In the new Red State Update (NSFW):
ADDED: What's with this bizarre snobbery from Marc Ambinder:
(... Joe The Plumber's name isn't Joe, and he's not officially a plumber. Discuss.)And, btw, you misspelled "technically," technically. I mean, what the hell? Many people go by their middle name. Mitt Romney's full name is Willard Mitt Romney, for example. It's not deceitful. And guys who do plumbing are plumbers. So he's not a licensed plumber? Isn't that like being an accountant but not a certified public accountant? Wasn't this man in his own front yard when Obama came up and talked to him and responded to a question by promoting the redistribution of wealth? Who gives a damn how pure Joe the Plumber is, anyway? He just by chance provided the occasion for Obama to say something that deserves attention.
Actually, he's "Sam The Guy Who Does Plumbing," technicallly.
His voter registration application misspells his name, btw. ("Worzelbacher.")
पोस्ट्स
२३२ टिप्पण्या:
232 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Yikes! I think that even John Murtha's ears would curl over that language from Joe the Plumber.
How long until Alpha shows up with Dem talking points denigrating Joe the Plumber's character?
5...4...3...2...1...
Can't the Red State crew get a job on SNL? This was way funnier than SNL's last 3 seasons combined.
Well he's a hell of a lot more like the guys in my neighborhood than Bill Ayers.
Dunlap and Jackie Broyles are the best thing about this election cycle.
Even in the parody he sounds like someone who works for a living. The kind of guy that puts in the 60 hour week and thinks he'll get ahead.
Then some yo-yo snob from Harvard comes to tell him he (the snob) is gonna take away his (the plumber's) hard-earned money and give it to others because it's "fair."
What's "fair" to a blue-collar worker?
Bambi stepped in this one, and he's not out of it yet.
In the next 7 days, Joe the Plummer will receive more critical media vetting in this Presidential campaign than Barack Obama.
Speaking of claims made in the debate last night, anyone else see the thing earlier where the Secret Service said that no one yelled "kill him" at the Palin rally? Obama didn't make it up, it turned out that his campaign - or rather, the media, which comes to the same thing - made it up for him.
It will be discovered that "Joe the Plumber" has failed to follow some law, and that will be trumpeted as proof that everything JtP has said is wrong.
Meanwhile, Bambi can get away with flat-out lies during the debate, and the media will simply yawn. "Youthful indiscretions."
"It's not a toy, it's a toi-let."
Funniest damn line I've heard in a long time.
Wouldn't it make a great tagline for a blog? Or even a great name? But what to do for the matching art?
I noted at the autumn leaves cafe, the ad hominem has already begun, (and Andrew has jumped in also).
I won't bore you.
Forget the fact that Obama has no clue what a small business is, how many there are in America, ur how to run one ... . He just likes the idea of taking money from one group that has more than someone else and making sure everything is "fair."
And some folks think this is good for America economically and otherwise ... (Probably people who never lived in, by, or worked in the "small busineess" world.)
Change the topic to some flaw in the "problem" (person), catastrophize it, and change the topic so as to distract from the economic shell game.
Old magicians' trick.
And community orgainzers' trick. And Chicago politicians' trick.
Miller:
It will be discovered that "Joe the Plumber" has failed to follow some law...
You're way behind the times already, JtP is behind on his taxes.
And there are still some of you who think Obama is going to be a safe bet.
Ha.
Ah. Behind on his taxes. Well, then obviously he's motivated to save money on his transactions.
It's time for the hoi polloi to learn that they have no voice.
I notice that JtP owes less in back taxes than Charlie Rangel.
Wait, Rangel's black, a congressman, and a friend of Obama's.
Sorry, I apologize for the racism.
By the way, how much more in back taxes would Rangel owe under Obama's tax plan?
"It's not particularly interesting, but it's filling the space, and we're probably not listening, because we know, he's survived the final ordeal. He will be our President, I think, and I think they both know that. "
---Althouse
_______________________
Is that your "pat understanding"?
Capricorns aren't very good at making predictions. They also get blindsided, like say, on Christmas Eve, when they expect everything to go their way, and then mope when it doesn't.
You guys didn't hear?
"Joe The Plumber" aka "Joe Sixpack" aka "Joey Buttcrack" is wanted for several counts of MURDER. (By PETA. Of bass.)
Also, he's Trig's father. And the father of Bristol's baby.
And his father ran beer to Nazis during WWII.
Plus, it goes without saying that he's a racist.
Isn't it weird that we can know about Joe's license (or lack therof), his voter registration (or lack thereof -- quick call ACORN, they can fix it for him!!), his distant relatives (no lack, I guess), his tax situation (a lcak thereof of $ -- see -- he doesn't have enough to pay what he does owe, and BO wants more!)...
But we can't know Barack Obama's college courses and grades, see a real copy of his real birth certificate (and I'm not even a conspiracy theorist), have a look at who, what, when, where and how he did his job in the Illinois senate, see his medical records (for crying out loud - he's only 47 --- why not? STD or something??) and have access to what he did during his days on the CAC, Woods and Joyce without pulling teeth and fighting the bureacracy.
But then, Sarah Palin's family ... well ...
So much for equality and fairness, eh?
Now comes news that "Joe the Plumber," who would receive a tax cut under the Obama Tax Plan, will probably not be able to vote because his name is misspelled on the voter rolls.
From the Toledo Blade:
Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican.
Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.
Wurzelbacher is misregistered as “Worzelbacher."
A Republican lawsuit may cause his vote not to be counted or his ballot to be "provisional" and never counted at all.
Pardon me while I LOL. The Republican voter disenfranchisement scheme has backfired. Mind if we borrow your poster boy?
Joe is speaking against the Anointed One. He deserves complete scrutiny.
The Anointed One hisself should be shielded from all inquiry. He is DA MAN who will lead us, and any attempts to look too closely at the man behind the curtain is RACIST.
Get it into your thick heads. The new regime will be here soon enough, and they're taking names.
How long until Alpha shows up with Dem talking points denigrating Joe the Plumber's character?
He's a Republican. Hey, it's a fact he established.
And, yes, he did compare Obama to Sammy Davis, Jr.
Maybe Simon can remind me what he Latin phrase is for "the thing speaks for itself."
Spread the wealth, AL.
Looks like it didn't take that long to peruse Puffington Host.
blake said...
"You guys didn't hear? "
That's not even the half of it, Blake. Joe is Madonna's plumber.
Joe is speaking against the Anointed One. He deserves complete scrutiny.
Oh, pffft. You're being a WATB. Scrutiny comes with celebrity.
The news trucks were in front of his house by the time the debate was done. Reporters are looking for stories to further their careers. That's show biz.
And, Miller, wrong on your HuffPost post. Found it at http://thinkprogress.org/
(Madonna's plumber. Good one. Joe the Celebrity Plumber can be the Plumber to the stars. Careful, though, Joe. Celebrity kills).
The funny thing is, the guy was playing football in his own front yard when Obama walked up to him.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418
Quote:
Mr. Wurzelbacher was playing football in his front yard with his son, Joey, on Sunday afternoon when Mr. Obama made an unscheduled stop to go door to door greeting voters and asking for their support.
But that will not prevent people from claiming that this is some kind of McCain operation. Insane Andrew Sullivan is already on the case.
And since he isn't a licensed plumber, the City of Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider a punishment for Wurzelbacher. That should teach him about speaking up to his betters:
http://nbc24.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=207948
The lefties are going bananas over this guy. On other blogs, folks have pulled up his divorce records. They found a "connection" (probably bogus) to the infamous Charles Keating based upon a common last name.
The press has dug deeper into his background in hours than they have into Obama's background in months. This guy is going to regret ever opening his mouth and asking the Messiah a tough question.
It will be discovered that "Joe the Plumber" has failed to follow some law
Yep. Following links from Eric Zorn's column, Joe owes the state of Ohio almost $1200 in back taxes, is plumbing without a license, and is actually named "Sam."
