***
The Democrats immediately shifted into the theory that anger over the bill is simply not allowed. They merged that anger with actual violence, and they took whatever reports and threats of violence they could find and, in turn, merged them with the anger over the bill.
***
Can we identify neutral principles about anger and violence? How much free expression of anger do we accept in our opponents? When will we listen to it as part of a valuable debate? When do we stigmatize it as part of a system of violence? If the answer to the last question is whenever it serves our political interests to do so, then we are making propaganda.
पोस्ट्स
२७३ टिप्पण्या:
273 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Amen, to all of it.
It's curious to the legislative winners are so angry. Is outrage a permanent condition for these baby boomer far-left liberals?
Ann,
These people simply aren't going to engage in a debate. "We" aren't making propaganda ... THEY are. Did you learn nothing from Alinsky?
In order to have a conversation with these people, they would have to respect us first. They call us "teabaggers" ... as in "dip a man's scrotum into our mouths." On what level can you converse with such a people?
I no longer want to talk to them. I don't want to engage them. I no longer wish to seek common ground with them. I've eliminated all friends and acquaintances who have liberal leanings and who spout this sort of shit. They are pariah's in my life and I've told every one of them I want nothing ever to do with any of them ever again.
Engage with these people? I want nothing whatsoever to do with them. I just want them gone. If that's electorally, I'm willing to wait until November. Otherwise, I'm just as willing to see a revolution occur in our politics.
As our President unceremoniously informed us: "The time for talk is over." They are no longer explaining things to us; they're just doing things to us and they don't care what we think ... we're racists and terrorists and we deserve it. That's how they rationalize their despotism.
It's time to end the power such people have over our citizenry.
One way or the other.
Where you stand depends on where you sit.
I expect, and can easily handle the left's weak attempts at logic but am much more frustrated by the media's willful blindness in these kinds of stories. I didn't say I was angry enough to throw a brick through a window on the 33rd floor so settle down.
Oh, poor Republicans being treated so badly by Democrats! So sad that there is no Daddy's shoulder for you to cry on like there was for Bush!
This is a fucking race to the bottom.
Besides, when did the Republicans ever listen to dissent? They were awfully quick to show all those Ron Paul supporters the door back in 2007 - 2008. The party chose purity and political expediency. Now it's reaping the rewards of its choice.
They have absolutely no comprehension of what they have unleashed.
My Dutch mother-in-law, an RN, has been liberal enough to attend several Code Pink demonstrations. That her Hungarian pathologist husband is a conservative who says quietly to me "The best thing about America is the secret ballot." only adds some spice to the dynamic.
This (formerly??) very liberal mother-in-law has been so disgusted by the Democrats' health care juggernaut that she now quite openly states the extent to which she detests Nancy Pelosi and has lost all respect for Barack Obama.
When you've lost Leintje deNijs over health care ... you are probably in much deeper trouble than you can yet imagine.
Oh, poor Republicans being treated so badly by Democrats! So sad that there is no Daddy's shoulder for you to cry on like there was for Bush!
While I know there is a tendency for threads to go off track I'm wondering if you could clarify for the rest of the class what this comment has to do with anything with the thread topic.
I mean other than your standard reflexive slam against conservatives and the GOP.
How much free expression of anger do we accept in our opponents?
I think it depends. When the G8 or whoever it was met in Seattle back in the day, I think the cops cordoned off a few blocks for the 'protesters' to unleash their fury in the form of smashed storefronts and overturned cars.
If I recall from the pictures and videos, those protest groups were pretty monochromatic in color too. Amazing how race didn't factor in their protests like it does with the Tea Party.
THEY ask "why do they hate us" because the Left hates America for the same reasons. It's a way of gaining credibility by gathering support for their arguments from THE OTHER.
The Left is not going to ask "why does the Right hate this policy?" because the answer is of no benefit to them.
it's pretty obvious, finally, that Barry really did hear what Jerry Wright was screaming and did agree with it.
If you want to educate yourself on where some of this hate germinates, check out the curricula at a few local colleges, look for gender studies and critical race studies classes, check them out.
It's what these assholes are talking about. Social justice.
If there is social justice involved, you can fuck off if you don't like it.
@Hoosier Daddy-
...clarify for the rest of the class what this comment has to do with anything with the thread topic...
Sure! The question for me is: What is the alternative to the Democrats? Who is making the coherent logical opposition case?
I don't see anyone doing it. Instead, what should be the opposition party keeps talking about how bad Democrats are rather than presenting an alternative.
Just think about it! Republicans will tell you how great Federalism is and how the judicial branch needs to toss out the health care bill as unconstitutional. Then, in the next breath, they'll tell you that states shouldn't be allowed to make their own decision on, say, medical marijuana, and that the judiciary is activist and needs to defer to the legislature.
But, eh... those inconsistencies ain't a problem, ya' know, because the Democrats are just so tricky and sleazy...
They were awfully quick to show all those Ron Paul supporters the door back in 2007 - 2008. The party chose purity and political expediency. Now it's reaping the rewards of its choice.
You mean that tiny Minority of 9/11 Troofers, and Libertarians who believe that we need a Gold Standard and a Linberg Foreign Policy, the guys that represented about 5% of the Republican Party, THOSE people?
No they got beaten, handily in the primaries, not "shown the door."
"Oh, poor Republicans being treated so badly by Democrats! So sad that there is no Daddy's shoulder for you to cry on like there was for Bush!"
See ... Ann.
These people don't respect anyone. They don't want to debate the future of our country. They are angry and bitter children who have stolen the keys to their parents house and are lording it over their parents standing bewildered outside on the sidewalk.
They're having a temper tantrum.
These aren't the sorts of people who can be bargained with or negotiated with because they're the type of people who don't pay their debts, welsh on bets, screw over their friends and family when borrowing money, etc.
You've all known someone like this. They're douchebags who delusionally think they'll always be in power and can't imagine that we'll ever have an ability to stuff this sort of behavior right back up their fucking asses come the next election.
They don't have the capability to think that far ahead.
I want nothing more to do with them. I don't seek civility. Don't wish to debate. Don't want to talk. Don't want to find common ground with them. They're scumbags.
Just want them gone for good. Don't much care how it happens.
What is really going on with the Democrats is pure fear.
Ask yourself-why is this particular group of "protesters" not allowed to protest?
Start of with-how are they different from other groups of protesters?
Well-first they aren't Liberal, but there is something even more differentiating.
Their age.
It's a little like Banana Republic coup d' etat theory.
If your generals are revolting-big deal.
If your junior corps is organizing -not to worry.
If your middle grade officers are having the long knives out for you-
Big trouble.
So these protesters are very dangerous for a handful of reasons-
They are middle class.
They pay taxes, and more importantly-
their demographic-votes.
As I've stated before I'm no Rush fan so take this with a grain of salt....but I'm not sure equating angry voters/Tea Party activists with terrorists is the best analogy.
(Yes I know that wasn't the specific premise but..)
I guess they forgot all the anger and violence expressed towards Conservatives since 1996. By the media, the oh so progressive groups- hate is a family value- and the politicians themselves. hypocrisy is a Democratic Party value.
They forget the wishes of death by AIDS towards Jesse Helms, the hope Clarence Thomas wife feed him too much so he drops dead of a heart attack, the vile, vicious, violent speech at KOS, MyDD, and Democratic Underground.
Then there is the man who epitomizes hatred and verbal terrorism- Keith Olbermann. Not one Progressive has ever denounced him. Not one has ever called for his firing. Not one.
These incidents are contrived, conceived, and convenient. The whole purpose is to take our eyes off of their prize and turn it someplace else. While they create a new multi-thousand page parlor trick to fool us.
So here we are with the age-old problem that once one destroys decorum for the sake of short-term expediency, it is very hard to restore it in any credible fashion on grounds of principle when the proverbial shoe is on the other foot. A modest suggestion: If the liberal community wishes to be more credible in its concern about contemporary extremist anti-administration rhetoric, then they might try the following: “Please, let us avoid extremism and do not fall into the same trap as Baker, Chait, Keillor, Gore, Moore, or Range when they either expressed open hatred toward their president, or speculated about the assassination of their president, or compared their president to a fascist. We must disown such extremism, past and present."
