Althouse: The Gates story may enlarge...

२५ जुलै, २००९

The Gates story may enlarge...

... in a direction other than the one Gates favors.

१४६ टिप्पण्या:

AllenS म्हणाले...: Skip the house, Skip the charity, Skip the arrest, Skip this or that. Skip it.; २५/७/०९, १०:३६ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Even if Gates were running a fake charity, which sounds like a real stretch but let's just assume it's true, he would know that when uniformed cops show up without a warrant in response to a break-in call they're not going to be investigating the charity. That's something that would be done by detectives, with warrants and subpoenas.

Peter; २५/७/०९, १०:४० AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Peter,

In this case, a break-in call is the warrant; २५/७/०९, १०:४७ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Its called probable cause BTW.; २५/७/०९, १०:५१ AM
Meade म्हणाले...: Is it a known fact that Gates did not consent to police entry?; २५/७/०९, ११:०० AM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: Skip may have felt safe in skipping all those laws for the regulation of common folks' Tax free shelters. The Martha Vinyard elite protects their own. (See, Tim Giethner's tax report due dates. Nunc pro tunc is OK for these elites). I hate to think about the Half Page Headlines that the NYT would run daily were this a Sarah Palin Ethics matter.; २५/७/०९, ११:१३ AM
Fred4Pres म्हणाले...: With probable cause of a crime no warrant is required for the police to investigate. Isn't that correct?; २५/७/०९, ११:२१ AM
Fred4Pres म्हणाले...: I would be karmic justice indeed if Skip's charity gets investigated over this.; २५/७/०९, ११:२१ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: It's obvious he's running a scam charity ... that's a typical lefty tactic.

It's a way to be rewarded by your friends and to reward your friends. It's how they get around bribery charges (instead of giving the money to each other directly, they donate it to each other's charities ... and take salaries to sit on each others boards of director).

It's pretty transparent.

Where Mr. Gates is in serious legal trouble is in his discriminatory hiring practices at The Root - the electronic magazine he runs that refuses to hire white people.

www.theroot.com

Only black writers are hired; and whites, Hispanics, American Indians and other ethnic groups are systematically discriminated against, in violation of US employment laws.

That's easily documentable; and highly susceptible to a lawsuit.

I'm surprised someone white hasn't applied; been rejected and then filed an official complaint with the Labor Department. Sounds like some easy money to be made.

Mr. Gates is a garden variety Harvard-approved racist; and his management of The Root proves it.; २५/७/०९, ११:२१ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Is it a known fact that Gates did not consent to police entry?

Wouldn't Gates first need to provide ID proving he is the resident and thus in a position to deny entry?

The police had probable cause to be there given the 911 call, and until Gates proved otherwise, the police can investigate and enter the premises. Correct?; २५/७/०९, ११:२६ AM
Laura(southernxyl) म्हणाले...: Fred4Pres said...

With probable cause of a crime no warrant is required for the police to investigate. Isn't that correct?

Fred, IANAL.

I think the police can enter with probable cause that a crime is being committed right then and they can't wait for a warrant - somebody is actively being murdered, or bloody socks are being flushed down the toilet to destroy evidence, that kind of thing.

In the case of a fraudulently run charity, the prosecutors would want to dot every i and cross every t to minimize later grounds for appeal, and to avoid distraction from the issue at hand. So they would definitely have a properly researched, issued, and delivered warrant.; २५/७/०९, ११:३२ AM
Laura(southernxyl) म्हणाले...: that would be "probable cause TO BELIEVE that a crime..."; २५/७/०९, ११:३३ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Oh, yes, let's enlarge it, shall we? Let's advocate that various powers of the state be used to investigate every aspect of the life of this individual in retaliation for his failure to respond in the appropriate deferential manner to the uniformed representatives of the state. Surely we'll come up with something to hang him with. Hang him high, as they say.; २५/७/०९, ११:४८ AM
Jim म्हणाले...: Given our liberal friends insistence on every 'i' being dotted and 't' crossed in the incident with Officer Crowley, I'm sure they will join me in calling for a thorough and complete investigation of this matter to ensure that:

1) Gates has filed all necessary paperwork for his "charity."
2) That it is in full and complete compliance with all state and federal regulations
3) That Gates' hiring practices at theroot.com conform to the highest standards of ensuring diversity.
4) That Gates receive absolutely no special treatment whatsover. If he is found in violation of the law in any way, that he be subject to all appropriate sanctions and/or penalties without regard to his relationship with the president or any other politically-connected persons.

Also:

5) His children should be investigated for any hint of impropriety which would obviously reflect poorly on his parenting skills.
6) All Massachussetts state officials should comb through his private and confidential information for any hint of wrongdoing.

I look forward to the expeditious completion of these investigations.

After all, we wouldn't to have a different standard for those who question or criticize the president than for those who are personal friends, do we?

Oh...never mind....; २५/७/०९, ११:५५ AM
Jim म्हणाले...: randy -

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Oh, he's a friend of the president. Not a critic. Never mind.; २५/७/०९, ११:५८ AM
Synova म्हणाले...: I agree, Randy.

Can you say Ricci?

Or Joe the Plumber?

I think it's out of line to use government and various powers of the state to investigate the private life of people who are political opponents.

And I'm pretty sure that there is no way at all that a cop could use a 911 call about a break in to investigate anything other than a break in, even *if* the cop saw evidence of something fishy... short of hearing a child screaming for help or gunshots.

OTOH, it sounds like this was already being investigated by someone or other and is public record.

The connection to the 911 call just *isn't* not even, I would think, to explain why Gates was such a jerk (hey, maybe it *was* jet lag, but in that case you apologize and say, hey, sorry, jet lag).

OTOH, looking at what is public record about Gates isn't quite the same thing as public employees taking on themselves to look into private records in order to smear Joe the Plumber.; २५/७/०९, १२:०१ PM
Jason (the commenter) म्हणाले...: I think people are missing the point about Gates not filling out the paperwork for his charity, and his use of his charity for reasons contrary to its stated purpose.

Gates is just the sort of person who says, "Don't you know who I am!" Score another point for the police report. Oh, and since Obama calls this sort of person his "friend," take another point away from him.; २५/७/०९, १२:१४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Synova: IIRC, most of the stuff uncovered about Joe the Plumber came from public, not private, records.

Jim: Need to add "All known associates," whether or not they are remotely involved or just happened to be mentioned in passing somewhere or MIGHT be mentioned in a sealed document somewhere, like, say, a divorce decree. (The link provided in the post gives 11 names to start with, but I'm sure more can be found with just a tad more digging.)

And let's not forget filing frivolous lawsuits against all and sundry. That's always useful, if only to bankrupt the transgressor of decorum. And don't give a second thought to the innocents caught up in the web. They probably deserve it, or did something illegal sometime somewhere, or would if they could, or might, or whatever.; २५/७/०९, १२:१७ PM
Jim म्हणाले...: Randy -

Thanks for the catch. We should also interview all past students, colleagues, neighbors, grocery store clerks, and passersby to see if someone might have an ax to grind. Because, petty people from Gates' past with an ax to grind are going to be far more credible than anyone willing to vouch for him. That's Media Rule #1.; २५/७/०९, १२:२४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Right, Jim! That's the ticket!; २५/७/०९, १२:२५ PM
Laura(southernxyl) म्हणाले...: Synova: IIRC, most of the stuff uncovered about Joe the Plumber came from public, not private, records.

