Writes Serge Schmemann, a member of the NYT editorial board, in "Student Protest Is an Essential Part of Education" (NYT).
By the way, that headline is close to what I wrote to my parents when I participated in a student strike at the University of Michigan, circa 1970. I am in possession of this letter, and I can only imagine what my parents must have thought. I went so far as to assert that the protesting was more educational than the classes themselves. And it's not as though they'd asked for an explanation. I took it upon myself to pontificate. The issue at the time was affirmative action. The chant was: "Open it up or shut it down." What did I know about the wisdom of a program of affirmative action? It seemed vivifyingly clear at the time.
पोस्ट्स
११४ टिप्पण्या:
Why this war? Why weren't they protesting the Russia/Ukraine war?
Why weren't they blocking walkways and occupying buildings to stop the Biden administration from sending billions of our dollars to pay for war machinery?
No, this is nothing like 1968.
In 2024 no students are facing the prospect of being sent to Gaza once their student deferment expires.
In 1968 the level and intensity of the student protests declined dramatically as the draft ended.
So, young people often get caught up with emotion and fail to think things through. It is the job of the adults running the universities to impose order on their unruly and immature charges. That's my takeaway.
"images from Gaza..." Yet they ignore the images from October 7th.
They don't want to grow up, they are Higher-Ed kids.
Certainly not like the 18-yr old men and women who go to work every day or stand a post on guard.
But let's be more discerning. The toddlers are coming from the humanities and social science(excl: econ) faculty and students.
In other words, those students pursuing studies that adds little to their economic capability. Yes, a magic parchment from these "elite" schools does have status and "ring-knocker" value.
What does 2024 Ann Althouse have to say about today’s campus protests?
My view is that these students are deeply anti-American and many of them are tribalists who hate Jews. Israel was minding its own business until it was invaded on October 7. Israel is fully within its rights to attack and destroy Hamas. The war ends tomorrow if Hamas surrenders and releases the hostages. The NYT skips that part.
And how come no stories about the leaders of Hamas living in safety and luxury in Abu Dubai? Yasar Arafait lived the same life in Paris. The Palestinians must be the dumbest people in the world.
I agree that protest is an important part if the college experience, but it the job of the university to mold these students into productive citizens, tempering their enthusiasm with the life lessons that lead to wisdom. The administrations are failing utterly in their duties.
it is to their students and teachers that they must answer
Typical mealy-mouthed nonsense from a someone who wants to appear good and thoughtful but lacks the character to speak hard truths. Firstly, the teachers are university employees. It is laughable that they “must answer” to the teachers. Secondly, they are not in the business of catering to the passions of impressionable children, they are in the business, as noted, of molding future adults. (Yes, I know, legally they are adults already. Not the point.)
"I am in possession of this later.." Darn you spell check ! (I'm assuming you meant, 'letter')
Today's campus protests are not near as heartfelt, I think. Many of the students are, to all appearances, trying to be fashionable. The insidious part of today's protests is the inter-protest coordination, where all of the campuses seem to be driven by the same volume knob, and under the instruction of a common director, when it comes to escalation. And of course the excellent supply function, where a simple phone call results in the appearance of tents, signs, t-shirts, and helpful operatives. Not to mention the function that prevents journalists from finding out what's going on - and in case any happen by, they are given the political grievance message to dutifully repeat and warned not to be found in the wrong place, without a handler. If it sounds like a page out of the Totalitarian's Handbook, it's because it is.
The university is the place where you can say anything that you think is true. Profess it. What's missing is the opposing voice, which has been shouted down.
Here, it's which side has been engaging in beneficial trade with the other side for decades, each time to be shot down or blown up by that other side.
One is moral behavior looking to a future, the other is immoral behavior looking to ancient grudges with modern weapons.
Like the Abraham Accords look to a future, as if Trump had the right idea all along.
Sure, antisemitism is bad, but even worse is when Republican's pounce!
Real affirmative action would have been making sure blacks had access to good education. the same as whites.
We are never to speak unto our children and our grandchildren about the 60s and 70s!
Unlike the affirmative action movement, it's not clear what these protesters want. Do the protestors even have a clear idea of what they want? It doesn't come across that way in the media.
Do they want a ceasefire? Okay, but then what?
Do they want "Palestine to be free from the river to the sea?" What does that mean to the students?
Do they want all Jews to pack up and leave Israel?
What do they want? Maybe they just want to protest. They like the way it makes them feel.
Protesting, yeah, buddy! If you do it right, it's better than a $750 IV drip...but not better than the $900 drip. Nothing is better than the $900 drip.
In '64 -'73 it was the draft. Once it was deep sixed the protests pretty much stopped. I know they did for me.
Who'da thunk it? Althouse was trying to shut down UM Law while I was a trying to keep it open. And here we are.
