९ जुलै, २०२४

"The logic of the suit is balanced against the magic of the tie. The two together become symbolic..."

"... the gray or blue jacket reminds us of a common class background; the distinctive pattern of the tie orients us toward the wearer’s unique identity.... The tie could sometimes get so compressed in its significance as to lose its witty, stealthy character and become overly and unambiguously 'loaded.' There is no better story of suicide-by-semiotics than that of the rise and death of the bow tie, which, beginning in the nineteen-eighties, became so single-mindedly knotted up with neoconservatism, in the estimable hands of George Will, that to wear one was to declare oneself a youngish fogy, a reader of the National Review, and a skeptic of big government. The wider shores of bow-tie-dom—the dashing, jaunty, self-mocking P. G. Wodehouse side of them—receded, and were lost. It became impossible to wear a bow tie and vote Democratic...."

Writes Adam Gopnik, in "The Knotty Death of the Necktie/The pandemic may have brought an end to a flourishing history" (The New Yorker).

७९ टिप्पण्या:

Leland म्हणाले...

Less ties, more shorts. Is this really better?

tim maguire म्हणाले...

There's a scene on 30 Rock (so, roughly 2010) where the conservative Jack Donaghy is debating a left-wing think tank guy on a finance TV show. At one point, Donaghy says the guy's bow tie tells him this guy is a left-wing NPR listening egghead.

Kate म्हणाले...

Paul Simon, the Congressman.

Enigma म्हणाले...

Doctors "often" wear bowties because of their hand-on physical work and the messy body stuff they encounter during the workday. Regular long neckties are potentially unsanitary, even for ordinary wearers eating a meal or using a restroom.

My image of a bowtie wearer is an urban professor more than George Will. Will was on TV and more famous than the average professor, but there were likely many more left-wing doctors and professors wearing them in the 1980s.

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

In Iran, the necktie is thought of as a symbol of imperial and Western cultural oppression, most especially after the 79 revolution. It's why you never saw figures like Ahmedinejad or lay leaders wearing them, and why they don't show up in Iranian film or TV, unless the person wearing one is the 'bad guy'.

If you've ever travelled extensively in the Middle East Iranians are easy to spot since they don't wear thobes and mill about in suit separates without ties.

Good for them. Ties suck.

Greg Hlatky म्हणाले...

Bow ties only look good on 7-year-old boys and puppies. And some women.

Narayanan म्हणाले...

I better use trick soon

Scott Gustafson म्हणाले...

A tie is a safety hazard in the workplace. A bow tie less so but still a rope firmly knotted about the neck.

narciso म्हणाले...

George will like gopnik seems to have cut the circulation to his brain, not really a loss

Douglas B. Levene म्हणाले...

I just went to a black tie wedding where almost all of the men, including all the young men, wore bow ties. Everyone looked fabulous.

Shouting Thomas म्हणाले...

My entire men’s choral group wears bow ties and tuxes for concerts. We draw standing room only crowds in a huge, incredibly beautiful church.

I wear a necktie to all of my church accompanist gigs. From time to time, congregants and clerics tells me that that isn’t necessary, but I do it mostly for myself. Since I’m doing a job in a sacred setting, I feel it’s a matter of respect. Also sets me apart from my voluntary choir members.

narciso म्हणाले...

They should get back to the coke habits from bright lights big city

tcrosse म्हणाले...

I seldom wear a necktie, but when I do it's a bow tie, from the wider P.G. Wodehouse shore. It identifies one as an eccentric.

Maynard म्हणाले...

Leland said: Less ties, more shorts. Is this really better?

Definitely YES!

Now that I am retired and living in Arizona, I wear shorts 6 months a year.

In the past 8 years, I have only worn ties twice for nieces weddings.

Business dress tells people you are serious, and I no longer want to be so serious.

Alan म्हणाले...

Well, this is a small sample size, but I wore bow ties even before I stopped mostly voting for Democrats.

Michael K म्हणाले...

I wore bow ties for years. My medical students even gave me one. No ties now.

Magilla Gorilla म्हणाले...

In the excellent movie The Lincoln Lawyer, Matthew McConaughey wore a clip-on tie so clients in lock-up could not grab and hold him through the bars. Made sense to me.

john mosby म्हणाले...

