Althouse: Everyone is talking...

१० एप्रिल, २००७

Everyone is talking...

... about Don Imus.

९८ टिप्पण्या:

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Except you, apparently.; १०/४/०७, ७:४६ AM
Ann Althouse म्हणाले...: Good call!; १०/४/०७, ७:५२ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: Shock jock says shocking things. How unusual.; १०/४/०७, ७:५४ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Shock jock says shocking things. How unusual.

But Imus is more than a "Shock jock". He regularly has high profile journalists and politicians on his show. And the lack of condemnation of his remarks by some in the mainstream media is just disgusting.; १०/४/०७, ८:१० AM
b. j. edwards म्हणाले...: First Imus, now Kevin Barrett; १०/४/०७, ८:१५ AM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: He has apologized. He has proactively attempted to apologize to the parties concerned and, incidently, to a number of "commentators" who are exploiting this for thier own good....and who, incidently, to a man and woman, live in glass houses.

Imus will survive because he is dealing with this correctly and, because the reason he has the guests he does is that he has a long history of fairness and letting people speak their minds, not him baiting and proding the "wanted answer".

Further, in no small way, he has been a virtual saint to kids, not only with cancer, but with just about any other childhood disease or affliction. He puts his money where is mouth is.

Now in the grand scheme of things, he made a horrible mistake and a terrible mistake in judgment. He clearly did a stupid thing. Weigh it in terms of good and momentary evil and for heaven's sake, MOVE ON.

I will continue to like and support him both as someone who knows him, someone who sends advertising clients to him, and someone who will do both in the future.; १०/४/०७, ८:१७ AM
Roger J. म्हणाले...: Whoa: It's always scary when I find myself in full agreement with HD. As an aside, just how many kids does the Rev Al support on HIS ranch?; १०/४/०७, ८:२५ AM
Sloanasaurus म्हणाले...: Apologize and move on.

Sharpton should also apologize.; १०/४/०७, ८:२६ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: freder: Why should the mainstream media condemn free speech? What kind of country do you want to live in?

I think the Rutgers BBall team missed a great opportunity for publicity here. They should all converge on Imus' show and fix his hair. Show a little ingenuity and humor. Break out of the Victim Mode that Imus' attackers seem to want to place them in. Oh Pity those poor stupid BBall players! THE MAN is being mean to them!; १०/४/०७, ८:३१ AM
Laura Reynolds म्हणाले...: ब्लॉग प्रशासकाने ही टिप्पण्णी हटविली आहे.; १०/४/०७, ८:३१ AM
Gahrie म्हणाले...: I'm still waiting for Murphy, Chapelle and the Wayans to get slammed for wearing whiteface.

Ted Danson anyone?; १०/४/०७, ८:३१ AM
Hazy Dave म्हणाले...: "...the lack of condemnation of his remarks by some in the mainstream media is just disgusting."

Seriously? Which people are these "some" whose job it is to condemn? Is it okay to call him an infidel Zionist cowboy in such condemnation (whether that epithet is mostly true or not)?; १०/४/०७, ८:३९ AM
Fritz म्हणाले...: Someone please fill me in. For decades Imus and Bernard have made fun of African American Hip Hop culture. His comments, while crude, don't rise to the level of overt racism. The extrapolation that all young black women were attacked is a stretch.; १०/४/०७, ९:०६ AM
An Edjamikated Redneck म्हणाले...: Follow the money.

Before today, when was the last time Imus, Jackson or Sharpton were on the radar?

Imus gets a two week vacation and free publicity; Jackson and Sharpton get to promote themselves (what they seem to do best) and the world now realizes that Rutgers is a real University, with a women's basketball team, not just the fictional alma mater of Mr. McGoo.

Everybody wins.; १०/४/०७, ९:१७ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: His comments, while crude, don't rise to the level of overt racism.

In what world is calling accomplished scholar athletes "nappy headed hos" and "jigaboos" not overt racism (not to mention misogynistic).

Now in the grand scheme of things, he made a horrible mistake and a terrible mistake in judgment.

And HD, I am really surprised by you. This wasn't a mistake. He pulls this kind of shit all the time. This incident was just particularly egregious.

Why should the mainstream media condemn free speech? What kind of country do you want to live in?

Gee Sloan, why should you ever criticize anything I ever say on this site. What kind of stupid question is that?; १०/४/०७, ९:१८ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Is it okay to call him an infidel Zionist cowboy in such condemnation

Actually he has shown himself to be pretty anti-semitic too.; १०/४/०७, ९:२१ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Oh yeah, and tell me again how uncivil the left is.; १०/४/०७, ९:२३ AM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: I never cared much for Imus myself and think his comments were over the top. That said, having to get lectured on racial sensitivity by a racial demagouge like Al Sharpton is beyond hypocrisy.

Also, I find it interesting that the Reverend Sharpton somehow fails to grasp the Pentecostal Christian concept of forgiveness and still insists that Imus be fired despite his apology.

Both of them are a joke.; १०/४/०७, ९:२७ AM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: sorry freder, we part ways on this one:

he didn't use the term jigaboos.

he doesn't "pull this shit" all the time...but he does go after everyone evenly and is usually careful about things like this. but it is A COMEDY SHOW and very very funny and highly regarded for a lot of creativity and guest comment. It isn't MEET THE PRESS.