A friend of mine, born in '51 and college frosh in '69, said he attended protests at UT Austin to meet chics.
A friend of mine, born in '51 and college frosh in '69, said he attended protests at UT Austin to meet chics.
Althouse writes, "I went so far as to assert that the protesting was more educational than the classes themselves."
Eventus stultorum magister. However, this current crop of "protestors" (actually ideological mercenaries operating in the fine tradition of the Sturmabteilungen) are far too dense to take any lessons.
"My view is that these students are deeply anti-American"
And they think you are.
As far as I have seen neither of you have proven your point.
Mary Beth writes, "Why this war? Why weren't they protesting the Russia/Ukraine war?"
White people fighting white people, it's that simple and that scum-of-the-earth racist.
This editorial has been out there for almost a week-since before the retaking of Hamilton Hall. And it seems the Times editorial board no longer writes under that byline, only as individuals. Unlike, say the WSJ, they have had nothing direct to say in many days. My guess is that it is because of an internal civil war: the old Jewish guard vs the young intersectional recent J-school grads.
And I can only imagine the letters from the Upper West Side Jewish community.
Delicious.
I was at UC Berkeley in those days, and had an unfortunate draft lottery number, and classes were shut down, and I was opposed to the war . . . but I wasn't having this scene at all. I transferred to another UC campus that was still operating. That new campus then admitted Huey Newton, almost certainly an AA admittee.
"but it is to their students and teachers that they must answer".
Bullshit! They answer to the taxpayers, whose money, in the form of grants and subsidized loans funds all of these schools (and built their buildings and their enormous endowments). Even the "private" ones.
Even leaving that out, they answer to the donors and the parents. The faculty and the students are the two groups that should have no say whatsoever.
What a sorry excuse for both the demonstrations of 1968 and today. And Republicans pounce!
1. The Hamas attack required an Israeli response
2. The civilian deaths in Gaza are horrible
3. The First Amendment guarantees our right to express our views, no matter how unfashionable they may be. This applies to college students.
4. Free speech does not include taking over campuses, vandalism, assault, or preventing people from getting to school or work
5. Truly antisemitic views are ugly, but when they're only expressed in speech, no government has any legal or moral right to legislate against them.
6. I am not a foreign policy expert, and chances are you are not either. You and I are not required to have an opinion about what other countries should do.
7. You do not have to commit your entire self to a proxy culture war that's using a foreign conflict as a backdrop for unrelated unrest and strife in the US.
8. It’s logical to want the US government to act in the best interests of Americans and to stay out of conflict far from our shores.
AMDG @ 8:33,
You misspelled "1972", which is the actual last year any draftees were inducted into the army.
Berkeley was one of the ground zeroes during Vietnam, and it always seemed crystal clear to me that the protests were primarily driven by one thing: “I don’t wanna get my ass shot off.”
The war went on for another 27 months after January 1973, and the images were still on TV, yet there were no protests.
Can anyone remember an antiwar protest in this country if the US or Israel wasn’t a combatant?
Fuck. Off. Those students in the 60s didn’t give a shit until white middle class kids started coming home in boxes.
Most of the men involved in the protesting are just trying to get laid. Pretty pathetic really. Future cucks all.
Slaves in China, ethnic Springs in Obama come Biden's time, babies aborted in human rites, Fatah, Hamas, Palestinians pushing Jews into the sea for a century... diversity. We didn't force this progress, it's been the dreams of our fathers, and mothers past, present, and forward-looking.
So much emphasis placed on the way the students*feel* about war images as the reason, and seemingly little placed on the history, contex, and real suffering of the people on both sides impacted by the conflict.
And they call the men attempting to fight honorably in the wars baby killers.
Young people are passionate but are easily led. What a great opportunity to develop the skill of looking at all sides and learning to think for yourself. Too few take it, because passion overcomes reason. Only one side in this war has ever espoused genocide of a people, and it's not the IDF.
At Mich Tech in the late 60s, IIRC we had one anti-war protest. Classes, labs, and homework took too much time if you were a serious student.
Universities do have a serious obligation to protect Jewish students from antisemitism
Universities have an obligation to protect Jewish students from violence, physical threats, and harassment. To the extent those overlap with antisemitism they should be protected against. There is a difference between students chanting "From the river to the sea," and students finding Jewish students or professors, chasing them, surrounding them, and chanting "From the rive to the Sea."
Yes, their "horror" at the images from Gaza must be behind their repeatedly tearing down the images of those murdered, captured and tortured. Their "horror" at the video Hamas posted of Hamas' murders and rapes must be behind their wanting them removed from the internet.
Anyone who believes their "horror" is from upset caused by the vileness those images depict is a purposeful idiot. The "horror" is that the world is seeing in explicit, exquisite detail that can't be denied unless suppressed the true nature of Hamas and by extension, themselves.
