४ डिसेंबर, २००९
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५० टिप्पण्या:
I listened to that schtick live, and it's clear that Beck is irritated with Palin for saying that he's a "hoot" -- she had just been asked about a possible Palin-Beck ticket in 2012.
The whole Beck dialogue (with his radio sidekicks) is sarcastic and ironic. I think an Althouse commenter said it best when he said, "Why do liberals become humourless literalists when they deal with anything Republican?".
Cheers,
Victoria
Other liberals may have said plenty of sexist things about Palin and not been called out for it, but to be fair, Ta Nehisi is not one of them.
The only way you can get me to like Sarah Palin is to take cheap, unfair shots at her. It's weird-- she used to be appealing when she was obscure, like "hey did you know Alaska has a pretty female Governor? And she's a Republican! crazy!"
I have to say that the upper-midwesternism of saying something is a hoot when it's funny bugs me. Maybe I'll get used to it after I'm here another 28 years.
OBviously schtick, which he gives away at the end by saying that if he did become subservient to her by becoming her VP, it would upend stereotypes of conservatives. He's lampooning the people (some of whom comment here) who assume they know what conservatives think deep down inside, that they're all home-schoolin', wife-beatin', God 'n guns-lovin', gay-hatin', birther whack jobs. The very existence of Palin's support base belies that, but those who are trapped in that stereotypical mindset don't get it.
Beck is sort of a comedian, isn't he? He's more like a Jon Stewart for the right than a Keith Olbermann. I don't watch him hardly ever, but that's the sense I get from the clips that float around the Web. Feministing getting uptight about this schtick would be like getting mad at Stewart for one of his put-ons where he says things he obviously doesn't believe for comic effect in order to lampoon the right.
"Other liberals may have said plenty of sexist things about Palin and not been called out for it, but to be fair, Ta Nehisi is not one of them."
But has he called out the liberals as he's called out Beck.
Guess you need to dig up all those sexist remarks by liberals, then.
John Stodder said...
" people (some of whom comment here) who assume they know what conservatives think deep down inside, that they're all home-schoolin', wife-beatin', God 'n guns-lovin', gay-hatin', birther whack jobs."
I never said anything about beating up your wife.
"The very existence of Palin's support base belies that, but those who are trapped in that stereotypical mindset don't get it."
and just how big is Palin's support base? She trails Mitt Romney for Christsake.
"Beck is sort of a comedian, isn't he? He's more like a Jon Stewart for the right ..."
He passes for what is news on FauxNoise and no, dressed up in his little hitler uniform, he isn't the least bit funny unless you call "hey pull my thumb" a laugh riot.
As for Ta Nahesi calling out sexism, well there is this:
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/newsweeks_sarah_palin_cover.php
As for calling out liberal pundits equal to Beck's standing on the right, well an example of said remark would first need to be given.
What about a Romney-Beck ticket with the Morman Tabernacle Choir singing in the background at their inauguration? Sarah doesn't fit into that scenario either. Beck is the person with the dangerous mouth problem, but he always says "I was just kidding". Hah, hah! Comedy is fine, but words and demeanor together count. Sarah has her Woman's status that lets her get a pass when she skewers the Demonrats without comng off as a Mean Angry German White Man like Beck. The Democrat run media have resorted to parroting the "she is a doofus beauty queen" charge to peel away her advantage. She would be a fool to run with Beck and lose that advantage.
What humorless dumbassery! Only someone who had never heard Beck wouldn't know this was a joke. Sheesh.
Beck's show is joke after joke after joke then deadly serious monologue then joke after joke after joke.
This is just like all the Limbaugh jokes people act all infuriated over.
Knock knock.
THAT'S NOT FUNNY!!!!!
The commenters to that article are about the most smug, irritating scum I have read in a long time. They are so busy patting themselves on the back for being enlightened that they don't even seem to see just how parochial they really are and the article itself is even more so.
The commenters to that article are about the most smug, irritating scum I have read in a long time.
You only feel that way because they are better than you.
@MM
Re: Palin...if she's smart (we'll see) she'll not run for the big job. She'll wait and be invited to a cabinet post or two before doing so.
Re: TNC
I started my blogosphere life over at a Nehisi's Atlantic blog as one of the few conservatives there. Aside from the blog, he and I share gaming as a hobby, so we traded emails privately about that subject and I found him to be a decent guy. Besides...he's one of the very few honest liberals that actually likes the NFL. Very few and far between, that last group.
He lost me, though, because I believe he's too much of a forest-for-the-trees guy on race. That isn't to take away from some very interesting and honest things he has to say, but I think he gets knee-jerk over some topics. For instance, he got livid over discussion about black immigrant earnings and crime-rates vs American black earnings and crime-rates.