Link
Spot on Professor. The discernment of Propaganda from sincerity is a skill that is not valued as much as it used to be. The Ameican Idol was fun and interesting show when we could use those discernment skills, but lately it has become boring since ALL of the particpants from Judges to performers have become phonies with no sincerety welcomed or expressed anymore. Maybe the only acceptible goal is to be a con man now.
".. Then, in the next breath, they'll tell you that states shouldn't be allowed to make their own decision on, say, medical marijuana."
That explains it. Angry drug dealer.
Shut up, they explained.
Sure! The question for me is: What is the alternative to the Democrats? Who is making the coherent logical opposition case?
Yeah great question. Still doesn't seem to have much to do with the topic at hand. I mean I don't necessarily disagree but from my perspective, your initial comment just appeared to be the usual feces flinging anti-con rant.
This may come as a complete shock to you but both parties are chock full of inconsistency. I wasn't aware that the GOP in Congress was taking such a strident stand on states allowing medical ganja. Maybe it got lost in the din.
I'm agnostic on social conservatism. I could care less if homosexuals want to marry, join the Army, if there is abortion on demand or if you want to smoke weed to make your back pain go away. I believe in fiscal responsibility and a strong defense. There are a few on both sides of the aisle that would follow those principles and remarkably, seems to be the thrust of the Tea Party movement.
"I've eliminated all friends and acquaintances who have liberal leanings and who spout this sort of shit. They are pariah's in my life and I've told every one of them I want nothing ever to do with any of them ever again."
I'm sure they're all broken-hearted, as in, "Thank God! I thought I'd never get that insufferable asshole out of my life!"
Hey, Althouse, you were promoting Cantor's lies just yesterday. When do you correct your false story?
The bullet that hit U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor's campaign office in downtown Richmond early Tuesday was random, Richmond police spokesman Gene Lepley said this morning.
"It is a stray bullet as part of random gunfire," Lepley said. Police said they have no suspects.
Cantor's office declined comment. .
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/police_say_gunfire_that_hit_ca.html
So these protesters are very dangerous for a handful of reasons-
They are middle class.
They are Republicans angry Democrats passed a bill they don't like. I love how the minority alleges to speak for the majority, after the ass beating they just took around the country at the polls.
Another point-the "middle class" has always been notoriously hard for the Liberals to get under "control".
The wealthy-are first few in numbers, have the guilt that is associated with wealth and aren't going to miss their tax dollars as much as the middle class. Relative to the middle class the wealthy have a surplus of dollars and aren't going to miss them when they go to taxes. Also they are going to use their wealth to bribe those with power.
The lower classes are beholding to Liberals because they are dependent on the entitlements that the Liberals give them.
The middle class is a different story. They dare to dream-they think they can make it.
The middle class when you tax them-they notice.
That's why to get the kind of state power the Liberals always seem to crave-they have to crush the middle class.
Democrats have to find ways to rein them in-getting them by their health care is a huge step towards that.
I hear a theme coming on.
"If I were Elin... man, I would have hit a lot more than she did. I would have kept hitting!"
"You would still be swinging the golf club?" "Yeah, (Elin) stopped. She was respectable. I'd get the baseball bat, I'd get everything out."
Exellent.
I've eliminated all friends and acquaintances who have liberal leanings and who spout this sort of shit.
Same here, including a sibling.
"But, eh... those inconsistencies ain't a problem, ya' know, because the Democrats are just so tricky ..."
Are Democrats consistent? Is Obama consistent?
Is Obama anti-war, or has he expanded the war? Did he bring troops home, or send more?
Has Obama closed Gitmo?
Does Obama order the deaths of brown people with robot drones from faraway safe places?
Does Obama hate gay people?
Did Obama order the murder of people of color in Yemen? Somalia?
Didn't Obama campaign against requiring people to purchase health insurance?
Julius ... you don't give a fuck about consistency or Obama would make your head explode. You're just fishing around looking for an excuse for your becoming a Nazi and you've settled on "inconsistency" as your excuse.
Look, it's like this.
A) One political party constantly uses violence-laced language to incite people.
B) Threats and actual violence ramp up and occur in the wake of that party's defeat.
C) The party on the receiving end of the violence will abso-fricken-lutely say something.
That Ann Althouse thinks it is wrong that people on the receiving end of threats and violence speak out shows how far gone she has become.
garage-
I'm talking about the protesters-they are middle class.
Who do you think they are?
Do they look filthy stinking rich to you?
Being a hillbilly and all, I love what Ann has been doing lately. This is important stuff and the sun needs to shine on it bright and long.
And there is nothing wrong with the hillbillies agreeing with you, or anybody else when you speak the truth. When you are going the right direction, even smelly hillbillies want to jump on your truck. The question is why would others want to stand lost on the roadside, just to avoid being seen with those stinky people.
Right Alpha the stuff your Liberal senators and House members said about US forces -the way they tried to smear them as a whole was just patty cake.
Please.
A) One political party constantly uses violence-laced language to incite people.
I know it always angered me when liberal Democrats would march in the streets chanting "No Justice No Peace!"
Instead, what should be the opposition party keeps talking about how bad Democrats are rather than presenting an alternative.
One does not have to smell your breath to know where your head is at. In order to get the alternative out- the message- you need media. The majority of the media are in the tank for the Progressives and the President. He has resisted any criticism- criticize him at your peril. You get no access.
The Conservatives have the message. They have the market. They do not have the mass media. The media they do have is not wide enough. That is not going to change anytime soon.
JRH - what you're saying is that those who disagree with you must meet your standards on how to disagree with you. Makes perfect sense.
NOT!
@NewHam-
I am no longer an Obama supporter. I voted for him as Althouse did, but I will not vote for him again.
If you have such vitriol for me, I would love to see what you have for a real Obamabot.
I love how the minority alleges to speak for the majority, after the ass beating they just took around the country at the polls.
And I love how the majority complained that the minority is obstructionist even though they are powerless due to the ass beating they took at the polls.
Oh wait...that's because the obstructionists were within the majority party that Nancy had to beat down or bribe to get the bill passed.
As you were.
Alpha, most of the real (not fabricated) violence in the last year has been against conservatives and by union thugs. Therefore, I agree with you, except on who the victims are. And please don't ask for links - this has been discussed and liked to death and you already know it.
"'I've eliminated all friends and acquaintances who have liberal leanings and who spout this sort of shit.'
Same here, including a sibling."
You've probably given your sibling the gift he or she has always wanted.
They are Republicans angry Democrats passed a bill they don't like.
Then how do you explain all the Democratic voters and progressives who are against this bill? What are they? Converted Republicans?
Man, you really have gone around the bend. You used to make sense.
AlphaLiberal asked: "One political party constantly uses violence-laced language to incite people."
Anser: Democrats
Proof: Democrat National Committee: "... Senate Democrats are going to fight them every step of the way. And this fight will be different than any other fight in the history of the Senate -- because it will include you."
So, here's proof the DNC uses violent "fighting" imagery in the US Senate.
You're projecting, AlphaLiberal. Projection is a psychological mental illness.
When our side gets back in power, I hope you're committed so you can get the psychological help you need.
I know it always angered me when liberal Democrats would march in the streets chanting "No Justice No Peace!"
Liberals protest against violence being waged. Right wingers protest for violence to be waged.
What nonsense. The concerns over this bill have been endlessly debated—far more than our rush to war, which truly did ignore the worldwide protests. But thanks for continuing to rationalize violence, after all the police have confirmed that the gas line was intentionally cut, that there was a real package of powder sent to Weiner’s office, which seems more directed than the bullet that fell through the window of Eric Cantor's office building, and while the spitting incident was not digitally recorder, there were witnesses. This kind of anger is merging into violence. And much of this anger springs from the twisted logic that helping folks to health insurance and better lives is un-American. And clearly this is fueled by the rightwing rhetoric that takes pleasure in apocalyptic fears—what could be a better example of propaganda?
