2 women at the protest march yesterday chant "April 5, keep hope alive, vote Kloppenburg":
There's an election coming up, and JoAnne Kloppenburg is the challenger to the incumbent David Prosser. There are many Kloppenburg signs at the march and, as I've noted before, although it's supposed to be a nonpartisan election, some people try to make it very political. I've seen many people out at the protests stressing the need to make Kloppenburg a Supreme Court Justice so that she can vote against the GOP budget repair bill and do other things that will help the party that lost the elections last fall get something back in the judicial process.
"April 5, keep hope alive, vote Kloppenburg"... I'm sorry but I find that chant quite appalling. And I hope Kloppenburg does too.
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"I'm sorry but I find that chant quite appalling. And I hope Kloppenburg does too."
I hope she does too. But who actually thinks she does?
From your previous post: Well, it's not a referendum on Scott Walker, and anyone who says it is either wants to confuse people or to undermine the role of the judiciary in a democracy.
The protesters have been trying to undermine democracy the entire time. There is no right for public employees to have unions or we would have them at the federal level. It's not about democracy because democracy spoke in the last election and the protesters don't like the result. It's not about freedom because the protesters care nothing about the freedom of the taxpayers to do with their money as they choose.
It's all about being on the gravy train.
Unfortunately, it seems that the only way to try to unseat an incumbent in Wisconsin is to make people think it's a choice between liberal and conservative. But when a conservative does it -- as Gableman did last time -- he tends to make the liberal incumbent seem unjudicial. I don't think it's possible to win in Wisconsin by saying that you yourself are going to be political. Now, I think Kloppenburg wants to make people feel that Prosser is political -- that he'll uphold legislation from the Republicans. But that's normal judicial restraint. If her message is, I will get in there and strike down legislation because I wish the Republicans weren't in power -- ie, "Keep hope alive" -- the voters will -- unless we've gone mad -- be appalled.
(my comment is @ALH.)
Her campaign facebook page has pretty much been taken over by anti-Walker folks.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/JoAnne-Kloppenburg-for-Wisconsin-Supreme-Court/166626243374359?ref=ts
Walker is finished. And thanks to Walker, Obama is going to winin a walk in 2012. Walker and the Wisconsin Repbulicans have just made sure that Obama wll be president for the next six years.
lucid, why don't you just state your opinion about the merits of the legislation.
This constant refrain of yours that you can see into the future is bullshit.
In fact, just about everything you write is bullshit.
Primary election results
David Prosser 225,256 (55%)
JoAnne Kloppenburg 102,040 (25%)
Marla Stephens 43,997 (11%)
how does one not politicize an election?
Prosser is fairly popular. In the 4-way primary, Prosser received 55% of the vote, Kloppenberg came in second with 25%.
According to Fox news, 100,000 people turned out to protest against Walker and the Wisconsin Republicans yesterday.
Everything political is now different in Wisconsin, and it is going to stay that way for many years to come.
Walker's bill is the Republican Obamacare.
You can't do things to American citizens that people feel this strongly against.
Wisconsin now has a governor who can't walk down the street or even appear in public. Americans don't want that in their public officials.
Walker is finished. And thanks to Walker, Obama is going to win in a walk in 2012. Walker and the Wisconsin Repbulicans have just made sure that Obama wll be president for the next six years.
Moreover, Paul Ryan and the Republican budget intiatives at the federal level are getting tarred with the Walker brush.
The Republicans have just done what it took Nancy Pelosi a full year to do--completely fuck up their electoral victory.
Indeed. All words with "poli" in them (except Polident) refers to the old Greek word for city-state and thus to the government of the community.
To talk about an election for anything being "non-political" is nonsense.
Big government corrupts everything.
It started when Gore decided to fight the election results.
My election is more important than elections being final.
Elections being final was the unspoken agreement that made elections work.
Even if you lose on a mistake, it's close so the voters don't as an aggregate care and the finality of the election is the key thing.
So now every function of every branch is in play. The functioning structure is gone.
