"... in the most hateful and despicable way possible. For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now.... Radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives. Tonight, I ask all Americans to commit themselves to the American values for which Charlie Kirk lived and died — the values of free speech, citizenship, the rule of law, and the patriotic devotion and love of God.... Today, because of this heinous act, Charlie's voice has become bigger and grander than ever before, and it's not even close...."
My attention was called to that by this Maggie Haberman piece in the NYT: "At the White House, Trump’s Grief and Shock Turn to Rage Over Charlie Kirk/President Trump asked for updates and met with advisers in the Oval Office before recording a four-minute video in which he blamed rhetoric from the 'radical left' for the killing."
The headline prompts us to question Trump's basis for purporting to know what motivated the killer. Maybe we ought to wait until we learn more, and maybe the hateful rhetoric is coming from both sides, and maybe there are leftwing targets of violence. I'm imagining those on the left scurrying to prevent Trump and his allies from controlling the narrative.
I wrote that last paragraph based on the headline and drawing on my own expectations. Then I read the article and did not find what I'd thought I'd find. It is more of a straightforward description of the scene at the White House yesterday. We're told "the corridors... were quiet, as staff there absorbed news," and "Televisions affixed to walls in different rooms blared minute-to-minute coverage.... Some staff members appeared to have been crying."
The last sentence of the article makes me jerk my head to check the calendar icon in the sidebar of my computer: "The president was still on track for a visit to New York on the anniversary of the last significant event to unite nearly all Americans across parties: the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks."
It's a very somber day, not a day to strain to find a way to advantage your side. And yet, there is Trump in that video, forthrightly blaming the radical left. He didn't take a day or 2 off for reflection and what either is or looks like prayer. And that's a temptation to all on the left and all those pumping for Democrats to assert that the right is also responsible for the violence. Yield to that temptation and you might be the next Matthew Dowd.
See "Matthew Dowd Fired From MSNBC for Charlie Kirk Comments" (Variety). What Dowd said, probably feeling this was measured, accurate, and smart: "[Charlie Kirk] is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that is the environment we are in. You can’t stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions to take place. And that’s the unfortunate environment we are in."
পোস্টগুলি
২৩১টি মন্তব্য:
231 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»Tell me more about what a huge win it is that we've normalized the word 'retard' again...
Speech is the domestication of violence.
classicalliberty
@jsolom100
·
13h
Killing Charlie Kirk for accusing them of being violent is a terrible way for the Left to convince the world it isn’t violent
Tell me more about what a huge win it is that we've normalized the word 'retard' again...
Sarcasm is the first trope teens learn. Just say the opposite of something, and you don't have to figure out what the something is. Something's wrong and you have to figure it out, is the claim. Women use it. They don't know what's wrong either. Just something.
Now do Gov. Pritzker's comments on the shooting, in which he asserts that political violence has been increasing but then references only the shootings in Minnesota - completely omits the multiple assassination attempts on Trump - and then blames it entirely on Trump's evil rhetoric and the January 6th "rioters" who are "fomenting" the violence. As one commenter elsewhere noted, it boiled down to "stop making us kill you." Did Maggie Haberman comment on that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlg0-KkuaWM
You're really grasping at straws there Pegleg. Which side routinely calls their opponents (enemies?) Nazis? The hate and bile emanates largely from the left. Retard is pretty benign, as well as being descriptive.
Also, someone just got shot dead for speaking politely with those on the left about politics. Is rage somehow not an appropriate thing to be feeling?
Worry not. This gets worse.
If this does turn out to be an amateur rooftop sniper, I would begin to believe that somewhere, dark money is funding a recruitment and training program and we have not seen the end of this.
@Pegleg Speech must be free. You don’t have to call anyone a retard, but please, don’t act like a retard
The problem isn't speech but fiction. It's the respective world the sides want to live in and enjoy. It's a failure to analyze the place of news.
News is a business whose product is audience. It supplies fictions ("we know what is important and you don't") that the audience wants to live in, just like women reading about Liz and Richard in the tabloids long ago. It's part of their life.
Message: it's not real.
The “Everybody who disagrees with me is a bigot” stance is an incitement to murder. Same with “Everybody who disagrees with me is a Nazi.”
Trump politicizes Kirk murder in four-minute video.
Whether it’s Republican politicians joking about the murder of Melissa Hortman or Democratic politicians expressing their condolences after the murder of Charlie Kirk, both parties have an extreme rhetoric problem.
The FBI right now could probably use all those experienced senior career professionals with decades of investigative experience that they fired for absolutely no reason.
The Nazi rise was based on decency and family values, for those who missed the rhetoric.
What to watch for: virtue that goes public. That's what turns into evil.
Ann, I been reading your blog on and off for many years. Seldom comment... I am from Northern Wisconsin and saw you as a Madison lefty and so read to try and understand your world view. You seem to be becoming more reality based the past couple of years. This morning I see the first post is based on the New York Times. Their Obit of Charlie Kirk is completely disgusting and evil. The NYT is complicit in all the violence - how can you keep using them as a source of information?
Kak - FO.
Levinas on his teacher Heidegger turning out to have been more than a common forgiveable human failing Nazi
It is impossible to be stinting in our admiration for the intellectual vigor of ``Sein und Zeit,'' particularly in light of the immense output this extraordinary book of 1927 inspired. Its supreme steadfastness will mark it forever. Can we be assured, however, that there was never any echo of Evil in it? The diabolical is not limited to the wickedness popular wisdom ascribes to it and whose malice, based on guile, is familiar and predictable in an adult culture. The diabolical is endowed with intelligence and enters where it will. To reject it, it is first necessary to refute it. Intellectual effort is needed to recognize it. Who can boast of having done so? Say what you will, the diabolical gives food for thought.
“It was granted me to carry away from my prison years on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good. In the intoxication of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel. In the surfeit of power I was a murderer, and an oppressor. In my most evil moments I was convinced that I was doing good, and I was well supplied with systematic arguments. And it was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself the first stirrings of good. Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either—but right through every human heart—and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained. And even in the best of all hearts, there remains … an unuprooted small corner of evil.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Apparently the staff at TMZ were caught in a hot-mic moment cheering at the news that Charlie Kirk had died. The left is incapable of understanding that assassinating Charlie was morally wrong. But, they will eventually understand that it was a tactical and strategic disaster for them.
“Trump politicizes Kirk murder in four-minute video.”
This was a political assassination. Kirk’s political mission was confronting suppression of political speech on campus. This Kak guy is almost as dense as Inga. Equally malicious.
"It's not improbable that Kirk was targeted because of his political views."
It's impossible that he wasn't.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the concept of "hate speech" is inane propaganda. It only became a legal thing circa the early 1990s GHW Bush and Bill Clinton era.
1. There is no way to distinguish between "hate speech" and the disjointed ramblings of mental illness. As such, insane criminals are prosecuted twice merely for being insane.
2. Hate is not a crime and can never be a crime. Hate is an internal state and may never be expressed or be known to others. If hatred was a crime, half of the jilted lovers and exes in the country would be in prison. This would disproportionately affect women... ;-)
3. Voicing criticism of your enemies (e.g., by race, sex, party, etc.) is simple speech. Unless speech is paired with action it means nothing. Speech doesn't kill people, rather, knives, fists, garrotes, and baseball bats kill people. Partisan political bickering is not hate, as perceptions of right versus wrong vary greatly.
I hate Mondays.
@RideSpaceMountain
Paraphrasing something I saw elsewhere, whether or not the left is responsible for Charlie's assassination, they sure are enthused about it.
The both sides stuff is reprehensible. We know the motivation. Again- I reject it..
