... but the successful mission to kill bin Laden hits it hard.
(Review the history of Operation Eagle Claw if you don't get my point.)
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३७ टिप्पण्या:
I don't think the Carter comparisons are with regard to his use of the military so no, this doesn't really hit anything.
Interestingly, each mission lost at least one helicopter.
I agree with Hoosier. The comparison is to Carter's and Obama's domestic policies.
Yeah, you've got to give Obama some credit here.
This is a big win for him.
(The Crypto Jew)
The Helo failure was particularly significant. In 1979, the US was UNABLE to mount a successful Special Operation…30 years later, there is helo failure, but nonetheless “Mission Accomplished.” Obviously Eagle Claw and this operation were significantly different in many details but having lived thru the fiasco of Desert One (as an civilian) I had to relish, that something that led to US embarrassment 30 years ago, was merely an impediment today.
Obama is like Carter is economic not military. Obama has always been good on terror. He's Mr. Drone.
If anything a Mr. Feckless on the invervention side.
There's a huge media spin apparently saying that the right is proven wrong on what the right has never said.
It's the budget, not the war on terror.
Obama is a lying disaster.
Did Obama inherit an awesome military from Bush, or what?
Really, has Obama done anything to make the military more effective?
No.
Carter left Reagan with a military that needed to be rebuilt, and there is great worry that Obama wants Panetta to leave a similar problem.
I'm glad Obama's administration is capable of handling the ordering of a mission like this. I'm sure that's not as easy as it sounds (honestly, it sounds pretty easy).
I also think it's worth noting that Obama inherited Gitmo, and the intel we got from the detainees there. Without that, Osama Bin Laden would be alive right now.
It's certainly true that Obama has been a much better war president than I expected, and better than Carter of course. Let's look carefully at what went well, and why.
I guess part of this story is that Obama has already gone to some trouble to take credit for this. His speech even seems designed to exclude credit where owed. So maybe we don't need to pat Obama on the back if he's already doing so for us.
Oh, so we're no longer $14 trillion in debt and gasoline is no longer $4 a gallon? Happy days are here again!
My father was in Delta at the time and we were actually on block leave when that mission was activated, else he would have gone. Knowing quite a bit about that cluster, I don't see how this changes the Carter/Obama "meme" much.
Remember that the Carter story, and the soon-after, was all analog, 3-network news, etc. This story did not involve live American hostages and it's occurring in the age of digital info overload. We'll be moving on to the latest American Idol scandal soon enough.
This isn't to say this wasn't a great job by our guys and that President Obama doesn't get credit for waving off an airstrike in favor of up-close confirmation, but to the point of the thread, the general malaise the country is experiencing won't be alleviated much by Osama's death.
Yes Obama, you're not as bad as Carter on the foreign policy front. Grats...
The USA looks much mightier today than it looked under Carter, and I do really appreciate that Obama is not afraid to flex that muscle.
If anything, he flexes it all the time. Air power in Libya and Pakistan seem used often. And honestly, good for him.
Very few countries in the world, all of them Western, could have pulled off an operation like this. No one will ever again think they can get away with anything they do to us. Hopefully.
Thank you, President Obama.
Well, it can only be good if Obama manages somehow, to be a better President than Carter. This may help although really, he gave an order that was pretty easy to give, and the hard work was done by someone else. I note when discussing Eagle Claw, Carter seemed most interested in the possibility of the Marines using "non-lethal" weapons. Not hard to improve upon that.
I am glad he is not like Carter on this point.
but, but, but Carter/Clinton.
Indeed, after (8) years of cheney/bush, AA is rehashing ancient history, eh. Shocking!
I watched Black Swan last night. Is that an alagory for Osama and Obama?
Kidding.
I am glad Osama is dead. Good for Obama to get to do it on his watch.
Nah, Carter would have fucked this up too.
WV: turbacki
This is a big win for him.
It's a big win for American and freedom, and against middle-ages-based thuggery. Obama is fortunate enough to be leading the US when it happens.
Conservatives shouldn't be too upset that Obama is straining to take as much credit as possible for this.
That is a good thing, in the long run. We had a president who did not fight our enemies quite as well (Clinton), and I wish he had seen just how good the politics are in defending our country. Obama getting some political benefit from doing his duty is an acceptable incentive deal.
In the long run, it looks like it will be a very long time before the left gets the anti war president they want so badly. And it seems like the conservatives will always win a president that at least tries to fight.
With Iran or Syria, no Obama isn't really doing a good job, but Obama has been striking terrorists during his entire administration. The only real losers here are the idiots who thought he was an antiwar president and the terrorists.
Good news and a much needed victory for Obama.
But, on the other hand, yesterday I spent $38 to fill up my '97 Honda Civic.
So, maybe a "Obama is like George HW" tag is appropriate.
Obama Comes A Croppa
Obama kills Osama, boom boom boom.
Obama kills Osama, boom boom boom.
Top a' the world, Ma, top a' the world.
Ma?...Ma?...MA?!?!
WHAAAA.....