I think the issues are context and will. Did he mean to personally insult these women? very doubtful. He blundered and blundered badly and has just about done everything one can do except fall on a sword to say he is sorry. Was he PURPOSEFULLY meanspirited? NO. He isn't a Rush or Sean or Savage or for that matter an Al Sharpton playing to his base.; १०/४/०७, ९:२७ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: Gee Sloan, why should you ever criticize anything I ever say on this site. What kind of stupid question is that?

One that sloan didn't ask. I did.; १०/४/०७, ९:२८ AM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: and Imus isn't a shock jock. Oppie and Anthony are ShockJocks. Howard Stern is a Shock Jock. Savage is a shockjock. Good heavens, Ann Coulter if she has a radio show would be a shockjock.

If you can't see the "cut above" that is Imus, take a look at his audience and take a look at his advertisers...; १०/४/०७, ९:२९ AM
George M. Spencer म्हणाले...: Let's see....about 3 weeks ago some black actor used the 'f-----t' word. Then Ann Coulter used that word. Then Chris Rock called the President a 'retard.' Then....

I don't know. I can't keep up.

Went hiking in the mountains. Wonderful. No news.

Two days ago, Easter Sunday, visiting relatives. After church, kids in basement playing XBox...

Guitar Hero 2.

(This is a game in which you play a guitar-toy to score points as the real song plays.)

The song?

Black Sabbath's "War Pigs."

"Satan, laughing, spreads his wings/
All right now!"

The visuals? Buncha animated meatheads on stage with a horny demon lightshow behind them.

Microsoft, some Asian multinationals making some bucks. No big deal....just millions of lil' kids playin' a game before an egg hunt.; १०/४/०७, ९:३४ AM
worldturnedupsidedown म्हणाले...: We are infantalizing Black Americans. They somehow cannot survive rude comments? That is soft bigotry. Substitute German, Itailian, or redneck approbrium and its a non issue. Not right man.; १०/४/०७, ९:४३ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: he didn't use the term jigaboos.

Go back and listen to the tape again. Somebody most certainly did. I can't distinguish if it was him or someone else in the studio, but they were all laughing about it like a bunch of eighth graders in a locker room.

Did he mean to personally insult these women?

I have no idea what else could have been meant by what was said. There was no other purpose but to ridicule and insult.; १०/४/०७, ९:४७ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: From some of the routines of black comics I have heard, Imus' remarks were pretty tame--I am assuming that the big unstated issue here is that some non-black personality appropriated words that, by some unstated convention, can only be used by hip hop culture blacks?

Well no, the forum and the context are the issues. And for all of you condemning Sharpton and Jackson, they also are vocal critics of hip hop and rap culture and some of the lyrics and language used in that sub-culture.; १०/४/०७, ९:५१ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: If you can't see the "cut above" that is Imus, take a look at his audience and take a look at his advertisers

Well then, that makes his behavior that much more unacceptable.; १०/४/०७, ९:५३ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: One that sloan didn't ask.

Then I apologized to Sloan. You usually don't posit such painfully stupid questions.; १०/४/०७, ९:५५ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: I didnt notice any outrage when Imus referred to the Knicks as a bunch of chest thumpin pimps.

That, if true, hardly supports HD's contention that this was an isolated, uncharacteristic, incident.; १०/४/०७, १०:१३ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Isn't he a gem, MM?

Oh, come on. Free speech doesn't mean that anyone can say anything over the public airwaves that they want and nobody should ever condemn them for it. To say that it is acceptable for Howard Fineman to go on his show and basically say "you just can't say things like that anymore" and leave it at that is ridiculous.; १०/४/०७, १०:१७ AM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: And for all of you condemning Sharpton and Jackson, they also are vocal critics of hip hop and rap culture and some of the lyrics and language used in that sub-culture.

Big deal which is more than Sharpton is making of Imus than Puff Daddy or Chris Rock.

Imus should apologize, directly to the Rutger's team and not have to prostate himself before a racial demagouge like Sharpton. The fact that the media give Reverend Sharpton any credibility at all in light of Freddie's Fashion Mart debacle and the Tawana Brawley hoax is laughable. Considering that he has never apologized or admitted his cuplability in either of those affairs.

May as well get a lecture in anti-Semitism from Mahmoud Ahmadenijad.; १०/४/०७, १०:१७ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: You usually don't posit such painfully stupid questions.

You would rather insult than answer a simple question? Why do you want to restrict free speech? Do you think the Rutgers Basketball team members are victims of Imus' remarks?

It will be interesting to hear what the Rutgers team has to say later today.; १०/४/०७, १०:२२ AM
Galvanized म्हणाले...: What Imus said was clearly wrong, deplorable. But to be quite honest, it's nothing that other races don't say between themselves, and that is deemed acceptable by society. Why are these same types of comments acceptable when they are black-on-black? What society is experiencing is verbal segregation, where races can only insult within their own circles. It's a new form of racism, reverse discrimination. This needs to be addressed. If our society is ever to realize that all men are equal, then all of the same standards must apply. (In my opinion, obscene and profane language should always be avoided, but the free speech argument will always be with us).; १०/४/०७, १०:२६ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: a little bit ago Ann answered a question about why trademarked Dave was still around by saying he was the site jester and fool.