While I will allow that all public figures likely inspire the attention of both deranged detractors and admirers, Ms Giffords is the only political figure who comes to my mind who was actually attacked by someone so obsessed. Of course there is the potential for an attack like the Reagan attempt by someone seeking to become infamous. Seeing how Kirk and TPUSA were regularly singled out for verbal assaults from the Left (they were included on a 'hate map' by the SPLC, among other alarmist rhetoric) it's not improbable that Kirk was targeted because of his political views.
(edited)
RSM, impossible is too strong but I agree it's the way to bet.
One of the sadder evolutions of corporate Media is that the headline is almost always misleading. Clickbait thirst is the social disease of our moment.
I was worried there would be calls of equivalence today. Didn’t take long…
If you call someone a Nazi then you must feel the need to take lethal action against them. You know this would be the outcome.
I reiterate something I said several days ago:
The enemy gets a vote.
In just the last 2 weeks we have seen their vote increasingly takes the form of knifings and rifle fire.
Their enemy gets to vote too.
I would like to point out that the people who are resorting to assassinating their political opponents are not the ones who are winning the political fight.
I can name several recent Leftist assassins easily, even with a fading ability for short term memory. But I can’t recall a verifiably right wing assassin since Eric Rudolph, who our side condemned immediately and consistently.
Fun fact: corporate media blamed the wrong guy for that too, ruined his life and introduced the term “person of interest,” which we heard from Utah authorities yesterday.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
Do we believe in Christ? Do we believe Him when he tells us that this is the way forward?
To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.
Charles Krauthammer ("Stupid vs. Evil?" by Charles Krauthammer, townhall.com. July 26, 2002)
How long do we have to keep wondering who targets conservatives for violence?
"34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."
Mathew 10
Matthew Dowd said more than simply what was listed here. No way to know for sure what he specifically said may have prompted the firing or if NBC is simply using it as an excuse now to do what they wanted to do anyway and get rid of his contract. Dowd supposedly was hired for his expertise and experience. He claimed it may have been an overly excited supporter who shot him by accident despite the lack history of supporters firing guns at all in those circumstances and ignoring how well placed the shot was. In short he said something profoundly stupid in a moment when saying nothing would have been better. Dowd was old enough to know better and didn't care for some reason.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
I can name several recent Leftist assassins easily, even with a fading ability for short term memory. But I can’t recall a verifiably right wing assassin since Eric Rudolph, who our side condemned immediately and consistently.
The both sides bullshit is part of the evil.
Everyone that takes this line in light of objective truth is part of the problem and is justifying the violence of the left. They are barbarians living in a civilized society. They don’t have the morals or ethics to live in a free high trust social contract.
There will never be peace with these people. They support Hamas because they have a similar mentality.
Their entire ideology is based on taking your stuff and killing you if you refuse.
If irony wasn’t dead I would cite it in reference to the fact that the Talking Head left consistently labeled Kirk a “hater” (as they do with Trump) and claimed he trafficked in “hate speech.” But Charlie expressed love, explicitly saying he loved his fellow Americans the way God commanded. Just the act of engaging in dialogue and rejecting the ideology of the left and the transactivists is a crime in their eyes. They hated Charlie and in the most sacred tradition of the left they projected their hatred onto Kirk and falsely accused him of racism and hatred and the “trans genocide.”
Not one corporate outlet that gives voice to these cretins actually quote Kirk. They can’t. He was invariably polite, even insisting that rowdy college students refrain from booing or insulting the lefties that line up to ask questions of Charlie. He insisted on giving both sides a voice and he changed minds, turning young people into a force for conservatism, achieving a miracle in motivating gen Z and young men especially.
His excellence and effectiveness earned him a bullet from the left. Like Trump I have no doubt.
…on that Sept 11 there wouldn’t have been debate about collective agreement to four of the five things on Trump’s list and on the fifth those who didn’t agree were loved by those who did. Today we’re invited by those who reject all of them to believe it’s all in our heads so don’t be so hasty…
The left. There are no non-radical leftists. You’re all fucking cocksuckers and must pay.
“Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation….
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.“
Book of Mormon, Ether 8
I challenge the leftists here to watch just one entire video of a Turning Point event recorded on a college campus and come back with receipts if you are going down that road. There will be no takers. You are all cowards.
A thought: “Bothsidesism” is a subset of Civility Bullshit.
Hermann Melville famously referred to John Brown as "the meteor of the war" in his poem The Portent...and it hasn't even struck yet. Bad as this is, we're still in early innings.
The nation - and the globe - is a kindling pile soaked in gasoline right now. These are but sparks. The match portends. They haven't even tried for Trump a 3rd time yet.
I remember vividly Sunni Iraq's violent reaction to dispossession from power during the surge after 30 years of uninterrupted dominance. Violence is often a resort to those who've already lost a political or cultural battle, or both, and the zeitgeist has definitely turned...yes, yes I see all the signs here.
This is an appetizer.
I always knew the left was careless about political violence, but now I’ve seen the polling and it is absolutely shocking, the percentage of people on the left who think it’s ok to kill your political opponents.
Not just radical leftists, but merely left of center—fully half think it’s ok to kill people who disagree with you politically.
No American political figure has ever been shot by a right wing perpetrator or shot at by one. PROVE ME WRONG.
"Charlie Kirk fought bad ideas with logic and cold, hard, facts. And b did so successfully. That’s why your side murdered him."
He claimed it may have been an overly excited supporter who shot him by accident
That comment, among others, had people circulating a list of MSNBC advertisers last night.
"During MSNBC’s coverage of Kirk’s shooting, anchor Katy Tur asked Dowd about “the environment in which a shooting like this happens.” '
I wonder what Katy Tur was expecting when she asked that question. Journalists rarely if ever ask open ended questions truly just wanting whatever answer they get. Especially on the talking head format on TV, journalists interview specific guests because they expect at least a general type of response. The journalists are more like story-writers trying to build a type of narrative.
Kakistocracy said...
Trump politicizes Kirk murder in four-minute video.
Whether it’s Republican politicians joking about the murder of Melissa Hortman or Democratic politicians expressing their condolences after the murder of Charlie Kirk, both parties have an extreme rhetoric problem.
The FBI right now could probably use all those experienced senior career professionals with decades of investigative experience that they fired for absolutely no reason.
Read his words.
Chuck says Kirk and Trump drove this assassin to shoot Kirk. It was their fault
Chuck says Trump firing FBI who were acting as democrat gestapo agents was also justification for shooting Kirk.
These people will never be compatible with a free high trust society. The only reason Chuck does not start shooting conservatives himself is cowardice. He will never actually condemn the shooting. It will always be couched in both sides bullshit.
If Trump wants to avert a civil war he has to start cleaning out the leftist institutions that are driving the murderous left. The teachers unions and faculty at universities and colleges are first on the list. The corporate media is second.
The definition of Sedition must be defined to supporting any ideology that supports using government to take from some people and give their wealth to others.
This evil derives from the attitude that people have to pay their “fair share.”
The left's terrorist inspiring words: Repeated daily.
"Trump is an existential threat to democracy"
"Trump is Hitler"
"Trump is a fascist"
"Trump is a King"
"Trump's supporters are fascists"
"Trump is a Nazi"
Trump's supporters are Nazis"
"Trump is a dictator and he will end our democracy"
All of those words come out of elite democrats in positions of power. That rhetoric emboldens the violent leftist cultists to act.
The Democratic party and their cultists are all assholes.
From the MSNBC watching lie-buyers and spreaders - to the evil Soros Family - to Obama and Hillary and nancy and E-Warren AND ADAM SCHITT to the bottom feeding Antifa thugs ... To John Brennan and 86-Comey
to the left's modern nazi brownshirt army.
To pure evil demons Tim Walz. and all the shadowy democratic party assassins.
Kirks murder was political - KAK-AN-Asshole.
Your corrupt party killed him. Not enough fuck yous.
