... and keeps the crowd waiting for a long, cold time, then delivers a generic speech including all sorts of inappropriate stuff about not giving in to violence — hello! Wisconsin teachers are utterly nonviolent — and how the government needs to create good jobs — which of course, the people protesting are privileged to have already.
Really, why is this celebrity from another state grandstanding here? This is truly not about him. Yet he made today, in a state that is not his state, revolve around him. It was quite selfish, especially when you contemplate the Wisconsin citizens the protesters are trying to influence. Why would Jesse Jackson's generically left-wing speech sway the people of Wisconsin to throw their support to the employees who have well-paid jobs with excellent benefits that they don't want to lose? If I had to pull a coherent thought out of Jackson's appearance, it would be self-interest. Jackson is a political speaker who plugged in to an event that he thought would boost his influence as a famous politico, and the state employees were demonstrating to preserve their power as especially fortunate participants in a struggling economy.
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Jesse "goes" to Washington, he is an outside in every measure. Jesse just found another parade in front of which he could jump. and he did with both feet - both left feet!! Why do simple minded people have to continuously prove the point? We get it, Jesse. You do not need to do this any more for us to get who and what you are, and are not. That has already been confirmed.
Jesse Jackson is the Bernie Madoff of the compassion industry.
I think people are on to him. Just sayn'
Again, I don't think the protest is about losing benefits. I don't know a teacher who hasn't accepted that. It's about losing the right to bargain collectively.
I have seen this many times: Republican campaigns about "those people" in Madison to get elected, then he -- it's usually a he -- gets to Madison and the first thing, almost, he does, is expand the reach of the state Government. In this case telling local communities that they cannot deal with Teachers' Unions.
Why not just shut off the money spigot -- or severely restrict it -- and let each individual city or town or county decide how to deal with things? Why the need for the "small government" governor to impose his will?
That's why I like the Imperial Walker signs. That and being a Star Wars fan.
Jesse Jackson's appearance is why -- among other things -- I don't think Sarah Palin will show tomorrow. Why allow yourself to be compared to Jackson? (And why would Walker, who seems to have an upper hand, even want Palin here?)
Uh, he is an exploiter, a communist and a nit wit. Other than standing out in a crowd of pasty white Wisconsinites, he fits right in.
Never get involved in a land war in Asia, never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line and NEVER stand between Jesse Jackson and a TV camera.
Off topic but still as relevant as Jesse Jackson coming to Wisconsin to interject himself in our debate...
did anyone see Hilary Clinton's picture that's on Drudge right now? Looks like she had a facelift. An yes, daddy LIKES !!!
Depending on how he handles this Walker might be getting himself on the short list for the Republican primary for President.
If he smashes the unions and their bobo Obama that is.
Interesting times.
On the other hand the Rev Jackson remains on the short bus. So to speak.
I think Walker has to "create" 250K jobs first, as promised.
That is a very tall order when many workers are facing big pay cuts.
If Corky was awake would say that was nasty.
Althouse was too sanguine about the possibility of violence. I would sooner stand between a grizzly and her cub than between a civil service employee and his pension....After the terrible things that happened to Lara Logan and Anderson Cooper, she should take precautions. Always position yourself on the edge of the crowd and wear as much cordoroy as possible. Cordoroy soothes teachers.
Bwaaaaa-haaa-ha-ha-haaaa-oh, man-haaaa-haaa!
I watched the Walker press conference this afternoon and was very impressed. He spoke clearly and forthrightly...no teleprompter and not one
"ah, er, or um." He was convincingly sincere. I was impressed.
Troop,
I think people are on to him.
Bullshit. Did you see that crowd?
If they were on to him they wouldn't be there.
Why not just shut off the money spigot -- or severely restrict it -- and let each individual city or town or county decide how to deal with things?
Thats exactly what he's doing - giving authority back to the local level. You must have missed his speech today explaining how he went through this as a County Executive.
Why the need for the "small government" governor to impose his will?
Because the Unions have their foot on your throats. Think of him as the ref pulling the cheaters off you so you have a fair fight.
Uh, [Jesse Jackson] is an exploiter, a communist and a nit wit.
Funny how that also describes the teachers there.
Again, I don't think the protest is about losing benefits. I don't know a teacher who hasn't accepted that. It's about losing the right to bargain collectively.
Walker isn't taking away teachers' right to bargain collectively. That's a lie. He is saying the union can't force teachers to join it and pay dues and has to justify its existence each year by winning a vote of the teachers it claims to represent. How is giving teachers the freedom not to participate in the union the same as taking away their right to bargain collectively? Apparently, according to that kind of thinking, a union can't survive if it can't force people to be part of it and if it actually has to get re-approved each year. Ever considered maybe that suggests the union has no business being in control?
"Really, why is this celebrity from another state grandstanding here? This is truly not about him."
Just wait 'til tomorrow. There will be a whole new cohort of these, conservative edition.
Does Jesse want to cut Wisconsin's taxpayer nuts off?