The pocket square is kind of filling the gap left by the tie’s departure.

I have a lot of all 3 (long ties, bow ties, and pocket squares). Only the pocket squares get anything approaching daily use now.

JSM

Narr म्हणाले...

I've only ever worn bowties as a kid going to church or as part of the costume for weddings.

Now I think I might get some to wear . . . with shorts.

AZ Bob म्हणाले...

I prefer to wear a string tie with bolo made by Navajo silversmith Victor Beck (such as these).

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

How about the death of all ties?

Will people 500 years from now look at our ties and outfits like we look at codpieces?

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

@AZ Bob

Assuming you live in AZ (or any other 'Western' locale) that is very appropriate and I would do that too.

As long as I didn't end up looking like an urban cowboy...

Just an old country lawyer म्हणाले...

Back when I was a young city lawyer I wore bow ties most of the time. I've never associated the wearing of them with politics. In fact my best bow tie wearing buddy at church was a manish, progressive lesbian. By the way, that crowd (progressives, not bow tie wearers) is now obsessing over the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which seems pretty tame and won kush to me. I hope Professor A will do a thread on that soon. Sorry for the off topic portion of this comment.

Hassayamper म्हणाले...

The necktie is the slave-collar of the assistant night manager at Burger King. You know you're the boss when you can wear a Hawaiian shirt to work.

Birches म्हणाले...

Plenty of men still wear bow ties and neck ties in the South. It's definitely still a thing.

Old and slow म्हणाले...

In Ireland the old fella's still wear ties when they go to the pub, as do the publicans.

FWBuff म्हणाले...

For 35 years, I wore a tie to work every day. On Thursdays, the lawyers in my practice group wore bow ties for team building. Gradually since the turn of the millennium, fewer and fewer of our business clients wore ties, but we hung in there! Then came the pandemic, and ties (bow and straight) were one of the first casualties. Even though we were quickly back in the office full time, our ties didn't survive the transition. I wear them for the occasional meeting, wedding, or funeral, but no longer daily. I thought I would miss them, but I don't.

NKP म्हणाले...

I don't always wear ties. But, when I do... I feel good :-)

Shocked acquaintences say, "Holy shit! You clean up nice."

Frankly, the right jacket and tie (loosely knotted, of course), can be a power move if paired with a smile and a kind word.

etbass म्हणाले...

I always wore a tie at work.

It is an ornament of dignity and formality, and I think we have forsaken a lot by going with the slovenly look which more and more is becoming standard. Facial hair, piercings, earrings on men, tatoos, slovenly clothes all betray the same message, a lowering of standards, dignity and respect.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

Speak for yourself!

When I go to court, we male lawyers are required to wear neckties. My favs are from Ben Silver and especially the Inns of Court ties.

Martin L. Shoemaker म्हणाले...

As a programmer, I am congenitally opposed to ties.

As a science fiction author, I was encouraged to develop a signature look. I couldn’t decide until I saw an astronaut wearing a Saturn V tie. I wanted THAT tie. And when I found it, I found that the manufacturer has a whole catalog of geek ties on different themes: Astronomy, history, maps, anatomy, and more. I started the habit of buying a tie every time I sold a story (and sometimes for other reasons). When it was my decision and I got to choose the tie, I didn’t hate them. I have around 40 now.

And the signature author look works. The ties are ice breakers, and part of my brand.

James K म्हणाले...

My father, a liberal Democrat, wore bow ties. That was a generation ago, but even then it seemed flamboyant, a sign of being an extrovert (which he was).

I read somewhere that the origin of the regular necktie was a sort of scarf/napkin that was worn to protect the shirt from stains. This was when shirts (and cleaning them) were relatively expensive. That's flipped 180 degrees. Now you see people sometimes tucking their ties inside the shirt when they are eating so as to protect the tie from stains.

Aggie म्हणाले...

My dad, granddad, and uncle all wore bow ties most of the time. Of course, there's Charles Osgood to consider, too. I've worn them occasionally, but not often, usually with a tux. I've got a couple of bolo ties from my dad that I wear occasionally, too, if the occasion is right and my Armando boots are handy.