"Alpha, most of the real (not fabricated) violence in the last year has been against conservatives and by union thugs. Therefore, I agree with you, except on who the victims are. And please don't ask for links - this has been discussed and liked to death and you already know it.'
Meaning, you're making shit up.
The child like Progressives got the free pony. Pony's grow into horses. Will they be willing to clean up the horse shit this bill creates? Or will the leave it to the adults, as usual.
The knee jerk liberals here want to talk of threats of violence all day long just as if any of them ever happened. That IS the propaganda duly noted by the Professor. It is becoming very boring.
You guys are in huge trouble.
These protesters are of the demographic group-that will actually follow through and vote.
No wonder you want to smear them by any means necessary.
Heck- Barbara Boxer of all people is underwater or barely treading in the-
Field Poll.
She loses to Campbell, comes out ahead by only one percent to Fiorina, and only wins by a lousy 4% against DeVore. Devore who is I think a back bench state senator with little name recognition.
The Field Poll-anyone worth their salt in Cali politics knows that this polling company has a fantastic record for calling them in California.
"If you have such vitriol for me ..."
I don't have vitriol for you. I asked you a series of questions designed to reveal to you your own inconsistency.
I urge you to look inward.
You claim in one breath to damn the inconsistency of Republicans and yet you voted for Barack Obama and support Democrat policies that are inconsistent with his own rhetoric and campaign materials.
He is pure evil - a murderer - ordering the deaths of brown people for political expediency. And you're here supporting what he does.
I'm sorry Republicans won't legalize your pot. If it was up to me, you'd get all the dope you could smoke and a nice quiet place to smoke it for the rest of your life.
At least then you wouldn't be a risk to my childrens future.
I chose not to participate in this divisive discussion.
Wait.
…
Damnit.
Instead, I will retire and construct a greeting card that pops out, one that amuses me, then send it off to inflict upon an unsuspecting subject chosen at random and for no good apparent reason. Then return later when you're finished here.
"The child like Progressives got the free pony. Pony's grow into horses. Will they be willing to clean up the horse shit this bill creates? Or will the leave it to the adults, as usual."
No. A Pony is not a horse that hasn't grown up, but a different type of horse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony
"Meaning, you're making shit up."
Really? And after I go play your silly game and put a bunch of links you will just do the old deflection and change subject. I've played the game, It bores me.
You read the stories you know the truth, so why do play stupid? Can't we just discuss things without the games.
"Liberals protest against violence being waged."
Garage,
Please link me to comments you've posted protesting against the violene that Barack Obama is waging on people of color in Somalia. And in Yemen. And in Pakistan.
Your President is murdering people in your name to keep from having to put them in a prison.
Please link me to your protests of this activity. Because I don't think you've ever posted a comment critical of Barack Obama's murder campaign in the Middle East.
But if I'm wrong, I'm sure you can provide a handful of links real quickly.
Oh wait...that's because the obstructionists were within the majority party that Nancy had to beat down or bribe to get the bill passed.
Boy they like to forget that particular fact don't they.
Quite a rant by Limbaugh :-)
He is right about the left being known as the ones who want to "understand" their adversaries. And I don't disagree with that. Understanding is a good thing. I wish it was valued more!
But it has seemed obvious since Obama took office that he as not at all interested in "understanding* the "other side" - which represents about half the country. He seems to enjoy mocking and ridiculing those who disagree with him - rather than trying to find common ground with them.
Obama has been destructively polarizing. And now he seems to be ramping it up. Someone said the left wants to paint all republicans as extremists. I don't think that's possible. What he and his Congressional allies are doing, it seems to me, will not lead to anything good.
The country is more important than a healthcare bill. It is not worth it to get a win "by any means necessary" - esp if that means is tearing the country apart.
3/26/10 12:35 PM
The left only wants peace and would never call for violence.
http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html
I'm looking for footage of scabs trying to cross a picket line but I'm not having any luck.
Link
@Robert Cook,
Kenneth Gladney. Victim of racist SEIU thugs. Caught on video tape(s). Charges- minor ordinance misdemeanors. The Democratic Party in St Louis County quashed the whole thing. He was ridiculed by the racist left media and bloggers; insulted, demeaned, and dehumanized. SEIU pays big money for these things. Just like they bought the President.
Anyone else would have been charged with a hate crime, been investigated by the FBI, and facing massive legal bills and prison time. Eric Holder has said nothing about this racist crime- though he is worried about justice for Arab terrorists. Barack Obama did not invite the Nazi Purple shirts and Mr. Gladney to the White House for a beer.
But, Gladney is getting support. Can you say civil rights lawsuit? How many other racist, Nazi crimes has SEIU and other progressive groups got away with?
The Dittohead Althouse ignores the long track record
* Sarah Palin telling her fans "don't retreat - reload" as she uses rifle crosshairs over Dem member names and districts.
* Michael Steele, saying that Speaker Nancy Pelosi should be put on "the firing line."
* Republican Minority Leader John Boehner saying a Democra who supported health care reform would be a "dead man."
* Michelle Bachmann wants people "armed and dangerous"
* Representative Steve King to a Tea Party crowd" "Let’s beat that other side to a pulp! Let’s take them out! Let’s chase them down! There’s going to be a reckoning!"
* Republican Devin Nunes, mischaracterizing the legislative process to excuse violence and threats: "When you use totalitarian tactics, people, you know, begin to act crazy, And I think, you know, there`s people that have every right to say what they want. If they want to smear someone, they can do it."
Ann Althouse has not a critical word for such speech. She has not standing to call for "neutral principles." (while quoting Rush Limbaugh NO LESS!)
What a hypocrite!
Right wingers protest for violence to be waged.
Wait...you mean all those protesters carrying signs that said Death to Bush! and 'We support soldiers who shoot their officers' during the pro-Terrorist rallies were right-wingers????
Damn and I didn't get an invitation either.
...after the ass beating they just took around the country at the polls.
Yeah we lost in Va., NJ, and MA. OH WAIT...
You're definition of the "Majority" and "Minority" must be a Post-Modern one...as the POTUS and HCR are STILL under water, poll-wise...
Previously, when a book and movie were published sensitively describing the assassination of PRESIDENT Bush, both received awards. Now if the exact same art was made with the only change being Bush to Obama, does anyone think awards are what they would get? Without killing a Republican president, you just can't get such art to be cool and awardy.
This poll done by WPRI in Wisconsin conducted March 7-9-
Has Thompson UP by 12 % against Feingold!
What is going on?
wpri.org
Is this a Limbaugh listener, ya think?
Keep on inciting, Limbaugh and Republicans! Keep making up those excuses, Althouse!
Tennessee Man Enraged By Obama Sticker Slams SUV Into Car With 10 Year Old Child Inside
@AlphaLiberal, who erroneously wrote: "Ann Althouse has not a critical word for such speech."
Yes, she does. She rightly labeled what you're doing "propaganda." As in what Goebbels did for Nazi, Germany.
That seems like a very critical word to me.
Our side does want people armed and dangerous, because it keeps government despots like you in check. Our forefathers are mostly to blame, since they violently overthrew their government to form this country.
Alpha, we have a proud history of political violence in America. Your side shot and killed Americans in a political dispute over slavery. Are you saying that slavery should be brought back? Or that it was right to kill political opponents over their slave-holding views?
Bill Ayers, friend of Barack Obama, helped kill people to end the Vietnam war.
Are you renouncing Barack Obama, Alpha?
Excellent post. Your last sentence has the lucidity and inevitability of Orwell clinching an argument....I strongly oppose the health care bill. I suppose someone, somewhere will benefit by it. Tattoo models will no longer have to live their lives under the dark shadow of contracting hepatitis. But me, personally, I am absolutely certain that I will get worse care after a longer wait and pay more for that privilege. That puts me on the peevish side, but what really rips it is the Democrat characterization of my irritation as due to racism. They are not trying to reason with the opposition but to marginalize it.
