The Biden administration’s decision came despite widespread condemnation of mines by rights groups that cite their toll on civilians, which can stretch for years or decades after conflicts end as the locations of minefields are left unmarked or forgotten.... Russia has seeded mines throughout vast swaths of Ukraine since 2014 as front lines have swayed over forests, farm fields and villages. It has also set many so-called victim-activated booby traps, such as explosives rigged to detonate when a car door is opened, a category of weapon also prohibited in the mine ban treaty.
November 20, 2024
"They’ve asked for these, and so I think it’s a good idea."
Said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, in a stunning feat of moral reasoning, quoted in "Biden Administration Approves Ukraine’s Use of Anti-Personnel Mines" (NYT). The U.S. did not merely approve the use of land mines. We are supplying them.
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Did they consult with the incoming administration ?
It's becoming the cafeteria scene in Animal House. This is mind-numbingly reckless.
...and extremely frightening...! Who actually is calling the shots over there?
The rules say mines have to self-safe after a short time.
One more reason to be glad the Biden/Harris/Whoever administration will be gone soon.
"Who actually is calling the shots over there?"
Zelensky, apparently. ("They’ve asked for these, and so I think it’s a good idea."
Said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin,…")
War Machine gotta War Machine $$$$. Final push for $$$$$.
anyone know? Aren't land-mines against the Geneva convention?
Is that a real thing? Does it "safe" forever?
I'm guessing this means that Northrup-Grumman-Raytheon has some new, million-bucks-apiece land mines that the cross-dressing perverts at the Pentagon are eager to get their hands on. So, they are shipping the old land mines to Zelensky, and buying the new ones for themselves. They likely have plans to deploy them somewhere in Africa, where Our Freedom (TM) is in immediate peril.
This is insane. It is estimated that there are over 110 million unexploded landmines scattered across the earth today. These things don't go away.
Good ole dems. Mines are good now.
We knew Biden/Harris could go low - but war criminal low? As low as Putin?
"They’ve asked for these, and so I think it’s a good idea."
Said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin explaining the delivery of Ohio class SSBNs to the Ukraine
"They’ve asked for these, and so I think it’s a good idea."
Said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin explaining the delivery of biowarfare agents to the Ukraine
"They’ve asked for these, and so I think it’s a good idea."
Said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, explaining the movement of the 1st Infantry, 3rd Armored, 82nd Airborne divisions to the Ukrainian front lines
Our son would have gotten very different Christmas presents based on that logic.
No, they are not against the Geneva convention, and the US has never signed any treaty preventing the use of land mines.
It's because the Russians are winning and the Ukrainian lines are collapsing. This is always when the most desperate stuff is done.
They wouldn’t a asked for ‘em if it wasn’t a good idea, probably
That's correct. Only 164 countries have signed this treaty, and the US is not one of them. Of course we didn't sign up to be judged by the ICC either. Viet Nam still has a lot of land closed off because of mines from the "American War," as they call it.
Myanmar had 1,000 civilian casualties due to old land mines in 2023. Ukraine is desperate, they should have made a deal back in 2022, when keeping their country intact was still on offer from Putin.
Does the TNT become inert?
Zelensky calls and asks for some nukes......
I don't think I've seen a President and his Administration that has more indecent, immoral assholes the Joe Biden's. They'll happily give Israel "daisy cutters" and huge bombs or whatever else to kill kids in Gaza and Lebanon. They'll chortle as they give Zelesnkyyy mines that will kill people long after the war is over. All because they want to "Weaken Russia" or "Stand by Israel, no matter what".
Hopefully, Trump will end this bloody useless war.
This administration is doing everything it can get away with, to escalate the situation before January 20.
Sixty freaking days left and Joe is pushing the world into WW3.
this was princess diana's cause celebre, well never mind,
It is interesting to watch the Regime shred its last vestiges or morality and influence on the way out of power.
They are desperate to make Trump look like the good guy for some reason.
And this guy is more qualified than Pete Hegseth? In exactly what capacity?
Not just escalating the war but committing war crimes. Yeah US.
So Pete Hegseth is now less/about-the-same/more qualified than Sec. Austin?
Is that a real thing? Does it "safe" forever?
American designs generally prevent the detonator from activating after a period of time, without which the main explosive is difficult to detonate.
While I find this action abhorrent, criticizing Biden for committing war crimes is the pot calling the kettle black. Trump has indicated a willingness to commit all kinds of war crimes, from torture to indiscriminately shooting civilians. And apparently, he is now willing to use the military to help him round up people and put them in camps.
Trump has pardoned war criminals, and his appointee for SecDef has defended war criminals.
You all (and yes Althouse, that includes you) have absolutely dismissed and justified war crimes since 9/11 (actually before, but having an excuse to kill Muslims, and anyone else you don't like, has really allowed you to let your freak flag fly).
And now you are even complaining about weapons we are supplying to Israel. Give me a freaking break, how many commenters have openly advocated genocide (although you pretend that killing all 2 million plus Gazans is not genocide) against the people of Gaza.
