"Prosser says the campaign is one of the most politicized court races in state history and people are not looking at the qualifications of the candidates. He says the race has become a referendum on the wrong subject and people are supporting his challenger based on the perception that she’ll rule against the policies of the Governor... Kloppenburg says voters are turning to her because they think she’ll be an independent voice on the court that will help restore integrity."
That makes it sound like what we've heard before. You can listen to the whole thing here, but unfortunately, there's no transcript. I'm listening now. It begins with opening statements. Kloppenburg, speaking very quickly, recites her resume and claims she will be independent. Prosser, speaking slowly — he sounds like Mr. Rogers — recites his resume, concentrating on the number and range of his judicial opinions, and how they demonstrate that he's moderate and a centrist. He stresses that Kloppenburg lacks judicial experience and is a "stealth candidate."
MORE: Asked whether there is a First Amendment right for a judicial candidate to lie about his opponent, Prosser says he knows this is a reference to an ad the winning candidate in the last Wisconsin Supreme Court election used against the incumbent, which has been the subject of some very heated litigation. Getting into the specifics of that case, Prosser's answer was legalistic. When it was Kloppenburg's turn to answer the same question, she gave a clear "no," there is no First Amendment right to lie. That gave Prosser the opening to accuse her of lying about him. He offered to give her a list of her lies. She remained impassive.
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Prosser was a long time Republican politician! It is a joke for him to be making the argument he is making.
Boring vs. Hysterical? Who will win?
Was Prosser asleep during the last Supreme Court race?
And Kloppenburg is a lefty. Dog bites man.
'restore integrity" means "bought and paid for by union thugs.
"the race has become a referendum on the wrong subject and people are supporting his challenger based on the perception that she’ll rule against the policies of the Governor"
This is what happens when you focus on outcomes. Wisconsin could very well elect an unqualified judge that will make bone-headed rulings that will affect the citizenry for decades.
I've seen Kloppenburg supporters be rather explicit about this race being a referendum on Scott Walker. I'm not sure that these volunteers were authorized by her campaign or not--they were just passing out literature.
Anyone know the extent to which Kloppenburg herself has personally encouraged or discouraged this framing of the race?
elect an unqualified judge
Please.
The qualifications for a judge are a very low hurdle to clear.
I think you mean to write elect a judge who will, I'm afraid (but really have no evidence to back up this fear), make decisions with which I will disagree.
I've seen several pieces that mention Kloppenburg was rejected when she applied for judgeships - by Gov Thompson, Gov Doyle and Obama. What would that mean?
Why there should be worry about close calls.
With the news of the unions, and the tumult in the Rotunda, you'd have thought you had a large enough "silent majority" ... to give Kloppenberg a run for her money!
If this race goes down the toilet, it should awaken some on the right, that they LOSE, when they should win. And, it has something to do with how they are playing cards!
For 2012 to be successful, and this is a mini-test to see how the public reacts. And, what it may keep. This one is worth watching.
Will any lessons be learned?
I just read my own post. I'm not being sarcastic - I am curious what that really means when you are rejected several times.
Will any lessons be learned?
I don't know. Did you learn any in November of 2010?
`
To me, Kloppenburg is a person of low character. In the last debate, when Prosser asked her to denounce the ad that called him a child molester lover, Kloppenberg refused to do so.
She is scum. Wisconsin deserves everything bad that happens to it if a person so morally bankrupt as Kloppenberg is put on the Supreme Court.
None of you actually live in Wisconsin, do you? To call Prosser a 'centrist' and a 'fair' judge is absurd. The man is widely-known for his nasty attitude and extraordinarily harsh sentences.
You want to talk about saving money? Stop putting people in jail for years and years for petty drug violations. That's one of Prosser's favorite things to do. That's $30k/year per person that we're spending when we don't need to be.
None of you actually live in Wisconsin, do you?
Ah,a new twist on the "chickenhawk" play! So, what are we now, cheesehawks? Chickencheddars?
