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The London Times reports.“The situation is of course not simple,” Putin said before the negotiations began. “We will do everything that depends on us to ensure the safety of the negotiation process and mediators such as yourselves,” he added....
Afterwards, Witkoff thanked Putin for the “incredible memories” from the visits to the Russian capital. “We were all talking about when we retire, we’ll have all these incredible stories and incredible memories, and yours will be right at the top of it all,” he told Putin....
Yuri Ushakov, a Kremlin aide, told reporters... “The talks went beyond a mere exchange of views on resolving the Ukrainian crisis. Economic issues and potential major, mutually beneficial Russian-American projects were discussed in some detail.”
পোস্টগুলি
৯৩টি মন্তব্য:
I want to have a detente with Russia so bad. I wish we had never pushed them into this war.
Russia and the US are natural allies, culturewise.
"pushed them"
"natural allies"
Funny.
"we" pushed them?
Ushakov, a Putin aide, stated (according to Sky News) : "Economic issues and potential major, mutually beneficial Russian-American projects were discussed in some detail."
No surprise there.
The only reason Americans should be in the room with Putin is to remove him from the face of the earth. Instead we send a couple real estate buffoons to make deals for themselves with land that isn’t theirs.
It used to be the best way to ensure the safety of the negotiation process and mediators was to transport them using a catering truck but that's no good anymore.
The corrupt Biden regime ... was at the helm when this thing started. Never forget the Biden family's corrupt ties to Ukraine.
Putin is a loathsome for-life KGB Soviet authoritarian, but Ukraine is still corrupt, too. It's a hot mess.
Interesting that the EU cannot, will not and did not - do a damn thing to end a war in their own backyard.
The Summer after Slavic Spring.
Incredible memories? WTF!
Trump continues to do cleanup after Obama's slop, Biden's flops. Here's to a Summer after ethnic Springs, trans Affairs, etc.
This is Trump and the Republican Party’s “special envoy” tasked with bringing about an end to Putin’s war of aggression- exactly who they wanted because this Republican administration is on the side of Russia and Putin.
"Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff tells Vladimir Putin, whose invading army has killed hundreds of thousands of people, raped and pillaged while waging the largest and bloodiest war on European soil since World War II, “when we retire, we’ll have all these incredible stories and memories, and yours will be right at the top of it all.”https://x.com/Kremlinpool_RIA/status/2096296876370755637?s=20
I'm sure the quotes are real. ////
IEE(D) lies:
"this Republican administration is on the side of Russia and Putin."
Complete LIE. Now tell us about Hillary's private server , set up and used while she was Secretary of State, and how she used it to hide her backroom deals with the Russians - -to successfully stuff Clinton Foundation coffers.
Then Hillary and MSNBC-Maddow and Adam Schitt(D) - began the bullshit Trump / Russia Russia Russia lies.
Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation Amid Russian Uranium Deal
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ does not believe diplomats should use diplomacy.
Noted.
You know, you don't have to pick a horse in every race, and then pretend that it's favorite horse.
Begley & Bagoh20: Thumbs up.
Are Witkoff and Kushner serious diplomats? Have they been up to now? Have they ever been serious peacemakers? Of course, "serious diplomats" aren't as respected as they once may have been, but I do wish the president understood that nobody else thinks as highly of Jared as he and Ivanka do.
Kushner and the Abraham Accords. Look it up.
It's funny to listen to leftwing American lying liar Democrat soviets whine about Russia.
If I were a diplomat, I would have in mind a core set of things that needed to be said clearly. I would also have at the ready several bits of fluffy monologue that would fill the time I needed to get out of the room without making a mistake.
It's the same thing as these thuggish Nazi destructive arsonist thuggish "antifa" thugs - paid for with Soros and extremist leftist international funding - but somehow they ae "anti-fascist" LOL.
F off.
Biden Walz and Kamala - Diplomats!
Perhaps Walz can bring his private assassin?
I understand Russia flew a drone right through German airspace and landed it unexploded right next to a Ukrainian transport flight loaded with weapons intended to strike Russia.
