I suppose it’s not that surprising that the idea of a gendered car exists or that certain members of the doucheoisie wouldn’t be caught dead in a Mini Cooper. After all, driving is fraught with gender stereotypes and assumptions....I don't see anything wrong with thinking about the masculinity and femininity of the inanimate objects you associate yourself with. I can decide to wear a frilly dress or a mannish pantsuit or to paint my living room a girlie pink color or a manly dark gray. So what's wrong with shopping for a car and thinking about whether I want a chicky Mini or a tomboyish pickup truck?
[I]sn’t it time we shifted male virility away from large, gas-guzzling automobiles, especially in light of the recent, horribly costly, and damaging oil spill in the Gulf? Maybe the sexes will never agree on who’s the better driver; but can’t we at least, for the sake of humanity, retire the phrase “chick cars” and the embarrassing PR it inspires?
Ah, I see. The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way men avoid feminine things.
पोस्ट्स
१२९ टिप्पण्या:
Even amongst the most 'progressive' of couples...the guy usually drives.
Of course we avoid feminine things. What man wants their man card revoked?
The same day that soccer is as popular as American football is the day that tiny cars and Vespas will be as popular as full size cars and Harleys. Men know their role well...and becoming a woman is not their role since the world is already full of them.
Men have a narrower range from which to chose than women.
I am the most interesting man in the world.
I'd get in touch with my feminine side, but I don't have one.
As to Mother Jones:
1. Cars are bad.
2. Only rubes like traditional sex roles.
The old commie line from a commie rag. Who could have foreseen this?
Lighten up, Mother. Vive la difference!
If you think Mini Coopers are just cute "chick cars," you don't understand much about cars.
Then there are "women drivers" and women who drive. Most of the Mustang SVT's I have seen have been driven, and yes, quite capably driven, by otherwise unexceptional looking middle-aged working women.
Even amongst the most 'progressive' of couples...the guy usually drives
I am not allowed to touch my husband's '65 Corvair. )Not that I want to.) When he takes it out, it sparks admiring glances and conversation at the gas pump. To me, a car is a means of transportation. To my husband, it is part of his identity. He mourned after having to sell (or spend a lot of money repairing the rust) his 1981 BMW.
Some cars with a "chick" reputation in the wider culture are quite fun to drive and have a good reputation among car enthusiasts. The Mazda Miata is probably the classic example.
The list that Mother Jones received from LeaseTrader.com is pretty odd for a "chick car" list. The only one I'd really consider a "chick" car is the Volkswagen Beetle, with the Mini Cooper falling in the "sort of".
The cars in the MJ list of "chick cars" are not per se associated with females; they're just highly economical cars that I see as many men drive as women. Men don't avoid them because they're "female" appearing; they avoid them because they don't respond to hyperagressive driving unless you spend money hotrodding them. A lot og young men do just that. Check out Westheimer Road in Houston any Friday or Satuday night and you'll see what I mean.
The only real "chick cars" are 6 cylinder versions of cars that have an 8 cylinder counterpart such as Mustangs and Chargers. It's rare to see a guy driving a v6 'stang.
That and you can tell MJ has no familiarity with vehicle choices in Texas (probably Oklahoma,Wyoming and Montana, but I have no personal experience to relate). Women can be seen driving pickups almost as often as men do.
As though Mother Jones would have any idea about masculinity?!? Sheesh.
Then I took a look at the list itself. Top of the list is the Mini Cooper? The convertible version of the Mini, maybe -- I've never seen any convertible Mini on the road that wasn't being driven by a young woman. But the Mini Cooper? There are guys who race 'em.
And then I got a little bit further down the list and had to ask myself, they think this is a "chick car"? Not in its 265 HP version with a chin spoiler, it isn't.
Men don't really avoid feminine things, though. Not any more than I avoid Lifetime television at any rate.
It's not "feminine" that men avoid in cars. They're generally going for performance if they can afford to, or for function at the very least.
Not having a big old pick-up truck cripples a person just as much as high heels. There is so much you suddenly can't do without help. Perhaps women are comfortable with dependence?
The old single women I know have pick up trucks. They don't have kids at home and don't need more than two seats in the car. Granted, they have small pick-up trucks, but they do have a truck rather than a cute little girl-car.