Whatever. We don't need your permission to express opinions. *YAWN*
I'm not saying you need anyone's permission to express your opinion. My point is that you're relying solely on what AA says to make your determination of Prosser. Try reading some of his opinions--his sentences are unreasonably harsh and he's a very, very nasty person.
Is he qualified? Yes, and so is Kloppenberg, but I'd rather have a judge who's reasonable when they sentence defendants. We could save a lot of money by imposing different types of sentences.
He stresses that Kloppenburg...is a "stealth candidate."
Prof., what's your take? As Econophile pointed out, just because the left has rallied around Kloppenburg doesn't mean she's on board with their program, she may well be an unwilling (and ultimately uncooperative) draftee in the politicization of this race.
My point is that you're relying solely on what AA says to make your determination of Prosser.
And you, Ren, are making an assumption for which you have no justification. You do realize that sitting here in MA, I do have access to other sources of information on Wisconsin news and politics besides AA? What makes you leap to the conclusion that I, or any other non-WI commenter here, are relying on a single source for our information? Personal habit?
Jay Retread says:
"Prosser was a long time Republican politician! It is a joke for him to be making the argument he is making."
And Kloppenburg is a liberal sympathizer who has the endorsements of the unions, so what's your point?
The difference is that Prosser has a thought process, whereas it's difficult sometimes to tell if JoAnn even has a pulse. She said absolutely nothing that gave me the impression she knew what she was talking about.
The debate illustrated who was the more competent candidate, and it wasn't her.
Fasttalkersarenottobetrusted.Beyond
beingacommunicationtechnique
employedspecificallytoblowyouout,
it'sanindicationthattheyhavenno
intentionofconsideringanythingyousay
muchlessaddressitbecauseitpurports
thatthey'vealreadythoughtaboutthe
subjectthoroughlyfromallanglessothere
isnothingofsignificancethatyoucan
contribute.Plus,itisaverydefinitesignof
mentalinstabilityifnotoutright
derangement.Theonlyrealresponse
availableistopunchtheminthefacetoforce
themmomentarilytoshutup.
And Kloppenburg ... has the endorsements of the unions,
A union endorsement means exactly nothing in this race. Did you expect the Union to endorse Prosser?
Prosser needs to rethink his argument.
None of you actually live in Wisconsin, do you?
Not any more, but I grew up in Appleton and my father (now deceased) and Prosser were friends. I worked on Prosser's first assembly campaign as a teenager in 1978 as a favor to my father. I haven't talked to Prosser since 1978, though.
He's a conservative. I wouldn't dispute that.
You want to talk about saving money? Stop putting people in jail for years and years for petty drug violations. That's one of Prosser's favorite things to do. That's $30k/year per person that we're spending when we don't need to be.
Does Prosser regularly depart from sentencing guidelines in imposing these draconian sentences? Or is he simply affirming the sentences handed down by the lower courts? I'd be surprised to see a Supreme Court justice handing down sentences, as that's typically the job of a circuit court judge.
Ren
The man is widely-known for his nasty attitude and extraordinarily harsh sentences.
So you've been in his courtroom, ey?
MadisonMan says:
"A union endorsement means exactly nothing in this race. Did you expect the Union to endorse Prosser?"
It means something in that the unions expect her to overturn the Repair Bill, which she will try to do once at the helm.
unions expect her to overturn the Repair Bill, which she will try to do once at the helm.
Evidence?
In the absence of evidence I am thinking the best of her. You are thinking the worst.
Kloppenburg is anything but a stealth candidate. She is running on a promise made by her supporters (and uncontradicted by her) that she will overturn certain legislation Democrats don't like.
Rocketeer67, what I learned in November 2010, is that McCain was the WORST CHOICE the republicans could make! He wasn't particularly liked by republicans! He was chosen because republicans thought they'd attract Independents, Hillary's voters, and some democraps. BOY, DID THAT DECISION COST THEM AN ELECTION, OR WHAT?
