We still haven't heard from my wife's uncle Paul. Her mom and dad, who go down every year to do volunteer work in the hinterlands, weren't going to go at first, but are now flying out on the 21st.
The military could drop food and water from the air cant they?
Sure. We can do that kind of thing in our sleep. The problem is the situation on the ground. You risk any number of very negative unintended consequences and, quite possibly, end up causing more misery than if they didn't get anything at all.
Statistics are lives with the tears wiped away. The scope of this tragedy is impossible to visualize in terms of the number of individual horrors created.
Paul has updated his Facebook page. He was 150 miles from the city, and he’s ok. His cell phone does not work because the towers are down. However, he got his laptop to go through.
Airdropping supplies is incredibly inefficient. And it's insignificant. We cannot and never will be able to fly in enough supplies for 9 million people. Or even 3 million. There aren't enough planes nor enough runways.
You need ports for that. And the port is completely wrecked. They'll have to figure out a way around that, with another Haitian port or one in the Dominican Republic. Or getting the port fixed quickly enough to matter.
This is one of those things that's a numbers game, and helping a few people for the cameras is a waste of effort.
And he may mean that he can't work and watch three kids. Not a lot of day care in Haiti. I think the man is being completely honest.
O'Reilly said last night that a lot of the money will end up in the pockets of the kleptocracy that governs Haiti. But there are some intact organizations. Doctors without Borders operates three hospitals in Port-au-Prince (they are back up and running, and their American liaison has been on all the channels, and argues that they never get shaken down and their services actually do go to the poor).
Obama's 100 million will probably largely get stolen by the kleptocracy, but there are other more sensible conduits. Obama is all heart and no accountability.
But Doctors without Borders does appear to be able to think things through. What other decent agencies of change exist in Haiti?
At least, unlike Myanmar, they are letting aid workers in.
About the only delivery technique more inefficient than airdropping is using helicopters, but that appears the only way available right now because the roads are blocked.* The aircraft carrier Carl Vincent added 19 helicopters to its normal complement to help deliver supplies. The Marine amphibious landing ships on the way also carry a sizeable complement of powerful helicopters. However, even the most powerful ones can only carry about 15 tons at a time (and many of them are very old and prone to breaking down). That'll have to do until they can get some of the roads open, which may not happen for another week or more.
When you airdrop supplies, you risk killing people on the ground. You also risk riots as desperate people fight for the food and water.
*There are reports this morning that desperate people are building roadblocks out of human corpses to stop anyone from getting by. This sounds terribly counterproductive, if accurate. Remember the horrible reporting out of Katrina and take this one with a grain of salt until actual pictures arrive.
O'Reilly said last night that a lot of the money will end up in the pockets of the kleptocracy that governs Haiti. But there are some intact organizations
I believe I said something like this on the first day and got reamed by our mulitple personality troll for being heartless.
It is true about the kleptocracy. Any money we give to the Haitian Government and directly to organizations controlled by Haitian Government will be stolen. Just look at what has happened over the last decades where BILLIONS of dollars of aid have evaporated. Nothing has improved.
Doctor's Without Borders Various Catholic Charities Salvation Army... and I'm sure there are many more to donate to where your money will be used for the purpose intended and not to build beautiful palaces or line the pockets of the connected.
Haiti has been a hell hole for a century. This is a terrible disaster for these poor people who have been oppressed for generations. It behoves us as a country not to just throw another 100 million at the problem today and much more later without DEMANDING ACCOUNTABILITY and DEMANDING RESULTS.
Here is a question to ponder. The US is generous and the people of the US are generous when it comes to leaping to the aid of those in neeed.
Should we have a similar scale disaster in San Francisco or New York.....who is going to give us the billions of dollars of aid that we will need? When this happens as it will....who is going to pull our buns out of the fire? Or will we be expected to stand on our own?
It is true about the kleptocracy. Any money we give to the Haitian Government and directly to organizations controlled by Haitian Government will be stolen.
At this point, I don't think we need to worry about that. For all intents and purposes, the Haitian government appears to be out of commission. They aren't organized enough to steal the money even if we gave it to them, and it's not clear to me that they even have government representatives accessible for us to give it to them.
One of the interesting, and sad, stories of the last 50 years is the collapse of government in much of the world.
I was reading about the war between Ethiopia and Somalia back in the 1970s. As sad and pointless as the war was, what struck me was that those two countries were still able to mobilize something resembling modern armies and keep them at war out in the desert.
There was a time when Haiti and countries like it had governments, deeply dysfunctional as they were. Now there's not much of anything.
There are many anarchies in the world. We pack movie theaters with post apocalyptic fantasies, but the reality is everywhere. In a lot of places they even have cars with guns, a la Mad Max.
The Apocalypse happened. It's in Haiti right now. It's been in Congo and Somalia. It's not fiction.