Narr म्हणाले...

I wore neck ties at work and when speaking in public (and often just a t-shirt when my duties required physical labor--some of us perfessers sweat) although it was not required. Non-academics take you more seriously when you do.

Only a few of my professors, and later my fellow professors, wore bow ties. I don't think the choices tracked very closely with their politics, though.

Marcus Orr, a campus legend, wore bowties because long ties didn't look good on him--a tall man paralyzed below the waist by a wound in 1945, and wheelchair bound for the rest of his life. He inspired me in a lot of ways, and was one of very few who tried to mentor me, but he was more of a clothes horse than I ever wanted to be.


RCOCEAN II म्हणाले...

the death of the tie is welcomed. I was once called into my superivors office in the 80s because I'd forgotten to wear my tie. This was followed by an "all hands on deck" office meeting where our manager gave us a 5 minute speech on ties.

Thankfully, I left that office within 6 months - to one that was more interested in results than dress wear.

RCOCEAN II म्हणाले...

Some men can pull off the "Bow tie", most cant and should stick to regular ties. Imagine Trump in a bow-tie - LOL!

Aggie म्हणाले...

When I was working in the Far East, occasionally if I was at a loose end, I would go over to the Ciputra Mall and shop ties. They had some of the most beautiful silk - sarongs, bolts, neckties, mens' shirts, etc, and beautiful batiks as well. But the ties ! Finest silks, beautiful colors, with intricate Jaquard weaving of geometric patterns. A beautiful interplay of color and textures. And they were dirt cheap! I must have a couple dozen.

Left Bank of the Charles म्हणाले...

I’ve owned a lot of ties, and favored bow ties for a couple of decades, but now have gone bolo. The key to bow ties is learning how to tie the knot properly. I was taught that life skill in the Future Farmers of America, along with the somewhat less useful but much more interesting skill of how to escort a fair queen candidate across a stage.

The FFA ties of my era were all clip-ons, now they offer standard and “pre-tied” options. The coolest part of the FFA uniform is the blue jacket, emblazoned across the back with the FFA logo and your state and local chapter name, like you were in a biker gang.

Rafe म्हणाले...

What this piece mainly communicates is that the writer doesn’t get out much.

- Rafe

William म्हणाले...

The tie is going the way of the fedora. It's dying a quiet, peaceful death. My own feeling is good riddance, but some here apparently love their symbols of oppression...I don't associate bow ties with conservatives or P.G. Wodehouse characters. I would think that P.G. Wodehouse characters would wear spats and boaters.....I've read that the priestly vestments are what well heeled landowners wore in Roman times back in the fourth or fifth century AD. I suppose the laity will continue to wear a tie for church and ceremonial occasions for the next few millennia, but it will be unsuitable (so to speak) for other events. I wonder who was the last man who wore a suit to a baseball game. Back in the fifties, most of the male patrons did.

NKP म्हणाले...

My own feeling is good riddance, but some here apparently love their symbols of oppression...

I would like to propose a version of a "drinking game"

How about every use the word "oppression", ban the the poster from further comment until they publish a full frontal nude photo of themselves on their "Profile" for 24 hours.

Rocco म्हणाले...

Hassayamper said...
The necktie is the slave-collar of the assistant night manager at Burger King.

Yup. In high school, the word was we should never wear a tie with a short sleeve dress shirt because it screamed “career fast food franchise manager”. Or maybe a freshman.

We had to wear ties to school. The exception was the first couple and last couple of weeks of the school year. The building suffered from the urban heat island effect, and didn’t get air conditioning until the 2000s - long after I was gone.

Caroline म्हणाले...

I just adore a man in a necktie. That goes for the bow.

Temujin म्हणाले...

Everything comes around again. Neckties will be back. People are already whispering in dark corners that they miss the 'Cary Grant' look in men. There are still young professionals who wear suits and jackets. I suspect more will come to the fore as we move through the next ten years. There's only so much sloppiness you can have. When you cannot tell the slacker from the CEO except by their car, things have bottomed out.