@Richard, actually I'm thinking of replacing my ten year old Dodge R/T which has only 6 cylinders and 240 horses with a 2011 'Stang V6 -- 300 horses and over 30 mpg. What's not to like?
Roughly the same logic behind women looking incredibly sexy in men's dress shirts, but men looking ridiculous in the reverse.
Besides, I would no sooner driver a pink compact car than I would own a pick house decorated with ribbons, bows, and the occasional unicorn.
I've ceded interior decor to the wife (while staking absolute tyranny over my mancave and the garage), but she's kept it reasonable. Outside of our daughters' rooms, I don't think we have much in the "frilly" category.
Not having a big old pick-up truck cripples a person
When I bought my first house and was doing a lot of yard work, insulating the attic, etc, I cursed every day that I had a Corolla and not a pickup. Hauling manure, compost, and insulation is a pain in a small car. I seriously considered getting a truck. My life would have been a lot easier.
"Ah, I see. The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way men avoid feminine things."
Why is this a problem at all much less a real problem?
My favorite is the VW Golf/GTI.. Effeminate or not.
Where is the Prius on the list? It should be number one as it is the pre-eminent status symbol of the liberal feminist-vagina man culture. Just look at 95% of the people driving them. No alpha would ever get caught dead in one.
WV: wholisp...why, the betaherb driving the Prius, that's who!!
Well I had to go check out the linked article. Why was the Volkswagen Cabriolet convertible not on that list? I'd put that up there before the Mini.
The "save the environment" schtick was just too much.
And why do some women seem to get their panties wadded up over masculinity?
Peter is of course correct.
I am surprised that the Miata did not make the list. I drove mine for 10 years, but only when wearing something frilly.
Trey
Suburbans are mommy trucks. A few years back, you'd rarely see a chick in a Hummer, but there were exceptions. Now Subarus are chick cars, ahem. Volvos are too, but you sometimes see a guy driving one--if he's whipped. Lots of chicks drive pick'em ups. Young chicks will usually have "bad girl" mudflaps, bumper stickers, etc. Older women drive trucks because they need them to haul hay, big bags of dog food, horse trailers, etc. Oddly enough, I don't see many gals in duallies or diesels, or 'vettes unless they think they're hot, and sometimes they are. As for Minis, I see lot's of guys drive them, but they're usually gang banger wannabes. Like someone commented upthread, you can see young guys driving little riceburners, but they're often tricked out--the baby lowriders are kinda cool. Now cherry GTOs--almost always guys. Same with Firebirds.
Ah, I see. The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way men avoid feminine things.
The problem isn't that we men avoid feminine things. There are certain feminine things we like quite a bit, namely females.
The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way (single) men perceive women making perceptions about men based upon said gendered object.
If (heterosexual) guys thought that women wanted to meet/date/hook-up/intercourse men driving Mini Coopers....we'd all be driving Mini Coopers.
A man who reads Mother Jones is already emasculated. A garage full of Vipers and H1s can't save him.
Someone else probably doesn't need these vehicles, but I see no problem with enjoying them if one wants to. Mother Jones, of course, despises enjoyment in all its forms.
Glug Glug Glug- the librul media and elites are drowning slowly but surely in their own stupidity.
Shouldn't Mother Jones be selling stories that tell its readers "yes it is now OK to shave your armpits"?
I am an unexceptional looking, middle-aged working woman, and I really want a Mustang GT, 5.0 - hey, the 6-cylinder gets 31 mpg on the highway, so that's a good thing. I currently drive a 1999 Grand Am that gets terrible mileage.
I see men driving Minis all the time. The guy across the street has one, a Turbo model, and it sets off my car alarm when he revs it.
My next and last cool car is gonna be a 6.0 [maybe 5] liter Pontiac G8 GXP. It is a fing excellent American hot rod. Someone like GM or Ford should revive this model for future production.
wv= kingfu [Elvis' karate style]
Castration does not occur, except of women; by feminism.
I do like "doucheoisie", though. Not that I'd apply it to guys who prefer more manly motoring.
wv: hinest. Colloquial: "devil take the hinest".
Dear Feminists,
We drive cool cars because they land more babes. The kind that will sell themselves for a sugar-daddy (or a veto of partial birth abortion ban).
"[I]sn’t it time we shifted male virility away from large, gas-guzzling automobiles,"
They really think "we" can shift things this way and that..how typical of the leftist mindset. It's outta your control, dudes.