You risk any number of very negative unintended consequences and, quite possibly, end up causing more misery than if they didn't get anything at all.
it's a tragedy already..
It could always go even worse. If there aren't troops on the ground to secure the drop zones and monitor distribution you'll be looking at murder on a mass scale.
I know this is going to sound callous but when I read that the Hatians are angry because we're not getting there fast enough I get a bit pissed. I mean I'm sorry your country is a 3rd world shithole because your 'leadership' has kept it that way for generations and I'm sorry that we don't have a carrier task force full of medicine, bottled water and food sitting off every third world shithole in anticipation of a major natural disaster.
What do you actually do for a living, Garage? You're a painter, right? What would you say is the biggest brush that you paint with?
Well for garage one scientist is just as good as another. I mean seismologists, climatologist its all the same thing. Here's an example from one of my favorite movies:
Dr. Venkman: Are you, Alice, menstrauting right now?
I don't know what to do with my three children. I can't look after them.
What a bizarre statement. Regardless of the circumstances, I could not imagine saying this about my own children.
I think it's a pretty normal sentiment, and he's saying that without his wife, he doesn't know how he'll care for his children while he works. That's how I took it anyway.
The guy could also be thinking that in the current chaos, how can he keep his children safe while he tries to clean up or rebuild or even look for his belongings. Most people won't be going to work for awhile, will they?
DBQ: Should we have a similar scale disaster in San Francisco or New York.....who is going to give us the billions of dollars of aid that we will need? When this happens as it will....who is going to pull our buns out of the fire? Or will we be expected to stand on our own?
For New York on 9/11 or New Orleans after Katrina, Americans stood on their own, and received some generous help and sympathy from other countries. An earthquake like this in San Francisco or New York would be much more devastating than 9/11 or Katrina, of course, but I think Americans would still stand on their own. Of course, if Obama weren't flushing billions upon billions down the crapper now, we would be much more able to recover from a truly major disaster.
You're probably right Freeman. It just struck me as odd when I read the statement. My first impulse would have been to say that I'll find a way to take care of my children no matter what. Then again I've never had to cope with the tragedy that he is currently enduring.
My condo assoc. came to my embarrassment's rescue -- just got a letter saying we're putting on a building-wide charity drive. Blankets, toiletries, food, all is welcome.
I can do that!
I wonder how many private entities not tied to charities like this are springing all over the United States? And how many are springing all over Europe...
There is so much more giving nowadays, and opportunities to give - that's wonderful. I just bought some wine at a locally owned wine store, and they asked if I'd like to donate to Red Cross. Pretty cool.
I'd already given at work, but what strikes me in this, one of the most overwhelming natural disasters in recent years, is the absolute lack of leadership. At least, that's how it looks to me from the outside, with my heart breaking, everyone's breaking.
You hear stories on the radio about how, for ex., there are too many field hospitals (NPR) - I don't know, shouldn't there be one of those generals leading the charge, like there .... EVENTUALLY was in NOLA? Eventually, I say.
There just has to be some definitive leadership, and I don't know if there is any.
1. If women understood what they mean to the men that love them,...
2. Rush Limbaugh HAS TO BE the most lied about man in America. He just has to be. (J. Cricket take note: he never said such a thing and you're a bit slow to believe that he did. Don't you ever wonder how he can be such a bastard and still get away with being the most popular radio host in America, with a black producer, and black fans like me? Think, man.)
3. People are already going at each other with machetes over food. None of this is as simple as it seems, just like Katrina was over-simplified to win points. (The fact no one has gone after Kathleen Balco for that travesty - when she, not Bush, deserved most of the blame - is an injustice.)
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Can someone please get Kaney West on the phone and ask him if Obama hates black people?
Heartbreaking.
But the husband did save his wife. Far better for her to die in his loving arms than alone, surrounded by the rubble of a collapsed school.
I don't think it's suitable for entertainment, though.
Which is the biz they're in.
We still haven't heard from my wife's uncle Paul. Her mom and dad, who go down every year to do volunteer work in the hinterlands, weren't going to go at first, but are now flying out on the 21st.
The military could drop food and water from the air cant they?
Gates and Adm Mullen are on CSpan right now.
Mullen says they are no going to drop anything "at this time".
Oh boy.
The military could drop food and water from the air cant they?
Sure. We can do that kind of thing in our sleep. The problem is the situation on the ground. You risk any number of very negative unintended consequences and, quite possibly, end up causing more misery than if they didn't get anything at all.
You risk any number of very negative unintended consequences and, quite possibly, end up causing more misery than if they didn't get anything at all.
it's a tragedy already..
Contribute money?! But your hero, Rush Limbaugh, says not to.
How bold of you to contradict him. Not that you would actually criticize the man, of course. That would require courage on your part!
