What do you think is more effective, the RNC's mailer or the Obama campaign's fund-raising based on it?
ADDED: As for me, personally, when I see this, I feel embarrassed for McCain.
२३ ऑक्टोबर, २००८
Image of an RNC mailer used by the Obama campaign to raise money.
What do you think is more effective, the RNC's mailer or the Obama campaign's fund-raising based on it?
ADDED: As for me, personally, when I see this, I feel embarrassed for McCain.
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
११९ टिप्पण्या:
This kind of pitch has worked well for Obama's campaign in the past. Look how much money he raised the day after Palin's speech to the RNC. But, I think donors to his campaign are probably thinking he's got enough to get across the finish line and are now donating time rather than cash. This mailer in this donation request may raise ire, but it probably won't raise much money.
Ugh, who knows. I cannot stand most of the campaign junk I get - even from my own camp.
Maybe a reader here knows the answer to a question I have had for ages -
Many of the campaign mailers ask me to complete and mail back "surveys". Most of the time the questions go something like this - "Do you want (insert party name here) to cook and eat babies while kicking puppies? If no, check here (X)" So, my question is - Are these just junk questions designed to incite folks or are the parties actually trying, albeit poorly, to find out what folks think?
I suspect it is just a bunch of hoo-ha! lol An actual survey would probably have smarter questions. If they were more serious and if the leadership appeared to listen to the constituency, then I might view such a party more favorably.
I got this yesterday. As the dinosaur media might say "hard hitting".
FYI right now today the feds in a Philly court are trying a case against 4-5 guys for plotting to shoot soldiers at Ft. Dix.
How ironic because Bill Ayers has admitted his gang (37 years ago)planned to detonate bombs to kill soldiers and their dates during a dance at Ft. Dix.
When Obama proves to be one of the biggest mistakes ever, the DNC still won't have learned a thing.
This country survived the Clinton years - while Al Quaeda built without impunity - because there was an activist Republican Congress that forced Bill Clinton to the right.
No chance this time. Your "hope" is going to melt in less than 6 months.
Hell to pay, Obama voters. Be sure to wipe after you finish taking your shit on America.
I heard there was a terrorist plot to blow up AJ Lynch's brain cells.
Oh noes! Too late!
Pundit Joe, most response pieces validate the address and the addressee in their database, be it snailmail or email.
A blind zip code mailing or door drop is known as shot-gunning...to hit as many potential consumers as possible. When you respond, they customize or "rifle" the next round to you and add your information to the appropriate database.
So just as in email, junk mail replies beget more junk mail.
Dear Professor, why do you feel embarrassed for McCain?
Political campaign hit pieces like this are not and have not been uncommon in any democracy's history.
Soliciting contributions from terrorists is ineffective, immoral and possibly illegal.
The Obama campaign should know better.
But is is entirely logical and appropriate for Obama to claim McCain is erratic in a crisis. When Obama has never even been in a crisis.
FYI people - negative ads work no matter how much the media wrings their hands!
The best way to attack the charismatic figure is with gentle humor, not baleful forebodings or sarcasm.
The littlest pin will pop the biggest balloon.
I'm a registered independent but live in a mostly black working class/unemployable Democratic district.
I have received maybe 10 fancy Obama mailers and one cheap McCain one.
Obama's mailers feature lots of photos of White people and so far maybe one black and one Asian/Hispanic doctor.
McCain's was printed on cheaper paper and only had photos of old McCain and one shot of the blurred back of some people's heads as he was talking to him.
Pathetic.
I like how Obama's mailers have White women looking right at the camera/viewer.
Obama promises the White people money, health care, hope, change and truth.
McCain talks about country, global climate change and lots of quotes from people who say he's a good guy.
This is like an MTV video versus old clips of The Lawrence Welk Show on PBS.
George, that was tried. It didn't work.
It worked for a little while. Then the economy tanked and one candidate appeared calm and reassuring while another appeared very--sorry, AJ--erratic.
You read those things? Building manager placed a trash bin next to the mail boxes per my request. It fills soon after the mail is delivered. See? At least somebody listens to me. Those things, all of them go straight into the trash. It's a little bit funny. Silly geese. Most of us voted a long time ago.
Incidentally, the mail-in ballot envelope said to affix 1.17 postage. Now I ask you, do you think they honestly expect people to have that combination of stamps around? I could have possibly filled the side of the envelope with 33 1¢ stamps to make up the difference between 1.17 and 84¢, that would have been kind of fun, but I didn't want to risk not being counted, not that being counted actually counts for anything, given the validity of the popular vote. My point is, this whole election process has gone beyond ridiculous, and I look forward to the next proper revolution.
The next terrorist attack will be blamed directly on Bush as part of the extended narrative. But let's drop the whole terrorist thing. I've never actually felt terror. I have felt annoyance, so let's call them annoyance attacks. The next annoyance attack against the US will be Bush's fault.
