"We are following a different path that we think is healthier, promotes better families, and better communities."...
"Christians should be looking for a way to take care of one another without forcing their neighbor to contribute to their welfare. In essence that's coveting your neighbor's goods through the agency of the governments you create."...
"Making the government an idol is the problem. That's what stands in the way of Christian sanctification... It's hands off mainly things like our family, our children, our bodies, our health, and even our money, the fruits of our labor. These don't belong to government."...
"We originally anticipated thousands and thousands of people overwhelming these smaller counties.... We had people moving, that were moving, but they were kind of putting the cart before the horse, because they weren't living independently. They were just showing up and saying 'Okay, where's my house and where's my job?' We're like, 'Uh, no, it doesn't work like that. '"....
"Personal secession are things like homeschooling, house churches, home gardening, home-based economics, just regaining privacy and a sense of community rather than worrying about what's going on in Washington, D.C... What's the latest thing from the Supreme Court?"
२९ मे, २०१०
"We are not living off the grid as much as we are creating a new grid, a more wholesome grid."
Conservative Christians drop out.
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Self-sufficiency is the absolute fastest road to extreme poverty, economically speaking.
Government grows to break the machinery of economic trade, is the problem.
It does no good to break the trade yourself once again!
You have to break the government's hold on economic trade.
They're talking about secession, not self-sufficiency.
True, rhahrdin, but our own government has assured the same thing with its endless spending, the nationalization of industries, and the socialization of risk. One could argue (and some have) that their behavior was in the past the very origin of modern capitalism, and it seems to me they're doing a monastery-in-the-middle-ages thing here, saving the core of a successful society and walling it off from the deluge to come.
Know it or not, they're going Galt, immanentizing that eschaton. Put another way, it's the end of the world as they know it, and now they feel fine.
Mike Munger on farming and making your own shoes for a simpler life, a podcast hour well spent.
Honestly, it's CNN. How much do you trust the source?
Victor Davis Hanson did a post on this from a cultural point of view, that is, he doesn't know about 'American Idol', doesn't follow sports anymore, hasn't seen many new movies, etc. (if anybody can find a link...)
As I read it, I realized I had been doing the same thing for some time and I don't think it's just because I'm older. It's like going to the Internet for news - you're just sick and tired of all the years of knowing you've been lied to by the Lefties.
In any case, it's interesting that people who are opting out of the Establishment Media culture and dependence on the government use the word, 'secession'. I'm sure all the little apparachiks will be screaming you know what.
PS To whichever Leftist twit said I had a 'plan' for a civil war in this country, no plan and no wish for it, but only a fool will refuse to see how people are beginning to separate themselves; how we're seeing hardened enclaves of ideology (think Pelosi Galore's district as much as Rand Paul's).
Just another variation of Utopianism. If we can just get away from the evils of society (or government) then everything will be OK.
Shouldn't the headline for this story be "Protestants re-discover joys of monasticism"?
They've already found poverty, and they're soon going to discover the reasons for chastity and obedience.
How long until they start founding "orders", like, fer instance, the Sons of Holy Mother Liberty, Descalced.
A liberal doing something similar to this is a freethinking, environmentally progressive visionary.
A conservative doing the same is a reactionary terrorist in training.
I expect the Geico announcer guy to record another PSA reminding all intelligent people to beware of these potential suicide bombers.
We're at the point where it's increasingly socially unacceptable to share a community with anyone/anything that you disagree with ideologically, and technologically possible to make virtual communities based on shared beliefs instead of geography or culture. Realistically, are there any widely held beliefs that hold America together anymore? We're not talking about secession, we're talking about dissolution, morphing into virtual idealogical nations that happen to be stacked on the same real estate, like in Stephenson's Snow Crash.
Mennonite is the new black.
I think they mean they don't plan on paying taxes.
I think they mean they don't plan on paying taxes.
Quite the logical leap of faith there.
I think what they are saying is that the government should not be your first option to address every issue.
His Holy Church and Christian Exodus each say it is hard to track how many followers they may have, because many people who believe in their movements also don't like to be tracked.
Sounds like a story about a Facebook group that has a lot of followers. Weak as water.
Wow, bunch of pansies in here. Concierge dependency, anyone?
So, the power goes out, and the guy's furnace quits. The phone doesn't work. He goes out to drive into town for help, but his car won't start. Near panic, trudges to the next house down the road.