@vbspurs
I agree that 90% of Beck's schtick is sarcastic, almost to a fault, but there's the other near-tearful 10% that's over the top earnest. I will give him props for one thing, though. He doesn't let a lot of listeners kiss his ass the way Rush and Hannity do. As a former jock myself, it's like nails on chalkboard.
It's a follow-through to considering only a Beck-Palin ticket.
It's clever phrasing as well
Why am I hearing your voice? I'm not in the kitchen.
That combines both seen-and-not-heard and place-is-in-the-kitchen.
I wonder if he ad-libbed that combination, or it's something I just hadn't heard.
could it be that some folks do not apparently understand the difference between news and op-ed.
I doubt Beck is ever sarcastic, chiefly because it's not clever or funny.
Though I don't listen to Beck's shows so can't really say.
Sarcasm, "Something is wrong and you have to figure out what it is," is a woman's trope.
It just saves the speaker the trouble of organizing a coherent thought, which is not an advantage to either side.
This takes me back to when Palin's veep candidacy was first announced. Some women were making posts about how Palin probably shouldn't be working so much (and is she even breastfeeding?!) on a moms' group message board. These particular moms fancied themselves feminists. When it was pointed out that their comments, and the comments of many in the news media at the time, seemed a bit anti-feminist, they claimed that no such comments had ever been made... on the very same thread! The mind boggles.
I'm pretty sure liberals have made lots of sexists remarks about Palin. I'll leave the burden of proof on garage.
"I doubt Beck is ever sarcastic, chiefly because it's not clever or funny.
Though I don't listen to Beck's shows so can't really say."
That's kind of a odd statement. I have never seen his show (I assume it's a commentator type show and not news, I noticed someone upstream was confused about that). How would you determine if he is ever sarcastic without watching the show?
Coates banned me after I left a comment criticizing him: link (further down he admits I was banned). It's certainly not the best comment I've left, but the fact that he'd ban me over that - instead of taking a try at showing how he thinks I was wrong - shows just how much of a lightweight he is.
As for Palin, if any fans want to help her out, here's how you have to do it.
For a tangible example, see the comment I left here. You can do that too.
Other boring Left-wing tactic:
Refuse to admit sarcastic/comedic/ironic comment was funny or ironic. Continue to lie and assert it was meant literally.
Keep saying 'I didn't think it was funny'. Play dumb. Try to keep from laughing at absurd conservatives who try to convince you otherwise.
Rinse and repeat.
I'm pretty sure liberals have made lots of sexists remarks about Palin. I'll leave the burden of proof on garage..
probably, but then I could just say it was a joke, or was humor, or sarcasm. Haha!
Because making a joke about a woman yapping and not being in the kitchen is funny. get it??!
I don't usually read Coate's blog
but his compatriot Megan McArdle linked over to him defending Huckabee's pardon of Clemmons and I perused that post. (I've read Megan's work since she was working on the WTC cleanup after 9/11).
His defense is based, as far as I can tell, on some rather weird ideas about the necessity of executives using the pardon power to compensate for the fact that the judicial system puts a horrific number of absolutely innocent black men in prison, according to Coates. The occasional murder of four cops is just a unfortunate side effect of the justifiable release of convicted felons.
Color me not surprised that his take on Beck and Palin is similarly strained.
Not that the choices are ever this stark, but I think about Hillary Clinton and how she was relentlessly mocked as a bitch and nutcracker etc.
How about thinking about how she was accused of race-baiting, Mr. Coates?
and just how big is Palin's support base? She trails Mitt Romney for Christsake.
The fallacy here is that you think support = support for president.
I suspect there are a lot of conservative women both in the workforce and stay-at-homes who support Palin as a role model or an inspiration, but who are unconvinced that she has presidential qualifications.
I support a lot of people who I don't think should be president. Bob Dylan for example. Manny Ramirez. David Sedaris. The Coen Brothers. I'm not really a supporter of Sarah Palin, but she's an interesting American character and part of what makes her interesting is the way her foes react to her. If the liberals would just ignore her, I'd eventually get bored of her. But they keep thrusting and missing and it's entertaining how she deals with it.
Coates was right about Huckabee. The last thing we need is to delegitimize pardons and commutations, which are sometimes the only correctives to the frequent injustices of the criminal justice systems. If a governor or the president facilitates the release of someone who, years later, commits a horrific crime, it's really unwise to stigmatize the entire area of pardons and commutations. Mistakes will be made, and bad luck befall us, but governors should exercise the power their constitution grants them. It's not there as a perk, it's meant to be used.