BTW lots of men here in MT drive Mini Coopers, especially in local govt, which reveals their douchiness. And a lot of women drive tricked-out pickups and large-barge SUV's for macho points.
The Scion - now that's a real pussified rig.
The only real "chick cars" are 6 cylinder versions of cars that have an 8 cylinder counterpart such as Mustangs and Chargers. It's rare to see a guy driving a v6 'stang.
That's going to change. Detroit has come up with 300hp V6s. Good gas mileage, enough power and CAFE increases looming plus the almost inevitable increase in the price of gas will help make that decision for you.
You can even put 6s in trucks. Check out a 1950's Power Wagon - 1 ton payload, true off road capability and a 100hp straight 6. As befits the Conestoga level of handling, you don't go fast but you do get there. And without exception, every modern light truck is a girly truck in comparison.
I never liked cars. Flying was where it was at. I'd bicycle to the airport.
There was always something you could work to get more perfect at under even normal circumstances.
There were no girly airplanes owing to that possibility; though there were certainly plainly macho ones, and pimply-faced student pilot ones.
Lots of conspicuous cylinders and variable pitch prop were the macho end.
Men instinctively know that chick objects drain us of our manly powers. That's why I steer clear of the Harlequin romance display at Barnes & Noble and why I refuse to enter the room at the gym where the women are dancing, spinning, and twitching. And I wouldn't scoff at the notion of chick cars -- where do you think the word "succubus" came from?
Why isn't the RAV 4 on the list. Or is the top 10 lesbian vehicles an entirely different thing?
Paul McCartney is a pussy.
Lem: My favorite is the VW Golf/GTI.. Effeminate or not.
Lem, I'll see your GTI and raise you a TDI
The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way (single) men perceive women making perceptions about men based upon said gendered object.
I don't think so. This is about men perceiving other men. With women, it's clothes, with men, it's cars (cultural generalities, of course... there are always exceptions).
Geez, there's not a single mini van on the list.
I never liked cars. Flying was where it was at. I'd bicycle to the airport.
There was always something you could work to get more perfect at under even normal circumstances.
There were no girly airplanes owing to that possibility; though there were certainly plainly macho ones, and pimply-faced student pilot ones.
Lots of conspicuous cylinders and variable pitch prop were the macho end.
Agreed. To me, a car is transportation and functionality. An airplane is a thing of beauty. I drive a Prius because it meets my needs (great gas mileage and room to throw the grandkids in the back). My wife calls my Cherokee my mistress and she isn't wrong. While I'd love a P-51D Mustang, I'll settle for my 43 year old Cherokee.
Driving a Beetle means you've got no balls. Driving a minivan means your balls have already done their job a few times.
Maybe the sexes will never agree on who’s the better driver;
Pish. Men are much better drivers than women; something about attention spans, reflexes, and temperament.
First time I remember seeing a Mini Cooper was in The Bourne Identity, when Matt Damon's character guided one through one of the best car chase scenes of the last 20 years. It does not strike me as a chick car at all. To me, chick cars are under-powered wimp-mobiles. Any car can be chickified by saddling it with an inadequate engine.
Sure, I drive a minivan, but it's got great acceleration, enabling me to get out of the way of the idiots who are 'driving' around me. A big part of being a good driver is being aware of what's going on around you on the road, so you can avoid getting hit by the people who aren't paying atteniton.
" I'd bicycle to the airport."
Bicycle IS an airport.
Dear Feminists,
We drive cool cars because they land more babes.
Agreed. I bought my Porsche because I liked the car. If I had fully realized the impact it would have on gorgeous women then I would have bought one a couple decades earlier.
On the subject of cars, nobody should be driving a Cooper. Imagine how little is left when you get hit by any other vehicle.
OTOH, how can anything Mitsubishi be girly? These are the nice people who brought us the Zero (in more ways than one).
A couple weeks ago, I was getting in my car in a parking lot and a middle aged woman in a whopping huge tricked out F350 stopped and told me my car was cute.
Should I now feel retroactively emasculated?
Cars are like everything else in life: People buy the largest, nicest one they can afford.
"Should I now feel retroactively emasculated? "
Depends. Did you score with her right then and there in the parking lot?
No?
Well then yes, you were emasculated.
On the other side of this is a women who drives a "guy magnet". Take the Audi TT for example...