Thanks for the info BJM :)
I suspected as much. So I guess it was a good thing I never replied to any of the mailings. lol
Chip, you had to pay postage for your mail-in ballot? Weird. And a weird amount. Postage paid in Iowa.
I dunno. If I were Obama, I wouldn't be reminding my would-be supporters about terrorism.
I think I would just stick to blaming everything on W. and saying John McCain voted with W. 90% of the time.
Then, again, you can't exactly have a mailer wailing about how bad the economy is and asking someone to send a saw buck to a guy who has raised $150 million in the last month.
Embarrassed? Really?
Because a man of honor shouldn't/wouldn't question an opponent's past associations and business dealings (esp. with former terrorists)? Do you feel like the RNC is doing something that a decent man like McCain would never do?
Seems like you've made 2 assumptions: 1) John McCain is an honorable person and 2) it is dishonorable to attack Obama's past associations with radicals and terrorists.
In the likely event that Sen. McCain's campaign has at least tacitly approved of these mailings, which of the 2 above assumptions would you discard?
Don't forget that stuff worked on you in 2004, Ann.
As Chip says: "You read those things?"
Most political ads are so vile or so stupid as to push me away from the candidacy the produces them.
The silver lining of living in a deep-blue, one-party state is that I can avoid most ads besides the local ones.
(For example, the reform candidate for mayor of my city produced an idiotic flyer accusing the sluglike incumbent of increasing tax rates by showing a graph of tax revenues without any indexing for inflation or population. Oy.)
Anyway, reacting against ads is a dumb way to decide one's vote. So I try to avoid them as much as possible.
* * *
Off Topic -- How does everyone feel about Blogger today? Personally the Blogger / Google mashup drives me crazy. Now I'm forced to log in and out of two accounts that have nothing to do with each other. Let's call it Goober and roll it back.
Anyway, reacting against ads is a dumb way to decide one's vote. So I try to avoid them as much as possible.
Yeah that's exactly right and almost as dumb as deciding based on speeches, not record.
AJ Lynch said...
FYI people - negative ads work no matter how much the media wrings their hands!
The media's unclean hands.
Obama opened the door when he didn't defuse the Ayers issue early in the campaign. Are we to believe he and his team didn't game Ayers scenarios? Really?
While I am not bothered by the terrorist nonsense I am troubled by his judgment calls and that Obama, like the Clintons, reflexively obfuscates when a direct, plain spoken answer would serve him better.
Blogger seems to have re-set itself to back before yesterday's "new & improved enhancement".
I like the ads for the local races where the brochure omits any mention of the candidate's political party.
Host with the Most said...
When Obama proves to be one of the biggest mistakes ever, the DNC still won't have learned a thing.
This country survived the Clinton years - while Al Quaeda built without impunity - because there was an activist Republican Congress that forced Bill Clinton to the right.
No chance this time. Your "hope" is going to melt in less than 6 months.
Hell to pay, Obama voters. Be sure to wipe after you finish taking your shit on America.
Look in the mirror to see who took the big steaming shit on America for the last 8 years.
I'm in a mood today, keep going douchie douchebag.
McCain's mailer was a disgrace. He is Fredo to me, all that's missing is the kiss and the boat to throw him overboard. To think that I used to like and respect this putz.
I want you to argue with them and get in their face
-Barack Obama, 9/17/08
Richard said the robber took $60 from the woman, then became angry when he saw a McCain bumper sticker on the victim's car. The attacker then punched and kicked the victim, before using the knife to scratch the letter "B" into her face, Richard said.
-Pittsburg, PA 10/22/08
I'm really more interested in all the illegal campaign contributions and voter fraud that are being discussed over at Ace, sorry. Bad ads are not illegal.
It begins to have the tonality of tinfoil-hatted conspiracy-theory foreboding. Not a good sign; rather, a little "off-kilter" sounding and all too easy for Obama's team to parody as being ridiculously overblown (which they've done an excellent job of framing so far).
The guy that said humor works better is correct, notwithstanding the brief dismissive comments of Simon; the issue with the humor attack stopping working was the economic crisis/meltdown, not that the campaign's tact was ineffective. It was showing signs of puncturing his balloon of inevitability.
Unfortunately for McCain, the subsequent economic crisis has showcased his weaknesses and his "erratic" response has not exactly inspired confidence.
By the way, it's pretty clear to me that Obama's the "establishment"'s candidate this time out, just as Bush was the last two times and Clinton the two before him (yes, even against Bush 41). Look at his advisors, including Volcker and all those old 80's bulls. Biden was most likely saying to a bunch of lefty backers the other day that Obama's response to any foreign affairs issues is going to be the Bush way, which was in theory (regime change as national policy, anyone?) the Clinton way, and the Bush 41 and Reagan ways before him (and so on, and so on... just like that shampoo commercial from the 80's). That's why the lefties will be disappointed and outraged, and Biden was likely saying to them, "you'll sit on your hands and you'll like it."