Isn't this Imus' role as well, for the chattering classes? He's not a politician nor anyone with actual authority. He's a strange looking man who says outrageous things in order to provoke. He also has a national radio show giving a stamp to his national jester role. Most of the time outrageous things are okay, but there are some issues, a very, very small number, which seem to be off limits.

Is there place in society now for a classical fool? Is the outrage a sign he's actually playing his role right?; १०/४/०७, १०:३९ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: I was commenting on you calling MM "painfully stupid" The only difference between you and Imus is that he has a radio show.

I was calling his question "painfully stupid", not him. Usually MM is quite cogent. That's why I assumed Sloan posited the question. I wouldn't hesitate to call Sloan painfully stupid--which is not racist or sexist. It would only be that if I impugned whatever ethnic group the mentally deficient Napoleon Dynamite lookalike belongs to.; १०/४/०७, १०:४० AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Why do you want to restrict free speech?

Of course I don't want to restrict free speech. Where did I say I did? But our mainstream media has a duty to condemn racist, sexist and downright offensive speech.

And of course this is not a question of "free speech" anyway. This man is using an extremely valuable piece of real estate that has been entrusted to the broadcast networks, practically for free. In exchange for this the broadcasters are supposed to be broadcasting in the public interest. If their shows do not meet even minimal standards of decorum then they should find another outlet. If Janet Jackson's boob is so shocking to warrant a $3.5 million fine, or Bono saying "Fuck" a million, then "jigaboo" and "nappy headed hos" should be beyond the pale.; १०/४/०७, १०:५३ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: I am responding here only to point out that I am so glad Ann Althouse decided, rightly, to ignore this silly thing.

For a constitutional law professor, she sure doesn't seem very interested in discussing issues that touch on constitutional rights. She would much rather discuss American Idol or how mean phantom leftwing bloggers are to her.; १०/४/०७, ११:०४ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: You are wrong, Fred. No such duty.

I guess that's where you and I differ about the role of media in society. I see it as more than a passive provider of information.; १०/४/०७, ११:०७ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Yeah, right.

Then you obviously can't read:

"What kind of stupid question is that?"

"You usually don't posit such painfully stupid questions."; १०/४/०७, ११:१२ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: freder, my apologies. I should have asked you why you want to control speech, not restrict it.

Yes, I think this nation would be much more healthy if we could say only State-Mandated things. I have run this comment by the Think. Respect. Committee here at the UW and they've approved it! I can now be certain that no one's feelings will be hurt. And I feel so much better!; १०/४/०७, ११:१४ AM
Beth म्हणाले...: I agree with Freder's comment of 9:18. In what world is "nappy-headed hos" and "jigaboos" (yes, it's on th tape) not racist? hd, I'm guessing you're sticking by Imus because you know him, but jeez, it's not a stumble or whoopsie kind of thing to have that crap come out of his mouth. It came out of his mouth because it lives in his head. He's an asshole, pure and simple, and his "apologies" are weak.

You're right that isn't purely a shock jock, but I'm wondering what politicians and pundits will want to continue appearing on his show after this.; १०/४/०७, ११:२० AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: I should have asked you why you want to control speech, not restrict it.

You seem to miss the point that Imus is using the public airwaves, which carry with them some responsibility. Regardless, why is it a suppression of free speech to say people should be condemned for saying patently offensive things?

You seem to be arguing that anyone who says that Imus is a racist asshole who shouldn't be cluttering the public airwaves is an assault on free speech. How on earth is that a defensible position. Certainly if he has the right to call basketball players "nappy headed hos" and "jigaboos" on the public airwaves then others have the right to use the same airwaves to say he shouldn't be using those publicly owned airwaves to say such things.; १०/४/०७, ११:२१ AM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: You thought it was Sloan and you meant to call him stupid.

No, I meant the question in this instance. You're right though, I do think Sloan is stupid, but if I call him stupid, I will do that outright. That is why I thought he had asked the question, as he had posted immediately above MM. I expect better from MM.; १०/४/०७, ११:३६ AM
Galvanized म्हणाले...: Seven Machos said...
our mainstream media has a duty to condemn racist, sexist and downright offensive speech

This just caught my eye. Whence comes the duty? What happens if the mainstream media shirks the duty?

If society fails itself.

Society, through its media, should condemn downright offensive speech categorically and unilaterally. The law will never be able to enforce it, but society CAN condemn it. But it must be on all, within all groups, with no intra-acceptability while socially censuring it between groups. We will never have a fair society until this is true.; १०/४/०७, ११:४३ AM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: Freder.... try and get a grip on reality..

1. first you hurl out the jigaboo then take it back as all and i mean ALL the transcripts don't show it but it pops up again as if it were fact. DON'T DO THAT.

2. Imus is on MSNBC and syndicated over radio. Cable doesn't fall under federal control as it ISN'T BROADCAST. Radio does but it hardly rises to threshold of the 7 deadly words. Trust me, there is far far far far worse on a regular basis on radio. FAR WORSE. get a grip.

