The comment, an apparent reference to Senator Barack Obama, is particularly striking given documented fears among blacks that Mr. Obama will be assassinated if elected.Do you believe Phil Singer?
Phil Singer, a Clinton spokesman said: We were not aware that this person was going to make those comments and disapprove of them completely. They were totally inappropriate."
Remember the recent incidents of remarks meant to damage Obama that the Clinton campaign disowned:
1. Former Senator Bob Kerrey, endorsing Clinton, said, "It’s probably not something that appeals to him, but I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama." This was widely viewed as an attempt to stir up prejudice based on the false belief that Obama is a Muslim. Kerrey subsequently apologized, saying — oddly — "I am sorry for the insult."
2. William Shaheen — one of the Clinton campaign’s co-chairmen — said that if Obama became the candidate: "It’ll be: 'When was the last time? Did you ever give drugs to anyone? Did you sell them to anyone?' There are so many openings for Republican dirty tricks. It’s hard to overcome."
Here's a sentence from the NYT article about the Shaheen incident: "A Clinton spokesman, Phil Singer, said, 'These comments were not authorized or condoned by the campaign in any way.'"
NOTE TO THE NYT BLOGGERS: Add links! People in my comments are dubious about the "documented fears among blacks." I'm almost sure there is an old NYT article about this. Put a link!
ADDED: And then there is the incident of 2 men yelling "Iron my shirt" at Hillary yesterday. Wasn't that a handy way to remind us of the terrible sexism aimed at Hillary? She got to say "Oh, the remnants of sexism, alive and well." Well, who were those guys? I'm sure their chant was not authorized or condoned by the campaign in any way.
The two young men were quickly booed by the audience and escorted outside by the local police, and after repeatedly being asked, finally said they were protesting the notion of having a woman in the White House.Indeed. Looks can be deceiving.
They declined to elaborate. One of the young men, who said he is a 21-year-old student, was told he looked too nice to have that sort of attitude toward women, and replied, "Looks can be deceiving."
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The charitable thing to do is to take them at face value. They say the campaign neither condoned nor approved of the comments. Fair enough. The campaign just happens to have a whole lot of people involved who think that way.
The damage control team stays seriously on message.
'documented fears among blacks that Mr. Obama will be assassinated if elected '
Wow! That's a new one. I haven't heard that comment from blacks. Actually, I haven't heard a whole lot from the black community about Obama.
Hillary yes! Obama, not much.
And yes, I do know about Oprah endorsing him!
How does the woman, Francine Torge, who introduced Hillary?! with that comment, feel today? Who by the way, is a retired educator.
The question is not so much whether Sen. Obama is Muslim (clearly to most American Christians, he is not), but to what degree he may be perceived, rightly or wrongly, as being Muslim.
"Muslims do not see practice as key, [writes Daniel Pipes.] "For them, that he was born to a line of Muslim males makes him born a Muslim. Further, all children born with an Arabic name based on the H-S-N trilateral root (Hussein, Hassan, and others) can be assumed to be Muslim, so they will understand Obama's full name, Barack Hussein Obama, to proclaim him a born Muslim."
Note that Pipes rightly, I think, also notes that if Muslims perceive Obama to be Muslim, then he is an apostate. And if you plan to vote for Obama because you think that will make hostile elements of the Muslim world like America more, think again.
Here's a NY Observer Turk-on-the-street type story about how people in Turkey regard Obama. It would seem that their perception of his possible Muslimness does not change their attitudes towards US policy.
Ms. Torge has obviously thought things through and her words make perfect sense.
Step One: Obama gets the nomination.
Step Two: He makes Hillary his running mate.
Step Three: They win and he’s assassinated.
Step Four: Hillary becomes President and “passe[s] the civil rights legislation.”
Step Five: Everybody lives happily ever after.
Step Six: Everybody except Obama, that is.
dax said...
"'documented fears among blacks that Mr. Obama will be assassinated if elected 'Wow! That's a new one."
Actually no it isn't a new one. Obama himself discussed the threats in an interview just yesterday on NBC news. Michelle Obama talked about the threats to her and her family on C-span Sunday.
It isn't new and it is real.
hdhouse - Stick with me.
My comment was referencing the black community not comments from Mr. and Mrs. O
I also question what the NYT writer means by "documented fears"? Where does the MSM come up with this stuff? Fears is sufficient - adding documented is over the top and can't be validated.
Syllogism? tears are to gender card as assasination comments are to race card? Just asking. I agree with Dax, however, that the black folks in Memphis thatI live and work with have never discussed that possibility. Of course, that's anecdotal so
Do you believe Phil Singer?
