1. November 22, 2004: "Those religion-oriented law schools." I noted Jerry Falwell's new law school and quoted him saying: "If our graduates wind up in the government, they'll be social and political conservatives. If they wind up as judges, they'll be presiding under the Bible." I was critical of his idea for a law school and said: "What's needed are law schools that expose law students to the full range of professional debate. It doesn't make much sense to counter one law school with another law school: the poor student has to go one place or another!"
2. November 28, 2004: "Jerry Falwell's curtain imagery." Falwell had just appeared on "Meet the Press," and Tim Russert had asked him about what he said 2 days after 9/11: " "I fear... that [September 11th] is only the beginning. ...If, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve ... I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle ... all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say'`you helped this happen.'" Part of Falwell's answer was, "This morning in the shower I prayed for all 15 of our family by name, by need, because I want the curtain of God's provision upon them and protection along the highways and decision-making, God's wisdom." I wrote: "Falwell praying in the shower? I could have gone my whole life without having that picture in my head. But now that he's said it, I have some idea where he gets his imagery. 'God continues to lift the curtain ...' Was that the shower curtain? God as Norman Bates?"
3. May 5, 2005: "Hitchens on the Christian right." I quote Christopher Hitchens quoting Barry Goldwater saying he wants to "kick Jerry Falwell in the ass."
4. November 26, 2006: "'Can Romney endure the media exposure that awaits him? What if his great-great grandfather was a bigamist? And what about that underwear?'" I criticize some people for spreading prejudice against Mormons and quote a news article notes Jerry Falwell had said -- to his credit -- that Mitt Romney's religion was no barrier to the Presidency.
I guess I haven't been too hard on Jerry Falwell in the time this blog has been around. He wasn't that active in the last 3 years, and, as the linked NYT obituary says, "He surprised some critics by becoming more tolerant on gay issues in later years. "
But at his core, he remained through his career precisely what he was at the beginning — a preacher and moralist, a believer in the Bible’s literal truth, with firm beliefs on religious, and social issues rooted in his reading of Scripture that never really changed.R.I.P.
So there was no distinction at all between his view of the political and the spiritual when he wrote in his autobiography: “We are born into a war zone where the forces of God do battle with the forces of evil. Sometimes we get trapped, pinned down in the crossfire. And in the heat of that noisy distracting battle, two voices call out for us to follow. Satan wants to lead us into death. God wants to lead us into life eternal.”
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६३ टिप्पण्या:
Too often used by the media (also true for Pat Robertson) as an authority. He rarely ever spoke for me and many many other "conservative Christians."
Let's see . . .
Falwell formed the Moral Majority and brought diversity - something that we're told is supposed to be "good" - to the national debate, at a time in the 70's and early 80's of the "Fairness Doctrine". A time when millions of hard-working, patriotic American's weren't given a voice in the Main Stream Media World of Walter Cronkite, Don Hewitt's 60 Minutes, Washington Post and New York Times. There was no Limbaugh (or any conservative national radio), no Murdoch-owned
NY Post. No national conservative voice save the Wall Street Journal editorial pages during the Carter years.
Hmmmmm - an underrepresented political viewpoint brought into the mainstream of the political debate.
How is that a bad thing?
Hmmmmm - an underrepresented political viewpoint brought into the mainstream of the political debate. How is that a bad thing?
You've fallen victim to an error of reasoning that left-wingers are often guilty of -- equating "free exchange of ideas is valuable" with "all ideas are valuable".
It is good that Falwell was allowed to speak his mind. But he was a worthless man with harmful ideas, and the world is a better place now that he's finally dead.
Boy is he in for an unpleasant surprise.
I have nothing much against his participating in the debate, but I disagreed with the positions he took. I don't like to see to much mixing of religion and politics, but I completely accept that individual choices about what policy positions to take can come from religious values and religion-based thinking.
That pullout from the NY Times obituary could also easily describe Billy Graham.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that famous case he pursued all the way to the Supreme Court, regarding the Hustler Magazine cartoon. He lost, rightly so, but as I recall he was standing up for his mother's reputation, as well as his own. Good for him.
(I was responding to b.)
Revenant,
You've fallen victim to an error of reasoning that left-wingers are often guilty of -- equating "free exchange of ideas is valuable" with "all ideas are valuable".
