"For about 30 to 35 minutes I laid out the reasons why he shouldn't pick Dick Cheney"...
... his age and health, [his] close association with Bush's father...
"[Bush] prodded and poked at me, and disagreed," Rove said....
"I can't be concerned with the politics of it," Rove said Bush later told him, noting he needed a "good partner," and Cheney was that man.
"It really was his first presidential decision...."
२७ मार्च, २०१०
Karl Rove says "[Bush] was set on Cheney for vice president, and I thought it was a bad idea."
So I guess he wasn't Bush's Brain.
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Good men are hard to find.
I thought Cheney chose Cheney
I always considered Cheney as someone who wouldn't have given me the time of day.
AllenS, who would?
I like Cheney. If I ever met him, it's because he would be talking to my brother in law at some reception...and I would be briefly introduced. But I wouldn't be able to engage beyond that. Just not on the radar.
I like Lynne and Liz too.
*ducking*
In days gone by every king needed a good man that would faithfully do a nasty job of Tasting all the food and wine. Kings were continual targets from several factions that would continually promise wealth and promotion to ambitious insider men the day the King died from poisoning. In modern DC since Nixon's last days the Presidents have needed the same good man, if one could be found, to do the job of taking the abuse of poisonous accusation plots aimed at the President. Cheney became the poison sniffing dog, so to speak, and he was always first in line. To get W, they had to turn or eliminate Cheney's effectiveness. Could Bush relay on Colin Powell? that was a laugh. W had watched Bush Senior targeted during the Iran contra aimed at Reagan and him as successor. Dan Rather was willing to manufacture false shock evidence that he did not have to poison the Reagan/Bush/Bush Presidencies. Yes, Cheney was W's necessary faithful man for that job. For another example of a Cheney type in action read the short book of Nehemiah which has no reason to be in the Bible except as God's reward to such a rare good man as was Nehemiah's service, much like Cheney's service.
Like the Carter Administration, the last two years of Nixons, the arguments about free trade and supply side "deficits don't matter" economics that raged withing the Reaganites - some distastrous decisions were made during the Bush Administration.
Obama walked into almost as big a mess as Carter left Reagan.
It will take years to unravel who was behind the worst decisions of the Bushies. Exactly how much influence the neocon cabal had. How many warning signs of fiscal collapse existed but were ignored by the Bushies. How much they honestly cared about American industry being gutted by the Chinese or mass illegal immigration.
Rove saying he opposed Cheney is just peripheral gossip to the real questions of what happened in the Bush years.
What were decisions and policies, good or bad, that were Dick Cheney's doing? Where did he have no real input but knew exactly how decisions or policies were arrived at? What ideas or policies proposed by others made it to become decisions? What ones were Bush overruling everyone for better or worse?
Rove could probably answer many of those questions, but appears to be reamining a loyal little retainer until Cheney and Bush and Paulson and Rice and other key players finish and release their books and do the interview and honorarium circuits to answer follow-up questions to their writings.
And the contrary is also true:
A hard man is good to find.
(Cue Julius)
Well C4 we all know who the real culprits were, "The JUICE!"
WV: "dissadm"...to be distinguished from "dat" SADM....I guess. Need to keep our nuclear weapons apart.
Dude, I thought Cheney thought God picked Cheney.
Rove and Cheney, two biggest liars and evil doers. They give me the heebie jeebies.
Vicki from Pasadena
Good for Bush! Whereas Obama picked Biden because he makes "the black Jesus" look good ... and we know the only thing worse than an Obama Presidency would be a Biden one.
The country would have been better off had Cheney been President for eight years, and Bush his VP. Sometimes you need heart and principals (GWB), sometimes you need iron.
Rove was Bush 43's political director. He was looking at the vice presidential slot in therms of whether it was good politics.
Bush was looking at the same position in terms of who would help him the most in leading the country.
I think Bush made an appropriate choice for his presidency. Certainly the country would have been in good hands in the event of Bush's untimely demise -- unlike our current situation, where the vice president choice was entirely political and obviously not based on leadership competence. Obama didn't want a vice president who appeared to be better than he was, so that set the bar pretty low.
---
wv: glocons. Glowing conservatives.
I don't think Cheney gives a damn whether people like him; that was part of Dubya's problem, he wanted people to like him because he was "compassionate".
Cedarford said...
...
Obama walked into almost as big a mess as Carter left Reagan.
Bigger, but he did more to create it than Dubya, or have you forgotten the attempts the Republicans made to bring Fannie/Freddie under control?
Of course you have. And who was the point man in making sure those efforts never got out of committee? The recipient of the third highest amount of bank contributions after Christopher Dodd and the Hildabeast - The Zero.
kentuckyliz said...
I like Cheney. If I ever met him, it's because he would be talking to my brother in law at some reception...and I would be briefly introduced. But I wouldn't be able to engage beyond that. Just not on the radar.
