It is not clear what the three men discussed or whether they touched on any change in U.S. policy toward Ukraine in the wake of Mr. Trump’s election.
I'm going to guess it was a perfect phone call.
८ नोव्हेंबर, २०२४
"President-elect Donald J. Trump spoke on Wednesday with Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, and during the call handed the phone to Elon Musk..."
Writes Maggie Haberman, in the NYT.
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Was Vindman on the line?
…House Democrats inquiring if they can impeach for this next time they’re in charge…
What, are they peering through the fog in the dark with binoculars looking in the window of Mar Lago?. "It's not clear if...."
We certainly need to break out of our current legacy newspeak silos. To me, "It's not clear..." means "We don't have the faintest clue, but we still want to appear connected, in the know, and relevant, so we'll say it isn't clear."
Well, it's clear to us, Maggie. One thing is, anyway.
Donald Trump had better get it through his THICK SKULL that the Democrats and the media want him DEAD. They will do everything in their power to topple his Presidency.
If Donald Trump and Elon Musk are talking to Putin, then the New York Times shouldn't ever know it occurred until Donald Trump tells them it occurred.
Get some operational security, you absolute clowns.
Trump: Knock Knock
Zelensky: Who's There?
Trump: Payback
Zelensky: Payback for what?
Trump: Payback's coming for being the Patsy in Biden and the democrat's money laundering operation and being a stooge in a war that's cost your country half a million lives. Jokes on you. [click]
How does she know this (I can't read the article)? One thing I learned from Trump I, unless there is an explicit explanation of how they know something, it's probably a ie.
Donald Trump is surrounded by Michael Cohen types who are little more than spies for the New York Times and Deep State.
I can't for the life of me understand how his attempted murder didn't convince him that he needs better security.
Start acting like they're trying to kill you, Donald. Because they are.
They quoted an anonymous source. But that person wasn't in the room, so they couldn't secretly record what Trump was saying. The FBI also has his phones bugged and are leaking to the New York Times.
Guessing here, but maybe it was Zelensky who called Trump to congratulate him? And Musk was in the room by happenstance and Trump asked Zelensky if wanted to talk to Musk?
It's much more in Zelensky's interest to court the new team right away.
And probably someone on Zelensky's end leaked the call's occurrence to the Times.
The Musk portion of the all, assuming the call actually occurred, and assuming the reports of Musk speaking to Zelensky actually occurred (no guarantee with the lying legacy press), more than likely dealt with Starlink (and its military mirror system) for communications by Ukrainian troops. A contract that was awarded to Starlink in June of last year:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/pentagon-buys-starlink-ukraine-statement-2023-06-01/
From the WSJ:
"When Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky called to congratulate President-elect Donald Trump on his successful White House run, an unexpected visitor dropped in on the conversation: Elon Musk, who has been promised a role in the new administration.
Musk’s appearance on the call, which was first reported by Axios, wasn’t coordinated, according to people familiar with the conversation, but he happened to walk into the room right as Trump and Zelensky were speaking.
Trump acknowledged the billionaire owner of SpaceX, whose Starlink satellite service is used widely by Ukraine’s forces, and Musk said hello, prompting Zelensky to say hello back. Zelensky then noted he was using Starlink for the conversation, and Musk replied that he would keep sending more Starlink ground stations to Ukraine and then left the room.
Musk was not officially part of the call, the people familiar with the Trump-Zelensky discussion said, and the engagement lasted mere seconds. They described Musk’s remark about sending Starlink terminals more as friendly banter."
Read this twice:
"... a person familiar with the discussion said. It is not clear what the three men discussed."
They are quoting a single source.
That source, they claim, without evidence, is "familiar with the discussion."
That source cannot recount what was said.
They lied in the first sentence (that person is NOT familiar with the discussion) and then proved they're lying in the second sentence by admitting their source cannot tell them what was said and so isn't familiar with the discussion.
They can't even lie good.
It's OBVIOUS a source has access to Trump's call LOGS (inside a cell phone company, for example] ... but isn't able to tape his conversations to play for the media later.