Perhaps in 2010, the republicans just wanted to run their own gigolo. Who promised he'd pay (with his wife's money), so that raising funds wouldn't be a problem.
Maybe, McCain sees nothing wrong in being a gigolo?
Glad we didn't end up with President Mood Ring.
Oh, yeah, for those on the right who haven't figured this out, Americans seem to be picking "right down the middle." Obama, however, won 52% of the vote. If you can do that with a candidate in 2012, where Obama gets the 48%, the left won't be able to steal it!
What you're looking for is to run someone against Obama, who can get enough votes so the election isn't stolen from ya. There's no one in the current crop of candidates that really floats my boat.
Ren, you may want to revisit that 1L crim class that taught you how to react to Prosser.
There, you might have learned that circuit court judges sentence people to prison, and that most of the harsh sentences for petty drug crime arise in federal, not state, court.
"My point is that you're relying solely on what [a law school prof and his/her predictable read of a Prosser opinion] [ ] to make your determination of Prosser."
Even a wise Latino would be better than a near comatose mouther of liberal talking points. If the people want Kloppenburg to judge them, they are being foolish, even if she will decide against the current Governor's Repair Bill. She will have another 10 years to use the Justice system's decisions as a partisan work of fiction.
Ren,
I'm not saying you need anyone's permission to express your opinion.
Good.
My point is that you're relying solely on what AA says to make your determination of Prosser.
Says who? How dare you condescend and tell me how I process information. What says AA convinces any of us of anything? Are you saying we don't read on our own? Again - how dare you?
Try reading some of his opinions--his sentences are unreasonably harsh and he's a very, very nasty person.
"His sentences are unreasonably harsh" - to you. And Kloppenburg - who refused to remove a misleading ad - has already proven herself to be ruthless and unfair. But you want her in office over Prosser, right?
There's something going wrong in your head.
MadisonMan:
"Evidence?
In the absence of evidence I am thinking the best of her. You are thinking the worst."
I do not have evidence, but having lived in Madison for four years, and spending at least 5 days a week on the university campus give me enough to get the impression that liberals (especially of the university type) want her in for a reason.
Madison and the Democratic political machine of Wisconsin has shown what bullshit it is capable of. Why should I be optimistic to think that JoAnn would be any different.
From what Althouse tells me, Prosser's sentences are unreasonably slow.
Carol_Herman,
Maybe, McCain sees nothing wrong in being a gigolo?
As you can see, I don't go easy on anyone - but especially Republicans - involved in adultery, so please don't force me to prove this charge is erroneous. Just know that I have read enough interviews with his first wife to know that it is and don't keep repeating it.
It's the wrong thing to do to an American hero who suffered for us, and to his wife who suffered, doubly, in a tragic accident and with her husband away.
I voted for McCain, and would've gladly taken him over Obama, but even though I don't think McCain's a great Republican, I don't think slandering him in this way is fair to him or the truth.
A union endorsement means exactly nothing in this race.
On the contrary -- a union endorsement in this race means EVERYTHING.
Obama, however, won 52% of the vote.
Actually, Obama got 52.9% ie 53% and 9.5 million more votes than McCain.
An interesting comparison:
1984
Reagan ~ 54.5 million
Mondale ~ 37.5 million
2008
Obama ~ 69.5 million
McCain ~ 60 million
So McCain got (5.5) million more votes than Reagan in 1984 ...
Whereas Obama got (((32 million))) more votes than Mondale in 1984.
Quite the sea change!
And oh the irony that it took a Barack Hussein Obama to lead the Dems to the promised land.
Did I mention McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry were god awful candidates.
>
We now return you to Prosser/Kloppenburg.
Did I mention McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry were god awful candidates.
While Obama is just an awful president.
Prosser was a long time Republican politician! It is a joke for him to be making the argument he is making.
Earl Warren was a long time Republican politician.
Your point ?