"...the voters will -- unless we've gone mad -- be appalled."
It seems pretty clear, just from the evidence of your comment pages, that at least some of your voters have, in fact, gone mad. The only question is, "How many?"
Maybe Lucid can tell us the outcome of the Prosser/Kloppenburg race.
Walker is finished. And thanks to Walker, Obama is going to win in a walk in 2012. Walker and the Wisconsin Repbulicans have just made sure that Obama wll be president for the next six years.
In the fullness of time we'll get to see with our own eyes how it all plays out, vapid emanations notwithstanding.
@lucid
Walker's law is the Republican Obamacare.
Not so. Not a good analogy at all.
Even if it turns out that many or most do not like Walker's actions, and I think that's still TBD, that he curtailed union collective bargaining privileges simply doesn't affect many folks. Obamacare, on the other hand, affects everyone.
Your repetition of this meme, though, reminds of the guy who can't get off his "nine course meal" w/ K street lobbyist. Ill-considered and irrelevant except in the narrowest possible sense.
"Your repetition of this meme"
You argue with the talking points you're issued, not the talking points you want to have been issued.
Albuquerque has "non-partisan" City elections. This is merely a device to get around the Hatch Act and the NM little Hatch Act, so that Federal, State, and local gov't employees can run for City offices.
The system is reinforced by the elective offices being very low pay, so that the successful candidates need to be either independently wealthy, or be employed by entities such as the national laboratories, the university, APS, etc., that are willing to pay them a full salary while they are working virtually full time on City business.
And yes, when a candidate announces for one of these "non-political" positions, the first thing the Abq. Journal does is send a reporter over to the county clerk's office to check his or her political registration and advertises same in the next day's paper.
This system is as phony as it can be.
Kloppenburg has already endorsed such sentiments. I forget what her words were exactly but they weren't anything to do with faithfully executing the law as written. And there is really no basis to challenge the law just passed anyway. Even if one were ginned up and the court stacked with bought votes the pubbies would just pass it again. There is really no downside to doing so.
The last poll I saw showed that by 2 to 1 independents across the nation are not impressed with how the left has acted at all. Eventually Wisconsonites will realize they have been had. These little misinformation bubbles like the media is trying to maintain in Wisconsin have a way of popping in the internet age.
BTW, the cops are already trying to intimidate local businesses according to what I have read. This what all of these people wanted. Let's see how much they enjoy it once the thug tactics are turned on them. Because that is exactly what will happen.
whaterver. how many of those professional "protesters" are bussed in from out of state?
The number of semi-professional leftist activists showing up at a protest in Madison is not a very meaningful indication of what the rest of the state is thinking. That old phrase 'silent majority' is pretty appropriate.
I think that a lot of the people in the middle just don't like conflict, and the perceived instigator of the conflict is going to take the heat. In the last few weeks the perceived instigator has been Scott Walker. Now that the important parts of the bill have been passed, the perceived instigator role will switch to the other side.
Time will tell...
1. I'm sorry but I find that chant quite appalling. And I hope Kloppenburg does too.
Based on her "ten-second pause" described in your previous post, I doubt that very much.
2. Apparently monetary donations are forbidden in WI judicial elections, but volunteer support is okay. Hopefully the GOP and the Tea Party are doing more than tsk-tsking while Prosser is getting besieged.
Wisconsin now has a governor who can't walk down the street or even appear in public.
If true, why is that? Is it because of the incivility and threat of violence and other tactics familiar to fascist liberals? That's the only reasons I can think of.
voter ID will not yet be in place for this election.
Your bias shows throughout article..calling those opposed ,"the protesters" throughout when they are really "citizens" who feel they'be been lied to.
dm said...
Your bias shows throughout article..calling those opposed ,"the protesters" throughout when they are really "citizens" who feel they'be been lied to.
I do not know why they think they have been lied to. They are not very aware, if they actually think that is the case given none of this was a secret.