Plus the chance that Newell Plumbing nets more than $250K a year after paying all expenses is less than my chance of being struck by a meteor.
Well, let's go after Joe. He, after all, tried to point out flaws in Bambi.
And isn't it a bit rich to quote someone else's thinking, AL, without an attribution? In other contexts (such as academia), that would be plagarism. And lazy thinking.
How does the inquiry into Joe take away from the truthfulness of his statements? Bambi is going to take away his money and give it to other people that (a) Bambi thinks deserve it without (b) getting Joe's permission.
It's Robin Hood, alright, but he's robbing from the rich AND the poor to reward his lackeys.
You who vote for him are going to lose your effusive love for him real quick.
Since I've never believed him at all (he's ALWAYS been a philosophical and moral quack), I don't have any reason to be disappointed when his socialism is fully bared in January.
Hold on to your hats, gents. This is gonna be a rough ride.
Res ipsa loquitur. I make signs that say that. When people ask "What does that mean?" I respond "It speaks for itself." Don't sell many, but I do have a good chuckle.
Ah, and FLS just wants to make sure that any measure of success would be met with the appropriate punitive taxes.
Guys, if it's true he owes some back taxes, and true that he's plumbing without a license, that's not necessarily going to work against him.
What's more, it has ZERO relevance to The Not-Yet-Chosen One's revelation of the socialism underlying his philosophy.
Spread. The. Wealth.
Joe could be an unrepentant domestic terrorist or a white-hating BLT preacher or a real estate swindling thug, and none of that would change what Obama said--and meant.
But hey, as long as you're walking up that wooden pathway to the abattoir, here's a nice "O" button you can wear. We'll collect it when we're done with you.
The sinister power of Joe the Plumber is further revealed by how he coerced Obama into saying that he wanted to "spread the wealth". This plumber is dangerous and unsafe to all right thinking people.
Who will rid us of this troublesome plumber?
Mr. Wurzelbacher was playing football in his front yard with his son, Joey, on Sunday afternoon when Mr. Obama made an unscheduled stop to go door to door greeting voters and asking for their support.
Moral of the story: "Joe the Plumber" should have kicked Obama off his property.
Bambi sat under a racist hate-filled preacher for 20 years -- and he gets off scot-free.
Joe the Plumber didn't pay taxes? Off with his head!
(Oh wait. That's something only Republicans get accused of saying. When it's a Democrat Party member, it's halal.)
You know, I really think it's a bad idea for bloggers and journalists to be going after Joe the Plumber personally. Strategically, tactically, whatever.
For you Madonna lovers...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/madonna
In a few more weeks, Joe the Plumber will disappear for a few days, and then come back saying how much he loves Big Brother.
I mean, it's for the children
Hey, folks, a bleg, because I haven't been reading all those blogs & etc. writing about Plumber Joe: Has any one of them confirmed whether he owns guns or is religious?
Miller, you horse's arse, I credited the Toledo Blade who published the original story.
You punch like a girl.
Oh my. Namecalling. Is there no end to the invective speech on this here blog?
Someone call the wambulance.
How dare some bald (SKINHEAD) white honkey mother fucker question the Anointed One!! Unleash the hordes to crawl through every fucking nook and cranny of this racist rogue plumber's life. Pull the mother fucker apart like fresh bread! Hound his family, break into his house, dig up his great grandparents coffins! Send Andrew Sullivan to his door with a tube of KY Jelly and a speculum, demanding access to his birth records, his family's birth records, and his colon. Turn him inside out! It's time to DESTROY the bastard! Let him be an example, a warning, to anyone even thinking about questioning the Divine wisdom of the Anointed One!
How quaint all these ideas of free speech will seem in just a few short weeks.
Soon we will all be "Joe the Plumber."
Ah, and FLS just wants to make sure that any measure of success would be met with the appropriate punitive taxes.
Or we could leave paying for W.'s spending binge to your grandchildren.
The party's over. It's time to exercise some discipline and pay some bills. We have no timetable to pay for the War in Iraq, and only God knows how much money the bailout will require.
Which reminds me: I realize that W. said he would establish an "Ownership Society," but I didn't realize that meant I would own part of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America Corp/Merrill Lynch, Citgroup Inc., Wells Fargo & Co, Bank of New York Mellon and State Street Corp. Yay me! I'm a capitalist.
ROFL: "Joe the Plumber has now had more press conferences than Sarah Palin."
Joe is also far more intelligent and articulate than the Republican VP candidate.
How is it that the political party which has dominated the American political landscape for 2 generations has come to a point where the best candidate they could find to nominate for VP is a woman who can't complete a sentence?
The problem is that the demands of the base are so extreme, you have to be such a lunatic to qualify for that position that about the only person left who the base would accept was a dim bulb like Palin.
And now the Republicans have discovered a new cultural totem: Joe the Plumber. They don't know anything about him, but that's plenty to fall to their knees and worship him.
See, Joe's not a real person to the wingnuts and lunatics of the Republican Party; he's a symbol. He might as well be a statue or a poster. His real life is besides the point. It's what he symbolizes that matters. in this respect, Joe is just like Palin, another cultural totem the Republicans fell in love with before they knew the first thing about her. All they needed to know was that she was white, fertile, from a small town, and conservative. Having satisfied those rigorous conditions, she was set (like Joe) to become the new wingnut base hearththrob.
Republicans are just weird.
It might do your party some good to select candidates and even symbols who have an actual human side which is redeemable.
I'm not afraid of Obama economically - we can survive two or four years of dumbass redistributionist economics, I think.
I fear Obama's total intolerance for dissent, the thuggishness with which his supporters will do anything to destroy anyone who dares to criticize or even ask questions about the man. The potential danger to the democratic process is huge.
Eight years of Bush burning in effigy merits no comment from the media, but now all of a sudden anyone who doesn't fall at his feet is a racist.
It's not just infuriating, it's genuinely frightening. If we get an all-Democrat national government, free speech is seriously screwed for the foreseeable future. I'm not making wild assumptions - I'm simply going by the way his supporters have behaved thus far, and how he has made no move to restrain them. This guy's attack machine makes the Clintons look like pikers. And I voted for Bubba both times.
I know I sound paranoid. But holy crap people - in the darkest days of Clinton derangement, the nuttiest nutbags on the right did not have this much destructive power over other peoples' lives.
Not to mention the complicity of the press.
I can't stand the thought of this sort of behavior being rewarded. It sickens me. If McCain wins, I really feel that in four years' time the media's power will have been sufficiently diluted that they will not be able to manipulate the next general election as they have this one. Four more years and enough people will be aware of alternative sources of media that we won't have to watch Democrat-damaging stories go uncovered while every Republican sneeze is reported.
I'm an urban, professional, post-graduate degree holding, English lit major forty something woman. I can bullshit with the effetest of the Ivy league elites and I'm usually better read and better informed than they are (I'm a librarian). And I am fed up with the media in this country. I'm fucking over it. They have to be stopped.
I'M JOE THE PLUMBER!
shorthand for the left: Destroy Joe the Plumber and anyone like him.
Bambi can't speak without a teleprompter? He just wants to be practical. Biden can't spell a four-letter word like "J-O-B-S" and count the number of letters correctly? He's a politician known for his crazy, amusing gaffes.
Palin gets ambushed in interview after interview while her Veep opponent isn't given any difficulties about his bizarre answers? That's par for the course, honey. You are a woman so shut up and sit down. McCain can't use a computer keyboard? Snark! What a geezer.
Yep, it's a level playing field. And Bambi's gonna make sure that you pay for that field but you'll only be able to watch from the sidelines as he passes out favors to his sycophantic followers.
He is the one you've been waiting for. Apparently the Flim-flam man was busy.
I hope Joe the Plumber got paid for that ad.
Also, I said it in the last post he was going to be in an ad.
