Meeropol = Ivy Meeropol, the documentarian who made a movie about the man, Roy Cohn, who "helped to send her grandparents, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, to the electric chair, leaving her father orphaned at the age of ten." Now, Meeropol has a movie about E. Jean Carroll.
A few days ago, Carroll finally received the $5.6 million she won in her lawsuit against Trump, and Meeropol said: "This historic moment shows that our legal system — established almost 250 years ago to serve as a check against absolute power — still works. E Jean used to sign off from her television show in the mid-Nineties saying, 'Fate loves the fearless,' and it couldn’t be more appropriate today...."
Much has been made of the fact that Carroll is not a perfect MeToo victim. A high-school beauty queen, cheerleader and divorcee from Montana, she came to New York City in her early thirties, dated the gonzo journalist Hunter S Thompson and landed gigs as a contributing editor for Esquire and Playboy. “She used her abilities to be like one of the boys, which can also backfire,” Meeropol says. “She got a television show from Roger Ailes,” she adds, referring to the Fox News chief executive who was ousted from the network amid sexual harassment claims. “She was really friendly with him. She would try to turn tables: ‘Roger, give me a twirl!’”
At Elle, where Carroll was a relationship and sex columnist, she dished out tough-love “boys will be boys” advice and brushed off women who accused powerful men of harassment, including the Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas. On an episode of the Eighties talk show Geraldo!, Carroll is “seen saying [the accuser] Anita Hill should have just told Thomas to shut up”, Meeropol says. “Or that [the accuser] Paula Jones should have just told Bill Clinton to leave her alone.”
Now, looking back at her experience at Bergdorfs, Carroll feels guilt, she says. “E Jean is still blaming herself for not recognising that this is where it was headed with Trump,” Meeropol says. “This is the problem: women think the onus is on them to know. We’re too flirtatious, having too much fun or we’re giving an indication we want this.”
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Kind of sucks for Ethel, since she was barely involved in the actual spying. But both decided not to cooperate with the government (because they "were innocent"). The spies who cooperated, got relatively lenient sentences. These two jokers were stubborn and got death!
“Much has been made of the fact that Carroll provided no evidence beyond her own hearsay”. Is a corrected statement.
For the progressives… Yes, the evidence used against Platner is also hearsay, and please let us know when his story gets tried in court, and the judicial system lets the hearsay stand.
#MeToo with benefits was a milestone in social progress of liberal lean-tos.
Revenge, not justice. Sounds about right coming from someone from a family of traitors.
1. Those Commie spy grandparents deserved the electric chair. This Ivy loves the jury system in the E. Jean Carroll case, she should agree with the jury in her grandparents' case.
What the connection between Trump and Cohen is thin.
2. And let's talk about due process. NY passed a bill of attainder law to roll back the statute of limitations so that Carroll could sue Trump.
“These two jokers were stubborn and got death!”
And deserved it.
**Leland said...
“Much has been made of the fact that Carroll provided no evidence beyond her own hearsay”. Is a corrected statement.
For the progressives… Yes, the evidence used against Platner is also hearsay.**
Hearsay is the evidence of people who weren't there but heard something about it from someone who claimed to have been there. First-hand (witness) testimony is not hearsay.
"We’re too flirtatious, having too much fun or we’re giving an indication we want this.”
"Honk if you think rape is sexy!" - Carroll
Can't all reasonable, rational and intelligent people now agree that TDS is the most serious mental health problem the US has ever seen?
Donald Trump bragged of grabbing women by the pussy, walked in on undressed Miss Teen USA contestants, was found liable for sexual assaulting E. Jean Carroll, and was convicted of hiding payoffs to a porn star. Here's why the Epstein allegations are fake. ~ MAGA
Trump couldn’t distinguish between a photo of Carrol and a photo of his wife. He is instantly certain it is Ivanna. Also, “not his type.”