McCain and the RNC, by contrast, are looking and sounding like shitheels. It's all in the framing, and all in the largely unfair narrative that's now been hardened into place, but it is what it is.
Barring some sort of incredible upset on the 4th, we're in for something approximating the banalities of the early 90's, at least until the markets figure out where the next bubble is. Under this scenario (i.e. if I'm correct, and a big "who knows" to that), McCain would be a 1-term president and Obama would stand a decent chance to be a 2-termer, particularly if the Congress fails to pull its head out and gets its majority trimmed or reversed in 2010.
I don't even know which of these two idiots I would prefer to win anymore. "Message: you are both idiots"
Seems like McCain thinks we're just a bunch of idiots and Obama is thinking he can make some money by pointing out how McCain thinks we're a bunch of idiots.
itegrity,
Put up. Seriously. I'll be respectful
Tell me how you have suffered in this country one bit in the last 8 years.
Before you get started, see if you can answer this one, because not one liberal and/or Bush hater has ever been able to answer it yet, and I've been asking it for over 3 years:
What rights do you no longer have in 2008 that you enjoyed in 2000?
Here's something to think about. Since 2000:
- Gay marriage is the law of the land in 3 states.
- Any woman wanting an abortion in the United States is not prohibited by law from having one.
Under Obama, fascism and legal union intimidation will become the law of the United States. It's a fact. and nothing like that even began under Bush.
So,put up.
Unfortunately the Obama campaign doesn't accept in-kind donations.
They could use an economics text book.
Having worked in that biz for a long time, I can say that they all sorta embarrass me.
I'm dubious that they're effective.
I wish the RNC would switch off this strain of negative ads, i.e. the idea of saying "Terrorists are among us... We don't know the real Barry O". It's playing a rather gutteral style of politics, and hell knows it sure worked for Johnson against Goldwater, but I don't envy the Republicans being boxed in by the hostile teabagged media and the race issue.
Most Republicans are so frightened of being called racists that they embarrass themselves preemptively at any opportunity rather than standing their ground. Younger Republicans are generally less inclined to prostrate themselves before the racism-invokers than their elders, but they're not running the show yet, so this nonsense will continue to be effective for awhile longer.
In the 2008 campaign environment, however, hardcopies of these sorts of ads will stand as a testament to Republicans' intolerance and racism. Here's to giving fodder to another generation of grievance mongers!
They really are the stupid party. Too bad for America, that in every election in recent memory it's been about which party was in greater disarray rather than which was offering a debatably (and debatedly) better program. Instead we have liar's poker betweeen a bunch of idiots whose competition consists of opposition research into the contents of each other's underwear drawers.
Idiots.
I'm with Jethro Tull on this one:
"Really don't mind if I sit this one out..."
McCain is using race to attack Obama
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17789356/detail.html
Bad Mcain...
Veni--
The humor thing. Simon may be right, though it's part of the equation.
An emperor-wears-no-clothes TV ad might be fun.
The problem with the terrorist angle is that it requires that people actually think about something, and when and if they do, it's all too unbelievable. Those two guys actually had offices on the same floor of a building where Michael Klonsky's offices were. He's another education prof. who got $1 mil+ from CAC, and he started a Communist party in the 1970s! It's all so nuts, people blank it out, and it doesn't register. Sen. Obama goes to a church whose minister called the Secretary of State "Condoskeeza." And on and on.
And the other creepier levels....the JFK martyr death trip thing...and now today the black revenge angle.
A few days ago the Professor referenced a New Yorker article about how Palin was picked; in the same issue is a profile of Mugabe. In it we find, he's a Maoist who's relied on North Korean military trainers for 20+ years. (Translation: He uses starvation as a policy instrument.) Bizarre. It can't be true. It's easier to think about fashion.
So you are embarrassed by McCain, but you say nothing about how you feel about Obama in cahoots with ACORN to steal votes to the tune of $800,00, or Obama's campaign disenabling credit card security settings so they can accept illegal campaign contributions in the millions from made up people, domestic and foreign, both of which contravene election law.
No need to mention that, because I guess that's not as embarrassing as McCain's campaign.
One's all image, one's all about breaking the law. Shows where your heart is, I guess.
Obama is not a terrorist. No one he knows is a terrorist either. The only terrorists are those who disagree with him. I agree with everything he has ever thought or said.
Talk about campaign mailers, honest to God, you are not going to believe what just happened.
There is a knock at the door.
It’s a guy.
He says Natalie Portman and Rashida Jones are in the van parked out by the curb with a bunch of puppies and they’d like to talk to me about who I’m going to vote for this election.