The problem is you can't simply assume that's true, especially since the campaign has been fiddling for several months planting questioners, etcetera.
Do you believe the Clinton campaign is not going over the intro speeches people are doing for her at her appearances?
I don't, sorry.
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"'documented fears among blacks that Mr. Obama will be assassinated if elected '
Wow! That's a new one. I haven't heard that comment from blacks."
That struck me too. Documented? By whom? Documented how?
Whatever, there probably are some black folks that are fearful of that. I just haven't seen any reported anecdotes anywhere, much less anything "documented".
Whatever, there probably are some black folks that are fearful of that. I just haven't seen any reported anecdotes anywhere, much less anything "documented".
Is it just me or does anyone think that there hasn't been much of a groundswell of black support for Obama overall? Considering that he is the first black candidate to have a real bona fide shot at the big boy chair, it seems he's garnering a heckuva lot more enthusiasm from whites.
In a later interview, Hillary said that Martin Luther King, Jr. didn't do anything but give good talks; LBJ was the one who got things done. Commenters on Politico.com went so far as to call her racist. I think this story was on Memeorandum a bunch yesterday.
Is it just me or does anyone think that there hasn't been much of a groundswell of black support for Obama overall?
You'd be right if you hadn't yet checked the recent polling in South Carolina, where Obama is leading Hillary something like 50% to 29%.
The NYT should have put in a link to its own old story -- I think I remember -- about how black people weren't supporting Obama because they thought he'd get assassinated.
Anything to try and derail Obama. This is getting silly. The whole Clinton campaign is carefully orchestrated, right down to what people say when introducing the candidate. Then damage control takes over. OOPS, gee, we're sorry. Let's just move on shall we. See, we are nice and polite.
These people are evil, manipulating, and will do anything, no matter how low, to win. They can always apologize and just, well, move on.
"and just, well, move on."
Except, of course, they never do.
It’s probably not something that appeals to him, but I like the fact that Hillary's man in N.H. was named Arab Raghead Camel Jockey Shaheen.
Regarding Daniel Pipes' characterization of Obama: I subtracted out Pipes' anti-Muslim bias and found nothing left. Please provide a less rabid anti-Muslim source.
Considering that he is the first black candidate to have a real bona fide shot at the big boy chair
Obama presents little for black Americans to identify with. Obama's also the first black candidate to have no slave ancestors. Growing up abroad and in multicultural, multiracial Hawaii meant he didn't really have to face American-style racism till he got to college. Unlike the vast majority of black Americans, he has a white mother. The term "biracial" was coined just for him.
"Obama's also the first black candidate to have no slave ancestors."
You certainly meant no slave ancestors who were enslaved in this country. I would bet that virtually everyone on the planet has a "slave ancestor" somewhere in their pedigree.
At least the "Iron My Shirt" guys didn't try to pretend that they were doing some sort of Ironically-Humorous Artwork/Performance malarkey.
That assassination thing has been around since he began the campaign.
Michelle Obama mentioned it before even starting the campaign that is was an issue she was worried about.
It has also been in stories in the NY Times in the past.
Please provide a less rabid anti-Muslim source.
"Rabid" here means not bowing to Sharia.
Pipes has a remarkable background studying communism, and he knows the thuggery of the Islamofascists. I find him credible. You, not so much.
The 'Iron my shirt' dudes appear to be a bit of (probably apolitical) performance art.
Update: An eagle-eyed tipster notes that Adolfo Gonzales Jr., one of the guys named in the Daily News story, shares a name with an assistant producer of the Toucher and Rich Show in Boston, which seems to specialize in stunts. Another guy on the show’s staff is “Intern Nick.” Would that be Nick Gemelli, the other guy named in the story?
I think it is terribly stupid to shout "iron my shirt" at that poor woman. That's what illegal Mexican maids are for.
Tips for political invective at Hillary Clinton Events 2008 (VRWC)
Don't yell "Remember the Maine" because she already knows that she will only be remembered as Mrs. Norman Maine.
Don't yell "Tippecanoe and Tyler
Too" because only Senator McCain is a veteran of that battle.
Don't yell "I had a dream" because the last politician that did that was shot at be a Stephen King character.
Don't yell suck my dick because that is what interns are for.
Pipes' dad was the communism scholar. I have learned never to pay much attention to a man with an ax to grind. If you cannot provide a less-biased source on Islam, here's what Salim Muwakkil had to say about Pipes's bias when Bush appointed him to the US Institute for Peace:
The latest White House affront to Muslims is the recess appointment of Daniel Pipes to the board of directors of the U.S. Institute of Peace.
