MORE: Here:
The Islamist fighters, who had seemed invincible after taking Mogadishu in June, now seem powerless to stop the steady advance of the Ethiopian-backed forces of the transitional government.
By this afternoon, the transitional government troops were within 60 miles of Mogadishu and calling for the Islamists to surrender. The Islamist leaders refused, saying they would take their fight “everywhere,” which some people viewed as a veiled threat to expand the guerilla tactics and suicide bombs they have already used.
The fast-moving developments seem to confirm what United Nations officials and witnesses in Somalia have been saying since the fighting erupted a week ago: that the young forces of the Islamists, however religiously inspired, were no match for the better trained, better equipped Ethiopian-backed troops who have tanks and fighter jets.
Still, the conflict is hardly over. Thousands of people continue to march in the streets of Mogadishu, rallying behind the Islamists, and analysts are unanimous that an Ethiopian occupation of Mogadishu, a city thick with weapons and xenophobia, could become a bloodbath.
IN THE COMMENTS: Paco Wové writes:
"All this could have been averted," Prendergast said. "If the U.S..." {snip}
Ahh, yes. I knew it had to be all our fault somehow.
पोस्ट्स
२६ टिप्पण्या:
"All this could have been averted," Prendergast said. "If the U.S..." {snip}
Ahh, yes. I knew it had to be all our fault somehow.
Typical Althousian nonsense. Prendergast didn't say anything like it was the fault of the US. He said if we had joined the talks that negotiations would have had a better chance.
But no way that Paco or Ann or any conservatard would ever know that, because conservatards hate having to look objectively at hard truths. And will "snip!" turn away when faced with any amount of criticism.
As Stanley Kurtz at the NRO noted, conservatards can't handle the truth, and so it's the media's fault
for Iraq because the media tried to give Kurtz the truth.
Think happy happy thoughts Ann.
"But no way that Paco or Ann or any conservatard would ever know that, because conservatards hate having to look objectively at hard truths. And will "snip!" turn away when faced with any amount of criticism."
Ah, yes, the chickendoves have arrived. This is what happens when you give two-year-olds a computer to play with. Never have a solution, just call names; too bad they can't be sent to their rooms w/o supper.
From the article:
Analysts said the current crisis stems from another failure of U.S. policy in an increasingly vulnerable region. "All this could have been averted," Prendergast said. "If the U.S. joined a serious diplomatic effort aimed at finding a compromise between Ethiopia and the Courts, negotiations could have had a much better chance. Once the serious punching has started, it's going to be increasingly difficult to stop this brawl."
Pendergrast is even stupider than the original partial qoute showed him to be.
Islamic terrorists do not negotiate - it is sharia or death. They have a mindset that is far more extreme than that of hard core communists - because as an islamic terrorist, you die, you get your virgins. With the communists, you were just food for worms.
What do the islamists have to do before the Left will see that when they say 'Sharia or death', they mean exactly that?
It was no different in the 7th and 8th centuries than it is now.
Actually, the US instigated the war, paco wove! Int’l Herald Trib
Blood for oil and all that. Fits quite nicely into the template narrative. Soon to be appearing on placards in NY, London and LA.
Reality Check gets a BARDY score of 9.2.
I'm sure someone can do better.
Haha...Althouse, no matter what you say, you're a conservative to me. If you aren't part of the blame-America-first crowd, you are, almost by definition, conservative.
Whatever. If the US can't fight Islamism without CNN and Anderson Cooper anguishing on camera, then we'll let other nations fight them, off air, with much cruder implements of war. The UN can gesticulate all they want, their talk is worth nothing, as Iran well knows.
The Post changed the article, removing the Prendergast quote?
Islamic terrorists do not negotiate - it is sharia or death. They have a mindset that is far more extreme than that of hard core communists - because as an islamic terrorist, you die, you get your virgins.
There is a small distinction here - the Islamic Courts were not all terrorists before the current fighting. The Courts administered a fair amount of the country, and the fighters were in a militia. Sure, an unknown (large?) percentage may have been terrorists before, or elsewhere, and they will likely resort to guerrila warfare now, but they are currently fighting for an unrecognized administration - not just an abstract ideal.
None of this is unexpected. The Islamic Courts had previously talked about having an outside force run Mogadishu, but used Ethiopians either as an excuse to kill talks, or a legitimate concern. Likewise, Ethiopia claims that the Islamic Courts want to control the areas where ethnic Somalis live in Eastern Ethiopia, also a real concern. The official government is as weak as can be, and the result is that most of the country will probably revert back into a patchwork of fiefdoms, some government-legitimized.
Looks like I missed a nice little Althouse skirmish today.
I hope the US military takes note and gets a BIG FRIGGING GREEN LIGHT to use the same amount of smashing force against the islamafaschotards in Iraq. So we can bring the troops home soon and victorious!
Bart,
Surely your Ethiopian friend is wrong. Everyone knows the Islamists are peace loving peoples without any interest in expansionist aggression against neighboring non-Muslim countries.
