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९६ टिप्पण्या:
The need for taxes requires opening many doors. Legalize prostitution, murder for hire, armed robbery, embezzelment, kidnapping, etc...just follow the cash and get a cut. That is the original Mafia system that has worked so well whereever it's been tried.
Let's tax abortion--an abortion excise tax.
We will put an equivalent tax on all live births.
Just to be fair.
That pretty much sums it up, Ann.
Debra...
FEDERALISM!
It's the future, bucko!
Or do you want the country to be shaped to the unrealistic dreams of free-spending liberals?
You are certainly right that the government is flailing about looking for something new to tax. That is certainly behind their attempts to demonize CO2, despite the plant world's (and thus the animal world's) utter dependence on it.
As for marijuana, a lot of people are looking at what's going on now in the border towns of Mexico--the drug cartel wars, accompanied by beheadings, mass executions and the targeting of cops--and beginning to understand what is happening in Mexico today is the same thing that happened in the United States with Prohibition in the twenties.
Perhaps that's one reason here in California hardly anyone gets their shorts in a bunch over marijuana anymore. There are three "medical" marijuana clinics within an eighth of a mile of my house. One of them is in what used to be an old diminutive and never too prosperous mini-mall a few blocks down the street. Now when I ride up the hill past it on my bike, every space is filled with cars, many quite expensive.
This afternoon, my doctor told me that when his patients fill out health questionnaires many of them mention using marijuana for pain relief and insomnia. And a lot more, I suspect, use it for recreation.
Probably the only thing standing in the way of marijuana legalization right now are up-tight types who, judging from talk shows I've heard, are sick with anxiety that someone, somewhere, is having a good time.
Who knew the author of this post's middle name is "Sherlock"?
"Oaksterdam University."
Haha.
wv: antrappl. Uh oh.
Revenant...How can a rational person discriminate among money making enterprises. A tax on a business is a tax, remember Al Capone's downfall. Anyway some threats of Violence are a normal human practice, and no one is perfect. The legalization will allow licenses that will require a course and a test. This will help professionalise the criminals and lead to ethics in crime. How can you be so cruel to oppose that???In any event, the prisions can be turned into rental barracks for legal, taxed sex workers. We are all sophisticated relativists here aren't we? We know that there is no morality except for my aberration of a Calvinist inspired prohibition of all beastiality, including the non-violent type with loving animals.
What might lead to the legalization of marijuana is the blinding need to have stupid fucking lobotomized college drones too stoned to go to the polling places to elect fucking moron politicians like Joe Biden and his girlbitch Barack Obama.
Let's legalize this shit quick.
Methedras:
If you take away the illegality of pot and the crimes that status alone causes (drug arrests themselves, drug gangs in control of the supply), where exactly the victim in marijuana use?
Traditionalguy:
I'm not exactly a big "legalize all drugs" kind of guy, but do you also consider the legality of alcohol and tobacco to be equal to organized crime? Both substances are certainly more dangerous than marijuana.
I am OK with it. I assume the state will keep increasing the amount of the sin tax on pot just like they do on cigarettes,casinos, state lotteries.
Plus I am very curious as to how much money it could save in law enforcement, prisons, district attorneys, defense attorneys, legal aid, etc. Hell, on second thought,the ABA may oppose legalization! It could be the opposite of a jobs bill to attorneys.
Revenant...How can a rational person discriminate among money making enterprises.
By using his reason.
Well I'd rather they just legalize it than continue the fraud of medical marijuana. Sure there are specific circumstances where a case can be made for it's medicinal use but mostly its bogus.
Plus I am very curious as to how much money it could save in law enforcement, prisons, district attorneys, defense attorneys, legal aid, etc."
AJ ... when you say "save" you suggest that somehow this money would be given back to the taxpayers, and not used to give raises to the very same cops now not required to arrest anyone for dope smuggling.
Is there anything in the history of Democrat politics to suggest that such an outcome is even remotely possible?
