Said Jeffrey Lenkov, Pete Rose's lawyer, quoted in an ESPN report that says, "Commissioner Rob Manfred is considering a petition filed on Jan. 8 by Pete Rose's family to have Major League Baseball's all-time hit leader posthumously removed from baseball's ineligible list...."
Here's yesterday's post about Trump's plan to pardon Rose and his statement that "Baseball, which is dying all over the place, should get off its fat, lazy ass, and elect Pete Rose, even though far too late, into the Baseball Hall of Fame!"
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Inarguably the greatest to ever play the game.
One Trump pardon with which I agree.
I hate to say this as a Mets fan, but Meade is right.
It is absurd given the ped cheats get in but a grudge with a dead commish keeps him out. Makes baseball look petty and obnoxious…
About time. I wonder what changed?
They stalled on Durocher until after he was dead.
Not sure "baseball is dead" here in Texas games a very full
Rose kept his end of the deal.
Here’s The Donald making new “fat assed” friends. /s
"They stalled on Durocher until after he was dead."
Same with Ron Santo. It's a pattern.
Went to a Reds game in Cincinnati a few years back and saw the greatest vendor t shirt ever: Cincinnati red emblazoned with "I'm with Pete! $200 on the Reds to Win"
Another reason they shoulda banned Greyhound racing years ago. Reds played in Tampa and Rose is said to have visited Derby Lane where you could feel good about betting cause you were contributing to the State coffer. But the damn lottery came along and people were contributed out by the time they reached the track.
Is his lifetime ban over if he’s still voting for Democrats?
I think waiting until he is unable to sign “Pete Rose - HOF” is punishment enough.
I visited Cooperstown for Phil Niekro’s induction. Pete Rose was signing autographs, for a fee, in one of the souvenir shops unaffiliated with the HOF. It struck me as very sad.
It's tougher to take the arguments against Rose seriously when all the major sports, including baseball, are getting ad revenue up the wazoo from FanDuel and the other gambing sites. If baseball wants to move past their Rose problem, they'll also need to go back and look at Shoeless Joe Jackson as well. And maybe finally explain why Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker got a pass when the others didn't.
quit worrying about stupid things and bring the freakin prices down like you promised and stop the war like you promised and get off all these other culture routines that you ar doing to the exception of what you said you were gonna do with the economy cmon man times running out...
Good. I was never in favor of dumb, arrogant, Pete "the rules don't apply to me" Rose getting in the HOP during his lifetime. But now that he's batting against St. Peter, he can go in. BTW, is Shoeless Joe Jackon in? Or did they keep the ban on him?
He was not the greatest of all time, that was Babe Ruth.
He argued.
Meade refuted.
Barry Bonds isn’t in the Hall of Fame either. But Harold Baines is. Cooperstown doesn’t mean much.
Barry "I got so huge at 35, and started hitting 73 HR's a year at age 37, because I discovered weight lifting" should be kept out until he's dead. And if they do let Bonds in, they should build a "Steroids are Great" wing at the HOF building.
Bud Selig is in the Hall of Fame. As soon as the owners disgorge all the money they made off the steroid era, people won’t take baseball seriously. Also Curt Schilling isn’t in the hall of fame either. Because he doesn’t like Muslims.
Conclusive proof Trump is actually Biff Tannen from Back to the Future 2.
Isn't every athlete in every game in every sport essentially "betting" on his team to win? Isn't the alternative -- betting against one's own team -- the thing to be avoided?
Discuss and give examples.
“ here in Texas games a[re] very full”
Yeah, full of cheaters. At least in the southern half.
They should give Pete Rose an induction to the BBHoF, and while they’re making things right, they should take away the championship from the Astros and give it to its rightful owner the Yankees.
The Astros won two (of four) games at Dodger Stadium in the 2017 World Series.
That’s why they won the World Series.
The Yankees aren’t winning a World Series again until Hal sells the team.
Inarguably the greatest to ever play the game.
Now, That's funny.
Cue up "Center Field" for all the young men who cheered-on The Big Red Machine, back in the day. Field of Dreams?
Meade is full of merde. No way Pete Rose is a greater baseball player then Joe DiMaggio Babe Ruth Ted Williams Nolan Ryan Willie Mays Hank Aaron. That said, he should be in the Hall of Fame.
"Legally, the lifetime ban is over. His lifetime is over."
For all intent and purposes of MLB baseball, Pete Rose is not dead. Pete Rose is very much alive in MLB record books, videos and memorabilia.
Reinstating Rose will only mean that the rule against players betting on baseball will hereafter be null and void.
Great : GOAT ? Here in The South , Spring has arrived , so before the Hot Stove goes cold, let's do GOAT by position . And then do AL/NL . I'll start: CF Mays ; 3B Schmidt ; C Bench ; 1B Gehrig; SS Banks/Jeter?;2B,LF,RF???? Over to Youse
In a sense, it's more of a distinction to be not a member of the HOF. He's in very exclusive company: Shoeless Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds etc. The HOF is peopled with names you don't recognize, but there's only been a few greats who were refused entry........I wonder if Trump taking this moment to reflect on the Pete Rose situation is Trump's way of saying that the fate of Ukraine just isn't very important to our country.