This but the latest in almost 8 years of uninterrupted leftist political violence, beginning with James T. Hodgkinson.
btw- I'ts 9/11
New Yorkers:
Tomorrow is September 11th.
Here is Zohran Mamdani with Hasan "Americans deserved 9/11" Piker.
Tomorrow, don't allow Mamdani anywhere near the 9/11 Memorial, first responders, or pretend to care.
Unlike Mamdani, real New Yorkers stand with our FDNY and NYPD
I don't want any fucking democrats near 9/11 memorials. You assholes need to stay home.
The socialist are trying the pretense that Kirk’s assassination was possibly a random murder from hundreds of feet a way and that we may never know to murderers motives. It is like Biden’s claim that antifa was just an idea, while they burned neighborhoods and the media called it peaceful.
Now that you changed the ROE, please keep self identifying yourself. Don’t worry about the nom de guerre, because your IP gives you away.
Cory Comperatore was killed by a paid patsy(D).
Ever wonder why the corrupt democrat party media never talk about him?
Blows me away that Trump can’t see his rhetoric as part of the problem. Just last week his tweet about bringing war and napalm to Chicago. No violent rhetoric there. And then of course he pardons hundreds of Jan 6 hoodlums. Curious whether Kirk supported that? He seems like a decent guy.
Althouse wrote: "[Trump] didn't take a day or 2 off for reflection and what either is or looks like prayer."
Getting shot in your head probably reminded Trump that time is of the essence. When Democrats are out to murder you, it tends to focus the fucking mind.
So no, we're not going to take 2 days off while Democrats ESTABLISH THEIR PREFERRED NARRATIVE. That is how they would use that reflection time and by the time Trump got around to composing his thoughts, the entire story would be about how Trump caused this (somehow).
The media and Democrats have crossed the Rubicon. They are openly murdering our leaders - and getting away with it I might add. This murderer is still on the loose, and probably being hidden and aided by co-conspirators on the left.
Democrats are enemies of the United States of America. Their political party is a clear and present danger to the country and it is a CRIMINAL organization. We need to defeat them in battle on the battlefield, with extreme prejudice if required. Our we will lose our country to these fucking pricks.
The time for reflection is over. The time for action is upon us.
This is from a substack essay. It is discussing a comment made by Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker yesterday, and the Washington Post's Editorial board's response to that comment.
"Here’s what JB Pritzker said Wednesday about the murder of Charlie Kirk:
“It’s got to stop. And I think there are people who are fomenting it in this country. I think the president’s rhetoric often foments it. We’ve seen the January 6 rioters who clearly have tripped a new era of political violence. And the president, what did he do? He pardoned them. I mean, what kind of signal does that send to people who want to perpetrate political violence? Not a good one.”
Even the Washington Post editorial board couldn’t stomach that, writing, ”Though Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker (D) decried the violence, he couldn’t help himself from taking a dig at Trump. ‘I think the president’s rhetoric often foments it,’ he said, a disgracefully ill-timed comment."
Substack Essay
Matthew Dowd apologized for his words which were much milder than Donald Trump's hate speech.
Donald Trump has not apologized for his speech nor has he mentioned the Minnesata killings by Vance Luther Boelter of Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband, as well as the shooting of Senator John Hoffman and his wife. When arrested Boelter had a hit list naming 45 other DFL political figures.
Trump also convenienty forgets the home attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband and the firebombing of the PA Governor's residence with the family inside.
Kak
Watch this and then realize your party is 1200% evil and corrupt. by your cowardly words - you support the corruption, the violence and the intolerance. You are an antifa - KAK.
Dowd is a Bush Republican. He was Bush 43's strategist in 2004 and ran for LT Governor. IOW, he's a liberal Democrat who occasionally pretends to be a Republican.
Dowd's statement is typical liberal/left BS. You label conservative talk "hate Speech" then you say Kirk is "spreading hate'. Then when Kirk is murdered, Dowd says "Well, hate breeds hate".
Kirk was a mainstream Conservative. Dowd thinks its OK for us to be murdered.
gadfly - Tim Walz's killer killed the those people - and Trump did say something. you liar.
The corrupt pile of shit left can ASSAINATE YOU - but don't you dare get angry over it.
"What Dowd said,… "[Charlie Kirk] is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. "
I don't see the evidence for this.
You could never get conservatives to fight the whole "hate speech" scam. They fell into the trap. Now, mainstream conservatives are being murdered because supporting Trump is "hate speech".
I saw a good post on the internet:
The Democrats want Republicans to die.
The Republicans want Democrats to debate.
One side is serious. The other isn't.
All of the hate speech comes from MSNBC and the corrupt sewer left.
Not Charlie Kirk.
"Trump also convenienty forgets the home attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband."
Politely so, since Pelosi's husband was attacked by his own gay prostitute.
It's not like Charlie Kirk went over to Nancy Pelosi's house and hit her husband with a hammer, asshole.
And by the way - when is the FBI going to get around to settling the question of whether Minnesota Governor Tim Walz hired an assassin, as has been alleged by the assassin himself?
You'd think they would question the Governor. But no ...
Every leftist/ dedicated democratic should watch this.
The Truth About Charlie Kirk
gadfly said...
Matthew Dowd apologized for his words which were much milder than Donald Trump's hate speech.
Donald Trump has not apologized for his speech nor has he mentioned the Minnesata killings by Vance Luther Boelter of Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband, as well as the shooting of Senator John Hoffman and his wife. When arrested Boelter had a hit list naming 45 other DFL political figures.
Trump also convenienty forgets the home attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband and the firebombing of the PA Governor's residence with the family inside.
Read gadfly’s words.
It was OK to shoot Kirk because Trump has never apologized for a Walz appointee shooting other democrats. Trump has never apologized for a lunatic attacking Pelosi’s husband and Trump has never apologized for Muslims firebombing a Jew’s house.
gadfly is implicitly saying that this Assassination was deserved.
We will never have peace as long as these people have any hope of gaining political power.
None of gadfly's 7:07 examples were right-wing political attacks.
Althouse, you probably don’t have coworkers who emote daily screeds against “Trumpty Dumpty” or who declare “I’ll shoot the fucker myself” after unsuccessful attempts on the President’s life. But they are real. My personal theory is all of these men live with psychopathic wives who drive their husband’s opinions because when seen together that’s what comes through. Trump gives women, especially older women dangerous and violent fantasies.
Time for the fun to really begin:
“ Ki⚡️
@KiOMNIVERSE
·
2m
Charlie Kirk said it was OK for people to die to protect the Second Amendment so why are you people not OK with him dying to protect the second amendment?
@WhitneyCummings
e”
Matthew Dowd sort of thought he wouldn’t be sort of held responsible for what he sort of said by inserting the words “sort of” to attack the man who was sort of shot to death for sort of engaging in free speech.
Sort of like 9/11, when “some people” sort of “did something.”
The sniper brought a gun to a word fight. This is completely antithetical to caring about saving or supporting democracy. Anyone on the left might want to reconsider their allegiance to the “Democrat” party.
https://www.frontpagemag.com/the-left-is-a-terrorist-movement/
Shorter asshole corrupt left: WE get to harm and kill anyone who gets in our way.
Dowd(D) is an insignificant cunt.
No one will try to assassinate him.
chickelit is right.
I know non-leftists who work with leftist democratics - and that description is spot on.
"Ms Giffords is the only political figure who comes to my mind who was actually attacked by someone so obsessed."
George Wallace comes to mind. Arthur Bremer was a life loser, who craved the fame of being the assassin of a President. He was disappointed at not being to get close enough to Nixon to kill him, and for having to settle for shooting Wallace.