One key question: Did you demonstrate against the violence or in support of the murderers? These demonstrations are in support of the murderers.
Big difference.
Mark writes, "As far as I have seen neither of you have proven your point."
"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."
"so many of today’s students have found the images from Gaza, now transmitted instantly onto their phones, to demand action"
Unlike images from Sudan and Nigeria.
"students demand that Columbia divest from companies profiting from Israel’s invasion of Gaza"
Which companies "profit" from the invasion? Are they OK with investing in companies that lose from the invasion? Or do they just want to disconnect from anything connected with the evil Joos?
"it is to their students and teachers that they must answer"
So universities are now to be run by plebiscite? Which I'm OK with, provided the left hothouses do not receive any tax support, direct or indirect
"not to Republicans eager to score points against woke 'indoctrination' at elite colleges"
Ah, yes, all those pouncing Republicans again. They're the worst.
"Writes Serge Schmemann, a member of the NYT editorial board, in "Student Protest Is an Essential Part of Education"
The blinkered ignorance and myopic politics on display here refute the title.
"What did I know about the wisdom of a program of affirmative action? I seemed vivifyingly clear at the time."
Which was very educational, for outsiders observing the arrogant folly of the "protesters." But in spite of all the public pushback to leftist shenanigans since then, the long march through the institutions worked and the left version of the civil rights revolution got institutionalized. The left learned it can win by losing.
Mark:
These protesters want to turn American away from our Western Judea Christian values to Islamist tribalism and Oriental values. The whole oppressor-settler thing. CRT and DEI. Forget about a color blind society. As someone commented above, there were no campus protests for the Ukraine-Russia war because both sides are white.
It is not unreasonable for college students, particularly at society has dubbed elite universities, to conclude they have something worthwhile to say that we / society should listen to. It is unreasonable for the society to bestow upon those students the mantle of maturity, knowledge, and wisdom that leads them to that incorrect conclusion. We would be better off passing the megaphone on to the 18-year olds who choose to be plumbers and electrician or to STEM college students. The irony is that neither of these would take it - they are busy working and studying...
I'm not buying these people care about Palestinians beyond a shibboleth. This war has been going on for months, and as noted, the Ukraine war even longer and some of the same students supported government spending and funding of the companies creating weapons for that war.
It is May Day and protest are routine. None of this requires deep analysis unless you plan to go after the financial backers to be held accountable for damages.
I’m disturbed by the easy acceptance of the comparison when the 60/70s protesters were largely grassroots student uprisings while the current events are funded by billion dollar special interest groups with the coordination of the Democrat party in an election year…
Blacks who loved BLM must feel left out this election cycle. Not that we’d hear anything about it…
Antisemitism underlies these protests - that is, bigotry. Moreover, they condone terrorism. Many are not students. They are disrupting education!
Interviews demonstrate that many of the protesters are wholly ignorant of the history, geopolitics and more. Genocide? "Palestinian" refugees in 1948 numbered maybe 700,000. Current population of "Palestinians" is 5 million plus. They are not refugees from anywhere.
These protesters are vandals and violent. The students are dupes. The drivers are Marxists and Islamists pushing respectively disorder and jihad. Small wonder the NYT editorialist favors them. The Times is evil.
""I am in possession of this later.." Darn you spell check ! (I'm assuming you meant, 'letter')"
Thanks. Sorry, this post had a few mistakes. I think I just omitted rereading it.
I can somewhat remember protesting Viet Nam actions as a young student at Michigan State in what would have been near the end of my freshman year, the spring of 1972. It spilled over onto Grand River Avenue, the main boulevard through East Lansing. And it started to get out of hand. There was National Guard around. I remember there was some tear or pepper gas. I was out there one day (it ran multiple days), kind of out of curiosity, also...none of us wanted to go to Viet Nam. But once out there, I was not feeling what everyone else was apparently feeling. I went with the flow for one day. Ran from there once the tear gas came. But what stuck with me to this day is not the war protest, but that some were chanting for Socialized Medicine Now! And I can remember thinking- even as a teenager- What is that? I'm not cheering for that. I don't even know what that means. I wasn't conservative then, but I knew enough to not cheer for what I don't understand. So I left. Clearly, the full Left was in command and has been on all of these for generations now.
That the Left is running these shows is the only thing the pro-Gaza/pro-Hamas protests have in common with the Viet Nam protests of the 60s/70s. In the 60s/70s most people were chanting "Hell no, we won't go!" Today's Gaza/Hamas supporters are shouting for the extermination of Israel and/or Jews. Very different things. Too bad so many don't see it.