Funny how land mines and long-range missiles (and US-provided targeting data) were not appropriate until after the election.
Shrug. Countries at war are going to use mines, that is just how it is.
he has more flexibility after the election
I noticed that left, including the commentors on this board, have zero principles. Everything is secondary to winning power and hating the RIght. So, their response to Biden supporting Genocide in Gaza, or giving landmines to Ukraine against our humaritarian principles is NOT to criticize Biden, its to say "well, Trump is just as Bad".
But then, that's the standard Leftist tactic. Never criticize your own side, no matter what they do. If some brings something up that can't be defended, say "You too" or "Hey, look squirrel". Never just say "Yeah, our side is wrong".
Chuck you stupid ass! Why the hell does the US have to supply them?
In their last weeks at the helm, the Biden braintrust seems intent on a US/Russia war breaking out, to hand over to Trump. They apparently don't even consider Ukraine any longer, not to mention the entire world. Just...let's screw Trump.
And let's consider this: A war between the Ukraine at this level, and Russia returning massive fire into Kyiv, will quickly become a NATO (US) war with Russia. And now you know why the Swedish government has issued instructions to it's own citizens on how to secure their home in case of a nuclear war breaking out.
Who is running the United States these days?
And why isn't every journalist still breathing writing breathlessly about Democrats and their sudden love for long and plentiful wars?
Why isn't the President justifying these decisions? Past his bed time?
If the US is supporting Ukraine, of course they should supply them. What is the problem?
Freder, so you're saying that if the pot is calling the kettle black, that the kettle really isn't black? Do you see the ethical issue with your statement?
American designs generally prevent the detonator from activating after a period of time
And I suspect that is why Ukraine wants them. It isn't like both sides haven't been using anti-personnel mines before this.
World War Spring... III.
"chuck
If the US is supporting Ukraine, of course they should supply them. What is the problem?"
Why?
Well, loudogblog he's a dumbass so don't expect much.
Yes. This.
Freder, so you're saying that if the pot is calling the kettle black, that the kettle really isn't black? Do you see the ethical issue with your statement?
They are both black, that is the whole point of the idiom. Would you rather I say "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"? That has a similar meaning.
NATO intercepted the Chinese flagged, Russian Captained, vessel that cut international undersea cables. This happened in the Baltic sea, hundreds of miles from Ukraine. The conflict is already spreading.
I expect Putin's response will be to allow unrestricted conventional strategic bombing in Ukraine. Something akin to Operation Linebacker II in Vietnam. Putin might even wait until December 18th to coincide with the anniversary.
There is really nothing for Trump to do at the moment. Trump has no legal authority at this time and much of his knowledge of events will be mixed with classified briefings he will be receiving as President-elect. I think Democrats are hoping Trump will leak something, anything, they can claim is both pro-Putin and a mishandling of classified data. Yeah, "Just...let's screw Trump [and the Ukrainian and American people, maybe more].
No, Trump is worse. You complain about Obama's drone program (which I was against), yet ignore the fact that Trump actually doubled down on the drone program.
You berate the "Biden and Clinton crime families" yet ignore the graft of the Trump administration. You want to see Hunter Biden and the rest of the family in jail, yet you find nothing wrong with Jared Kushner accepting $2 billion from the Saudi Sovereign Fund. You excoriate the Clinton Foundation, and ignore the abuse of the Trump Foundation, where Trump was self-dealing from the Foundation and was forced to give up the foundation and was banned from starting a new one.
I feel they are setting up Z to have enough defensive and offensive weapons to be able to come to the bargaining table with Putin and have some say on what is going on. The ATACMS gives the Ukraine offensive ability (as well as the SU-27) and now very good land mines a defensive ability for any large Russian push to finish it with the North Korean soldiers.
Now Trump will come in and try to get a deal (he may also give Z more stuff to even out the abilities of the two.)
By Feb. 2025 I think they will see there is a true stalemate.. and thus a need to end the war.
Fender, all Presidents have pardoned war criminals.. so what? Lawyers defend criminals, include ACUSSED WAR CRIMINALS.. that is what lawyers do. So what?? And no, we don't complain about weapons given to Israel.. all the countries around Israel have said they want to exterminate them.. where you get this 2 million Gazans killed... from HAMAS???
And yes, I think Trump will end it soon... give Z enough weapons to come to the table with a good hand to deal against Putin.
'Jaq' could have mentioned that Ukrainian civilians are killed by Russian land mines every week, sometimes farmers plowing fields, sometimes just people walking or driving around where they live. I believe some Cambodian experts on mine-removal have gone to Ukraine to help train the locals. Of course, the fact that Russia left hundreds of thousands of permanently-activated mines in the areas they temporarily occupied doesn't bother 'Jaq' at all.