You know he has some press agent and someone is working with him to write his book.
Obama adds a yard sign in Ohio. Now 5 for McCain's 15 along the bike commute route.
Verso: You don't have to worship anybody (much less be a Republican) to think it's a bad idea for the press and bloggers to be plowing through the life of some individual guy because one politician happened to stop by his yard and another politician decided to use the encounter. For Pete's sake: Are you completely unable to get why it's a little disturbing?
Palladian,
I'm sure you sobbed uncontrollably, just like you are doing now in classic infant form, when Michelle Malkin and her hoards of unhinged wingnut maniacs went after 12 year old Graeme Frost.
Besides, I'm not exactly sure what you are upset about. The media is just doing what the media does; reporting out a story. Joe's the one who stepped forward and inserted himself into the campaign. The wingnut party is the one that elevated him to natural cult hero. Why are you so surprised that the media finds
newsworthy the latest leader of the conservative movement?
What I honestly find the most amusing is that none of you even knew who Joe was 24 hours ago, but that hasn't stopped you from turning him into your latest cultural icon.
Y'all are so desperate for leadership that you're now picking random unlicensed plumbers to lead the conservative movement.
Hilarious, and desperate. Oh, and pathetic.
All you weirdos and that are all upset about Joe W (so he answers to his middle name - many people do or they answer to nicknames). What bothers you so much?
Joe barely spoke to Obama and asked simple direct questions and Obama went on and on and on. And on. Obama exposed his idealogy. That's what you are upset about. Do you realize how nuts that makes you? No one forced Obama to show his hand.
If the tables were turned, do you think the press (the MSM) would be digging so much dirt?
And he owns $1200? Big freakin woop.
Joe's the one who stepped forward and inserted himself into the campaign.
OK, so then the Toledo Blade story is wrong? Obama didn't happen stop in the neighborhood, going door to door, while Joe the Plumber was out in his own yard, playing ball with his kid?
I just want this blog to know that if I can get Barbara Walters to blow me in a hot tub, I will, in fact, put it on YouTube and, hopefully, have it posted here for the collective lot of you!
I'm jus' sayin'...
But The View? No way!
Verso:
Joe's the one who stepped forward and inserted himself into the campaign
No, he didn't. If you read the Toledo Blade article:
Mr. Wurzelbacher was playing football in his front yard with his son, Joey, on Sunday afternoon when Mr. Obama made an unscheduled stop to go door to door greeting voters and asking for their support.
The plumber asked the candidate a legitimate question about his economic plan and it was Obama who put his foot in his mouth and revealed that he wanted to Spread. The. Wealth. I think this is what has stuck a needle deep into the lefty psyche.
Hey, Miller was prescient, that's all. Many fine individuals have a little trouble with the law.
Eight years of Bush burning in effigy merits no comment from the media,
I guess not. This is the first I've heard of it. How can the MSM just sit on this story all this time?
Do you have any pictures?
Hilarious. Had we seen more of this kind of thing before now from McCain (in spirit), we wouldn't be worried about an Obama presidency. That Biggest Celebrity in the World thing was a good start. And then, down the toilet.
It does seem odd that the "liberal" party is so fascinated with destroying a blue-collar worker.
Aren't they the party of the "little people"? I know it's hard to take it when the little people ask the difficult questions.
Imagine the Noive of people like Joe! Talking back to their betters.
And the way this reporting on Joe the Plumber is playing out bothers me IN THE SAME WAY AND FOR THE SAME REASONS that the Frost blog/press coverage did.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Verso.
P.S. Why don't I ever see McCain's ads on television? Not once. Not one single time. Granted, I live in Chicago, but I see Obama's ads constantly. Indiana is nearby.
Obama finally let us see a tiny part of what he wants to do to us. The fact that Marx is his hero, Alinsky his spirit guide, Ayers his mentor and the destruction of this county his goal was not supposed to be known until January 21st.
As was stated in another blog, how is it that in 24 hours we know that much about Joe, yet we know nothing about the empty suit. What were his grades? How is his health? What brand of menthols does he smoke? The press needs to be held accountable for their shameful participation in this charade.
7M: I imagine the reasons lie partly within what you wrote in your own post.
Location, location, location.
HOW 'BOUT THEM VOLS?
ORANGE YOU A VOL?
When I lived in a Red State and called the plumber, the guy came immediately. One time he even came during a snow storm during the Super Bowl to dig down into my septic tank in the dark. And he said he'd bill me later.
Now that I live in a Blue State, I wait a week and the guy has a computer in his truck. Pay now.
I want to make a plug for unlicensed plumbers and the freedom to do work of one's choice.
I am a capitalist and encourage everyone to seek their own success in whatever field they choose without government interference. Licensing of plumbers and other trades does nothing to ensure quality of service. Instead, it raises the cost of entry to a field, thereby keeping rates high for the incumbent plumbers. Moreover, the people who tend to be kept out tend to be those who can't afford the rigmarole and hassle of licensing - many minorities and poor people can't find apprenticeships and will be disproportionately affected.
The vast majority of workers in the free market provide services without licensing and government regulation and they do just fine. There are plenty of other safeguards to protect consumers.
You can support unlicensed plumbers and other tradesmen safely by asking for and checking references from their former customers. You will be no worse off. In case you are wondering, when you pay for a "licensed" plumber, you may not actually get a licensed plumber - he may show up for 10 seconds on site, while his unlicensed employee does the actual work. You may as well find the skilled and experienced employee directly and cut out the middle man.
And yes, I have put my money where my mouth is. No regrets. Good results.
AlphaLiberal said...
"Maybe Simon can remind me what the Latin phrase is for 'the thing speaks for itself.'"
You're looking for res ipsa loquitur. Sometimes, however, one can't help but think that although res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?
Why don't I ever see McCain's ads on television?
He's obviously trying to live within his $87 million budget.
Living in a reliably blue state, I haven't seen a Presidential campaign ad for years. I appreciate that Obama is actually running campaign ads here this year.
I did used to hear Indiana campaign ads on Chicago media. Maybe McCain has written off Lake County this year.
Politics aside, Dave Matthews is suddenly playing a gig for Obama in Richmond on 10/26, and James Taylor is suddenly doing five shows in NC for Obama.
I wonder how much else of this is happening around the country?
Or we could leave paying for W.'s spending binge to your grandchildren.
Or we could cut W's, Clintons, Bush I's, Reagan's, Carter's, Ford's, Nixon's, LBJ's, JFK's, Ike's, Truman's and FDR's programs.
Be happy, FLS, Toledo's gonna stop Joe The Plumber from working. Your side "wins" again.
My wish for Joe the plumber(who intentionally injected his right-wing self into the presidential race) is to see John McCain elected, a huge depression, and no customers who can pay him. Meanwhile he and his fellow right-wingers gave all of their wealth to rich people(huge tax cuts, $700B to Wall St, etc.) and they ended up broke.
Joe the plumber is an obnoxious right-wing moron who deserves McCain, which means a rich comeuppance.
I was watching the news and they said it was an unscheduled stop on his block to knock and doors and shake hands.
But perhaps...it was a conspiracy! Maybe he doesn't really live in that house! Perhaps the real Joe is locked in the basement, replaced by a GOP PLANT! Call Oliver Stone!
Kookaroos.
I wish Alpha Liberal and others like his but all of that energy he wastes typing and retyping towards something productive, perhaps he could be taxed enought to spread some wealth around too! : )
FLS
I'm glad Obama's running campaign commercials in Chicago as well.
He's been a state senator and U.S. Senator from Illinois and he's done nothing at all here.
Of course, you know this.
Leave Joe alone.
I am going to put up an U Tube video screaming about Leave Joe Alone.
I just had crab tacos with refried beans for dindin and it was fabulous.
What did everyone else have for dindin tonight?
Let's all get along. Life is too short to be angry all the time. We are all of God's creatures, big and small.
We live, we love, we die.
Thank you.