Lastly- it has been mentioned in earlier comments, but the medieval carnage that was done to Israelis- mostly civilians, mostly women, children, seniors- is on video. The horrific record is there. But it has not been shown to the masses worldwide. What has been shown is very, very little, and not the worst of it. Frankly, I think it should have been shown almost immediately. Certainly at this point the world needs to know why Israel had finally said, "No more. Not another thing from Hamas."
I understand that the people and their families don't want further humiliation and indignity shown on their loved ones. But the world needs to see it. This world which has too easily found Jews to be the one topic they can all agree on. The videos are from both Hamas's own 'pleasure' shots to record what they were so proud of doing, and from IDF or Israeli first responders, who had the job of going in and seeing the carnage first hand.
If the video of what took place was shown, you would see those campuses clear out. Of those who remained you would then know, they are the heartless, the soulless ready recruits for Hamas.
"Bliss it was in that dawn to be alive But to be young was very heaven." Wordsworth captured the essence of the modernism, which makes youthful rebellion into a cult. Universities in particular have been the vanguard of that movement for the last 200 years, so it is natural that college students feel uniquely empowered to preach that gospel.
On the other hand, looking at my own long strange trip, the '68 protests were critical to my own evolution away from my parents' default Democrat politics. Biden represents a rot even more toxic than LBJ, and whatever allows 18-34 year olds to reject it is probably a net benefit to the republic.
Affirmative action, NOW (pun intended) affirmative discrimination under Diversity, Equivocation, and Indoctrination (DEI). Here's to progress (i.e. unqualified, monotonic change): one step forward, two steps backward.
Transpose these Jewish kids to Black students:
Universities do have a serious obligation to protect Jewish students from antisemitism and to maintain order, but it is to their students and teachers that they must answer, not to Republicans eager to score points
And what happens when they fail to act? And Jewish kids are called vile names, obstructed from area at the college, and protesters hail a fascist genocidal cult that wants to eliminate not only the only Jewish state, but Jews everywhere? If tables were turned, there would be a huge outcry from the current occupant of the White House, a federal taskforce, and an active law enforcement effort to go after the funders and every single protester. Facial recognition technology would crash given the extent of the reaction
Blogger Quaestor said...
Eventus stultorum magister.
To which the proper response is, In pace requiescat.
FAFO sounds much classier in Latin.
Blogger Quaestor said...
Eventus stultorum magister.
To which the proper response is, In pace requiescat.
FAFO sounds much classier in Latin.
We don’t know much but we know we are right? Let the inmates run the asylum? Too bad the academy doesn’t have any backbone.
" Universities do have a serious obligation to protect Jewish students from antisemitism"
Actually they dont. I love how the MSM in their editorials and newsstories always smuggle in their absurd premises into every article. No one can define "antisemitism" as a Rabbi recently said to Candance Owens, its "constantly mutating". LOL.
In reality, once you cut through the bullshit, antisemitism is anything jews want it to be. Which is an expression of Jewish Privilage. You'll also notice that this statement "Jewish Students" mean students that are ethnically Jewish. It has nothing to do with Judaism. So if you have two students with white skin and one considers himself "jewish" but an atheist. And another with white skin but Christian. Attacks on the Jewish student will land you in trouble and must be stopped. But attacks on the white skin Christian are OK.
Burn and American flag, no big whoop. Burn an Israeli flag, antisemitism.
I don't except Jewish privilage. I don't accept that "we" have to "protect" the wealthiest most powerful 2 percent of society. And I don't accept the idea that its so "grey" and "Complicated" that we should stop providing Israel bombs and weapons to kill innocent brown people in Gaz. Netenyahu is a war criminal and should be treated as such. We don't nuance and "Oh, my both sides are wrong".
Sadly, when I was in college in the 80s I Had no protests to go to. I would've loved to have skipped classes in order to have fun "Protesting" and be with my friends.
I think a large part of the current protests is '68 envy.
". . . and I can only imagine what my parents must have thought"
"Where, o where, did we go wrong?"
Thanks to the timely actions of the Columbia students back in '68, the good people of Harlem went on to lead fulfilled lives without the ugly presence of a college gym inflicted on their community. In some ways, a college gym is an even more offensive symbol than a statue of Thomas Jefferson. And, of course, although the people of Southeast Asia have many reasons to be grateful for their local Communists who showed the world what Communists are capable of if they are freed from imperial domination, it should be noted that their triumph would not have happened without the support and encouragement of students like those at Columbia in '68. Perhaps in their honor one of those halls, named after some white supremacist, can be re-christened Pol Pot Hall to honor their shared vision of the future.....What a previous generation did for the people of Harlem and Southeast Asia, these students can for the people of Israel. There's no reason to believe that the people of Israel cannot achieve the same level of joy that the good people of Gaza and Cambodia have already achieved. They only have to submit themselves to the kindly guidance of Hamas and Columbia students.
