"Can't we just say you had a really humiliating 'time-out,' and all's forgiven?"
(I know. I know. It's not just adultery. It's prostitutes. And hypocrisy. But they're all hypocrites, and there will always be prostitutes...)
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It’s really about stupidity. If that was the best he could do to have surreptitious, slutty sex, he deserves our reproach. This is why JFK was excused and Clinton impeached.
Sure, Eliot, let's just ask the ladies shall we?
Hell, I'll forgive you! Just leave the money on the dresser, m'kay?
Spitzer is an evil and corrupt man who tried to destroy the beverage industry and many people on Wall Street because of his overwhelming hubris and his yuppie sense of self righteous entitlement. It wasn't enough for him to prosecute crimes, he had to destroy people. Instant Karma is going to get you. He lied about his use of his families funds to finance his campaign and tried to destroy his political rivals through using the state police. Only a complete idiot would think he has a chance to be appointed anything in New York State. He has no and I repeat no friends or allies in the entire political class of New York State. His problems with the whores was just a lucky break for New York, he was well on his way to his own destruction.
This is remarkably almost unbelievably foolish.
Yes, Elliot deserves his happy ending.
Trooper is right. Spitzer was and is a loathsome scumbag.
I think I know which Althouse-Cohen boy got the better political sense: the one who tried to get the nomination for Hillary.
But hell, in this topsy-turvy world where we elected a resume-free socialist as President, and we're about to give a big giant bowl of candy to three of the worst businesses in America, why not? Come on back, Eliot! We require no morals, no ethics, no experience, no ideas to hold high office, and we're not even going to pretend that we want those qualities anymore.
Voting women demand soap opera characters.
It's the future of politics.
the beverage industry?
Let's show Eliot Spitzer some love!
Okay, Ann, you first.
And remember, Tutela Valui.
When Spitzer was attorney general he stopped the standards and practices of the beverage industry by threatening to destroy them. What liquor distributor used to do to promote a new product was to give a free case or two or do what is called a "bar spend." That is to say they would send salesman in to get a tab and buy some of this new product so people would try it. Hey they did it with Grey Goose when it first came out and helped promote it to where it is today. They did it with Alizae and SKKY vodka and even losers like Trump vodka. Sptizer threatened to take away the distributors licenses if they continued this time honored practice that didn’t hurt anybody. Now sometimes these promotions and bar spends helped keep a small joint open. Various discounts and deal were the only way a small gin mill could afford to stay in business. But Spitzer didn't care. You had to do it his way or he would drive you out of business. He also appointed hard nosed or more correctly blue nosed commissioners to the State Liquor Authority who refused to issue a lot of liquor licenses. There was a guy who spent over a million dollars setting up his restaurant and they refused him a license in a spot where there had been one for fifty years. It was because he had the wrong politics. That is how things work in New York. He made a lot of enemies in many different industries so when the chance came to stick the knife in it was a freakin’ Agatha Christie train ride. He consistently belittled and tried to destroy people and industries because he was an arrogant self-righteous prick. If he didn’t like something he wouldn’t leave it alone. He would try to destroy it.
You see what goes around comes around.
Spitzer has a lot of other outstanding investigations going against him. He used the governor's office to spy on the Republican opposition under Bruno, for instance. He had travel documents seized, looking for irregularities. He wasn't permitted to do this under New York state regulations. There weren't any irregularities.
There are a lot of irregularities regarding Spitzer.
Many of us would prefer him to the new governor, because Spitzer promised among other things to devote tremendous sums to SUNY (in which I happen to work). Governor Paterson on the other hand is going to stick it to SUNY along with the rest of the state in order to balance the budget. He's being Draconian. Maybe he needs to be.
But the allegations concerning prostitution are only part of the Spitzer problem (even with that he could have been hit with the Mann Act, but wasn't).
I don't think we know the half of what Spitzer was being accused of, or else he definitely wouldn't have surrendered the governorship.
Maybe he'll still make senator if Clinton is bumped up, but I think he has too much baggage, and I think this would cause a lot more Republican fury, and more revelations to surface.
Sptizer has no shot. The Democrats hate him more than the Republicans do because he would just patronize and belittle them. His few months in office made many long for the heady days of Malcom Wilson.