The problem with "saving" any money in government is that it goes directly back into the salarie/pensions/benefits of government employees.
You've really got to look at this thing from a realistic perspective, dude.
James...In honor of your name, let me agree with you and add that Tobacco and Alcohol are mong the all time best revenue collection products ever done, except for the old salt business in pre refrigeration days and the petroleum business today. The key is to find small discreet substances of high value to everybody that can be limited to drive up prices and also tracked to market better to levy the King's tax cuts for his needed cash. Many private fortunes arise in cooperation with paid off politicians whenever the government semi-restricts these business transactions. A study of the 1800s opium wars fought by European Empires against the Chinese Empires to corner that market is an eye opener. The first New Deal Democrat to introduce Socialism was an heir of the Delano fortune acquired from semi-legal opium sales in Shanghai. So todays drug sales reforms are not that big a deal to socialists. They like to destroy people anyway. I suggest that if drugs are legalised, than murdering of rich drug sellers should at least be legal during an annual hunting season. That would only be fair.
Wow, man, that's heavy. Do you, uh, think I'll have to pay a tax if I, uh, grow my own?
Who knew the author of this post's middle name is "Sherlock"?
Yeah, man, but what's Sherlock Holmes middle name?
The Apple repair shop moved. The old place is taken over by a medical marijuana dispensary. I did wonder at first why there were 10 X as many cars parked in the lot.
Revenent...To be rational on a non-violent standard is so appealing. Can we license and tax adultery? The legal profession should not get all the loot from that hot market. I can see the Super Bowl ads for it now. But how do we rationally quantify deep wounds/ damages done by non-violentl adultery? We may again have to sell licenses to the victims for a hunting season for adulterers each year too. This is getting back to a government of retaliation. Wherefore art thou now progressive human reasoning?
Why anyone would expect any significant tax revenue from the sale of a substance that just yesterday was illegally sold on streetcorners and other areas of the black market economy is beyond me.
Try to impose a substantial tax on it, and the sellers will say "eff you" the same way that they said "eff you" to the prior law -- they will ignore the collection, ignore the tax forms and other paperwork, and simply go back to selling it on the street. Then, instead of cops busting people for selling pot, we can bust them for selling pot without payment of taxes on it.
"So more money for, often, underfunded police departments, and freeing up their time to go after real criminals (and freeing up the space in prisons for the real criminals) is now a bad goal?"
Dude,
There are no underfunded police departments. Cops in Boston are making $200,000 a year. Police officers, on average, make twice what ordinary workers make.
Show me an underfunded police department that is not on the border of Mexico, where Democrats are deliberately defunding police departments so that illegal aliens can be funneled into their McMansions to clean their toilets and raise the kids they were somehow unable to abort.
Before we legalize marijuana I hope we figure out a rapid, accurate, and non-invasive test for driving under the influence of THC. Something equivalent to the breathalyzer, but for THC.
Then not only can the government raise money by taxing marijuana, it can raise money through fines for driving under the influence of THC and not merely ethanol.
We're all living in Pottersville now.
George Bailey never lived.
Its not a coincidence that criminal enterprises use the word "tax" to mean income from various activities including but not limited to drug trafficking, extortion, protection racketeering all the way up to murder.
Like a criminal enterprise the appetite of an out of control government knows no boundaries.
"George Bailey never lived."
No, he lived.
He just jumped is all.
I have been told that there are folks in very rural areas who have managed to get by in difficult times through risky and illicit agriculture.
I was told that they are not inclined to see matters go legit.
I wouldn't know. Would legalization drive the process rapidly corporate and drive out smaller growers?
Or would it be more of an artisan small brewery type of thing?
Lighting things on fire and sucking in the smoke will provoke the health nazis, no?
Is pot politically correct now?
Beats me.
Did you know that the Los Angeles city council has an automatic "yes" vote so that they don't have to necessarily be there when votes are taken.
They are out of control.