They know WHO he is talking to, but not what he's saying. So they're CIA or FBI or more likely, an Apple Corp. employee.
Musk was put on to remind Zelensky that 1) he controls Starlink and 2) He stands behind Trump.
He's never been in more danger Dixcus. Before Tuesday he was just an unconfirmed threat. Now he can actually do something. If he's seriously considering releasing JFK, Epstein, and Diddy files certain forces are not past finding another Thomas "Harvey" Crooks.
Exactly. The corporate Democrat Media credibility is so badly damaged - their "newspeak" isn't working anymore.
I know you think you are being clever, but Trump and more so Musk, should not be talking to any national leaders without the express permission and knowledge of the current administration. In fact, it is illegal for private citizens (which Trump and Musk still are) to directly attempt to conduct foreign policy.
The absolutely most dumb fuck idea ever was that there was some reason that Trump should not speak cordially with Putin.
A detente between American-backed Kiev and Russian-backed Ukrainians.
Whatever Maggie claims they spoke about, she claims "without evidence" since she was not on the call (ala Vindman). Pure prognostication.
A summer after the catastrophic Spring.
President-elect Donald J. Trump spoke on Wednesday with Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, and during the call handed the phone to Elon Musk
Logan Act violation! Impeach!
When people wonder what Trump meant during the campaign that Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine or that October 7th wouldn't have happened, here is the news in Qatar:
Qatar has notified Hamas Officials staying in the Country, that they are no longer welcome and must immediately make preparations to depart.
Earlier in the open post, I mentioned that Luxemburg is ready to raise an army because they think Trump may weaken NATO. Except Luxemburg funding their own defense is what Trump wanted in first term, because it is what strengthens NATO and makes it less likely other nations, like Russia, will invade them. They shouldn't depend on the US to sail across the Atlantic in time to save their people.
You are so completely full of shit. George Soros bends the ear of national leaders every fucking day and doesn't ask permission from anyone. Presidential transitions have included communications with important foreign leaders since the beginning.
Trump should tell Zelensky that if he reads about ONE MORE phone call in the New York Times then Russia can have the Ukraine.
Where is the evidence that any foreign policy was discussed? By handing the phone the Musk, it lends more credence that they indeed were just private citizens talking in their personal capacity to another person in the world. Musk has his own commercial dealings in that area, if I'm not mistaken.
If he was, Vindman will surely let us know. Unfortunately, the bureaucrat class in DC awarded Vindman with a House seat in Virginia.
"And probably someone on Zelensky's end leaked the call's occurrence to the Times."
Do not discount the possibility that it was made up out of whole cloth.
I'm sure Trump mentioned the Logan Act that was used to prosecute John Kerry so many times to Zelenzky and then ended the call.
John Kerry has left the conversation.
I have zero concern about Trump discussing issues that he will shortly be in charge of. It is, in fact, commendable to hit the ground running. Michael Flynn was railroaded over this bullshit issue.
Let's hope this a mole hunt setup by Trump.
How is it that the INSANELY RICH PEOPLE who live in Luxemburg (per capita GDP of $135,000, making it one of the richest countries on the planet Earth) have never funded the raising of an army to protect its citizens?
And why the ever loving fuck should I pay for their military?
Sadly, I don't think he is that intelligent. He needs to surround himself with some pipe-hitting ni ........
Yeah - I saw that. So lame. The Vindmans are corrupt.
The entire enemedia, which has been catatonically uncurious about anything Biden ever did, will now be springing into action and monitoring every second of every action taken by Trump in the continuing hope they can somehow ambush and wound him politically or legally.
Why would we believe the liar Maggie Haberman? Is this Russia Hoax 2.0?
In Defense of The Ukraine
1. The Ukraine has stripped out and weakened Russia's Army to the point that Russia is bringing in North Korean soldiers to do the fighting in the Kursk area. This has helped NATO.