Ah, I see. The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way men avoid feminine things.
Althouse, you have a way of cutting to the heart of the matter. Well done.
For some feminists, it is enough that society places no obstacles or restraints on a woman's (or man's) free will choice -- if she has the talent and the desire to do "x", it is enough if society does nothing to impede her ability to do x. For other feminists, this is not nearly enough. If free will choices do not yield perfectly equal gender outcomes -- the same number of women as men in each and every profession, hobby, or other human endeavor -- we must change those professions and hobbies until the numbers become equal. If that doesn't work, we must change the people.
I count myself among the first group of feminists. I'm scared by the second.
For me, it's not the car he drives but whether he can take the damn thing apart and fix it--and even make it better than it was.
Mechanical skills are verrrrryyyyyy sexy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My husband does, in fact, classify certain cars as "chick" cars. Well, I don't care. He's free to pick the vehicles...
...so long as I get to watch him fix them.
Purrrrrrrrrrrrr.
wild chicken wrote: "They really think "we" can shift things this way and that..how typical of the leftist mindset. It's outta your control, dudes."
Really.
Is there nothing that they think they can't fix? Does their arrogance know no bounds? What have they actually, you know, accomplished to make them think this way?
I have little kids in the office who think they are just like grownups. Every week brings a new little hitler.
I have their mom pick them up. Then I have mom put up her hands for them to pick her up. Some of them are so clueless they actually try!
Too bad I can't do the same with these amazingly (and inaccurately) self confident progressives. Maybe November will do this for us.
Trey
"The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way men avoid feminine things."
Yep - men being men - that's certainly a problem.
Glad to see the word "macho" popping up this thread without a negative connotation attached to it.
I am what I am - driving a (small) pick-up truck.
Hagar said...
If you think Mini Coopers are just cute "chick cars," you don't understand much about cars.
LOL
I agree. a Mini in British racing Green with a competition suspension is a thing of beauty
Meh, I'm comfortable enough with my own sexuality. Besides, I'm getting past the age where I'm vain about my potential fuckability to the opposite sex.
I'll drink Cosmos. I like fruity drinks from time to time. Sometimes we'll go into a bar and the wife orders a beer while I get some pink thing in a martini glass.
"Where is the Prius on the list? It should be number one as it is the pre-eminent status symbol of the liberal feminist-vagina man culture. Just look at 95% of the people driving them. No alpha would ever get caught dead in one."
Dude, I drive a Prius. It's also the car of choice for people who don't care all that much about cars. In my mind, car lust is pretty pointless until you get into Ferrari territory. Maybe Aston Martin or Maserati. But people drooling over sad sack everyday driveabout cars? Fucking pathetic.
So yeah, I drive a Prius. It was a hand-me-down from my mother-in-law. It drives fine, gets awesome gas mileage and doesn't require much maintenance. Before that I had a cheap Saturn that had similar qualities.
Does the Prius get me chicks? No, but it doesn't matter because (1) I'm married and (2) my actual penis still works.
Does your car get you chicks?
Speaking of feminism..
Althouse doesn't seem interested in the Van Der Sloot story.
Too tabloidi perhaps ;)
I agree. a Mini in British racing Green with a competition suspension is a thing of beauty
Chili red with black bonnet stripes is rad too. There is something beautifully minimalistic about the mini. Doesn't hurt BMW is making them too :)
Does your car get you chicks?
You ask that as though one should not be interested in women.
The type of car is not a crutch. It is the icing on the cake.
A ball player who bats .250 is pretty good. If he had a bat that allows him to improve to .300 then by all means use it.
Lem said...
Speaking of feminism..
Althouse doesn't seem interested in the Van Der Sloot story.
Too tabloidi perhaps ;)
Not enough proof yet. Give him a couple of weeks in a Latin American prison. One way or another, he'll probably be singing.
WV "fookema" (no kidding) Make up your own.
Doucheoisie?
That's an insult that's just fraught, fraught with gender stereotypes.
But seriously, does anybody still read Mother Jones?
Does your car get you chicks?
You ask that as though one should not be interested in women.
Not at all! But I'm dubious about the effectiveness of a car in getting women to take interest in you. Until you get to the Ferrari threshold, of course. Oh, and what kind of women are you looking for if a car is your hook?
The type of car is not a crutch. It is the icing on the cake.
Some of our cakes are manly enough already.