It's fine with him that Russians use mines (and cluster bombs) on civilians and soldiers, but Ukrainians are still not allowed to use them on Russian soldiers, even when they're modified to remove the danger to civilians. Why the double standard? It's a double standard two different ways, so more like a quadruple standard.
And yes, these mines are deactivated after a specific time period with a timer, so they are in fact not dangerous to civilians unless someone digs one up and throws it in a campfire. The Ukrainian army was already using anti-vehicle mines with the same characteristic. If they were going to attack a specific area of the front, they would scatter some anti-tank mines on the roads behind the lines, so enemy vehicles that tried to retreat, or came up as reinforcements, were blown up. When the time expired (I think I read 8 hours as a specific example) their own vehicles could roll down the road past all the Russian wrecks without any danger from mines (at least their own mines).
In short, what the Ukrainians are doing with these mines is not a war crime, what the Russians have been doing with their mines is a massive war crime. I've asked several times here, and no one has ever tried to name a war crime the Russians are not committing in Ukraine.
I hear Zelenskyy has his eye on some tactical nuke for his Christmas stocking
If I'm reading RCOcean correctly, he sides with Ukraine and Gaza. Well, both love Nazis.
Land mines work and countries will use them. They are easy to make and deploy. Complaining about mines is like Complaining about rain.
Time to bring in the heavy guns, so to speak, in the person of the sainted Princess Diana who took on the issue of mines as a personal issue. "For the love of good gravy, Diana speaks from the grave, "No mines!'"
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a12021518/princess-diana-landmines/
And reports have Milley supposedly talking to China behind Trump's back, concern that Trump was going to do something stupid in his lasts days as president, after 2020. Where are the pentagon generals now?
This and letting the Ukraine bomb Russian cities with U.S. missiles will escalate the war nicely until Jan. 20. Then, when Trump cancels those orders, Feder and Chuck will wet their pants and claim Trump is bought and paid for by the Russians.
And these Democrats complain about unqualified nominees! With a shit-for-brains mentality, it appears the Biden administration is attempting to saddle Trump’s team with WWIII.
That shitbird Austin should’ve remained AWOL when he skipped out/disappeared with his prostate issues.
Ukraine is not going to "bomb Russian cities" and never has done so. They only bomb military targets. Russia, on the other hand, bombs apartment blocks, grocery stores, schools, hospitals and other civilian targets every night of the week. I only know of one case in the last six months (at least) when their nightly missile, drone, and bomb attacks hit a military target - a technical training school for new recruits - and that was so unusual I wondered if it was a mistake and they thought it was an elementary school.
You voted for this.
And yet, Freder, none of us voted for WW3 like you did. This is the world you made.
So you're saying, Freder, that war with Russia in OK?
Z says Putin fired an ICBM... but you know ICBMs have 1000s of miles range. Whatever Putin fired was more saber rattling.. now Z has fired back with some British Storm Shadow missiles. All before Trump gets in... gonna get interesting but folks.. WW3 is not about to happen. Just positioning of the sides for a peace agreement. I bet Z now has some long range drones he will put into play..
When confronted with his stupid stances Freder dissappears like a spring snow.
Yeah, you don't need Inter Continental to fly within the same continent.
"Chuck you stupid ass! Why the hell does the US have to supply them?"
The US is the world's largest arms exporter...to the tune of mucho profits." That's capitalism! Do you think we have the slightest qualms about who are using them or for what purposes? It's all "defense," right?
"Good ole dems. Mines are good now. "
Good ole Republicans. Pretending to be opposed to war as a normal tool of state policy.
"We knew Biden/Harris could go low - but war criminal low? As low as Putin?"
Every US president since at least WWII has committed war crimes, including Trump..
Land mines remind me of Princess Diana and Norm MacDonald. The jokes were repetitive and perhaps cruel, but I always laughed.
Anyway, this war is something we should be trying to bring to an end, rather than pouring gasoline on the flames. Same thing with the other one.
So, too, too much tu quoque ...
An ICBM is a missile with the range to fly intercontinentally. If you fire it so it lands in the same continent, it's still an ICBM, just as a Corvette driving 10 mph is still a sports car, not a bicycle.
This one was said to have been fired from a base in or near Astrakhan, which is on the Caspian Sea, and which is pretty close to Asia, maybe even in it, depending on which definition of the Europe-Asia boundary you choose.
Leland:
Do you have any evidence that Putin's "strategic bombing" of Ukraine is restricted now? It's certainly not restricted to military targets: his bombs, missiles, and drones kill civilians every night, and aim to do exactly that. And I see no evidence that he isn't already killing civilians on as large a scale as he can, firing all his munitions as soon as he can get them from his factories or from his Iranian and North Korean suppliers.
Why should the US supply them, paminwi and Rusty? Because the US has the kind of mines that will efficiently kill invading Russian soldiers without endangering Ukrainian civilians in the future. Here's a nice picture and explanation of what they're asking for: link. Reducing civilian casualties while repelling a brutal invasion seems to me an unambiguously good thing.
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