Don't forget the right wing man who recently shot up the Pentagon
"Internet postings linked to the suspected gunman in a Pentagon subway shooting suggest long-held frustration with the government's reach into the private life of Americans.
The suspect, John Patrick Bedell, 36, died after exchanging gunfire with two police officers. He spent weeks driving to the Capital area from the West Coast, authorities said Friday.
A blog connected to him via the social networking site LinkedIn outlines a growing distrust of the federal government. The blog suggests a criminal enterprise run out of the government could have staged the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. "
Patty Murray in Washington state-she should be pretty safe right?
Well-guess again.
If Republicans could convince Rossi to run against here she loses in both the latest Rasmussen and Moore Info. polls.
Keep on inciting, Limbaugh and Republicans! Keep making up those excuses, Althouse!
Alpha, just out of curiosity, when the liberals were holding signs calling for Bush to be killed during those pro-terrorist rallies over the years, did that upset you?
I wonder were you also enraged when they one guy had the Palin effigy hanging from a noose in his yard?
Why not just admit that there are extremists all over and extremists of a liberal bent are just as numerous. Or you can just play denial and don't.
FLS and his Tu quoque fallacies.
I support the armed and dangerous position. There used to be a principle called majority rule and minority rights. The Dems have stomped minority rights, and rights in general, into the ground.
Remember when right wing activist Scott Roeder shot Dr George Tiller dead?
A blog connected to him via the social networking site LinkedIn outlines a growing distrust of the federal government. The blog suggests a criminal enterprise run out of the government could have staged the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. "
That's funny Alpha. I mean really when you connect a guy who is a 9/11 truther as right wing. Hell was there a link to Rosie O'Donnell?
"Alpha, just out of curiosity, when the liberals were holding signs calling for Bush to be killed during those pro-terrorist rallies over the years, did that upset you?"
Dude,
AlphaLiberal will post whatever he's paid to post. He's not consistent. He's just doing his job.
He's the one paid to come here and spew the Democrat Party Talking-Point-'O-The-Day.
It's pointless to engage him. He isn't paid to talk to us, but to try to get Althouse to change her speech.
He's a member of the rebel alliance and a traitor. Take him away!
Oh and good shooting on the part of the cops too. Most right wingers would not be shooting up the Pentagon.
Hoosier daddy:
Alpha, just out of curiosity, when the liberals were holding signs calling for Bush to be killed during those pro-terrorist rallies over the years, did that upset you? .
I never experienced that or saw it, myself. I saw photo's of such homemade signs by individuals from links posted here.
That was wrong and stupid.
Now, I posted incitements to violence from Republican leaders, not some lone loon at a protest. do you see anything at all wrong with that?
Remember when Barak Obama's friend Bernadet Dorhn praised Charles Manson? "Dig it! First they killed those pigs and then they put a fork in pig Tate's belly. Wild!" She said of the LaBiancas (who were repeatedly stabbed): "Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson!"
"How many other racist, Nazi crimes has SEIU and other progressive groups got away with?"
Quite a good question. The assault of Mr.Gladney is certainly abhorrent, and his assailants, if convicted, will receive punishment surely due them.
But...does this incident constitute any sort of wave of violence of any kind, much less of violence against conservatives by liberals?
Hey you know maybe there is hope for you all in Delaware.
You know, Biden's old seat.
I mean come on Delaware-that's got to be a Liberal state.
Oh wait....
The Daily Kos poll has the Republican candidate Mike Castle up by-
12%!
Well maybe Rasmussen is different-
oh shoot...
Rasmussen has him up-+21%.
"Now, I posted incitements to violence from Republican leaders, not some lone loon at a protest. do you see anything at all wrong with that?"
AlphaLiberal, do you condemn Barack Obama for his friendship with the home-grown domestic terrorist Bill Ayers?
Or do you condone political violence?
Was it right for northerners to kill American slave-holders to change the slave politics in America? Or is political violence wrong?
Which is it, dude?
Political violence is either acceptable, or it isn't. Can't have it both ways.
Can't be for it when it suits you and against it when it doesn't suit you.
Look, we have done this shit to death: Your side has this asshole. But your side has this guy. Your side has more. No yours does.
It will never get anywhere or change any minds, at least not the ones here.
It really is lame at this point with the one-upping.
There are questions worth discussing though:
When is political violence acceptable in a nation like ours?
How the hell do we get the mainstream media to cover it fairly, so we can fairly decide when movements are going too far? Not just the ones they don't like.
Quite a good question. The assault of Mr.Gladney is certainly abhorrent, and his assailants, if convicted, will receive punishment surely due them.
I defy anybody to watch this clip and show me where this assault occurred.
But...does this incident constitute any sort of wave of violence of any kind, much less of violence against conservatives by liberals?
EXACTLY, but from the other side we get folks having the "vapours" about "rightwing violence!" When the reality is, there isn't much violence on EITHER side...but one side sure seems to get all weepy about it...as long as it's directed at THEM, rather than at a POTUS or Administration they hate!
And Cookie, those guys you cited weren't rightwing, at least two of them...I'd say thye were Lefties and/or Troofers. Saying someone is "rightwing" doesn't make them rightwing. After all even the Christian Science Monitor discovered that those terms really don't fit the violent that well.
The Dittohead Althouse ignores the long track record..
There’s a fallacy of rhetoric called the tu quoque — in other words, “you did it too.”
You-too version
This form of the argument is as follows:
A makes criticism P.
A is also guilty of P.
Therefore, P is dismissed.
The use of this fallacy avoids having to answer the question Althouse posted -
How much free expression of anger do we accept in our opponents? When will we listen to it as part of a valuable debate? When do we stigmatize it as part of a system of violence?
Liberals cant answer that honestly when talking about how to intimidate people from crossing a picket line for example.
AlphaLiberal,
You're a really bad spokesman for your side.
In the world you would have us create, political violence would be ruled out as a means of achieving political goals.
So, in the world you would create, the Republicans could bring back slavery and you would advocate that political violence couldn't be used against them.
That's racist, dude.
You think political violence is only out of bounds when you're the target. That's cool. I understand your motivation. But don't make out like you think it's always bad. You don't. And it's patently transparent that you think political violence is OK as long as it's your side doing the violence.
You're not getting any traction with your bleats because it's pretty transparent that you don't even believe what you're saying.
You think violence is just fine if the political goals are goals you agree with.
Everybody here can see that.
You have no clothes, dude.
I never experienced that or saw it, myself. I saw photo's of such homemade signs by individuals from links posted here.
That was wrong and stupid.
That's big of you.
Now, I posted incitements to violence from Republican leaders, not some lone loon at a protest. do you see anything at all wrong with that?
Oh please. You honestly believe those are incitements to violence? I mean seriously? * Michael Steele, saying that Speaker Nancy Pelosi should be put on "the firing line."
FIRING LINE?
Lets put it this way Alpha, if that is what you consider incitement to violence, you are one sensitive little boy. If the GOP is going to incite violence they need to up their rhetoric game.
I defy anybody to watch this clip and show me where this assault occurred.
garage is right. The black guy was a klutz and fell down over his shoelaces. The SEIU guys were just trying to help him up.
"It will never get anywhere or change any minds, at least not the ones here."
First sensible thing said.
As Barack Obama said: "The time for talk is over." Let's fucking rumble. It's going to be a rumble. Everybody knows it. So let's just fucking get to it already.
So you agree Hoosier?
I defy anybody to watch..
This kind of rhetoric is not helpful garage ;)
Since the assignation of Caesar was not shown clearly in that video it obviously did not happen. Sheese the logic of it all.
The base of all this is that the Demos, like the rest of the National Socialists, hate America and will only love it when it becomes their vision of the United Soviet Socialist States of America. Or has anyone forgotten Hillary's version of the pledge of Allegiance, "I pledge allegiance to the America that is yet to be."
When the disciples of Alinsky talk about civility, it's only to be able to play victim while they gear up to vilify someone. This has been the pattern for forty years.