2. The Biden administration built up a "combined arms" force in the Ukraine which however did not have an air element. The Ukraine has never complained but no one can think its Armed Forces liked that. So that shows the relationship is abusive.
3. The part of the Ukraine which Russia wants to take from the Ukraine contains almost all of the heavy industry in the Ukraine. So Russia is trying to turn the Ukraine into a colony by taking all its industry and leaving it a mere producer of raw materials.
5. So the Ukraine is between two abuserive powers. And in the US its main supporters are the rottenest group in America - Vindman, Bill Kristal, Liz Cheney et al. These are the only people The Ukraine has to defend it against the Biden administration and to make its case to the American people.
6. The Ukraine has helped us. And it has no one but Liz Cheney to help it.
I wish I lived in a better world.
Even if we didn't expect a massive electronic and surveillance intrusion continuing against the Trump Administration, which would be ludicrous, a conversation between Trump and Zelensky clearly can't be secure when one party has every incentive to leak it. I don't know why you're constantly bed wetting when President Trump is much cooler under literal fire, but it's making you look pusillanimous.
Now that the campaign is over it is time to catch up on grandkids, wedding plans and yoga classes.
This just in:
The AG Merrick Garland has decided to appoint a special prosecutor to determine if Trump violated the Logan Act. Several Republicans expressed concern over Trump's phone call. "It may be violation of the law", said Mitt Romney. While Mitch McConnell expressed concern. "We can't have two Presidents conducting Policy. If the AG thinks it merits a special prosecutor, we may have to hold hearings".
If the Russian Army is so weak that ten thousand North Koreans will be decisive in the war, then the AFU was composed of superhumans who have been completely devastated by this war.
Unfortunately, the only truth of that last sentence was the destruction of the AFU. Would that Cheney could be drafted to fight her war. Perhaps the front line is everywhere.
Foreign leaders from around the world have been calling the President-elect to congratulate him. It has been happening since phone calls could be made.
""We can't have two Presidents conducting Policy. "
I'm pretty sure that at least one of them isn't conducting foreign policy. So that makes 1 or 0.
This is a joke. Right?
Zelensky knows that the days of a blank check from the United States and NATO are over. If he can't prove to Trump that he has any reasonable path to victory, he will have to reach a settlement with Putin. (Which Trump will offer to help broker.)
Freder, "Well, there you go again." You're trying to slam Trump for doing something that is SOP for every new, incoming President. All winners of Presidential elections have phone calls and discussions with world leaders. As long as Trump doesn't officially negotiate a treaty, he's fine. Also, no one has ever been prosecuted for that law. Ever.
If the NYT says it happened, then it probably didn't. The reality is that in a few short days since the election, every world leader is trying to make contact with Trump. the leadership vacuum that was the biden,harris disaster, left everyone on their own.
Hamas has been asked to leave Qatar. The EU said they want to buy more natural gas from america.
The world has changed for the better in a few days. and the Dems just can't understand it. They think gender, abortion, and feminism are what matters to other countries. Well, not true. We won't see anymore fucking pride flags on US embassies again.
shorter. version. America is back bitches.
Biden was unable, or unwilling, to speak to Putin during his 3.5-year term in office. Probably reason why Ukraine war has dragged on for so long. Biden should have been impeached for sheer incompetence and dereliction of duty.
Harris also never attempted to speak to Putin, never attempted to perform any international (or national) diplomacy - not in her wheelhouse of talents. Harris should have been fired when she steadfastly refused her duties as "Border Czar", refused to visit border, refused to even minimally tackle a taskforce to address illegal migration explosion. Nope, she chose to go into deep denial, hide at her posh Navy Observatory VP home, sipping white wine and watching Netflix w/Dougie the Dog, until her late Aug 2024 call-to-duty from Pelosi - well we now know that abject failure to perform as VP magnificently backfired when she failed at presidential bid too.
“I don’t know what they discussed.”
What would Maggie Haberman be without Donald Trump? Hell, she probably voted for him.