"Dude, I drive a Prius."
Says the vagina-man.
"It's also the car of choice for people who don't care all that much about cars."
In these parts (SF Bay Area) it the car of choice amongst pretentious liberal douchebags attempting to display their progressive and enlightened commitment to Gaia and the fight against global warming. Really it's just sanctimonious preening, but looking at the women who drive them (frumpy to homely) as well as the men (screaming betaherb nerds almost to a man) you can see a desperate need for some sort of status enhancement, even if it is only amongst their own peer group of losers.
"Dude, I drive a Prius."
Says the vagina-man.
Sorry man, got a penis, don't need an ersatz version.
"It's also the car of choice for people who don't care all that much about cars."
In these parts (SF Bay Area) it the car of choice amongst pretentious liberal douchebags attempting to display their progressive and enlightened commitment to Gaia and the fight against global warming.
I live in SF. I'm also a Republican. And I drive a first gen Prius that's beat up and looks like hell. But it runs great and costs me almost nothing to maintain. Fill it up once a month and it gets me around.
Really it's just sanctimonious preening, but looking at the women who drive them (frumpy to homely) as well as the men (screaming betaherb nerds almost to a man) you can see a desperate need for some sort of status enhancement, even if it is only amongst their own peer group of losers.
I think that you're projecting a wee bit. I have no doubt there are some sanctimonious douchebags driving these cars, but again, they're just cars. There are also sanctimonious douchebags in pickup trucks and BMWs. There are sanctimonious douchebags on bikes and on the sidewalk. Big effin' deal. Have you considered that you're too wrapped up in this notion that you are your car?
"[I]sn’t it time we shifted male virility away from..."
STFU!
Men also live in a competitive society filled with other competitive men. Going weak and frilly is one option, but you do limit your circle of male friends that way. But going too strong can also be a problem in parking spaces next to larger SUVs and F-250s. They seem to enjoy slamming their heavy doors into shiny S-500's doors as they scream "Ford's Akbar".
"There is something beautifully minimalistic about the mini."
Perhaps but, I can't go there. The idea of coming out of a biker bar and finding my car carefully placed upside down in a handicap spot is just too embarrassing.
Real men can drive a truck (full sized, American) or the General Lee.
Okay, a Shelby Cobra is okay too. Or Steve McQueen's motorcycle from The Great Escape.
You can drive Burt Reynold's Trans Am from Smokey and the Bandit, but you are a poser. Better would be Gene Hackman's Pontiac LeMans from the French Connection.
But Mark Walhberg did drive a mini cooper in The Italian Job...
Which is why that movie sucked!
"Have you considered that you're too wrapped up in this notion that you are your car?"
No, because I select a car for comfort, speed, large trunk capacity, and one that is neither too flashy nor embarrassing. So I drive a Lexus ES300 as it meets all those criteria. However my wife and I get a kick out of looking at all the Prius drivers and how uniformly they fit the stereotype of the people I describe. I also know and work with many liberals and am well aware of their motives and common psychology.
You are an exception to the rule but I NEVER see beat up Priuses either for that matter.
You do seem to protest too much about your penis, fuckabilty, and macho cred though so you might want to reflect on that for a bit.
Paul is one of those conservatives that will heroically defend the freedom to purchase and drive any vehicle one wants.......that he agrees with.
"Chick Cars' Don't, in Fact, Castrate Men."
That is exactly right. It is castrating bitches that castrate men.
It is just a coincidence that the dude is always driving a Prius.
First time I remember seeing a Mini Cooper was in The Bourne Identity, when Matt Damon's character guided one through one of the best car chase scenes of the last 20 years. It does not strike me as a chick car at all.
As I recall, in the movie it actually was Bourne's chick's car.
While I don't see even the slightest problem with a man avoiding feminine things, I think the mini is a pretty great car for a guy.
It's a fast nice handling car. It's just smallish. Now, most VWs are feminine in my opinion. As are Audis, even though some 'men' like them.
The problem mother jones has is that it hates men and manliness and wants men to avoid valuing their sex. They want men to look like those actual douches on Calvin Klein ads. Cute they use the term douche, though.
Oh, and what kind of women are you looking for if a car is your hook?
Oh, you doubter. Trust me, I didn't believe it either. But it's true. They are gorgeous. They may have been interested anyway, but the car makes things happen faster.