False flag or warning? On the theory of never letting a crisis go to waste, even if you have to make one yourself, the Germans are planning to establish a comprehensive surveillance state.
A lot of people think it’s a false flag, I am not so sure.
We are playing with nuclear war on two fronts, one thanks to senile Joe Biden, which the Democrats back to the hilt, even that Sayed guy in Michigan, and one started by a possibly senile, and certainly erratic, Donald Trump, that the Israel Firsters like Tel Aviv Ted Cruz and much of the Republican establishment back to the hilt.
Nobody should be able to start a term as President over the age of Seventy.
“ Afterwards, Witkoff thanked Putin for the “incredible memories” from the visits to the Russian capital. “We were all talking about when we retire, we’ll have all these incredible stories and incredible memories, and yours will be right at the top of it all,” he told Putin....”
Nauseating. Good luck getting the smell of brimstone out of your clothes, guys.
"... nobody else thinks as highly of Jared as he and Ivanka do."
"The Abraham Accords (2020) were a historic accomplishment that continues to hold unlikely Middle East nations together as allies. It was negotiated through a core U.S. team that was unconventional and White House–centered rather than State Department–led
Jared Kushner — Senior Advisor to President Trump; widely described as the principal architect and closer." ~ Grok
The Accords accomplished what conventional diplomats never could, despite decades of attempts. The problem needed "serious diplomats" like a fish needs a bicycle.
Condeleesa Rice said on a podcast in 2023 that negotiations with Russia to end the war weren't possible. So, the follow up question that wasn't asked would be, "so, then, what?" Keep fighting until every one on both sides is dead? The Center Left concept of the war in Ukraine is ludicrously stupid as evidenced by the ridiculous foreign policy of Biden's handlers. I'm not optimistic that it can be settled while Putin is alive, but at least Trump has been trying.
Most of the ME are sick to death of Hamas and the Iranian backwater tyrannical bully boys.
Hey, you can't go around solving problems and negotiating peace. The feckless serial failure community didn't give you permission.
I guess the diplomatic thing would be to publicly tell Putin Moscow smells like a sewer and that Russia is a really ugly nation. Some think that's good diplomacy, because the important thing is to childishly vent and virtue signal. Maybe they can now go to Ukraine and then tell us all how corrupt the place is. That's how you negotiate peace, am I right?
“ Lance said...
"pushed them"
"natural allies"
Funny”
Yes, exactly
Bagoh 1:14 - heh.
pray for peace
never give up
It's a slow news day, so Ms. Althouse serves up a slow pitch for the usual meatballs to work out on. Heaven forbid, the Secretary of State and special envoys conducting peace discussions using standard advance protocols. The Horror!
With the US funding having been cut off, and the EU busy with their de-industrialization and re-population experiments, money is getting harder to come by for the Ukranians. Maybe they're now having to divert their retirement skimming into actual defense spending.
Shall we review the list of diplomatic accomplishments of the prior administration and its Peace Plans for ending the war? No? Ok, then.
The mention of “incredible memories” is a bit over the top, but it doesn’t really tell us much on its own. It’s not that unusual for diplomats to praise a murderous dictator, like Nixon’s toasting Mao. It will be interesting what a final agreement says: what will Putin give up, what Ukraine will give up, what security promises will be made, and what these “mutually beneficial” U.S.-Russian plans mean.
The only thing that matters is what happens. Who does it, what they say, whether people at large like them, these things don’t mean shit.
John said...
"we" pushed them?
Every serious person knows that Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable to Russia and they know why.
This is Biden's war. Period.
Lance said...
"pushed them"
"natural allies"
Funny.
So can we assume you endorse the Maidan regime that is feeding its people into the war blender?
This war is the NAZIs vs the Soviets going back hundreds of years.
Go look at the laws Poland had to pass banning the celebrations of "heroes" by the Ukrainian refugees. Ukrainians were quite active allies of Germany in WWII.
What is funny is there are people in our country who refuse to acknowledge the deep and pervasive corruption of the Zelensky regime. Not only are they pocketing billions of US tax dollars they are running Maidan press gangs to send everyone else to fight for them.
Achilles: "This war is the NAZIs vs the Soviets going back hundreds of years."