Trivia:
Warren was Dewey's vp in 1948.
carry on
Try reading some of his opinions--his sentences are unreasonably harsh and he's a very, very nasty person.
The last time I checked Supreme Court justices don't sentence anyone. Maybe Wisconsin is different ?
From what Althouse tells me, Prosser's sentences are unreasonably slow.
Yes, but are they uniformed?
This was, I thought, an interesting piece in the local paper.
What happens in Wisconsin has been in the past very different from what happens outside of Wisconsin.
Over the weekend I learned that my octogenarian mother-in-law closed her M&I accounts -- she'd had them forever! -- and switched banks because of their Walker donations. The President of the small-town bank to which she transferred her money walked out of his office and welcomed her to the family. How small-town is that?
..restore integrity.
Code for 'I'll stop Walker'.
MM
I took everything out of Chase and into a local credit union. Same reception for me. Felt good.
The President of the small-town bank to which she transferred her money walked out of his office and welcomed her to the family. How small-town is that?
Liberals having fun changing banks. How wonderful.
Hope that little small town bank is solvent.
Hope M&I is too, for that matter.
Try reading some of his opinions--his sentences are unreasonably harsh and he's a very, very nasty person.
I've got news for you - most of the judges are extraordinarily harsh with drug sentences around the country. It's part and parcel of the national "war on drugs" which shows no signs of abating. That is NOT the issue to decide this election on. But yeah let's pretend this is about Prosser's harsh sentences on drug offenders and not Kloppenburg's stealth candidacy to overturn Walker.
I live in LA and the guys at the tire store just took care of my flat tire and my spare for free. How small town is that?
I live in SoCal and I once left my wallet on the roof of my car tanking up at the gas station. I drove off and my wallet hit the street at the first left turn. A half hour later somebody showed up at my door to return it with everything intact.
How small town is that?
Public Sector Unions are still breaking the bank out here.
BTW, isn't today Meade's birthday?
Can one make donations to the Prosser campaign? Where and how?
Over the weekend I learned that my octogenarian mother-in-law closed her M&I accounts -- she'd had them forever!
As is her absolute right. I think it's silly, but hey, not my money or my call.
I'm genuinely curious, though - did your mother-in-law inquire about her new small town bank president's history of political contributions prior to opening her new account?
Liberals having fun changing banks. How wonderful.
I would not call my mother-in-law liberal. And she's changed banks once in 60+ years!
I wasn't thrilled to learn about it, either. I will at some point inherit a bunch of M&I stock from an Aunt and I'd like it to be worth something.
rocketeer -- it's a small town. I suspect everyone knows who he gives too, if he gives anything.
Chicklit:
I remember when we were kids watching the friendly neighborhood drunk, Russian Eddie, leave the Cumberland Farms store with a gallon of milk, place it on the roof of his car and drive off. It stayed on his car roof until he made a turn about a block away and it fell into the street. I wonder where he thought the milk was when he got home!
The M&I Bank that donated to the Walker campaign doesn't own M&I Bank any longer.
Harris Bank owns M&I now.
Madison Man @ 12:18
I have also had the pleasure of a small town bank. They are a delight. I do hope that that small bank never experiences barbarians at the gate because of some slip from liberal orthodoxy. Some innocent donation or slip of speech could put them in the same situation as the other bank. I also hope the little diner next to it never loses customers or is driven out of business because they dared to stray from "accepted speech".
These days it takes more courage to stand for a conservative principle than to keep quiet and accept the demands of the hoards.
These days it takes more courage to stand for a conservative principle than to keep quiet and accept the demands of the hoards.
How is that any different from liberals needing to keep quiet in a southern town? You have to know the community you live in. Sure in an ideal world we could all speak our minds and everyone would have a laugh at the end of the day, but reality is that it's a cut-throat world out there and you have to know where the mines are.
Hey garage if it feels good just do it!
Some innocent donation or slip of speech could put them in the same situation as the other bank.