I'm not defending on what was said but right now it is a Come to Jesus moment between Imus and the Rutgers team. How they resolve it is how they resolve it.

Mainstream media can comment on the situation until the cows come home but, as is repeatedly stated here, comment on all of it or touch none of it.; १०/४/०७, ११:४८ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: Regardless, why is it a suppression of free speech to say people should be condemned for saying patently offensive things?

Because no one listens to those tedious proclamations?

The only people who matter in this are the Rutgers team. I note that they are insulted and angry that their achievements on the court are being ignored, and they are going to talk to Imus in person. I hope it's broadcast, and I hope Imus is very uncomfortable. That is the right result from this. Calls from others is just positioning to make the tedious point. You cannot mandate objectionable speech out of existence. Ridiculing the utterers is much more powerful, and that's not what's happening. Again, I hope the BBall players either do his hair, or challenge him to a little one-on-one on the court. Please don't play the victim: take control of the airwaves and beat Imus at his own game.; १०/४/०७, ११:५० AM
Joaquin म्हणाले...: I find this entire incident very amusing.
Imus has been a shock-jock, but lately he's taken the liberal 'highroad' with his guests and his positions. Maybe it's his age.
Imus has been the anti-Stern and a media darling for quite a while. 3 hours on MSNBC? Come on!
Many times I've heard Imus, on his show, cajole with Al Sharpton and Jessee Jackson and I always wondered why he would give those two blatantly racist piranhas a national audience and legitimacy.
Now Mr. Imus is in big doodoo because he's a white guy that made a comment that the easily bruised find offensive. A comment that pales with anything found in the 'Black' comedy circuit or top 20 rap-hip-hop CDs. A comment that I'm sure has been delivered many many times in the Rutgers Ladies Basketball Lockeroom.
Mr. Imus in now in the waters infested by the pirahnas he helped 'raise'
Have a nice swim, Don.; १०/४/०७, १२:११ PM
Mortimer Brezny म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १०/४/०७, १२:१२ PM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: 1. first you hurl out the jigaboo then take it back as all and i mean ALL the transcripts don't show it but it pops up again as if it were fact. DON'T DO THAT.

I never took it back. Frankly, I don't care if it is in any of the transcripts or not (if it isn't, that is just evidence of the MSM covering for him). It is most certainly on the tape. Listen to the tape and it is clearly stated. How it could fail to make the transcripts is beyond me.; १०/४/०७, १२:२४ PM
Mortimer Brezny म्हणाले...: Whatever. Ok, here goes:

Obligatory attack on Al Sharpton:
For a black civil rights leader who "challenges" the white power structure and its white-normativity it is awfully ironic that he straightens his hair. It could be said that Barack Obama has done more for civil rights in America than Al Sharpton simply by running for President with his real hair. Not to mention a black man so ashamed of his 'fro that he sports a conk is in no position to berate others for disliking "nappy" hair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conk

Obligatory defense of Imus:
What the guy said just isn't racist, or repugnant, or any of the other nonsense it is being called.

When I first heard about this "controversy" I thought one of the teams was white and rich and the other black and poor. In other words, I thought Imus was saying "black women are ugly, loose, and low-class". That's the impression you get if you listen to Al Sharpton's show.

But if you watch a clip of the basketball game, both teams are predominantly black, but one team is comprised of straight-haired Southern belles and the other more Afrocentric, tatted-up urban types from New Jersey. The distinction is right there on screen. It looks like the AKAs are playing the Zetas. It does in fact look similar to the Jigaboos v. the Wannabees dance scene from Spike Lee's School Daze. And if you go to a historically black university, you will see the same skin color and good hair politics played out the way they were a psychological dimension of that game. All Imus did was point it out and make fun of it.

Did he do so in a particularly obnoxious way? Sure. But it's rather clear that he didn't actually mean the particular players were whores: "'ho" is street-slang for "woman" in certain neighborhoods and Imus was implying that Rutgers looked more urban. Rutgers did look more urban. Rutgers is more urban than Tennessee.

As for the nappy-headed part; listen, those girls had some gnarled-up Afrocentric do's. I do not doubt that many black viewers watching the game at home made jokes about them being nappy-headed. I just don't see how the comments are racist.

Imus shouldn't have called them hos, but if he had called them "nappy-headed roughnecks" I suspect he'd still be getting raked over the coals. Apparently, Al Sharpton has confused Don Imus for someone who lied about firing a U.S. attorney for political reasons.; १०/४/०७, १२:२४ PM
Ann Althouse म्हणाले...: Freder: "For a constitutional law professor, she sure doesn't seem very interested in discussing issues that touch on constitutional rights."

Uh, why don't you click on the labels to this post and discover how pathetically wrong you are?; १०/४/०७, १२:२६ PM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Fred -- Just so you know, no one would be particularly sad if you were to stop posting here.

Yeah well, somebody has to be the turd in the punchbowl.; १०/४/०७, १२:२६ PM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Uh, why don't you click on the labels to this post and discover how pathetically wrong you are?

Saying "Everyone is talking" about this and then just walking away is hardly commenting on it.

