Brigitte Mohnhaupt, 57, qualifies for early release after serving a minimum proportion of her five life sentences.She is being released because it's been determined that she is not viewed as dangerous. She never even showed remorse.
[The Baader-Meinhof gang], also known as the Red Army Faction, were behind kidnaps and killings in West Germany....
Mohnhaupt was convicted of involvement in nine murders. Victims included a judge, a banker and the employers' federation president.
१२ फेब्रुवारी, २००७
"The most evil and dangerous woman in West Germany," given five life sentences...
... will be released after serving only 24 years:
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So what does that mean? You accept her release because remorse is always only bullshit?
This is why we Americans love the death penalty (applied correctly): someone sentenced to "life" for murder will often get out in as little as fifteen years. But if you're sentenced to "death," you're never getting out of jail, even if the state doesn't get around to executing you.
(Rare exceptions occur, blah blah blah.)
Sadly, I worry that they will live to regret that early parole. And what does it say to the loved ones of the people she murdered?
Trey
Those offshoots of Baader Meinhof have showed no remorse whatsoever. Many of them have gone crazy right wing or are emotionally destroyed, but to my knowledge none has recanted.
They killed over 200 people. They killed the judge who convicted Baader by delivering boquets to him on his birthday, then opening up with hidden pistols until he was dead. Another woman visited her father's best friend, a bank president, and opened fire, killing him, after he greeted her when she visited him in his office.
These people are as nuts as the present day terrorists.
Liberals weak against terrorists?
Where would I get that idea?
Seriously, if Brigitte Mohnhaupt moves to America she could get tenure at University of Illinois or Northwestern and have fawning interviews published by New York Times!!!
Maybe she should move to Wisconsin and marry Steven Avery, of the Wisconsin Innocence Project fame!
Unfortunately I'm not very surprised by the release. I'm shocked Germany isn't trying to blame the US in some way for her crimes.
Jeff: Stunning, isn't it, to think that that interview with Bill Ayers was published by the NY Times on 9/11/2001 and was no doubt being read by at least one person in the Trade Towers in the very moment that Flight 175 and Flight 11 were bearing in.
I heard about this on the BBC world service last night. They spent more time on it than their nightly America/Bush bashing. They obviously thought it was a pretty important story. The BBC is hardly right wing.
As to whether or not she should be released, I guess it depends on what you think prison is for. Some think that prison should rehabilitate the person or at least give them time to develop remorse. Others think that it prison is simply punishment. I tend towards the later.
In this particular case, since the woman has shown no remorse nor rehabilitation, the german powers that be apparently think that 27 years is enough punishment for 9 first degree murders. I disagree but they didn't ask me.
In the end, this is a German problem to be dealt with as they see fit.
German problem, yes.
But this sort of thing is why some change their mind about the death penalty...
Further, how many times has the left dragged out the old "look at Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, Christians are the real terrorists" canard? Never mentioning of course that McVeigh was a radical athiest closer in views to Cindy Sheehan than Pat Robertson.
Now Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph are/were liberals. Thanks! How bout Skinheads, Neo-Nazis, KKK, Aryan Nations? Once in a while a post just stands out from the others. That was one of them.
"Interesting that you think they are right wingers.
I don't understand your post. I didn't say they are right wingers; I said some became right wingers later. Horst Mahler, for one, has experienced the transformation I'm talking about. Once a true believer, always a true believer.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/sep2000/red-s01.shtml
She reminds me of our own terrorists of the same era, including the Symbionese Liberation Army member Kathleen Soliah (aka Sara Jane Olson).
Little known is how Minnesota's own new Muslim Representative Keith Ellison favored this terrorist.
"Ellison praised Soliah for “fighting for freedom.” At the time, she faced charges of planting pipe bombs under two Los Angeles police cars as a member of the Symbionese Liberation Army, a paramilitary organization whose slogan was “Death to the fascist insect that preys on the life of the people.” Soliah pleaded guilty in 2001. In 2002 she also pleaded guilty to the murder of Myrna Opsahl, a bank customer shot by another SLA member during a holdup. She’s now serving a long prison sentence. But Ellison’s call to the crowd was broader than a plea to aid Soliah. “We need to come together and free…all the Saras,” he proclaimed."
I think Daryl was spoofing the dour leftist puritans therin.
Of course he was.
But the NL/RC kinds of embittered pillocks who just come here to carp every day about Ann.
All Ann. All the Time. FU-Country 99.9 FM.