---- It's a very somber day, not a day to strain to find a way to advantage your side. And yet, there is Trump in that video, forthrightly blaming the radical left. He didn't take a day or 2 off for reflection and what either is or looks like prayer. And that's a temptation to all on the left and all those pumping for Democrats to assert that the right is also responsible for the violence. Yield to that temptation and you might be the next Matthew Dowd.
A confusing paragraph to read. Perhaps it is itself confused. Trump should have taken time off to reflect and pray? But he spoke "forthrightly" -- usually an adverb meaning a praiseworthy effort. Which is it?
And the left, that is overwhelmingly responsible for the shootings and other violence -- somehow what Trump said is a "temptation" to them? Leftists risk losing their jobs, like Mathrew Dowd -- who blamed the victim in no uncertain terms. Others should watch out that they don't suffer the same fate? Meanwhile, those on the right are losing their lives.
Hello? I don't get your point.
Achilles 7:20 - Yes - right.
Gadlfy is doing what all dedicated leftists are doing. Justifying an assassin.
MSNBC is a massive portion of the democrat party's terror operation.
Ms Giffords attacker did not know who Sarah Palin was.
The left lied and said it was Sarah Palin's fault.
Again - the left are liars and would have been happy to see Sarah Palin shot to death.
The headline prompts us to question Trump's basis for purporting to know what motivated the killer. Maybe we ought to wait until we learn more.....
It doesn't matter what the motive is....a man was murdered in public for no reason. Murdered. Maybe we should all just stand with our thumbs up our a@@ , and search for a way to justify murder? Make it fit the preferred narrative that the media will agree with???Wait until our "betters" tell us what to believe?
There needs to be justice (under the law) and consequences for murder....on stage or in a rail car in Charlotte. Otherwise, there is no law and the people will take justice into their own hands without the law. Is this what we want? It will be what we get if action to stop this demonizing of anyone who disagrees with the "narrative" isn't stopped.
Turning point USA.....how prophetic. This is a turning point. Which way? Who knows.
If Donald Trump really was as bad as they wish he was, the left wing loons would be at alligator Alcatraz with the illegals they love. I wish he would. Things would be more normal and safe.
This "both sides" business. I'm having a hard time remembering who is attempting to kill people of the left. All I can think of is the proud boys. Did the proud boys kill anybody while i wasn't paying attention?
@Political Junkie: Whether it’s Elon Musk joking that Paul Pelosi’s hammer-wielding attacker was a jilted gay lover or random ExTwitter posters quoting Charlie Kirk’s actual words, both sides need to tone it down.
Dylan Roof? and who else?
@Breezy: "The sniper brought a gun to a word fight"
And inadvertenly created a timely martyr that contributes to right-wing iconography. He'll be shown next to Trump's failed assassination photo forevermore.
The Catholics got a lot of political mileage from their martyrs, to include when Nero threw Christians to the lions, when the Japanese executed missionaries, etc.
Gadfly said…
“Donald Trump has not apologized for his speech nor has he mentioned…”
Go down the list. What Trump also didn’t do is blame a person’s speech to explain or even justify the violence used against that person.
This is the guy they said was spreading hate.
"random ExTwitter posters quoting Charlie Kirk’s actual words,"
Please provide me some examples of what Kirk said that was so hateful. Seriously, I want to understand this.
By Any Means Necessary
I have never heard any non-progressive say that.
It struck me yesterday how quickly the narrative was set in motion, almost before we knew anything. Within minutes, the same voices all had the same conclusion: the Left was to blame. It didn’t feel like shock, grief, or even waiting for facts — it felt like a script that had already been written and just needed an event to activate it.
It was if people were conditioned ahead of time to know who to blame no matter the circumstances, closing the door on truth before it ever has a chance to enter. Psychologists call this the primacy effect—the first explanation we hear often outweighs later corrections. It’s a culture of permanent pre-conditioning—where “who to blame” is already scripted, no matter what actually happens.
And here’s that confirmation today;
Elon Musk posted; “The Left is the party of murder.”
Laura Loomer called for the Trump administration to “shut down, defund, & prosecute every single Leftist organization,” adding, “The Left is a national security threat. They sent a trained sniper to assassinate Charlie Kirk while he was sitting next to a table of hats that said 47. More people will be murdered if the Left isn’t crushed with the power of the state,”
Katie Miller, wife of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller- “they have blood on your hands.”
Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) blame the killing on the Democrats.
Sean Davis, the CEO and co-founder of the Federalist “I hope that Trump also orders the extermination of the entire anarcho-terrorist network that has been terrorizing Christians in this nation unabated for more than a decade.” and “When Democrats lose elections they couldn’t steal, they murder the people they were unable to defeat.”
Jessie Water claimed: “Whether we want to accept it or not, they are at war with us. And what are we going to do about it? How much political violence are we going to tolerate?”
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene wrote, “They just shot Charlie Kirk.”
Andrew Tate writes: “Civil war,”
Anti-abortion activist and president of Students for Life Kristan Hawkins says “We all know the work we do to protect Life comes at a cost,” and “This is a new civil war. One that we must fight with love to restore a Culture of Life.”
Chaya Raichik, the creator of the far-right Libs of TikTok- “THIS IS WAR.”
Darryl Cooper, a far-right activist-“Martyr Made. Fascism is just the word used by freaks and degenerates when normal people realize that the Left won’t stop unless it’s forced to.”
Texas firebrand pastor Joel Webbon- “The Left will not stop until they are forced to. The Right must gain power, keep power, and wield power righteously. @realDonaldTrump, you have been appointed by Providence. You are commanded by Scripture to be a TERROR to those who do evil. Give them hell.”
William Wolfe, another Christian nationalist and a former Trump administration official- “The. Left. Must. Be. Destroyed.” In a separate tweet, he wrote, “The Democrats and the Left must be crushed. The goal for Republicans in the next ten years shouldn’t just be to win elections, but to destroy the Democrat Party entirely and salt the earth underneath it.”
Christopher Rufo- “The last time the radical Left orchestrated a wave of violence and terror, J. Edgar Hoover shut it all down within a few years, It is time, within the confines of the law, to infiltrate, disrupt, arrest, and incarcerate all of those who are responsible for this chaos.”
Congratulations,” wrote conservative activist Ryan Fournier, a co-founder of the group Students for Trump. “You have now made a radical out of me. You fuckers deserve it.”
To be clear, to be honest- WE DO NOT KNOW THE SHOOTER OR THE MOTIVE! The slow drip indoctrination you’ve endured with the spigot now wide open doesn’t change that reality.
"He was a garbage human. I wont mourn him for one second.
I feel for his family. Having your partner and your father of your children die isn't something I'd wish on anyone.
But I suspect we are at a point where things are going to have to get ugly, get messy, maybe even get violent, to change this dumpster fire of a country.
The way we have always done things "boycott companies we don't like" and "make sure to vote in the midterms!" IS NOT ENOUGH. At this point I question if we will HAVE elections.
And excuse my language, but fuck the high road. I am tired of having to be the bigger person while the other side destroys the world to line the pockets of CEOs and oligarchs.
Charlie Kirk recently said that he thought gun violence victims and mass shooter victims are a reasonable price to pay for the 2nd amendment. Fuck that guy. Ironic, isn't it?"
- Kristen Eve
A currently employed public school teacher.
Matthew Dowd's accusations about Charlie Kirk being hateful were false to begin with. Dowd showed a jaw dropping lack of self-awareness after he prefaced those accusations with speculation that Kirk was shot accidently by a supporter firing his gun in celebration.
The Right wants to make war on criminals. The Left wants to make war on people who disagree with them. Hell, a fifth-grader could see the difference. Tell me, are you smarter than a fifth-grader?
Thank you Quayle. It's important to remember the people of Noah's time were destroyed because the earth was filled with violence. People of God must continue to have love for their fellow men. That doesn't mean we excuse their wrongs, but we adjudicate without malice.