And I took your advice and compared posts labeled Free Speech (9) with American Idol (20) and Anti-Althousnia (14). You really should check these things before you call me "pathetically wrong".; १०/४/०७, १२:३७ PM
Galvanized म्हणाले...: Seven Machos said...
Gee, Galvanized. It's so tragic that everyone isn't condemning what Imus said.

No, not a tragedy. What I am saying is that unless all people (all races/groups insulting even between themselves) who make these types of statements are reprimanded, then we won't have a truly fair society where all are equal. Everyone knows that this is just a hot button with the recent stories on this same topic. If Imus and Richards need to apologize and be pardoned, then so do a lot of minorities and groups that use these terms amongst themselves and then turn around and demand respect from outside. That's discrimination in itself and equally reprehensive. Sorry if I didn't articulate that well enough before.; १०/४/०७, १२:३८ PM
Sloanasaurus म्हणाले...: There have been various people in the media condemning the hip hop artists for calling women ho's for sometime now. Bill O'reilly is the first one that comes to mind. It's part of his culture war that the Left despises so much.

Why now does Imus get all the attention.

Is there a double standard?; १०/४/०७, १२:३८ PM
Galvanized म्हणाले...: er...reprehensible, not reprehensive. Sorry; १०/४/०७, १२:३९ PM
Mortimer Brezny म्हणाले...: Whoa. I do NOT think the Imus comments and Richards comments are equivalent. That's crazy-talk.; १०/४/०७, १२:४० PM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: I'm going where the sun keeps shining through the pouring rain

Going where the weather suits my clothes; १०/४/०७, १:०० PM
Sloanasaurus म्हणाले...: If Imus and Richards need to apologize and be pardoned, then so do a lot of minorities and groups that use these terms amongst themselves and then turn around and demand respect from outside.

Here is one take on it (not necessarily my take).

This kind of demand for double standards is part of the victim culture: That White Western male culture (Don Imus) owes reperations to all others. Here is the logic. Imus' statements requires an apology, whereas similar statements by an "oppressed" individual do not require an apology because the oppressed individual cannot logically be offensive since they are already opppressed. As such, african american hip hop artists are free to call women ho's while Imus is not.

The crime committed by Imus is not the offensive remark, it is the centuries of perceived dominace that white western male culture has had over others.

I throw this out for discussion only...; १०/४/०७, १:०२ PM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Start your own blog, you miserable twit. You certainly seem to have the necessary free time.

Why don't you start your own blog so you can ban all the miserable twits like me?; १०/४/०७, १:०४ PM
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...: Why does it bother you that somebody blogs about certain things and not about other things?

And apparently I touched a nerve with Ann. She obviously felt the need to defend herself as a blogger who tackles serious issues.; १०/४/०७, १:०७ PM
Galvanized म्हणाले...: I agree with you on that, Sloan... But the practice of double standards must be stopped by both sides before progress can be made, or else it will always be tit for tat. There is no reparation that could possibly be proposed that could correct history and its repercussions to present.

It's OK, though...we'll eventually take on a global face (though society will be economically polarized. But that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.); १०/४/०७, १:०९ PM
Sloanasaurus म्हणाले...: They should replace Imus with Jason Lewis, a local Minneapolis radio host. Lewis is one of the best personalities I have ever heard on radio, and he is not one to use insensitive languague.

Here is hoping...; १०/४/०७, १:२० PM
TMink म्हणाले...: Hdhouse, thanks for your thoughtful post at 8:17, and then those that follow. They were substantive and made me think. I like that a lot.

Wolrdturned wrote: "We are infantalizing Black Americans."

Agreed, well, people are certainly TRYING to. Some are doing it because they crave power, some because they are deluded. But it happens, and God help and support the people that point it out, because they will need the support.

I think Imus went on Sharpton's show to face the accuser on his own turf. That was impressive, at elast the bits of the interview I heard. Sharpton refused to go on Imus, not surprising.

I also agree that Michael Savage and Ann Coulter are political shock jocks. Which immediately makes me think of Cindy Sheehan.

Trey; १०/४/०७, १:२२ PM
mtrobertsattorney म्हणाले...: Freder: "I do think Sloan is stupid."

Be careful Freder, Sloan might be a member of a minority. You don't want to be accused of violating one of liberalism's most sacred commandments.; १०/४/०७, १:२७ PM
lee david म्हणाले...: Exhibit A: The stupid white man Imus, trying to prove his street cred by using the language of the ghetto.; १०/४/०७, १:४९ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: As such, african american hip hop artists are free to call women ho's while Imus is not.

Well it goes further than that actually. Think about how much the ‘urban vernacular’ is bombarded to us on a daily basis and then somehow people are shocked when someone other than a black person uses it. I think someone else mentioned it but we laughed our butts off when Eddie Murphy did his “How to be a Ho” shtick on SNL whereas now, it’s a term used constantly in rap music which pretty much dominates the airwaves. I mean does anyone really think that people can inundated with terms like ‘ho’s’ ‘Biatches’, muthafu***ers’ on a daily basis and not get a little desensitized, particularly when those seemingly offended by the terms are the biggest users of them? Anyone remember Russell Simmons Def Comedy Jam? Hell I was offended and I’m as white as rice yet nothing but the sound of crickets chirping from the Sharpton/Jackson camp as to how degrading that show was to the black community.; १०/४/०७, १:५३ PM
Pete the Streak म्हणाले...: Freder, about himself: "Yeah well, somebody has to be the turd in the punchbowl."