Also- bowties are most definitely coming back. With specialty lines, very expensive custom looks that I'm seeing in stores. You see it in the academic class. I see it in a younger relative, a doctor who is cut from a different cloth. And also a brother in law, different age, different part of the country, yet another professional looking for his look. Both lefties. Not George Will types at all.

As for me? Florida, July: Shorts and tee shirts, thank you.

I once wore a Bolo. It was in the late 80s. I had a restaurant in Buffalo, NY. One night I wore the Bolo to work. Almost got my head taken off by one of the 'regulars'. Never wore a Bolo again in my life. Some regions have their own looks and don't much abide another look crossing over.

Sofa King म्हणाले...

I always wear a tie to work, though it is not required and most of my coworkers wear polos. Usually a sweater vest too. However I only wear knitted ties, which are the most casusal kind of tie, and usually don't button the top button.

khematite म्हणाले...

In the 1960s, a prominent bowtie wearer was Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., a leading light among liberals. In 2002, when the NY Times reviewed his memoir, A Life in the 20th Century, it noted that "His book, like Mr. Schlesinger himself, wears a bowtie. It is the competent, neat and natty work of an accomplished and contented man."

Hassayamper म्हणाले...

I read somewhere that the origin of the regular necktie was a sort of scarf/napkin that was worn to protect the shirt from stains.

The first things we'd recognize as neckties were scarves worn into battle by Croatian cavalry 400 years ago or so, hence the name "cravat". They became quite the rage in seventeenth century France and made a jump from rough dirty soldiers to aristocratic fashion that still characterizes their wear.

Quaestor म्हणाले...

Temujin writes, "[B]owties are most definitely coming back.... You see it in the academic class."

I haven't noticed, though my contact with many academic acquaintances has been limited in the Age of Biden. I had one professor who habitually wore them. He was a widely published figure in the field of algebraic topology who dedicated an entire afternoon to explaining Euler-Poincaré characteristics to Quaestor the Nincompoop, not that it did me any good.

Nicolai, an immigrant from Poland, though you'd never guess by his Pennsylvania accent, always wore a blue suit and a bow tie. The suit always had chalk or dry-erase smears on the sleeves, understandable given his lecturing style -- intuit first, analyze later. But the bowtie was problematic. He always wore one of those horrendous velvet doohickies that came with the ridiculous clown suit high schoolers wear to the Senior Prom. I don't think he understood the context of that absurd neckware. At least he didn't wear a frilly shirt.

etbass म्हणाले...

is it possible that if men looked more respectable, they might get more respect?

PM म्हणाले...

For special events, I have a nice silver&turquoise string tie.

Biff म्हणाले...

Perhaps it is because the general standards of dress have declined so much, but I noticed during prom and wedding season this spring that women of all ages were swooning unusually hard at well-groomed men in suits and ties. A lot of women seem to love adjusting a man's tie, whether it needs adjustment or not. I would like to think that many of the men took note of this effect.

(That said, the trend of going sockless while wearing an expensive suit or tux continues. Unless it is a subversive plot against America, the trend is inexplicable.)

James K said..."Now you see people sometimes tucking their ties inside the shirt when they are eating so as to protect the tie from stains."

What is dying faster than ties? Tie bars, tie clips, and tie tacks.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Ties are about respect and decorum.

Only one time have I ever not wore a tie and coat to Mass. I was assured there would be no Mass at a Catholic school graduation. I felt naked.

Same goes for court, whether on a jury or testifying or in the gallery.

It would be nice if men started dressing like adults again.

Other than George Will and a young Tucker Carlson what other conservatives ever wore bow ties? We of a certain age associate bowie ties with tweed wearing college professors. Hell we of a certain age can remember gas station attendants, grocers and milkmen wearing them. I am none of those and I own five, wear them when the mood strikes me.

Thumbs up to etbass' comment.

KUDOs to Dave Begley, Ben Silver is top drawer.

Biff म्हणाले...

PS. I sometimes wonder if one of the reasons behind the decline of ties is the societal increase in obesity. Significantly overweight men often wear shirts with collars that are too tight for their necks, so they either force the collar to be buttoned under their ties, leading to considerable discomfort, or they leave the button unbuttoned, leading to a sloppy look. Also, if the wearer is not careful to maintain proper tie length, the result draws more attention to the man's weight. Similarly, a bowtie can look particularly awkward on a man who is substantially overweight.

mccullough म्हणाले...