My wish for Joe the plumber(who intentionally injected his right-wing self into the presidential race)
KILL THE HERETIC!
integrity thinks there's a special kind of depression that only effects those he/she despises. Fascinating.
Is Joe the Plumber going to put Mcain over the top?
Will Joe the Plumber appear on stage at a campaign rally?
You can tell he is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. It's interesting how some people react. If anything happens where I was in the headlines for some reason the last place I know my family or myself would be is on the tv.
I always think it is interesting when Americans get on tv and go on Larry King to talk about their kidnapped kid or whatever. None of that appeals to me.
And I am not saying this as conservative/liberal so please don't attack but the last thing I would ever want to do is be on tv and giving a bunch of interviews for any reason.
If Titus wants me to remove my post I will. Just trying to liven up the convo a little bit. Such babies.
Obama outs himself as a Marxist and the lefties come here and blame a plumber. Next time you need some work done in your hovel, call a socialist.
Titus,
The thing about Joe The Plumber is that he called it.
He said the truth: Obama is going to punish the successful.
Now, this is done under the guise of going after the fat cats and the wealthy, and it may (or may not) work as far as that goes. (It seems to me the very wealthy are very good at protecting that wealth.) But it will hurt the little guy trying to make that next step from employee to employer.
And that's very, very bad.
yeah. that's what this "convo" needs. to be lightened up.
Srsly, JtP made the mistake of thinking he could ask a question of The Anointed One (tm) and get a real answer.
He's gonna learn what it's like to be on The List.
Soon we'll find out that he's being investigated for tax fraud and hiring illegal aliens.
My dear friends, you know that Senator Obama hates white working class people. It is clear from words from his own mouth. He will tax you back to Stone Age.
Next up, reparations for slavery. Film at eleven.
Integrity you don't need to remove your posts.
No one should be deleted in my book.
I am all for freedom of speech.
"Did you hear that someone broke into our local police station and stole the toilet?
Right now the cops have nothing to go on....."
Nyuk nyuk nyuk...
Yes, there is a website devoted exclusively to jokes about plumbers, plumbing, and plumbing supplies.
Most of the jokes are about plumbers making more money than doctors and lawyers.
Hillary learned to her sorrow that to speak ill of The Anointed One(tm) would boomerang against her.
JtP has learned to that speak against The Anointed One(tm) will lead to more investigation of him (a plumber!) than was done for 2 years on Bambi.
Who's next? Who wants to speak up about Bambi?
It's time for us all to realize we love Big Brother.
blake said...
Titus,
The thing about Joe The Plumber is that he called it.
He said the truth: Obama is going to punish the successful.
Now, this is done under the guise of going after the fat cats and the wealthy, and it may (or may not) work as far as that goes. (It seems to me the very wealthy are very good at protecting that wealth.) But it will hurt the little guy trying to make that next step from employee to employer.
And that's very, very bad.
7:03 PM
I can't resist. Not all of us think we were put on earth to grovel at the feet of rich people. You have an incredibly servile attitude. That's your problem, don't hang your shit on the rest of us. I'm not their bitch.
Blake,
I will be one of the Americans that will be taxed in Obama's plan.
I am an individual who makes over 250k with base and bonus.
Not saying that to sound fabulous because it NYC that isn't exactly a fabulous salary. 250k a year is middle class in New York. Well maybe not anymore. Wall Street tended to be the highest paid people in the city and that now seems dead.
The interesting thing is that a big chunk of the 250k salaried Americans are living in the cities on those big bad coasts that are supporting Obama.
do you have any pictures?
You know what? Most of the Bush effigies were in other countries, which you might find unpersuasive. Zombietime does have some photos of Bush burning - see the last link - but she's in San Fran, so I'm not sure it should raise any eyebrows.
Meantime, there's all the Kill Bush merchandise and posters, and the new Sarah Palin stuff.
Funny, I haven't seen much about this in the news. Lots of stuff about McCain's supposed hatefests, but nothing about this stuff. Odd, that.
If any of these were directed at Obama, think we'd read about it? Think anyone would be screaming about free speech? Note: I do think all of this falls under free speech. But I don't think free speech is only for me.
Snipers Wanted
Sarah Palin is a CYouNextTuesday
big hairy macho arm punching Sarah Palin in the mouth
Abort Sarah Palin
bush shooting target
Cafe Press stuff that you can't find on their site anymore
Zombietime, including one of a Bush effigy burning
Palin MILP
I am not sure what he is going to do to my stock options though.
I exercise between 30-50k a year seperate from my base and bonus.
Oh hell I don't care he is black.
I heard that JtP did NOT attend an Ivy League University, nor did he sit in a church for 20 years hearing about the Evils of Goddamned Amerikka.
Fuck him, what does he know?
P.S. Titus is that really you? I had meatloaf and fresh, sauteed green beans with almond slivers. No starch, watching carbs.
Titus,
Yeah, I've had job offers for NYC but when I start scaling the bucks it never works out.
The ones that crack me up are for Silicon Valley/Mountain View that are less than six figures. Guys, I'd probably love living there, but not in a one bedroom.
I can't resist. Not all of us think we were put on earth to grovel at the feet of rich people. You have an incredibly servile attitude. That's your problem, don't hang your shit on the rest of us. I'm not their bitch.
What part of not crushing the working man looking to own his own business represents grovelling at the feet of rich people?
Never mind. You're in the troll bin.
Behold the Great and Powerful Oz!
Joe will be crushed for his transgression. The audacity, that he hoped to ask a question of Oz!
The Truth Squad will ferret out his sins, for there are always sins; none are blameless. Maybe a local sheriff or prosecutor will bring charges. For something. Anything. Doesn't matter.
As long as the Truth is upheld.
Mr. Plumber dares to ask a question of the most holy one so he must be destroyed. He has no right to ask a question. He has no right to the earnings from the sweat of his brow. He must be one of those fools who cling to his guns and his religion and his vile profits. He must be destroyed.
The media will make sure that will happen, you may be sure of that
Jim that sounds fabulous. Now I feel bad that I had starch tonight.
I feel guilty.
As a small businessman myself, I have to tell Joe he made a big mistake. You can't come to the attention of the government. They want to destroy you.
blake said...
I can't resist. Not all of us think we were put on earth to grovel at the feet of rich people. You have an incredibly servile attitude. That's your problem, don't hang your shit on the rest of us. I'm not their bitch.
What part of not crushing the working man looking to own his own business represents grovelling at the feet of rich people?
Never mind. You're in the troll bin.
The working man does not make $250K, except maybe in Manhattan now. Although I don't know that many people earning $250K in Manhattan, and I am from there. There are normal people out there ya know.
At 5:00AM this morning I watched on air talent on MSNBC speaking like you are. As if $250K is middle class, you are crazy and they live in a bubble, that probably will be bursting shortly. Crazy, $250K is working class, such a lie and deserving of a cold dose of reality.
Titus,
I picture you as svelt and happy, starch and all. I, on the other hand, need a little work.
seven machos said:
P.S. Why don't I ever see McCain's ads on television?
I was in Florida last weekend. On TV, it was all Barry all the time. Sometime multiple spots during the same break. I almost think they are overdoing it. Even his fans have to be annoyed at not being able to watch their favorite show without seeing Barry's mug every 5 minutes. It gets kind of creepy after a while.
It's not just that McCain is getting his butt kicked in by Obama but how much he is getting his butt kicked in by Obama...Joe the Plumber not withstanding...
ya'betcha.
I just got off the phone with my mom in Wisconsin.
She got one of those robocalls tonight and was all upset.
She's so sweet.
Your side "wins" again.
My "side" wants people to obey the law. All Sam the Plumber has to do is demonstrate he has a basic knowledge of plumbing, and pay $15 a year.
How could those guys not mention
SEWER MICE, tail and all?
A.k.a. flushed tampons that clog drains.
Roto-rooter humor is the best.