How could I say no?
. . .
. . .
. . .
Okay, okay . . . I’ll tell you all what happened . . .
I’M CHANGING MY VOTE!!1!!!1!!!!
woof.
aside from both of them violating every rule of page layout known to man...the proof is in the pudding or the dollars...although I am betting everyone is so sick of this that their hair is on fire.
mcCain appears to be cleaner as in cleaning up his heretofore slimey messaging...but it is merely lipstick on a pig.
did I really say that?
Trevor Jackson said...
"It worked for a little while. Then the economy tanked"
The economy didn't tank. Wall Street tanked. Economy still worked just fine out here in Indiana.
I'm not an economist, I don't know if the bailout was a necessary evil or just evil; but either way, it is entirely obvious to me that it was a mistake, because as bad as it is having Hank Paulson having that power, imagine what that power could be used for, as seems depressingly likely, Voldemort wins the election. The hope has to be that it'll be struck down on non-delegation grounds.
Randy, that puts a chilling new spin on "yes we carve" - why hasn't this story gotten more attention?!
The Terrorists don't care if they hurt real, patriotic Americans or the other kind.
Randy, that puts a chilling new spin on "yes we carve" - why hasn't this story gotten more attention?!
Just speculating....because the bad guy is a black person and the victim is white? And before anyone else chimes in....here let me....RACIST!!!!!
If Obama were to lose, I wouldn't want to be within 50 miles of an urban area...oh, wait. That already is the case. Whew. If encountering blacks I would give a wide berth and avoid the possible confrontation.....once again and all together now. She is >>>> RACIST!!!!
I'm not racist and don't give a shit if anyone wants to call me that. I am not stupid or foolish either and go out of my way to avoid dangerous situations. I don't walk alone at night in the woods, cougars and bears oh my. I don't park my car and leave the keys in the ignition. Discretion being the better part of valor and all that.
According to Larry Grathwohl who apparently infiltrated the Weather Underground for Cinncinati Police, he was in a meeting where the WU were talking about what they would do after they toppled the American government.
They said they would have to round up all those who refused to convert to communist and put them in re-education camps to "convince" them to convert.
They said that those who would not convert had to be eliminated, i.e. killed.
They estimated they would have to kill 25 million Americans.
That sent a chill up my spine.
Obama's neighbor, babysitter fundraiser, career starter, "educator", "activist", and fellow Annenberg chair Bill Ayers, and his wife Bernadine Dohrn, as leaders of the The Weather Underground, plotted the extermination of the 25 million Americans.
From Confederate yankee:
"I asked, "well what is going to happen to those people we can't reeducate, that are diehard capitalists?" and the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated.
And when I pursued this further, they estimated they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers.
And when I say "eliminate," I mean "kill."
Twenty-five million people.
I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people.
And they were dead serious. "
McCain should be embarrassed?
McCain??!!??
Shit.
DBQ, to add insult to injury, the PA Hate Crimes law doesn't even apply. It only covers violence exacerbated by race, national origin, the usual suspects.
Simon said...Randy, that puts a chilling new spin on "yes we carve" - why hasn't this story gotten more attention?!
This has a Morton Downeyish feel to it.
Why is the "B" written backwards?
Dyslexic stick-up man?
I don't understand why you would feel any compassion for McCain because of this. That sounds as if he had no choice in whether this went out or not, which is clearly not the case. He has endorsed the entire path to lead up to this point - and now he has no problem signing off on the full fruition of what he has been insinuating for a long time. Why not feel sorry for the Muslim Americans, and African Americans, and all Americans of color, that are more in danger because of the hate McCain and Palin continue to drum up?
Why is the "B" written backwards?
Well, it isn't backwards if you look at it as if you were looking at her face upside down. From the top of her head instead of frontally.
I suppose you will say she did a good job of giving herself a black eye too?
jdeeripper said...
"Why is the "B" written backwards?"
For God's sake, why does it matter?! A supporter of Barack carves a letter "B" into the face of a woman because she supports McCain, and you're worried about his handwriting?!
Cormac,
If McCain and Palin were really stirring up hate, Bill Ayers would be dead by now.
Please put down the NYT and step away from it. This is typical election bullshit, just like Obama's surrogates accusing McCain of being racist and accusing Bill Clinton of being racist.
Neither McCain nor Obama are angels or monsters. They're just politicians. Grow up.
DBQ - Can there now be any doubt whatsoever that if Obama loses, people are going to die?
"Why not feel sorry for the Muslim Americans, and African Americans, and all Americans of color, that are more in danger because of the hate McCain and Palin continue to drum up?"
It's official, the idiots, in this episode led by Karnak, have arrived on-thread. Proceed accordingly.
mccullough said...
"Neither McCain nor Obama are angels or monsters. They're just politicians."