Cheers,
Victoria
But this sort of thing is why some change their mind about the death penalty...
Very few Europeans do, even with this kind of scum that the Baader-Meinhof gang represents.
So what now, for Mohnhaupt? Will she be a tribute guest star in the Cindy Sheehan circuit?
Cheers,
Victoria
"Harris County (Houston), whose DA said, in response to Vermont's planned tourist boycott against Texas because Texas still has capital punishment, "If you don't like our ways, don't commit murder here."
That was an easy call to make. Houston isn't exactly a tourist Mecca, and its vast petrochemical industry would make it particularly unappetizing to crunchy-granola Vermonters.
As to Mohnhaupt's remorse or lack thereof, 27 years in prison have most likely dimmed her revolutionary flame. She may still believe in the Cause in theory, but in late middle age she won't have the aggression or physical energy to be a terrorist menace.
"DailyKos and Atrios saw no need to mention this story. What made it so attractive to you?"
It says something about the blogosphere that I honestly can't tell whether that's a joke or not. I suppose it doesn't matter. it's hilarious either way.
Asking your opponents to loudly denounce everything that's bad to prove they don't agree is a little childish.
Darryl wrote: "DailyKos and Atrios saw no need to mention this story."
Hmm, if they mentioned it, there would be no need for Ann's blog. Also, I find their blogs boring. So I appreciate that Ann's blog is not like theirs.
Trey
Re: Mohnhaupt
"... 27 years in prison have most likely dimmed her revolutionary flame. She may still believe in the Cause in theory, but in late middle age she won't have the aggression or physical energy to be a terrorist menace"
And most revolutionaries discover that anarchy has a really bad dental plan.
...but in late middle age she won't have the aggression or physical energy to be a terrorist menace.
Scootering round the inherent ageism underpinning that thought, I can only hope you're right.
Ms 'Poppy Head' [truly - it's German name thing] has done this twice before: been caught, got out or off, then picked up the gun and started shooting again.
Is there any data on the upper-quartile age range of terrorists?
Re: "...age range of terrorists?"
I think they become mentors.
"She is being released because it's been determined that she is not viewed as dangerous. She never even showed remorse."
Love means never having to say you're sorry. What kind of hippie are you, anyway?
So what now, for Mohnhaupt? Will she be a tribute guest star in the Cindy Sheehan circuit?
Typical moronic brownshirt fuck: gotta toss in that Sheehan reference, no matter what.
The stench of rotting brains here is truly overwhelming.
what a bunch of weirdos.
no attempt to analyze the legal issues or theories behind this woman's release, just stock winger nonsense against liberal bogeymen.
In the end, this is a German problem to be dealt with as they see fit.
Fully half the RAF targets were American military including assassinations, rocket attacks, kidnappings and car bombs.
I was stationed in Germany in the period, and the RAF was the real deal. No redeeming qualities IMHO.
Having said that, in order to root out the RAF, the German government and its version of Delta Force (German GSG9) are some serious dudes.
The Germans, even with a thriving democracy, have a much higher tolerance for law and order and less respect for things included in our Bill Of Rights. It's a shame they are so gutless on prison sentences. For example I remember after a RAF bombing, the Germans would throw roadblocks across the freeways and put the German Army in armored vehicles out there as barriers with live machine guns pointed at cars as they would search every car on that freeway. amazing...I'm glad that sort of violence and response doesnt happen here.
It's well worth reviewing the thread Sippican links to above. His money quote: There is no excuse for killing people while trying to violently overthrow the government in a civil society.
no attempt to analyze the legal issues or theories behind this woman's release, just stock winger nonsense against liberal bogeymen.
Are you sure you want to promote the idea that only right-wingers have a problem with unrepentant mass-murdering terrorists being released on parole? Because I'm pretty sure that if someone said "liberals are soft on terrorism" you'd be one of the first to throw a temper tantrum over it.
But in any case, if you think there are "legal issues" or "legal theories" that justify her release, by all means say what they are.
This is but further evidence that the post-vietnam and post-Cold War settlement was flawed. We never dealt with the traitors in our midst, and instead celebrated the traitors as leaders. Jane Fonda should have been tried for her activities, as should have John Kerry for his freelancing and Drunky McCan'tCallThePoliceTillISoberUpScrewTheBimboInThePassengerSeat for his intimate personal relations with the Sovs. The only appropriate response to treason and terrorism is to emulate the Romans in the extent and thoroughness of the punishment.
McCarthy was right. Bring back Tail-gunner Joe and hanging, drawing, and quartering for traitors.