No confusion here - I believe that you have me mistaken for Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi:
Pelosi to aggressively pursue reinstatement of Fairness Doctrine
oooops:
Pelosi to aggressively pursue reinstatement of Fairness Doctrine
" I was critical of his idea for a law school and said: "What's needed are law schools that expose law students to the full range of professional debate. It doesn't make much sense to counter one law school with another law school: the poor student has to go one place or another!"
I think Falwell's idea was to counter one lawyer with another, which happens all the time...e.g he'd be training Bryans to counter the Darrows.
As a lifelong atheist I never paid much attention to Falwell, but whenever I happened to see him on a talk show or something he struck me as a fundamentally decent guy, unlike most televengelists, who give me the creeps.
No confusion here - I believe that you have me mistaken for Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi:
You have yourself confused with Nancy Pelosi, I'm afraid. You asked how it could be a bad thing for underrepresented viewpoints to be made mainstream. The answer's obvious to any thinking person, if not to you and Nancy.
Farewell, Falwell.
to be made mainstream
Entering the main stream of debate, dear Revenant, not being "made" mainstream. The value of all ideas are not equal. But to fight for the opportunity to be heard, and not simply dismissed before being fully heard, is a good thing.
Since you are obviously somewhat illiterate, please let me explain that I do not agree with you and Speaker Pelosi and others who seek to restrict the free speech that can be available to others.
Who will be the 8,888,888th visitor to althouse blog? It's a shame you're not passing 6,666,666 as Falwell moves on.
Falwell, to my knowledge (and his credit) was mostly true to his beliefs. For instance, I don't recall him getting caught with prostitutes, male or female -- unlike many evangelicals. I disagreed with just about anything that came out of his mouth, but I don't decide who gets to talk.
F***k off Falwell
As the center was rebuffed by the far left and was smashed toward the right, Falwell started to look pretty good. He was a mighty wall.
I felt his positions went too far in many cases, but the guy was a rock of faith. I salute him.
But to fight for the opportunity to be heard, and not simply dismissed before being fully heard, is a good thing.
Falwell stopped "fighting for the right to be heard" and became a mainstream political figure over a quarter of a century ago, as evidenced by the fact that every major Republican Presidential candidate felt obligated to say nice things about the worthless little waste of sperm.
That Falwell was allowed to remain in the mainstream instead of being shunned alongside the Stalinists, NAMBLA activists and other advocates of diseased and evil thinking speaks poorly for our country.
smiley jack says: "he struck me as a fundamentally decent guy"
get real...the man was a bigoted, racist and homophobic lout.
While Doyle pretty much nailed it with ""Boy is he in for an unpleasant surprise" I'll add my two cents.
So much of what Jerry Falwell espoused as Christianity was un-Christian. His fondness for war (even "culture War"), his fomenting of bigotry, his insistence on using the powers of the state to advance the faith, his rejection of environmental stewardship, his support for polices that comfort the comfortable and afflict the afflicted are all good examples of a public record squarely at odds with the preachings of Jesus Christ.
So I'd feel like a hypocrite to wish him well.
But I'll bet some people loved him, by unfortunate accident of birth or otherwise. I wish them well today.
Here are a few quotes from smiley's "decent guy."
If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)
I sincerely believe that the collective efforts of many secularists during the past generation, resulting in the expulsion from our schools and from the public square, has left us vulnerable.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, after the 700 Club broadcast wherein he had blamed civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.
-- Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!
Jerry FalwellWe're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/jerry_falwell/
I'd like to say something nice about Jerry Falwell ...
Unfortunately I can't think of a single thing. Oh well.
I think Luckyoldson quotes from Falwell enscapulates Falwell's legacy.
He will be remembered as a man of hate and intolerance (I think that was what McCain called him in 2000 when he was being a honest candidate).
Falwell's legacy will be remembered by everything he hated. The list of what he hated is long and the words he used to describe these individuals was harmful and destructive and toxic.
Falwell's "moral majority" was neither, nor was his evil vitriol Christian.
I think Luckyoldson quotes from Falwell enscapulates Falwell's legacy.
I doubt Falwell will have much of a legacy. Who remembers the names of all the Christian pastors of the 1960s and before who explained, on radio and television, why God had ordained that blacks be inferior to whites? Who remembers the names of all the Christian religious leaders who called for the expulsion or extermination of the Jews? Who remembers the church leaders who defended slavery?