Big Mike: "Then not only can the government raise money by taxing marijuana, it can raise money through fines for driving under the influence of THC and not merely ethanol."
...They'll tax me for driving under the influence of ethanol??
*gulp*
There goes my motivation to buy that new FlexFuel...
wv: fishinic - heyyy, something's not quite right about this basket o' fried chicken...
Keep in mind that this sort of thing is legal in Canada; since they can't deliver the care, they try to fog the patients' minds.
One problem for the Demos is that they might lose their base over this. The brie and chardonnay crowd fled Taxachusetts for New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine when they realized taxing the rich included them, reminding us, "There's no such thing as a poor, white Liberal". (Plenty of poor, white radicals, however) The same happened in California as the Earth in the Balance types moved to Arizona and Nevada.
Nowhere to run this time.
WV "sheaddou" What the husband says to his girl friend when his wife is OK with a threesome.
The proposed law would.. ban smoking marijuana in public or around minors.
California needs a minor rebellion ;)
Here is the plus side: If the big tobacco companies take it over and make a lot of money, the deglamourization of pot will have begun. The hip community will start to question the wisdom of trying to pull a foregn substance as deeply into your lungs as possible. Michelle Obama will preach that obesity is linked to THC consumption and speak out against it. Stoners will be looked upon as clueless consumers of Philip Morris products. Marijuana will become as subtly declasse as a two martini lunch. Trend setters will abstain.
It's essentially already legal here in CA. The full legalization will pass, but you won't notice any difference. We're all stoned off our ass now anyway, especially our state legislature; they're wasted.
Damn Lori, you were only one word away from convincing me to use your dissertation service.
Lori is one persistent broad.
maybe i shouldn't use the word broad.. maybe just abroad
risking danielle will come and knock me broadly around.
Here is the plus side: If the big tobacco companies take it over and make a lot of money, the deglamourization of pot will have begun
I just wish I could grow some fucking plants without having to worry about johnny law. Maybe I'll end up smoking them, maybe i won't. Trust me with that decision! There are millions of dudes just like me, and we could care less who think it's glamorous or not.
Get your late night Garaj Mahal right here!
Hey garage I don't know if you know this but that desire puts you in agreement with the father of the modern conservative movement.. a conservative among conservatives the late William F Buckley.
Wf Buckley was a wise man Lem.
I hate potheads. I'm in favor of benzodiazepines and good old-fashioned alcoholism.
Snob.
I've never tried pot out of fear that it would be smelled by my family.
the smell of pot is the most insidious thing in the world.
ps.. i wish althouse didn't need word verification.
Is that you playing garage?
Lem
I'm finishing up a local pale ale from New Glarus brewery. It's called Moon Man. What are you having?
I'm having some sherry.. Harveys Bristol Cream.
i'm getting old ;)
I liked the fusion piece.. I see got more.
maybe i shouldn't keep attributing the videos to you..
there was a movie Adoration (2007) that's partly about people getting some information and running with it.. as it were.
I got to get Palladian to recommend some classical stuff to listen to. I was completely blown away hearing this piece on the way back from Chicago today. It faded out before I could catch the composer. But, Palladian hates me these days, so I won't hold my breath waiting.
Just ask him - he don't bite..
I do wish you people made your profiles available thou.
You have my email...
Yea I do.. but I don't think Palladian does.. how is he going to recommend the classical music?
"I've never tried pot out of fear that it would be smelled by my family."
And the one next door as well. My neighbor tokes up daily and I can smell it in my house before he even lights it. Modern pot must be the strongest smelling thing commonly carried around.
One time some young criminals as part of the community service portion of their criminal sentence, were clearing brush behind our neighborhood when they discovered some pot plants growing. It was hilarious to watch as these baby gangsters started stuffing the plants into their socks and underwear trying to avoid the supervising sheriffs seeing them. Of course the discovery spread among the group like wildfire and soon they were all casually wandering to the same spot, which gave it away quickly. The cops confiscated all of it and later came to my neighbor's house to investigate why they happened to be growing behind his house. He played dumb and they had no way of proving otherwise. It filled the entire trunk of the cops car, but they didn't find it all...