A funny thing to say about two political ideologies that only arose during the 20th century. Comports with your usual standards of accuracy, though.
Aggie wrote: 𝘏𝘦𝘢𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘣𝘪𝘥, 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘚𝘦𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘚𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘯𝘷𝘰𝘺𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘤𝘶𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘢𝘳𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘴.
So now we’re supposed to hate Canada and love Putin? That’s where we are at with Trump's corrupt gangster government?
IEE (D)
Nobody loves Putin - you liar. Except Maddow and Adam Schitt... and Hillary - after all - Putin's people helped the Clintons make more bank.
The democrat party adore Poot. They pretend to hate him - but they admire his Soviet standards.
""we" pushed them?"
Pushed and pulled. We made Ukraine into a threat with talk of joining NATO, and then we presented a unserious threat to invasion with an administration led by a dementia patient and his back up, a woman who can't speak a single intelligent sentence.
The most dangerous thing to peace in the world is a weak United States, real or perceived.
The corrupt gangers are your party, IEE (D) The corrupt crime syndicate Xi demofuck party.
"Every serious person knows that Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable to Russia and they know why."
"We made Ukraine into a threat with talk of joining NATO"?
I'm a serious person and I know that very few Ukrainians had any desire to join NATO until after Russia invaded in 2014. Anyone who justifies either or both of the Russian invasions (2014 and 2022) by Ukraine's desire to join NATO is reversing cause and effect, and demonstrating gross ignorance of the entire war. Putin invaded Ukraine for the same reason he invaded Georgia and continues to occupy parts of Moldova: because he wants to reconstitute the USSR, and because Ukraine demonstrated that East Slavs are just as capable of building prosperous democracies as South Slavs (Slovenians, Croats, Bulgarians, etc.) and West Slavs (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks).
Russia secretly helping Iran develop supersonic cruise missiles ~ NY Post
Keep cozying up with Putin -- you’re a master strategist with great instinct! Putin is helping Iran build weapons which could kill Americans and their allies. Trump is a master planner!
Witkoff and Kushner just posed smiling with Putin in Moscow. Pick a side, or at least pretend to.
I don’t expect to see a Truth Social post on this…
Dr Weevil makes an astute observation regarding Ukraine, NATO and Russia.
Russia’s war against Ukraine isn’t simply about NATO or territory. A successful, independent Ukrainian democracy poses a more fundamental threat to Putin: it gives Russians living under an authoritarian government a nearby, culturally familiar example of what an alternative could look like. A free, prosperous Ukraine doesn’t merely challenge Russia’s geopolitical influence, it challenges the Kremlin’s political model.
Witcoff and Kushner were dispatched to Iran. Nothing came of it. Were they seriously trying to resolve the situation or just putting on a show? Was their involvement in Gaza much more than a show?
Abraham Accords? We'll see if anything actually comes of them. UAE, Bahrain, and Morocco haven't been major players in the region, though the first two do have a lot of money.
Joining NATO wasn't something Ukrainian masses were crying out for. The question is, what about Ukrainian elites? And still more, American and European elites?
Trump is ending wars all over the planet: Obama wars in Spring, Biden wars with benefits, Carter wars with an indefinite extension, and effecting emigration reform.
'...A successful, independent Ukrainian democracy poses a more fundamental threat to Putin: it gives Russians living under an authoritarian government a nearby, culturally familiar example of what an alternative could look like....'
You heard it here, from the resident genius who apparently has never heard of Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary....... And apparently thinks these are being kept a secret from the entire Russian population, too.
Diplomats believe in International Law which is fantasy animal!
Deal making needs imagination to conjure up 'pie to come' for benefits and profits.
As Real Estate is conjuring structures on empty land!
Someone needs to think about what "culturally familiar" means. And think about another point: When Russia invaded Ukraine, it had a GDP per capita twice that of Ukraine. Yet the Russian soldiers were stunned to see that ordinary Ukrainian farmers living way out in the sticks had laptops and DVD players and indoor flush toilets and modern tractors, and even the smallest towns had at least gravel roads. Meanwhile, something like a third of Russians are still using outhouses, and even large cities in European Russia are cut off from road traffic by mud for months out of every year, so that no one can leave town except by train.