Christians have a boundless capacity for only remembering the *good* Christian leaders of the past, and for letting the bad ones fall down the memory hole. Fifty years from now all you'll hear about the church's role in, say, the AIDS crisis is the good work distributing medical supplies in Africa. Mention the "God's punishment" speeches and the anti-condom campaigns and you'll just get a quizzical look and a "oh, those weren't the *real* Christians". Fifty years after that churches will be bragging about how they ordained gay ministers years before we had a gay President.
This is because "good" is equated with "Christian" and vice-versa; when what is "good" changes, cognitive dissonance eliminates the memory that Christians were ever otherwise.
Falwell's "moral majority" was neither, nor was his evil vitriol Christian.
See? Its starting already.
Salon captures the moment:
Jerry Falwell spent a career demonizing others. Upon his death, what else could he expect in return?
Alphaliberal wrote: "So much of what Jerry Falwell espoused as Christianity was un-Christian. His fondness for war (even "culture War"), his fomenting of bigotry, his insistence on using the powers of the state to advance the faith, his rejection of environmental stewardship, his support for polices that comfort the comfortable and afflict the afflicted are all good examples of a public record squarely at odds with the preachings of Jesus Christ."
Well, Jesus was a complicated teacher. His words are not always tame and nice. Fer instance, from Matthew 10:
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
As I said, not so tame, rather edgy when you take the time to read the text.
That quoted, I am not a huge fan of Rev. Falwell's teachings either. While I think he understood the law, I think he skipped over grace. Jesus primarily saved his ire for the corrupt clergy of his day. He spent time with outcasts and the irreputible, because He loved them and came to save them.
I believe that Rev. Falwell's surprise in heaven was a happy one. And I trust he is at peace.
But I agree with you in spots Alpha.
Trey
Well today I saw my baby
And Lord, it made me high
But when I tried to kiss her
Jerry Falwell shot tear gas in my eyes . . .
--“Shot Down Again,” Jason & The Nashville Scorchers (1982)
Hey Alphaliberal, I think part of my post sounded a little snippy in my disagreement with your points. Sorry, that was not my intent, and I did not want that to be the tone of my post.
I was not wanting to infer that you had not read the text of what Jesus said, I was trying to say that what He said is challenging to me, perhaps to all of us. But it read snippy to me, and I wanted to clarify.
Trey
It's a dilemma for a lot of Christians to decide whether or not politics and religion mix -- for many, there is a lot of soul-searching involved, as you must choose a side. I come down on the side of not doing so, "rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." However, a lot, like Falwell, follow their hearts, as well, and see it as compromising to do so. I respect those Christians, as well. So I respected the man for his uncompromising activism, as I'm sure he's done a lot more good than bad for our country, and certainly more good than I ever will. God bless him by his intentions, as I don't think he was judgmental so much as he (as said above) literally interpreted scripture and acted as he believed God wanted him to. Thank God we'll be judged on intentions as well as end results of our actions.
People can wonder if politics and religion should mix or not but politics and faith *has* to.
To expect a person to believe something yet live differently is simply expecting their belief to be nothing more than a facade, a quaint cultural remnant of something that no longer exists.
Asking if it's the proper place of government to rule over some part of our lives is a slightly different question than asking if faith, religion or belief has its proper place in people ruling our government.
The... direction of it matters. Government toward people, or people toward government.
Revenant said:
Christians have a boundless capacity for only remembering the *good* Christian leaders of the past, and for letting the bad ones fall down the memory hole.
I find this to be a general tendency, and that it even applies in regards to the merits/demerits of individuals.
This could be from a spirit of forgiveness. Or perhaps we just say our last words and move on.
May God have mercy on his soul.
Palladian said..."May God have mercy on his soul.
That's a nice thought, but do you think Jerry would say the same about someone who was an athiest...or gay...or not a born again Christian?
Doubtful.
More from the lout:
On feminists: "I listen to feminists and all these radical gals. ... These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men; that's their problem."
On global warming: "I can tell you, our grandchildren will laugh at those who predicted global warming. We'll be in global cooling by then, if the Lord hasn't returned. I don't believe a moment of it. The whole thing is created to destroy America's free enterprise system and our economic stability."
On Bishop Desmond Tutu: "I think he's a phony, period, as far as representing the black people of South Africa."
On Islam: "I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough of the history of his life, written by both Muslims and non-Muslims, that he was a violent man, a man of war."