There was enough from private records that people were fired for it.

I'm reminded of Ward Churchill, who, if he hadn't open his mouth about 9/11 victims being "little Eichmanns", could have gone on blissfully plagiarizing and falsifying in peace.; २५/७/०९, १२:२६ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: "Let's advocate that various powers of the state be used to investigate every aspect of the life of this individual in retaliation for his failure to respond in the appropriate deferential manner to the uniformed representatives of the state."

No, Randy, but we should investigate this racist for refusing to hire Asian people at his magazine. Or Hispanics.

That's illegal in this country. We've made it a crime to predicate employment on race.

Mr. Gates is a criminal. He should be investigated.; २५/७/०९, १२:२९ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: What was he doing in China? That's also part of the story that hasn't been reported on. Did he give a speech? If so, what was it about? who did he meet there? Was he talking with the communist leaders of China?; २५/७/०९, १२:३० PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Laura: I thought they were fired for abuse of the public trust by illegally accessing his records through the government's database via a computer located in a government office. His property tax liens, for example, were a matter of public record that any private individual could access on his/her own time.; २५/७/०९, १२:३५ PM
Invisible Man म्हणाले...: Ah, after hearing conspiracies about how liberals will go after Crowley, we learn which side spends there time defaming someone's character. Conservatives are always going for the ol' personal destruction. I'm sure Bill O'Reilly will have minions stationed outside Gates house this weekend.; २५/७/०९, १२:४२ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: That's right, Florida. We don't like him, what he says, or what we think he stands for. So let's seize this opportunity to find something to put him in jail where he belongs. He's obviously a criminal of the worst kind. Can't have people we don't approve of walking the streets. The security of the state is paramount and those who question the authority of the state must be shown who is boss.; २५/७/०९, १२:४४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Invisible Man, if I am wrong I apologize, but it seems to me you lived up to your name when the same kind of thing was done to those of whom you disapprove. (Palin and the plumber, being two good examples.); २५/७/०९, १२:४६ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Implying that someone is a communist worked in the 1950's, Kirby, but I'm not too sure it works as well in the twenty-first century.; २५/७/०९, १२:४९ PM
Jim म्हणाले...: Invisible -

You're right. We did see which side spends their time defaming someone's character. Very plainly.

You set the rules, now all of a sudden you don't want to play the game?

Awwww...fair is fair. Gates' just asked for this attention, didn't he? After all, that was the standard employed when you Leftists were so busy going after Joe the Plumber because the president approached him on his own property.

All of a sudden it's "defaming someone's character" when you go after someone the way you Leftists went after him? Glad you admit it now.

Too bad it's too late.; २५/७/०९, १२:५७ PM
Leland म्हणाले...: Seems like the politics of personal destruction works on both sides of the aisle.

I don't like this Gates guy. From what I read, the police had some reason to show that being a Harvard Professor doesn't mean you're above the law.

At the same time, the guy was just getting into his own home. The neighbor didn't call in a fake charity report.

I do not want to live in a country in which ones life is turned upside down everytime a politician or reporter mentions their name.; २५/७/०९, १२:५७ PM
Elliott A म्हणाले...: Actually, it is not his own home. He rents.; २५/७/०९, १:०० PM
Alex म्हणाले...: I'm all for investigating the fuck out of this guy. Let's destroy him. I've had enough of the race hucksters. All that shuckin' and jivin'. ENOUGH.; २५/७/०९, १:०० PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Another black on white hater crime:

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2009/07/24/brick_thrown_through_window_of.html

Police are investigating a brick with an offensive message thrown into the window of an East Austin home.

The brick, thrown through a 4-year-old boy’s bedroom window, read “Keep Eastside Black. Keep Eastside Strong.”

The homeowner, Barbara Frische, who is white, said she has lived in the home for 10 years.; २५/७/०९, १:०२ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: BTW, who thinks that blacks are feeling emboldened to commit hate crimes because Barack has given them a "GO"?; २५/७/०९, १:०३ PM
Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...: Oh mine.

The chips are falling in place.

"No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."; २५/७/०९, १:०५ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: OK, Alex! Once we've had enough of you, Alex, we're going to investigate the hell out of you, too. It won't be a routine proctological exam, either, but do be prepared to assume the position.; २५/७/०९, १:०५ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I do not want to live in a country in which ones life is turned upside down everytime a politician or reporter mentions their name.

It's too late, Leland. We already do.; २५/७/०९, १:०७ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Randy - you just can't stand the fact that Gates is about to become dog food courtesy of your hero Barack. Once Barack decides to throw someone under the bus, it aint pretty.; २५/७/०९, १:१२ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Alex, whatever gave you the idea that Barack Obama is my hero? You can't possibly find anything I have ever written to remotely support such a ridiculous assumption.; २५/७/०९, १:१५ PM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Fred -- No, probable cause is not an exception to the warrant requirement. After all, the cops have to prove probable cause to get a search warrant.

There are exceptions to the warrant requirement, and most of them require probable cause, but also other requirements.; २५/७/०९, १:१५ PM
Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...: Gates may have seen the incident as a window; an opportunity to wag the dog.

Oh, this is too good. Por 'bocon' (big mouth) esta bueno que le pase ;); २५/७/०९, १:२४ PM
Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...: Something all not too dissimilar happened to Sammy Sosa.

When he it was discovered that he too had juiced, ESPN started poking around and found what was later described as a "poorly managed" charity.

They will probably try and sweep this under the rug too the same way.; २५/७/०९, १:५१ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: Boy, I needed that laugh. Barack Obama is Randy's hero. Hoo boy.

Alex, reverting to the old "if you disagree with me an Obama worshipper" works a whole lot better if you aren't clueless about the commenter to whom you're referring.

Barack Obama, Randy's hero. LMAO.; २५/७/०९, १:५२ PM
AlgonquinS म्हणाले...: Oh, no! This is turning into ... ... ... Gatesgate!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.; २५/७/०९, १:५२ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: Algonquin: Don't beat up on yourself, there. #gatesgate is a hash tag on Twitter, so you're no alone.

; ); २५/७/०९, १:५९ PM
kentuckyliz म्हणाले...: The Austin PD won't consider the brickthrowing a hate crime. WTF!!! I would expect the Reverennnnd Jesse Jacksnnnn to stand with this family, deploring racial hate crimes, and demanding an investigation of the Austin PD.

Here's a tidbit for you that deserves top of blog coverage:

Lucia Whalen is the Circulation and Fundraising Manager for Harvard Magazine.
http://harvardmagazine.com/contact/staff

Her email is delinked but easy to figure out from the format of the other linked email addresses on the page.

Harvard Magazine's address is 7 Ware Street. Gates' address is 17 Ware Street.