A friend of mine, born in '51 and college frosh in '69, said he attended protests at UT Austin to meet chics.
Yes. I was involved in barricading Sheridan Road (Northwestern U. campus) in 1971.
It was what I later called it: Friday afternoon at the Revolution. It was shocking to this HS senior how many college kids were getting high and getting laid for the Revolution.
To me, the biggest question is: Why have the West's elites denigrated all religions except militant Islam? These uneducated and easily-led students have been told their whole lives that (1) Christianity and Judaism are racist, sexist, and anti-science and (2) Islam is a religion of peace. Many might actually believe this. We are seeing the initial stages of the Islamization of our country. Who exactly wants this?
I’ve seen a lot of comparisons between now and the protests of the 70s. There are some pretty stark differences.
No US boots on the ground. You could make the argument that the US was the aggressor in Vietnam. In this instance Hamas was the clear aggressor. The student/professors are pro-violence (anyone who supports Hamas is supporting violence). In the 70s it was about peace.
Many of these students participating in the campus unrest today have purchased or been given a keffiyeh to wear, including the women although I don't think Palestinian women wear that.
(I'm wondering what the equivalent would have been in a 1970 protest in favor of affirmative action? Plaiting your hair into cornrows? Of course, today that would be considered cultural appropriation but maybe back then it would have been welcomed as a sign of solidarity. As I'm sure those in Gaza appreciate the donning of the keffiyeh by these albulha' mufida in the States.)
Yeah, come on all of you big strong men,
Uncle Bibi needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Gaza man
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Gaza man;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Yeah, no, I don't think we're going to get a whole lot of iconic music out of this one.
"The group’s organizer and senior Clemson student Abigail Friedman told The College Fix her group will remain on campus from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. every day until the university discloses its Israeli investments. She also said the group is hoping to put pressure on the state legislature. … "I don’t want my tax funds going to a genocide,” she said."
Her tax funds? LOL. Color me skeptical.
Students are dumb and easily led into folly.
If demonstrations and protests are essential to education, I lost out. When I was at Madison there was nothing of the sort going on except for a few loonies in the student government wanting to fund a trip for a different group of loonies to go to DC to protest the Shah. No one really cared but it did lead to the election of the Pail and Shovel party that planned to waste the entire student government budget on toys and games. And to bring the statue of liberty to Madison and sink it in Lake Mendota. They won and fulfilled all their campaign promises. To this day I'm proud of my party membership.
And it's not as though they'd asked for an explanation. I took it upon myself to pontificate. The issue at the time was affirmative action. The chant was: "Open it up or shut it down." What did I know about the wisdom of a program of affirmative action? It seemed vivifyingly clear at the time.
Only people who pay taxes or have children with two married parents should be allowed to vote.
Government employees should be barred from voting as well.
We were all generally stupid and ignorant until we got a real job and nobody really grows up until they have to raise children. People who don't have skin in the game should not be part of forming societal consensus.
The five-decade-old protest in Ann Arbor was totally local to the university and the issue was the expansion of black enrollment to 10%, which was the black Michigan state population percentage. Proportion stats made no more sense then, nor does it now since 30% of the population of Detroit was black at that time. And historically, no one has cared about the treatment or population percentage of other minorities.
Old and slow said...
So, young people often get caught up with emotion and fail to think things through. It is the job of the adults running the universities to impose order on their unruly and immature charges. That's my takeaway.
Age only provides the opportunity to mature.
And yet the old fogies, the right wingers and John Birchers were correct. It has led to widespread quotas disguised as targets and equity and draped in progressive bafflegab and bureaucratise so as to skitter around the plain fact that our government is explicitly favoring some races over others.
Chants. I despise chants. Especially demonstration chants. Adults shouldn’t chant. Unless you’re an indigenous person whose religion and culture uses them it’s just ugly cultural appropriation.
My idea of a college is professors and students. Administration should be strictly a support system for them.
That's not reality. Reality is massive state-supported institutions, where the administration is in charge because they have the money and they represent the owners. It's the same disaster that overcomes a corporation when HR stops being a service function, and starts issuing orders.
University administrations are primarily interested in protecting and growing their iron rice bowls. Secondarily, in promoting the political theology which they think will aid that primary goal.
My idea of a college is professors and students. Administration should be strictly a support system for them.
That's not reality. Reality is massive state-supported institutions, where the administration is in charge because they have the money and they represent the owners. It's the same disaster that overcomes a corporation when HR stops being a service function, and starts issuing orders.
University administrations are primarily interested in protecting and growing their iron rice bowls. Secondarily, in promoting the political theology which they think will aid that primary goal.
Heartless Aztec said...
"In '64 -'73 it was the draft. Once it was deep sixed the protests pretty much stopped. I know they did for me."