If Trump and the White House is still describing the (vindicated) claim as a hoax, isn’t that a fresh defamation and grounds for another lawsuit? I suspect it’s not about the money, it’s about the messaging to the cult and the Fox News crowd. They will hear and believe whatever comes from the White House. Dear Leader can do no wrong.
"...Yes, the evidence used against Platner is also hearsay,..."
Well.. yes, but in his case, the evidence was apparently corroborated by friends of the victims, who had spoken about the experience in the days following the events, some years ago. As opposed to being perceived as imaginary, since neither the day, nor the time, nor the year, could be recalled by the so-called victim.
So Carroll was 'one of the boys', huh? Gloated about taking trophies and so on? Interesting.
I have never believed E. Jean Carroll. The judge in that case needs to be defrocked and disbarred.
Lying about a rape is the duty of corrupt vengeful leftists everywhere.
If someone raped me at Bergdorf Goodman - I'd call the police and report it.
Men don't hang out at department stores.
the whole point of the civil trial was for money.
A criminal Trial would not hold up. Even in leftist NY.
The real criminal is E Jean - the liar.
Extortion thru lies is the mob left's idea of a plan.
The evil Marxist liar leftwing Soviet collective killed Charlie Kirk.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"Donald Trump bragged of grabbing women by the pussy"
No. He said they would let you do that.
Now release the Epstein files.
I remember watching a prank a young woman played on her Trump-supporting parents.
One evening, she told them she'd been seeing someone and that the relationship had become serious. She said they were even talking about getting engaged. Her parents were delighted and began sharing in her excitement.
Then she paused and said there was something they needed to know about him.
She explained that he had been accused of multiple incidents of verbal sexual misconduct, had lost his job because of those allegations, and had also been investigated over rape accusations.
The mood changed instantly. Her parents were horrified. They urged her to end the relationship immediately and couldn't believe she would even consider building a future with someone they viewed as so morally compromised.
Only then did she reveal the punchline.
"So why are you happy to vote for someone with similar allegations to become President?"
At that moment, her parents realized the whole conversation had been a setup. Unsurprisingly, their response was that "it's different."
JB writes: "Donald Trump bragged of grabbing women by the pussy" "No. He said they would let you do that."
The quote is not fabricated or taken out of context in the sense of being misattributed—it's verbatim from the recording.
In a 2005 recording from an Access Hollywood bus (released publicly in October 2016 by The Washington Post), Donald Trump is heard saying to host Billy Bush (in the context of approaching women): “I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
In the book "1984" Orwell wrote about the Two Minutes of Hate.
Today in the US, we have 24/7/365 hate of Trump.
Live by the lawsuit, die by the lawsuit. I think Jesus said that.
Ann Althouse writes "We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith." .... Or perhaps off topic as you have written in the recent past...
Any thoughts about this comment regarding policy and procedures?:
"The evil Marxist liar leftwing Soviet collective killed Charlie Kirk."
Spiros
She was in as deep as her husband. She's the one who recruited her brother to spy for the Soviets.
The Meeropol boys and their progeny deserve no sympathy. 40 years ago when I was a student in Madison, they made the rounds arguing that their parents were on the right side of justice because you see, the Russians deserved to have nukes and their parents helped enable it. It's the same shitty red diaper tripe that's been around forever.
A bawdy professional writer about men, women and sex who didn't write anything down contemporaneously about the life-changing incident such that she could identify the year it happened?
For me Juneteenth is always Ethel and Julius Rosenberg Day. I usually eat fried chicken.
Funny how the article says little about leftwing Billionaire Reid Hoffman who helped finance E. Jean Carroll's civil lawsuits against Donald Trump through his nonprofit organization, American Future Republic
Begley,
You may have forgotten the hate expressed towards Nixon, Ford, Reagan and the Bushes. TDS is just a slightly more extreme version of the usual gas lighting.
The Soviet left will always be the Soviet left.
Hoffman was a big visitor to Epstein's Island. So his financing of E. Carroll's suit had zero to do with his distate for rape by powerful men. As usual with the Liberal elite its all about destroying your "enemies" and helping your friends.