Google Maps, satellite view, zoom in. http://bit.ly/DzGe6
They were next door neighbors! They could have waved out the window to each other across the yard!

So...they were colleagues at Harvard. Harvard Magazine covers all things Harvard and Gates is supposedly some big rock star at Harvard. He has lived at that address for a long time--not new neighbors. Harvard Magazine doesn't know who their rock star, colleague, next door neighbor is? Then why should Officer Crowley know who he is?

This happened during office hours. I wonder if the whole office looked out the window and agreed a break-in was happening and Lucia was the unlucky slob to make the phone call. Her life will never be the same.

Couple of questions:
Why didn't Lucia call campus security? She was a university employee on the campus looking at a university owned building.

Did she call them? Did they tell her to call the Cambridge police?

Second question...more of an alternate reality if Gates had a functioning brain. If Gates eventually used Harvard Maintenance to secure his door, why not start with that solution? In the same situation, I would have dragged my suitcase next door (Harvard Magazine!) and asked to use the phone to call Maintenance and possibly Security to report a potential attempted break-in due to the damaged door. If Gates had done this, no incident.

With that satellite view, also note the dense population of people and buildings in that area. Crowley was prudent to arrest Gates to keep the peace, because a crowd was gathering and could have easily turned into an uncontrollable or ugly situation.

Good going, Crowley. I stand with you. And so do the Latino and Black officers who were with you during this incident. They think you conducted yourself professionally, did the right thing, and they support you 100%. Even if you knew the charges wouldn't stick, you got the inciter away from the crowd and defused the situation.

*applause*; २५/७/०९, २:०८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Even if you knew the charges wouldn't stick, you got the inciter away from the crowd and defused the situation.

Good point, Liz! Can't have potential inciters on their own property attracting a potentially dangerous crowd, no matter how small that potential may be. Hope you took time last week to write Senator Claire McCaskill and say how much you admired her staff and the police for dispersing that unruly and tempestuous crowd of dangerous tea party protesters at one of her local offices. They went a bit soft on the ringleaders - there were no arrests, unfortunately. Still, I imagine it won't be long before they get their comeuppance. Or a "random" IRS forensic audit.; २५/७/०९, २:३५ PM
Invisible Man म्हणाले...: You're right. We did see which side spends their time defaming someone's character. Very plainly.

Jim,

It's always interesting to listen to people who have ZERO perspective or don't have the complex mind that allows unwanted information to seep in. For every Palin and Joe the Plumber, I can give you an Obama, Richard Clarke and Valerie Plame. Your side can't even help themselves from their "Birther" conspiracies that have been deconstructed by sources like that liberal rag "The American Spectator".

I'm not dumb enough to claim that liberals are virgins at this game. But for you to seemingly suggest that Republican witch-hunts like the Clinton years never happened and somehow "the liberals started it", defy and known logic.; २५/७/०९, २:४७ PM
kentuckyliz म्हणाले...: Randy, did you totally miss the point that he was reported to the police by his Harvard colleague and next door neighbor? Probably with the participation of the whole office looking out their windows? And they were the staff of Harvard Magazine, who should have known who Gates is, cuz he's such a rock star?

There are a bunch of RACISTS on the staff of Harvard Magazine!; २५/७/०९, २:५३ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Liz, I think Ms. Whalen did the right thing. She thought she was observing a crime in progress and called the police to report it. Senator McCaskill's staff reported being frightened for their personal safety when they called the police.

As to your last comment, your characterization of the employees of the Harvard Magazine strikes me as potentially defamatory. It is definitely inflammatory. Good thing there isn't a crowd here.; २५/७/०९, ३:११ PM
Joe म्हणाले...: Most "charities" and tax exempt corporations are bogus. Fix the tax system, fix the problem. But politicians have no desire to; bogus charities and tax exempt organizations are very important to being elected/reelected.; २५/७/०९, ३:३७ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: I wonder how the professor would do in a single day as a police officer. Pretty sure the police officer would have a pretty easy day as a professor by comparison. It would be fun to have the punishment be that -- in order to get to understand one another's situation -- they had to reverse positions for a single day. Make a nice TV show, and Obama could be the commentator and talk about how well each one did after the airing, during the kegger that followed at the White House.; २५/७/०९, ३:३८ PM
kentuckyliz म्हणाले...: I agree that there could be serious backlash against the Harvard Magazine employees perhaps resulting in riots and violence.

After all, Harvard had to delink Lucia Whalen's e-mail address already. Maybe she was receiving threatening e-mails from Gates or some other race huckster.

Maybe someone will throw a brick through the window of the Harvard Magazine offices threatening the white employees.
______________________________

I would love to hear Sonia Sotomayor's opinion on what happened. Her decisions favoring the police, and rich Latina experience as a big city prosecutor, and stated sympathy for the victims of crime lead me to believe she'd say Crowley acted prudently too.

Did you even look at the photo of the neighborhood? Behavior takes place within an environment.; २५/७/०९, ३:५१ PM
Once written, twice... म्हणाले...: Alex wrote
"BTW, who thinks that blacks are feeling emboldened to commit hate crimes because Barack has given them a "GO"?"

I guess Alex wants to be the head of the Althouse Hillbillies. Real classy group you have assembled here Ann.

P.S. most normal people believe that President Obama did an excellent job diffusing this episode on Friday. It is telling give who is trying to milk this ugly event. (I guess that would be Ann.); २५/७/०९, ४:१४ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: That story asks: Is it possible that Henry Louis Gates, Jr. was acting strange when law enforcement showed up at his door because he didn't want the story below to come out?

That makes no sense. You don't avooid attention by yelling and gesticulating. Whatever his reasons for "acting strangely" it's a tenuous connection to this issue. Had he given any thought to not wanting "the story below to come out" he'd have kept his cool and no one would be the wiser today.; २५/७/०९, ४:१९ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: It's obvious he's running a scam charity ... that's a typical lefty tactic.

Yes, thanks be to God that no conservatives or right-wingers ever collect fraudulent donations.

I see all is well in the land of glass houses.; २५/७/०९, ४:२० PM
Jim म्हणाले...: Invisible -

"For every Palin and Joe the Plumber, I can give you an Obama, Richard Clarke and Valerie Plame. "

Obama is the least investigated public figure in recent history, and I can prove it. What was his GPA at Occidental?

What? You can't answer that question? Why not? I thought that Obama was given full body-cavity search you claim that Palin and Joe were given.

FAIL.

As far as Plame was concerned, in case you missed it,

1) It was Richard Armitage who leaked the name.
2) Plame never qualified as a CIA operative under the statute anyway

FAIL

As far as Richard Clarke is concerned, pretty much every thing he has ever said has been discredited - mostly by him having to recant his own assertions after being confronted with evidence of his own mendacity.

FAIL again

You are full of FAIL today. What's wrong? Brain taking the weekend off?; २५/७/०९, ४:२२ PM
somefeller म्हणाले...: BTW, who thinks that blacks are feeling emboldened to commit hate crimes because Barack has given them a "GO"?

No one who is intelligent or generally worthy of respect would think that, whether they are otherwise liberal or conservative. But, I suspect Alex doesn't spend much time in the company of intelligent and respectable people.