Although it's also funny when someone gets shocked and another guy on the crew responds; "I've never shocked myself.......today."
Nothing better than construction humor.
Joe the Plumber is McCains Harry and Louise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_and_Louise
Troop, as a small business man in Brooklyn how are you doing?
Do most small business people in Brooklyn make over 250k? If it is private I understand.
I was curious when Obama made a comment about a majority of small businesses making less than 250k.
Joe the plumber is Sam the unlicensed plumber-you have to admit that is pretty funny.
Although leave Joe alone.
Actually Joe the plumber is better than Harry and Louise.
Joe is not an actor. Joe is real.
FLS:
My "side" wants people to obey the law.
That's very funny. I guess I can expect *lots* of posts from Dems on how ACORN is violating the law?!
Its funny that this guy's being cheered as a symbol of libertarian resistance to the socialist redistribution of wealth when he IS technically living in a Socialist system already. His taxes collected over the years have just gone towards over a trillion and a half dollar bailout of Wall Street and the banking system. Whether he voted Republican or Democrat.
It would probably be more productive to focus on the fact that America is at this moment as socialist as any European economy - more so, in fact.
We are doing very well and we pay all of our taxes thank you very much. And there sure are a lot of them. I can't hire extra workers because I can't afford the payroll taxes and workers compensation insurance and other costs. So my wife and I work seven days a week. Usually about 80 hours a week. I don't complain because that is what all of the other business owners do on Court St. If you want to start a business that is what you have to do. Just make sure you are ready to pay all of the bogus fines they want to stick on you. And keep your head down. You don't want them to notice you, because they want to destroy if they can.
Joe is real just not a real plumber. That is hilarious. And Joe is a real name it is just not his which is Sam. That is high larious.
Although to be honest I generally tell my tricks I am straight and it is my first time doing it with a guy.
Titus -
This is day 2, and with the same name?
You are worried that Obamas tax plan will affect you.
You also seem genuinely interested in what other people, even conservatives, are making.
I still doubt you are Titus.
Only mentally retarded or extremely cheap people use uncredentialed or uninsured plumbers. You better have an effin' license if your going to go any kind of work for me. And I don't pay friggin' cash, got it.
Let's go Devil Rays!!!!!
I guess that explains the end of Craig Kilborn's career.
I saw the Bush effigy with the noose around his neck, thanks.
I guess I can expect *lots* of posts from Dems on how ACORN is violating the law?!
As far as I can tell, ACORN was cheated by people they hired who turned in bogus registrations. They're in the same position as Ohio homeowners who mistakenly hire bogus plumbers.
Thanks Troop for the information.
America has really turned socialist over the past month. The state now owns banks, insurance companies and auto dealers. What's next? Bathhouses?
Is health insurance expensive for small business owners?
I pay $75.00 a month for hopital/medical/dental; $10.00 for doctor visits and $10.00 for prescription drugs. This is for individual coverage through my employer. Individual plus one is around $135.00/month and Family is about $185.00/month.
Is that similar for small business owners?
Trooper,
It's NOT the DEVIL Rays......just the Rays.
Probably some "Christianist" conspiracy to take over MLB.
We use unlicensed workers for most work most of the time: DIY, baby, DIY!!!!
***
I must say, I am a little amused by the Joe v. Sam thing. What am I missing? Is "Joe" really known by his first name in real life, and he just spontaneously decided to use his middle name instead? I mean, is that one of the allegations or something?
If Boston loses tonight, I will be satisfied. Presidential politics hardly compares. Of course, it would have been sweeter if both the Cubs and the Red Sox could have been swept in the first round.
I work in HR and specialize in Compensation.
I am on the executive compensation committee of my company and I enjoy compensation data. I am actually not as vapid and one dimensional as I may sound on this site.
I know compensation data well in the Biotech industry as well as other corporate industries. I have worked in High Tech/Publishing/Financial Services and Health Care all in similar roles as the one I have today.
I have studied many compensation surveys and am fascinated by it.
I am clueless about what the "small business owner" makes and it interests me. It interests me because I like knowledge but also because it has been in the debates recently.
I could tell you what any Biotech position pays currently in what part of the country or what country but I don't know what Mom and Pop businesses make
Re: the Devil Rays. See what happens when you drop Satan from your moniker. Arizona State, Wake Forest, and De Paul could learn a thing or two.
Duke made a deal with the devil himself, of course. But they had to take Christian Laettner and Cherokee Parks to do it. And that horde of really, really annoying white point guards. They are cloned in hell, you know.
The obamatrons should be careful with smearing Joe as "Republican." I sort of had the impression they were counting on people of all parties to vote for the Messiah. Or is it just Dems? Or just Progressives? Or just made up people?
Anyways - the thing is, Joe wants to buy the business, and maybe he will, and in this country he has a shot at making it. He could even make it big, turn it into a franchise, go regional, then national... Maybe he'll make way more than that $250,000, and give a bunch of other people jobs and opportunities along the way.
He should be encouraged. Not punished. And not derided.
And btw - Obama's people, in interviews, spin it this way - under Obama you will pay less atxes than you would have under Reagan.
Well - guess what - under Reagan, the maximium bracket was 70%, wasn't it? And he lowered them, and when he lowered them they removed all the tax shelters.
Obama can effectively DOUBLE tax rates and still be telling the "truth." And you'll never see it coming because the reporters don't even have the institutional memory to remember when taxes were high, nor the inclination to EVEN ASK THE DEEPER QUESTIONS.
It is VERY FRUSTRATING! arrrggghhh! end of rant.
I am actually not the worried about how Obama's tax plan will impact me.
I don't mind paying taxes; I know totally socialist.
But I make good money. I live a good life. I am not wanting anything accept an occassional hot day laborer-who doesn't speak english well.
I go to nice dindin's, have a nice home, beautiful dogs, am able to get my crack/back/sack waxed monthly and have a decent amount of money in the bank.
Go Rays-how mean Troop-although I think this will be the Sox last night tonight.
You can't imagine how retarded we are: o far this year we have used unlicensed, uncredentialed workers in the following areas: tree-limb removal, foundation/masonry work, wallpapering, small construction, painting, plumbing, electrical wiring, fuel pump replacement, timing belt replacement, misc. other auto repairs, computer repair, and repairs of various small electronics (including a Playstation, a DS and an iPod), etc. etc. etc.
We are also beyond cheap, since we've paid the workers involved not a single dime. Luckily, so far, nothing has blown up or fallen in.
DIY, baby, DIY!
reader,
If you're using an unlicensed plumber you may want to be sure that you're getting a plumbing permit.
There are a lot of shortcuts plumbers (including licensed) will take if they know they won't be inspected. So, you're doubling the potential for problems if you use an unlicensed plumber and no permit.
At least with the permit, you'll have some certainty that things (especially the drains) are properly installed.
At a bare minimum, you should be somewhat familiar with plumbing and relevant building (because plumbers love hacking apart structural framing) codes if you're hiring an unlicensed plumber.
Titusbackintownok? said...
Thanks Troop for the information.
America has really turned socialist over the past month. The state now owns banks, insurance companies and auto dealers. What's next? Bathhouses?
Is health insurance expensive for small business owners?
I pay $75.00 a month for hopital/medical/dental; $10.00 for doctor visits and $10.00 for prescription drugs. This is for individual coverage through my employer. Individual plus one is around $135.00/month and Family is about $185.00/month.
Is that similar for small business owners?
We are about 50% higher than your rates, my company is in the greater Los Angeles area and Blue Shield is quite a bit more than that. Our group is probably much smaller than yours. And we get rated by the health costs created by the people in our local area. So if we don't use doctors or hospitals often, but other groups in our local area do, we get penalized and our rates go up(that's at least the sales pitch). It's not good. But the company pays the whole premium, no employee co-pay. I have to in order to get good people.
My husband wants the Red Sox it pull it out so he can laugh it me.