I dropped my deferment in '71 and in the next drawing I was 323. It wouldn't have mattered because I had a heart murmur and they didn't want me anyway.
Mark said...
"My view is that these students are deeply anti-American"
And they think you are.
As far as I have seen neither of you have proven your point.
Except the part where they are literally chanting "Death to America" right?
Women always go by whether the guy seems to mean well, not by whether it will obviously fail.
I'm reminded of two quotations about the error of taking young people's views seriously. One attributed to Mark Twain: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
The second from Flannery O'Connor--it's about "taste" but applies equally well to "views": "And if the student finds that this is not to his taste? Well, that is regrettable. Most regrettable. His taste should not be consulted; it is being formed."
have students seen all the horrific images? or only the curated ?
To me, the biggest question is: Why have the West's elites denigrated all religions except militant Islam? These uneducated and easily-led students have been told their whole lives that (1) Christianity and Judaism are racist, sexist, and anti-science and (2) Islam is a religion of peace. Many might actually believe this. We are seeing the initial stages of the Islamization of our country. Who exactly wants this?
"Horrific images" you say?
We spend tens of billions of dollars in Ukraine and haven't seen so much as a Polaroid of the war on the evening news.
Does that war even really exist?
Or are all of the Ukrainian youth partying their asses off in Kiev because they're living the life of Riley on US tax dollars?
"Real affirmative action would have been making sure blacks had access to good education. the same as whites."
KKK Democrats are racist to the core and oppose school choice.
Which makes sense as they hate black people...
I registered for the draft in the spring of '71, and went to college with 1S or 1H status until the lottery pull, when my birthday was in the low 300s. Short of alien invasion, I wouldn't be asked.
Meanwhile years of exposure to VN veterans, whether lifers or guys just a few years older than I was, led me to conclude that the whole thing was a fool's errand. "The unwilling doing the unnecessary on behalf of the ungrateful" was pretty close to the truth.
There was a generalized antiwar sentiment on campus, and even a few protests and marches.
Once we marched in the downtown, miles from campus. The MPD (and who knows who else?) was careful to photograph all of us from slow-moving cars. Our main speaker was Dr. Dalvan Coger (PBUH), a retired Army noncom turned history prof, who riffed on the arrogance of empire.
Some historians have 'proven' that we shoulda coulda and woulda won if we had only had willpower. Or, as I always hear it--VILLpower!
Apparently the images on their phones from October 7 had no similar impact.
Youth is wasted on the young. - Shaw
One (of many) teeny-weeny little difference:
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, and don't hesitate
To send your sons off before it's too late.
And you can be the first ones in your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
Temujin:
The Israeli government produced a film showing the full story, but it was only shown to a select audience in a few cities. Power Line’s Scott Johnson saw it.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/12/after-the-atrocity-video.php
Scott Johnson’s post on the atrocity video with internal leaks to other accounts.
Biggest contributors to Biden are funding pro-Palestinian anti-Semitic shitbirds, per Politico.
Unexpectedly and I. AM. SHOCKED! /sarc
@ R C Belaire said “At Mich Tech in the late 60s, IIRC we had one anti-war protest.”
That would be the “Moratorium.” Google tells me that was on October 15, 1969. I was in ninth grade. We knocked off school and went to the “teach-in” at the student union. The cafeteria was packed with people and there was a series of speakers for and against. I only remember one speech by a history professor whose kids I knew.
The way I remember it, it was a very constructive and civilized debate about the war, what brought it about, what was going on, what should be done . . . . Emotions ran high that day, but people were thinking and exchanging ideas——unlike so much of what appears to be going on today.
From the post:
"The issue at the time was affirmative action. The chant was: "Open it up or shut it down." What did I know about the wisdom of a program of affirmative action? It seemed vivifyingly clear at the time."
I don't doubt it seemed that way to you, but to the organizers there was an unstated subtext.
Temujin said...
"But what stuck with me to this day is not the war protest, but that some were chanting for Socialized Medicine Now! And I can remember thinking- even as a teenager- What is that? I'm not cheering for that. I don't even know what that means. I wasn't conservative then, but I knew enough to not cheer for what I don't understand. So I left. Clearly, the full Left was in command and has been on all of these for generations now."
Thus was it ever, so it is now.
Hubert the Infant said...
"To me, the biggest question is: Why have the West's elites denigrated all religions except militant Islam? These uneducated and easily-led students have been told their whole lives that (1) Christianity and Judaism are racist, sexist, and anti-science and (2) Islam is a religion of peace. Many might actually believe this. We are seeing the initial stages of the Islamization of our country. Who exactly wants this?"
My take (YMMV) is that (1) it's convenient for them to seem inclusive at comparatively low risk to their status, and (2) they secretly admire the degree of control Islam has over its adherents.