In and of itself, talking to foreign leaders by the president elect is not a problem, provided it is done with the knowledge and consent of the current administration. Musk is an entirely different situation, as he has not been elected or appointed to anything.
Zelensky owes Musk money. Don is going to help Elon collect.
Well, there is a slight difference in majorities that are willing to listen to the bullsh*t, this time around
...that's embarrassing, Freder...
*sniff* *sniff* Hey! Did somebody just assert something, without evidence ?
Another fucking internet bozo nobody trashing Trump because he knows so much more than a man who has accomplished immense success in life and repeatedly proven his greatness. You fucking clowns can't help yourselves.
Brace - the corporate media are going to turn every little thing Trump does as illegal or a felony.
Dixcus
"Sadly, I don't think he is that intelligent. He needs to surround himself with some pipe-hitting ni ........"
You're really a stupid piece of shit.
Memories of obambi in 2014 and joey bag-o-dementia in 2022.
Makes sense though, considering how many millions russkis poured into the New Soviet Democratical party in the US.
John Kerry has left the conversation
..confirmed by the boys at NSA listening in...
Its still rather wild that Putin's oligarch pal, the ex-Mayor of Moscow, simply had his wife wire $3.5 Million directly to Hunter Biden's shell corporations which then trickled through to the rest of the biden crime family with the always required 10% to "the Big Guy".
An unimpeachable call.
I have a podium that has a sign with "OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT ELECT" that I want Trump to start speaking from.
The same podium Biden and Obama used after their elections.
And Freder can GFH. Prepare for the political wilderness you fascist loser.
National voter ID is coming.
Nice Catch!
The walls are closing in on Trump now.
Trump was just letting everyone know he has a little more flexibility now after the election.
Traitor! Putin Puppet! Reeeee!
Of course, the russki payments to the biden crime family are basically nothing ccompared to how much Putin and his pals dumped into the Clinton Foundation after Hillary worked with her pal Dir of the FBI Mueller to clear the way for the sale of most of the US Uranium assets to Putins oligarch amigos in the Uranium One sale as well as how much the ChiComs dumped into the biden crime family Money-pit archipelago!
""Trump was just letting everyone know he has a little more flexibility now after the election."
Indeed. I can recall what a tender, intimate scene it was when obambi, over a live microphone, promised Medvedev that with obambi leaning in close and just about stroking the russki's leg.
What a sweet memory of the obambi years......
LLR-democratical Rich: "Russia has broken pretty much every international law when it comes to respecting sovereignty, human rights, Geneva Convention, UN Charter, etc., etc."
Which is probably the very reason the New Soviet Democratical Party allowed Putin to do pretty much whatever he wants when it comes time to invading Ukraine, or having obambi literally invite Putin to put troops into Syria.
As long as the bidens get paid, the bidens and the New Soviet Democraticals and Abacus Boy LLR-democratical Rich appear quite happy.
Zelensky then noted he was using Starlink for the conversation, and Musk replied that he would keep sending more Starlink ground stations to Ukraine and then left the room.
"That's clearly illegal." - Freder Frederson
No doubt. Already we see LLR-democratical Rich slowly, inexorably, following the directives of his New Soviet Democratical masters, in pure online Harry Sisson "style", to lay the blame for everything the New Soviet Democraticals have done at Trump's feet.
But like most NPC voice-actuated morons on the left, which Rich most certainly is, astonishingly they have returned to the 2015/2016 playbook as if it is somehow relevant.
Its insane. Talking points now from almost a decade ago when the entire nation rose up and pronounced its judgement just a couple days ago.
Frankly, given the quality of Althouse blog, its embarrassing to even have Rich commenting here when he clearly, CLEARLY, belongs on Yahoo or Democratic Underground or The View Social Media page.
And the idea that our resident Harry Sisson, Rich, has any clue what he is cutting and pasting when it comes to military strategy, tactics is so beyond parody that it can be safely discarded without any further thought.
“LT. Col. Bearclaw Vindman reporting for duty, bitches!”
I'm getting a vibe that LLR-democratical Rich has fallen so hard on his rhetorical face that its just about time for another name change.