Men don’t need ties anymore to distinguish themselves from the riffraff.

Long beards, arm tatts, and piercings distinguish the riffraff.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Hassayamper

And the suit coat, sports coat and blazer (a sports coat with metal buttons) are in reality just military tunics with buttons and buttonholes missing on what we now call lapels.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

When working at the bank, ties were required for all meetings. I have always despised anything around my neck and won't even button the top button. So...

They could require a tie but they couldn't require taste. I would shop around second-hand stores and find the ugliest ties I could. Two favorites were one that looked like a baby had spewed pea and carrot porridge and one split vertically in fuchsia and neon green.

Another was hand crafted. I'd found a '50s style with a Trojan warrior and his dog. Very low key brown with silver stitching. Until I unstitched one of the dog's hind legs and restitched it hiked up and pissing on the warrior's leg. Only one of the VPs, a good friend, got it after staring at it for maybe half the meeting. I gave it to him when I left the bank and he hung it on his door.

Once contracting, I never wore one again.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

Biff:
Also, if the wearer is not careful to maintain proper tie length, the result draws more attention to the man's weight.

Ala Oliver Hardy.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Biff

ZZ Top wasn't lying about a sharp dressed man. Chicks dig them.

Do an experiment, next time you "dress up" wear a nondescript tie like an undertaker. Second time go to a high end men's clothing store and spend more than $75 on a traditional tie with some pop, not a clown tie. You will get compliments.

The shoeless thing is mostly associated with Ivy League "go to hell" dress and has been around for most of the last century. It is mostly done with Weejun penny loafers, Topsiders, Stan Smith or Jack Purcell tennis shoes. I do it with button down collar shirt, tie and khaki drills. I've never got the opera slippers without socks, but it seems like Ralph Lauren started the trend and other designers followed.

By "tie bar" do you mean collar bar or my preference a collar pin?

The trick is not to chase fashion, catching it is fleeting. Find your own style.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

NKP:
How about every use the word "oppression", ban the the poster from further comment until they publish a full frontal nude photo of themselves on their "Profile" for 24 hours.

Boil it down so both sides can play - for every display of 'virtue'.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Oligonicella

Chipps in NY sold jockstrap club ties.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

MacMacConnell:
Second time go to a high end men's clothing store and spend more than $75 on a traditional tie with some pop...

Save some money and get the same tie from a thrift store for $2-4. Widows dump their husband's ties there.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Oligonicella

Depends on the taste of the dead and one's location. Yes I have friends in NY, Chi-town and San Fran who get great deals on Brooks Brother and other top end shop ties for damn near nothing.

Jim at म्हणाले...

My - since retired - gastroenterologist always wore a bow tie. Never the same one twice.

Upon retirement, a party was held at his house where he revealed hundreds - if not thousands - of them. Staff and close confidants were allowed to choose and keep their favorite.

Other than my current PCP (who got everything right on Covid and refused to knuckle under Jay Inslee), my gastro was the best doc I've ever had. He didn't make getting 'scoped something I looked forward to, but I came to not dread it.

Darkisland म्हणाले...

In 96 or so I was all set to go into the necktie business as my retirement plan. I was going to sell neckties on the internet and get rich.

In a lot of jobs neckties are dangerous. If your necktie gets caught in a machine, it will pull you in head first. If you are law enforcement, bad guys can grab your tie and strangle you. Flight attendents, bartenders and others can also be in danger.

In the 70s we had a corporate industrial engineer that used to visit from time to time. He would wear nice suits but the cheapest looking clip-on ties that K-Mart offered. I kidded him about it and he explained the safety aspect. Up to the 90s, most managers, even in industrial plants, were expected to wear ties.

It niggled at me for 15 years and then the internet came along. I was going to sell clip-on ties online. But nice ones. Comparable to what you would pay $15-25 for in Macys or Pennys. I went to a fashion trade show and talked to some suppliers. I found I could buy them as clip ons or pre-tied with a breakaway clip, for $3-4 each.