As far as this whole deal goes, Obama should have followed a pithy little bit of political advice given to me years ago from a wily old Texas politician - you don't have to get into every fight.; २५/७/०९, ४:२२ PM
Jim म्हणाले...: LE Lee -

"most normal people believe that President Obama did an excellent job diffusing this episode on Friday"

Umm...maybe the people like yourself who were inclined to give Obama a pass for attacking the Cambridge PD in the first place...

Everyone else gets that his phone call Friday was political ass-covering insincerity. He didn't even have the courage to apologize for smearing the guy's reputation or call out Gates for his racism.

That's not diffusing the situation. It's pathetic.; २५/७/०९, ४:२४ PM
Jim म्हणाले...: I repeated Lee's error....It should "defusing" not "diffusing" which is actually a more accurate description of what Obama did...He just spread it around...Maybe that's what he meant in the first place though.; २५/७/०९, ४:२७ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: What was Valerie Plame's GPA? What about Nixon's? Haldeman's? Erlichman's?

I guess they were never over-investigated either.; २५/७/०९, ४:३० PM
Beth म्हणाले...: But, I suspect Alex doesn't spend much time in the company of intelligent and respectable people.

Nope, he hangs out with us.; २५/७/०९, ४:३१ PM
somefeller म्हणाले...: Nope, he hangs out with us.

Heh.; २५/७/०९, ४:४२ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: The government ought to confiscate all computers from hilly areas.; २५/७/०९, ४:४४ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Yeah call me a racist for pointing out the elephant in the room. BTW, why is the MSM not covering this Austin story as a hate crime? Can any of our esteemed resident libruls tell me why?; २५/७/०९, ४:४४ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: BTW, I notice the same character assassination leveled against me as was against Cedarford for mentioning the horrible reality that "it's better not to deal with African Americans, because the downside is too great".; २५/७/०९, ४:४५ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: I guess Alex wants to be the head of the Althouse Hillbillies. Real classy group you have assembled here Ann.

Once again I fail to understand how being a Jew from the USSR can possibly make me a "hillbilly". At least call me a filthy neocon Jew, that would be more appropriate.; २५/७/०९, ४:४८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: @Kirby"The government ought to confiscate all computers from hilly areas."

Beacon Hill, Knob Hill, and Beverly Hills would make a good start.; २५/७/०९, ४:४९ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Look folks, Sgt Crowley has just accepted my invitation and I may invite Sean Hannity as well.; २५/७/०९, ४:५० PM
Jim म्हणाले...: Alex -

"the horrible reality that "it's better not to deal with African Americans, because the downside is too great".

I will say this. Had Crowley not been smart enough to key open his radio so that the entire incident was on tape, this whole situation would have turned out very differently. Gates could have gotten away with saying whatever he wanted about what went on before the 2nd officer's arrival and Crowley would have been pre-emptively deemed a racist with no greater proof than Gates' accusation. Obama would have stood by his accusation that the Cambridge PD acted stupidly.

Except for the existence of the tape.

No doubt that it's an integral part of the training he provides officers with regard to racial profiling that one should prophylactically open your radio the second there's a possibility that you are or could be accused of acting in a racist manner.; २५/७/०९, ४:५१ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: The point being when African-Americans are so quick to throw the racism-bomb at any opportunity, they further isolate themselves from civilized society. Cedarford stated it before me and was character-assassinated for it. Fortunately Althouse won't engage in the pile-on, because I suspect she knows it's true. I don't expect her to admit it in public though.; २५/७/०९, ४:५५ PM
somefeller म्हणाले...: I'm not sure what's funnier, the fact that little Alex here is teaming up with Cedarford (someone who writes anti-Semitic commentary all the time around here), or the fact that he thinks he's someone who can speak for / knows much about "civilized society". Many good yuks on this page today.; २५/७/०९, ५:०१ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: somefeller - before you character assassinate someone, provide evidence of such "anti-semitic" postings by Cedarford. You are treading on VERY thin ice.; २५/७/०९, ५:०३ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: At least call me a filthy neocon Jew, that would be more appropriate.

Alex, Cedarford will, eventually. Just another one of those horrible realities.; २५/७/०९, ५:०४ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Beth - are you implying neocon Jews find common cause with anti-black racists? I just want to get you on the record here.; २५/७/०९, ५:०७ PM
Jim म्हणाले...: It's a common problem:

- there are fewer and fewer men willing to work with children because they are demonized as being potential child molesters

- men are afraid to be alone in the workplace with women for fear that they will be subjected to bogus sexual harassment charges

- whites are afraid of interactions at many levels with minorities for fear of being accused of racism

Do child molestation, sexual harassment, and racism occur? Yes. But not nearly as often as accusations are leveled, and as often in the opposite direction as the stereotype implies.

There are women who molest children too - as we've seen in multiple instances of female teachers having sex with their students. Women harass men sexually too - see the letter a naval commander sent to the Miami Herald after being repeatedly harassed by one of their female reporters. And there are at least as many minorities showing racism toward whites as the reverse.

Alex is right that false accusations like Gates (and, by corollary Obama since he backed up Gates until he was forced to walk back his "stupidly" comment) actually hold the potential to set back race relations in this country by promoting a silent "separate but equal" mentality in people purely out of self defense.

If Officer Crowley hadn't taped the incident, his professional career would be over right now. He would be financially ruined because Gates' was already threatening to sue him (until he found out the tape existed...now he's suddenly very interested in just "moving on.") Who works their whole life to have some lying race hustler ruin it so they can use you as a stepping stone?

Criticize Alex if you like, but he's describing a perfectly rational reaction to race-baiters like Gates that many either are and will take in the future in order to protect themselves.

Those who defend Gates are enabling his race-baiting lies. They set back race relations with every syllable out of their mouths. They are responsible for perpetuating the very attitudes that they disingenuously claim to want to end.

If you want to improve race relations, the first step is to ostracize hustlers like Gates, Sharpton and Jackson.; २५/७/०९, ५:०८ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: Alex, you need to go back through Althouse archives and read samples from the years of Cedarford's comments. That's the record you should be concerned with.; २५/७/०९, ५:०९ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Jim - instead of throwing the race hucksters under the bus, it will be more charges of how "racist America is" and how white males like you and I are the REAL problem. People like Beth, Invisible Man, Jeremy keep the racial wars nice and hot. It serves their purposes I guess.; २५/७/०९, ५:१३ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I were Sgt. Crowley I wouldn't have a beer with either Gates or Obama. One called me a racist and gratuitously insulted my mother. The other said I reacted "stupidly" by arresting a friend of his. Obama is not neutral in this. The minute Crowley goes to the White House he's outnumbered two-to-one. How does that help him?