And what kind? The fun, beautiful kind. The bookish nerdy beautiful kind. The party til ya drop kind. The quiet demure kind. It works on just about all of them. There are exceptions, but who would want to hang around them? :)
Just as a stradivarius won't help me sound better on a violin, a nice car won't help out a loser. But the nice car works if you've got something to work with. It won't make you superman, but it will work to break the ice.
You can scoff all you'd like, I'm just reporting the results.
I have a miata that I bought as a track car. It is in very good condition, but it doesn't get the attention from women that my Porsche gets. I didn't seek that attention from the car, it just happens.
That's why Mother Jones magazine, beyond being a communist rag, is out to lunch. Men like cars for the status they bring. Women are valued for their beauty, men are valued for their status. Pick up trucks confer a status as a strong, no nonsense man. Sports cars confer a status of having enough money to splurge on something fun especially if the man is serious about the car to take good care of it. People like them and Mother Jones is not going to change human nature.
You do seem to protest too much about your penis, fuckabilty, and macho cred though so you might want to reflect on that for a bit.
That's pretty rich from a guy who uses the epithet "vagina-man" because I drive a particular model of car.
This whole thread is about the phenomenon of conflating cars and sexual identity. I just want to point out that not all of us operate that way.
I have lots of nice stuff, but my masculinity is more defined by "penis, fuckabilty, and macho cred" than anything I purchase.
I have never driven a car. Don't have a license. So I don't have a dog in this fight. I always take the train.
I do know that when the train goes from the sunshine into the tunnel it has some symbolism involved.
But I don't worry too much about that.
This whole thread is about the phenomenon of conflating cars and sexual identity. I just want to point out that not all of us operate that way.
I just want to point out that Steppenwolf had that concept nailed a long time ago and I don't mean Hermann Hesse: Link
wv "halite" a genus comprising fluorite, chlorite, bromite etc.
e.e.cummings, she being brand new
rhhardin: That is absolutely wonderful, as are you for linking to it.
wv: aereduan
Someone who's actually a car guy can probably do something with that better than I can.
That rhhardin guy seems able to attract the chicks. Wonder what kind of car he drives?
"That rhhardin guy seems able to attract the chicks."
It's not the chicks, it's the the chickens. And the Dobermans. Just Sayn'
Chick cars are the most monstrous plot ever conceived, to rob men of their precious essential fluids. I first became aware of it during the physical act of love. Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred. Women... women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my essence.
It's not the chicks, it's the the chickens. And the Dobermans. Just Sayn'
I resemble that remark!
As I recall, in the movie it actually was Bourne's chick's car.
Yep, was an original mini. The chase scene in Ronin was pretty tits too. Looks like a de-badged BMW M5, and the unmistakable throaty sound of that I6 is just pure sex.
I was given my father's truck to butch me up but it's a little bit too small for me. Ha ha ha ha ha.
Well, my "chick" and I both like driving our SUV - it has power to spare, room to spare for munchkin, dogs and all the accouterments, plenty of head and shoulder room for me (the main reason I would hate to drive most of the cars on MJ's list) and a badass grill that probably looks like impending death in the rear-view mirror of the average Prius, Fit or Scion.
The chase scene in Ronin was pretty tits too. Looks like a de-badged BMW M5, and the unmistakable throaty sound of that I6 is just pure sex.
I always preferred the Audi S8 in that film. Now that was some serious muscle.
Lesbians have a thing for Toyota pickup trucks with caps. Or Subaru Foresters. I think they like that firm ride.
wv: fingledn. Won't go there.
Some cars are just more oriented to one gender than another. Guys like flowers, but putting a little bud vase in the New Beetle was not oriented towards most guys!
Is there nothing that they think they can't fix? Does their arrogance know no bounds? What have they actually, you know, accomplished to make them think this way?
Pretty much like any missionary wanting you to adopt their faith.
Yeah, but missionaries don't tax me bro.
Trey
And missionaries are responsible for very few laws actually.
Trey
Now that I think of it, missionaries have very, very small armies.
Trooper York, I always assumed you rode a horse.
@Beth, point of information. The 5.0 is a V8.
"Ah, I see. The real problem isn't the gendered object. It's the way men avoid feminine things."