Yeah? Well Ashley Todd wasn't a politician.
Can there now be any doubt whatsoever that if Obama loses, people are going to die?
Nope.
However, forewarned is forearmed
"Why is the "B" written backwards?"
Ace spells it out for idiots.
Next you'll be squeeing that McCain's campaign didn't vet her before they sent her out to get beat up.
"Hell to pay, Obama voters. Be sure to wipe after you finish taking your shit on America."
A truly vile comment.
How long is the media going to cover up the story? There's nothing on AP, ABC, CBS, the NYT, you name it, they don't yet have a word about it. One idiot or agent provocateur is alleged - alleged! Didn't even happen! - to yell something about Obama at a Palin rally and it's wall to wall coverage, but actual politically-motivated violence against a McCain support by an Obama supporter? The dogs that didn't bark.
Simon,
Gimme a break. Obama's as resonsible for this young woman's attack as Michael Jordan was for people killing each other over gym shoes.
Simon,
I agree that the national media is completely duplicitous here.
I'd prefer if the national media didn't report about random comments by a handful of yahoos at campaign events or the random acts of vandalism or violence committed by "supporters" but if they are going to report about the viciousness of McCain's "supporters" then they should have the fucking decency to do the same when Obama's "supporters" do the same as well.
McCullough--
That didn't stop the press from relating the "kill him" story.
That's really the point.
Although, at this point, the point is less pointed. It's dog-bites-man.
I downloaded the picture and flipped it 180 degrees the blew it up to look at the presentation of the "B" shaped lesion and the contusions below her eyes.
I may be wrong, but in the picture the "B" presents more like an abrasion of the sort you'd get by rubbing your skin with a pencil eraser.
Note the width and depth of the lesion and compare it to a knife cut you have had.
I'm not saying it is not a knife wound, I'm just saying it does not present as a classic blade inflicted wound in the picture.
Also, the penmanship is quite good especially given the situation. I would not expect to see such a precise "B" given the manner in which the wound was received.
Some people (me) can't print a "B" that large that well on a piece of paper, much less on a squirming young woman...
The lack of swelling around her eyes may be an indication of something as well depending on how much time elapsed between when she was attacked and when the photo was taken.
I may well be completely wrong.
My best wishes to the young woman for a rapid recovery.
McCullough:
You are correct that McCain and Obama are politicians. I happen to respect the latter (for the past 4 years, plus) and the former (for 8 years, until tonight) and apologize for neither of my standings, naive thought they may be.
I do disagree with your assumption that hatred has to culminate in execution, though. By your standards, so long as business owners refuse to hire someone of color but don't kill them, there is no 'hatred' to speak of in this context.
Maybe I'm not the only one who needs to grow up.
cormac
I wouldn't know, Terry, I lack your experience of mutilating women's faces.
I have an idea, why not get the police report instead of making a vile creature of yourself with your CSI imitation.
It's probably safe to say that, were someone to have a knife pressing into your skin, squirming would be the last activity you'd be engaging in with the part of your body that's under the knife. Especially when squirming would improve the chances of the blade slipping into your eyeball, for instance.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% sold on this story, but let's try to maintain a little perspective during this proctological examination, shall we?
"He's who you think he is."
Haven't seen the Chauncey Gardener strategy so blatantly acknowledged before...
Of course, most people don't think of Obama as a Chomskey-esque fellow traveler, but with luck word will get out somehow.
Yeah, Ann, McCain's mailer was about as subtle as a brick through your window, and Obama's was as slick as we've come to expect.
Still, I know which man I'd rather have at my back should things go pear-shaped.
Cormac,
Obama bought his $1.5 million house with the help of a man he knew was under federal investigation for corruption. That same man helped finance Obama's political career from 1995 through his election as a U.S. Senator in 2004.
Obama plays the race card when it suits him. He uses people like Rev. Wright and then discards him when it suits him. He is as typical a politician as there is.
You can respect him all you want but he is what he is, just like McCain is what he is. Politician.
As for business owners not hiring "someone of color," please show me how McCain's campaign, or Obama's campaing for that matter, in any way has any effect on this.
Certainly Obama's fiscal policies will kill small business jobs and hurt workers "of color" but I seriously doubt John McCain calling attention to Obama's convenient friendship with an unrepetant domestic terrorist (and a fucking white one at that) is going to affect race relations in this country.
So grow up.
Simon: The story will get attention. Before long, we will probably know far more than we want to about the woman's past: her employment history, her credit history, her sexual encounters, whether or not she cheated on a test in the fourth grade. If she truly is the victim, she won't deserve the treatment but she'll get it. OTOH, if it turns out she's like this woman...
Compare the Duke Lacrosse incident. The only question here is whether the media is waiting for Barack to tell them how to report this or whether they're out desperately trying to hunt down something to discredit this young woman with to make her less sympathetic.