This pandering to the Baader-Meinhof is part of the idea that Kent State was a massacre. Too few rioters were killed. Rather than seeing rioting as part of youthful exuberance, it should be treated as the act of war that it is and a full and Draconian application of the Riot Act - especially shooting those that don't disperse - should be employed.
I think they become mentors.
...I did once meet one of your 'Weathermen' who'd fled the States unsurprisingly when the wind turned chilly.
He pitched up at some anarchist conference - how unanarchist is that? - had weird ideas and bad breath.
Leastways he claimed to be a Weatherman. May have been a cover for illegal CIA alien.
Two groups always attended such gatherings - MI5 and/or MI6 in search of potential terrorist threat, and talent scouts for Big Business in search of future industry leaders. Who's to say who had the better day out?
" ... crunchy-granola Vermonters."
Easy now. I'm a Vermonter, and we also like smooth-granola. Don't label us.
Sell her to Bin Laden for target practice.
(OT) Heads up for those who are interested.
Hang on to your britches. O'Reilly is just doing the Marcotte piece and used that quote about the "hot, sticky" insemination of the Virgin Mary.
You know, being on blogs spoils one. You get the news, the subsequent discussion, good bad and ugly, and then when it's finally died down, MSM gets their paws on the story -- starting the brouhaha again.
I have to say, when my mother (who doesn't read blogs, even my own heh) read the quote on the O'Reilly blurb, as she passed by the set, she thought Edwards was a complete idiot for hiring such a person who would write that. To her, as I'm sure to your ordinary person, our blog conversations seem unintelligibly crude.
The "Mr. Edwards Buckle Watch Times 2" is on the clock.
Cheers,
Victoria
Let's take a moment to enjoy the irony of Dave calling us "brownshirts" for being too tough on murderous totalitarian Germans.
"brown shirts that killed millions in the name of "Der Volk"
It's "Das Volk," BSC.
Any lawyer who's done any criminal defense has from time to time encountered aging parolees who hit the streets after 30 or 40 year sentences. No matter how heinous their original crimes, by this point in their lives they are capable of little more than petty theft and drug offenses. They're more pathetic than dangerous. Mohnhaupt may still cling to her ideology - otherwise she'd have to admit to herself that she did monstrous things and wasted her life -- but she is hardly likely to embark on a new terrorist rampage.
Revenant said...
Are you sure you want to promote the idea that only right-wingers have a problem with unrepentant mass-murdering terrorists being released on parole?
i said nothing of the sort. i'm fine with a rational critique against her release. what i'm not fine with are the fools here turning this into a liberal/conservative clash.
But in any case, if you think there are "legal issues" or "legal theories" that justify her release, by all means say what they are.
I'm sure the german court felt there was some "legal theory" permitting her release, and, in fact, stated it pretty explicitly: she is no longer a threat.
Look, I'm not defending the court or the prisoner, just reacting to the foolishness here. See something you don't like in a foreign country? Bash domestic opponents! Derangement syndrome indeed.
Food for thought:
Nelson Mandela was imprisoned for the same length of time as Mohnhaupt. The first thing he did upon getting out of jail was give a speech calling for the continued use of terrorist attacks (or "armed struggle", if you prefer) by the African National Congress.
Just because decades in prison mellows out the average gangbanger doesn't mean it mellows out people who see themselves as political prisoners. Never underestimate the staying power of fanatical beliefs.
I'm sure the german court felt there was some "legal theory" permitting her release, and, in fact, stated it pretty explicitly: she is no longer a threat.
That "legal theory" had already been discussed by the time you posted your complaint. Many posters had observed that the "no longer a threat" standard is a monumentally stupid reason for letting mass murderers out of prison early.
Maybe she and the former Weather Underground and SLA members can get together over some wine and cheese and have laugh at all the people they killed.
Involved in 9 killing sentenced to 5 "life sentences" and only 24 years served.
What is that, about 3 years a life?
tjl - there's a psychopath at your house with your wife and kids. just how "likely" does it have to be that he plans to kill them for you to hurry home?
If you have a problem with this, then just go over there and kill her. You'll probably only serve 6 months in prison.
"go over there and kill her. You'll probably only serve 6 months in prison."
That would be in accord with current German sentencing guidelines. After all, the psychopath who killed and ate someone he met on the internet only got 8.
That would be in accord with current German sentencing guidelines. After all, the psychopath who killed and ate someone he met on the internet only got 8.