Obama is NOT like Carter in military matters. Carter actually began the US military buildup that Reagan backed and was given the credit for, but Obama has begun the US military build down....along with a US mining and oil development build down.
the successful mission to kill bin Laden hits it hard
He may have tried to assist the coup against the legitimate government of Honduras, repeatedly snubbed the heads of government and state of our closest ally, groveled to Russia in ways both inept (the mistranslated "reset" button) and sinister (announcing the cancellation of the missile defense shield - which was to be based in Poland - on the anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland), ignored the democratic uprisings in Iran and Syria, abandoned a nominally pro-American Arab dictator in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and failed to use his legendary charisma to gather even such trinkets as an Olympics or a World Cup, never mind such truly awful prizes as a global carbon treaty -
-but he sure did have the SEALs kill the hell out of that son of a bitch in Pakistan.
Speaking of whom, has Eric Holder announced whether he's pressing charges against those guys yet?
Its not about comparing this one operation to the operation in Iran 30 years ago. No doubt this will help Obama in the short run but this issue was never any part of my evaluation of Obama.
Don't think so. Sounds like this was in the pipeline so long, back into Dubya's Administration, that the intel and military types were running it most of the time.
Carter micromanaged Eagle Claw wire to wire.
Little Zero's foreign policy reset is Ol' Bucketmouth all the way down the line and we'll pay for it in the same way.
The reel of Obama's triumphs at the Democratic Convention will be quite brief. There's this and, uh, his endorsement of vegatables. But, nonetheless, this is a grand victory and three cheers for Obama....Conservatives here should dollop glory for this successful mission from the same ladle that they would have used to dollop disgrace had it failed. Obama got this right.
Well I will say that when they heard the report of the chopper having mechanical problems and being forced to land inside the compound, I'll bet my paycheck there was a lot of "Oh dear God in Heaven please no" being muttered in the situation room.
No, Jimmy had to rescue over 400 hostages. Obama had to just kill one guy. That's a big difference.
Carter, and Obama, still had other problems.
Like $5 buck a gallon gas, unemployment, HUGE debt, Libya (and the murder of kids), etc...
No Obama's poll numbers will get a 10 second boost and then go back down even farther.
Gas prices will continue to rise, food prices rise, people will still be out of work......and Osama will still be dead.
The elation we feel now will be replaced by the drudgery of everyday life and the decisions on whether we can afford milk and gasoline or either.
Obama will have a brief surge in popularity among some people for being associated with the Military's success, but unless the economy has a more than brief surge of recovery, the Carter=Obama meme will stick.
What DBQ said. That's why I think this is a dead cat bounce for Little Zero.
What's more relevant in your life, the death of somebody rendered irrelevant 8 years ago (how long since we heard from AQ?) or $5 a gallon gasoline?
Oh well, the Lefties are wanking themselves silly today - situation normal.
I get your point, but Carter had his foreign policy successes too. The most notable was obviously the Camp David Accords, which occurred at just a slightly earlier point in his Presidency. They didn't help him get re-elected, because 1979-1980 was such a disaster both domestically and internationally. The domestic and international situations are extremely fluid and uncertain now, as well. Things could easily turn very ugly very quickly, and if so the euphoria over bin Laden finally assuming room temperature would mean little in 2012.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
wv - trust ????
Patrick, ha ha, yes I remember JC's "non-lethal weapons". What everyone has said, with JC it was the stagflation and the misery index. O cannot shake that off. Would have been better for him if somehow they could have made this happen in October 2012. It is a long way from now to October 2012 and because they dumped OBL's carcas into the sea, the "deather" faction will increase. By now AQ is probably splicing together OBL's old tapes to produce one that says that the crusaders got the wrong guy, or even better, OBL has risen from the dead.
Still, O deserves beaucoup credit for continuing W's policies where it matters. If Holder was POTUS we would not have done this because we got the name of OBL's courier through torture and you cannot act on evidence obtained in that way.
O will be hard to beat. He says things that encourage his base and enrage right wing bloggers, but what the people see is a guy who is not afraid to throw his liberal supporters under the bus if they are going to cost him votes.
I disagree. Even with UBL pushing up the proverbial daisies, if this Constitutional Republic survives the Obama Experiment, he will still have but one shining accomplishment:
Having made Jimmy Carter look like Pericles of Athens by comparison.
In a week or so, the euphoria of a dead terrorist scumbag will wear off, and people will remember that they still don't have jobs, they're losing their homes, the price of the necessities continues to rise, and the Economic Plan put forth by Obama is simply: More of the Same, now with 20% More Same!
Apologies: I meant 200% More Same.
Carter did order the mission to get the hostages out. So there is no difference between Carter and Obama here. However, we'll never know whether Obama would abort the operation in the similar circumstances, so any difference, or likeness here is purelly speculative, with only one certainty being the fact that Obama and military were much more lucky. Indeed, the fact that there were no loses to the American force is the second best thing about this operation.
I'm not a military person, so I would like to hear the experts on which of the missions involved more risk of going wrong.
What people miss about President Obama is that he is not a socialist, he's a Chicago pol. In dim light one can be mistaken for another, but one is not at all like the other.
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