AlphaLiberal said...
Hey, Althouse, you were promoting Cantor's lies just yesterday. When do you correct your false story?
The bullet that hit U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor's campaign office in downtown Richmond early Tuesday was random, Richmond police spokesman Gene Lepley said this morning.
"It is a stray bullet as part of random gunfire," Lepley said. Police said they have no suspects.
They didn't know that at the time. Talk about lies!
Look, it's like this.
A) One political party constantly uses violence-laced language to incite people.
B) Threats and actual violence ramp up and occur in the wake of that party's defeat.
C) The party on the receiving end of the violence will abso-fricken-lutely say something.
In answer to A and B, you obviously mean the Demos - eight years of death threats against the Bush administration.
C, that's what the Republicans - and the people - are doing and will be doing all the way to November.
garage mahal said...
So these protesters are very dangerous for a handful of reasons-
They are middle class.
They are Republicans angry Democrats passed a bill they don't like. I love how the minority alleges to speak for the majority, after the ass beating they just took around the country at the polls.
Keep leaning on that USA poll. As I said in the other thread, most voters (important word you'd like to forget) hate it. Rasmussen has 55% wanting it repealed, and then there's this excerpt:
"But has public opinion really changed so much? A CNN poll taken over three days, the last of which was the day Obamacare passed the House, found that 59 percent of those surveyed opposed the bill, versus 39 percent who favored it. And a CBS survey done after the vote showed that more people believe it will hurt the health care system than help, and 89 percent of Republicans and 66 percent of independents believe the GOP should continue to challenge parts of it."
This is pretty funny.
Link
I don't know if you have to be a member.. maybe not.. I hope not.
Garage your silence on Obama's violence Crusade against brown people in the Middle East is deafening.
I thought you were against violence?
Where are your posts condemning Barack Obama's use of violence against black people in Yemen and Somalia?
Do you support his murder of these people of color?
I notice you're ignoring these questions on Barack Obama's use of violence to achieve his political ends in the Middle East.
Are you against political violence, or not?
Garage, I just noticed something.
When Barack Obama is killing black people in Yemen, you get really really quiet all of a sudden with your protests.
When it's black-on-black killings, you seem strangely silent.
Why is that?
garage
How about your Senate Majority leader?
I could look up his polling for you.
Reid, Daschle...
If the answer to the last question is whenever it serves our political interests to do so, then we are making propaganda.
These are rhetorical questions, right?
Keep leaning on that USA poll. As I said in the other thread, most voters (important word you'd like to forget) hate it. Rasmussen has 55% wanting it repealed, and then there's this excerpt:
Well, we'll see if you're right in November won't we? If you are, more people agree with the Republican position, Republicans should run on repealing it, and the majority of people will vote for Republicans as a result. If they don't take one or both chambers, wouldn't you agree it would be disastrous for the GOP?
And, let's not forget McCain campaign worker Ashley Todd, who committed fraud:
'Campaign Volunteer Faces Charges In Attack Hoax
Ashley Todd told investigators today she "just wanted to tell the truth" -- and was neither robbed, nor attacked
Todd, 20, is now facing charges for filing a false report to police
A campaign worker who claimed she was the victim of a politically-motivated attack in which she was beaten, kicked and cut, now admits that she made the whole story up.
According to Pittsburgh police spokeswoman Diane Richard, Ashley Todd, 20, told investigators today that she "was not robbed and there was no 6'4" black male attacker."'
Talk about projection!!
Some idiot writes:
The base of all this is that the Demos, like the rest of the National Socialists, hate America and will only love it when it becomes their vision of the United Soviet Socialist States of America .
Really, you've gone around the bend.
Lem - the reason for the tu quoque is that the libs are looking for reasons to excuse and justify their violence, not stop it.
garage-
Actually you might get a taste of what's coming up for your side in November a little sooner.
The special election for Murtha's seat is-
May 18th.
AlphaLiberal said...
And, let's not forget McCain campaign worker Ashley Todd, who committed fraud:
Are you SURE you want to talk about FRAUD, in this thread Alpha...of does ACORN not ring a bell?
NewHam
It's impossible to keep track of your schizophrenia. Reading your posts is like riding a carnival ride.
Lefties who kill: Sirhan Sirhan and Lee Harvey Oswald would come to mind.
Lefties who incite or perpetrate violence: radical environmentalists who burn down neighborhoods, anti trade nutballs that smash property during their "demonstrations",
Lefties who try to intimidate: black panthers outside polling places with nightsticks on display, ACORN chauffeured goons who protest at the homes of AIG employees.
Etc.
Surely it is agreed that this is tearing the country apart. There seems to be no one interested in reconciling - or even speaking of it.
This article talks of the country splitting
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
Here is the article:
link
AL continues the "you did it too" ad hominem.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" I heard liberals say in the aftermath of 9/11... and now it maybe apropo in the aftermath of Obamacare.
Ah, but Democrats do understand the anger and violence. It's racism and homophobia and bigotry, dontcha know? Come on guys, keep up with your news! ;-)
Here is a quote from polling done by grassroots PA on the special election for Murtha's House seat-
For instance, Obama’s job approval in the district is 41% (while 50% disapprove) and by a 54/33 margin most voters in this strongly Democratic district oppose the health care reform bill being pushed by President Obama and the national Democrats in Washington, including 43% who are “strongly” opposed. “Of all questions in the poll, these are the most ominous warning signs for the Democratic nominee because they show what a strong headwind he is facing in what has become an increasingly hostile political environment for Democrats this year”, said Jim Lee, SP&R President.
Again these are results for what they describe as a "strongly Democratic district".
Obama with only a 41% approval.
Health Care with 54% dissaproval.
Registered Democrats outnumbered registered Republicans in the district, 2-1, as of November.
mbusa.org
Too funny. One the constant talking points of Leftists here is that our foreign policy in the ME was radicalizing Islam.
Alpha, et al - you're either hypocrites because you never really meant that, just parroted it because it was anti-Bush OR you're too stupid to recognize the parallel when it smacks you across the face.
Speaking of, can you guess how many vets returning from Iraq and AfPak know how to make IEDs?
I don't know off hand exactly which Democrats asked "What did we do to provoke it?" but I know a majority of them voted to wage war on the people Rush claims they were wringing their hands over and wondering "why do they hate us?"
It's also silly to pretend that complaints about Tea Party aggression came out of nowhere. They go back to last summer when no one could get a word in during town hall meetings because the Tea Party agenda was to show up, scream and make discussion impossible. They lost credibility with me at that point. I don't listen to anyone's argument when it's delivered flecked with spittle and rage. Not from the left or the right.
It's nice that they pick up their litter when they're done, though. I think that's very polite of them.
Alpha Libtard: Now, I posted incitements to violence from Republican leaders, not some lone loon at a protest. do you see anything at all wrong with that?"
Obama: "I want you to get in their face. I want you to punch back twice as hard"
Shortly thereafter, MoveOn Goons started biting off people's fingers, SEUI Thugs beat down a black man.
So Alpha, take your distorted quotes and situational outrage and go pound sand.
Beth-
Did you go to a townhall?
You think maybe the Democrat House members frustrated the heck out of them by filibustering and by proving that they hadn't even read the bill?
How about when Sheila Jackson Lee took a cell phone call during a question?
I think somebody lost "credibility" all right.
Let's see - in the course of this comments thread, I'm told that Democrats are "disciples of Alinsky," "National Socialists," "Marxists," "Nazis," "Traitors," ... who's making propaganda, Althouse?
Just don't call them teabaggers though Beth. That sort of name calling is way out of bounds!
Beth: It's also silly to pretend that complaints about Tea Party aggression came out of nowhere.
True, the bogus complaints came out of the Democrat propganda machine, the MSM.
They go back to last summer when no one could get a word in during town hall meetings because the Tea Party agenda was to show up, scream and make discussion impossible.