Of course the election will be tainted by either direct or indirect appeals to expected policy results. Everything the Left touches is ultimately contaminated then destroyed. This will not end well. See Igor Panarin.
I find that chant quite appalling. And I hope Kloppenburg does too.
Safe to assume she doesn't.
Apparently, one commenter here saw Walker taking a stroll in a public park Thursday, so, with the imported gorillas away, it's not unsafe for him.
PS Things like this are why I think Federal judges as well as Congressmen should be term-limited.
(OT, I know...)
PPS lucid is America's Politico without the Baghdad Bob beret.
@Lucid: "According to Fox news, 100,000 people turned out to protest against Walker and the Wisconsin Republicans yesterday."
plus
@RealAmerican: "whaterver. how many of those professional "protesters" are bussed in from out of state?"
plus
@Tosaguy: "voter ID will not yet be in place for this election."
equals
a fraudulent Kloppenburg win. The thug union left will spare no expense. Who will stop them? Holder's DOJ?
Okay. The election day on April 5th ... gets what kind of turnout?
Can suddenly lots of votes appear that the union drops off to get counted?
Isn't there a rule that incumbents have the advantage? Of course, I'm just guessing.
Walker is finished, says lucid.
Aren't there more than 3 1/2 years until the next election, with a couple of declining budget deficits Walker can point to as the fruits of his labors?
Hey, lucid, were you one of the guys writing off the GOP as 'finished' in mid-November, 2008?
You're undoubtedly counting on union finances being no worse three years from now than they are now. Good luck with that. They went heavily into debt to ensure Obama's win in '08, and their means of acquiring cash in WI just took a massive hit.
Elections have consequences. Only in the Democrat Party does a group of people who ran from professional responsibility get treated as heroes. To most of the rest of us they are cowards.
You know, a newspaper once ran the headline that Mark Twain was dead. But he wasn't.
The news, said Twain, was a bit premature.
As to all the shouting that Walker is out, and obama WINS, no less, in 2012 ... May I ask ... what other predictions are you making? Nothing comes true just because you make a prediction, ya know?
As far as the general politics here, the Republican meme should be "The Democrats want you to be outraged that state workers have to contribute something to the pension system that lets them retire at 50 with full medical and more money than they got when working. It's the only thing you should NOT be outraged about."
The fact is Prosser is the corporate candidate just like Walker was. This is not about conservatives and liberals this is about corporations against the people, all people. Kloppenburg is very short on campaign funds because she isn't getting the large corporate donations, that in itself should be enough reason to vote for her.
"The Democrats want you to be outraged that state workers have to contribute something to the pension system that lets them retire at 50 with full medical and more money than they got when working. It's the only thing you should NOT be outraged about."
This is another completely false talking point. The state workers contribute 100 hundred cents for every 100 hundred cents that gets put into their pension. They have a negotiated wage and choose to have some of it deferred into a pension, you caseym54 are not paying for their pension so get off it already.
The governor was elected to govern the dem Senate was elected to run away. What you see in Wisconsin is the unbridled raw ugliness of Illinois politics, the National democrat party in its unvarnished arrogance and the greedy Madison maggots. Wait til the fire fighters discover the teachers stole their raises.
Cindy wrote:
This is another completely false talking point. The state workers contribute 100 hundred cents for every 100 hundred cents that gets put into their pension. They have a negotiated wage and choose to have some of it deferred into a pension, you caseym54 are not paying for their pension so get off it already.
Oh? So, when we talk about how much a teacher gets paid, do we include all the cost of the pension, since that's the teacher's money?
No?
Does the teacher pay income tax on that money (the way I pay income tax on the money that is taken from me for "Social Security"?
No?
Then you're full of crap, Cindy.
@Cindy. Your talking point might actually be relevant, except for that minor sticky point that the unions have negotiated a defined benefit plan, not a defined contribution plan (like those of us with 401K, 403b plans receive.)
So the union members really do not contribute 100% to their benefits. Taxpayers do. And short-sighted politicians have promised too much -- they didn't have to worry about the consequences. Or they didn't understand economics.