Revenant, why are do you make the assumption that drug use and prostitution are victimless crimes?
There's no assumption. They are called victimless crimes because neither crime requires a victim. Murder, theft, embezzlement, and kidnapping do. You can't commit murder without a victim. You can, on the other hand, sell sex or smoke a joint without need for a victim.
The victims you'll find around prostitution or drug use are victims of OTHER crimes. For example, some women are coerced into prostitution, or enslaved and forced into it. But there's a term for forcing a woman to have sex, and that's "rape". Similarly, a prostitute who denies having syphilis and infects her clients is committing fraud and reckless endangerment. A drug user who runs over someone when high is committing manslaughter and DUI. Etc, etc.
Why anyone would expect any significant tax revenue from the sale of a substance that just yesterday was illegally sold on streetcorners and other areas of the black market economy is beyond me.
The most obvious reason is that we have past experience with legalizing widely-sold black-market intoxicants and seeing significant tax revenue from their legal sale. Namely, wine, beer, and liquor after Prohibition.
California want to get it on..
Let's Get It On - Maceo Parker
Can we license and tax adultery?
It would probably be about as successful as a license and tax on asking stupid questions on the Internet, but I suppose you could try. :)
California needs the cash..
Dirty Cash - Stevie V
Great link Lem . The late great Fred Wesley was on trombone in that same concert
Fred Wesley was one of thee funkiest mofo's that ever lived. He should be, he was a driving force, dare I say the bandleader in James Brown's early work.
They tick off a list of social ills — including tardiness and absenteeism in the workplace — that such an act would contribute to.
Stormy Monday - Albert King & Stevie Ray Vaughan
My inclination is to let people do whatever the Hell they want to in their own house if they're not hurting anyone else, and that we'd be better off legalizing and taxing pot. But there's this: when I was married and living in CA, my wife worked as a nurse in a neo-natal unit, and walking past that incubator room where all the preemies were withdrawing was just f*ing heartbreaking. I haven't found any argument for legalization more convincing than that yet....
Flexo: lots of people would prefer to go to a legal and reputable source I think, so I think the taxes would be there. Besides, prices would come down when WalMart got the Chinese to grow it for them!
Garage: I'm usually circumspect about clicking the embedded links, but glad I did. Perfect 1:30 am jam. Thanks!
.. primarily on the Internet, with national groups planning to urge marijuana fans to contribute $4.20 at a time, a nod to 420, a popular shorthand for the drug.
I Got Five On It - Michael Marshall
“Voters’ No. 1 concern right now is the budget and the economy,” Mr. Newman said, “which makes them look particularly favorable at something that will bring in more than $1 billion a year.”
Good Thing - Dinah Carroll / Courtney Pine
Still, the idea of legal marijuana does not seem too far-fetched to people like Shelley Kutilek, a San Francisco resident, loyal church employee and registered California voter, who said she would vote “yes” in November.
It's De-lovely - Anything Goes
“There’s going to be a large sector of the electorate that would never do this themselves that’s going to sort out what the harm would be versus what the supposed good would be,” said Frank Schubert, a longtime California political strategist..
Heaven Psychedelic Furs
Perhaps only in California could a group of marijuana smokers call themselves fiscal realists.
Why Can't I Be You - The Cure
a medical cure, the induced love and the tpers protesting.. this song is so right on "so many levels" ;)
I remember back in the 90s in Briatin the anti-smoking campaing was unfolded with leading talking point that smokers put heavy load on NHS. At some point during TV debates, may be 'Question Time' (I don't remember what program), one of the participants brought in figures, that shown the 'cigarette tax' money the government collects is way higher than all NHS budget; several times the NHS budget, so the smokers were actually subsidising NHS and who knows what else. Brits are severely cutting NHS spending at the moment. I wonder if this is largely due to success of their anti-smoking campaign.