That would surprise me. A small-town bank President has to be pretty much in tune with what's going on in his or her neck of the woods. And it's far more likely that he can talk to his neighbors about what he does if he has to. That's not something the President of a multi-state bank will ever do.
In other words, it's a lot harder to get mad at an individual that you know and see on occasion at the local Pig than at a faceless bureaucrat who lives in Charlotte or NYC or Atlanta.
Prosser warned that the millions of dollars being spent by third party groups puts the judiciary at risk. He says the ads could destroy judicial independence and take away the votes of the people of Wisconsin.
If I were a Wisconsin-ite I'd feel very insulted by Judge Prosser. He's basically saying that the average WI voter is so stupid that they will allow themselves to be swayed by these union ads instead of thinking about the proper role of a state judge. I mean where is the RESPECT for the people?
rocketeer -- it's a small town. I suspect everyone knows who he gives too, if he gives anything.
What about her grocer? Does she have a florist? Her preacher (if she's a churchgoer) probably votes, at least, even if he doesn't donate. I wonder if she gets her hair done - stylist may be a closet Bircher! Does she vet everyone she associates with in regards to their politics?
I know I'm being more than a bit of a smartass, but I really do kind of get a chuckle out of it and I really do wonder where folks that live their live this way (on both sides of the political divide) draw the line...
I know I'm being more than a bit of a smartass, but I really do kind of get a chuckle out of it and I really do wonder where folks that live their live this way (on both sides of the political divide) draw the line...
That's a very icky way to live, and I suspect it's much worse in a small town where you can't get away with saying you have no ideology. In a large town, it's very easy to deal with someone on a business basis for years and never knowing their politics or really much about them.
For those wondering, that Schankman kid is quite a talker. Claims he made no threats of violence towards Althouse.
Her preacher
Don't go there with her or you will get an earful about Bishop Morlino!
BTW, Shankmann's diatribe was deleted.
I'm getting the nonsense via him on FB now. Yeah, he's back.
Prosser warned that the millions of dollars being spent by third party groups puts the judiciary at risk.
Citizens United indeed!
A Bedraggled Old Bench Hag Named Shirley
In Her Senility Became a Tad Squirrely
She Undermined Prosser
To Prop up the Klopper
But Shirley Is Surely More Surly.
unions expect her to overturn the Repair Bill, which she will try to do once at the helm.
Evidence?
Scott Walker got money from the Koch brothers and look what happened!
In a large town, it's very easy to deal with someone on a business basis for years and never knowing their politics or really much about them.
I live in a small town, and in my experience, because everyone knows everyone else's business, including their politics, politics is subsumed. You don't care about a person's politics - even though you may know them and disagree with them - because you know the individual personally.
I believe the risk that revealing your politics will result in recriminations in a larger town precisely because of the relative anonymity.
rather, the risk of recriminations is greater
Prosser warned that the millions of dollars being spent by third party groups puts the judiciary at risk.
The balls on these people are amazing. How he could say that with a straight face is incredible.
I'd like to buy the world some Koch, but the stock isn't publicly traded.
"Prosser" sounds like slang for a pimp.
"Kloppenburg" sounds like the mounds of dank, mossy stuff left in the street after a team of horses saunters (klop-klops) by.
By those admittedly juvenile standards, I'm with the Kissingerian sentiment that it's a pity they both can't lose.
The balls on these people are amazing.
If there's one thing the Tea Party has taught me, it's that you people are certainly infatuated with our balls.
Alex,
How is that any different from liberals needing to keep quiet in a southern town?
That's easy.
Liberals don't need to keep quiet in a Southern town (and believe me, they don't).
Liberals don't need to keep quiet in a Southern town (and believe me, they don't).
Yeah. I get the impression sometimes that the only Southern towns most people have been to are the ones that exist in their imaginations.
There is no First Amendment right to lie? What?
I'd keep her off for that glib piece of stupidity right there.
No First Amendment to lie under oath, sure.