When the White House social office calls to extend an invitation, Crowley should just thank them very much, but he's busy that night, he has to wash his hair and rearrange his sock drawer.Then he should call a press conference and demand the Cambridge Police Department release the tapes of Gates insulting his mother.; २५/७/०९, ५:१३ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: I don't want to mystify you, Alex, and it seems you're missing my point, so I'll be more clear: Cedarford frequently rails against neo-cons and Jews. He posts many, many cogent analyses of issues, then boom! Out of nowhere, it's all the fault of the Joos. Or the blacks. Or the pedophile gays. Or this scum or that scum.; २५/७/०९, ५:१३ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: Alex, please provide evidence of my stoking racial war fires.; २५/७/०९, ५:१५ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Beth - I'll withhold judgment until I see Cedarford slip up. Until then, why can't you call off the racial dogs of war? Can't you see it's your side that is stoking the fires?; २५/७/०९, ५:१५ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Beth - I haven't seen you do it today, but your side is doing it. It would be nice if you spoke up.; २५/७/०९, ५:१८ PM
somefeller म्हणाले...: Alex my boy, regular commenters here know all about Cedarford's proclivities on the issue of Jews. But, if you want some greatest hits, you can find plenty. But, to start you on your way, here's one.

"When I hear "teaching moment" my PC radar goes up. It is structured along the whole Jewish Bolshevik "re-education and self-criticism" moment." (7/24/09 9:21 PM)

And that's a tame one. Are you always this good at picking your friends, Alex? As Althouse's friend Glenn Reynolds is fond of saying, heh, indeed. Many yuks.; २५/७/०९, ५:२० PM
Beth म्हणाले...: Alex, you are free to play games with sides. I don't. So either provide evidence that I post comments to stoke racial war fires, or don't say such a thing about me.; २५/७/०९, ५:२१ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: somefeller - ah yuk. I was duped. It doesn't change the fact that Cedarford was correct on the other issue. It's like saying "because Hitler says the sky is blue, I will deny it". It's a logical fallacy, I'm surprised you didn't catch it.; २५/७/०९, ५:२२ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Beth - my apologies. I know you are a liberal, and I assumed what your opinion was on the matter.; २५/७/०९, ५:२३ PM
avwh म्हणाले...: Real classy group you have assembled here Ann.

L.E. Lee: you keep writing that.
If this place is so "unclassy", why the hell do you keep showing up?; २५/७/०९, ५:२६ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Cedarford - STFU you tool.; २५/७/०९, ५:२८ PM
somefeller म्हणाले...: It's a logical fallacy, I'm surprised you didn't catch it.

Glad to see you took Logic 101 in college. Very impressive. Here are a couple of tips - (i) while it's cute in a college-sophomoric way to talk about logical fallacies, in the real world, the credibility of what someone says is influenced by their judgment and commentary on other, related topics (like issues of race, culture and ethnicity, in this case) and (ii) it's always good to do a little homework before you shoot back comments about character assassination and "treading on VERY thin ice".

Oh, and here's another greatest hit via the Google: And attitudes like Elcubanito's do more than most history books in explaining why for 3,000 years Jews were eventually tossed from just about every nation they were initially welcomed into.

Always good to look before you leap, Alex.; २५/७/०९, ५:३६ PM
Cedarford म्हणाले...: Somefeller - offers this as evidence of "Anti-Semitism!!"
"When I hear "teaching moment" my PC radar goes up. It is structured along the whole Jewish Bolshevik "re-education and self-criticism" moment." (7/24/09 9:21 PM)

That comes from Winston Churchill. He describes the "self-correction" game, played of course for the highest stakes, as invented by Jewish Bolsheviks.

Remember too that Fascism was created as a reaction against the Red Terror. By the time various factions of fascism were crafted, the Jewish Bolsheviks had lost their grip on control of the Red Terror to Stalin, but stayed prominent in leadership and in the Gulag administration and NKVD teror apparatus.
Mussolini, a former communist, made the distinction that Hitler did not..that the Jews were still heavily involved in the Communist Democides, but not the prime movers. So Mussolini did not see Jews as "central" as Hitler did...

Churchill may have been a natural fascist, but he never went there because he was more a Defender of Whatever Advanced the British Empire's interests. And in that context, he railed at Jewish Bolsheviks on one hand while talking about the good, capitalist Jews who were "quite useful to Britain" notably in WWI financing.; २५/७/०९, ५:३८ PM
Once written, twice... म्हणाले...: avwh wrote:
"If this place is so "unclassy", why the hell do you keep showing up?"

I sometimes like to go slumming.; २५/७/०९, ५:४० PM
The Dude म्हणाले...: Come on, if you are going to use my handle, at least spell "terror" correctly. Sheesh!; २५/७/०९, ५:४१ PM
The Dude म्हणाले...: It becomes a slum when you show up, that's for sure.; २५/७/०९, ५:४४ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: Thanks, Alex. In the spirit of Gates, "let's move on." (joking!)

I don't have a cut and dried evaluation of this event. I don't doubt at all that black men have worse, or more frequent, experiences with cops than most white people. But I think class - I'm a Harvard professor! - played as big or bigger a role and that Gates played both cards quickly and loudly.

I've also been long concerned about police power - no-knock raids waged by heavily armed, militarized, often under-trained forces, for example. So that informs my overall ambivalence to both Gates and the officers.

If Gates established his residency, as the officer is said to have stated to his supervisor over the radio, then I think that should have been the end of it - for both of them. Gates shouldn't have hounded the cop for entering his home and asking for ID, and the cop should have left, even though Gates was being an asshole. I make that judgment because I don't think we ought to have to placate police just to satisfy their sense of authority. I wish Gates had been accepting of the fact that the police wanted to make sure all was well at his home, but he wasn't. I'm not sure why that calls for an arrest.

His continued yelling was crass on his part, even if driven by credible assumptions about racial stereotyping. In other words, I can see why black people might be wary of police encounters, but I have to hope that given evidence to the contrary (police have to respond to calls about a break-in; police want to make sure you're not being held hostage or are under duress, etc.), any individual could take a moment to assess and conclude they are not being stereotyped in a particular encounter. If the police tapes show that to be the case here, then Gates certainly should "move on."

I think what I've written there is twisty enough to show what I mean by "not cut and dried." I don't know what went on in this encounter. I don't think Gates' reaction was entirely warranted, but I also don't see why police can arrest any of us for being cranky, if we've cooperated to the extent of providing the required identification.; २५/७/०९, ५:४४ PM
Beth म्हणाले...: Sorry to see things devolving - I'm going to skip out.; २५/७/०९, ५:४८ PM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: "provide evidence of such "anti-semitic" postings by Cedarford"

Here ya go:

http://minx.cc/?post=66320

Scroll down to #51. It's still early in the day, so aging boomer C-fudd hasn't whacked himself off to sleep yet over his old pile of Tiger Beats with Herman's Hermits on the cover.; २५/७/०९, ५:५१ PM
Cedarford म्हणाले...: Somefeller - "Oh, and here's another greatest hit via the Google: And attitudes like Elcubanito's do more than most history books in explaining why for 3,000 years Jews were eventually tossed from just about every nation they were initially welcomed into."