Patterson is no reformer. He loves graft and spending as much as the next crooked politician. It's just that there is no more money and you can not get blood from a stone. He has to cut spending. That's why I bet he appoints himself to the job if it opens up. He wants to get out from under this mess not give Spitzer a gift like that.
This is remarkably stupid.
Trooper, I had a friend that tried to have a restaurant on St. Mark's that was an opera buffo of trying to get a license from various and sundry bluenoses! It was painful to watch, and he folded after about a year and a half...
Ron it is hard enough to open a joint and comply with all the rules and regulations. But what the SLA started to do was put in a freeze on all new licenses in the borough of Manhattan. Now why did hey do that? They were thinking they could make it like New Jersey where you could only buy a license and there were only so many in one area. In New York you can open a bar or restaurant right next to another joint if you meet the requirements. It costs about $12,000 all told including the right lawyers to grease it through. In Jersey the licenses are like taxi medallions. They might only be three or four per town. They go for upwards of $100,000. Where do you think it is easier to open a new joint? Why would they try to do this unless someone was going to make money somewhere? Who would have profited from this change? Follow the money and the crooked plans that were being put in place to make money.
It's a joke.
EDH said...
Let's show Eliot Spitzer some love!
Okay, Ann, you first.
And remember, Tutela Valui.
Tutored strong?
Where is Simon when we need him?
Must be a dearth of talent in New York state if someone sees a need to sent Spitzer to the Senate.
Many of the Democratic governors have spent their states into big big deficits in the last ten years. No wonder they prefer to be promoted to the U.S. Senate. Nothing like leaving their successor holding the bag.
Everything changes on day one! Spitzer's war cry.
Yes. That's right. The new thug promises the same thing.
All the socialist thugs promise change.
And The People? The People are narcotized.
rh is only partially right that "voting women demand soap opera characters."
They also demand compassion.
All the socialist thugs have to do is be colorful and promise compassionate change and half the population gets wet down there.
That's why we're doomed.
I say...let him start to rehabilitate himself by posing in Playboy.
Isn't that pretty standard for a political sex scandal?
To replace Hillary, it would be more appropriate to appoint Mrs. Spitzer.
While Althouse and others in the Insta-plex concentrate on the salaciousness, the real issue with Spitz is things like his attempts to gain power by supporting illegal activity. That's from Oct. 2007 (before the scandal), and search for his name for much more on that issue.
(Also, there's a conspiracy theory surrounding his downfall; that's from March and considering the current situation there might be something there.)
Meade asked,
Tutored strong?
The reality of what government does to everyday people trying to make a living by their own effort can surprise those who have spent their lives in cubicles or schools.
MayBee said...
To replace Hillary, it would be more appropriate to appoint Mrs. Spitzer.
Perfect!
EDH: That was good. I'd completely missed it. Thanks.
The reality of what government does to everyday people trying to make a living by their own effort can surprise those who have spent their lives in cubicles or schools.
So it would appear, Theo!
He will be on Oprah's couch a year from now. He will claim contrition and he will get redemption. And he will return.
"He will be on Oprah's couch a year from now."
Will he sit there quietly and cry? Or will he pull a Tom Cruise?
No, no love for Spitzer (other than the Christian minimum quanta). It's not that he ran around with hookers, it's that he was patronizing hookers while simultaneously prosecuting them. That isn't cool.
I'm with Trooper and against JAC on this.
Spitzer is without a moral compass. He is an unethical hypocrite.
He could not get elected to dog catcher in NY state and Patterson isn't blind to that.
Ain't gonna happen and should not.
"He could not get elected to dog catcher in NY state and Patterson isn't blind to that."
Ouch!
Good God, bring Spitzer back??
Oh political death, where is thy sting, where is thy victory?
In another time and another country, he would have had giant posters of himself all over town.
What good can come from forgiving this type of behavior in a man so abusive? Why would democrats even want to associate with Spitzer after all he has done? The prostitution was only the knife that felled him; it was but the most minor of crimes he committed.
Is this what pragmatism means? is all merely expediency? Have democrats no shame at all?