In good news, apparently Missouri MAGAs have kicked RINOsout of the leadership, elected their own and adopted a MAGA platform.
Llrs like our official dick hardest hit.
John Henry
Ann Althouse said...
""I am in possession of this later.."
**********
"I still have this letter" would have avoided the flatfooted legalese, n'est-ce pas?
Rusty,
Also, by 1973 we had 50 (as in fifty) troops in VN.
Hard to work up much enthusiasm to protest that level of involvement.
John Henry
RCOCEAN II said...
****************
OK, now explain why Jews in 1930's Germany, who were also in the richest and most educated cohort, didn't deserve to be protected against assault, arson, and (eventually) mass murder.
You keep falsely claiming Genocide is happening in Gaza, while you ignore what actually happened to Europe's Jews, by the millions.
That makes YOU a Jew-hater. One worth keeping an eye on.
My lottery number was 244 (a number I will never forget), so I knew I wouldn't be drafted or sent to Viet Nam. Yet I still protested the war and attended several anti-war marches. I thought I was being idealistic at the time, but now I know I was just being stupid.
Obviously the 20-somethings should be running the country while they still know everything.
/sarcasm
Protests are a luxury good.
Student protest is not an essential part of education.
When I went to college, I never participated in any protests and no one I knew did. It just wasn't a thing in the 1980s.
What I did do was to work on theatrical productions that shed light on important social issues. That was much more effective than standing in front of a building and shouting slogans at people.
This is classic and so emblematic of this discussion section:
Mark said, "’My view is that these students are deeply anti-American.’ [quoting Achilles]
And they think you are. As far as I have seen neither of you have proven your point.”
And Achilles points out, “Except the part where they are literally chanting ‘Death to America.’”
Perfect.
It's all a part of the Fundamental Transformation.
At least Kristi didn't eat her dog, like at least one politician did.
Discus Queers for Palestine.
Don't be too hard on yourself, Althouse. You literally are in possession of this later (presumably because one of your parents was a bit of a hoarder). As a corrollary of George Constanza's rule (Not a lie if you believe it), you don't have to apologize if a misstatement happens to be true.
Rusty said...
"It wouldn't have mattered because I had a heart murmur and they didn't want me anyway."
One of the selling points for entering the Tool and Die trade in '76 was that you would automatically receive an occupational draft deferment if it restarted.
". . . and I can only imagine what my parents must have thought"
"Honey, I told you we shouldn't have let her wear that skirt!"
The government subsidizes higher education. They have every right to complain on how the money is being spent. If I was investing or donating to a school and this was the result, I would be quite angry on how my money was being squandered.
Of course, I would also be very angry with the huge number of useless administrators, the obvious political bias in hiring, the absurd rises in cost despite being subsidized, the massive amounts of student debt that the schools are intentionally creating, etc.
Higher education is at an existential crisis. Unfortunately, at least for them, they don't seem to realize this.
My reaction to the headline ("Student Protest Is an Essential Part of Education") is "Bless your heart"
"Student Protest is an Essential Part of Education."
In eight words you have the moronic mindset that has so contributed to the massive collapse in educational achievement over the past 50 years. Find a syllabus from 1964 and compare it to one for the same course today. The workload has been reduced by about a third and the difficulty by 50%. Yes, even in STEM courses. If you held current students to the same standards as the class of 1964, 2/3 of the class would fail.
For the past 20 years we've been skating along because improvements in information technology disguised the decline in almost every discipline, but across the board people are simply not as well educated as their predecessors were in exactly the same jobs, colleges, offices, etc. But don't worry, because they've gotten a healthy dose of "Protest."
The last people from the last generation of really well educated people* are now retiring, and there aren't replacements. What's worse is that people under 40 don't even know how much less they know than their predecessors. In fact, they think they are BETTER educated because they have more credentials and merit badges.
But that doesn't matter, because "Protest is an Essential Part of Education." Too bad education isn't an essential part of education.
*The same people who wrecked the educational system for the subsequent generations because it was too hard to teach the rigorous, old-fashioned way in which they'd been educated, and, probably, because there wasn't enough opportunity to give students their essential dose of "Protest" and still teach them all the actual content that they needed to learn. Something had to give.
RCOCEAN "No one can define "antisemitism"
All they have to do is read your posts.
"" Yet they ignore the images from October 7th.". Oh I don't think that they ignore them, they believe that those slaughtered deserved every bit of it. They also think they would do the same should the opportunity arise. They are true believers in their antisemitism.
"The unwilling doing the unnecessary on behalf of the ungrateful"
Thats a great line. Maybe the only good thing that came out of the Vietnam war is a lot of people stopped thinking we had Great Men in Washington and that we had to FALL IN LINE AND SUPPORT OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF whenever they decided a war was neccessary.