I voted absentee today. For President, and Governor, and the ballot iniatives. That's all I had planned to do; I usually abstain when I haven't followed the race.
But the mailer I got last weekend from the Missouri GOP (different but similar to this one) convinced me to vote for Democrats all down the line.
I doubt I'm the only one. Big coattails this year, I'll bet.
Why aren't the media reporting on Ashley Todd?
“This is what she’s telling police,” police spokeswoman Diane Richard said. “We can’t substantiate it at this time.”
Even Michelle Malkin is calling this fishy. But of course, I knew I could come here and find some true believers. So predictable, and sad.
Simon said...jdeeripper said..."Why is the "B" written backwards?"
For God's sake, why does it matter?! A supporter of Barack carves a letter "B" into the face of a woman because she supports McCain, and you're worried about his handwriting?!
No. I'm worried about HER handwriting.
Some 6'4" 220 pound black thug attacks her and beats her and then carves a precise B in her face with both ends of the B ending perfectly at the straight vertical line of the B?
And this is done to a woman in great pain and terrified? And the B is backward.
My suspicion is she did it to herself.
ZPS,
Now you now how the non-Obama supporters feel everytime there's some bogus news story related to the campaign, which is pretty much every day.
Nonetheless, I expect a sizeable chunk of the Duke faculty to rush this girl's defense. Any minute now. Any minute.
Never mind. She's white.
Randy, I hadn't seen your last comment when I posted my last, but I agree. If the story turns out to be true, the MSM will ignore it for as long as they can, hoping that the story will either go away, or something will turn up that can make her seem less sympathetic.
Still nothing on CNN about this. Still nothing on Nytimes.com or washingtonpost.com. Is there anything on AP yet? Nothing on abcnews.com. Meanwhile, if someone had yelled the N word at a Palin rally -- even if they're wearing an Obama t-shirt. even if they're a known campaign worker for Obama. Even if it's David fucking Axelrod -- there would have been wall to wall media coverage inside of twenty minutes. NBC would have interrupted your regularly-scheduled programing to bring you a live on-the-sport action report for that - shit, they'd have broken into sports coverage for something that important. But a poltically-motivated attack on a McCain supporter by an Obam supporter? Gee, better wait a few hours to get confirmation on that, Charlie...
Oh, and to drive this to sher parody - ABCnws can't make time for the above, but they have a story about how a poor harassed Obama supporter was pulled over by the cops, even though he had an Obama bumper sticker!
Someone in the media needs their ass kicked good and proper.
"'...and you're worried about his handwriting?!'
No. I'm worried about HER handwriting."
LOL!
"Some 6'4" 220 pound black thug attacks her and beats her and then carves a precise B in her face with both ends of the B ending perfectly at the straight vertical line of the B?"
I too was struck by the extraordinarily good penmanship considering the circumstances. Even when the pic is viewed upside-down, unless she was unconscious the attacker is truly gifted: such accuracy and artistic touch without even breaking the skin!
A strong aroma of fish hangs over this story, at least until more evidence is produced.
Jesus Simon, chill out. The reason why all the mobs at the Palin/McCain rallies were reported is because there was, you know, actual evidence.
Zach, JD - well, I tell you what. When you have a friend beat the crap out of you and carve an "M" in your face, I'll believe that you take serious the idea that a young woman did that to herself. It may have escaped your noticed, but getting beaten up and maimed aren't traditionally conservative passtimes.
vvv,
The shiner on her face looks pretty real.
Maybe she paid someone to do it to her like the killer from the first "Dirty Harry" flick.
It would be pretty hard to give yourself a black-eye like that.
Anyway, ATMs have video on them so they should at least be able to capture some of the mugging. And, even without the video, her bank statements would corrobate, at the very least, that she took money out at the time she said she did.
I mean, I don't usually say to friends: "what shall we do tonight? I thought maybe we'd catch a movie, go to Bob Evans, and then maybe hit up a wine bar; and then, if there's time, oh, I don't know, maybe you could beat seven bails out of me, cut on me a little, and I'll call the cops and say it was a politically motivated attack? How does that sound? Do we have a plan?"
Are you kidding me?
"“This is what she’s telling police,” police spokeswoman Diane Richard said. “We can’t substantiate it at this time.”
Well Zachary is, as usual mostly full of shit, but about this he's right. I would be very careful before trumpeting the Ashley Todd story from the rooftops, Simon. It does sound fishy, and it's the kind of thing that is extremely embarrassing if it turns out to be false. If it turns out to be true, what of it? A terrible incident, perhaps a symptom of larger problem, but you can hardly blame it on Obama himself. There is plenty to blame on Obama without this sort of nonsense.
As I said, proceed with caution.
Anyway, ATMs have video on them so they should at least be able to capture some of the mugging.