Wow. BEST self description EVER.; १०/४/०७, २:०१ PM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: Before this morphs into more than it is or should be, let's not forget that Imus, in spite of this transgression:

1. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome - has raised tens of millions for research and support

2. Hackensack Medical Center - pediatrics..MILLIONS

3. Imus Ranch for Kids with Cancer...millions, built the thing, guarantees its economic viability, has Imus Ranch Foods and gives ALL the profits to the ranch

4. Fallen Heroes fund for the Texas rehab center for vets.

5. He and his wife and the Wrights single handedly have pushed the Kids with Autism Act in Congress.

When a couple firefighters in Boston died trying to save some kids and a listener called in to report the heroism, he wrote a check...right then and there...wrote a big check and he has done that a dozen times.

There are a dozen other charities and events he sponsors or is a major contributor to each year...NOW...if God judges by a lifetime's actions rather than a few seconds of thoughtless and stupid talk...can we aspire to do less.

And in case you don't get it, this was a BAD THING. He should be ashamed and he is...but unlike Rush and Savage and a host of others, he has a lot of chips in the "good deeds bank" and we should cut him a little slack.; १०/४/०७, २:२९ PM
tjl म्हणाले...: Freder makes hdhouse's comments on this thread seem like a model of balance and good sense. Freder, Imus has aleady undergone the penance dictated by the conventions of PC. If apologizing to Sharpton isn't enough self-abasement, what atonement will suffice? A public scourging? A guillotine?; १०/४/०७, २:३१ PM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: I have always found these lefty Self-Criticism rituals so cleansing. Two minutes of hate for Goldstein, er, Imus!

And remember, we have always been at war with Eastasia.; १०/४/०७, २:४८ PM
Joaquin म्हणाले...: hdhouse - Give me a break! Like what Imus has done in the past means a rats a$$.

This is the best:

NEW YORK -- The Rutgers women's basketball coach and several of her players expressed pain and outrage at the racially charged comments Don Imus made about them, saying he overshadowed their success with remarks that degraded women across the globe.

Pain, outrage, degradation!! OH MY!

Imus, you buddied-up with Al and Jesse and now they are having you for lunch. You had it comin!; १०/४/०७, २:४९ PM
Hazy Dave म्हणाले...: C'mon, Ann, your trolls need you post something they can disagree with!

...apparently I touched a nerve with Ann.

Yup, there's the attention you crave.; १०/४/०७, २:५२ PM
AllenS म्हणाले...: Freder:

You have internet bad breath.; १०/४/०७, ३:०८ PM
trev म्हणाले...: Kudos to freder frederson for fighting the good fight. I really admire you for having the patience to deal with the folks on here. You would think a law professor would have more to say, but it is American Idol night and wine needs to be poured.; १०/४/०७, ३:१९ PM
Laura Reynolds म्हणाले...: She might even have a class to teach; १०/४/०७, ३:४१ PM
Fen म्हणाले...: I thought Imus was already dead. [shrug] I used to enjoy his show, but his constant abuse of his staff was tiresome.; १०/४/०७, ३:४९ PM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: trev
Two minutes of hate for Altstein, law professor insufficiently OUTRAGED at the most recent OUTRAGE!

P.S. I condemn you for not being ruthless enough in condemning those who inadequately condemned Imus. I repudiate your weak repudiation.; १०/४/०७, ३:५१ PM
Ann Althouse म्हणाले...: Freder Frederson: "'Uh, why don't you click on the labels to this post and discover how pathetically wrong you are?' Saying "Everyone is talking" about this and then just walking away is hardly commenting on it. And I took your advice and compared posts labeled Free Speech (9) with American Idol (20) and Anti-Althousnia (14). You really should check these things before you call me "pathetically wrong"."

Yes, and there are 20 labeled "censorship," which you don't mention. And many -- I didn't count -- on racial politics.

I write about law topics virtually every day, with 76 labeled "law" since Jan. 30, 2007. I have many posts on mass media and politics and many on art and pop culture as well as my personal travels and photos. This blog is known for the variety of topics, with law consistently around 20% of the writing. I don't appreciate being characterized as someone who just wants to write about "American Idol." I certainly do write about every episode of the most popular show on television, but I don't do that as an alternative to writing about whatever other topics seem important (most of which I write about in the early morning).

Free speech and racial politics have been big subjects for me. In this post, I'm pointedly not writing about what it seems as though I would write about. That non-writing means something that I wanted to say.; १०/४/०७, ४:१४ PM
Fen म्हणाले...: As an aside, just how many kids does the Rev Al support on HIS ranch?

I'm off to purchase Foot-in-Mouth Offsets. My footprint is horrible.; १०/४/०७, ४:१४ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: Sticks and stones will break my bones but names can never hurt me.