“Much has been made of the fact that Carroll is not a perfect MeToo victim.”
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL…
"Her communist grand-parents who were convicted of Treason". Funny how that sentence is missing. Nope their just plain ol' julius and ethel. Can you imagine a film maker with neo-nazi grandparents executed for treason and the MSM not briging that up?
TinyEE®… pussy…
With time, it looks more and more like major figures in the hatred of Nixon and Reagan were "red diaper babies." Now that tradition continues with the Communists' grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
Allow me to demonstrate the proper use of apologetic gymnastics: E. Jean Carroll is a lying liar and it never happened, but if it did Trump is a badass and Carroll deserved it.
Boomer women going full retard was not on my bingo card
Also....sprach E Jean Carrol among many pussies grabbed by Trump...
Why won't more women grab chance for payouts from new law?
Epstein files have been released.
Why do leftists keep lying about that?
Then the braying progressed and #MeToo et al were aborted.. The first rule of Democratic social cult...
sometimes lawfare lets you win the lottery…
No evidence and overwhelming evidence are celebrated as left-wing facilities of conspiracy. #BabyLivesMatter
Addendum to my comment at 8:57. No intelligent person ever believed Anita Hill, either.
The idea that this was a "check against absolute power" is about as braindead as you can get without being put in hole and covered with dirt.
If you say you believe Carrol, you are either a useful idiot or a liar. You would never believe her if the charge was against a Democrat, and you know that, unless you are the idiot.
Coming in a bit late on this one, but neither the E. Jean stuff or the Platner accuser's stuff are hearsay. Each of the women are describing things that (they say) happened to them. Both are percipient witnesses reporting on their direct observations.
You can question whether either of them are being honest, which is where things like telling of the events to someone at or around the time that it happened, reporting it to the police, getting medically checked, etc., come into play.
The damage done by the Rosenbergs is so extensive, it can't even be calculated, and it's still ongoing.
Refusing to say what year it happened and being caught lying about crucial details, should stop any juror cold. At that point, you know what you are really doing, and it's not justice.
What is this divorcee from Montana stuff?
Wiki says: Elizabeth Jean Carroll was born on December 12, 1943,] in Detroit, Michigan. Her father, Thomas F. Carroll Jr., was a furniture store manager, and her mother, Betty (née McKinney) Carroll, was a Republican politician in Allen County, Indiana. Carroll was raised in Fort Wayne, Indiana, with two sisters and a brother; as a child, she was called "Betty Jean", "Jeannie," and "Betty". She attended Indiana University Bloomington. A Pi Beta Phi and a cheerleader, she was crowned Miss Indiana University in 1963, and in 1964, as a representative of the university, she won the Miss Cheerleader USA title.
It's obvious to me that E. Jean's story was a complete fabrication, possibly taken from a "Law and Order" episode. If she did ever have any dressing room encounter at Bergdorf's with anyone, why assume it wasn't wholly consensual? I hope she doesn't sue me.
The article mentions Ivy Meeropol's time at Camp Kinderhook. This may have been Camp Kinderland, a once famous Communist summer camp. It's unclear, though, and AI doesn't make it any clearer. In any event, showing a film about the trial and execution of the Rosenbergs doesn't seem like a usual summer camp activity.
One time I was on a jury for an auto accident. An illegal alien ran into a young lady in a parking lot. She had all her documents and insurance. He had none. Everybody accepted that it was his fault. He ran into the back of her and was speeding. The jury eventually made her insurance pay him, because many simply felt the insurance company has money and he doesn't, and nobody likes insurance companies. That was the entire justification. The facts were irrelevant.
Be honest--who among us doesn't enjoy taking revenge?
Which is not to say that Jukius and Ethel shouldn't have fried, of course. One might say that their executions were a form of well-deserved revenge.
US is filled with really stupid emotionally driven propagandized idiots.