That happens to be a well-documented fact of history. Some groups have integrated well where they moved, assimilated, never had the welcome mat rolled up. Ethnographers trace those migrations, intermarriages...and surprise many people they contact who had no idea they had various ancestors that fit in so well they became Indonesians, Indians, Uruguayans, etc.
Other groups left a history of being welcomed in, failing to conform to norms, assimilate, and getting tossed. Jews have the most historically documented instances of this, but the welcome mat has been rolled up on gypsies, Chinese in SE Asia, Russians in some former Soviet breakaways....And there is much discussion about whether or not it will be the fate of unassimilatable Muslims in Europe to get the boot.; २५/७/०९, ६:०० PM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: C-fudd, which Dale Carnegie book did you get "ball-licking Christian Zionists" out of?; २५/७/०९, ६:०४ PM
Once written, twice... म्हणाले...: Alex, you are an Althouse Hillbilly not based on where you live or what religion you practice. No, instead you are an Althouse Hillbilly because of your state of mind which leads you to write stuff like "BTW, who thinks that blacks are feeling emboldened to commit hate crimes because Barack has given them a "GO"?"

Alex, you are definitely an Althouse Hillbilly.; २५/७/०९, ६:०९ PM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: Antisemitism isn't about Jews, it's about antisemites. Antisemites are invariably nitwits, misfucks and born losers who don't have the guts to own up to their own shortcomings and failures so they blame everything on da Joooos. It's the ultimate tinfoil hat conspiracy theory - Jews have never been more than a tiny minority of the world population but they control EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE!!!!!!. The irony is that if that were actually true, it would prove the superiority of Jews since how otherwise could less than 1% of the population control the rest?

Of course it's not true. And while much of Jewish achievement over the years is due to cultural reasons (primarily the value placed on literacy and education), the main reason for the survival of Jews over several millenia is the aforementioned - our enemies always turn out to be losers.; २५/७/०९, ६:२० PM
Invisible Man म्हणाले...: People like Beth, Invisible Man, Jeremy keep the racial wars nice and hot.

Alex,

You bring not one iota of critical thinking or perspective to this situation. You, obviously, can't even understand that racism and discrimination DO actually exist and any understanding of the effect that situations like this current one have except from your perspective that being CALLED a racist is the only thing that matters. Your knee jerk defense of the cop and attack of Gates show that you aren't level-headed about racism or any other issues but those that matter to you and your groups. The comments that you make are the same that majorities level at any minority view that chooses to speak out. Rather than talk about the issue with any mode of intelligence or perspective outside of your own, you and others would rather ignore things that you don't experience and tell the minorities to just "Shut Up" about it. Charges of "stoking the racial (gender, sexual preference, ethnic) wars" are a good default position for those that believe theirs is the "Real America". If you want to understand why the "racial wars" keep continuing, you should look at your "head in the sand" approach for answers.; २५/७/०९, ६:२८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: If it could only have been Princeton's Cornell West instead of Harvard's Skip Gates, the whole thing would be much more fun and funnier.

No one's better at fulminating idiotic polysyllabic race-mongering malaprops than West.
Gates is quintessence of probity compared with West.; २५/७/०९, ६:३२ PM
Jim म्हणाले...: Invisible,

" If you want to understand why the "racial wars" keep continuing, you should look at your "head in the sand" approach for answers."

You are hardly the one to be making this argument. Your knee-jerk condemnation of the officer wasn't exactly the model of racial tolerance.

I'll repeat for you again that tapes of the incident exist, and only when they were threatened to be released did both Obama and Gates suddenly back down and decide that conciliation was the best course of action. Do you somehow find that to be a complete coincidence?

Two days ago, Gates was threatening to sue Crowley for everything he had. Now Gates is saying "this isn't about him." Two days ago, Obama said the Cambridge PD acted "stupidly." Now Obama decided he needs to "recalibrate."

The only thing that happened in the meantime is that Cambridge PD said they were considering releasing the tapes. Within hours, Obama was backpedaling furiously...as was Gates.

The obvious truth is that those tapes show that Gates acted in a racist manner without provocation. You have yet to even consider the possibility that Gates was in the wrong despite every piece of evidence that shows he was.

When you get your own head out of the sand, then you can criticize others. Until then, you should take more care of that glass house you call your home.; २५/७/०९, ७:०१ PM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Amen Jim. I have been telling this to people. The audio tapes were key in Obama backpedaling.

Wow, now Gates, Crowley, and Obama will have beer at the WH. Crowley will personally deliver the tapes to Obama for posterity.; २५/७/०९, ७:०९ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: I'm sick and tired of liberal scum calling me racist because I dare see things as they are.; २५/७/०९, ७:१६ PM
Alex म्हणाले...: Lurking on other comment threads(not Althouse) I'm getting a 70-80% pro-Crowley sentiment. Liberals, this is a loser. But keep beating it!; २५/७/०९, ७:२३ PM
Synova म्हणाले...: "Your knee jerk defense of the cop and attack of Gates show that you aren't level-headed about racism or any other issues but those that matter to you and your groups."

Oh, bull.

It's not "knee-jerk" at all to hear the facts which were really never disputed AT ALL and make a judgment.

"Knee-jerk" is Obama, who says he doesn't have the facts saying that the police acted stupidly.

"Knee-jerk" is the reaction that people have without the facts.

Also... to say that a cop responding to a possible break in ought to be expected to ask a few questions without being accused of racial profiling is not denying that racism exists. The *fact* that racism *exists* is utterly irrelevant to whether or not Gates was being questioned for the crime of being a Black Man in America.

He. Was. Not.

The larger picture or larger message is utterly irrelevant to the facts and the facts are that the police officer not only *may* but *should* or even *must* ask questions and make sure all is well when he responds to a 911 call. That racism exists does not change the *facts* of what happened or change the identity of the party who deserves our support.

I realize this may be a new idea for you, but TRUTH MATTERS.; २५/७/०९, ७:४६ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: Liberals still think it's ok to pick on people who live up on hills, and are named Bill. It's the last stereotype that is still ok. Obama did it with his clinging to guns and God comment.

People who live up on hills and are named Bill or Billy, are some of my best friends!

Leave them alone, please. It just isn't right. Lots of people who live on hills and have names like Bill or William, and lots of people who have guns and believe in God, are perfectly ok! You should look at each person's individual character, over time, before you decide anything at all about them, ok?

Thank you!; २५/७/०९, ७:५३ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: At any rate, isn't that what we're all supposed to learn from this incident?; २५/७/०९, ७:५४ PM
Synova म्हणाले...: "I don't think Gates' reaction was entirely warranted, but I also don't see why police can arrest any of us for being cranky, if we've cooperated to the extent of providing the required identification."

It didn't sound "cranky" to me... it sounded abusive.

I reject the idea that because we pay someone that we have the right to abuse them.

And while I assume that some cops *are* bullies, even the ones who are not at all inclined that way never know and *can not* know when someone who has lost control is going to get physical... as often as police officers get attacked, I see no problem at all with expecting people to take a "I am not a threat" posture with them.

The no-knock stuff is inexcusable though and seems to be a manifestation of the "war on drugs" that is so completely out of control. That and sh*t like Ruby Ridge and Waco where no one was doing anything but being paranoid and building a bunker and staying away from everyone.