How is this possible, if Russians are twice as rich as Ukrainians? That's easy: Moscow and St. Petersburg hog much more than half of the economy, so the rest of the country is much poorer than Ukraine, where the wealth is much more evenly distributed. That is the example that Putin wants to destroy.
As for things "kept a secret from the entire Russian population", even free Europeans are mostly unaware that (e.g.) Mississippians are richer than Swedes, though those who visited for the World Cup got a strong clue. How should heavily-propagandized Russians know anything accurate about the outside world?
Dr Weevil said..
I'm a serious person and I know that very few Ukrainians had any desire to join NATO until after Russia invaded in 2014...
Q: So what was Maidan and join the West all about?
Lazarus said...
Witcoff and Kushner were dispatched to Iran. Nothing came of it. ... Was their involvement in Gaza much more than a show ...
They tried selling 'Pursuit of Happiness" to Shia Jihadis seeking Death by Martyr ... So of course...
"So what was Maidan and join the West all about?" What the fuck do you mean by "join the West"? Is that supposed to be some kind of slogan of Ukraine, or what?
What Ukraine and all other post-Soviet states want is to be free, independent, and prosperous. Putin, and most Russians, hate that, and are trying to prevent it. Ukraine was far more interested in free trade and possibly joining the European Union than in joining NATO, until Russia invaded. How hard is this to understand? The claim that NATO expansion caused the invasion is an obvious lie, and Russian propaganda. The fact is that the invasions of Ukraine and Georgia caused the expansion of NATO. Sweden and Finland, for instance, were happy to remain neutral until Putin demonstrated that neutrality was stupid.
'...How should heavily-propagandized Russians know anything accurate about the outside world?...'
Those poor Russians, none of them capable of thinking for themselves, ever, eh? I give them a little more credit than maybe you do. The ones I've worked with seemed pretty smart, resourceful, skeptical too. And some of them might have actual memories of the satellite countries that used to be within the Soviet sphere of influence, but no longer are.
I don't have an axe to grind, but it does seem to me that there ought to be some efforts to forge a peace deal, instead of just waging war. Where's the UN, some might ask. Where are the peace talks, some might ask. But those questions aren't front and center, are they? I wonder why. But there are always the dopes that are first in line to criticize if they don't like the person doing it. Not because peace is bad, but because anything that person does, is.
Interesting info if any are interested to grok Siberia and Geothermal and Permafrost to explore Russian indoor plumbing
...Not because peace is bad...
In certain minds it is ---- calling warmonger complex
"The ones I've worked with" where? In the west? In Moscow or St. Petersburg? It makes a huge difference.
"I know that very few Ukrainians had any desire to join NATO until after Russia invaded in 2014..."
If true, so what? They aren't even allowed to have an election, any opposition, or a free press. They don't decide anything.
Grok:
"At the April 2008 NATO summit, alliance leaders declared that Ukraine (and Georgia) “will become members of NATO.”
Putin had already told U.S. officials before the summit that steps toward Ukrainian membership would be viewed as a hostile act."
"In 2002 Ukraine first declared NATO membership a strategic goal.
In January 2008 the president, prime minister, and parliamentary speaker jointly requested a MAP.
After the 2014 annexation of Crimea, Ukraine abandoned its non-aligned status.
In 2017 parliament restored NATO membership as a strategic objective.
In 2019 the constitution was amended to make “full-fledged membership” in NATO (and the EU) a state goal. That change is difficult to reverse."
Maybe Ukrainians on the street don't have Putin's phone number.
The issue isn’t whether Ukrainians are richer than Russians. It’s who controls political power and national wealth. In Russia, resources and opportunity are concentrated among elites tied to Putin, while citizens have limited ability to hold the system accountable.
Despite its flaws, Ukraine shows that governments can be challenged, elections can change leadership, corruption can be exposed and civil society can drive political change. The threat is not Ukrainian prosperity, but the example of ordinary citizens meaningfully controlling their government.
For an authoritarian regime, the most dangerous neighbor may be one whose citizens are free.