For decades now, a Jesse Jackson speech has consisted of nothing but a bunch of catch-phrases and boilerplate strung together in random order.
In this case telling local communities that they cannot deal with Teachers' Unions.
He's not telling them they cannot. He's telling them they need not.
They still can give teacher's unions what they choose to give them & can pay for.
MadisonMan said...
Again, I don't think the protest is about losing benefits. I don't know a teacher who hasn't accepted that.
That's what my daughter, a Wisconsin teacher, said too. But she is not the person negotiating the contracts, the union bosses are. They have a completely different agenda. And they have squandered their public credibility over the years by protecting the "right" of lousy teachers to teach.
The Walker bill does not eliminate the unions. It just limits what can be the subject of collective bargaining, and salary is still subject to bargaining.
Let the unions try this for a while and prove that they are more interested in educational quality than benefits and power. Then we can talk again.
What is the best argument for a local school district choosing to collectively bargain with teachers' unions over benefits?
Do teachers unions provide a service to the district? Do they provide more qualified teachers?
Dear Professor.
You will need to set a leg down on one side or the other, eventually. Both ends against the middle is a loser's game when all is said and done. Though true, you have succeeded so far without such.
Maybe I'm saying that politeness has its limits. As in, you are a very polite and well thought person. Just, I guess, that I'd like to hear what you really think, on occasion.
I think this is a catastrophic mistake for the unions but this is sort of the history of unions. When GM was making the Saturn, Yokich, the UAW president, sabotaged the efforts of the local union head who was enthusiastic about the car. Yokich spent his time building the UAW country club in Michigan. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Luther,
Bwaaaaa-haaa-ha-ha-haaaa-oh, man-haaaa-haaa!
What's worse, American idols or Jesse Jackson.
The title of this thread should be: Nonsense dances into Wisconsin...
Jackson was there because there was a microphone and there were cameras.
And a republican governor to protest. I'm sure that Jerry Brown, when he has to cut staff, will not have the same treatment.
"Again, I don't think the protest is about losing benefits. I don't know a teacher who hasn't accepted that. It's about losing the right to bargain collectively."
Nearly every teacher and state worker I have had contact with over the past few days over this has consistently brought up the loss of money and benefits as the main problem.
To be brutally frank...most rank-and-file union folks and teachers dont even know what the union even collectively bargains for them.
No union should be able to collectively bargain for benefits the private sector has no chance in getting. In the private sector, you are offered a benefit package...you can accept it and pay a portion for it, or decline it altogether. Same goes for a pension/retirement plan. Yet unions are allowed to collectively bargain for cadillac health plans and top-flite pensions at little cost to the employee? What a crock of shit.
FWIW, I don't blame anyone in the unions for being scared to death about losing take home pay or future salary growth.
I have no respect for the sick out that canceled schools for 3 days, nor for the Dem congress people skipping town, nor for the OFA financing this.
Jesse "Please point a camera at me" Jackson, not merely from another state, from a long gone time as well. Like watching Jagger or Richards doing 60s rock. Boring, been there.yawn.
Shorter Jesse: "I'm still relevant! Really! Me! Over here, dammit!"
wv: jokeres -- It knows!
I think if they are playing the JJ card, they have lost the hand.
We'll see tomorrow when the right wing shows ups.
MadisonMan, who should these folks have a divine right to bargain "collectively" when no other group does?
Workers have a right to be at the table.
That maybe so.. The problem is the table is not growing fast enough to keep up with the unions.
You could have written that before he spoke. Maybe you did.
Ann, you're analyzing poetry as prose. I get it: you don't get it.
It was great, people were pumped up and moved by it, we laughed together and the lead-in speeches and song were great.
Corky...?
Damn it.
"...being scared about losing take home pay and future sslary growth." You mean like the rest of us working stiffs? Why should this particular 4.7% of the population be protected from the same problems the rest of us have to face?
I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot of people who would be glad to be able to have a job so they could worry about these things too.
Ah yes, unions. The elite priviledged few, protected by dem underlings and living off the rest of society.
See there you go...
Alpha Liberal appears.
If I had to pull a coherent thought out of Jackson's appearance, it would be self-interest.
Which makes him no different from the mob he's egging on.
"Again, I don't think the protest is about losing benefits. I don't know a teacher who hasn't accepted that.
Except you can't provide an example of a teachers union accepting an agreement where the union workers contribute more to their health care or retirement.
I'll have you know that "Corky" is a lawyer trained by none other than-L'Althouse.
I demand my God-given constitutional right to collectively bargain for a new gold-plated contract after the suffering I had to endure to secure that video of Reverend J. What? What do you all mean you don't have the money? Come on. Have you never heard of Taxing The Rich? Duh, people! And then spend that money through the Althouse Amazon portal. What could be easier. Sheesh!
Okay, seriously, this bears repeating:
David said...
That's what my daughter, a Wisconsin teacher, said too. But she is not the person negotiating the contracts, the union bosses are. They have a completely different agenda. And they have squandered their public credibility over the years by protecting the "right" of lousy teachers to teach.