Now everybody seems to be claiming that they do hurt. Is it possible that the rhyme was never right?; १०/४/०७, ५:५७ PM
The Exalted म्हणाले...: these girls are college students. they've done nothing wrong except lose the national title game. imus's comments were shameless, idiotic and offensive.

but... he offered a real apology, not one of those "i regret offending those who were offended." put away the guilloitine, and allow the man his two week penance.

rogerA, the difference b/t what imus said and what a comedian on stage would say is that the comedian is putting on "an act," whereas imus was relating what he actually felt...; १०/४/०७, ७:१९ PM
Maxine Weiss म्हणाले...: ...a face that was made for radio.; १०/४/०७, ७:२५ PM
Revenant म्हणाले...: But Imus is more than a "Shock jock". He regularly has high profile journalists and politicians on his show. And the lack of condemnation of his remarks by some in the mainstream media is just disgusting.

So one Democrat makes a racist remark about black people, grovels to another Democrat for forgiveness, is allegedly insufficiently condemned by the overwhelmingly Democratic media... and somehow Ann's to blame for not hammering on the issue.

Why? Because she typically votes for Democrats?; १०/४/०७, ७:४१ PM
Gahrie म्हणाले...: I've got this great idea fo5r a movie,,it's called Black Chicks. It's about two white guys who are forced to live in the inner city, and the only place they can afford is a boarding house that only accepts black women. So the two guys dress up in black face and wigs...I'm thinking maybe Ted Danson and Jim Carrey....; १०/४/०७, ९:२३ PM
Peter Hoh म्हणाले...: Where the hell are the breasts?; १०/४/०७, १०:०७ PM
LoafingOaf म्हणाले...: I have no reason to wanna defend Imus. Howard Stern has described in detail what an asswipe of a person he was back when they were at the same station, and his MSNBC show stinks. I also think his comments about he Rutgers players were weird and unfunny. But however unfunny they were, he was trying to be funny and just said something stupid. That he needs to be crucified by the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson is beyond laughable.

I'm not into the way people try and crucify others for any little stupid thing they say, and particularly so when those leading the lynch mob are racists as Al Sharpton is.

So, he said sorry and that should be that. Meanwhile, Rosie O'Donnell spewed absolutely evil 9/11 conspiracy theories on ABC and has barely been criticized at all, and not at all critized by leftists who are apparently okay with more and more people believing lies about 9/11.; १०/४/०७, ११:५७ PM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: The Exalted said...
"whereas imus was relating what he actually felt..."

NO. That is wrong. I know the man. I know some of those who work around him and I have for 14 years. He simply isn't a racist. His brand of humor is across the board inclusive and almost exclusively aimed at celebrities and politicians..those in the public life and light.

This snipet came and went in about 10 seconds and was regretted almost immediately and more and more (obviously) as time goes on but to reclassify him as a bigot/racist is simply not true.

Loafingoaf takes a swipe at him from Howard Stern's perspective. Stern, who scores a big time interview when Jenna Jamison strips for him in his studio. But as much as Stern is on the opposite pole on this one, his advice is right. Apologize and move on and if people don't accept your apology, then tell them to stuff it.

If you think his MSNBC show is terrible, don't watch, but the demographics indicate a substantial audience made up, in the NY area anyway, with an income and educational level higher than any audience other than NPR. I listen on my way to work or in my office because I like to hear what very bright guests have to say and they go on there because they have a forum that let's them speak to more than a million or so at a time.

This is no longer about Imus as it is all about the Sharpton types (and of course Faux Noise).

God. Move on.; ११/४/०७, ६:२३ AM
Sloanasaurus म्हणाले...: If you think his MSNBC show is terrible, don't watch

This makes sense to me.

I find that Keith Oberman is the most vile and offensive commentator on TV today. Every time I accidently see some of his show I feel that he is insulting me and my family. So I don't watch him.; ११/४/०७, ८:१६ AM
TMink म्हणाले...: TJL wrote: "Freder makes hdhouse's comments on this thread seem like a model of balance and good sense."

Hey, hdh's comments have been a model of balance and good sense. Every last one of them.

HDH and I have swung at each other in the past, and perhaps will in the future 8) But he posted accurate information that advanced my knowledge of the issue and the conversation in general. What more can anyone do?

I know that ii certain circles one is expected to totally disregard a person's entire life because they say soemthing outrageously racist or have vestiges of internalized racism. But hdh looked at the complete measure of the man, condemned his faults, and praised his apparently considerable acomplishments. No wonder some lefties started attacking hdh. That is what you guys do to those less ideologically "pure" than you. Witness ADS.

For the record, I have some internalized racism in me that I abhor but admit. I was raised in the south, born in 1960. It was smeared on me by my culture like the drek it is. I think AWFUL thoughts at times, they pop into my mind like a cancer. They are embarassing but they are there.

I could pretend to deny them, or ignore those thoughts, but then I would act on them. So a man of Imus' age will have some internalized racism to deal with, and that is apparent. I found his comments offensive, and I am glad he is having to answer for them.

Now when will Sharpton and Jesse start answering for their anti-semitism and bigotry toward white people?

Trey; ११/४/०७, ९:१२ AM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: thank you Trey. yes we will continue to disagree on a lot of things. so be it.

your call to sharpton to get real about racism (his) is apropos to Imus most certainly and to all of us most assurdly.