1jpb: I'm making a joke about all the do-it-yourself projects we've undertaken (mostly unplanned) over the past year. If we had a huge plumbing job or emergency, we would go the licensed route. Sorry if I'm being too obscure.
That's a lot of money Integrity.
I am kind of weird, in case you didn't know.
On weekends when I am not getting serviced I pour over compensation surveys from all of the world. Going through min/mid/max of ranges for every position in the world. I am fascinated to know what a Biostatician makes in Bangalore as opposed to Beijing as opposed to Boston.
With that I am going to now watch The Scarlet Pimpernel with Merle Oberon (who I love) and Leslie Howard.
Good night. I may be back later.
Aren't you all glad I am back. If I do say so I bring so much in terms of diversity, color, camp, culture and a bunch of other shit.
And yes I still love Althouse.
Oh and most of all joy. I bring joy to the masses.
Titusbackintownok? said...
That's a lot of money Integrity.
Yes, small business is getting killed, while big corporations get everything and they write the laws. It's insanity.
The $700B would have been better spent in loans to small businesses. It's obscene to give this to Wall St. & Co.
Is there some actual basis for the leftie belief that it is illegal to work as a plumber if you aren't licensed by the state? Or is it just the normal socialist impulse for the state to control all forms of labor and industry?
My "side" wants people to obey the law.
Your "side" also wants to make sure there are so many laws that they can never all be followed. That makes it so much easier to get your enemies.
That's not a partisan comment, either, it's an anti-regulation one.
The "partisan" part comes when we look at all the law-breaking donations Obama has accepted which we are told to ignore as unimportant, versus whether a guy has the state's almighty imprimatur to plunge a toilet.
As far as I can tell, ACORN was cheated by people they hired who turned in bogus registrations.
That deserves some kind of Olympic medal for creative spin -- "the real victim of left-wing attempts to register phony voters is the left itself".
Bravo.
McCain is killing them on FOX
Revenant,
In my state contractors must hire licensed plumbers. (Unless they're working on their own home.)
In my state contractors must hire licensed plumbers. (Unless they're working on their own home.)
Unless you live in Ohio, that isn't relevant information.
California health premiums like New Jersey's are higher than the national averages because these states are very highly regulated.
That leads to higher premiums. Blame the Dems who have been in charge there forever. That is the bad news Titus. The good news is health insurance policies must cover back waxes.
My workplace "offers" health care.
To insure a family costs $800--per bi-monthly paycheck.
I could do with less help in that area, thanks.
I fired all my financial staff and replaced them with Joe the plumber...
John McCain.
If anyone's interested, the head of the Illinois State Rifle Association has a podcast debunking Obama's bizarre claim to have been pro-second amendment while in the Illinois Senate.
I'M JOE THE PLUMBER!
Hilarious.
NO! I'M JOE THE PLUMBER!
The MSM has done more investigations into Joe the Plumber in 24 hours than they've done on Barack Obama in two years.
blake said...
You guys didn't hear?
"Joe The Plumber" aka "Joe Sixpack" aka "Joey Buttcrack" is wanted for several counts of MURDER. (By PETA. Of bass.)
Also, he's Trig's father. And the father of Bristol's baby.
And his father ran beer to Nazis during WWII.
Plus, it goes without saying that he's a racist.
Not only that, he has a picture his wall of Sarah Palin stepping in the footprints of gay dinosaurs trying to get them to become straight dinosaurs while Michael is on the other side pointing his finger at Sarah Palin and calling her a homophobic homodinophobe.
Kevin said...
The press has dug deeper into his background in hours than they have into Obama's background in months. This guy is going to regret ever opening his mouth and asking the Messiah a tough question.
And we thought Bill and Hillary Clinton having the IRS do tax audits on their political enemies was bad, now you see the DSM (Dead Stream Media. I'm coining that now) being the judge, jury, and executioners of this guy. If it's this bad with Mr. Barely's goon squads doing this to an average citizen now, wait until he becomes President.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4740
Turns out Joe doesn't need a license in Ohio if he's only doing residential work.
So much for that "we're just attacking him because he's breaking the law" thing.
On the plus side, our side's the one with the guns. :)
I'm fucking over it. They have to be stopped.
In total agreement.
On the bright side: I think between attacks on Palin, and now Joe the Plumber--coupled with the blatant refusal to really examine Obama's record--the press might just win this for McCain!
Uh-oh. Just realized I don't have a Government-Issued Graphic Designer's License.... next time you hear from me, I'll be writing from Siberia.
The MSM has done more investigations into Joe the Plumber in 24 hours than they've done on Barack Obama in two years.
If there was any real dirt on Obama it would be forced into the media even if most of the media were resistant to it. Jeremiah Wright made it into the MSM, but it looks like most Americans rejected the idea that Obama shares the more extremist and racist views of Wright.
It looks more like a right wing that is frustrated that they can't find real dirt on Obama. I went over to Michelle Malkin's site just now and she's busy blogging about meaningless gaffes by Joe Biden, not posting real dirt that should change people's minds on Obama and Biden.
McCain at the Al Smith charity dinner.
McCain says that Joe Biden falsely claims that Joe The Plumber isn't rich enough to trigger the Obama tax hike; "What they don't know is that Joe The Plumber recently signed a lucrative contract to handle all the work on all seven of their houses."
Says his pet name for Obama is "The One"; Obama's for McCain is "George Bush."
"I can't shake the feeling that some people here are voting for me. Nice to see you, Hillary."
Bill Clinton "has been hammering away with me with epithets like, "hero."
"It's going to be a long, long night at MSNBC if I manage to pull this thing off. I understand that Keith Olbermann has ordered up his very own Mission Accomplished banner. They can hang it up in his padded room"
"We know the press is really an independent-minded, civic-minded, non-partisan group, like ACORN."
http://tinyurl.com/6pm8g8
The Alfred E. Smith Charity Dinner is on!!
I just arrived home after watching a movie, but I think McCain already said his peace, and it's Obama's turn.
This should be good. My opinion of him can shoot up 100x fold if he pokes fun of Reverend Wright.
Come on, Bams!
Cheers,
Victoria
found it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRSmQqw65Pg
I may be alone in this, but a lot of Biden's gaffes actually make him endearing to me. I LOL at gaffes like the Chuck Graham one when Rush plays them over and over, but they make me smile about Joe Biden and make him seem more likable to me, not less. The guy says a lot of funny things when he's runing his mouth, but few of those gaffes cause me concern about him. I guess I find them sorta charming.
The Obama plumber ABC News clip that Instapundit has linked to is incredibly stupid and disrespectful on Obama's part.
Now he's insulting all plumbers and guys who own small businesses that gross $250,000.
This will hurt him big time in western PA, NC, and Ohio.
Wow, Obama is so totally flat, and not funny.
It's endearing!
Cheers,
Victoria
He kept looking around looking for laugfs.
It was sad.
Ha! Victoria. :)
Bambi really ticks me off with this kind of stuff.
I come from working class. My dad quit school to help support the family. He and my mother spent 20 years scrimping and saving so they could buy their own little business which at the time was making 50K/year. The whole family worked. My dad worked from 10 PM to 10 or 11 AM 6 days a week. My mother worked from 5:30 AM to 9 PM. My brother and I worked 3 hours before school and then after school and came backin at 11 PM to help out some more. This was 6 days a week. After 5 years we were making 250K a year in sales in a small town.
Now this p*ssant of a candidate comes along and tells people like my folks that they make too much money and he has to take it away and give it to someone else. f*ck him and the horse he rode in on. If people want to prosper, they can do it by working hard. Let this candidate give up his bucks to the "little people" and let the Joe the Plumbers and the guys like my dad who worked to make a life for his family alone. Totally disgusting the way he pontificates about things he does not understand.
It's an amazing coincidence that Joe had just taken a break from clinging to his guns and religion to toss around the football when Obama showed up.