I was going to market them to women under the name Saf-Ties. "Have you ever seen what happens to a man who gets a tie caught in a machine? Not pretty. Keep your man safe. Buy him a 6-pack of Saf-Ties(tm)"

And so on.

But by the late 90s, ties went out of style really fast, especially in industry and my target market disappeared.

Thanks a lot fashionistas and style setters. You killed a nice retirement plan.

If anyone wants to run with this, be my guest. A taste would be appropriate if you do, though. Just as a courtesy.

John Henry

Darkisland म्हणाले...

Back in the 80s when I had a job, I was expected to wear a tie daily. Not a jacket, normally, but a collared shirt and tie.

Along about August 84, when I had committed to leaving at the end of the year (though nobody other than my wife knew) I stopped wearing a tie.

The plant manager tried to insist and I refused on safety grounds. I told him it was dangerous and I would only do it if he directly told me to.

I was able to keep HR and Safety dicking around with it, they didn't want to make a decision either, for 5-6 months.

My boss didn't love me though. But he hadn't before so screw him.

John Henry

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

MacMacConnell:
Depends on the taste of the dead and one's location. Yes I have friends in NY, Chi-town and San Fran who get great deals on Brooks Brother and other top end shop ties for damn near nothing.

Not a concern for me since at the time I was running my stunt show and cruised the city's second hand places for all sorts of accoutrement. I started buying up all the good silk ties for my SO, who cut them up and made the top for a Chinese dragon quilt. Quite beautiful. Open them, iron the silk and weave the guts into a dog pad.

I bought so many (still have a tub of them) that I drove the price up all over.

Mikey NTH म्हणाले...

We men are so lucky, the dark gray suit and white shirt is a uniform. Buy a few decent suits and we're good for a decade in our civilian uniforms. Women instead burden themselves with style and wondering if that outfit would work because "I am an autumn" or what ever.

Men? We get the uniform - dark suit, white shirt, black oxfords or wingtips - all we need are a dozen ties and socks running from somber to Luau in colors and patterns and we're set for years.

etbass म्हणाले...

At one of the churches I occasionally attend, no one, even the pastor, wears a tie. In fact, most of those on the platform look like they had just finished a Saturday raking the leaves and didn't bother to clean up, much less get into anything classy looking. I am sure the Lord overlooks this but even He must wonder...

With the overweight women crooning at the guitars and drums, I have to pinch myself to believe I am in a church service.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Mikey NTH

Most women chase fashion like a greyhound chasing a fake rabbit around a track.

But not all do. My ex-wife had as many suits and sportcoats as I do. Brooks Brothers made the same suits for women as for men, only the suits had skirts instead of trousers. Same with shoes, Alden and Cole Hann. Ralph Lauren made some amazing dresses and tweed jackets. The great thing was that she was a size 4 so the clothing was always on sale.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Oligonicella

There was a time in the mid 80s that women were buy old stock men's Ralph lauren ties on sale and having skirts made out of them.

I had a lawyer friend whose mother made a king size quilt out of Crown Royal bags. He later saved enough bags to have a tailor make a blazer out of them. He was a Kansas State fan.

JK Brown म्हणाले...

Yet another thing that hails from the 1920s we need to dispose of. Really, it's been a century of sartorial tyranny. The "older generation" has always "pretty well ruined this world"

"The older generation had certainly pretty well ruined this world before passing it on to us," wrote one of them (John F. Carter in the Atlantic Monthly, September, 1920), expressing accurately the sentiments of innumerable contemporaries. "They give us this thing, knocked to pieces, leaky, red-hot, threatening to blow up; and then they are surprised that we don't accept it with the same attitude of pretty, decorous enthusiasm with which they received it, way back in the 'eighties."

~ Gordon Pasha म्हणाले...

“Only a cravat! Oh, my dear sir! A cravat is the apotheosis of all neckwear! A cravat distinguishes a man of refinement from the merely ordinary. It sneers at the severity of the stock. It is the only item of dress that expresses true individuality. And whether it be made of lace or silk or the finest lawn it thrives on ingenuity, on originality, and above all, on personality down to the last skilled twist of bow or knot.”

Sir Percy Blankeney, The Scarlet Pimpernel

Balfegor म्हणाले...