Nothing like a meme to support my argument: Despite the fact that the majority rules, does not mean the majority is right. It only means the majority is gullible.
Pete Rose couldn’t carry Bad Henry’s jock strap. There are several others (Ted Williams, I mean come on), but Hank was the be all end all for little kids, in Georgia in 1968.
Ohtani is the greatest ever. Followed by Ruth. Power hitting and starting pitching are the most valuable aspects of baseball.
"CF Mays ; 3B Schmidt ; C Bench ; 1B Gehrig; SS Banks/Jeter?;2B,LF,RF???? Over to Youse"
SS is Honus Wagner, RF is Ruth.
Pujols is the greatest first baseman ever. Gehrig is second for now.
What William said. Trump's Rose tweet was more of a big f**k you to Z than really caring about Rose. Why else would it happen that particular day and time?
"If baseball wants to move past their Rose problem, they'll also need to go back and look at Shoeless Joe Jackson as well. And maybe finally explain why Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker got a pass when the others didn't."
My sense is that, before the Black Sox, there was a perceived difference between fixing games and gambling on games. I don't think the evidence presented indicated Cobb and Speaker were fixing. The Black Sox scandal established the principle that gambling - or knowledge of gambling - is equivalent to fixing, and that's where Rose got caught.
It's not a lifetime ban. He was placed on the Permanently Ineligible list. Just like Joe Jackson.
When every utility player, long-relief guy, cup-of-coffee call up, bullpen catcher, batboy, clubhouse attendant, hot dog vendor and Baseball Annie has gotten into the Hall, we can consider Pete Rode.
"BTW, is Shoeless Joe Jackon in? Or did they keep the ban on him?"
Reposting because of a stupid typo: Joe Jackson is not in the Hall of Fame. Curiously, for about the first fifty years of the Hall of Fame, Jackson wasn't banned from the Hall. It was only when Rose was approaching eligibility that the Hall passed a rule that players banned from MLB couldn't be elected for HOF induction.
MLB has taken the position that they have no position on whether Rose inducted or not. I'm doubtful that the Hall could put together a committee that would vote him in - he burned through a lot of goodwill by lying every step of the way.
"Inarguably the greatest to ever play the game."
As shit-stirring goes, Meade is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
If something is inarguable, is it necessary to explicitly point it out? Seems to me, by making the "inarguable" claim, one is, in fact, recognizing there is an argument to be made and is making one in favor of their point of view.
GOAT? Always arguable. The GOAT in one era might have been an afterthought in another. Because, reasons...
Competition: Way back, many of the "Greats" may have been superior athletes but competition was not. Strength and conditioning were very different, even for the best.
Equipment: I had a 1930s vintage glove my Dad used in college and minor league play. There were no Gold Glove Awards back in the day. OTOH, I could handle ANYTHING with my 1961 Wilson A-2000. That glove was stolen in the early '70s. True love never dies. I bought another four years ago (inferior, if you ask me) at age 78 to play catch with my neighbor - the old fucker can throw 'em in the grass all day long and I can still get down and scoop 'em up. The original (College athletic dept. discount) was $15. The new one set me back $300!
I can be 20 years old again, anytime I want :-)
Scheduling: Day games. Night games. "Let's play two." Travel. Who can say what effect? I suspect there is one - probably more.
The DH: An abomination, without a doubt. Unless a Nolan Ryan is on the mound, people like to watch offense being produced. The DH, however, is pale in comparison to relief pitching. Long relief, middle relief, short relief, closers. Guys with special junk. Guys with unbelievable and intimidating HEAT! Real pitchers go the distance.
The greatest baseball GameOAT was the 1963 mid-"summer" contest, under the lights at Candlestick Park. Juan Marichal and 42-year-old Warren Spahn went all the way and held opponents scoreless until the bottom of the 16th when Willie Mays hit a solo HR. It was Spahn's 201st pitch. He led the league in complete games that year with 22 (30 starts).
Baseball fans are slaves to stats and sometimes weird interpretation of same. For the record, due to injury, I threw my last pitch in '63 and studied my last box score around 1970. Couldn't tell you a thing about what's happened since.
Ohtani, Ricky Henderson, Ted Williams.
My all time outfield.
I, for one, enjoy the long list of things Trump is doing that don't really matter but still provide distraction and amusement to lessen the useful actions being taken against his more important programmatic actions. Oh, look, a squirrel!
I always thought the permanent ban on Rose was excessive. Today it seems downright petty, considering how the pro sports world has cozied up to the sports betting outfits.