On Jews: "In my opinion, the Antichrist will be a counterfeit of the true Christ, which means that he will be male and Jewish, since Jesus was male and Jewish."
luckyoldson, I don't care for Falwell but I think that a couple of those horrible statements you listed are entirely reasonable statements. Specifically the one about the ACLU and the one about a Christ centered men's movement.
I'm not saying that he didn't say a whole lot he shouldn't have. My own pastor, *very* conservative - from the denomonation that refused to participate in post 9-11 prayers with non-Christian religious leaders, denounced him thoroughly from the pulpit for presuming to speak for God about 9-11 being punishment from God. That would have required a special revelation.
But as a list of horrors your list might show just why he really pissed people off so badly but just because some people are offended doesn't really mean much.
And that last list is almost all correct. Rude, but correct.
(Some) feminists hate men. I've met them. Sexist to the core. Everything bad in the world is because of men.
(Many) people believe that human caused global warming is a crock and there is likely reason to think the trend will shift again in the not so far future.
I'm sure he's not the first I've heard criticize Tutu. Though I'll admit it's a bit like slandering Mother Teresa.
Not only was Muhammad a "terrorist" (advocating war and waging it) but he married a nine year old. Using the term "terrorist" is weighted but he's absolutely correct that Muslim and non-Muslim Historians agree with his violent nature.
And he may be wrong that the Antichrist will be male and Jewish, but it's a logical argument. If the Savior is male and Jewish...
This is the awfulness you come up with?
Not that I meant that as a challenge to come up with horrible quotes it's just that a whole lot of it isn't worth getting panties in a wad over.
"That's a nice thought, but do you think Jerry would say the same about someone who was an athiest...or gay...or not a born again Christian?"
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?"
Some words that Falwell, many Christians, and Althouse's vituperative lefty commenters should (or should have, in Falwell's case) taken to heart.
Palladian,
As i said before, it's nice of you to defend Falwell, but it has nothing to do with him being a nasty, hateful person who didn't afford others the same kindness.
Thus, the "vituperative lefty commenters," as you call myself and others.
*Oh, what's with the silly name calling? Don't you adhere to the..."let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"...aspect of discourse?
Farewell, Falwell.
...err that should be:
"So, farewell Falwell..."
See 'Private Eye' passim:
"So, farewell Falwell.
Keith's Mum says you were
The man who put his Winky into Tinky
For the Glory of the Lord,
And also cured bunions
Hallelujah."
by E.J. Thribb (17 1/2)
For a family and loved ones, a death is always a sad thing and worthy of respect by all surviving.
The rest of him...well I'm not thrilled to have lived even remotely under his influence.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/foulframe.htm
"Wow. Kind of makes me wish I knew all about Falwell, so I could hate him, too."
-- Bissage (attributed: source unknown)
Nothing like the death of a controversial person to bring outthe best in people.
There will be eight more clever clowns willing to step in and be the voice of "religion" to those weak-minded and uneducated boobs known as Fundamentalist Christians. Nobody has ever gone broke underestimating the naivity of the American people. If religion is the opiate of the masses, then every dealer in the USA just got a promotion.
Some really interesting quotes have been posted, no doubt accurate, that really curl my toenails. He really had an obnoxious way of saying things. Even when he was technically accurate, it is difficult to agree because of the rude and ugly phrasing.
But the man certainly spoke his mind! I REALLY appreciate that in the quotes. You know where old Jerry stood. I find that part refreshing. And he also spoke to the meat of the matter rather than engaging in spurious insults. His insults were directed right at the center of what he found objectionable.
Bottom line, he was better at speaking judgment than love.
Trey
"...weak-minded and uneducated boobs known as Fundamentalist Christians."
Stereotype much? profile much? Know a lot of those folks?
I will always remember Jerry Falwell as the guy who said with a straight face that... "dinosaurs were on the Ark".
"I don't care for Falwell but I think that a couple of those horrible statements you listed are entirely reasonable statements. Specifically the one about the ACLU and the one about a Christ centered men's movement."
Synova, I'm not sure which ACLU quote you are referring to, that the ACLU is to blame for 9/11 or that the ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi Party is to Jews. But the fact that you think either of those is reasonable suggests you have been subject to some serious brainwashing about what the ACLU does
"F***k off Falwell"
"That Falwell was allowed to remain in the mainstream instead of being shunned alongside the Stalinists, NAMBLA activists and other advocates of diseased and evil thinking speaks poorly for our country."