Statistics are lives with the tears wiped away. The scope of this tragedy is impossible to visualize in terms of the number of individual horrors created.
JUST got this from the wife...
Paul has updated his Facebook page. He was 150 miles from the city, and he’s ok. His cell phone does not work because the towers are down. However, he got his laptop to go through.
I am so sorry for his loss.
World Vision.
Catholic Relief Services.
Both very good charities with proven track records.
Heartbreaking. It makes everything else seem so trivial.
I don't think it's suitable for entertainment, though.
Yes . . . it's terribly sad, but I feel bad that his family's private grief is being plastered across the news like that.
I don't know what to do with my three children. I can't look after them.
What a bizarre statement. Regardless of the circumstances, I could not imagine saying this about my own children.
What a bizarre statement. Regardless of the circumstances, I could not imagine saying this about my own children.
Some of these people are not polished in the subtle ways we hear people ask for help.
there is also the possibility that things get lost in translation.
Airdropping supplies is incredibly inefficient. And it's insignificant. We cannot and never will be able to fly in enough supplies for 9 million people. Or even 3 million. There aren't enough planes nor enough runways.
You need ports for that. And the port is completely wrecked. They'll have to figure out a way around that, with another Haitian port or one in the Dominican Republic. Or getting the port fixed quickly enough to matter.
This is one of those things that's a numbers game, and helping a few people for the cameras is a waste of effort.
And he may mean that he can't work and watch three kids. Not a lot of day care in Haiti. I think the man is being completely honest.
O'Reilly said last night that a lot of the money will end up in the pockets of the kleptocracy that governs Haiti. But there are some intact organizations. Doctors without Borders operates three hospitals in Port-au-Prince (they are back up and running, and their American liaison has been on all the channels, and argues that they never get shaken down and their services actually do go to the poor).
Obama's 100 million will probably largely get stolen by the kleptocracy, but there are other more sensible conduits. Obama is all heart and no accountability.
But Doctors without Borders does appear to be able to think things through. What other decent agencies of change exist in Haiti?
At least, unlike Myanmar, they are letting aid workers in.
About the only delivery technique more inefficient than airdropping is using helicopters, but that appears the only way available right now because the roads are blocked.* The aircraft carrier Carl Vincent added 19 helicopters to its normal complement to help deliver supplies. The Marine amphibious landing ships on the way also carry a sizeable complement of powerful helicopters. However, even the most powerful ones can only carry about 15 tons at a time (and many of them are very old and prone to breaking down). That'll have to do until they can get some of the roads open, which may not happen for another week or more.
When you airdrop supplies, you risk killing people on the ground. You also risk riots as desperate people fight for the food and water.
*There are reports this morning that desperate people are building roadblocks out of human corpses to stop anyone from getting by. This sounds terribly counterproductive, if accurate. Remember the horrible reporting out of Katrina and take this one with a grain of salt until actual pictures arrive.
O'Reilly said last night that a lot of the money will end up in the pockets of the kleptocracy that governs Haiti. But there are some intact organizations
I believe I said something like this on the first day and got reamed by our mulitple personality troll for being heartless.
It is true about the kleptocracy. Any money we give to the Haitian Government and directly to organizations controlled by Haitian Government will be stolen. Just look at what has happened over the last decades where BILLIONS of dollars of aid have evaporated. Nothing has improved.
Doctor's Without Borders
Various Catholic Charities
Salvation Army...
and I'm sure there are many more to donate to where your money will be used for the purpose intended and not to build beautiful palaces or line the pockets of the connected.
Haiti has been a hell hole for a century. This is a terrible disaster for these poor people who have been oppressed for generations. It behoves us as a country not to just throw another 100 million at the problem today and much more later without DEMANDING ACCOUNTABILITY and DEMANDING RESULTS.
Here is a question to ponder. The US is generous and the people of the US are generous when it comes to leaping to the aid of those in neeed.
Should we have a similar scale disaster in San Francisco or New York.....who is going to give us the billions of dollars of aid that we will need? When this happens as it will....who is going to pull our buns out of the fire? Or will we be expected to stand on our own?
It is true about the kleptocracy. Any money we give to the Haitian Government and directly to organizations controlled by Haitian Government will be stolen.
At this point, I don't think we need to worry about that. For all intents and purposes, the Haitian government appears to be out of commission. They aren't organized enough to steal the money even if we gave it to them, and it's not clear to me that they even have government representatives accessible for us to give it to them.
One of the interesting, and sad, stories of the last 50 years is the collapse of government in much of the world.
I was reading about the war between Ethiopia and Somalia back in the 1970s. As sad and pointless as the war was, what struck me was that those two countries were still able to mobilize something resembling modern armies and keep them at war out in the desert.