Clemmons was given a 95-year sentence for robbery when he was 17, for gosh sakes. I would want my governor of whatever party to subject a sentence like that to a high level of scrutiny, with the burden of proof on the prosecutors to demonstrate why that's appropriate. All Huckabee did was shorten the sentence and make him eligible for parole, which was granted by the parole board.
I don't like Huckabee one bit, but piling on over this issue is wrong.
/digression
I agree that 90% of Beck's schtick is sarcastic, almost to a fault, but there's the other near-tearful 10% that's over the top earnest. I will give him props for one thing, though. He doesn't let a lot of listeners kiss his ass the way Rush and Hannity do. As a former jock myself, it's like nails on chalkboard.
Ooh, the jock and possibly the Alpha Male perspective. That's an interesting angle, Scott, hadn't heard it before.
I've mentioned how much I dislike Glenn Beck before.
I really dislike him, though there is a part of me that recognises that he is sincere (he's got a different big-ego personality than O'Reilly, who was flattered by Obama coming on to his show...so much, that I tuned him out when he became soft on Obama afterwards). He is a sincere Conservative, but one I think is overly interested in making headlines. Sensationalist, attention-seeking opinions do not interest me, and I actually find that a huge strike against his beliefs.
Having said that, he's the kind of radio talk show host that is genuinely funny when he's got sidekicks. If you only know Beck from TV, you'd be surprised how different he sounds on the radio.
Cheers,
Victoria
How can it have been funny? Glenn Beck is not funny, he's just annoying. Three words: Tries. Too. Hard.
Where in the hell is AlphaLiberal? This is the kind of topic where he usually shows up and provides us with his unique sense of humor when he cmments.
Bummer.
Freeman Hunt said: "What humorless dumbassery! Only someone who had never heard Beck wouldn't know this was a joke. Sheesh."
Only someone who had never heard Beck or anyone else with any sense of humor ever wouldn't know that was a joke.
Also, to a lot of others: there are a lot of jokes that I don't think are funny. That doesn't mean that I reject the idea that the person telling them was joking. Are liberals who reject this as a joke really that dense, or is this some sort of bizare performance art?
I donno... what is worse to a liberal or feminist?
*Joking* about feminism or making a serious attack on a woman who doesn't conform?
It was not sexist to say that Sarah Palin is an ignoramus and a lunatic because that happens to just be the truth. She barely knew jack squat about anything and thought she'd be elected because she winked, had that one joke about hockey moms, and didn't abort her baby. She got frustrated when the focus of the campaign became what an idiot and a loon she is instead of her being able to get away with all the smears she wanted to spread about Barack Obama (in case anyone forgets, she said Obama is a best pal of terrorists, for example). And the most sexism Sarah Palin encountered was inside the John McCain campaign itself.
It would be nice if the Republican Party faced the reality that Palin is a nutter and those who put her so close to becoming the most powerful person on earth were playing recklessly to an obscene degree with our country and the world.
She will continue to become more and more of a joke if she continues to have a voice in national politics. Now she is officially encouraging ridiculous claims that Barack Obama is not an American citizen. Isn't it time to tell this disgusting creature to just go away and shut the fuck up? Her book is stupid, she quit as governor, and she was the laughingstock of America in national politics. GO AWAY!
I notice that InstaPundit has not even commented on how Sarah Palin became a birther today. Isn't that fascinating? InstaPundit goes on and on and on and on and on and on about how the media doesn't cover this and that because of their biases. InstaPundit's blog usually has two cents on every notable story of the day. Yet the day is over and InstaPundit has not mentioned Sarah Palin one single time today.
I guess he doesn't want to give Sarah Palin's latest idiocy any oxygen.
I haven't read every message in this thread, but from a quick skim it appears the only example of the extreme sexism against poor Sarah Palin that was mentioned were a few messages posted on some obscure "moms' group message board".
The truth is that Sarah Palin and her fans used the sexism charge to try and silence her critics. Her critics who have been vindicated about most of the attacks they made on her, btw.
I have always treated Sarah Palin exactly the same as I'd treat a male politician. People love to throw ists and isms at people who are saying things they don't like. And a lot of these right-wingers think they are being knights in shining armor by being protective of Sarah Palin because she is an atttractive female. To me she is someone who has always loved getting in the mud and playing hardball with others, and someone who sought great power in this world. She ought to stop playing the victim. She dishes but can't take it.
Andrew Sullivan today: "Palin has always been a brutal campaigner and in her first campaign for mayor, she demanded that her opponent produce his own marriage license to prove that he was in fact married to his wife. Of course, her first opponent did produce his license. And her current target, Barack Obama, has also produced his birth certificate a long time ago, and yet she is still demanding that he produce it."
She was never in the same class as Barack Obama. He's a better politician, a better leader, and a better all-around human being. As soon as Sarah Palin figures out that President Obama is actually an American, not to mention that he is not a big pal of terrorists, she should say so. Until then, she can stop whining and playing the victim.