On Wednesday, the California secretary of state certified a November vote on a ballot measure that would legalize, tax and regulate marijuana..
How Bizzare - OMC
Legal-Marijuana Advocates Focus on a New Green.
Crazy - Live Roskilde 2008
think twice..
Don't smoke in bed - Nina Simone
Legal-Marijuana Advocates Focus on a New Green
Mienteme bien - Buika
Lie a good lie.. there are lies that feel good.
I just tried to buy an iTunes song and got a warning that the terms of service had changed...
Everybody is short.. not just California.
Legal-Marijuana Advocates Focus on a New Green
You've Made Me So Very Happy - Blood Sweat & Tears
wv - brive.. its ransom.. I mean random.
I should have quit after Buika but boundaries are meant to be crossed.. or to try and keep things fresh in the fridge.. i get those xs up ;)
I see some difficulties here.
How would you tax it? As in:
In what form would it be sold? Rolled and packaged like cigarettes? Bagged like pipe tobacco?
What would it cost? Would the tax be so substantial that people would still grow their own, and thus create an underground economy like there is now? Would people still go to jail even though it's legal but because they didn't have a tax stamp?
AllenS you are underestimating the enterprise.. and I don't mean the ship..
Do you think Microsoft made any sense at the time it was conceived?
Hell No.. they were rejected by IBM.
Somebody its going to figure out something and make millions.. once the thing is legalized.
The tobacco companies should have a leg up but like IBM they are probably too big and slow to react in time to take advantage.
BTW - this is TPers point..
Time and time again one of the patterns we see when companies grow big is their powerlessness to keep up and react to the benefit of their customers..
Take that and multiply it to the 10th power and a gargantuan federal goverment may come into view.
Actually there is one company that seems to defy all the conventional wisdom i spoke about earlier..
Walmart..
Sono-a-bith is not only surviving, they are better off than they were a year ago today.. despite the lousy economy.
God bless'm.
Take the military for example.. do you think anybody in that organization while on their way up is encouraged to think independently and improvise?.. hell no.. if anything that's the quickest way out.
Look at them.. Obama said find a way to get rid of DADT.. months later they came up with a way to still keep DADT.
And the Tpers are the problem?
I'm out of here.. In some parts of Bergen Co bears open at 7 on the am ;)
dont worry I'm not driving.
"But, Palladian hates me these days, so I won't hold my breath waiting."
Garage! I think you and your kind are the enemy of all that is good and decent and just, but I don't hate you! I'm not a "hater" even though I play one on the internet.
How can I assist you?
It's not just the prospect of additional tax revenues - which, at least initially, may not be as bountiful as optimistic projections claim. The larger financial benefit will be a de facto reversal of the established cash flow model - instead of a complete outflow based upon prohibition, the government will realize an income - on paper, at any rate, the potential savings in state expenditures will be substantial. It's akmost a given that the politicians in the postion to take advantage of this likely will - but not to cut overall spending, but to use the political crack aka 'money' to fund some other unicorn they have in mind.
An additional factor, aside from the simple money trick, is that legalization and regulation, based upon the existing models we have for alcohol and tobacco, stand a more realistic chance, again, based on track record, of achieving one of the supposed underlying goals of prohibition - to keep the substance out of the hands of minors. The simple fact of the matter is that the 7-11 or WlaMart clerk is a much more responsible social agent than someone already operating in an outlaw fashion, who will receive no harsher punishment for not discriminating the age of his clients.
There is also the likelihood, if surveys of results in the Netherlands are accurate, of a reduction of use rates, for the simple fact that it's no longer 'cool' or 'rebellious' to do - in the words of one Dutch politician 'we made it dull'.
tw - snesm, I often snesm after I sniff the sticky budz. . .
Do you, uh, think I'll have to pay a tax if I, uh, grow my own?
Probably. Don't they still have revenooers going after the moonshiners?
Palladian
was just looking for some good classical references. I wanted to start a small collection to listen to. That's it.