RoseAnn 6:29 said No way to know for sure what he specifically said may have prompted the firing or if NBC is simply using it as an excuse now to do what they wanted to do anyway and get rid of his contract.
MSNBC has certainly been watching the Bud-Lite fiasco and the Cracker Barrel drama. Seeing how their (already faltering) brand(s) can be destroyed by stupid and politically motivated corporate actions. Alienating their customers. Losing millions of net worth in the process.
They are probably just trying to stop the bleeding and sacrificed Dowd. Won't help, but they gotta try. 🤷♀️😉
Ronald J. Ward said...
It struck me yesterday how quickly the narrative was set in motion, almost before we knew anything. Within minutes, the same voices all had the same conclusion: the Left was to blame. It didn’t feel like shock, grief, or even waiting for facts — it felt like a script that had already been written and just needed an event to activate it.
We get it. You think Kirk deserved it and you think everyone on your list deserves to get shot too. We pick up what you are putting down brother.
Don't stop posting this stuff by the way. It is absolutely necessary that you make your intentions clear.
The "script" has been discussed for a long time. You leftists are violent people and you have a pattern of political violence. When it is pointed out you post these screeds with more political opponents who deserve it.
All you are doing right now is convincing more people I am right about you.
Keep posting more quotes from people you want to get shot please.
-A Trans-Democratic killed a bunch of little kids.
the left do not care.
-A lovely young immigrant from Ukraine is murdered brutally by democratic party universal soft on crime thug.
the left - silent or angry you noticed
-Charlie Kirk is assassinated for speaking.
the left want to talk about Paul Pelosi (harmed by someone he knows), Gretchen Whitmer fake kidnapping (manufactured by the FBI - and it never actually occurred) and Gabby Giffords.
Andy Ngo's Substack documents Antifa-trans craziness. Progressive liberal left has legitimized criminal behavior as acceptable form of performative public protest.
In 1857 the Mountain Meadows Massacre was on September 11. I believe it was largely planned on the 10th. The 2001 attacks were on the 150th anniversary of the September 11, 2001, Christiana, Pennsylvania, massacre or resistance, which in particular killed Edward Gorsuch, the father of John Wilkes Booth's friend and schoolmate Thomas Gorsuch at the Milton Academy in Baltimore County, possibly a significant motivation or excuse behind Booth assassinating Lincoln.
Go google Rachel Maddow's latest book. Book form proof
that the Democratic party is a lie based-rage-inspiring, terror recruiting operation.
Err, I meant to say September 11, 1851, Christiana ...
Achilles: You're misreading Ronald. He's implying that the assassination was a false flag operation to create a right wing martyr.
Dowd was doing what MSNBC hired and paid him to do. The people running MSNBC should fire themselves too.
There was nothing subtle or sneaky about this.
There is video of the shooter running after the shot. He was on a roof. Other people knew where he was. He escaped.
He was not alone. At least half of democrat voters would have high-fived him as he ran away given current polling.
My guess is that the shooter was out of the country by sundown yesterday. Whomever organized and paid for the hit has conspicuously avoided throwing out a patsy, so far. It appears to be a very stealthy operation leaving behind no breadcrumbs for speculation.
Early this morning, looters smashed into Chicago's Michigan Ave Louis Vuitton store, driving a truck into storefront at 3 am; having looted LV Chicago twice before earlier this summer:
https://cwbchicago.com/2025/09/crash-and-grab-crew-hits-louis-vuitton-then-wrecks-getaway-cars-7-injured.html
Escaping robbers then smashed their speeding vehicle into another vehicle at Michigan/Ohio injury, with at least 7 people severely injured (code red), and another speeding vehicle crashed on Lake Shore Drive. LV Chicago locations probably have total nearly $1 million in stolen merchandise stolen this year. There was a driveby shooting four blocks from Michigan Ave LV store earlier this summer: 24 shot, 4 dead. Michigan Ave. Rolex store was "smash and grabbed" last week; $200,000 in merchandise stolen. Michigan Ave retail has a 30% vacancy rate; city is hoping it "drops down to 25% (!!) by Christmas. These are sensational examples of a major Blue City in chaos, not even noting the routine violent street-crimes occurring every day in Chicago's downtown tourist zone. Now tell me Chicago doesn't need national guard.
"At least half of democrat voters would have high-fived him as he ran away given current polling."
Achilles, You wouldn't have a cite for the poll you reference by chance?
Howard said...
Achilles: You're misreading Ronald. He's implying that the assassination was a false flag operation to create a right wing martyr.
Just like Crooks was a registered Republican. I get that.
But it is not a real possibility and we know that "Ronald" wants everyone he quoted to get shot too.
I knew we could count on Trump to turn the temperature down.
To him, it’s a lifeline to get away from Epstein.
Kak: "Both sides need to tone it down."
Fuck off. We're coming for you people.
It always amazes me how quickly the left is to demand we tone down the rhetoric AFTER they get their assassination in under the wire.
Fuck you. The Democrats are criminals and the enemies of the United States and Donald Trump needs to declare WAR on that party, just as Abraham Lincoln did.
This isn't the first time in our country's history when a political party and its members needed to be killed.
What was that term that used to get bandied about, “moral authority?” Yeah, so maybe Trump is jumping on this a bit quick, but given that he himself was shot and we know of at least one other attempt, not to mention the lawfare and constant castigation my the media, I’m going to give the guy a bit of leeway here. I’d normally do a quiet “tut, tut” on this but for some reason, the death of Kirk hits me a bit hard. Didn’t follow the guy and was just marginally aware of Turning Point so no allegiance, but with the CEO getting taken out, and now Kirk (not to mention harkening back the the congressional baseball practice shooting), I feel like I know which side is fomenting violence and which side might get a bit of deference for calling that side out. Enough is enough.
75 million people voted for Harris out of 340 million Americans. Half of them would be 11% of the population. Achilles speculation isn't that crazy
There's a video online clearly showing the sniper-killer laying in his sniper post atop a campus building. Difficult to contrive for even a second that this long-distance shot was merely accident of exuberant fan. Dowd is disgusting guy; sad day for America.
Achillies & Howard, Just to be clear, I’ve never suggested anyone deserved what happened, nor that this was some sort of staged event. My only point was how immediate and coordinated the narrative of blame was before the readers here even knew the facts. That’s what stood out to me. It’s that you’ve been programmed to the point you can’t at least pause for facts before condemning half the country.
Kak said: ""random ExTwitter posters quoting Charlie Kirk’s actual words,"
Please provide some. I want to see examples of this hate you claim exists.
Ronald: I never said you approved of Kirk's assassination. Your post suggests that the Republican reaction was coordinated. Lots of people are on an emotional hair trigger. Just look at the comments here how nearly everyone is so emotional and vengeful. It's not like they're playing from some pre-programmed playbook. It's a human reflex.
Howard said...
My guess is that the shooter was out of the country by sundown yesterday. Whomever organized and paid for the hit has conspicuously avoided throwing out a patsy, so far. It appears to be a very stealthy operation leaving behind no breadcrumbs for speculation.
I am going to say it because that is what I do. I assign a reasonable probability that this was state sponsored.
I think the overwhelming likelihood is this was NGO sponsored and organized. The shooter was not subtle and still managed to escape despite being filmed running on a roof. It would be virtually impossible to escape in that situation alone. There were people on lookout for law enforcement and opening doors and driving vehicles.
But the zionists will benefit greatly from this event and Israel has been acting very badly over the last months. They have means and motive. They have absolutely earned a level of distrust.
"Achilles: You're misreading Ronald. He's implying that the assassination was a false flag operation to create a right wing martyr."
This is the left's answer every time.
They get it wrong - every time.