You trust Grok? Hahaha! Here are the pertinent parts of the Wikipedia article on Ukraine-NATO relations - you can go there and read the 7 footnotes for the details:
"In 2010, during the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, the Ukrainian parliament voted to abandon the goal of NATO membership and re-affirm Ukraine's neutral status, while continuing its co-operation with NATO.[3] In the February 2014 Ukrainian Revolution, Ukraine's parliament voted to remove Yanukovych, but the new government did not seek to change its neutral status.[4][5][6] Russia then occupied and annexed Crimea, and in August 2014 Russia's military invaded eastern Ukraine to support its separatist proxies. Because of this, in December 2014 Ukraine's parliament voted to seek NATO membership,[7] and in 2018 it voted to enshrine this goal in its constitution.[8][9]"
One more time: Ukraine's desire to join NATO is a direct result of the Russian invasion, not the other way around. If Putin had restrained himself from invading, Ukraine (and Finland and Sweden) would have had no need to join.
at least you have to give Trump credit for finding the two best people to represent our interests in these negotiations. clearly Rubio isn’t up to the task.
There is certainly an opposition in Ukraine, unlike Russia, where peace party Yabloko has been banned from the upcomding elections and its leaders arrested. There is also a free press. And the only one preventing elections in Ukraine is Putin, who bombs crowded stores, trains, and buses in the day time, and apartment buildings at night. Polling places have to be in fixed and publicized locations, open at fixed hours, and are crowded during those hours. He would undoubtedly bomb them, too. Ukraine has asked for truces for elections and been refused.
@Dr. Weevil: In the west? In Moscow or St. Petersburg? It makes a huge difference.
No. Former Soviet Union, post Perestroika.
So 20 years ago?
if Ukraine were in NATO the war never would have happened. And any idiot except perhaps Achilles knows that NATO would never start a war with Russia.
Grind it, baby. Grind it.
Ukraine’s democracy threatens Putin’s regime not because Ukrainian democracy is militarily dangerous, but because its success undermines the political argument that Russians have no viable alternative to authoritarian rule.
I can't help noticing that most of those complaining about Zelenskyy's term being extended (because elections are physically impossible) have nothing to say about Putin being in his 6th term, when the Russian constitution has a 2-term limit, and banning the one pro-peace opposition party.
The irony with the pro-Russians pushing for elections in Ukraine when Putin has never held a real election. It’s been well over 20 years and Putin just bans and kills all his rivals.
It is not complicated. Trump is betraying Ukraine or the Russians would have withdrawn by now.Trump keeps delivering hope to Putin.
Trump's motivation for continuing with his support to Putin is hidden away like the files. Nobody in the US government has the confidence to challenge it seems.
And then there is Putin. He is too stubborn to admit he got it wrong. Ukraine is not resisting becauseof a tyranny of corrupt neo-nazis, but rather because millions of ordinary Ukrainians do not want anything more to do with Russian rule. Nobody in Russian government has the confidence to challenge it seems.
The human race has a structural and existential problem when two half-crazy machos are allowed to behave so madly.
“ And then there is Putin. He is too stubborn to admit he got it wrong. Ukraine is not resisting becauseof a tyranny of corrupt neo-nazis, but rather because millions of ordinary Ukrainians do not want anything more to do with Russian rule. Nobody in Russian government has the confidence to challenge it seems.”
I wouldn’t be too sure of that. Putin isn’t. He takes a food taster everywhere he goes, and I wouldn’t want to be that guy.
Acrobats, jugglers, and clowns aside, ask yourself - is the USA in a better strategic position than it was a year ago? If you aren't sure, consult a Magic 8-Ball, it's probably more reliable than your typical news sources.
Just a question - who here has actually spent any time in Ukraine? Knows actual Ukrainians in Ukraine? Had major life changes forced upon you when the tanks rolled in 2022?
No, rich. That's cartoon that's running in your head and nobody else's.
Dr Weevil said...
I can't help noticing that most of those complaining about Zelenskyy's term being extended (because elections are physically impossible) have nothing to say about Putin being in his 6th term, when the Russian constitution has a 2-term limit, and banning the one pro-peace opposition party.