I like Lynne and Liz too.
*ducking*
You have good taste, mum.
Cheney was a good VP, he was smart and effective. You might not like the guy but he isn't the idiot we currently have in the VP slot. Biden is a fool and not very bright.
"I can't be concerned with the politics of it,"
This really sums up the Bush years. Now we're in the all politics all the time on every decision presidency.
gosh, where is that Althouse skepticism ? or was that sarcasm. For the sake of Bush's legacy, it makes sense to paint Bush as a man that stands on his 2 feet, whether or not its true.
Pretty much the entire Bush admin was a huge mistake. Noone here knew me, but I said as much in late 1999, when Bush looked to get the nomination. It was, to my mind, going to be a disaster for conservatives, the Republicans would be wrecked, and we'd get full-throated liberalism in reaction.
Cheney, folks might recall, was never a movement conservative, he was an establishment-type from a conservative state--definitely NOT the same thing, even if they tend to look a like; just as motor oil can kinda look like coffee if you don't look too closely. And motor oil is actually useful.
You want to know who to blame for this health-care fiasco? Blame Bush.
He wrecked the Republican party, smashed it up, discredited it, better than any Democrat ever could. Heck, he did worse on the spending--he launched the TARP, and muscled a lot of Republicans to help pass it. Then they went down in flames, and you know the rest.
And Rove was the "architect"? And Cheney was the power behind the throne? Then blame them.
Cheney, folks might recall, was never a movement conservative, he was an establishment-type from a conservative state--definitely NOT the same thing, even if they tend to look a like; just as motor oil can kinda look like coffee if you don't look too closely. And motor oil is actually useful.
Cheney was a Fordite and was involved in every disastrous decision of the Ford administration (along with Rumsfield). Later he was part of the Bush I disaster. Bush II was a Ford/Bush I rerun.
The Republicans can't wait to nominate another Ford/Dole type in Romney. Don't like O-care? Hey lets nominate Romney and get R-care.
Picking Cheney was his best decision.
Cheney is a national treasure. He is someone you could go to for good advice in tough situations. The Bush Administration had a foreign policy. The Obama Administration has an incoherent mess. The next President is going to inherit the mother of all messes from Obama. Hey maybe Obama can give speeches whining about the mess he inherited from his own first term. But hopefully it will be a Republican and someone who likes and understands America next time.
"It really was his first presidential decision...."
hmmmm 0 for 1 and his average never ever improved.
William T Sherman said...
The country would have been better off had Cheney been President for eight years, and Bush his VP. Sometimes you need heart and principals (GWB), sometimes you need iron."
I think Mr. Bush only needed a ball of twine to keep him happy...and he got a sack of shit. Things sour when you go in the pile looking for the pony.
"Don't like O-care? Hey lets nominate Romney and get R-care."
Same thing, of course...which I assume is your point.
Funny how a conservative's policy initiative becomes "socialism" when enacted by a moderate Democrat.
Me? I think we need real socialized medicine.
Thinking back 8 1/2 years, to 9/11/01 - who here thinks that Joe Biden (or even President Obama) would have had the knowledge and balls to do what was needed, ordering all flights within the U.S. immediately grounded, enforced with shoot down orders?
What else Cheney brought to the Bush Presidency was significant experience in foreign relations and the use of our military. Things that are sorely missing from the present Administration.
What he was not, was a religious conservative. Rather, he is one of the original (non-Jewish) neo-cons. And, yes, that includes apparently the original meeting where Laffer drew his famous curve on a napkin (apparently Cheney's boss, Rumsfeld, had been scheduled to attend, but canceled, and Cheney attended instead). But this also means that he really only participated at high levels towards the end of the Ford Administration (which, in comparison with what was to come in the next Administration, looks pretty good in retrospect).
I have always had a soft spot for him, since he comes from neighboring Wyoming, and his wife and daughters graduated from my undergraduate alma mater in Colorado. I just deep down like and feel comfortable with politicians like him who say what they mean, and put individuals before the collective.
I've always liked Dick Cheney. But I liked him even better after reading Matt Labash's essay in the Weekly Standard, The Passion of Dick Cheney (which became the anchor piece for Labash's new and excellent book, Fly Fishing With Darth Vader.
I was always astonished by Lefties who criticized Bush as "arrogant" on the one hand, but immediately then insisted that Bush was really Cheney's puppet. In fact, a confident leader picks subordinates who can actually think independently and stand up for their principles in dealing with their principal.
Contrast Dubya's choice of Cheney with Obama's choice of Biden or, even worse, Kerry's choice of Edwards. Obama's perfectly happy to have a laughingstock as Veep, and his massive ego couldn't have accommodated a strong, independent, and competent personality who might steal some of Obama's glory. As much as I oppose Obama and heartily wish his defeat in 2012 and the frustration of his policies in the meantime, I do, literally, pray for his continued good health while in office.
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