Greetings:
AltQuote: "(I know. I know. It's not just adultery. It's prostitutes. And hypocrisy. But they're all hypocrites, and there will always be prostitutes...)"
I find the juxtaposition interesting. My father used to love to say that "politics is the second oldest profession; whores sell themselves, politician sell everyone else."
I'm with Jac on this one.
But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. Federalist No. 51
The nature of the crime was not as repugnant, undeservant of a second chance.
From the ordeal and humiliation may emerge a better civil servant.
http://tinyurl.com/6dqudj
The problem with Spitzer is, simply, his consistent history of abusing any political power he has, culminating in his use of the state police to spy on his political opponents.
The prostitute thing was serendipitous, finally getting him out of power, instead of allowing him to cling to power while hiding behind a ridiculously thin sheet of deniability.
Supporting the return of Spitzer to any office of trust or profit at any level of government is a declaration of either ignorance of Spitzer's record or utter contempt for niceties like the rule of law.
I don't ask for the government to consist of angels. Just people who don't have a record of abusing power to bully their political opponents.
Yes, Professor, we know that you thought Spitzer was doing a great job by using government to harass business and that "moral relativism" gives everyone a pass for their transgressions. Fortunately your commenters understand what you apparently don't; there is such a thing as right and wrong and there are people who do not deserve the public trust. And Spitzer is one of those.
Beyond the direct moral issue of whether to rehabilitate Spitzer, one needs to understand something that Ann and JAC seem to be missing.
Spitzer is toxic. Patterson has serious budget problems in NY and has his own ethical lapses.
Spitzer has NO friends in politics in NY. even among Dems
For Patterson to appoint Spitzer to ANY position would destroy Patterson.
It won't happen.
I don't think it's possible to separate private and public morality and so it is certainly legitimate to judge someone by something like this.
It *says* something about them.
Suppose that it's actually true that Obama had an affair (a lady has been named, but as far as I can tell there's zero proof or even anything that amounts to evidence, but for sake of argument, suppose it's true). It might not mean much at all. Human beings make mistakes, even if they don't all make that one. Nothing about being married means you'll never be attracted to someone else or find yourself getting emotionally involved... even if you back off at the first hint of the possibility. Sometimes marriages end.
That's not the same sort of thing as Spitzer or Clinton, who's personal sexual carrying-on seemed to indicate personalities that saw women as something due a man in power.
And you have to wonder... what else do they think they've earned?
I wouldn't forgive Spitzer. He can live a regular old non-privileged life of regular non-powerful people.
Let him work for a living, and work for his tail.
And by "work for his tail" I mean... convince the girl that she wants to meet him in a hotel room because he's a great guy, not because she's going to get paid enough to willingly have sex with a toad.
Althouse, you really don't get it on this one. Let's try a literary reference. The Scarlet Letter
The pastor forces a pregnant woman to wear a scarlet letter A on her chest to announce her adultery. The pastor is revealed to be the father.
I rest assured that you have read the book. Do you ever wonder what would become of the pastor if everyone found out? (I don't remember if they do.) Do you think he should have come back and given some more sermons about how we all should live?
Literature is absolutely replete with characters like this. There are deep and valid social reasons why. If you are going to be an asshole scold, you have to live your life to an exacting standard.
Spitzer is an ass clown who no one will ever take seriously again. Ever. A putz. A loser. A jerk who probably masturbates alone quite a bit these days. That is very just.
I haven't taken a position on Spitzer. Don't argue with me about him.
A lot of times, it seems like you have taken a position and then later you claim neutrality. It's hard to keep up.
Looks to me like Althouse was employing irony here. If there were any doubt as to why Spitzer should be pariah, it's been answered here.
At risk of offending Megan McArdle, I think Spitzer was a borderline fascist, and certainly someone who abused his power at every level he served. That he was brought down by his obsession with pricey hookers and not his persecution of legitimate businesses deprived us all of what some might call "a teachable moment." No way that guy should ever be put anywhere near the levers of power again.
I'm with John Stodder on this. Spitzer is scum.
Spitzer is without a moral compass.
As long as you have a moral turn and bank indicator, you're good.
That's not the same sort of thing as Spitzer or Clinton, who's personal sexual carrying-on seemed to indicate personalities that saw women as something due a man in power.