The Walker bill does not eliminate the unions. It just limits what can be the subject of collective bargaining, and salary is still subject to bargaining.
Let the unions try this for a while and prove that they are more interested in educational quality than benefits and power. Then we can talk again.
2/18/11 9:05 PM
Excellent. All best wishes to David's daughter. Something tells me she is the crème de la Wisconsin crème.
I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot of people who would be glad to be able to have a job so they could worry about these things too.
Oh yes, I'm sure. I have sympathy for anybody who is unemployed, afraid for their job, or afraid of losing wages. It's awful.
I'm still waiting for the pro-union argument from the employer's perspective.
He appeared to lend the special black preacher talkin' in rhyme thingy.
This makes the suffering of state workers authentic.
They're just like blacks in the Jim Crow south.
Just like homosexuals are just like blacks in the Jim Crow south.
Just like women (well, the right kind of women) are just like blacks in the Jim Crow south.
Not women like Sarah Palin.
It's extraordinary that the biggest name which the unions could bring in is Jesse Jackson. I wonder how far down the list the organisers had to go before they got to Jackson.
In fact, as I see it now...
Everybody is just like blacks in the Jim Crow south.
Except for white hetero men.
And women like Sarah Palin.
Hey, I'm young (63) and naive... okay.
I mean, it could happen, right?
"Jesse Jackson is the Bernie Madoff of the compassion industry."
Wrong.
Jesse Jackson is the Sarah Palin of the libs.
Fixed
Once again, Jesse who? He is no celebrity. He is irrelevant. Even Blacks ignore him. Only the media takes him seriously. This shows they have no intellect.
Jesse Jackson is an old, worn-out, tired cliche. The question is not why would Jackson speak in Madison, but why would they let him? He hasn't swayed an opinion in 20 years or more. And, he'd deliver a speech in the men's room at a bus station if he thought it would get him face time on CNN.
I'm so happy Alpha/Freder/Montaige is here. Let's hear his sterling words about the violent Conservatives and the victimized union teachers.
Insta posted this; apparently, Scott Walker has ordered the assembly adjourned due to threats against the assemblymen.
For Ann and Meade, Irene and all the Tea Partiers, be careful.
Government
of the unions
by the unions
for the unions.
"Jesse Jackson comes to Wisconsin...
The antithesis of Mr. Smith goes to Washington.
Jesse Jackson's last meaningful speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DPy2alWEZ-U#t=12s
I bet Jackson would not let his Rainbow Push employees join a union.
ALH, you're right. That's the best picture I've ever seen of Hillary.
edutcher, thanks, but I will be staying at home this weekend.
I hope all is well at your ranch.
Good. Say, "ref", to your pups from ours.
Things are looking up. The Blonde finally got some good news from the dermatologist - those cells he said were primary are now secondary, not atypical.
Since she has 6 years' oncology experience, she tells me this puts her pretty much in the clear.
Hope you can get some good news, too.
Jackson is insufferable.
I think the specifics of what Walker wants--increased contributions to health care and pensions--are entirely within reason.
I think the way he is trying to do it--by passing a law that will allow him to make unilateral changes--is extreme and smacks of governmental abuse of power and government expropriation of private property.
He should be able to find a less extreme and less tyrannical way of achieving his goals.
edutcher, that is great news. I hope The Blonde finds comfort and relief in the good news. I think about you and her often, truly. You have always been a gracious gentleman from the first time we interacted here (when I half-heartedly admitted to predicting a revolution).
We are okay. Mr. Irene has a new job that he loves. I am doing pretty well. There are many fluctuating details in both of these stories, but the big picture paints a generally content bubbble.
Woof to you as well from the boys.
If I'd known Jesse Jackson was going to get involved, I wouldn't have wasted my clown joke earlier in the day. It would be so much more appropriate here.
(Don't bother looking for it. It's not that good of a clown joke. Not nearly as good as Jesse Jackson.)
Some pretty good comments follow this JSOnline piece:
Jackson: "This is a Martin Luther King moment"
I like this one:
Three comparisons that the protesters should not be making:
1) Walker as Hitler. If you think this is a reasonable comparison, please
audit a World History course at your nearest university. Or watch the
History Channel pretty much any night of the week.
2) Madison as Cairo/Walker as Mubarak. Please read up on recent history,
as well.
3) Madison compared to Montgomery or Selma. I can't imagine how
anyone can draw a parallel between the fight for equal rights for African-
Americans and the fight to retain collective bargaining rights while keeping
a straight face.
If you want people to accept your argument against the bill, you must at
least have a rational argument.
Irene, I'm so glad your Mr found work. I know how rough a haul that can be.
I've often thought about your health when I saw your name, but I didn't want to bring you down by asking about it. Glad the bubble is contented.
And I know all about those fluctuating details. We had a couple this week.
PS I appreciate the compliment more than you know.
Stay warm and dry.