The paid patsy in Butler PA was 20 years old. that he was a "registered republican" was something easy to manufacture, and the left seized on it immediately as a way to push it all under the rug. No inquiry or curiosity about Crooks at all. Dead and buried. ( and taken out mighty fast by a sniper)
That kid was recruited by the left. He was in a Blackrock ad previously. Blackrock gives heavily to democratics and their missions.
The would-be- Mar-a-lago Trump-assassin - The left tried and failed to establish that he too was a "Registered Republican" - that lie fell apart really fast.
Thatt he vile corrupt mentally ill left would think that we would kill someone like Charlie Kirk - to make him a martyr?
Do fuck off. I think it shows how evil leftists are that they even think that.
Ron Winkleheimer said...
“I would like to point out that the people who are resorting to assassinating their political opponents are not the ones who are winning the political fight”
It’s good to highlight this, as it goes a long way to explaining the constant gnashing of teeth and flailing about. And the constant lying.
Fair point, Howard. Emotions are raw and people lash out. What struck me, though, was how uniform and immediate the reaction was from high-profile figures — politicians, media voices, influencers — all landing on the exact same culprit before we knew anything. That looks less like raw grief and more like a narrative ready to be plugged in. I don’t dismiss that folks here are reacting emotionally, but I can’t help noticing how quickly it locked into one direction.
Peachy, I’m pretty sure I acknowledged the shooting was real.
Achilles: my TDS wife's immediate reaction was it was Mossad. She also speculated that the shooter needed help to pull off the escape and perhaps the rifle was pre-placed on the roof.
I keep asking myself, realistically, how would this possibly help Democrats? It seems like the worst kind of political own-goal — creating a martyr, fueling outrage, and uniting the right. If it was orchestrated, it would make no strategic sense. That doesn’t mean we know what happened yet, but it’s hard for me to see how the Democratic Party benefits from such a tragedy.
So the official talking point has come out. It was a false flag operation meant to discredit the left.
In the absence of any facts, people naturally fill the void with their own agendas. Human nature. It's a sad day and a lot of people are in a lot of pain right now.
Can the sort of people that commit heinous acts like this even be reached? We may soon find out.
That the vile corrupt mentally ill left would think that we would kill someone like Charlie Kirk - to make him a martyr?
Do fuck off. I think it shows how evil leftists are that they even think that.
repeated for #!
See, I was right. Ronald is playing the false flag card. It's how he is coping with the possibility that this was ordered by the powers behind the DNC DAVOS cabal
Ronald J. Ward said...
Achillies & Howard, Just to be clear, I’ve never suggested anyone deserved what happened, nor that this was some sort of staged event. My only point was how immediate and coordinated the narrative of blame was before the readers here even knew the facts. That’s what stood out to me. It’s that you’ve been programmed to the point you can’t at least pause for facts before condemning half the country.
Pathetic. We remember exactly what you people did when Boelter shot those democrats. And now that we know he was extensively involved with Tim Walz none of you have corrected yourselves.
The pattern is obvious. Leftists have been publicly violent and we see the posts all over X and Blue Sky.
You clearly want everyone you quoted to get shot too. This pattern is just old. You are a dishonest scumbag and we will not have a free country with people like you around.
The worst part is that you use the very freedoms we fought for against us to push your perverted evil ideology. There are so many posts about Kirk's defense of the second amendment and the "irony" of him getting shot.
"When people stop talking, that's when you get violence. That's when civil war happens. Because you start to think the other side is so evil and they lose their humanity."
It is ironic that you shitheads shot him when he was trying to engage with you.
The Utah authorities found a rifle in a nearby wooded area they believe may be the weapon.
"But the zionists will benefit greatly from this event and Israel has been acting very badly over the last months."
How does Israel benefit from the murder of Charlie Kirk? While I haven't heard what he said specifically, I know Kirk did raise issues about Israel's war against Hamas, but I doubt it was to the level of being categorized as Anti-Zionist. Also Also the associated risk with this action seems to astronomically outweigh any possible benefit. If it was found out that Israel conducted an assassination of an American on American soil it would irreparably damage the relationship between Israel and America. Israel is already dealing with a reality of the Left in America being Anti-Zionist, why would they knowingly risk pushing the other half of America towards that camp?
some idiot shows up to blame Zionists?
Again -
The left's terrorist inspiring words: Repeated daily.
"Trump is an existential threat to democracy"
"Trump is Hitler"
"Trump is a fascist"
"Trump is a King"
"Trump's supporters are fascists"
"Trump is a Nazi"
Trump's supporters are Nazis"
"Trump is a dictator and he will end our democracy"
All of those words come out of elite democrats in positions of power. That rhetoric emboldens the violent leftist cultists to act.
We've all watched the non-stop self-absorbed riots and protests by rage-filled lunatic leftists over the years.
Just to clarify again: I am not suggesting anyone deserved what happened, nor am I claiming this was staged. My only point is how fast the narrative of blame crystallized before we had facts. That’s an observation, not a judgment, that I believe is worth reflecting on.
"some idiot shows up to blame Zionists?"
Its the JOOOOOZZZZZ!
Althouse is ignoring the elephant in the room. Why and how he got murdered is somewhat beside the point.
What is the point is how much of the left is celebrating it. What is the point is there are studies that show a significant percentage of liberals feel that it would be would be at least "somewhat justified," if Trump or Elon Musk was killed. What is the point is that Luigi Maglione is being glorified.
Assassination chic is growing on the left and celebrated on the left.
Everyone is grasping at straws like comfort food. Typical human reactions to such a heinous act.
Howard said...
Achilles: my TDS wife's immediate reaction was it was Mossad. She also speculated that the shooter needed help to pull off the escape and perhaps the rifle was pre-placed on the roof.
Rifles aren't like they used to be. They are not necessarily big and bulky anymore. I am looking at a 1000+m capable bolt action rifle you can get in several bore sizes that is 20 inches front to back and 12 inches tall depending on optic. A decent backpack could carry it but the backpack would have to be custom to keep the optic from being jostled.
The shooter clearly had people in the building he had to run through and there had to be a vehicle involved. I am hoping the silence we are hearing from law enforcement means they are doing their job. I am struck by the lack of posted license plates and witness statements and perpetrator descriptions.
"My only point is how fast the narrative of blame crystallized before we had facts."
It was a political rally. The guy targeted was a right-wing Trump supporter who leads a large political activist group and is a high profile speaker. The left has not been reticent about using violence to silence opponents. So inferring that the person who shot him with a rifle from 200 yards away is a leftist is crazy!
"but it’s hard for me to see how the Democratic Party benefits from such a tragedy."
They took out an effective opponent and will suffer no consequences.
You really have to work at being so obtuse.
It was certainly a political assassination. The nature of the man, his political/social significance, and the circumstances of the murder are quite clear.
Dumb fuck Chuck here to condemn half the country within 24 hours after some person condemned a man to death for the danger of speaking to college students. No navel-grazing for DFC, rather just coming right out, pointing fingers, and saying “how dare you!”. When the Mayor of Minneapolis and Governor of California condemned half the country, DFC had nothing to say about them.
They apparently have the rifle, palm and shoe prints. Looking like a well practiced lucky amateur now. Possibly a TDS student?
Leland 9:06
yep. the left are Collectively universally vile.
I keep asking myself, realistically, how would this possibly help Democrats?
The same way it helped Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot to silent dissent. Shaming victims was another way they used.
It is why we suggest you reconsider your behavior right now, but you won’t because you can’t.
I get a kick out of Howard and Ronnie telling each other they aren't fascists. Ha Ha Ha nice one
You fucking evil leftists killed a man - and you want us to shut up.
NO. and fuck you forever.
C.Kirk was a very effective political/social activist. His elimination is a gain for his opponents, assuming this is not offset by the effects of his bloody shirt energizing conservatives. He will be hard to replace, he was highly intelligent, energetic, and very charismatic.