Althouse,
The irony is that in the actual auto industry, the one that exists outside of Pulley's mind, the opposite is true. Men buy "chick cars" in large numbers, whereas women tend not to buy "guy" cars.*
So Pulley's basically inverting the facts in order to have something to get pissed off about.
And lets not even get into her assumption that we owe the number of large gas-guzzling automobiles on the road to men seeking virile cars. I'll only point out that the popularity of that symbol of American consumption and waste, the SUV, increased dramatically during the same timeframe that the number of women buying automobiles increased.
This was not a coincidence.
* See: http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/20/cx_dl_0523featslide.html
Lesbians have a thing for Toyota pickup trucks with caps. Or Subaru Foresters. I think they like that firm ride.
I'm a man, yet I drive a Subaru Forester. On the other hand, the lesbian image isn't necessarily a bad one, after all many lesbians go unshaved ....
Peter
The problem is that chicks don't buy big trucks that they can move their own stuff around in.
Only gay women want men to drive chick cars, cause they can't get a guy to move their stuff anyway.
Why would anyone care what someone else drives?
It's like caring that your woodworking neighbor makes cabinets out of oak instead of cherry.
If your neighbor is working his wood, it's unlikely he's into cherry.
Why would anyone care what someone else drives?
It's like caring that your woodworking neighbor makes cabinets out of oak instead of cherry
Well, one has the unambiguous stamp of masculinity while the other will make your manhood shrivel and cause fertile women to shun you in public, didn't ya know?
The ultimate "chick ride" is a F-350 Lariat XLT extended cab diesel duallie offroad 4X4. Now that shows 'em who is queen of the road!
Pontiac G8 GXP. It is a fing excellent American hot rod
Which was (briefly) made in Australia. Future collector's car, especially with CAFE emasculating most performance cars in a few years.
If you think Mini Coopers are just cute "chick cars," you don't understand much about cars.
I have a brother in law with a Mini he races on the weekends. It cost him a fortune, but that thing really, really moves and could not be called a "chick car".
Hagar,
The XLT Lariat is one sexy ride--works both (all) ways, too.
Yeah. Real men guzzle gas and spew pollution.
If you don't, you're a girly man.
I think dave chapelle said it best, beginning just before the 1 minute mark.
I definitely dont see a problem with men choosing cars that women like. I dont see it as expressing an aversion to expressing their like of girlie things; on the contrary, it is in fact a well thought through expression of their like of women themselves ... the car is a tool for expressing something else.
BUT, It is perhaps the case that to insult another man for driving a feminine car is denying that a car can be liked outside of its purpose of pulling women, and that choosing a car in this way reflects that one doesnt like women (which I think is the assumption). That seems narrow minded and homophobic.
MadisonMan,
People like Pulley care because the automobiles that we (Americans) drive reveal deep truths about our sexist (or violent, wasteful, and/or generally evil) ways. The same is true of the music we listen to, the commercials we see, the movies and television programs we watch, and so on.
Twenty-first century "blog feminism" is full of this stuff. Here's a mild example and here's a more bitter one. (The first link is to Feministing, the second to Salon.)
Basically, it's not acceptable anymore for some people to say that they like something (small cars, a particular band, or a movie) and make an argument as to why other people should like it too. These days, they must attack, demonize, and shame other people for the choices that they make.
Big Mike, correction noted. Okay, I want the V8.
bagoh20, lesbians can't get men to move stuff? You misunderestimate chivalry, or lesbians. I'm not sure which.
"AlphaLiberal said...
Yeah. Real men guzzle gas and spew pollution.
If you don't, you're a girly man."
That's not true. There is a whole other host of reasons why you are a girly man.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Own it! You might even get a show on Logo or something.
Alpha,
"you're a girly man." You said it. In fairness, I think the jury is still out on both counts.
Now when you speak of spewing gas, you're rock solid.
Okay, I want the V8.
Gas is cheap in NOLA?
Hagar wrote:
"If you think Mini Coopers are just cute 'chick cars,' you don't understand much about cars."
The list is tongue in cheek and designed to get posted in forums where a lot of people will see LeaseTrader.com's name.
I mean, the inclusion of the Toyota Scion and the Mitsubishi Eclipse, two fairly iconic "ricers" guarantees that the list will be posted on tuner forums.
The inclusion of the Mini Cooper on the list serves the same purpose. Those who hate the Mini Cooper are going to repost the list to get a rise out of people who like it, while those who love the car are going to repost it to shake their fists at it.