Is there any surprise that Jesse Jackson is all about what's best for Jesse Jackson?
If the union members had any sense, they would have invited Aaron Rodgers to speak about the importance of collective bargaining.
I think the way he is trying to do it--by passing a law that will allow him to make unilateral changes--is extreme and smacks of governmental abuse of power and government expropriation of private property.
Not what he's doing.
He's eliminating the union's ability to negotiate for class size and stuff that is the perview of school boards and preserving their ability to negotiate wages and some benes while upping the current rates of those benes to something less draining on the coffers and more in line with private employees.
He's cutting the union's ability to negotiate the class size and stuff like that so that the local school boards (who can't legislate this change and are stuck with the union's demands on these issues) can make the necessary adjustments to their budgets which are also deep in the red.
Failure to kill the collective bargaining on the class size and other administrative type stuff will require the local boards to severely raise revenue (taxes) or cut positions which they can't do if the class sizes and other administrative stuff are mandated at x levels.
WTF are unions even allowed to have a say in class size anyway? Oh yeah, the smaller the class size, the more union members needed to teach the kids.
Right now, those school boards can't increase class size at all to bring down labor costs due to the union rules.
There something really weird about a black self promoting "organizer" trying to rally a well off upper middle class crowd who want to protect their perks.
wv boarcat
No kidding.
You are very welcome, edutcher.
Well that makes it official, the protest jumped the shark.
Hey edutcher and The Blonde -- Great news! High five to you. May 2011 continue to be a blessed year.
And Irene -- may your bubble be secure and very durable. :-)
Hope KentuckyLiz is okay.
Thanks, JAL. As the kids say, it's complicated. But we are managing well.
I, too, think often about kentuckyliz, and I hope she is well.
Hubby said he heard a teacher on TV today say that "if they get rid of the unions, the children will lose their weekends - The unions are what got us the 8 hour work day and the 40 hour work week!"
She certainly doesn't know her history well. The unions may have gotten those things to start with, along with getting rid of child labor and better wages - but the government has since legislated these things. If "they got rid of the unions" all workers, not only those in the unions, wouldn't suddenly be subject to 120 hour work weeks, dangerous conditions, or $3 a day wages.
Hubby and I and our 20-year-old special needs daughter and 10-year-old Cub Scout son are coming up tomorrow. I haven't been to Madison in years, it'll be nice to visit again.
wv: dusunjud
After spending days feeding the right-wing blogosphere all kinds of smears (they disrespect the flag!), Althouse finally confessed:
"For all the size and noise and sincere fervor, I've seen absolutely no anger, nastiness, or rudeness. Not even any pushing to get into a better position. Everyone is quite nice, really. You need to understand that. Even when my dear bodyguard is not close to me, I don't feel at all endangered. And though I've photographed some signs and other junk piled on the ground, there isn't stuff strewn all over, and there is zero vandalism or destructiveness toward the capitol building itself."
Her honesty is appreciated, even if it took her forever to post it.
So what exactly was Althouse up to before this confession? Propaganda to get hits from the ultra-right blogs!
Althouse opines: "...and how the government needs to create good jobs — which of course, the people protesting are privileged to have already."
Althouse is privileged to have tenure at a public university, which has walled her off from the meltdown of the U.S. economy after 8 years of Bush and all the despicable behavior of big corporations and financial institutions. The walled off and secure Althouse seems to think the people protesting in Wisconsin should bear the brunt of the pain of the destruction of the U.S. economy, rather than those who actually caused the economic catastrophe in this nation.
Althouse also encourages people to believe Obama is not a U.S. citizen.
Althouse also will not say a word against torture.
But Althouse will tell people in Wisconsin they should not listen to Jesse Jackson because he's from out of state. Will she say the same about Jim Hoft and Andrew Breitart coming to Wisconsin tomorrow? Her blogfather, Instapundit, calls them the "cavalry". I guess they're better off listening to Althouse, who has spent the last several days feeding right-wing bloggers stuff to link to in order to make everyone at the Wisconsin protests looks like scum.
Funny how Althouse's husband, Meade, only noticed dumb signs with comparisons to Hitler at this protest, even though exactly the same kind of stuff was all around him at his Tea Party rallies.
From spectacle to farce in less than 48 hours. Amazing.
It strikes me as likely that Jackson throwing his "weight" behind the teachers will only hurt them with voters.
Robert - you sound like a Nazi.
What a phony, while his political machine brews up a union protest in a tea cup Obama toasts fat cats. Technology summit my ass, this was a quid pro quo campaign stop on the taxpayers dime.
I wonder how many of these companies are unionized, hire B1 workers or offshore their support & production?
btw- I'd love to see the SEIU bus some protesters here.
I suggest that MadisonMan read the actual bill (http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Wisconsin_Assembly_Bill_11,_the_%22Scott_Walker_Budget_Repair_Bill%22_(2011) .
He will see that the bill does not cause the affected public employees to lose the right to bargain collectively. It does, however, attempt to put reasonable restrictions on government obligations. It isn't a union busting bill at all. That's hype.