She will love revenge until Trump gets it…
Millions of Anita Hills and E. Jean Carrols are why we can't have nice things like liberty and truth.
“Much has been made of the fact that Carroll is not a perfect MeToo victim.” She IS a perfect victim just as Christine Blakey Ford was a perfect victim. Their “victimhood” speaks reams about left-wing corruption and the willingness of rank and file Democrats to embrace it.
I did not follow the case and know little about it, but I suspect the jury was not impressed that Trump did not attend the trial personally.
Julius, not Jukius.
Convicted Felon and Adjudicated Rapist. To think we still haven’t even seen the full Epstein files.
11:01: “Christine Blasey Ford.”
“The facts were irrelevant”
…sounds like my service. Two drunk guys one crossing the street one in a car. No contributory negligence, totally the driver’s fault because the pedestrian drunk’s mom cried in the witness stand. They somehow wanted to give money to the mom, too…
I’m a fan of ‘loser pays’ in payday hunting cases…
It was such a flagrant abuse of justice that it helped to energize Trump's supporters. Meerepol's machinations were more of a help than a hindrance to Trump's re-election........At this late date, she doesn't have any second thoughts about her grandparents' loyalty to one of history's greatest tyrants? I suspect that she is critical of southerners who are loyal to the memory of Robert E. Lee and The Lost Cause and thinks that she is on a far higher moral plane than they.
Justice is revenge carried by truth. Without truth you just have another crime. I hope karma is following Carrol.
Well, although Trump had to shell out 5.6 million to E. Jean, he's multiple BILLIONS ahead since he became President. The art of the deal.
IEE (11:02): Oh look. A real life confirmation of my assertion at 11:01 about Democrats embracing “left-wing corruption” - and on a law blog too. Of course, proof is routine and doesn’t provide a remedy or any real solace.
The propaganda of the deed. Julius was going to fry no matter what, but Ethel could have gotten off with a fairly light sentence if she had admitted guilt. She wanted martyrdom. She died a liar and condemned her children and now her grandchildren to honor that lie. I wonder who can claim possession of the Lenin Prize that her grandparents were awarded by Stalin. It would make a striking wall decoration.
There was a Congressional hearing this week on billions of dollars in fraud being discovered across the country. Things we all know are happening and that are resulting in hundreds of convictions. First hand testimony.
Not a single Democrat attended.
We all know what's happening. Even those here trying to obfuscate. How do we get millions of supposedly decent Americans to care enough to demand reform? They are being robbed like the rest of us, but they care more about tribal dances that protect the thieves robbing them.
Look how the Left keeps feeding the myths built around their heroes and martyrs, the documentarians of their treasonous history, now featured in another lovely NYT tonguebath for furthering another mythmaking heroine and martyr. Remember the Rosenbergs! (Except around the DSA fellow travelers.) Praise be E Jean Carroll! (But do keep quiet about Reed Hoffman financing her suit because she said under oath that she had no assistance paying her lawyers.)
The same “news” paper that sends inconvenient facts down the memory hole and refuses articles about Global Warming skepticism is truly dedicated to writing the first draft of progressive history every day.
You can draw a line from the Rosenberg's treasonous efforts to deliver nuclear weapon technology to the USSR to Trump's current efforts to curtail Iran's nuclear ambitions.
Carroll sued Trump for rape (for which there is a private right of action in New York) and the jury found for the defense, based on the preponderance of evidence.
Yet one never hears or reads that she falsely claimed rape.
Why not?
Bagoh at 11:28 brings up an interesting point. In fact a pattern is developing where independent journalists, never the corporate media, uncover obvious blatant fraud of which the “Learing Center sign is an instant icon. Then the local Democrats first defend the perps unquestioningly followed by zero local or state investigations. CA even passed laws outlawing reporting on this issue.
Then deliberative bodies, Congress and the CA and MN legislatures so far, convene hearings on said fraud that is amply supported by facts, and carries the cool electoral benefit of potential taxpayer dollars being saved or redirected to less fraudulent citizens, but democrats boycott the hearings and exhibit only outright hostility to the idea of investigating welfare fraud.