I'm going to guess it was a perfect phone call.
Of course it was. Remember that post a few weeks ago about being “educable”? You are educable, Professor. Beats a lot of your old colleagues.
Musk : "The legacy media lied to you." This is for Inga.
I saw where one of them won his race for Congress. What is wrong with the people in that district?
Speaking of elections, Trump flipped over 17% of California counties from blue to red.
https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/calfornia-counties-flip-to-trump-19897509.php
I’m happy for Trump to troll the world, especially the news media, and call every damn world leader on the planet. They can talk about the weather. Let Biden and Harris object.
That was the twin Vindman - not the Eric Ciaramella Mouthpiece.
I seem to recall Nancy Pelosi putting a handerchief over her head and traveling to S yria and Jordan for a little personal diplomacy all her own--and she didn't "get permission" to do that.
IDGAF what Putin says. Who was the guy who said that NATO was uncertain how to respond to a 'minor incursion' into Ukraine?
"clear the way for the sale of most of the US Uranium assets"
But I was assured 17 security heads had approved it! Or was it 51? 49? It's just so confusing sometimes.
Again another haberman byline
Zelensky called to congratulate Trump. Trump did not call Zelensky.
During Biden -- the media gave him non-stop soft touch, cotton ball coverage.
Now that the democrat hacks can obsess over Trump again - they can hand us all the ridiculous non-corroborated wish-cast halt-truth BS they want. sprinkled with their trademark mind-reading.
Cannot hate the BS Democxrat Corporate Media enough.
Impeach 45 again and 47 now, Impeach 45 again and 47 now............
Ah, Dixcus, if you build a national Army- you want to one of citizens. They could easily afford an army of mercenaries. But then- who would keep them from taking over? And with a per-capita GDP of $135,000 where are they going to find people willing to be enlisted men for what enlisted men are normally paid?
There's a multi-prong problem in place.
Trump said he could end the Ukraine War in one day, so we shall see if that it true.
They've never had a blank check to begin with. Since the beginning Biden has slow-walked aid to the Ukrainians, imposed restrictions on what targets Ukraine could hit, and generally tried to prevent any effective counter-attack against Russia. The administration may not want Russia to win, but they also seem to not want Russia to lose.
I see LLR-democratical Rich has fled the field of rhetorical battle faster than Stolen Valor "Dancing Queen" Walz!
LLR-democratical lonejustice gets permission from the rest of the Althouse LLR-democratical Brigade to offer a post and wisely attempts to keep it neutral.
Poor Freder. Your deep staters are going to find it impossible to make another run at the Gen Flynn - quisling Mike Pence setup deal.
So sit down. The adults, returning with America First Normalcy, are back in charge and corruptocrats Wray and Garland arent going to do a damn thibg about it.
And also being around when the Ukrainians, to help the New Soviet Democraticals, created the fake ledger books to setup Manafort to provide additional rationale to spy on and setup Trump...all the whike funneling billions to bought off US pols.
Remember, Manafort was partnered up with Frank Podesta and then what happened when the FBI came calling with never enforced FARA violations against Manafort? They gave Podesta a pass, let him quietly register for FARA, then went after Manafort with a vengeance.
Gwen Walz must be kept away from sharp objects. Maybe she's Inga's sister?
I wonder why nobody remembers that Trump criticized Obama&Biden for NOT giving the Ukrainians lethal weaponry like Javelin anti-tank missiles. Why do you think there might be a better solution than whatever Trump suggests, and will likely get implemented.
And that other guy, Musk, isn't he the one that provided Starlink internet to Ukraine (paid for by US)? Why do you think he won't continue to sell his tech in favor of Ukraine? I'd love to see him go into the drone business.
I wonder how many hits Haberman gets when she searches for her name every night before bed.
Having the Ukrainians burn up the Russians and the NORKs sounds like a good deal.
Fuck Mitt & Mitch if this true.
Not to mention normally reliable blue precincts in Cook County and Chicago flipped to red.
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