What Obama really meant to say was he was going to take things away from him for the common good, but away from his script lapsed into Marxist orthodoxy.
Unless Obama can come up with some evidence that he ran a background check on this guy before the question was asked, I don't see how all these "Joe's not a plummer! He doesn't make that much money!" memes are going to help much. The simple fact is, Obama was confronted with a guy who said he was a blue-collar worker worried about a small business he wanted to run getting hit by Obama's taxes -- and Obama responded, not by saying they wouldn't, but by telling the guy we need to "spread the wealth around".
This isn't a "fake but accurate" thing, because the damning event isn't the guy's claim but Obama's *response* to it. He told a guy he thought (rightly or wrongly) was a potential small businessmen to suck it up and give his money to people who didn't work for it so that those people would "have a chance" -- the chance to work for a goddamned living apparently not having been good enough for them like it was for the rest of us.
Let's say all the moonbat accusations are true. Hell, let's say that Joe is a paid actor hired by McCain. What's Obama's excuse for what he said? That workers like Joe don't really exist? That he was just kidding about "sharing the wealth"?
Of course not. Obama the classic gaffe of accidentally saying what he really meant -- that he's for the same old Democratic policies of taking money from workers and giving it to the unproductive.
If you're using an unlicensed plumber you may want to be sure that you're getting a plumbing permit.
You people are nuts. It depends on where you live and what you are doing as to obtaining permits. If Joe the unlicensed plumber wants to do household repairs or if I want to hire him to work for me there are no permits needed. Fix p-traps, snake out toilets etc. he doesn't need a license here nor do you need a permit. As long as you don't hold yourself out as a contractor or give bids you don't need a license.
If the plumber is going to be doing new constructionprojects then... yes, you do need a contractor's license or be working as a sub under another person's license.
As long as Joe the unlicensed plumber/handyman is not hiring other people, not giving bids on jobs, not advertising himself as a contractor or implying that he has a license, then there is not an issue. Of course other places in the country may be different.
The story has become so distorted it isn't funny. The guy doesn't own a plumbing business...yet. He wants to but is worried about the taxes and all the bullshit crappola you guys are whining about.
The guy was minding his own business when up comes Obama and a whole herd of slavering reporters. He asked a simple question and made an obvious statement ....Obama's tax plan might make it hard for him to buy a business and keep in business..... and now he is some sort of either hero or evil villian and people are all over his alls.
I bet he now wishes that was inside watching reruns of the Twilight Zone and drinking beer.
My husband has a plumbing business and his first statement about Obama telling Joe the Plumber to share the wealth was basically;
"Next time I'm knee deep in a septic tank fixing a lift pump and I'm covered in shit, I'll be glad to share some of this wealth. Obama can have his share."
My husband has a plumbing business and his first statement about Obama telling Joe the Plumber to share the wealth was basically; "Next time I'm knee deep in a septic tank fixing a lift pump and I'm covered in shit, I'll be glad to share some of this wealth. Obama can have his share."
What rapier-like wit.
What rapier-like wit
You can have your share too. :-)
You can have your share too. :-)
I'll give you credit, the comeback was better than the initial delivery.
Back to the policy, there's a big difference from a tax and general business standpoint between a small business grossing $250K and an individual owner getting an income of $250K after expenses are all paid and all tax shelters are taken. There's a willful ignorance about such distinctions coming from the McCain campaign, and from ol' Joe the Plumber. (Though in his case, the ignorance may not be willful.)
"N'est-ce pas un pipe wrench." -- Magritte
I just watched the Obama condescending incredulousness ..."He's fighting for a plumber..how many make $250,000?"
Obama was born without a funny bone. I did not know that was possible.
And Somefeller shows up to show he thinks just like Obama by suggesting it is impossible for a plumber to make $250,000 per year.
My local TV news just had a report about JTP's ginormous tax lien of more than $1,000.
Can you frigging believe this? Bill Ayers - nah they never heard of him!
And Somefeller shows up to show he thinks just like Obama by suggesting it is impossible for a plumber to make $250,000 per year.
No, I'm suggesting there's a big difference between "a small business grossing $250K and an individual owner getting an income of $250K after expenses are all paid and all tax shelters are taken", as I said before.
If a plumber can make $250K from just working as an hourly salaryman, God bless him and maybe I should try to be his apprentice. Lord knows that sounds like a less stressful way to make more than 95-98% of the general population than working in the law business. But all the stats I've seen (and my own personal experience) lead me to believe that an unlicensed plumber makes a lot less than that. Plus, apparently Joe admitted he doesn't make that right now, though I don't have a link at my fingertips.
It's a plumbing business that employs multiple plumbers. What don't you understand about that? If he can pay his plumbers and expenses, and staff efficiently and effectively, he can make a profit on each plumber.
Joe's secret identity revealed.
It's a plumbing business that employs multiple plumbers. What don't you understand about that? If he can pay his plumbers and expenses, and staff efficiently and effectively, he can make a profit on each plumber.
I understand that completely. But, the iconic Joe (a) doesn't own the business now; (b) may not own the business in the future; (c) even if he does own it, doesn't have anything to worry about until he breaks $250K as his personal income after all expenses are paid, including when the subordinate plumbers you mention are paid; and (d) even if he does somehow break that line, which most small businessmen don't, he is only paying a small marginal increase of taxes, not a massive confiscatory tax amount. This is a ridiculous argument to come from Mr. Joe here, and was a ridiculous one for McCain to use as the centerpiece anecdote for his tax argument, which, I might add, probably did more to make Joe's life worse than anything Obama planned.
No, I'm suggesting there's a big difference between "a small business grossing $250K and an individual owner getting an income of $250K after expenses are all paid and all tax shelters are taken", as I said before.
Of course there is. The guy was talking about buying a plumbing business that makes/grosses or maybe nets (we don't know) $250 plus. Not that HE personally was making now or even personally going to make that kind of salary.
His question was about taxes in general and how they would impact his future business and ability to grow the business. Why is this so hard to understand?
I know a drywall contractor who is a millionare multiple times over. Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't happen.
Obama, making fun of people who work for a living and who work at a dirty hard job is not going to garner him any votes. In fact, I believe that people will be offended at this condescending attitute. That the small business guy... plumber, mechanic, hairdresser, electrician, carpenter are all beneath him and not deserving of any respect or attention....except to take their hard earned dollars and spread the wealth.
Somefeller, JTP seeks the American dream. He was approached by a potential future president. JTP said what if I do this and then you tax the crap out of me. Tell me why I should do this Senator Obama? And Obama's Marxist mask slipped off and Obama told JTP the truth.
You say you are a lawyer- don't you do "what if's " with your clients all the time?
You need a better argument other than JTP may never buy the business or make that much money.
there's a big difference from a tax and general business standpoint between a small business grossing $250K and an individual owner getting an income of $250K after expenses are all paid and all tax shelters are taken.
Indeed there is. And if Obama had been smart enough to point out that distinction, McCain wouldn't have been able to hit him on it.
But Obama's response wasn't to reassure the man that he wouldn't be taxed -- it was to prattle some Marxist nonsense about wealth redistribution. To tell the man to hand over his wallet so that some shiftless Obama voter could get a welfare check. *That* -- not his undefined "pay for everything by taxing 5% of the population" plan -- was Obama's big screwup.
It is possible, of course, that Obama himself didn't actually understand the business issues you raise above. He's never run a business, or done anything productive at all for that matter. He followed up his "share the wealth" line by confusion a flat tax with a national sales tax, which again suggests that he was completely at sea when confronted with a guy who wanted a real answer to a policy question for once.
Everyone saying that $250,000 could only be the income of a rich person has obviously never been involved in a small business set up as an LLC. All the profit, whether you actually take it out of the business or not, is counted as the taxable income of the shareholders.