All my adult life the federal GAO has consistently estimated that at least 25 probably 30 and up to 50 per cent of transfer payments are incorrect due to (the classic trio of) “waste, fraud and abuse.” Their own accounting. D and R admins alike. Year after year.
Now we have an opportunity to find and stop wasting trillions. And there’s no bipartisan going on. And the NYT don’t care.
Bagoh - Indeed.
I just jump ahead and keep saying - the Democrat party is 100% corrupt. Only cultists and lie-buying a-holes continue to support.
Hey kids REVENGE is cool again. NYT said so.
Whether it's Donald Trump giving $5 million to a woman he raped or Joe Biden giving a $10 to a cashier for a pint of Jeni's, both candidates have had some unusual expenditures.
“Carroll sued Trump for rape (for which there is a private right of action in New York) and the jury found for the defense, based on the preponderance of evidence.”
No, that's not accurate. The jury found for E. Jean Carroll (the plaintiff), not the defense. Trump was held civilly liable on the core claims.
As far as I know, there's no statute of limitations on things that never happened.
"Carroll is not a perfect MeToo victim." Understatement if the era. Alas, Mouse House gonna get some upgrades.
The award of damages ought to be limited to the total net worth of the jurors voting for payment.
"Leland said...
'Much has been made of the fact that Carroll provided no evidence beyond her own hearsay'. Is a corrected statement..."
Hey Althouse; you want to take that one on? Carroll, the plaintiff/victim, describing under oath and in court her own assault-victimizatoin as an eyewitness... is "hearsay"?
As a trial lawyer myself, I see "hearsay" being routinely weaponized by laypersons as shorthand for any evidence question or indeed any legal theory or cause of action that they find lacking in quality.
For you, as critic of legal writing, and popular writing, and popular culture, and as a legal academic, this casual misuse of "hearsay" must be particularly annoying.
Did you ever teach evidence? I am guessing the answer is yes.
That bolded catchphrase, 'Fate loves the fearless,' applies to Trump IMO. I think he shares that with our first President (from back when standard newswriting convention was to capitalize President when referring to our chief executive). Being a country of diverse opinions yours may differ.
The Rosenberg Prayer
That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. (Their were other spies as well)
And if it was, that’s not a big deal. (The US shouldn't be the only one with atomic bombs)
And if it is, that’s not my fault. (We should have shared that info with the Soviets)
And if it was, I didn’t mean it. (We only had the best intentions)
And if I did, you deserved it. (You evil capitalist Americans!)
Kudos to J Scott for The Rosenberg Prayer. Did you author it?
The rest of us understand that *other than her own testimony * e jean carroll offered NO EVIDENCE and that even her self-serving half-remembrances did NOT include facts like dates times corroborating witnesses etc. So don’t go donnish and didactic on the lay people of this fine comment section. Attribute any quotes to hearsay.
Let us not forget that initially, Carroll presented witnesses that she stated would corroborate her story as having discussed the assault event at the time of its occurrence. But when facing the penalty of perjury, testifying under oath, those so-called witnesses backed away and refused to testify.
@Ampersand, I only added the stuff in paranthesis. I've heard the Rosenberg excuses for decades at this point. It's a reliable indicator to ignore people if they say the Rosenbergs were innocent.
5 million for what, no evidence, just hate.
Shorter Rosenberg Prayer: It never happened but if it did it was fuckin awesome!
Through the looking glass offers a glimpse into the sordid affairs of handmade tales conceived for leverage, profit, and "burden" relief. Demos-cracy is aborted in darkness.
I would have to go back and see for sure- but what I read was that the lying liar E. Jean Carroll sued Trump for defamation, saying he accused her of lying about being raped. Making it a civil suit. So he was found liable of defaming her. Guilt and innocence really don't have much play in civil suits, it's liability. Good word for it, since the lying liar apparently has a good lying ability...
