" guilty of concealing a preexisting condition...sure, no problem.; ६/५/११, ७:१० AM
Scott M म्हणाले...: "And there's no Left-wing bias in the MSM."

Not any signifiant amount, certainly not as much as there is a right wing bias.

What color is the clear sky in your world, Cook? A number of separate, unrelated studies have found not only left-leaning bias in published content, but a majority of left-leaning personnel staffing the big three and the big cable outlets.; ६/५/११, ७:३४ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "A number of separate, unrelated studies have found not only left-leaning bias in published content, but a majority of left-leaning personnel staffing the big three and the big cable outlets."

Where are the data or cites for these studies?; ६/५/११, ८:३० AM