The police, however, are not the ones passing the laws.

Maybe Obama can call for a kinder, gentler, war on drugs that is designed to keep us from accidentally killing innocent bystanders. (I mean seriously... who really *cares* if the drugs get flushed down the toilet?); २५/७/०९, ७:५९ PM
knox म्हणाले...: At one time Gates was threatening to sue. If he is now backing off, knowing that a tape exists, then, well, it is cut and dried. Gates was using race to increase his own fame and fortune.

I'm sure a lot of people at Duke are envious right now.; २५/७/०९, ८:०१ PM
Synova म्हणाले...: Another cop shot to death in Albuquerque last week, btw.

But we pay them, so I suppose that's okay, too.

The danger of their jobs is certainly no reason to give up the right to be verbally abusive without repercussion when dealing with the police.; २५/७/०९, ८:०३ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I don't usually like police officers. Too many are natural bullies who have a personal need to come out on top in any encounter with ordinary citizens. Even so, when push comes to shove, most people, including me, would more naturally believe a straightforward working class police officer than a self-important Harvard professor who is friends with the president.

Even so, I don't like to see anyone get arrested for being disorderly in his own house. That should be illegal on its face. But being disorderly outside the house is quite another matter. I have seen how easily one loud offensive person can stir up a crowd of people with too much time on their hands and all of a sudden the officer is looking at dozens of people overturning police cars and burning down the block. In a case like that I say, shut the loudmouth down.

As far as having a beer with someone who gratuitiously abused my mother, I would tell him to drink it himself and then put the bottle where the sun don't shine.; २५/७/०९, ८:३२ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: I'll bet Obama asked Skip to cool his jets. Obama's mask of fairness was slipping, and with it, his popularity.; २५/७/०९, ९:५२ PM
Ralph L म्हणाले...: the main reason for the survival of Jews over several millenia is the aforementioned - our enemies always turn out to be losers.
I thought it was because you were the Chosen People.; २५/७/०९, १०:२५ PM
Hector Owen म्हणाले...: @Kirby "The government ought to confiscate all computers from hilly areas."

Topography will be irrelevant.; २५/७/०९, १०:५६ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: Wait. Confiscate computers from hilly areas? Do the people of San Francisco know about this proposal? And what are people supposed to do when they're at their Colorado ski lodges, for example?

Gosh, sometimes I get so confused.; २५/७/०९, ११:०९ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: And wouldn't that mean Althouse wouldn't be able to blog from craggy pinnacles?; २५/७/०९, ११:२९ PM
LoafingOaf म्हणाले...: Kirby: I wonder how the professor would do in a single day as a police officer

A police officer where?

I know we're supposed to be incredibly respectful of police officers. Except sometimes people find out ugly truths about the police in their cities. For example, I know for a fact that multiple police officers in one of the high crime areas of my city have crackwhores suck their dicks in exchange for helping them not get arrested.

So when I'm pulled over in that part of town, am I supposed to feel I'm dealing with a highly professional officer?; २५/७/०९, ११:५३ PM
LoafingOaf म्हणाले...: I already linked to Massachessets law on this mater. Gates was clearly NOT in violation of any laws. Yet he was handcuffed and arrested at his own home.

Volokh Conspiracy pastes the relevent parts of the law on this matter: Click here.

It was clearly an abuse of power to arrest the man.; २५/७/०९, ११:५८ PM
LoafingOaf म्हणाले...: Yeah, JIm, I call on the police to release the tapes. Why aren't they doing so? It seems to me the tapes cannot possibly show that Gates deserved to be arrested for violating the law, as I already proved to you in the previous thread. The tapes might show what a dick Gates was, but other than that, of what value are they? The reason they're not releasing the rapes, most likely, is that there's something on them which would further reveal that the cop abused his power.

Put up or shut up. Let's hear the tapes. Will they reveal that Gates was properly arrested for "disorderly conduct" at his own home after the police had already determined no burglary was taking place there? Then why were the charges instantly dropped?

I wanna hear these tapes. Stop teasing us, police. Release them already. If you don't release them after going on about them, you must be hiding something.; २६/७/०९, १२:०३ AM
Ralph L म्हणाले...: Confiscate computers from hilly areas?
There'll be a minimum number of teeth required to access the webs. Say, 10.

I know for a fact that multiple police officers...have crackwhores suck their dicks
LoafingOaf = WorkingGirl?; २६/७/०९, १२:१२ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: @LoafingOaf

ROFL, if they want to hide the tapes, they wouldn't even mentioned it in first place.

But I guess that's too logical.; २६/७/०९, १२:१४ AM
LoafingOaf म्हणाले...: Sy, they've implied a lot of things based on this tease that they will release the tapes. So explain to me why they don't release them? Once you say that you have tapes that will reveal this or that, I think you're obligated to release them.

Will the tapes prove that Gates was properly arrested? We already know the answer to that is NO.; २६/७/०९, १२:१८ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: @LoafingOaf

Are you being densed on purpose? Here is the timeline:

1. Gates threatened to sue the police
2. Obama, without knowing all the facts stated the police "acted stupidly"
3. The Cambridge held a news conference in morning demanding an apology from Obama
4. Oh BTW, the Cambridge PD stated to the local news they were "mulling" whether to release the audio tapes.
5. A few hours later, Obama capitulated, regretting his comments.
6. Gates all the sudden wants to move on.

ROFL, you are so delusional if think Obama and Gates came out on top. They got owned by the Cambridge Police Department; २६/७/०९, १२:२९ AM
Beth म्हणाले...: But being disorderly outside the house is quite another matter. I have seen how easily one loud offensive person can stir up a crowd of people with too much time on their hands and all of a sudden the officer is looking at dozens of people overturning police cars and burning down the block.

But what about in this case, where it's being reported that the officer told Gates that he couldn't hear him well, and asked him to step out on the porch to continue talking (or yelling, as the case may be)? Is that the officer setting Gates up for a disorderly arrest?

All of this is speculation without either having been there, or hearing the tapes, assuming the tapes are complete.

Disorderly conduct seems like an easy way for police to use the power of the badge, and the state, to make life hard for someone who doesn't offer enough respect.; २६/७/०९, १२:३८ AM
Jim म्हणाले...: LoafingOaf -

"So explain to me why they don't release them?"

It's a pretty easy explanation for anyone actually looking for the obvious answer rather than trying to find a way to make Obama and Gates look like anything other than race-baiters that they are.

I have no doubt that Obama's people were in touch with the Cambridge PD and found out that the tapes showed that Gates acted like a sanctimonious racist, and they struck a deal: Take back what you said about us and clear our officer's name, and we won't embarrass you and Gates any further by releasing the tape.

"Will the tapes prove that Gates was properly arrested? We already know the answer to that is NO."

You keep saying that, but it obviously doesn't mean what you think it means.; २६/७/०९, १२:४२ AM
Jim म्हणाले...: Beth -

"Disorderly conduct seems like an easy way for police to use the power of the badge, and the state, to make life hard for someone who doesn't offer enough respect."