We finally got rid of the draft, and people realized that Ike's warnings against the Military Industrial complex was correct. Too bad that lesson has been forgotten.
I respect the men who fought. And fought bravely and well. But the war made no sense since LBJ had no intention of winning. In fact, he couldn't tell you what Winning was. We were just supposed to send troops and fight and eventually the North Vietnamese for some reason come to their senses and negotiate a peace. Except they didn't want to "reasonable" they wanted to win. They got the Paris accords in 72 and when they saw their chance they won.
"Universities do have a serious obligation to protect Jewish students from antisemitism and to maintain order, but it is to their students and teachers that they must answer, not to Republicans eager to score points against woke 'indoctrination' at elite colleges ... "
Then the universities should start protecting all students, maintaining order and scoring all the points themselves.
You might be an anti-semite if:
You deny Jews have any inherent connection to the land of Israel, but when protesting against the policies of Israel you insist on targeting all Jews, even young students at universities because they are Jewish.
You accuse Israel of genocide and "oppression" of the Palestinian people in Gaza for the last 75 years while ignoring that the fact that the population of Gaza has increased since 1950 from 250K to 2 million. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1422981/gaza-total-population/). Plus you expose that you don't know the history that Gaza was ruled by Egypt from 1948-67, and during that time no one was demanding a free state of Palestine because Hamas and Fatah were at each others' throats. IOW what ultimately destroys the lives and futures of Palestinians is not what Israel is doing but is a product of the ideological differences between Muslims. And yet you put the blame solely on "the Jews."
@guitar joe 4:18 LOL
The MSM is always derailing. They want to talk about anything EXCEPT the Israeli genocide of the Gazans. Guesss 33,000 people getting blown up by USA supplied bombs for no reason isn't news, because they're brown arabs.
Unlike a privilaged Jewish students at an Ivy League university may have heard a rude comment. Now, that's national news!
BTW, I've noticed that at several those these universities particularly in the South and Texas the authorities are taking violent action against the protesters. Teargas, riot squads, arrests, demasking, anyone not cooperating may get a bash on the head. Quite a change from BLM/Antifa riots where the police knelt before the BLM protesters in solidarity (or cowardice).
We not only have two standards of justice, we have four. First, Left vs. Right. And now Zionists v. Pro-Palestinians. Get in the right group and you can do anything and get a wrist slap - if that. Be in the wrong group and its teargas and billyclubs.
“These protesters want to turn American away from our Western Judea Christian values to Islamist tribalism and Oriental values. The whole oppressor-settler thing…”
Just as the theory that the Palestinians were the indigenous population in Israel, we have the same thing here. Daughter goes to church in Boulder (CO - what we call the PRB). And at the end of the service there was an affirmation that they were living on appropriated land, of the Ute, Cheyenne, and Arapaho. The problem there is that the latter two tribes hadn’t moved there until the very late 1700s, and Whites had taken it over by the mid 1850s. Maybe 60-70 years, and the rest of us have held it for more than twice that.
I was following down rabbit holes the other night, and was surprised to discover that both of those tribes were essentially farmers, living in maybe the WI/MN area, and were pushed off their land by other, more warlike, or larger, tribes. With horse, and ultimately guns, they, along with the allied Sioux, were able to flourish, by following and hunting bison. BTW, these tribes pushed the Blackfoot over the Continental Divide into where we live in MT, pushing the Salish further west, forcing the closure of the fur trading post just east of where our town is. That fur trading post flourished for somewhere between 20-40 years, starting in 1811. All from the Sioux, Arapaho, and Cheyenne having been pushed out of their ancestral lands, into the NW plains.
and just like 1968 the students seemed unaware of the atrocities by the VietCong or the tyranny of the communist government of North Vietnam, because no one was showing it to them.
And these boomers continue to congratulate themselves on their courage in opposing the war, but never bothered to notice the massacres, ethnic cleansing or the Chinese population living there, persecution of Christians, the, refugees, boat people, reeducation camps, or the starvation brought on when the communists started running the economy.
https://www.history.com/news/vietnam-war-refugees
If Hamas/Iran wins, one will see a similar catastrophe. Heck, Iran's proxy in Syria has already led to 300 thousand dead and 14 million refugees. But never mind: it's not trendy to mourn them because it's not in style.
Gaza is the lawless far baby that Egypt stuck onto Israel after trying for years to solve “the refugee problem” with the former residents of Jordan. How that turns the newly named “Palestinians” into the indigenous people of Israel is the result of propaganda and amazingly positive PR by an uninquisitive international media.
"Student Protest Is an Essential Part of Education"
Apparently, I didn't get my money's worth in college. I got my BS & MS and never once attended a protest. None of my friends did either. I even made lifelong friends and memories without violently occupying a university building.
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