The neighbor is Amish. He says, "I'd be pleased to help you, friend. Please help me understand what the problem is."
There's not a thing utopian or monastic about removing Caesar's foot from your throat. Not trading with the enemy is not the same as not trading. The agencies I "disagree with ideologically" are staying up late at night thinking of news ways to destroy my way of life. They're not shy about calling me the Enemy. One day soon I may take them at their word.
I think they mean that they are sick and tired of being told what to do by an intellectual meritocracy in Washington that has little experience and less practical ability.
The people in the story can actually do things.
As evidenced by the imbecility of the Obama administration, our government cannot do much very well for very long.
Except waste our money.
A few Christian bloggers have been writing, since Katrina, anyway, about ideologies becoming idols. It's an interesting argument. I think American protestants are more susceptible to it because their religion has little mysticism or smells and bells or "outward" manifestations. So Ronald Reagan becomes their saint, the flag becomes their holy rod, the constitution becomes, well, I don't know what but something "holy." Their patriotism sort of becomes almost their religious expression. You don't see this so much with Orthodox Jews or Christians, or the catholics.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
There are a bunch of good reasons to withdraw to some degree from a world gone mad. For example: if you home school your kids don't learn about bogus theories of global warming and do learn how to spell. Raising a bit of food is sensible, cheap and delicious.
However, total withdrawal begins to look like the creation of some sort of cult of righteousness. That way lies madness.
Between the communication capabilities of the Web, and the low cost of transport in the US, it may
be possible to produce a 'Virtual
Community' whose members live just below the Tax line, but well above
the poverty line; They would need some strong common psychological
bond, such as religion. :)
Listen and I mean really listen to the radio new breaks for just one day. Use NPR, CBS, Fox News whatever. The news stories are almost exclusively "the President this" and "the White House that" over and over all day long.
So I embrace a message that says we don't want or need the White House in our lives 24/7. And I mean every president not just the current one.
Why not? States are so unweildy. Let us set up new groups and orders!
The folks at Reason were suggesting that government's desire to overreach may be thwarted by the populace growing increasingly accustomed to freedom.
Optimistic, but not impossible.
An important thing about the government stealing our money under color of authority, and giving it to people who support it.
It all breaks down when the producers of goods and services refuse to accept stolen money in exchange for goods and services. Barter for fixed amounts of gold has the advantage of barter, and the liquidity of money.
Biblical Christians have writings that come from a time when the (Roman) government was an oppressive entity. By contrast the Roman Catholic and Episcopal Churchs have traditions from a time when the (Roman) Government supported it as their state religion, and oppressed dissent
Self sufficiency is far from the high road to poverty. Sewing for yourself, cooking from basic ingredients, raising a garden, and fixing your own car are more financially attractive because it's money you don't have to earn and pay taxes on. The higher taxes get, the more financially attractive these self sufficiencies are.
I'm wondering what happened to "in the world but not of the world."
"salt and light"
You know, stuff like that.
Denton: "The higher taxes get, the more financially attractive these self sufficiencies are."
Exactly. They aren't attractive for themselves. The success of modern civilization (or ancient civilization) is the advantage of labor specialization and exchange of value.
The parasite classes (through the state) impose ever-increasing burdens on such exchanges, destroying the advantage. In the process they are undermining the basis of civilization.
Visions of a simpler life free of outside interference is a common longing or theme in America. This sounds more than a little bit like Midas Mulligan's Valley* but with a whole lot more dogma.
Why do utopian visions all eventually break down? Because those with the actual skill sets and capital needed for independent living are incredibly rare. Those who haven't and can't mooch on those who have and can.
In the end, they have traded one dependency for another.
* aka Galt's Gulch
This story brought this article to mind:
http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Evolve_to_Freedom
Got this via a post on the blog, "Rethinking the US":
http://rethinkingtheus.com/2010/05/18/problem-centralization-solution-more-centralization/
The rest of the story aside, I really resonated with this statement: "Christians should be looking for a way to take care of one another without forcing their neighbor to contribute to their welfare. In essence that's coveting your neighbor's goods through the agency of the governments you create."
Christians are called upon to help others, even in extreme circumstances. For those on the political left, they think Obamacare and other government programs designed to help others are a good thing. My problem with it is that such programs are essentially forcing other people -- who may not agree with your goals and purposes -- to contribute their help and resources. I have a problem with that. I never thought of it as violating the commandment about coveting, but it's a good point.
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