But if it's legal to punish people--in a frickin' political campaign--for lying, then the First Amendment has no meaning at all.
What next, bring back the Alien and Sedition Acts? Moron.
Granted she's a state court judge, but jeez louise.
Vote for Kloppenburg, send lying Republicans to jail. Exciting times.
And instead of jumping all over her, Prosser takes the opportunity to call her a liar. What are you running for, 2nd grade class president?
It's Moron v. Moron in Wisconsin. Awesome.
"Scott Walker got money from the Koch brothers and look what happened!"
Yeah, just imagine if he'd gotten Kock from the money brothers instead!
wv: "onist" -- an onanist with a premature ejaculation problem.
I didn't see the debate. Did Prosser call Kloppenburg the "B" word.
Didn't the SCOTUS rule that one cannot be punished for lying when they confirmed the ruling killing the Stolen Valor bill?
"I think you mean to write elect a judge who will, I'm afraid (but really have no evidence to back up this fear), make decisions with which I will disagree."
There is a pretty objective measure of how good a judge is: how well-reasoned their opinions are in the 99% of cases that do not involve politically charged questions.
.
No thread would be complete without at least one photo of the honorable (if not slightly 'homely' *) JoAnne Kloppenburg from the last debate:
http://oi53.tinypic.com/16b0igy.jpg
* Seinfeld disclaimer: Not that there is anything wrong with that.
.
None of you actually live in Wisconsin, do you?
No, I live somewhere with much better weather and no state income taxes. But as a member of the State Bar of Wisconsin, I think I have an interest in who is on the Supreme Court there. I encourage those who are eligible to vote in Wisconsin to turn out for Prosser. He's not my dream candidate, but let's face it Kloppenburg is there only because serious and truly qualified folks took a pass at opposing Prosser. This intervening event (the Capitol bruhaha) shouldn't mean stooping that low.
Phil 3:14 says:
"Scott Walker got money from the Koch brothers and look what happened!"
Is that the best attack liberals have against Walker's character?
Have you heard of George Soros or Warren Buffett? Or maybe Obama's little gift from BP?
I'm pretty sure that when I studied Con Law, and when I taught my students on Monday, and when I read Volokh's textbook (which is OSSUM, BTW), there is a First Amendment right to lie about anything and anyone, so long as it's not defamatory.
Foxtrot;
Turn your sarcasm meter on.
The balls on these people are amazing. How he could say that with a straight face is incredible.
You voted for Obama didn't you? Don't tell me you actually believed him?
Phil 3:14 says:
"Turn your sarcasm meter on."
It's now on, and sarcasm noted.
Living in Madison makes a moderate really intolerant of the same liberal talking points about Koch, all of which I've had to hear ad nauseum at the University of Wisconsin. And I won't even talk about being forced as a TA to be part of a union which supports JoAnn Floppenburg.
I pay more to the union (against my own will) than to my health care premiums...is there something wrong here?
Prosser was never a trial court judge, so he never sentenced anyone, either harshly or otherwise. A little care with the facts helps the discussion go down.
Saw at Instapundit a link to support a new ad for Prosser. Check out the ad here. Donate for the ad here.
Isn't interesting that in a race so contentious that politifact has only two items to fact check? One on the scummy GWC ad and one on a negative statement made by Kloppenberg, both of which were rated BARELY TRUE.....Obviously David Prosser has not made any statements that politifact found worthy of investigation....something that Prosser should be proud of and that the voters should consider.
I had someone ask me what the difference is between "barely true" and "mostly false"
Good question
A document was discovered where the victim reported to the church and stated Prosser was involved in the molestation. Max L Clein was the child who reported it to the church.
You are SCUM. I so hope you get a libel suit thrown at your so fast your head spins.
Alex, thanks for your negative attack ad. Anyway if you provide your fax number I will fax a copy of the original document.
By the way how much do you get paid by the Koch Klan to be a troll and spread lies?
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