And by "everyone," I mean the congressional majorities and their voters.
Tim, you forgot about journalists and academics.
Ann, here's how to make the Paco Wove comment linkable.
Just add the letter "c" after "...html#", like "...confusing.html#c1167..."
Speaking of objective hard truths, can there be any question that reality check has a severely limited capacity for logic, reason, and reality. Some might suggest that is only to be expected from someone with the brain capacity of a rotting pea, but I submit it is more likely an objective hard truth that reality check's comments are just juvenile ejacualtions, albeit with tendencies towards infantile regression.
I suspect what we're about to witness is the quote-unquote international community, i.e., the UN, interfere, intervene and prevent both Ethiopian and TFG forces from prosecuting the war to it's full and logical conclusion. This type of premature action on the part of the UN is, of course, highly favorable for the Islamist's - especially in this type of warfare.
We, here in the US, talk a lot about preventing the spread and expansion of radical Islam, well then assisting the Ethiopian's and the TFG in putting an end to the ICU would not only establish a beach-head on the continent but would be an excellent place to start pushing back radical Islam’s spread.
Having worked in Africa and the Mid-East from the mid-60’s to mid-80’s, my recommendation would be to prevent the UN from any precipitant and premature action and not the Ethiopian’s. It won’t be pretty but it will get done.
The Post changed the article, removing the Prendergast quote?
Apparently so -- as of this morning, Mr. Prendergast has disappeared from the article entirely.
The UN has lost no time calling for Ethiopia to surrender....er, calling for a cease fire. Are they at the UN all nakedly jihad sympathizers or just cowards?
UN calls for cease fire
BTW, do you ever get the feeling that print media read blog reaction and delete the most egregious propaganda from their stories, like the Prendergast quotes?
I looked around on some news sites for more on what Prendergast had to say.
Apparently, the Bush - Cheney Administration supported the invasion of Somalia ? And, the "Bush can do no wrong" crowd reflexively deny wrongdoing? Knee jerk much?
Here's a better Prendergast quote:
"John Prendergast of the International Crisis Group, who worked on Africa issues in the Clinton National Security Council and State Department, called the current administration's policy "idiotic." Tacit U.S. support for Ethiopia's military incursion has "incalculably strengthened" the Courts' appeal to Somali nationalism and "made our counterterrorism agenda nearly impossible to implement," he said."
The International Crisis Group is a left/ liberal NGO and the WAPO article gives the impression Prendergrast is speaking for the USA in some official capacity.
In fact, he is just doing the old JohnKerry ropa dope about "how partnering with our Euro aliies and working thru the UN would have prevened this stuff".
Get a clue alpha liberal.
You mean to say someone who is a Democrat from the Clinton administration thinks the current administration's approach is "idiotic"? Quell suprise! And that Ethiopia fighting back will draw more Islamists, grow more terrorists, and exacerbate a situation so confusing that not even he can fathom how to deal with it?
All that's missing is the quagmire charge. But that's for next week.
And here is the (oft-requested) link if anyone wants to visit the International Crisi Group website. You will note George Soros is on its Executive Committee.
[There must be a damn lucrative business that gets paid big money to come up with these official sounding NGO names. And many seem to be run by the same 100 or so people-sorta like the city of Philly.]
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1139&l=1
Patca:
You and I seem to notice the same obvious stuff but some young smart reporters and their editors look right past it. In fact, they run to these soundbite sources and embrace them.
"support[ing] the invasion of Somalia" = "wrongdoing" ?
All things considered, if Ethiopia really routed the Islamic Courts Union that easily, in what seems to be a matter of days, it does look like the risks of unstable hellholes turning into stable havens for Islamic radicalism are a little overblown. We beat a humiliating retreat from Somalia over a decade ago, and as far as I can tell, only recently did the Islamic Courts start harbouring significant terrorist facilities (training camps and the like down in their power centres in the south). If they can get kicked out this easily, even those look pretty vulnerable. We ought to pay Ethiopia to blow those up too.
I am, though, a little surprised by these reports of Ethiopian military effectiveness. Only recently, they were involved in a protracted and bloody war with Eritrea in which Ethiopian tactics apparently consisted of sending waves of soldiers over the top to attack Eritrean trench fortifications. They lost something like 60,000-120,000 men that way. Ah well. Maybe they've been practicing on Ethiopias ethnic minorities again. Or maybe the ICU is just run by blithering idiots.
Balfegor,
The US has been training the Ethiopian military for years for such an eventuality, as well as giving various types of aid to that country.
And, yes, it is easy to defeat them militarily at least. Look at Afghanistan. The Ethiopians do not wither at the first negative editorial in the NYT, however, and that's the big difference.
I'm sure the NGOs will start reporting soon on all their "abusive" tactics, but in the meantime they kicked the Islamic butts. If only we would have done the same in Iraq.
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