And she did at one point offer evidence- which I'm pretty sure wasn't admitted into evidence at the trial. Because after she showed the dress she was supposedly either wearing or buying that day she cannot recall, apparently it was identified by fashionistas as not having existed back far enough to be the dress. Oooops! Trump' lawyers were likely not allowed to bring that up to impeach her "testimony".
So no witnesses, no corroboration from the time, no possible defense such as "My records show I was elsewhere on that day.", which Trump had, it was a classic "he said/she said" where the she was obviously lying, but the jurors - AND THE JUDGE- were biased against the "he" and wanted to hold him accountable for something since everything else had failed.
E Jean, friend of the show, I wish her well.
Tim, I do appreciate the correction and understand your statement. I'll just add two more statements: E Jean Carroll could never provide when she was at the event, so that it could be proven her evidence was first-hand. Therefore, the hearsay evidence of the witnesses that got their information from her was used to corroborate E Jean Carroll's testimony.
I'll say it again, the idea that Trump could saunter into a high-end department store - in New York City, no less - and 'rape' somebody in a dressing room is bullshit of the highest order.
It simply did not happen.
Meerpool should change her name to Rosenberg. But she’s a coward.
AI explains:
"A New York jury found Donald Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation against writer E. Jean Carroll in" 2023, awarding her $5 million. While the jury did not find him liable for forcible rape, he was held liable for sexual abuse. Trump ultimately paid Carroll $5.6 million following appeals."
I think the point Lucien was making was that the fact that the jury didn't believe Carroll's claim of rape has been ignored by her supporters.
It is true that "hearsay" is not the correct term to describe testimony describing things that never happened. There are other words better for that.
If the jury didn't believe the claim of rape, how can any of the rest leading to payment follow?
The old traitors help the new traitors. Perhaps we should have executed all the Rosenbergs.
bagoh2O:
I would have argued that calling someone who made a false rape claim a liar couldn’t have caused much damage to her reputation, but I wasn’t involved.
Hearsay, simplified, is an out of court statement, offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted. For example, when Cassidy Hutchinson testified about what someone told her had happened inside the President’s car on January 6, 2021 that was inadmissible hearsay if offered to prove what actually happened.
Justice, nor truth under oath was involved in that so-called trial. It's quite a stretch, just like that abominable so-called trial, to claim it represented the epitome of 250 years of a justice system. It's one of the reasons why I refuse to serve for jury duty. That 250 year history of jurisprudence has been fatally injured by Democrats and their judicial acolytes. I want no part of it.
I wish E. Jean knew what year she was fantasizing about.
Meeropol is an unrepentant commie. The Rosenbergs deserved hanging -- both of them. They could have murdered millions with their spying. No adult women brings any stranger into a dressing room in the staffed dressing rooms of Bergoffs' to model lingerie. That's what only a slut looking for a payday in expensive undies does. It's a grotesque insult to rape-rape victims. I'd punch that lying slag in the face. Maybe she could paint a sad little blue rock about it.
"Much has been made of the fact that Carroll is not a perfect MeToo victim."
Perfect enough to get $5.6MM.
"chickelit," I was in Madison even before you. More than SIXTY years ago - 1965-2010. I remember the Committee to Reopen the Rosenberg Case chapter here, sometime in the 1970s. At the time believed it had a point, and I helped it out a bit. It inspired Ron Radosh to write his book about the case, during which he came to the conclusion contrary to what he expected that Julius at least was guilty as charged. Pretty sure Ethel was up to her knees in it as well. My take on the Meeropol boys was they were a mess. Here their parents willfully orphaned them in order to protect those who helped Joe Stalin get nukes years ahead of time. And yet, these two sons helped the left make heroic martyrs of their parent-betrayers. Further irony: The hoopla made about the Rosenbergs as Jewish victims helped the left here obscure and divert attention from Stalin's actual and then underway antisemitic witch hunt. The true witch hunt of the 1950s.
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