...
Pipes is director of the Middle East Forum, a right-wing think tank based in Philadelphia, a prolific author of anti-Islamic screeds and creator of Campus Watch, a Web site that monitors professors who criticize Israel. He has a long paper trail, and perusal of Pipes’ oeuvre reveals two clear positions: He is strongly pro-Israel and avidly anti-Muslim.
His appointment is opposed by a number of Islamic, Christian, Jewish, and interfaith groups, all of which argue that Pipes is better at building barriers than bridges to the Islamic world. A number of editorial boards, including the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post, also have urged the administration to rescind his appointment.
Pipes gained some public infamy in May 1995, when he told USA Today that the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was “just the beginning” of an offensive by Islamic fundamentalists. Many journalists already had learned to be wary of Pipes’ biased analysis of issues concerning the Middle East or Islam.
“Pipes has repeatedly demonstrated hostility toward Arabs and toward Islam as a religion,” says Mitchell Plitnick, co-director of the San Francisco-based Jewish Voice for Peace, one of several Jewish organizations that have mobilized against him. “Of equal concern is that Pipes has often espoused the view that force is the most appropriate solution to the problems in the Middle East and the Muslim world.
bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was “just the beginning” of an offensive by Islamic fundamentalists
And he was right!
Remember 2001? Twin Towers?
San Francisco-based Jewish Voice for Peace
Anti-Israeli terrorist apologists.
“Pipes has repeatedly demonstrated hostility toward Arabs and toward Islam as a religion,”
It warrants hostility, given that Islamofascism is entirely hostile to the rest of the world.
“Of equal concern is that Pipes has often espoused the view that force is the most appropriate solution to the problems in the Middle East and the Muslim world.
And he is correct. The threat of force is the only thing that will work. Pipes is looking awfully good in that paragraph, son.
In 1968 I volunteered to work for Bobby Kennedy, and, after he was killed, after the Democratic Convention/Chicago supression, voted for Nixon. (It was more of a vote against Lyndon, against the futility of the war, than a vote for a flawed candidate.)
I regard Barack as a third-rate Bobby (RFK), as a second-rate Jack (JFK).
I believe that RFK in 1968 was genuine.
bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was “just the beginning” of an offensive by Islamic fundamentalists
And he was right!
Remember 2001? Twin Towers?
I remember Tim McVeigh blowing up the Murrah building. I'm pretty sure he wasn't an Islamofascist, whatever that may be. Pipes showed his partisanship by being so quick and so wrong. I would prefer to hear pronouncements about Islam by someone with less interest in making Muslims look like the bad guy.
I would prefer to hear pronouncements about Islam by someone with less interest in making Muslims look like the bad guy.
You don't have to *make* Muslims look like the bad guys.
making Muslims look like the bad guy
What, by showing the Million Man Rage-Boy march every night in Pakistan, Syria, Palestine, and France?
Seeing the trail of blown up buildings behind them?
Reading their own words?
I remember Tim McVeigh blowing up the Murrah building.
Pay no attention to the Middle Eastern men he was seen with.
an Islamofascist, whatever that may be
Just turn on the TV and hit FOX, CNN, or even MSNBC.
Look for stories about assassination and/or bombings.
Bhutto for example.
"Youths" in Paris burning cars.
Amahdinejad.
That's them.
Wow! That's a new one. I haven't heard that comment from blacks. Actually, I haven't heard a whole lot from the black community about Obama.
Yes, it has been discussed, quite openly, on black blogs. Try the blogs run by the former Steve Gilliard crew. Try Jack and Jill.
pOGO
we have been through this a million times. there is NO SUCH WORD as islamofascist.
NO SUCH WORD. here that prego? NO.
don't use it again.
we have been through this a million times. there is NO SUCH WORD as islamofascist.
That's right Pogo. From here on out, start referring them to Islamic religious nutjobs living in the Koran-belt of the world.
4These comments from politicians prove that there is ignorance every
where. It dosen't matter if you are an authority figure you can still be ignorant. Alot of citizens are skeptical about Obama.
Well if we can survive Bush we can survive anything. Alot of people think that if Obama is elected he'll be assassinated. I believe it's a possibility. All the great presidents were assassinated. And for stupid reasons, they want to be remembered. Okay here's a thought, if your going to assassinate someone, kill the bad presidents, then you will be acknowledged. He is not the only target Hillary is a target as well.
There are men who are totally against a woman being in office.
I'm all for it! Once one woman gets in office, another one will follow and so forth.
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