Yep.
Zach, I'm sure when they found Matthew Shepherd, the first words out of you mouth were "Jesus, everyone, chill out; we can’t substantiate it yet; this is fishy and there's no evidence..."
Are you kidding me?
You act like there aren't mentally deranged people out there. Remember Morton Downey Jr?
As long as we're all speculating, regardless of who carved her face, anyone else think it's odd that it's a "B" instead of an "O."
If she did this to herself, it would be easier to do an "O."
Goodbye. Not commenting on this matter anymore. Hope this girl gets the help she needs and seeks medical attention, which she declined after the attack.
I mean, no evidence, Zach, besides someone's son hanging off a fence in a field somewhere, and someone's daughter, bruised and bleeding, but what of such trivial concerns. What was your last job, grief counsellor? Good lord.
You're being disgusting, Simon.
Palladian, with respect, even if it turns out to be a hoax, it would require her to be so totally mentally disturbed that I think that treating it seriously is still the most rational thing to do. Are we to reserve judgment every time an alternative explanation is technically possible, no matter how farfetched or unlikely? For example, I don't think that if evidence were uncovered that Bush did blow up the world trade center, that that would make my having proceded thusfar the assumption that he didn't irrational.
So is he.
"I don't know, maybe you could beat seven bails out of me, cut on me a little, and..."
You have 7 balls? That's 5 more than you need!
What about Morton Downey Junior? I remember that asinine late-night television show he used to have, where he'd rave about the "pablum pukers" or something like that, but are you trying to tell me he's "famous" for some other achievement than that?
Wonders never do cease, it seems.
I don't get it Althouse. You say you're embarrassed for McCain. If John McCain was associating with former KKK terrorists for a decade up to four years ago you, Ann Althouse, would be screaming bloody murder. You wouldn't be the only one. He would have no role in public life now if information like that was revealed.
Make believe that Ayres and Dohrn and their comrades had the exact same history up to their turning themselves in but instead of communists they were Ku Klux Klanners.
There would have been no rehabilitation, no university jobs, no social cachet in desirable Chicago neighborhoods. Yet their crimes were just as despicable. Not only that their ideology is just as despicable. The leftist cure is a fatal disease for freedom and liberty.
For America.
Yet Ayres and Dohrn get a pass. And so does their buddy Barack.
This is very wierd.
integrity,
Oh, integrity?
Still waiting for how the last 8 years hurt you so bad.
What's that?
You can't come up with anything?
I mean, other than what the rest of the world thinks of us? Is that what gets you going? What Europe thinks of us?
Wait till your chosen boy shows up and screws up bad in the first 6 months.
Will you and your friends be applauding when the government goes after speech that it doesn't like?
Well, will you?
Hope this girl gets the help she needs and seeks medical attention, which she declined after the attack.
She went to the hospital this morning and had an MRI.
I read in the article that the attack occurred outside the range of the bank's video surveillance equipment.
If they had video evidence, this story would have broken big already, one would hope.
The event by itself is nigh meaningless.
I think what's guaranteed is that if the story is true, we'll hear little about it.
If it turns out to be false, however, broad conclusions will be drawn about how the McCain/Palin campaign is inciting lunatics.
Nichevo wrote: "I wouldn't know, Terry, I lack your experience of mutilating women's faces."
You're an amateur then I take it?
I was a forensic pathologist for 17 years and it is reflex to analyze a picture like that of Ms. Dodd.
However, the observations I made could just as easily been made by anyone with some life experience with knife cuts and black eyes.
Why don't you do the same thing I did and download the picture, blow it up a bit and look at the width and depth and texture of the "B" and judge for yourself.
I wish only the best for Ms. Dodd and the worst for her attacker.
The lack of swelling around her eyes may be an indication of something as well depending on how much time elapsed between when she was attacked and when the photo was taken.
True. It does depend on the timing of the photo. I've had a broken nose in an auto accident. The black eyes that she has are what I looked like within a few hours of the event. By the next day however, hoo boy.....rocky racoon eyes and bozo nose.
1. "Blogger seems to have re-set itself to back before yesterday's "new & improved enhancement."" I changed the setting back myself when I saw that the improvement was optional.
2. That Tawana Brawleyish woman? I don't believe her. Prove it, then go national. Otherwise, it's bullshit.
3. "I don't get it Althouse. You say you're embarrassed for McCain. If John McCain was associating with former KKK terrorists for a decade up to four years ago you, Ann Althouse, would be screaming bloody murder. You wouldn't be the only one. He would have no role in public life now if information like that was revealed." Here's the thing. Academia is full of lefties who have extreme opinions. Getting along inside this environment doesn't mean you buy all that stuff. It's too close to the norm to set up a presumption that you should have protested. I would be condemned by the same standard by which you'd like to condemn Obama. Find something particular to him, something he's said or written and it would mean more. Give the man credit for keeping his wits about him, keeping his balance, as he's come into contact with all sorts of people. I respect that.