I think the requirement for the unions to re-certify annually is an excellent idea and will force unions to be accountable to their members. As things stand presently, once a union is in place, even a alternate union has great difficulty in shifting it.
As far as state governments telling local governments what to do, that isn't really an expansion of the state into the local, it's an historic fact of life: local government answers to state; federal government answers to 'the people' and powers not specifically given to the federal government are reserved to the states and the people.
As for Jesse Jackson, it has been so long since he has done anything of consequence, the younger generation barely knows who he is anymore.
Good Gosh.
Ayn Rand wrote words you, Ann Althouse, didn't.
Her words lasted decades and, and THIS is key, her words will last decades more.
Ann Althouse, your words are less valuable than Ayn Rand's words are.
To ignore it is common.
Are you paid to be pedestrian?
Really, why is this celebrity from another state grandstanding here
Uh, Noam Chomsky was busy, and Howard Zinn is dead?
He will see that the bill does not cause the affected public employees to lose the right to bargain collectively.
The bill causes the affected public employees to lose the right to bargain for the benefits collectively -- which commenters remind me constantly lately must be counted as part of their total compensation.
The bill causes the affected public employees to lose the right to bargain for their wages collectively outside of some narrow limits.
What the hell is Jesse Jackson even saying?
"In real life, Marilyn Monroe's probable suicide--or worse: a death that might have been an accident, suggesting that, to her, the difference did not matter--was a declaration that we live in a world which made it impossible for her kind of spirit, and for the things she represented, to survive."
I would never agree with such a sentiment, yet to ignore the talent is indicative of one's own limitations; nothing more.
"She projected the sense of a person born and reared in some radiant utopia untouched by suffering, unable to conceive of ugliness or evil, facing life with the confidence, the benevolence, and the joyous self-flaunting of a child or a kitten who is happy to display its own attractiveness as the best gift it can offer the world, and who expects to be admired for it, not hurt."
Ayn was just so talented, better than you and I as evidenced above, of course, the idea she would "theatrically" walk out of any room WFB entered is extraordinary special.
That being said, the idea Whitaker Chambers' review of AS compares to Clemmons' greatness in the disembowelment of Fennimore Cooper's shenanigans is preposterous.
Of course.
Libtard: Althouse, who has spent the last several days feeding right-wing bloggers stuff to link to in order to make everyone at the Wisconsin protests looks like scum.
Shorter Libtard: "Waaaaah!"
Go fuck yourself Robert.
Jesse Jackson is so 1980s.
Funny how Althouse's husband, Meade, only noticed dumb signs with comparisons to Hitler at this protest, even though exactly the same kind of stuff was all around him at his Tea Party rallies.
Funny how the left made such a hullabaloo over those FEW tea party Hitler signs....
Revenant said...
It strikes me as likely that Jackson throwing his "weight" behind the teachers will only hurt them with voters.
I totally agree.
It's the supreme parasite at a gathering of parasites.
Count me a shocked that Jesse Jackson would make a guest appearance. I thought he would be busy with his new organization - Operation Procreate. The offspring of Operation Push.
Remember how the tea party was labeled overwhelmingly white by the MSM? To blunt the possibility of similar criticism, Jesse the J had to show up.
Alpha Liberal opines on the seriousness of protest:
"It was great, people were pumped up and moved by it, we laughed together and the lead-in speeches and song were great."
Need anything more be said? The speeches were great.
Shouting Thomas,
He appeared to lend the special black preacher talkin' in rhyme thingy.
Ryan,
What the hell is Jesse Jackson even saying?
Brothers and sisters,
I make the suffering of state workers authentic.
You're lacking credibility, now, so I lent it
You're like blacks in the south.
Since I'm running my mouth.
Sarah Palin? She can't even rent it.
MLK would've carried Hitler signs.
If we'd thought of that, back in those times.
With each new election.
- Since the Left loooves projection.
We must show we've all lost our minds.
Up with hope. Down with dope.
I'm outta here - c ya!
Jackson and Sharpton are anachronisms.
Desperate anachronisms at that.
Trey
My view is that when Jackson showed up, the protest had effectively jumped the shark.
And to make matters even better, the Fonz, et al. were apparently from (Milwaukee) Wisconsin when he perfected that move.
JAL said...
Hey edutcher and The Blonde -- Great news! High five to you. May 2011 continue to be a blessed year.
And Irene -- may your bubble be secure and very durable. :-)
Hope KentuckyLiz is okay.
Thanks, and your lips to God's ears for KYLiz. I think of her often in these precincts and remember her fighting spirit.
If you're out there, kid, but can't participate, never forget you have friends here.
Revenant said...
It strikes me as likely that Jackson throwing his "weight" behind the teachers will only hurt them with voters.
You read my nasty little mind. I keep having visions of that picture of Dukakis, Bentsen, and Jackson joining hands at the end of the '88 Demo Convention and one of the NBC(!) anchors commenting, "What's wrong with this picture?".