"the man was a bigoted, racist and homophobic lout"
"I'd like to say something nice about Jerry Falwell ...
Unfortunately I can't think of a single thing. Oh well."
"He will be remembered as a man of hate and intolerance "
"weak-minded and uneducated boobs known as Fundamentalist Christians."
Well.
I'm certainly glad y'all are soooooo much less hateful than he supposedly was. Yes, you are all definitely his betters.
anthony,
thanks, but it's not hard being less hateful than jerry.
hateful people leave hateful memories.
if, in your case, you feel the man was good and deserves to be honored...that's up to you.
maybe you could send flowers...but make sure the florist isn't gay...or not a born again christian...jerry wouldn't like that.
Roger said..."Nothing like the death of a controversiaity person to bring outthe best in people."
jerry was far more than "controversial."
he was a bigoted, racist homophobic hate monger, using fundamental christianity as if he were some kind of messenger of god.
*why not tell us what was so "good" about jerry...
synova,
you're actually going to try to mount a defense of jerry falwell??
gfl.
Lucky: you are indeed a clueless fuckwit--and a person whose soul is blacker than Falwells--I mounted no defense of Falwell--I am not a christian or even a theist--you jumped to a lot of conclusions. Go fuck yourself you idiot.
Guess I might have brainwashed myself about the ACLU. No doubt reading their website helped.
Yeah, I know they defend "civil liberties," although these liberties are generally those supported by a certain wing of the electorate...and this includes some liberties that are not even ratified via court or statute.
Other civil liberties should apparently not even be seen, let alone heard. In a way, the ACLU pursues what I would call negative civil liberties -- or the right not to see someone else practicing their liberties.
Throw in the communist origins of the group and that they earn millions by suing governmental bodies (I'm against this on principle, across the board), and yeah, I'm skeptical about this organization.
But take it up with Nat Hentoff. Maybe he's also brainwashed and nutty.
I don't claim that the ACLU is beyond criticism. They take controversial stands, some good, some bad, always testing the legal system. My beef with Falwell and Synova isn't that they should support the ACLU. My beef is with the claim that the ACLU is to blame for 9/11 or that the ACLU persecutes Christians like the Nazis persecute Jews. That is not a reasonable reaction to even the most controversial acts of the ACLU. Its simply absurd and if you believe that, then I think there's something wrong with your reasoning skills.
I'm certainly glad y'all are soooooo much less hateful than he supposedly was. Yes, you are all definitely his betters.
Yes, I certainly am.
Comparing *anything* to Nazis and Jews brings up the problem of degree. The feeling that the ACLU had or has an anti-Christian agenda isn't an outrageous opinion to hold.
Lucky is getting his panties in a twist because I'm "defending" Falwell. Over global warming? Really?
I bet the man occasionally ate balanced meals, too. Shall I be forced to rail against healthy eating lest I be seen to defend Falwell?
For some people it's about *feeling* the proper emotions. Sorry I can't comply.
Joe,
Upon reflecting (or perhaps more precisely, upon rereading), you're right. And thanks for being charitable with my conclusion-jumping.
Someone wrote: "There will be eight more clever clowns willing to step in and be the voice of "religion" to those weak-minded and uneducated boobs known as Fundamentalist Christians."
For the record, I am an Evangelical, not a Fundamentalist Christian. Fundamentalists believe that the Bible is a literal document from cover to cover. 6 days meant 6 days in the creation story. Evangelicals believe in the Bible as a true, but occasionally figurative book. Resurection of Christ, literal. 6 days to creation, I wasn't there, but I can accept that as literal or figurative. I mean, God is God, the supreme being of the universe. He is not like you and I. But I digress.
I have never been called weak minded or uneducated by anyone that knew me. And if someone who does not know me calls me that, perhaps it says more about them than me.
Trey
J:
The ACLU defends the constitution.
Period.
Read more...talk less.
roger,
thanks, i appreciate the christian attitude towards my opinion. it says quite a bit about religious sorts such as yourself.
falwell was an asshole and history will bear it out...
and...based on your comments, so are you.
Lucky, right-o. It defends some parts of the constitution, for the parties it wants to defend or litigate on behalf of.
It routinely sucks cash out of our governments and school districts in doing so. How noble.
And you might want to read Roger's post carefully before offering advice on cognitive processes.
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