A lot of debate over who was the greatest baseball player. Can we least agree that Benjamin Franklin, who literally invented electricity, was our greatest president?
"Benjamin Franklin, who literally invented electricity, was our greatest president."
Maybe, but he couldn't dunk for shit.
I for one, don’t give a tinkers damn about Pete, he broke the rules, and he died rich.
Maybe, but he couldn't dunk for shit
No matter. Sports groupies weren’t a big thing back then but political groupies were a thing and Ben was a real goer so say the historians…
"Rocco said...
A lot of debate over who was the greatest baseball player. Can we least agree that Benjamin Franklin, who literally invented electricity, was our greatest president?"
(Waiting for Freder or Cookie to correct you)
Why does it have to be a lifetime ban?
For the penalty against betting on games to carry weight it has to mean something more than money, since money is the bettors sui generis (if I'm using the word correctly). What is more valuable to a player than money? The game that made him earn more money than he could earn doing anything else. There is a reason why few, if no other big-name player like Rose, has been caught betting on games.
The disincentive works.
“ Inarguably the greatest to ever play the game.”
I could name many better but that’s not the point. He bet on baseball and lied about it. There is nothing more harmful to the integrity of the game.
It is absurd given the ped cheats get in but a grudge with a dead commish keeps him out. Makes baseball look petty and obnoxious…”
Name the ped cheats elected to the Hall of Fame. I don’t think you can.
"There is a reason why few, if no other big-name player like Rose, has been caught betting on games."
Ballplayers make more money today than they did in the past- a lot more. In 1967, the average ballplayer made a little over 2x that of the average US worker. In 2024, it was closer to 100x. That's a pretty big disincentive to FAFO.
Ozzie Smith is the greatest defender in baseball.
Aaron is the greatest hitter.
The best starting pitcher is tough. No one is going to touch Cy Young in number of starts or innings pitched. Was a different game.
Greg Maddux is the greatest fielding pitcher (and has to be top 10 all time great pitcher).
Going with longevity, strike out ability, and grit Tom Seaver might be the best ever.
"Legally, the lifetime ban is over. His lifetime is over."
That would be an interesting argument if Pete Rose had received a lifetime ban. He did not. He was placed on the permanently ineligible list. Now, players and managers can and have been reinstated from that list, so perhaps "indefinitely" would be a better term.
Pete Rose is most certainly not the greatest player of all time. He's somewhere in the 50-75th greatest player of all time range. Which of course is exceptional, and easily warranting Hall of Fame induction. If he had not bet on baseball while the manager of the Reds.
Pete Rose bet on over 50 Reds games while he was the manager. He knew this was against the rules, and would result in a permanent ban. There were signs in the very clubhouse he managed in saying this was against the rules. He lied about his actions for years, and then eventually admitted it, many years after he had been banned for what everyone knew was true. He maintained that he never bet against the team he managed, but I have no reason to believe him.
It's obvious that even betting in favor of the team you're managing undermines the integrity of the game. If he bet on 10% of games, he would pull any lever, take any risk, to win that game, even at the cost of his team for the long run, hurting his team in the games he did not bet on. Betting in favor of his team incentivized him to treat baseball like a sprint, when the 162-game season is a marathon. That's not even to mention the fact that he granted professional gamblers dirt to blackmail him on by placing bets with them.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what plaques are put on what walls, but I don't understand the controversy. Rose is serving an obviously reasonable penalty for an obviously serious offense.
Tom Seaver was a classy man in a not-classy time, but the greatest World Series, or maybe the most entertaining one, was the 1986 Mets/Red Sox match. Da Mets, half of their star players just out of jail from fights in the playoffs, came back in the Sixth in one of the greatest games ever. Mets fans loyally cheered Seaver, despite his then being a Red Sox. Oct. 27, 1986 was the greatest day in baseball and hope returned that New York City might live again -- years later, and Guliani, it did. Meanwhile, Oil Can Boyd, Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, and Gary Carter played one of the last pre-modern-training games in history (except Oil Can, who did too much crack and drank a bottle of vodka and had to be locked in a room for the game). I'll never forget Boston fans yelling "Her-o-in" every time Keith Hernandez came up to bat, and then he devastated them. Every Octover 27, I re-watch that game on youtube. Not a model of good behavior, but a hell of a lot of fun.
The rare case where I agree with most of the posts. Not a sports obsessive, but it is such a core interest that it's important to keep it clean. I've found the normalization of gambling to be very disturbing. When I go to the gym, I stream shows on my phone. If I watch it on Amazon, I get some ads and the number that are for Fandool or some other online gambling service is just amazing to me. If I look up at the screens up front I see, again, lots of sports betting ads, especially on ESPN. I think I heard a Fandool ad that said it was the official betting service for the NBA. People complain, with reason, about the ease of access to porn, but I hear almost nothing about this phenomenon. I think Rose got what he deserved, but it will become harder to defend that decision if gambling continues to be a part of sports.
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