If it was simply a matter of being arrested for "not offering enough respect," Crowley could have arrested from the very first moment that Gates opened his mouth.

It wasn't a criminal activity until Gates decided to start screaming at the assembling crowd and trying to incite them against the officer. I don't care who you are. If you try to stir up a crowd against a police officer, you're going to get arrested for either disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct.

Over and over again, I have suggested the same experiment. Do what Gates did: go outside on your front porch and start yelling at the top of your lungs. When the police inevitably arrive, refuse to stop. Find out how fast you wind up cuffed in the back of the car.

He thought he was immune from the laws that apply to everyone else. Much to his chagrin he found out that he wasn't.; २६/७/०९, १२:५६ AM
bagoh20 म्हणाले...: "I know for a fact that multiple police officers...have crackwhores suck their dicks"

The alternatives are arrest them or let them continue to crackwhore(v.).

I think those cops were using a community-sensitive, balanced approach to policing which focused on the best possible outcome for all involved. Therefor, yes, they deserve all our respect. I wish I was as effective at my profession as those involved in this touching story of police and their community working together to maintain the peace. Cheers.; २६/७/०९, १२:५८ AM
Peter Hoh म्हणाले...: I haven't followed the threads the past week. Did anyone post a link to this commentary written by a police officer at Crooked Timber?; २६/७/०९, १:०७ AM
Peter Hoh म्हणाले...: FWIW, I fail to see how Gates can claim that his case has any connection to racial profiling. Are there examples of Cambridge police failing to respond to calls that two white men appeared to be breaking into a house?

Or perhaps Gates could look in the mirror and consider that his accusing the police officer of racism might be an example of racial profiling. I suspect -- though I can't prove -- that Gates would be hesitant to accuse a black police officer of racism.; २६/७/०९, १:१३ AM
Jim म्हणाले...: Here's the basic dishonesty of those who are arguing that Gates should not have been arrested.

Let's reverse the races.

Let's say it was a white hillbilly with a Confederate flag flying from his front porch, and a black officer had responded to a similar 911 call.

Assuming that all the other facts in the case were the same, these same defenders of Gates would be laughing their asses off that some dumb hillbilly got himself arrested and probably advocating some kind of hate crimes prosecution of the guy.

That he was a friend of Obama's and black is what makes them defend this issue even after the point where both Obama and Gates, by their actions subsequent to the threatened release of the tapes, have essentially admitted that Gates was the one who was in the wrong.; २६/७/०९, १:१७ AM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: Even *if* you think Crowley overreacted, there is no way BO didn't step in it with his remarks. Key point - this is NOT a "profiling" issue. Replace Gates in this story with a cranky old white guy and he's just as likely to get cuffed and booked. BO foolishly played the race card and now he's trying to weasel out with his "teachable moment" horseshit.; २६/७/०९, १:१७ AM
Penny म्हणाले...: I see that the elephant is still in the room.

At least he isn't bearing down yet.; २६/७/०९, १:२४ AM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: "I know for a fact that multiple police officers in one of the high crime areas of my city have crackwhores suck their dicks"

One can only imagine how Oaf knows this "for a fact".; २६/७/०९, १:२८ AM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: "I thought it was because you were the Chosen People"

We were Chosen to have losers as enemies. That is why C-fudd was Created (Book of Warner, 19:6).; २६/७/०९, १:३० AM
Beth म्हणाले...: Jim, I have no doubt that white people are arrested as well by officers who are offended by what they say or feel disrespected. I don't think racial profiling is the real issue here. I think it's worth talking about just how much power we should cede to police.

Gates was on his porch because the cop asked him to come out, blaming the acoustics of the house. Was Gates actually inciting the people outside to action? I have no idea - do you? Just being loud and angry shouldn't get a person arrested, certainly not when there's no other crime involved. They weren't breaking up a fight, or trying to shut down an out of control party. They responded, properly, to a report of a possible break-in and found that there was no break-in. Why continue to talk at all with Gates? Why not provide name and badge number, as requested?

It's a mistake to look too narrowly at Gates' racial profiling accusations. I think that's been shown to be his own knee-jerk assumption. The question of whether police were right to arrest him is altogether a different issue.; २६/७/०९, १:३४ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Penny,

Are you talking about me? Why am I always the elephant?; २६/७/०९, १:३५ AM
Jim म्हणाले...: Beth -

Gates was inciting the crowd. He, by his own admission, was shouting at the onlookers "This is how a black man gets treated in America" in an attempt to arouse those onlookers against the police officers.; २६/७/०९, १:४४ AM
Penny म्हणाले...: Hell, I don't know, Sy? Maybe because it's my turn to be that jackass donkey. ;); २६/७/०९, १:४६ AM
Gary Rosen म्हणाले...: "I don't think racial profiling is the real issue here."

My point exactly.

"I think it's worth talking about just how much power we should cede to police."

There are far worse examples of police excess, and we would not be talking about this minor incident at all now except that BO has raised it to a "teachable moment" in race relations.; २६/७/०९, २:१४ AM
A.W. म्हणाले...: i wonder what would have happened if we had a different set of facts. imagine that the police had heard that someone was breaking into Gates' house. imagine if they had a previous report of a break in. So the officer comes to the door, asks the guy in there what is going on, and accepts the bare assertion that he was the homeowner as proof he owned it.

Then later we find out that the man the cop spoke to was a criminal, busy stealing from that man's house.

Well, then Gates would be on national television saying that this is what happens to a black man in america: the cops don't protect your property!; २६/७/०९, ८:३७ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Gates wants to move on for two reasons:

1) People have found out about his scam charity, which is in violation of the IRS code

2) People have found out about www.theroot.com's hiring practices, which discriminate against Hispanics and Asian Americans, in violation of America's workplace rules concerning discrimination.

These issues have long dogged Mr. Gates, but investigators are too cowed by charges of racism to actually investigate the man. He is free to commit crimes because he scares the people who might investigate him.

They're afraid he'll try to end their careers by crying racism wolf. And now he's gone and proven that this is exactly what he'll do if you try to investigate him for anything, including breaking and entering.

He's a garden variety racist and he's a discriminator. He'll cry wolf if you try to take him down and he'll call on his friends in the White House to protect him if you try.

That's fundamentally unfair in our society, and we should have a national discussion specifically about the people in our society who are able to break our laws with impunity and get away with it just because they're black and powerful.; २६/७/०९, ८:४६ AM
Beth म्हणाले...: we should have a national discussion specifically about the people in our society who are able to break our laws with impunity and get away with it just because they're black and powerful.

Remind me, please: what law did Gates break? When's the trial?; २६/७/०९, ९:१० PM
kentuckyliz म्हणाले...: As soon as Gates started alleging this situation was a racist thing, the arrest actually helps the officer ensure that all the details get into the record and the tapes are preserved, so he can defend himself. Another cop posted elsewhere how he arrested a white newspaper editor for much the same reason, purely as self-defense...knowing the charges wouldn't stick, even.

I guess the teachable moment is not to accuse the cops of violating your rights in the heat of the moment. Take it up with the commish later.; २७/७/०९, १:२३ AM