Hmm. I should wear more ties . . . I usually don't wear them in summer, but I did wear one for an outdoor function on Saturday and it was fine, despite the heat and humidity. Linen shirt and wool fresco suiting made it tolerable. I occasionally think I might like another tie, but I have so many I can't really justify it. The last tie I bought for myself was, I think, a navy silk grenadine from Drakes. But rhat was years ago.

NKP म्हणाले...

Boil it down so both sides can play - for every display of 'virtue'.

I think I'd go with diversity

Biff म्हणाले...

MacMacConnell said...

"The shoeless thing is mostly associated with Ivy League "go to hell" dress and has been around for most of the last century. It is mostly done with Weejun penny loafers, Topsiders, Stan Smith or Jack Purcell tennis shoes. I do it with button down collar shirt, tie and khaki drills. I've never got the opera slippers without socks, but it seems like Ralph Lauren started the trend and other designers followed."

Sure, it's long been a phenomenon with summer suits and other casual fare, but I'm talking about formal suits and tuxes. I've gotten degrees from a couple of Ivy League schools, and I made it nearly fifty years before seeing the abomination of sockless men's shoes at a formal evening event. Maybe I'm still too "blue collar" to be a true Ivy League gentleman.

"By 'tie bar' do you mean collar bar or my preference a collar pin?"

Fair point. I was referring to the simple bars worn lower on the tie and the more mechanically involved clips worn at the same level. Collar devices are appreciated, but they fulfill a different purpose. Of course, they are rarer, indeed.

"The trick is not to chase fashion, catching it is fleeting. Find your own style."

100%! (Unless chasing fashion is your "style.")

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Biff
The closest I've ever gotten to an Ivy league school is a visit to Boston. Reading my writing is proof of that.

I do wear collar pins on my long point collared shirts. It's basically a brass safety pin and yes it makes holes in the collars. Only wear the pin with suits. the vast majority of my shirts are button down (Ivy).

I do business with many "blue collar" gentlemen.



Thomas म्हणाले...

In today's world 80% of the adult population does not ever get good news from anybody wearing a necktie. The only interactions they have with folks (of either gender) wearing are when they get bad news. Lawyers, Business People, Bureaucrats. Nothing good ever comes of an interaction with a person in a tie.
Thus, for many, anybody wearing a Suit and Tie is automatically suspect. Suits & Ties convey not the Honesty, and Serious purpose that many here report, rather they represent Oilyness, Untrustworthyness, and out right Dishonesty. I suspect, that for many commenters on this blog Ties are a marker of respect and professionalism. They are not. The worst people in our government, academia, and the media all wear suits and ties. And a huge bunch of these well dressed Con-Men have just been caught in one of, if not the largest Scams in the history of our Country. Our President is not capable of running the country due to mental incapacity. They have all known about, (Rep and Dem) and they have all LIED about it. For Years.....
Any wonder that many folks outside the cities, scorn Suits and Ties and the people who wear them?
Pol Pot's Child Soldiers killed anyone with glasses as being "Too Educated. Thus Dangerous". I fear there will come a time, when wearing a tie will be seen as a similar marker for dishonesty.
There was a Techno-Thriller novel many years ago that had it's climactic ending in Washington D.C., where Many Crooks, (in and out of the U.S. Govt.) were hung by their Ties from lampposts.
That I still recall that book all these years later shows how powerful the images were. As far as our 'Betters' are concerned, things have only gotten worse. Can anybody declare with a straight face that anybody in the D.C.-New York axis, is more Trustworthy, Honest, or As capable, as the same group 35-40 years ago?
Suits & Ties are the Uniform of the High Class Grifter in our Society now.

Biff म्हणाले...

@MacMacConnell - I've enjoyed the conversation! Thanks!

@Thomas - You wrote, "Suits & Ties are the Uniform of the High Class Grifter in our Society now." I'm afraid I've sometimes found myself feeling that way when pondering our political class, even though personally I'm very comfortable when wearing a nice suit. While I no longer routinely wear ties in my professional life, I do sport them on occasion, and I've become more conscious of how my sartorial choices may be interpreted by younger people in particular.