Jesse is a left-wing parasite. A total hack.
Eliminate the power of the unions and you eliminate the power of the corrupt democrat party. It's a win-win. It is especially a win for the children, the tax payer, and all good teachers.
Mustn't be racisss, must show Jesse respec'. No matter what horsepucky he spews.
OT - Did anyone catch Google's tribute to Brancusi? Beautiful, IMO. Must be the 100th anniversary of his death, or sump'n.
This is what you're up against today:
Good luck.
Public Sector unions are harmful to a Democratic Republic. Politicians use them as a base of power and the unions use that relationship to vote themselves more money and power.
http://www.professorbainbridge.com/professorbainbridgecom/2011/02/the-case-against-public-sector-unionism.html
Hey Robert, you managed to work in Bush halfway into your comment! Much better than yesterday, when I had to slog through to the end to get to the good stuff. With a little more preparation and effort, you'll have him at the very beginning. This will save most of us some time in waiting to see what your real point is.
"Or watch the History Channel pretty much any night of the week."
That commenter ruined his/her comment right there. Clearly not a History Channel viewer, or they'd know HC doesn't do history anymore, just UFO's, guys with axes, and pawn shops.
Or maybe, try watching the Science Channel. You can see Karl Pilkington travel all over in episode after episode of An Idiot Abroad.
History Channel? WTF?
Jesse is Jesse--hasnt been relevant for 20 years, but still needs the "adulation." Another douchenozzle like our president.
Jesse Jackson is the gift that keeps on giving and Gov. Walker should thank him for showing up. Any Wisconsin voter with common sense now knows who is on the right side of this issue. Jackson is such a blowhard.
Dollars and Ego, are what drive this man to every situation in the U.S. and sometimes globally. Jesse Jackson, being the community organizer/activist that he is, needs to keep getting the fundraising, the expose, the money, the media adoration.
He is a role model to the left because he will go anywhere, say anything to anyone on the left or 'oppressed' side that they want to hear.
And why doesn't the MSM see this if we all can?
The Professor has not figured out Jesse Jackson yet?
Jesse Jackson is one of the last people on Earth still profiting from slavery in the United States. He's the worst of the worst. Decent people of all political stripes would do well to ignore his banal bleatings.
The fact that Jesse Jackson is there tells me that Gov. Walker is doing the right thing.
Andrew Breitbart and author Brad Thor will be speaking at a "Standing with Walker" rally at the Wisconsin State Capitol, East Side of the Building at 12:00PM today.
I wonder how far down the list the organisers had to go before they got to Jackson.
You proceed from a questionable assumption. Is there any evidence Jackson was invited?
“Some of what I’ve heard coming out of Wisconsin, where you’re just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally, seems like more of an assault on unions…” -- POS obama
“I think we’re focused on balancing our budget. It would be wise for the president and others in Washington to focus on balancing their budget, which they’re a long ways from doing,” -- WI Governor Walker
Crimso,
[The History Channel] doesn't do history anymore, just UFO's, guys with axes, and pawn shops.
Fuck, you mean I've got to get cable now, too?
I can't keep up.
"The fact that Jesse Jackson is there tells me that Gov. Walker is doing the right thing."
It tells me that Justin Bieber was unavailable.
Robert dropped by from Firedoglake and said: "...the meltdown of the U.S. economy after 8 years of Bush and all the despicable behavior of big corporations and financial institutions."
Goddamned corporations. Sons of bitches, melting down the economy by employing people. Greedy bastards.
Hey, I know, let's have the government create some jobs. Who needs all these private employers? The government can employ everyone.
And I'm sure the financial institutions he's talking about here aren't Fannie and Freddie, handing out home loans to unqualified borrowers like Halloween candy. I'm pretty sure he's talking about those evil banksters, making loans to those sons-of-bitches in those corporations trying to employ people to make their damnable "profits".
This situation in Wisconsin is like a zit, and Bobbie is the puss rising to the surface.
I'm sorry but listening to Jesse Jackson's pretty much incoherent rant made me think of Serene Branson's moment of gibberish except Jackson just goes on and on. He needs an intervention.
Ha, the the wv is confutle.. yes, that describes the Jackson listening experience.
Rojer J,
Another douchenozzle like our president.
There's that fucking word again - "douchenozzle". First, Trooper said it, and now it's "douchenozzle" this and "douchenozzle" that.
I thought about what an actual douchenozzle is. Actually, I asked a friend of mine, female type. What the fuck do you guys have against douchenozzles? Is there, like, a douchenozzle problem out there?
Wait - this is a thread about Democrats:
Don't answer that.
I get it. Hey, that's funny!
After spending days feeding the right-wing blogosphere all kinds of smears (they disrespect the flag!), Althouse finally confessed:
"For all the size and noise and sincere fervor, I've seen absolutely no anger, nastiness, or rudeness.
And then what?
You realize they're comparing Walker to Hitler and union thugs are threatening the families of Republican legislators, right?