Maybe one bad side of political correctness is that it prohibits discussion of race in this country...and we are too quick to call someone racists when the terms "careless, unthinking, coldblooded etc." would suffice. Not every remark is racist and not every racist styled remark is "meant that way".

I'm glad Imus is meeting with the Rutgers team. That takes balls. My hope is that the Rev. Al won't be there to offer his guidance. let these offended women (and they are) work it out with him. Isn't that they way it should be?; ११/४/०७, ९:४४ AM
TMink म्हणाले...: HDH, it certainly should be between Imus and those he insulted.

What gets me is why one man's words are given such power. All I can figure is that blacks are that weak or whites are that strong. Either idea is counter to my experience and ideology. But when you look at the lyrics of contemporary songs and see the misandry and racism in them, why is it ignored? Is it because they were just written by black men, and black men don't count? That is racist!

I understand and accept that in the past, whites had all the power. Is it still accepted that whites have all the power? Is it true? Are blacks so thin skinned and vulnerable that one man's words, bigoted and said in jest, that any real harm is done?

It does not wash with me, or pass the smell test. People are people, and humans endured slavery, racism, Aushwitz, and survived, many even triumphed, no matter what their race or background. We are a tough bunch and do better when we accept the fact and act on it.

Trey; ११/४/०७, ११:०८ AM
Jacques Albert म्हणाले...: The solution to problems associated with college sports and so-called student-athletes is the dissolution of college sports as a seedy entertainment industry that promotes corruption, exploitation and thuggery.; ११/४/०७, ११:१८ AM
Jeremy म्हणाले...: Curious juxtaposition over at slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2163908/) Wherein Slate highlights the Imus brouhaha followed by the the Pac Man suspension. One guy is involved in a shooting at a strip club, the other is mildly crude on air. One guy gets a year suspension at work, the other maybe fired?

Misplacing priorities very much?; ११/४/०७, ११:३० AM
hdhouse म्हणाले...: actually Trey...as i am loathe to admit it...you got it right....before you jump in the air...not all of it...but

that bit about "black man's skin is so thin skinned...not all of them..."

that may be all of us. what sets us off...lights our fuses....and why so much now.

Ann (calling ann althouse)...what is really going on..? I don't want to, need to, write yet another book or essay, but now my few small hairs on my neck are up...what is this?

why does sharpton eat his own? will he find better solace on the neo-con side of the street than a mainstreamer like Imus? We have such a terrible history of being assholes in areas like this. Liberals should be shot, not by conservatives but by real liberals who want to keep pretenders off the pedistal. (sp); ११/४/०७, १:५४ PM
trev म्हणाले...: TMink said...

I understand and accept that in the past, whites had all the power. Is it still accepted that whites have all the power? Is it true? Are blacks so thin skinned and vulnerable that one man's words, bigoted and said in jest, that any real harm is done?

Are you insane??

It is not one man's words. This happens all the time!!! Look at the way Obama has been treated. Listen to the racism of Beck or Hannity or Limbaugh or these fools here in San
Fran.

No my friend, this is not an isolated incident. It is constant. And for you to say just tough it up is ridiculous.

And, for Althouse to ignore this issue is beyond belief. This is a subject that everyone is talking about, this post has the most comments, it involves insults directed at women and the blog owner has nothing to say. Wow. But she does have time to comment on every singer on American Idol.
What a joke.; ११/४/०७, ५:१६ PM
tjl म्हणाले...: "No my friend, this is not an isolated incident. It is constant. And for you to say just tough it up is ridiculous"

Yes, trev, you're so right. There can be no forgiveness for a PC transgression of this magnitude. PC dogma can be fulfilled only when Imus confesses his crimes and submits to the flames of an auto-da-fe on the Rutgers basketball court.; ११/४/०७, ७:३४ PM
Revenant म्हणाले...: It is not one man's words. This happens all the time!!! Look at the way Obama has been treated.

"The way Obama has been treated" is that he's been promoted as a Presidential candidate purely on the basis of being charismatic and black. It is obviously silly to point to criticism of him as evidence of racism, except in the sense that in a color-blind society nobody would ever think of nominating him for the Presidency this early in his career.

or these fools here in San
Fran.

"These fools here" doesn't really narrow it down any when you're talking about San Franscisco.; ११/४/०७, १०:०४ PM
TMink म्हणाले...: Hey Trev, I am, honestly, not insane! And perhaps I miswrote my point. Black men and women survived the trip from Africa to America when the slave trade was happening, they survived being slaves once they got here, they survived the Civil war, they survived Jim Crow, they survived and won (thank God) the Civil Rights struggle. These are not the accomplishments of a weak or thin skinned bunch!

I minored in African American studies at UNC in the early 80s. The focus of the department at that time was on the strength, spirituality, and ingenuity of a group of people who survived and went on the thrive.

Jackson and Sharpton portray the black race as fragile victims rather than wise survivors. I prefer to think of black Americans as tough and battle tested. Words? Big deal when you faced dogs, lynchings, and fire hoses and won.

I was speaking of Imus' words, but when black Americans triumphed over generations of racism and physical assault, what are a few words? What are a lot of words? Just hot air to the strong.

Trey; ११/४/०७, १०:०८ PM