See, its obvious you were never there. You simply swallowed the swill the MSM fed you, like a good little taxpayer-funded parasite
no one could get a word in during town hall meetings because
Wrong. All the opening questions were directed with the utmost repsect and civility. Its only when the Congress-critters started bullshitting their constituents that it got heated. You insult peep's intelligence with talking points that even a DU goon would laugh at, your audience will get hostile.
They lost credibility with me at that point.
Anyone who follows the NYTs cant be taken seriously about credibility.
And again, note Beth's bias. She's fully funded by taxpayers. If not for the government, she would drown or starve.
And the latest right wing nutjob crawls out from under his rock in response to the Republican hysteria over the health care reform bill:
Snyder read from a copy of the original saying: "It is apparent that it will take a few assassinations to stop Obamacare. Militia central has selected you for assassination. If we cannot stalk and find you in Washington, D.C., we will get you in Little Rock."
Beth: in the course of this comments thread, I'm told that Democrats are "disciples of Alinsky," "National Socialists," "Marxists," "Nazis," "Traitors," ... who's making propaganda, Althouse?
But the first three are known facts, Beth.
How about a High Five if you are paying my mortgage!
[what a great country this is once you learn how to work the levers of public largesse]
And another....
[Press Secretary Adam] Bozzi said Mitchell also received calls at his Tempe home and someone left a note about health care with coal and dog feces at his congressional office in suburban Phoenix. .
"It's also silly to pretend that complaints about Tea Party aggression came out of nowhere. They go back to last summer when no one could get a word in during town hall meetings because the Tea Party agenda was to show up, scream and make discussion impossible."
The SEIU did the same thing in many I saw. In fact, there were published instruction from them on how to prevent others from talking.
Point is, there was little violence on any side. Being upset and vocal and even angry is perfectly appropriate and traditional.
Using that by blowing it out of proportion into calling these people angry mobs and out of control is what is over the line and dishonest. It's purpose is to shut off that side of the debate. This can only lead to making those unwilling to use violence to be forced in order to be heard. If you suppress speech in this way it always leads to violence. We are not there yet, but if people are prevented from speaking they will make themselves heard anyway. If we are really concerned about violence, I suggest we let people speak instead. Discussing their points and not trying shut them up with propaganda about isolated and entirely predictable exceptions that are always there on all sides.
Alpha Liberal at 12:42 Pm:
"* Republican Minority Leader John Boehner saying a Democra who supported health care reform would be a "dead man."
Oh please. Are you referring to this:
"Boehner says there will be major political consequences for pro-life Democrats who break from the Stupak bloc. “Take [Rep.] Steve Driehaus, for example,” he says. “He may be a dead man. He can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati. The Catholics will run him out of town.”
- see http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTc1OWI4MjFkY2Y5YWQ5Y2MxMmYxZDc2MDM5N2QxNmM=
Please, provide context for the quotes you use; otherwise, you come off very, very lazy.
Don't wear those slutty clothes and we wouldn't feel compelled to assault you!
/winger
Jesus Ann, why didn't you cite Rushbo from the onset then I wouldn't have wasted my time looking for the pony in this pile of crap.
True - some folks in New Orleans will never stop being victims of Katrina.
Propaganda- everyone responds to natural disasters in the same way. They can bootstrap their lives back to normal if only the govt gives them a little help for a decade or two or three.
Oh and Beth, Thanks for acknowledging the clean nature of conservative demonstrations. That is important to note: Violent mobs don't clean up afterward. Thanks.
Joe:
Are you SURE you want to talk about FRAUD, in this thread Alpha...of does ACORN not ring a bell? .
Go for it. You mean like when ACORN reported fraud by some of their workers collecting signatures?
Or when fraud was committed on ACORN by the Breitbart boys who creatively edited their ACORN videos to make it look like they visited those offices in pimp and whore costume?
The very same lad is now facing charges.
"And much of this anger springs from the constant lies about the motivation of people who disagree, insisting that it is twisted logic that helping folks to health insurance and better lives is un-American rather than principled differences."
I fixed that for you.
But I suppose this passes for friendly talk... this slander and hatefulness toward people who do not agree... insisting that it's only because they are terrible people.
Because you know... that's friendly talk.
Michael said...
"black panthers outside polling places with nightsticks on display"
ahhh Michael thems be the cops. The stickers be da cops. Da Stickees, they be da panthers.
you racist twit.
Michael said...
"black panthers outside polling places with nightsticks on display"
ahhh Michael thems be the cops. The stickers be da cops. Da Stickees, they be da panthers.
you racist twit.
then I wouldn't have wasted my time looking for the pony in this pile of crap.
Hey! Now you know how most of us feel after an Obama speech.
What is it with Dems-always loking for the pony.
Please, provide context for the quotes you use; otherwise, you come off very, very lazy.
He's not being lazy. He's being intentionally deceitful and dishonest. His only goal is to attack and demean non-liberals. He's full of "anger, venom and bile."
wow, a talking point from Rush.
i'm sure you all are going to town on that one, eh? whipping yourselves up into a frenzy ! All those nuggets of grievance in there, huh ? dems weak on terror, pro-minority, hating republicans, caring more about terrorists than their fellow citizens ! woe is you, eh ....
if you're going to lead off a discussion with so many talking point falsehoods, you clearly dont want to engage. You want to vent. Rush just wants to get you amped up, and to keep coming back.
Rush is clearly very good at what he does.
"Don't wear those slutty clothes and we wouldn't feel compelled to assault you!"
Oh great, now you're being raped and tea bagged. Maybe you should stop dressing like a slut, Garage.
Garage has quite the fervid imagination.
Well said, Danielle. It's incredible that a professor of law at a Big Ten university would also be a dittohead, catapulting Lush Windbag's propaganda.
And that she would also tag this post with the word "ethics" is a joke.
"They made us do it!"
Go for it. You mean like when ACORN reported fraud by some of their workers collecting signatures?
and the tens of thousands of registations that DIDN'T get reported and the indictments formt he same?
Garage mahal, go back to give black Jesus a blowjob.
Or when fraud was committed on ACORN by the Breitbart boys who creatively edited their ACORN videos to make it look like they visited those offices in pimp and whore costume? so they didn't show up dressed like that...any evidence?
He got arrested for something...but not wire-tapping.
there's another take on the image of the TPers over at the Atlantic .
In short it says, in a political environment, of course displays of racist characatures will lead to your whole movement getting painted that way. So why dont you organize and prepare for it like movements of the past have had to prepare for it ?
garage
Please don't burn your bra just yet.
Danielle: Rush was simply asking where the Dems curiosity was as to, and sympathy with, the "root cause" of the violent instincts of Republicans. The liberal commentators here appear incurious, or to have preconceived ideas about the "root causes." Racism, homophobia, too much money and redneckery, of course! Rush was simply making a case proven here: that the left is only sympatico with violence against the right or against the hazy abstraction of America (or is that w/ a k?) as represented by the hideously symbolic World Trade Center Towers?
hdhouse: Love the new uniforms the cops wear. http://media.photobucket.com/image/new%20black%20panters%20at%20polling%20places/Pb43905/New%20Black%20Panther%20Party/NBPP-6.jpg
Ann wrote ... "They merged that anger with actual violence, and they took whatever reports and threats of violence they could find and, in turn, merged them with the anger over the bill"
a lot of your republican representatives are trying to channel/merge the anger into anger about the bill, and using violent rhetoric metaphorically to try to unseat democrats in the fall.
propaganda is painting democrats as the ones trying to stigmatize the anger and as 'hating republicans' and being more sympathetic to terrorists when its actually republicans doing far more trying to whip it up to use it for their own purpose. Rush's purposes are ratings. Palin, Boehner, Steele and other's purposes are congressional seats and fundraising.
Ann, you are furthering that propaganda right now on this blog. ...
"They made us do it!"
And so after all this back and forth, you prove Ann's point perfectly.
Isn't that exactly what the left was saying was Al qeada's justification. "We made them do it." That was real violence - not stories from vested interests.
But as this post is asking? Why don't the Democrats ask why we are so angry? Answer: They don't care. They don't want to hear it. They want what they want, period. The people can eat cake.