Althouse is privileged to have tenure at a public university, which has walled her off from the meltdown of the U.S. economy after 8 years of Bush and all the despicable behavior of big corporations and financial institutions. The walled off and secure Althouse seems to think the people protesting in Wisconsin should bear the brunt of the pain of the destruction of the U.S. economy, rather than those who actually caused the economic catastrophe in this nation.
In your utter cluelessness you seem to not understand that the economy has suffered due to 20 years of Barney Frank writing housing policy.
Further, the very first people to bear the brunt of an economic downturn should be those in the public sector.
Your ignorance is a virtue for you, however.
Because this really is like Selma isn't it? And Jesse is telling the lily white fat cat midwesterners that their" struggle" is as noble as that march over the bridge into the certainty of violence. The ghosts of Selma, the heroes of a real struggle, will not be diminished by this grandstanding fool who ran over King's body to meet the press below the balcony at the Lorraine all those years ago.
Everybody stay safe out there and keep your wits about you.
The right to speak should not be confused with the right to be heard.
Civility must be recognized at all times.
And elections have consequences.
Why they are hysterical:
Labor historian Fred Siegel offers further reasons why unions are manning the barricades. Mr. Walker would require that public-employee unions be recertified annually by a majority vote of all their members, not merely by a majority of those that choose to cast ballots. In addition, he would end the government’s practice of automatically deducting union dues from employee paychecks. For Wisconsin teachers, union dues total between $700 and $1,000 a year.
“Ending dues deductions breaks the political cycle in which government collects dues, gives them to the unions, who then use the dues to back their favorite candidates and also lobby for bigger government and more pay and benefits,” Mr. Siegel told me. After New York City’s Transport Workers Union lost the right to automatic dues collection in 2007 following an illegal strike, its income fell by more than 35% as many members stopped ponying up.
So why are all these good liberals opposed to union certification by votes of all the members again?
Crack--go to troopers blogn and vote--I asked my lady friend about douchenozzles fearing the term was probably NSFW so didnt want to google it. Now I know and there is a certain amount of humor to it.
Re technology? high point of fridaya was installing ROKU--now I can tell my kids I dont need them any more and they are out of the will.
"You will need to set a leg down on one side or the other, eventually."
Luther, that's a really weird comment. Why does Althouse have to choose a 'side' here? Maybe she thinks both are partly correct, partly wrong. Why this stamping-my-little-foot-down insistence that she choose a 'side'?
What does 'choosing a side' even mean in this context? This isn't some stupid sporting event, this is real life. Is 'choosing a side' another way of saying 'finding some group and supporting it no matter how much I have to lie and ignore inconvenient data to do so'? I think we have enough people around here doing that, thankyouverymuch.
@MadMan, wa-a-a-a-ay up thread you asked "Why not just shut off the money spigot -- or severely restrict it -- and let each individual city or town or county decide how to deal with things?"
Based on my experience in Northern Virginia, the answer to your question is that the teachers would demand everything for themselves and to Hell with the kids.
But perhaps the teachers in Wisconsin are more noble than that.
Nope.
Ann, there is one very bright spot here: You are going to take a $10,000 pay cut. That makes me happier than I have words to fully express!
Jesse is Jesse--hasnt been relevant for 20 years, but still needs the "adulation."
Peeple, peeple, peeple.....give him a break.
JJ, with no more corporations to hi-jack and his dream of being crowned emperor over, is feeling irrelevant, vulnerable and lonely what with you-know-who and unrelenting media attention constantly sucking the air out of the room.....
Wisconsinites: The all-inclusive Jesse Jackson pocket translator:
Hahahahaha!
“The protesters have every right to have their voices heard, but I’m not going to be intimidated into thinking I should ignore the voices of the five-and-a-half million taxpayers,” said Republican Gov. Scott Walker…
With no end to the standoff in sight, Gov. Walker said that if the Democratic senators do not return, he’d consider cutting the funding that pays for their staff.
“If they’re not here, it begs the question whether or not they need to have staff,” he said. “They’re not performing their functions.”
It is almost as if modern leftists don't understand that actions have consequences...
Another data point:
Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.
Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.
The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.
I guess they believe this can go on forever.
Jesse Jackson = ridiculous person.
"We shall overcome"??? WTF?
If JJ really wanted to improve the chances of the WI public employee unions he would stay away - after all the people who elected Scott Walker are nothing but a bunch of white racist haters, not likely to respond favorably to the self-selected representative of all African-Americans and other oppressed brown peoples.
I say, On Wisconsin. As a non-public employee my unemployed husband and I are getting by quite comfortably on $43,000 a year, no pension benefits, paying $300 a month for my health insurance, plus deductibles etc. Omaha is also being bankrupted by unrealistic promises made to our police & firefighters so my sympathy for the pampered public employee class is nonexistant.
I guess they believe this can go on forever.
Everything does up forever, donchaknow...
Placeholder said...