Which makes me wonder -- do German audiences watch a movie like "Silence of the Lambs" and wonder "how come the feds are getting involved? Isn't this a job for the petty crimes division?"
Victoria, most surveys show that majorities of Europeans (I think Italy is an exception, and possibly Spain) favor re-introduction of the death penalty. Some by almost US-type majorities (65-35 or so).
It's the EU governing elites who don't favor the death penalty.
I agree that she should be in prison for much longer.
That said, with all of these short sentences, it's a fact that Germans (like most Europeans, with the possible exception of Russians) kill each other much less than Americans do.
So it may not be sentencing (which after all crime is more of a symptom of other things), but clearly their society is doing something right.
Remorse plays a role in the sentencing phase of the German trial, but not when it comes to the question of the suspension of the remainder of a prison sentence. For making this decision, the court considers aspects like the personality of the convicted person, circumstances of the act, likelihood of recidivism and many more. Remorse, however, is not a factor that – if missing – keeps the doors of the prison shut. The German criminal justice system neither wants nor even attempts to turn the criminal into a saint – rehabilitation that helps to prevent recidivism is a goal hard enough to achieve. It is also human dignity, protected in Article 1 of the German Constitution, which demands to give even those sentenced to life in prison the chance to get out one day. For that, a prognosis as to how safe this is for the community and matters of due process are more important than John Doe’s or Nancy Grace’s need for retaliation. Admittedly, America is tough on crime, and three-strikes, Guantanamo or limitations on habeas corpus made this a safe country. I am only wondering why German recidivism rates are if not lower at least not higher than Americans and why Germans suffer almost five times fewer homicides per year per 100,000 than Americans.
Victoria, most surveys show that majorities of Europeans (I think Italy is an exception, and possibly Spain) favor re-introduction of the death penalty. Some by almost US-type majorities (65-35 or so).
It's the EU governing elites who don't favor the death penalty.
Ah, I see. However, and not that I'm doubting your stated findings, but do you have a link, to this?
Because in my personal experience, as a Briton, that is most certainly not the case.
Most Europeans I know have maybe but one common thread of consensus -- no death penalty.
Cheers,
Victoria
Exactly how is this a criticism of Germany, when Angela Davis has been a UC professor the whole 24 years???
*Germany* releases a terrorist murderer ... and Cedarfurd still manages to blame it on the Jews. Wow, what an obsessed little dweeb.
Any lawyer who's done any criminal defense has from time to time encountered aging parolees who hit the streets after 30 or 40 year sentences. No matter how heinous their original crimes, by this point in their lives they are capable of little more than petty theft and drug offenses.
...We're not talking Brooks Hatlen in 'Shawshanks', a dried old institutionalised con who would rather die than be released from the safety of his familiar prison world. They release him anyway; he gives up and hangs himself.
Ms PoppyHead is a late-fifties woman mentally and physically capable of any terrorist act that doesn't actively involve abseiling.
That's not to argue the merits or demerits of her release (I lean heavily to the demerits) but to acknowledge the risk involved.
Fifty is not the new Eighty.
I'm not an attorney, so somebody please explain to me something I have never understood. Why is it called a "life sentence" if the criminal does not serve life -- as in die in prison?
Cedarford:
How about that black kid that shot up the shopping mall in Utah yesterday?
vonliszt said...
actual analysis (and sarcasm) -- my head just exploded
"I'm a Vermonter, and we also like smooth-granola. "
Smooth granola? Sorry, I'm having trouble visualizing that.
"Any lawyer who's done any criminal defense has from time to time encountered aging parolees who hit the streets after 30 or 40 year sentences. No matter how heinous their original crimes, by this point in their lives they are capable of little more than petty theft and drug offenses."
I fail to see the relevance of any of this. She murdered nine people. She was sentenced to life sentences. That is relevant. Whether she is or is not a danger to others now is not relevant -- unless you have a rather twisted sense of justice.
"If you have a problem with this, then just go over there and kill her. You'll probably only serve 6 months in prison."
You have a point.
"Exactly how is this a criticism of Germany, when Angela Davis has been a UC professor the whole 24 years???"
You also.
"What skews America's stats are the far higher frequency of criminal acts by (especially)blacks and also hispanics."
That's actually only a small part of it. The biggest difference is in how different countries report crime statistics. The US reports all crime stats, whether there was a conviction or not. Most European countries do not, hence, they report lower crime stats.
Red Brigade returns
Home Sweet Home for Ms Poppy Head
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