I just wish I could grow some fucking plants...
I prefer my plants restrain from sexual activities.
Until Prohibition, marijuana cultivation was legal. My late father-in-law grew up farming in Kentucky and would describe fields of hemp 8 feet or more tall. The hemp they grew wasn't much good for smoking but great for rope, cloth, and other stuff.
Legalizing hemp has strong support in many agricultural areas. But, the cotton industry fights it due to the competition and others are afraid people would more easily grow "real" pot and get high. So, instead, those inclined take oxycontin and meth.
BTW - when I bought my house 5 years ago, it had a marijuana cultivation system in the crawl space, grow lights, water hookups, etc. I had it taken out to avoid any chance of criminal intent.
"By using his reason."
Can you share some of that reasoning, cause I'd love to hear me some.
And then there are the savings from reductions in law enforcement, parole and probation folks, and jail time.
Trey
This is the problem with classical liberal thinking. Things didn't just begin today. They got here from somewhere. Of course to some, the suggestion that things change opens me up to charges of Marxism but hear me out. The real theory of everything metaphor is the Red Queen from Alice in Wonderland (and the awesome book by Matt Ridley). There is no ideologically perfect state and you need to be constantly vigilant and make difficult choices every single day.
That said, weed is a pretty easy choice. Legalize it.
Garage:
I have rather eclectic tastes in music, and prefer "early" and baroque music to proper "classical" music, but I can give you a few recommendations of recordings to get. These are in no particular order except for the first one, Gould's "Goldberg" Variations, which is a mandatory purchase.
Johann Sebastian Bach: The "Goldberg" Variations, BWV 988. Glenn Gould, piano, 1981 recording.
Johann Sebastian Bach: Brandenburg Concertos Nos. 1 - 6, BWV 1046-1051, performed by Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin
Beethoven: Symphonies No. 5 (Op. 67) & 7 (Op. 92). Carlos Kleiber, conducting the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Ludwig van Beethoven: The "Late" Quartets. Performed by The Yale String Quartet.
George Frideric Handel: Suites for Harpischord, HWV 426-433. Kenneth Gilbert, harpsichord.
Franz Schubert: Piano Trios, D898 (Op. post. 99) & D929 (Op. 100). Performed by Immerseel, Beths & Bylsma.
Johannes Brahms: 4 Ballades/2 Rhapsodies/10 Intermezzi. Glenn Gould, piano.
Orlando Gibbons: Keyboard Music. Performed by Christopher Hogwood.
"A Consort of Musicke by William Byrd and Orlando Gibbons" (also including Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck's Fantasia in D). Glenn Gould, Piano.
"Apollo's Banquet: 17th Century Music from the publications of John Playford". Performed by David Douglass, Paul O'Dette & Andrew Lawrence-King.
Music of the Crusades. Performed by the Early Music Consort of London.
How would you tax it? As in:
Well, for starters it would be affected by ordinary sales tax, same as any other product that is sold. Companies selling it would pay the corporate income tax; their employees, the personal income tax. So even if there wasn't a special tax on pot itself, you're still talking about a lot of revenue. If there was a $20/pound tax on oranges, though, I'd plant an orange tree.
Would the tax be so substantial that people would still grow their own, and thus create an underground economy like there is now?
Well, it certainly could be. If you raise taxes high enough you create a new black market. But growing your own plants (ANY kind of plants) takes time and effort. A lot of the food we buy at the supermarket is stuff we COULD just grow in our backyards, but most of us don't because it isn't convenient.
"Do you, uh, think I'll have to pay a tax if I, uh, grow my own?"
Probably. Don't they still have revenooers going after the moonshiners?
The government goes after moonshiners because the moonshiners *sell* the moonshine and don't pay taxes for doing so. Producing your own beer, wine, and liquor for personal consumption is legal (in most parts of the country, anyway).
The 1981 Gould recording of Bach is awesome because you can hear Gould singing along.
@Revenant. Copperhead Road.
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