Ann, there is one very bright spot here: You are going to take a $10,000 pay cut. That makes me happier than I have words to fully express!
LOL. The classic liberal / progressive. It's all about the envy. Placeholder is the kind of guy who would turn down a $10K raise, if it meant someone else got a $15K raise.
People who revel in others' misfortune are ... [fill in the blank]
Attn. Wisconsinites: The all-inclusive Obama pocket translator:
"Really, why is this celebrity from another state grandstanding here?"
Enter Breitbart, Holf, Cain, Wurzelbacher...
the answer to your question is that the teachers would demand everything for themselves and to Hell with the kids.
It would be interesting to see how that would play out here in Madison, where every state worker has had flat pay or pay cuts in the past 5 years.
I think it's hard to ask raises to people who aren't getting them. Teachers understand that, but I don't know if the people running the union do -- they do seem to operate as if it's still 1975, or something -- so my recommendation to the teacher's unions would be to find better leaders.
I guess they believe this can go on forever.
Everything does GO up forever, donchaknow...
Growing up in Michigan, I always heard the pro-union argument for the *employer* was the unions provided a more skilled, better trained, more professional workforce. This was (and probably still is) especially true with skilled tradesmen, who undergo a rigorous apprenticeship program.
However, I think for most employers and with most unions, that argument has gone out the window. I can not think of one benefit a teachers' union provides the *employer*. I do not believe an employer should be forced to deal in such a one-sided arrangement, especially if the taxpayers are the ones who are forced to pay for what is negotiated. Rather than guaranteeing the most highly skilled teachers, the unions have actually forced school districts to hold on to many less-skilled teachers.
So, am I wrong? Is there some benefit the teachers' unions provide the employer? If not, is there a way they could change to be a value-added entity, rather than just a parasitic organization?
eachers understand that, but I don't know if the people running the union do -- they do seem to operate as if it's still 1975, or something -- so my recommendation to the teacher's unions would be to find better leaders.
Alternatively,
We could just eliminate the union.
Teachers understand that,
Then why are they standing in the crowd holding signs that say "I'm a Great Worker"?
I wonder how far into his statement Breitbart will get before some screaming "Teacher" throws something at him. Three sentences, maybe?
Enter Breitbart, Holf, Cain, Wurzelbacher...
At least these guys are relevant in in today's politics.
The SEIU is now calling on it's members to go to Madison and "bloody" the Tea Partiers.
From the "This Ain't Hell" Blog:
http://networkedblogs.com/euUKh
I don't think the protest is about losing benefits. I don't know a teacher who hasn't accepted that. It's about losing the right to bargain collectively.
@ Madisosn Man.
If that is so then I have a solution.
In private industry, the union bargains directly with the owners, managers of the company who get to make the ultimate decisions on compromise etc.
In public government industry like the teachers are not making bargains with the owners of the company (the taxpayers) and instead are bargaining with people that they, the unions, have paid for and got elected through union dues.
If you want TRUE collective bargaining with the public unions and the owners of the company.....I suggest that their bargain (ha ha ha) be put to a public vote.
Let the voters approve the negotiated settlement....or not. Let's see how that works out.
Could you please try to be a little more right-wing? I don't think you're coming off as right-wing enough.
Anyway, Jesse Jackson? WTF. I'm sure your reason for voting for Jesse Jackson must have been a really well-thought out one, and I'd love to hear it some time.
You must be the right-wingiest Jesse Jackson voter alive. (Although I realize your politics has more to do with knee-jerk contrarianism and commenter-pleasing star fucking than much else).
ATTN. Wisconsinites; counter-protest preperation: The Complete Union Primer:
I think we can all agree that there's one thing the Althouse blog needs: MOAR RIGHT-WINGIANISM.
RIght? RIGHT?!?
ATTN. Wisconsinites: What to expect from your unionized police departments:
"Hope KentuckyLiz is okay."
Assuming it's the same kentuckyliz, which it seems like it would be, she's been posting on Catholic.com as recently as a few days ago.
"[The History Channel] doesn't do history anymore"
The History Channel doesn't, in fact, do anything any more. For some reason they decided to rename the whole channel simply "History". That was a WTF moment itself.
Really, why is this celebrity from another state grandstanding here?
It's who he is. It's what he does.
Jackson is in WI. mainly just to hunt for poon.
LOL. The classic liberal / progressive. It's all about the envy. Placeholder is the kind of guy who would turn down a $10K raise, if it meant someone else got a $15K raise.
Hmm. I'm not taking the pay cut. Althouse is. And I'm laughing at her. I hope they bust her union and cut another $10,000 next year.
In your utter cluelessness you seem to not understand that the economy has suffered due to 20 years of Barney Frank writing housing policy.
Considering that the GOP was the majority party in the House for 60% of that time, I wonder why they selected Barney Frank to write housing policy.
I can not think of one benefit a teachers' union provides the *employer*.
I can't think of one benefit Scott Boras provides the New York Yankees -- except to make sure his clients are happy with their contracts.
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