You know, this could be one of the greatest political manoeuverings in political history on the part of Barack Obama.
He could've stalled producing his birth certificate for JUST the right moment, for greatest effect. Can you imagine if on Monday we all wake up to find it there for all to see?
He wouldn't even have to tip his hand that it was a ploy all along -- he could just finesse the situation by having Robert Gibbs say, "The President thought the time had come due to prominent people questioning his citizenship", a thinly-veiled swipe at Palin's comments today.
THAT WOULD HUMILIATE HER AND ALL THE BIRTHERS INSTANTLY.
Come on, Mr. President. Humiliate the opposition!
Cheers,
Victoria
Isn't it obvious he was joking? "I'd have to live up to the evil Conservative stereotype" He wasn't serious, I can't believe they finally call something sexist against Palin. What about all the sexist slurs hurled from liberals that where clearly not a joke? This wasn't about fighting sexism, it was about smearing Glenn Beck. I can't believe this is when they called out "sexism" not all the jokes about her body, her children, calling her the "C word" but Glenn Beck obviously joking. Unbelievable.
LoafingOaf, I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. You do not support Sarah Palin--do I have that right?
Heh. I kid, I kid.
I don't think most GOP people support her for President. At least, I don't know any in offline life who do.
But has he called out the liberals as he's called out Beck.
Why do I find it funny that Althouse is asking that?
I don't know about Althouse, but I find it utterly hysterical that Andrew Sullivan thinks in untoward that someone demand evidence of something not in question by anyone sane.
:-P
Scott M said...
@MM
Re: Palin...if she's smart (we'll see) she'll not run for the big job. She'll wait and be invited to a cabinet post or two before doing so.
ahhh Scott ...they did away with the Village Idiot spot a long long time ago. However, with her acumen, Court Jester is within her grasp.
ya'betcha
"As for calling out liberal pundits equal to Beck's standing on the right, well an example of said remark would first need to be given."
Trust me there isn't a liberal counterpart to Beck.
"Trust me there isn't a liberal counterpart to Beck."
Or Limbaugh.
Gerofalo might want to be, except she's just not smart enough.
That guy with the "worst person of the day" schtick tries, but he just comes off as really truely hyperventalating and I can't remember his name anyway, and then Matthews (?) with his tingely legs and view of West Point as an enemy camp can't even compare.
The closest, perhaps, is Al Gore!
And look where that's gone lately.
That's what Beck does too, isn't it? He tries to raise the alarm? Absolutely Al Gore. And certainly just as prominent if not more-so than Limbaugh or Beck put together.
I think you misunderstood my point.
Of course there aren't liberal counterparts to Beck. He has an audience.
As far as this issue, if anybody feels he is serious they are willingly being obtuse.
I might respect Ta-Nehisi Coates more if he has less of a jackass ghetto name and was more of a serious thinker. Does he seriously think women's problem with Palin is about respect? Does he really think women (apart from Ann and some Dems) have a problem with Palin? I'm a Conservative black woman who just loves Sarah Palin. I respect her, too. She's got drive, energy, intellect, ideas. She's got mad executive skills. She's no airy-fairy, hopey-changey bullshit artist like the current WH occupant.
Okay, how the heck does Ta-Nehisi Coates pronounce his first name? Is it said 'Tennessee'? If it is, does he think spelling it 'Ta-Nehisi' will make him seem more authentic than he thinks he is?
So if I'm reading this right, the reason it was not a sexist joke is because it was playing on the subtext of how conservatives are routinely and unjustly accused of bigotry? My first instruct is to call this horseshit, because to me it was clearly uninspired "get back in the kitchen joke."
But if I'm wrong then we truly live in different worlds. Is this kind of aggressive sense of being unjustly accused really so close to the surface of the conservative mind that it's the first association you make here?
grapp,
That's your strongest argument against TNC? His name? That's extremely weak and it's a shame that nobody else has called you out on it.
Palin is an empty shell. Somehow, people have been convinced there is something of weight to her. There just isn't. The modern conservative moment has an unfortunate streak of anti-intellectualism that is appalling. Palin is the result of that. Even some people who support said she needed to crack open some books.
LonewackoDotCom,
He banned you for blog-whoring, not for a critical statement.
Good bloggers do that, blog the random jack who thinks they have something to say... but in reality is just repeating someone else's boilerplate... Sort of like, I dunno, YOU?
grapp,
Did you name yourself? If not, you need to chill the eff out with making fun of another person's name. Either that or work your ass off and take Coates job at the Atlantic; if they're happy to run his byline in the same pages that Emerson wrote in, you shouldn't have a problem with it.
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