"a lot of your republican representatives are trying to channel/merge the anger into anger about the bill, and using violent rhetoric metaphorically to try to unseat democrats in the fall."
And?
I really don't see anyone claiming that people don't use fighting metaphors. Except for the Democrats who seem to have entirely sanitized all of their reality in order to claim this is new and alarming.
Tear gas is only used at Leftie protests-why is that?
Police are natural born puppet haters?
"I don't listen to anyone's argument when it's delivered flecked with spittle and rage."
Beth;
You have every right to ignore them, and dismiss them. But a Congressman's job is to represent the will of their constituents, even the angry ones. They need to find out why the people are angry. Dismissing them because they are angry is a cop-out, and is foolish for them career-wise.
A person's opinion is not necessarily invalid because he/she is angry. People often become angry precisely because they feel they are being ignored.
Protesting is as American as apple-pie, and I (and others) laugh at the attempts to portray the current protesters as somehow any different from past ones.
These comment sections have become intolerable with the Alinsky-ite spewings of Alpha Liberal, garage mahal, Jeremy, victoria, danielle, Julius Ray Hoffman. Beth is the only reasonable liberal in here.
Oh and the very worst offender(which is saying something) is montana urban legend aka Ritmo.
Now Alex, don't be judging them. They are all equal. It's the rest of us who are not.
or it could be that the left has heard your views and grumblings through the *YEAR* long discussion and negotiations on HCR .... and also watched your representatives not engage, but rather try to obstruct.
as you know, you cant always get what you want. elections have consequences.
the anger is not surprising.
the violence related to that anger will not be tolerated, and must stop. i hope we cal all agree on that at least.
Oh dear dogs... is someone trying to claim that there was some deception involved in the ACORN expose' because the intro showed whats-his-name in an over the top Hollywood pimp get-up when Giles used the word "prostitution" during the interviews clear as day?
Can we say denial?
I mean, OMG, the guy didn't look like a pimp! He explained the plan but he didn't look the part! No fedora. No chinchilla coat. No massive gold chains or anything. He wasn't even black!
What do you idiot children think a *real* pimp looks like?
AlphaLiberal said...
Some idiot writes:
The base of all this is that the Demos, like the rest of the National Socialists, hate America and will only love it when it becomes their vision of the United Soviet Socialist States of America .
Really, you've gone around the bend.
The only bend is the one in your mind. When was the last time the Demos or the Left supported this country in any military endeavor, why else champion the likes of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky?
This is what The Zero and Pelosi Galore want; he was quite explicit about in interviews when he was a state senator. An inoffensive, impotent Euro state just like Greece or Ireland. That's what Lurch meant when he talked about our foreign policy "passing the International test" in '04.
And, as one idiot to the king of them, consider this little gem of incitement:
"Get in their faces. Punch back twice as hard".
- Barack Hussein Obama.
And then there's this.
Oh, and, Beth, if you look it up, what The Zero did to the automobile industry and wants to do to health care, finance, insurance, and energy is the textbook economic definition of National Socialism
I take back my last sentence- As a group, the TP's are actually more polite, and cleaner than protesters in the past. And they have jobs and vote.
None of this behavior is OK. To be honest, I could see myself being willing to fight and die for my beliefs, i.e. freedoms in the Bill of Rights, not my country mind you, but my beliefs.
I'm not sure how we got to this point. I was going to blame Clinton/Gore beginning with their first campaign against G.H. Bush. (The grossly disrespectful "It's the economy, stupid.") Clinton and Gore, especially Gore, did their part, but, I think it's more of a generational thing, unfortunately my generation - the baby boomers.
We stomped, cried, rioted and otherwise behaved like spoiled brats in the 1960s and 1970s. We never really grew up and now are the people who are willing to destroy everything if you don't give us what we want. If we can't have what we want, nobody can have what they want. Another reason I think the greatest generation ain't that great, they raised us.
gosh, you'd think when the blogger's husband tells a guy where to go, that if he decides to show his face again that he'd come with some new game.
but i guess that's expecting too much from you, Alex.
Synova: No, no, no. You don't get it. Because the guy WASN'T dressed up as a pimp he was able to fool the ACORN people. Because he WAS dressed like a pimp in the trailers he was able to fool the liberals into thinking that the ACORN people, mostly black, were stupid enough to buy his line. Shows exactly what liberals think of black people.
Alpha said: "Or when fraud was committed on ACORN by the Breitbart boys who creatively edited their ACORN videos to make it look like they visited those offices in pimp and whore costume?
The very same lad is now facing charges."
Virtually single handed, these budding journalists brought down a huge, corrupt, tax money stealing, election defrauding enterprise.
Woodward and Bernstein, there are new heroes in town.
But some think they are the enemy. Amazing how far some "liberals" have fallen. The rest of you need to step away from the poseurs.
Oh dear dogs... is someone trying to claim that there was some deception involved in the ACORN expose' because the intro showed whats-his-name in an over the top Hollywood pimp get-up when Giles used the word "prostitution" during the interviews clear as day?
Ah yea. What the MSM lapped up like warm milk wouldn't even meet the publishing standards of collegehumor.com. The entire thing was a complete farce. That's why you haven't heard anything from the right on it since.
"the violence related to that anger will not be tolerated, and must stop. i hope we cal all agree on that at least."
And who has said different?
This is all BS anyhow. All of it. There have been a handful of incidents across the entire country and we don't even know if they are related. No one is using rhetoric that isn't perfectly ordinary and no one is feeling any anger that is not entirely understandable.
Particularly when faced by insipid condescending statements like "elections have consequences."
So do votes.
But hey... the time for talk is over. Maybe Obama will get around to doing something that isn't entirely destructive to the economy and employment will improve in between his pissing off the next foreign leader and trashing the next ally.
One can Hope.
Danielle:
Hate to tell you this but the anger at the Beltway elites is real and widespread. So the Republicans don't have to focus it or aim it. In fact, the Republicans don't control it Honey.
Look if haters like danielle want to believe that just Republicans are angry, that's to our advantage.
Garage: No need to talk about it anymore, ACORN is bankrupt. Voila!!
INDUSTRY CAREER OPTIONS
BEFORE OBAMA:
Auto
Banking
Construction
Healthcare
Insurance
Medicine
Real Estate
Wall Street
AFTER OBAMA:
Government Job
... and also watched your representatives not engage, but rather try to obstruct.
So the fact that the POTUS talked tot he Republicans not once after April of 2009 is "obstruction?"
Interesting....
"Another reason I think the greatest generation ain't that great, they raised us."
I agree they blew that one, for a lot of us anyway. But, you've got to understand that they came from a past that never had enough of anything. They wanted us to not live that and for the first time they could provide us an easy life with more than we needed. The didn't appreciate the downside of that.
Also, they did not have the huge lessons of a failed Soviet Union and all the other collectivist experiments that have failed so hugely and consistently. We have seen the folly of communes and "give peace a chance" and know much more the about the dead ends.
Still, it's amazing how few of us learn even with that evidence before us. That's not our parent's fault anymore.
"Shows exactly what liberals think of black people."
You may be right about that. I felt sort of sorry for the ladies, even though they should have been just a little bit concerned for their own communities and interjected an "excuse me?" in there at the beginning. I mean... encouraging the pair to take good care of the "girls" and teach them to read and stuff is sort of looking out for them, I suppose, I don't think the women were bad women. But there is actually a chemical reinforcement to "helping", to the sort of interpersonal exchange of providing for another person. It's really *hard* not to try to help, even if it's helping someone to do something bad.
Understanding isn't excusing, but I think that I have a higher opinion of those ladies and what led to getting them in that much trouble than most of those who are so desperately in denial about what was straight forwardly *not* doing good in their neighborhoods or watching out for the dignity of the people they served or the safety of their children.
And hey... I can sympathize with the lady who said to bury your money in the back yard. If liberals didn't have her in chains she might even be a libertarian.
And somebody is still surprised by display of relativist moral of the lefties. Why? Without moral relativism there would be no left. How else would they get their feel-good-about-yourself fix continuously?