The left is always attacking Hitler and punching Nazis, because that is what the last sensible leftsts did. I note that was several generations ago, and they only attacked the Nazis to remove Hitler as an existential threat to their own hold on power in the Soviet Union. But now, when there are no Nazis to punch, heck, simply call your political opponents Nazis to justify your attacking them violently. I, for one, expect them to stop with the faux-justifications of their violence against all non-leftists before 2028 elections. Or more likely, before 2026 elections. Why? Because the left has only violence to support their ideology, as leftist progressivism really, really, really doesn't work for governance nor for societal improvement and everyone, including the leftists, realize both of those simple facts.
"It's a very somber day, not a day to strain to find a way to advantage your side. And yet, there is Trump in that video, forthrightly blaming the radical left." What do you mean, "and yet"? Blaming the radical left is formulating the problem. Recognizing the threat explicitly is no "advantage." Forthright is right. Since neutralizing the radical left is essential to saving a democratic republic, beginning a serious counterattack also doesn't serve just one "side."
The Vault Dweller said...
"But the zionists will benefit greatly from this event and Israel has been acting very badly over the last months."
How does Israel benefit from the murder of Charlie Kirk? While I haven't heard what he said specifically, I know Kirk did raise issues about Israel's war against Hamas, but I doubt it was to the level of being categorized as Anti-Zionist.
Come on now. I know people don't source as broadly as I do but you have to realize where Israel is right now. They just killed the families of Hamas negotiators in Qatar. Not only did they try to assassinate diplomats who were lured into peace talks by the US, they killed wives and children, and they did it in a sovereign country that was attempting to mediate.
I absolutely believe that Hamas are the worst human filth and the world should unite to feed them all to wood chippers foot first.
But.
US honor has been permanently damaged. At least with Iran the attack came on the 61st day and there was some pretense. It strains credulity that the US at some level did not know Israel was going to try to kill these people. The planes flew across Iraq and had to be on US radar. What happened in Qatar is not good and it is going to turn many people against Israel when they find out.
Leftists get signatures to ban free speech on campus - you all riot and protest non-stop.
You insert such over-the top violence-inspiring rhetoric -
and now you think conservatives killed Charlie. There are not enough fuck yous
The hope is that someone will take affirmative action to color the opponent and the handmade tales will come fast and furious.
Rifle was apparently an "older Mauser" in .30-06. This could be a postwar West German make or one of a gazillion postwar custom jobs marrying a Mauser-made action with a .30-06 chambered barrel. Need more information. There are custom jobs and there are custom jobs. In any case this is not an indication of poor quality.
@Achilles: "Rifles aren't like they used to be. They are not necessarily big and bulky anymore. I am looking at a 1000+m capable bolt action rifle you can get in several bore sizes that is 20 inches front to back and 12 inches tall depending on optic."
Sort of. Two-piece take down and de-facto take down rifles (e.g., AR-15) are quite short and can be assembled in 30 seconds. The overall length is determined by the barrel alone (e.g., shotgun-style break open designs), or the barrel plus receiver length. This can mean 16" or even less, but in two parts.
Take down rifles are not even remotely "new" designs, and date back to the 19th century. You seem to be describing a bullpup bolt gun, but this isn't appreciably shorter than take down designs when in two pieces.
Regardless, a 200 yard shot at a human from a rest would be generally easy with regular hunting rifle, and AR-15, or a take down rifle.
Israel did not kill Charlie Kirk.
It’s that you’ve been programmed to the point you can’t at least pause for facts before condemning half the country.
Funny how it's always the Bad Guys who are "programmed" lock-step automatons, unlike the Good Guys, who are all smiling, happy individuals who would never make an untoward accusation. (Or, you know, murder somebody in broad daylight...)
There’s a statement often attributed to Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto that seems appropriate: “I fear we have only awakened a sleeping giant, and filled him with a terrible rage.”
Yeah, lefties, I think you did.
"Regardless, a 200 yard shot at a human from a rest would be generally easy with regular hunting rifle, and AR-15, or a take down rifle."
My initial reaction is that since Charlie was hit in the neck that it wasn't a professional. Or even a good hunter. Looks like an attempt at a head shot without taking bullet drop into account.
Advantage to a rifle of this type, if the report is true, is that its harder to trace, vis-a-vis a modern, or recently manufactured weapon. There have been thousands of such old deer rifles on Gunbroker. There should be no problem using such a thing for this purpose, as long as it checks out on the range. Interestingly there is nothing in the report about a scope.
Just because there were antifa and trans ideology inscribed on the rounds doesn't necessarily mean the shooter was trans or antifa. It could mean that's what someone wanted people to think.
@buwaya: "In any case this is not an indication of poor quality."
Not at all. The Model 1898 Mauser bolt action is regarded as the pinnacle of bolt action designs -- it was copied by everyone on planet Earth. The design is still the basis for newly made hunting rifles. Furthermore, a 100 year old gun can perform just as well as a brand new one -- swap out the olds springs and keep it from rusting -- it'll be good for another hundred years.
A typical .30-06 bolt rifle with a hunting scope could put 5 shots in a 1" to 2" circle at 100 yards, so make that 2" to 4" at 200 yards. It could also kill a huge elk, bear, or moose at that range.
Easy shot.
The Left has no leg to stand on:
* Homophobia - used to denounce anyone that thought the gay lifestyle was unacceptable.
* Speech is Violence - used to justify actual violence
* Micro-aggression - see "speech is violence"
* Hate Speech - used as substitution for being unable to win the argument or just plain don't want to hear.
* Hitler - the all purpose epithet to justify any action taken against the person, because who wouldn't want to take out Hitler.
There are likely more terms, but these are all of the Left and used as a substitute for reasoned discourse.
They own the violence.
Kirk was hit in the chest and the bullet ricocheted upwards from the plate on his bulletproof vest. The shooter was trying for a chest shot. The shooter got lucky, the vest almost worked. Kirk seems to have been somewhat prepared for an attack.
@buwaya
"Kirk was hit in the chest and the bullet ricocheted upwards from the plate on his bulletproof vest."
I did not know that. That makes me think that maybe the shot was taken by someone who knew what they were doing. Going for center mass.
Hamas negotiators or managers? Iran et al have a history of proxy wars with the Jews, most recently funded by release of disputed funds. Hamas took refuge in Qatar as Al Qaeda took refuge in Afghanistan as illegal [criminal] aliens take refuge in sanctuary states as the "burden" of evidence is aborted under the planned parenthood umbrella corporation. As boys and girls passing through puberty, confused or dissatisfied with their changing bodies, receive therapy through surgical, medical, and psychiatric corruption, or groomed under a veil of privacy that has recently been lifted.
Achilles, he didn't get away through the building.
Found this on a post
on Legal Insurrection
@BillMelugin_
1h
Law enforcement update:
- FBI has "good" surveillance images of Charlie Kirk assassin but won't release them right now.
- Person was tracked jumping off the building and fleeing into a neighborhood.
- Bolt-action rifle found in wooded area.
- Assassin appears "college aged".
Ron Winkleheimer said...
"Regardless, a 200 yard shot at a human from a rest would be generally easy with regular hunting rifle, and AR-15, or a take down rifle."
My initial reaction is that since Charlie was hit in the neck that it wasn't a professional. Or even a good hunter. Looks like an attempt at a head shot without taking bullet drop into account.
My information has him hit in the chest with a bullet proof vest and a ricochet up.
.30-06 bullets have a standard range of 150-180 grain at 2700-3000 fps muzzle velocity. That would require a plate to stop.
I am also going to say the plate failed if there was ricochet as most modern plates are designed to catch the bullet. Usually a layer of kevlar fabric or something similar that is penetrated and tangles fragments that are formed as the bullet strikes the plate and breaks apart.