So say your LLC company makes $250,000 in profit, you are the sole owner, and you only disburse $50,000 to yourself so that you can keep $200,000 in the company to grow the business (hire new people, invest in capital, etc.) You're living on $50,000, hardly the high life, but you're paying taxes on $250,000. (It is not some sort of rarity that a small business turns $250,000 in profit either.)
If someone raises the taxes on your $250,000 in profit, you'll have to disburse more of that profit to yourself in order to pay for your taxes and your current lifestyle, so you won't be able to put that full $200,000 back in the business. That means you'll invest in less capital (less business for other small businesses), and you'll hire fewer people (less job creation).
This sort of thing is what people are talking about when they say that raising taxes will hurt small businesses and therefore the economy.
And everyone claiming he can't imagine how a plumbing business could pull $250,000 in profit just plain lacks imagination. I know many, many, many incredibly successful people who have businesses in various trades. In fact, those were the customers I targeted when I worked in marketing. Trades of all kinds are an excellent way to make money.
I will admit I don't know much about what the "blue collar" man or woman is going through today.
But I did come from a blue collar family. There was nothing "elite" about my family. My father worked for a road construction company that focused on black topping and my mother was a part time secretary for the state of Wisconsin.
I do live in a bubble but I am in constant contact with my family whom I speak with daily. They are hurting. My parents have lost a big chunk of their retirement over the past year. My sister's who both work for the state of Wisconsin have lost a tremendous amount on their 401k's. Both have been long term state employees and are close to retiring but are unable to becuase their 401k/saving accounts have been depleted.
Personally, as a HR person I could never work for a union or state or federal organization. I have been recruited to work in these environments but there is no way that I would want to deal with all of the labor regulations-too much crap. I like to fire someone on the spot and unions/state/federal government do not allow this.
Do any of you think we will eliminate our dependency on foreign oil-in the near future?
My bad, I typed LLC when I meant S Corp. Getting my corporate structures mixed up today.
In any case, the example still stands.
Do any of you think we will eliminate our dependency on foreign oil-in the near future?
Yes. Obama promised we'd be running everything on pixie dust within ten years if we'd agree to elect him, so as long as the pixie dust doesn't have to be imported, I guess we're okay.
I agree with you Freeman on plumbers making 250k.
When I was home in Waunakee, Wisconsin-which is a bedroom community of Madison my mother and I drove around and looked at these Mcmansions. My mother was pointing out many of the houses and I had asked her if she knew what the owners did. She told me one was a plumber, one made windows in homes, one was a person that laid rugs, one was a carpenter and one sold tractors. I was amazed. I had no idea that those individuals could make the kind of money to live in 1 million dollar homes in Wisconsin!! A 1 million dollar home in Wisconsin is one motha fucka home. Here, in NYC, not so much.
Also, these subdivisions in Waunakee had swimming pools, soccer fields, tennis courts, and clubhouses. I was amazed. And many of these residents were blue collar Americans.
One of the homes we went by was, I think, the attorney general, of Wisconsin, living in Waunakee, Wi.
I have to admit I was impressed. My small town where I grew up and got beat up was all grown up, and wealthy.
Although, I told my mother that the city, or village should I say, really needed to improve it's downtown. The downtown of Waunakee is a complete and total dump-just like when I lived there. If the city has quadrupled in size you would hope that it would invest something in the downtown, but no, it is disgusting.
No good restaurants, coffee shops, anything. Complete and total crap.
you know i supported hillary
mainly because i was afraid
of getting squashed by her
just think how vindictive she seemed
and scarily demented
now she s an old lady
harmless as granny
i don't have anything against
clogged up septic systems
busted garbage disposals
are an amusement park
as far as i m concerned
yes it s 6 flags over trowbridge st
when that happens
but joe should be able to fix those pipes
and get paid his his little pittance for it
he should even have his dreams
of buying the plumbing business
which sounds like a nightmare to me
mais chacun a son gout
as mom here at the house would say
if she were american
but she s french and says nothing of the kind
anyway being french and female
mom l o v e s obama
dad says what about taxes
mom makes a little back of the hand
french gesture and says pffft
meaning she comes from a country
where tax evasion
the national sport
dad says what about
all that regulation
but mom coming from a country
that invented red tape
doesn t understand the problem
of course everybody evades taxes
and hides stuff from govt functionaries
c est logique non
If McCain wins I say we all send Joe ten bucks. That's 3.45 billion dollars tax free for saving our sorry asses from Obama. Only in America.
He owes $1,200?
I once owed $2,000. It didn't get paid immediately either.
What happened was, get this, we decided to take advantage of a company "perk". Stand-by air travel.
We showed up at the airport and reported in. They made me change out of my jeans into something less casual and far less comfortable. Then we found out that we couldn't take our two children, less than one year and two years old, as "lap babies." We were required to get four seats.
And then the entire trip was "valued" at the maximum possible full-price fare... for four seats with some odd routing and only getting to ride at all if the seats were vacant. Because heaven forbid someone actually get a *deal* or anything at all that the government doesn't get it's share of. So... no, not the actual value of the trip, but the maximum possible fare as if we had guaranteed seats and had simply chosen to get our baby her own seat because we were rolling in dough. We were probably the only "full price" fares who flew on that airline that day.
And then this was counted as "income."
And when we did our taxes our withholding and deductions had gotten screwed enough by this single sh*tty trip, that we owed $2,000 freaking dollars. Our car, at the time, was worth about $400 dollars. While we were on the trip, we ran out of money for diapers.
And we owed $2,000.00
So... Joe the Plumber? $1200 is well within the margin of trying to figure out how much the taxes will be on an income that will fluctuate. It's nothing.
Oh... $2000 dollars 15 years ago.
speaking of government functionaries
how long do you think it ll be before
swarms of officials
harass joe the plumber
and eat out his substance...
the declaration of independence
always being good for a laugh or two
And what is worse...
The stupid tax laws involved were designed to TAX THE RICH.
They were designed to make sure that RICH people didn't get out of paying taxes on non-monetary income... the company car, or other service that had value that they wouldn't have to report and have taxed as income.
So, something designed to target RICH people, ended up biting the butt of two young parents with two young children, with a $400 car and no money for diapers.
Do I trust anyone who is out to ensure that the RICH are made to pay their fair share?
No.
synova
don t get your dander up too much
i mean there s a lot of us who don t pay taxes
take me for example
i m a cockroach
in the lowest of the low bracket
mostly under the fridge in fact
Hell, Synova, the income tax was designed to "spread the wealth". Then the AMT. Etc.
You shouldn't trust anyone who wants to spread the wealth. It's a lie.
Do any of you think we will eliminate our dependency on foreign oil-in the near future?
It's pointless. All the oil's gonna get used whether we use it or not. That's why it's called "fungible".
We could depress the price, though, with enough alternatives.
Not by not drilling.
Blake, everyone knows that if you refuse to drill while wishing ever so hard enough and clapping your hands, an energy fairy will appear in ten years with magical heretofore untapped alternative energy sources that will make all oil obsolete. Obama, that guy with the first class intellect and temperment, he's got it all figured, see?
Freeman--
That's the really irritating thing. No point in drilling for oil, no sir, can't get any use out of that.
Cold fusion is right around the corner, though.
Seriously, people have no concept of exactly how fabulous oil is.
Go Bosox. I am shocked they won tonight.
What a victory.
Good night.
Guy asks a question. Obama gives a bad answer. Guy is torn apart by rabid dogs.
Signs in the yard.
Radley Balko's almost daily collection of out of control police. Signs on a car.
Stasiland.
The drive into New Richmond WI yesterday afternoon yielded 1 Obama/Biden sign, and 5 McCain/Palin signs. People who vote Democrat, and last election had Kerry signs, now only have Democrat State Assembly signs. Are they going to split their vote? Who knows, but an interesting observation. Wednesday, I drank some beer with 3 friends who are high school teachers, and all 3 were for Obama.
Waunakee hit the toilet when O'Malley's was sold.
200!
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