(Another) schizophrenic moby or not (a la Alex), novus histrionicus is tiresome.
Agree with the post wholeheartedly. Beyond my disgust at the Dems propagating the talking point (opposition to Obama(care) = violent racist mob), it's the MSM's unquestioning collusion in it that, as usual, makes me nauseous. The same nausea I felt so often during the election. But I take heart in the fact that so many more people, from the very 'center' that voted for Obama, are on to the propaganda now and sickened too. They've had the moly, they're more immune now. May many more eyes open, and remain so.
Michael said...
Garage: No need to talk about it anymore, ACORN is bankrupt. Voila!!
3:03 PM
I would be careful not to asume anything. The sh**t tends to stay afloat. ANCORN leaders need a job now and looking for another cow/useful-idiots to milk. You never know where they pop up next.
(Sorry, I apologize. I don't like insulting other commenters, even if I suspect they're trolls. What do I know? Should've refrained.)
Acorn is simply re-constituting under a new name. I bet they left a bunch of creditors including taxpayers holding the bag with unpaid bills and unpaid state and federal payroll taxes. Acorn will get a fresh start using a bundle of govt grants.
yashu - it's well known I play both sides.
Here is a better idea:
Shut up and kill the enemy.
Haha - the Breitbart film-makers had the charges reduced to mere misdemeanors.
Paul Barge said:
"Shut up and kill the enemy."
That would help bring the unemployment rate down.
If you want better media coverage, lose the loose cannons. It’s on you – any upsides you gain and/or any downsides that come your way. When you start a movement, you own it. It’s yours lock, stock, and barrel. It’s yours to control, to guide. Your opponents and the media, will hold you responsible for whatever happens in the course of those events. Plan ahead. Try to see what they see, the way they see it and present yourself accordingly. If not, your giving it away at your own peril (ahem).
Michael at 3:03: Acorn is bankrupt? Maybe I misunderstood this, from March 19: Breaking: While An Anxious Nation Is Transfixed By The Healthcare Debate, The Obama Administration Restores ACORN Funding. From this, it looks like they are reorganizing and changing names. Excerpt:
One of the latest groups to adopt a new name is ACORN Housing, long one of the best-funded affiliates. Now, the group is calling itself the Affordable Housing Centers of America.
Others changing their names include what were among the largest affiliates: California ACORN is now Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment, and New York ACORN has become New York Communities for Change. More are expected to follow suit.
AJ Lynch, I started writing this before your 3:35, didn't get to posting it till now, so: looks like you have the right of it there.
If you want better media coverage, lose the loose cannons.
Huh what? You realize no one controls the people at tea party events. Email goes out, people show up. There's nothing more to it. Oh, you want a vetting process. What about Code Pink and Moveon.org? Are you as harsh on them?
danielle: propaganda is painting democrats as the ones trying to stigmatize the anger and as 'hating republicans' and being more sympathetic to terrorists when its actually republicans doing far more trying to whip it up to use it for their own purpose.
A bit fuzzy and meandering there, danielle. Let me see if I can tighten it up and streamline it a bit for you -
The nutshell danielle: Any non-concessionary response whatsoever from people I don't agree with, to any assertions whatsoever by people I do agree with, is invalid.
But on second reading, I see you have brilliantly opened up a whole new frontier of moonbat. Old school 'bats would simply stigmatize their opponents' dissent as pathological - or, in our more candy-ass age, "offensive", or "insensitive" - and consider their work done. (Well, aside from the repeating it endlessly.) But you, you glorious bastard-ette, have not only been "stigmatizing the anger", you are now stigmatizing the recognition of the "stigmatizing the anger", craftily leading your enemies into a wilderness of recursive stigmatization, where you shall deliver the coup de grâce by stigmatizing their recognition of your stigmatizing their recognition of your stigmatizing their anger.
Or maybe it's just a Chauncey Gardiner thing you've got going on here, and I'm reading too much into it.
Moira - the whole idea is rather Orwellian by people like danielle. They literally want to control our every thought to the point that the only correct thoughts are those that agree with socialism/Marxism. Fortunately i won't be alive if they achieve such a state.
"Paul Barge said:
"Shut up and kill the enemy."
Just don't get any spit on them in the process, cause that really scares 'em. No need to be cruel.
That reminds me of that scene in "Saving Private Ryan" near the end, when after a fight, hand to hand with a knife, a German slowly kills a GI while shushing him to be quiet while he dies. It's the most disturbing scene to me in any movie yet. The whole time the GI's pacifist friend is standing nearby with a rifle and does nothing as his friend is killed. Later, the pacifist murders some unarmed captured Germans. He finally decided to rage inappropriately after it was too late to save his righteous countrymen.
That describes a lot about politics for me. And this paraphrased from the Talmud:
All who are made to be compassionate in the place of the cruel,
In the end are made to be cruel in the place of the compassionate.
Alex, You do make a better wingnut, but then it's easier, just be logical and just.
k*&%4!thy: If you want better media coverage, lose the loose cannons.
Alex: Huh what? You realize no one controls the people at tea party events.
Hey, credit where credit is due. At least k*thy knows that "to lose" is not the same verb as "to loose", and didn't advise us to loose the loose the cannons. For that I am grateful.
(Not that there aren't circumstances where you might properly be advised to loose the loose cannons.)
"If you want better media coverage, lose the loose cannons."
On the right we don't control what people say. We listen.
Look playing both sides(not all the time) is a lot more fun then just being an earnest conservative. Life is boring enough!
BTW, The media is mostly Loose Cannon Central, at least when the cannon came from the starboard side.
"Can we identify neutral principles about anger and violence?"
Only if we can accept that all people are equal, and the left specifically does not accept that. They have romanticized the Islamic world for five centuries; they are stunned that their foreign "others" could possibly resent being considered exotic children not equal to the western bien pensant.
They have demonized another "other" and that is Southerners, Republicans, capitalists--you know the drill--and so cannot admit that some of them may be their equal as well.
This blog has really gone to shit
ya'll have a nice day and I will see some of you on Volokh
"Look playing both sides(not all the time) is a lot more fun then just being an earnest conservative."
I just hope you wear a condom and wash between switches. That dirty hippy smell gives it away.
Someone mentioned fraud. Hmmm, fraud. 2.3 million dollar check kiting scheme. Part of it to pay his own salary. His wife knew what he was doing and even signed the tax returns. 375,000 is restitution. Guilty plea to bnk fraud of 2.3 million dollars, A FELONY. Slap on the wrist sentence.
Gets out of prison. Goes on book tour for book he wrote in prison. Is lauded as a hero of the left for his forty years of community organizing and operating a political group. Runs a successful political consultancy in Chicago.
Gets invited to White House state dinner. Gets invited to signing ceremony in the House.
A convicted felon. Bank Fraud. Robert Creamer. Husband of Jan Schakowsky. If he robbed a bank or a Brink's truck, Obama would have given him the Medal of Freedom.
Bagoh - admittedly I felt a bit nasty after my last session. However after looking at the latest polls and listening to an ANGRY Rush Limbaugh I'm re-energized to fight these fuckers to the finish.
" Roger J. said...
This blog has really gone to shit
After contributing nothing, Thanks for doing your part.
The necessary part of standing up in a conflict offered by a competitor is to not fear violence. Just lose all fear of it. Even lawyers in a court room have violence threatened by aggressive assholes to see if it works. That's why we keep an armed Sheriff in every courtroom. Life is not peaceful when we reward attackers instead of standing up to them. So why is Obama now acting to reward Iran for threatening and attacking the USA and Israel while he crushes Israel for not surrendering? Hmmm?
The left is deliberately trying to provoke a violent confrontation. They are trying to bring one about in any way possible.
How they think they can win if violence breaks out, has me stumped. Maybe it'll give them an excuse to declare Martial law and suspend the next election. But, do they really think it'll stop at that?
Make no mistake, the goal is to provoke violence. Somehow they'll reach that goal, even if they have to fake it.
This will not end well.
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