It's all in good fun.
I saw a Smartcar the other day with a bumper sticker that said "Compensating."
I thought that was pretty good.
The reason women look sexy in man-shirts is because masculinity is superior to femininity.
The reason women look sexy in man-shirts is because masculinity is superior to femininity.
Doubtful. Masculinity has never kicked me in the ass or put me on my knees. Femininity? All. The. Time.
"So what's wrong with shopping for a car and thinking about whether I want a chicky Mini or a tomboyish pickup truck?"
What compels you to devote so much space to such a drivelish question?
Speaking of masculinity, I'm thinking of ways to turn this into a pop-up card.
"It's like caring that your woodworking neighbor makes cabinets out of oak instead of cherry."
I would loose all respect for a man who, given the choice, picked oak over cherry.
Kidding. But just barely
I do really loose respect for people who choose an automatic, unless we are talking pistols rather than transmissions, then it is okay.
Gas is cheap in NOLA?
No, but since I can't afford a new car either, I might was well go whole hog with wishful thinking.
"The chase scene in Ronin was pretty tits too. Looks like a de-badged BMW M5, and the unmistakable throaty sound of that I6 is just pure sex."
I'm enough of a dork to know that this car, which I agree is sweet (E34 style BMW) was badged as an M5 but actually was a standard model. You can tell because it has the single exhaust system. But it did have that I6 engine, and yes, that is a particularly beautiful sounding engine. It's BMW's zenith, still a rock solid design you can buy today only tweaked and perfected from the excellent design from before I was born.
If I had to choose a single car for the rest of my life, it would probably be a pre-Bangle BMW sedan.
Beth said:
""bagoh20, lesbians can't get men to move stuff?"
You misunderestimate chivalry, or lesbians. I'm not sure which."
That's interesting from a man's point of view. The majority of my female friends are lesbians and I do feel obligated to perform my chivalrous duties for them. But, if I have no chance to romance them, then am I not being exploited? I mean all a man expects is a chance to at least cause some desire in a woman, fulfilled or not.
The lesbian race is using my historical position as a servant to justify their exploitation.
This is a civil rights issue!!!
I drive a 1971 American General M35A2, also known as a Deuce and a Half. Got it after the last hurricane. My wife and daughters won't usually get anywhere near it. I forced them to go to the beach with me last Fourth of July. We had every guy from a mile and half in either direction stop by to look it over.
"By contrast, masculinity is vulnerable, diminished by contact with the feminine."
In our eyes.
Most males can truly appreciate a strong woman, but few women can appreciate a weak male. Males are just less demanding, more open minded and have no interest in diminishing a woman's femininity. Women are often trying to change men even if it means removing the man part. Thus we get:
"[I]sn’t it time we shifted male virility away from..."
Can you even imagine men searching for ways to get the femininity out of women. We love you - you can barely tolerate us. At least it often sounds that way in the culture lately.
Bagoh20,
Yep, you're exploited. Please don't tell your lesbian friends that I blew their cover.
I can't figure out their motives, but my experience with some straight male friends is that they just enjoy being useful, and maybe they instinctively preen a bit for a female audience, no matter the orientation. I have two particular male colleagues, each topping 6 feet, who can be counted on to try to out-carry the other, sometimes to the point of stupidity. Once I had to empty a classroom of old CRT monitors. I went off to get a cart and came back to find them carrying two each, one on each shoulder, down a flight of stairs. I figured that was not about me, and all about something they were proving to one another. I've learned to appreciate the help, and I do my share, so I don't feel condescended to.
The reason women look sexy in man-shirts is because it shows how securely we believe we are feminine, how strong our femininity is. It's not lost by connection to something masculine. By contrast, masculinity is vulnerable, diminished by contact with the feminine.
Thereby following the Althouse rule to a T ;)
Actually, it was that long ago that masculine dress was considered de-feminizing. I remember movies of my childhood where the girl, for some practical reason or other, dressed in mannish clothes for most of the movie and the hero thought of her as only one of the guys until, at the end, there has to be a scene where she does her hair and puts on something frilly and she's suddenly a 'real woman'.
On the other side, there are effeminate men (or at least effeminate male styles) that women find sexy -- think of Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean for example -- or was Depp's 'vulnerable masculinity' diminished by the guy-liner, the earrings, the beaded braids, etc?
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