It would be nice if unions received a matching contribution to a retirement plan. I would be willing to match $1/$2 up to 6% of employee contribution (so the taxpayer would be on the hook for 3%).
Wages + benefits in the Wisconsin public sector seem problematic.
"Aren't there more than 3 1/2 years until the next election, with a couple of declining budget deficits Walker can point to as the fruits of his labors?"
Unless you live in Wisconsin, a state with a bunch of direct democracy reforms governing their politics(ie - recalls.)
This is Obamacare in Wisconsin. Expect a similar response in the state.
Patrick Ruffini (campaign director for the Republican National Committee) His tweet in response to Wisconsin:
"If only there were precedent for the upper chamber monkeying around with the fiscal part of a bill to bypass the need for supermajority... "
Scott Walker: starring in Total Recall.
Cindy said...The fact is Prosser is the corporate candidate just like Walker was. This is not about conservatives and liberals this is about corporations against the people, all people. Kloppenburg is very short on campaign funds because she isn't getting the large corporate donations, that in itself should be enough reason to vote for her.
sigh As my good deed for the day:
Incumbent Justice David Prosser and challenge JoAnne Kloppenburg, who are competing for election to a seat on the state Supreme Court, both are accepting public financing under the new law.
DEMOCRACY SUCKS!
Here's what Kloppenburg wrote a few weeks ago, before the budget bill was introduced:
"David Prosser’s campaign says he is a “conservative justice” who will be a “complement” to the work of the Republican Legislature and governor. Marla Stephens says she’ll be an “advocate” on the court, and she is not limiting fundraising or special-interest money. She’s running a status quo campaign: raising and spending as much as possible. Joel Winnig says he’ll help change laws.
A justice should not legislate, advocate or support the political agendas of the other branches of government. And if candidates, given the opportunity to limit fundraising and special-interest contributions, refuse, how will we ever have a better system?
As a justice, I will decide each case before me by applying the law to the facts of that case. I will take each case as it comes, without prejudging what outcome suits any political party. I will remember that cases begin with people and my decisions have far-reaching effects. I will be respectful, independent, impartial and committed to the rule of law."
It makes sense that Prosser would support the Republican agenda. He was actually a Republican state assembly rep for many years! And I've heard the manufacturer's PAC has given him millions of dollars already in anticipation of a difficult campaign.
The fact is that the protesters aren't politicizing the Supreme Court -- it is already politicized. Justices Prosser, Ziegler, Roggensack and Gableman almost always vote on the right-wing side of an issue, and Justices Crooks and Bradley (and Chief Justice Abrahamson) almost always vote on the left side. If there is a vote on the budget bill's legality and there is any conceivable argument that it's legal, the right-leaning justices, including Prosser, will go for it. So a vote for Kloppenburg (whose politics aren't clear, but who is supported by Democrats) is really like a vote against Walker.
Besides that, the conservatives have a majority in the Court now, and this makes a difference for a lot of important issues. So even if it doesn't directly affect Walker's plans, elecing Kloppenburg will provide some balance against the current Republican domination of state government. For these reasons it is completely logical for the protesters to campaign for Kloppenburg. They're just being rational. There's nothing wrong with that.
I worked with Klopperburg for a few months a year or two ago. She is an excellent attorney, very sharp and productive (whether she's prosecuting environmental violations or defending the DNR from lawsuits from environmentalists). She didn't come across as a raging liberal.
Oh c'mon BadgerEsquire! Don't bother these people with actual facts. They would rather call peaceful protesters "thugs," and believe that the protesters are out-of-state "professionals." The fact that Prosser publicly alligned with Walker and the Republicans' agenda and Kloppenburg explicitly said the opposite won't sway them. Now, let the excuses roll (Gee, she's just not saying how she really feels). "Alligning with the republicans shows judicial restraint." That last one, from a con la professor, is particularly pathetic.
I'll bet she doesn't find it appalling enough to publicly denounce it, and insist that her "supporters" stop it.
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