Spitzer at least paid money and raped nobody.
I assume always (default assumption) that the guy involved in any case isn't getting any at home, say the wife has decided that sex is no longer a high priority. That it costs her her marriage doesn't occur to her.
I always assume WPS, an epidemic disease among men.
WPS?
Women's Pro Soccer?
White Pants Scandal?
Wandering Penis Syndrome?
I think the 10:36 pm post above is one of those written when Ann has been drinking. Sounds a little defensive-drunk.
Ann, I've never seen a post from you showing why you think Spitzer's conduct as Attorney General and Governor make him so great. Are you defending all of his actions in those offices? Most of them? Which ones?
Or are you defending him now as a great guy just because you don't like how he was busted and his sanctimonious hypocrisy was revealed?
I assume always (default assumption) that the guy involved in any case isn't getting any at home, say the wife has decided that sex is no longer a high priority. That it costs her her marriage doesn't occur to her.
I don't.
I mean... what's exciting about sex with your wife? Any loser can get married.
Not that I agree, and I know that some wives don't have sex as a high priority, but it seems to me that a man who is what we might call a player has a wife at home desperate for a little bit of attention. She's the one who finds the viagra bottle and gets a little thrill of hope and wonders if wearing a sexy teddy will be coming on too strong.
Personalities that are emotionally needy and need constant affirmation and acclaim (such as some politicians and some preachers, frankly) need affirmation from *new* people and many people. Getting sex from a horny wife doesn't mean squat if, for her, it's you or no-one.
As for Spitzer, his main problem isn't that he possesses public life's most tabloid inducing character flaw. His main problem is that he possesses one of the worst of character flaws of all, the desire to control everyone else. Incidentally, maybe that's why he went for hookers and not regular girls. Perhaps buying a person goes toward satisfying that control jones.
Personalities that are emotionally needy and need constant affirmation and acclaim (such as some politicians and some preachers, frankly) need affirmation from *new* people and many people.
Well put. That's why skirt-chasers always seem rather weak and unmanly to me.
It's interesting, however, that surveys show that adultery is less acceptable now than it was 20 years ago. I recall the "adultery is always wrong" numbers are up to about 75% which is higher that at the peak of the sexual revolution.
Maybe Smelliot should have switched to homosexuality instead since the numbers for "homosexual acts are always wrong" are lower.
I know McGreevy resigned as NJ governor for being queer but there were other issues.
The Dems who run NY & NJ are quite active:
Current NY Gov - "My wife and I cheated on each other during a difficult time in our marriage"
Past NY Gov - Client #9
Current NY Senator - Husband cheated on her.
Current NJ Gov & Past NJ Senator - Cheated on his wife with head of CWA local representing most NJ state employees.
Past NJ Governor - "My truth is that I am a Gay American". Moved into $1.6 mill mansion with Australian banker boyfriend. Studying theology at General Theological Seminary.
Current NJ Senator - Cheated on wife with office employee (now lobbyist).
Synova wrote: "That's not the same sort of thing as Spitzer or Clinton, who's personal sexual carrying-on seemed to indicate personalities that saw women as something due a man in power."
Perfectly said, spot on!
As to who wants to have sex with his wife, you have obviously never met my wife! 8)
Carry on Synova, you are a fine thinker.
Trey
Count me in with Trooper, Rev, and John Stoddard--I dont much care that he used a prostitute for sex; I am much more concerned that he carried out a vendetta against any and all who he saw as either stepping stones for political power or as obstacles to his exercise of power. This guy makes Richard Nixon look like a saint.
Ann, thinking of a career change?
I'll buy, then I won't have the Althouse blues anymore.
What do you say, charge or cash?(hehe)
I would be a terrible prostitute! What a difficult job! I can't imagine. Even assuming I had no moral qualms about it, I cannot imagine summoning up the energy and the fakery to do it well.
I cannot imagine summoning up the energy and the fakery to do it well.
Guy shows up. "Um, you look really handsome in those shorts."
lol@freeman
Ann, it's just another form of performance art. You'd just have to play the engimatic and hard-to-get hooker.
"Yes, I'll take your money. After that there's no guarantee what will happen."
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