"Ace spells it out for idiots."
So, does the video camera corroborate the position of the attack?
"Palladian, with respect, even if it turns out to be a hoax, it would require her to be so totally mentally disturbed that I think that treating it seriously is still the most rational thing to do."
This is exactly what my lefty friends said about Tawana Brawley.
"Find something particular to him, something he's said or written and it would mean more"
Yeah, good fucking luck with that. Almost everything he's said or written, if he actually said or wrote anything other than his couple of vanity memoirs, has been disappeared. You, on the other hand, have an extensive bibliography of legal writing, published opinion writing, and years worth of writing on this blog. If you were running for office, we could look at what you've written or said in the past and understand more about you, apart from your associations in academia. With Obama, we don't have that option.
Tonight's word is "mutiliation."
The word for tomorrow is "lynching."
Eleven days to go, America....
What we need is a good ol' fashioned naval battle with pirates in Somalia.
Be good for everyone's morale. Except the pirates.
And I'm not necessarily doubting Ms. Dodd's story. What I'm cautioning against is making political hay out of it before any objective facts or evidence has been sorted out. If it turns out that all or part of her story is falsified, then you come out looking like a complete idiot, especially given the story's uncomfortable racial undertone. And if it turns out that all of her story is true, it still shouldn't be a political issue since the attack was not some official act of the campaign.
"Academia is full of lefties who have extreme opinions."
I think this is why it's not fertile ground for Presidential candidates.
That Obama, along with his other part-time jobs, taught law school for a decade makes him highly unqualified to be POTUS.
I appreciate that he didn't bother to publish useless articles about how compulsory jury service violates the 13th Amendment and how the 19th Amendment is the strongest basis for the constitutional right to abortion.
But teaching law school, even on a part time basis, for so long is indicative of Obama's weakness as a potential POTUS.
It's hard to make out, but perhaps Althouse would care to borrow a thinking cap and come back and tell us what's wrong with it.
I am absolutely positive that she hasn't simply bought the line the MSM has been trying to feed those who don't bother to look into things.
I am absolutely convinced that Althouse knows what she's talking about and is familiar with BHO's long line of very questionable associations, including to domestic terrorists.
I know for a fact that Althouse isn't simply buying the spin from sleazy people like Axelrod.
Ann:
"This is exactly what my lefty friends said about Tawana Brawley."
I had never heard of Tawana Brawley before, but two obvious distinctions jump out of her Wikipedia entry at first read:
1) Brawley's story was full of inconsistencies. What inconsistencies jump out of Todd's story?
2) To the extent that these aren't a subset of (1), Brawley alleged that she had been abducted, attacked and raped, yet there was no evidence of rape, no aftereffects of exposure or the like, and "[s]he had no bruises, contusions, scratches or other injuries." Thus, Brawley's allegations were square at odds with the evidence, whereas Todd's injuries are plainly consistent with her allegations.
These injuries are clearly real, so the only issue is how they got there. To call this a hoax, there has to be some alternative explanation for how the injuries happened - and what is that alternative? It is easy to formulate an alternative explanation for what happened to Brawley, but harder to do so for Todd. Is it really believable, really lkely, that a 21 year old kid is going to allow get themselves beaten and carved on - for John McCain? Does that pass the laugh test? Does McCain strike you as someone who inspires that level of loyalty?
Few things are sadder - but also bolstering - to me than the certain quotes I will have to throw back at every Obama failure and civil rights/liberal power grab.
Get ready Ann.
You're going to be in bendover mode for a long, long time starting in the spring of 2009.
"Is it really believable, really lkely, that a 21 year old kid is going to allow get themselves beaten and carved on - for John McCain? Does that pass the laugh test? Does McCain strike you as someone who inspires that level of loyalty?"
No, but it certainly is believable that a misguided young woman would fake an attack in order to get attention. It has happened many times.
The bottom line with this story is that, true or false, it doesn't matter! Stop wasting your energy on these sorts of trivialities.
"What we need is a good ol' fashioned naval battle with pirates in Somalia.
Be good for everyone's morale. Except the pirates."
Not so fast. The jihadi pirates will die martyrs. Thus, good morale for all!
This is a typical Clintonista dirty trick. Where was Hillary! when this happened? Heh.
[and Go Phils !]
I am too tired to read the theories of all the detectives' s here. I will say this though ...."Clinton Happens!".
Heh.
Given the way Joe the Plumber was treated by the media I would think twice before going public were I were in Ashley Todd's shoes.
I'm sure we will know far more about this young woman than we want or need in the next day or two.
I suppose the phrase "let the process unfold" would fall upon deaf ears here?
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