If I was the plate manufacturer I would be sweating a bit.
@Ron Winkleheimer: "I am also going to say the plate failed if there was ricochet as most modern plates are designed to catch the bullet."
Wait and see. The bullet may have been armour piercing (AP) in an effort to get through a vest, or the shot could have clipped the edge of the plate.
Correction: Achilles not Ron W.
The radical left targeted Trump for violating the first rule of social liberal club. He's not the first Democrat to have an epiphany and transition.
Althouse said " Maybe we ought to wait until we learn more, and maybe the hateful rhetoric is coming from both sides, and maybe there are leftwing targets of violence." Somewhat interesting that we have to wonder if there are leftwing targets of violence. There's no doubt that rightwing targets of violence exist because the latest one is dead.
*Ron Winkleheimer said...
"Regardless, a 200 yard shot at a human from a rest would be generally easy with regular hunting rifle, and AR-15, or a take down rifle."
My initial reaction is that since Charlie was hit in the neck that it wasn't a professional. Or even a good hunter. Looks like an attempt at a head shot without taking bullet drop into account.*
About a 4” drop (depending on grain so just average) at 200 yards, plus downhill which an amateur would tend to shoot a bit under, anyway.
That’s a guess. When I deer hunt, we give the meat away to families, so preservation of the carcass it preferable. I do neck shots with a .223 on an AR style platform. It’s a higher risk shot but the reward is no damaged meat for the families. The impact is pretty devastating since of you hit anything outside of the windpipe, it’s lethal. I seriously doubt the shooter was aiming for the neck unless he was very well trained with that style and caliber of rifle. (I find AR platforms much easier to train on, especially when varying calibers, that wood stock bolt actions although the Mauser action is butter if well maintained!)
I saw comments on a possible ricochet on the vest but after watching the video and seeing stills, I’m not so sure about that due to possible fragmentation and just the overall “punch” to the neck he exhibited.
More will come out eventually but I’m thinking marginally trained shooter and an unfortunately lethal miss.
Kak: “ The FBI right now could probably use all those experienced senior career professionals with decades of investigative experience that they fired for absolutely no reason.”
I thought Patel and Bongino hired back the whistleblowers and the vax-refusers….JSM
kak - the fired corrupt 86-Trumpers might be behind this execution.
Read also Bullet bounced off his protection vest !?
Could be center mass target
Not IL ref Mag Mile: Trump can send in Feds and NG to protect chicagoans’ and tourists’ rights under the Commerce Clause. That’s the foundation of all the civil rights laws and cases, no?
Once the first SUV heading into a building gets zipped up with 5.56 bursts, and the survivors get locked up for civil rights felonies, the smash and grabs will stop. JSM
Well now that we know the assassin was carving trantifa nonsense into his weapon, are we allowed to point the finger where it should be pointed, at the radical left?
Reading through the comments I think everyone has covered all the known bases and emotions. Even the insane ones. More than one of you think Israel has nothing more going on than to kill Charlie Kirk? WTF? How do you people manage to stand upright when you get out of bed each day?
Anyway...
This smelled of antifa to me from the get go. But we don't know it's them at this point. And anything left behind could most certainly be left there on purpose. Sometimes a thing is what it is and should not be overthought. But sometimes it's easy to steer people with expectations like me.
I don't know what they'll figure out. But I do know this: The left has become a disease in this country. They are the most miserable people in the nation. They hate this country. They hate religious people. They hate people who just want to live a life without protests and causes. They hate White people. They hate families. They hate children. They hate the truth, if they are ever actually confronted with it as they were in Utah yesterday. And they would prefer everyone not like them would simply fall in line or disappear.
What do you do with half a nation like that? I don't know. But I do think we're at a point in time where a path needs to be chosen. I don't know what direction we're headed. Sure...everyone today is talking peace. Even Ezra Klein sounded reasonable today (your other post). But that always happens. In a week, or less, everyone will have absorbed where we're at, and default to their normal psychological positions. Everyone will have different views on what happens next. It could get scary. It will be interesting to see who comes out as a Hero Leader and who comes out looking like hateful morons. I've placed my bets already.
There are reports of leftists celebrating and disrupting vigils. Maybe, just maybe, Trump was right to call out the leftist hate.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/09/boise-vigil-charlie-kirk-descends-violence-as-sick/
The nice thing about organizing Democrats Against Political Violence is that the members can all fit inside a standard SUV.
@Phaedrus, glad you weighed in. I don’t hunt but until recently I was a competitive shooter, focused on b.p. and 19th century weapons. I fully agree with your assessment that this was a “unlucky” miss by a person not used to adjusting for distance and bullet drop. Best guess is that he aimed for a head shot (already a sign of an amateur) and missed low because he didn’t know that a rifle zeroed at 100 yards will drop 4” at 150 meters (= 500 feet). The drop would be less since he was shooting downhill, but if he flinched a little ….
As you correctly put it, more will come out later.
(And good on you that you can take down a deer with a .223.)
The nice thing about organizing Democrats Against Political Violence is that the members can all fit inside an original VW Beetle.
@Mike, FIFY
I watched the video at gateway pundit. There were about 20 hecklers vs around 1000 or so mourners. When someone drove a scooter through the crowd shouting F*K Charlie Kirk what I would describe as a beatdown occurred. My question is, did the left deliberately provoke this reaction or are they so used to the politeness and order of conservatives that they didn't realize that would happen?
When "hate speech" became a common term, it referred to hateful bigotry against groups. It was used to distinguish a category of "hate crimes" that were somehow supposed to be different from other crimes.
There were problems with the term even then. "Hate crimes" were only committed against certain groups and not against others. I remember when someone yelled to his friends about "getting a cracker" and killed a white student. Needless to say, the killer was not charged with a hate crime.
Lately, "hate speech" has come to denote speech that one hates for some reason or another. "Freedom for the thought we hate" used to be a watchword for Anthony Lewis and the ACLU. But now, our modern-day Socrates or Cicero, Aristotle or Aquinas, Brian Stelter, tells us that in the name of "harm reduction" we have to restrict speech that we don't like.
The practice of defining speech one didn't like as a "microaggression" also entered the culture. Speaking freely and effectively came to be seen as a way of using power disparities to "silence" others. I'm not sure how Heidegger entered the discussion, but I see that and raise you some folk Habermas interpretation: the "ideal speech situation" can only be achieved when certain opponents who are good debaters are silenced.
"What do you do with half a nation like that?"
I don't think its half the nation. It was 1000 or so mourners at the Boise vigil vs 20 or so hecklers. The real issue is that so many people still believe the legacy media is gospel. But that is a problem that is resolving itself.
Also yesterday Poland was attacked by Russian drones apparently launched from inside Belarus, a close ally of Putin’s Russia.
I am so thankful that we go not have fools and idiots like Biden of Harris as President. I am equally thankful that our military leadership no longer includes poltroons like Mark Milley of Lloyd Austin. I hope Trump rises to the challenge, but I know for a certainty that none of his political opponents could possibly even come close.
The antifa angle is interesting. I happened to be watching Fox News in the immediate aftermath and there was a young, dark-haired couple (female looked either Mex-Am or of ME descent and the male long-hair, bearded). They seemed to seek out the camera and the news person. They were asked their thoughts and the female came off as ditzy, maybe stoned said something along the lines of “I just can’t believe, like, this happened”, with a slight smile on her face and when asked what is the significance of this act, the male said, “Oh, I dunno maybe we need more gun control” with a smirk. The news person and cameraman had enough sense to cut away at that point.
Sounds like something a leftist might think is funny…
"My information has him hit in the chest with a bullet proof vest and a ricochet up."
Guarantee some on the left will claim it was a set-up that went wrong. Ronald already alluded
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