LOL
He didn't just "extend his term" after he cancelled the elections.
He threw all his political opposition, oppositional media, and the priests of an entire religion in jail.
And you have to point out that Zelenksy is an installed puppet after the Maidan ran a coup in 2014 and took out the lawfully elected leader who got over 80% of the vote in the regions currently occupied by Russia.
Then after 2014 the Maidan sent the Azov battalion into those regions and killed thousands of people before Russia invaded.
Weevil is defending a bloodthirsty repressive regime that took billions of our tax dollars.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
The irony with the pro-Russians pushing for elections in Ukraine when Putin has never held a real election. It’s been well over 20 years and Putin just bans and kills all his rivals.
We are just pointing out there is no difference between Putin and Zelensky. Zelensky "won" an "election" after a coup evicted a lawfully elected leader and the Azov were occupying the regions that voted for Yanukovich.
It is not complicated. Trump is betraying Ukraine or the Russians would have withdrawn by now.Trump keeps delivering hope to Putin.
Peace being the obvious replacement for "hope."
Trump's motivation for continuing with his support to Putin is hidden away like the files. Nobody in the US government has the confidence to challenge it seems.
This retard still believes the in Russian Collusion Hoax.
And then there is Putin. He is too stubborn to admit he got it wrong. Ukraine is not resisting becauseof a tyranny of corrupt neo-nazis, but rather because millions of ordinary Ukrainians do not want anything more to do with Russian rule. Nobody in Russian government has the confidence to challenge it seems.
What did Putin get wrong? He was wrong about the ability of his army to take Kyiv. The corruption of his regime will be its undoing.
He was right about a bunch of warmongering Neocons who want to invade Moscow and installed their corrupt Maidan puppet regime to make it happen though.
I doubt anything will come from these talks. Zelensky doesn't care about Ukraine and the Ukranian people either cant or wont do anything to topple him. Millions have fled Ukraine. Others are just subjects of a Dictatorship - complete with secret police, and a useless fake "Parliment".
Its the same ol' story you can see throughout history. A lost war that just drags on and on. Those who wanted to fight for Ukraine are dead or disabled. And those who dont are hiding from the draft hoping the "Zelensky Gang" puts someone else in the Army bus. Or they've bribed the right people and got a deferement.
Even mass surrenders at the front are out of the question since any soldier that raises a white flag is killed by a UFA drone.
All thats missing is the Commissars and Red Army blocking detachments.
Whats saving Zelensky right now are the mass numbers of drones - mostly supplied by the NATO countries. The drones negate the Russian superiority in tanks and planes. And Putin has decided not to draft large numbers of Russians to make up for that.
Eventually the Ukrainians will simply run out of men. Willing or not. And once the front cracks up the end will come soon. A useless war that has destroyed the Ukraine.
Of course when the war is over, Zelensky and his corrupt cronies who have skimmed off millions (if not billion$) will simply leave for Israel, the USA, or the South of france. Like Trotsky he will leave a trail of ruin but live out the rest of his life abroad in luxury. Unlike Trotsky, there will be no Stalin to liquidate him.
Yanukovych clearly did want to keep Ukraine out of NATO. Whether those who deposed him did is another story. As is whether NATO and the US ever gave up on the plan to bring Ukraine into NATO.
There may have been great patriotic enthusiasm in Ukraine when Putin first invaded. Is it still there? It seems like the war just drags on because there's an endless supply of weapons and the politicians' will to use them.
Only three Arab states signed the Abraham Accords. Attempts to get more to sign on failed. None of those three countries was or had been at war with Israel. The reason such accords weren't achieved earlier is that previous administrations and diplomats weren't trying to cut the Palestinian question entirely out of negotiations. That's what the Abraham Accords sought to do.
Now we're seeing that they weren't what they were built up to be. Just this month Saudi Arabia and 7 other Arab and Muslim countries have reaffirmed that peace agreements with Israel won't go forward without a Palestinian state and that attempts to remove the Gaza population won't meet with their approval. The effect of the Abraham Accords was to reassure Netanyahu that he had a free hand in the region, not to bring it closer to peace.