There was a time when Haiti and countries like it had governments, deeply dysfunctional as they were. Now there's not much of anything.
There are many anarchies in the world. We pack movie theaters with post apocalyptic fantasies, but the reality is everywhere. In a lot of places they even have cars with guns, a la Mad Max.
The Apocalypse happened. It's in Haiti right now. It's been in Congo and Somalia. It's not fiction.
Scientists warned Haiti officials of quake in '08
Good thing we didn't listen to those whacky grant funds driven hoaxy scientists eh.
What do you actually do for a living, Garage? You're a painter, right? What would you say is the biggest brush that you paint with?
Obama will probably try to funnel the 100 million he's promised to Haiti through ACORN.
You risk any number of very negative unintended consequences and, quite possibly, end up causing more misery than if they didn't get anything at all.
it's a tragedy already..
It could always go even worse. If there aren't troops on the ground to secure the drop zones and monitor distribution you'll be looking at murder on a mass scale.
I know this is going to sound callous but when I read that the Hatians are angry because we're not getting there fast enough I get a bit pissed. I mean I'm sorry your country is a 3rd world shithole because your 'leadership' has kept it that way for generations and I'm sorry that we don't have a carrier task force full of medicine, bottled water and food sitting off every third world shithole in anticipation of a major natural disaster.
Good thing we didn't listen to those whacky grant funds driven hoaxy scientists eh.
Whose 'we' white man?
I mean seriously what kind of point are you trying to make garage or are you just flinging your usual liberal feces around as usual?
What do you actually do for a living, Garage? You're a painter, right? What would you say is the biggest brush that you paint with?
Well for garage one scientist is just as good as another. I mean seismologists, climatologist its all the same thing. Here's an example from one of my favorite movies:
Dr. Venkman: Are you, Alice, menstrauting right now?
Librarian: What has that got to do with anything?
Dr. Venkman: Back off man, I'm a scientist
Next Monday, I'll be giving whatever I can to the various reputable organisations. It's killing me that I can't, because I'm cash-strapped this week.
I don't know what to do with my three children. I can't look after them.
What a bizarre statement. Regardless of the circumstances, I could not imagine saying this about my own children.
I think it's a pretty normal sentiment, and he's saying that without his wife, he doesn't know how he'll care for his children while he works. That's how I took it anyway.
The guy could also be thinking that in the current chaos, how can he keep his children safe while he tries to clean up or rebuild or even look for his belongings. Most people won't be going to work for awhile, will they?
DBQ: Should we have a similar scale disaster in San Francisco or New York.....who is going to give us the billions of dollars of aid that we will need? When this happens as it will....who is going to pull our buns out of the fire? Or will we be expected to stand on our own?
For New York on 9/11 or New Orleans after Katrina, Americans stood on their own, and received some generous help and sympathy from other countries. An earthquake like this in San Francisco or New York would be much more devastating than 9/11 or Katrina, of course, but I think Americans would still stand on their own. Of course, if Obama weren't flushing billions upon billions down the crapper now, we would be much more able to recover from a truly major disaster.
You're probably right Freeman. It just struck me as odd when I read the statement. My first impulse would have been to say that I'll find a way to take care of my children no matter what. Then again I've never had to cope with the tragedy that he is currently enduring.
My condo assoc. came to my embarrassment's rescue -- just got a letter saying we're putting on a building-wide charity drive. Blankets, toiletries, food, all is welcome.
I can do that!
I wonder how many private entities not tied to charities like this are springing all over the United States? And how many are springing all over Europe...
There is so much more giving nowadays, and opportunities to give - that's wonderful. I just bought some wine at a locally owned wine store, and they asked if I'd like to donate to Red Cross. Pretty cool.
I'd already given at work, but what strikes me in this, one of the most overwhelming natural disasters in recent years, is the absolute lack of leadership. At least, that's how it looks to me from the outside, with my heart breaking, everyone's breaking.
You hear stories on the radio about how, for ex., there are too many field hospitals (NPR) - I don't know, shouldn't there be one of those generals leading the charge, like there .... EVENTUALLY was in NOLA? Eventually, I say.
There just has to be some definitive leadership, and I don't know if there is any.
Several thoughts here:
1. If women understood what they mean to the men that love them,...
2. Rush Limbaugh HAS TO BE the most lied about man in America. He just has to be. (J. Cricket take note: he never said such a thing and you're a bit slow to believe that he did. Don't you ever wonder how he can be such a bastard and still get away with being the most popular radio host in America, with a black producer, and black fans like me? Think, man.)
3. People are already going at each other with machetes over food. None of this is as simple as it seems, just like Katrina was over-simplified to win points. (The fact no one has gone after Kathleen Balco for that travesty - when she, not Bush, deserved most of the blame - is an injustice.)
I think you mean Kathleen Blanco.
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