Rcocean - If you were following this war with any degree of seriousness you would know that "the Ukraine" (a tell) manufactures almost all the drones it uses.
And why would Israel take in Ukraine's leadership who, according to your buddy Putin, are all genuine Nazis?
You are a proud antisemitic who has a hard-on for Putin, Khamenei, Jong Un, and Xi. It's fall - time to find a rock to crawl under for the winter.
I guess Putin doesn't trust Wikipedia. You can't blame him.
"Achilles" (is his subconscious telling us he knows he's a heel?) and RC OCEAN II just can't stop lying about Ukraine. Example (7:14am):
"And you have to point out that Zelenksy [sic] is an installed puppet after the Maidan ran a coup in 2014 and took out the lawfully elected leader who got over 80% of the vote in the regions currently occupied by Russia."
The Maidan Revolution was not a coup. Yanukovych was not removed by force. He ran away to Russia after he realized that everyone in Ukraine hated him, and was duly impeached and removed from office by Parliament, with the votes of his own party. Everyone hated him because he was thug and a thief, who stole billions from businesses, a murderer, whose police shot 100+ peaceful demonstrators in the street, and a traitor, who betrayed the people for Putin and fled to Russia, where an ordinary corrupt dictator like Baby Doc Duvalier would take his billions to the South of France.
More telling of Achilles' dishonesty or incompetence (why not both?): Zelenskyy (note spelling) did not succeed Yanukovych! There was another guy in between! After a few months of a caretaker government, elections were held in 2014, in which Poroshenko was elected. (Dobkin, the candidate of Yanukovych's Party of Regions, came in 6th with 3.07%.) Poroshenko served a full term (2014-2019), ran for reelection, and was defeated in a free and fair election by Zelenskyy, by nearly a 2-1 margin in the runoff. The only oblast Poroshenko won was in the far west, and Zelenskyy ran strongest in the east, exactly where Yanukovych was strongest. Why doesn't Achilles mention that? Because he's (knowingly or unknowingly) repeating Putinite propaganda.
Everything else he says is equally false, but of course it takes ten times more effort to correct a lie than to tell it in the first place. Besides, I've refuted his other lies many times before, but he and his friends keep repeating them.
As for RC OCEAN II, it's obvious that he hates Ukraine for electing a Jew. The fact that Ukraine is one of the few countries in Europe where synagogues don't need armed guards is quite significant. And it's not because there are no Muslims in Ukraine: there are lots of Crimean Tatars, but they dont' hate Jews, they only hate Russians, for deporting most of them to far-away Tatarstan, and stealing Crimea from those who managed to stay behind.
Not too long ago, Ukraine was the first and only country in the world with a Jewish head of state and a Muslim defense minister, though I believe Umerov has since moved to another position.
Every Rosh Hashana, tens of thousands of Hasidic Jews make a pilgrimage to Uman (halfway between Kyiv and Odesa) to visit the tomb of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov. The town is only 0.21% Jewish, but they're made very welcome. Again, the claim (made by Achilles) that Ukraine suppresses any religion is a Putinite lie. The Russian Orthodox Church is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Russian state, and Patriarch Kirill has been a KGB (or whatever they call themselves) agent since the 1970s. Members have been arrested for treason, but not for anything to do with religion.
I'm just an American, looking at Ukraine through American eyes. And obviously, many on this thread aren't.
I'm an American, who actually pays attention to what's going on in Ukraine, instead of passing on transparent propaganda after running it through a filter of gross Jew-hate.
More RC OCEAN II lies (7:41am):
"Even mass surrenders at the front are out of the question since any soldier that raises a white flag is killed by a UFA drone.
"All thats missing is the Commissars and Red Army blocking detachments."
The only army in Ukraine that kills their own soldiers with drones if they're trying to surrender is the Russian army, and they also have blocking detachments. Russians have bitterly complained on social media that Kadyrov's Chechens never fight Ukrainians, they just hang around behind the lines waiting to shoot any Russian who looks like he's trying to retreat.
As usual, bigoty RC reverses the facts shamelessly.
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