२९ ऑक्टोबर, २०२३
"Joshua Seal was among a group of about 10 deaf people playing cornhole at Schemengees Bar and Grille on Wednesday evening..."
"... when the shooting started.
He was the father of four deaf children who attended the Governor Baxter School for the Deaf in Falmouth, Maine. Seal was a deaf-certified interpreter and was well known in the community for providing critical interpreting services during the pandemic.... Billy Brackett, a devoted father and husband... was competing in a cornhole tournament for deaf people at Schemengees Bar and Grille when the shooting occurred.... Steve Vozzella, 45... was one of the deaf cornhole players who died... He got married last November, and was the father to two kids... Everywhere Bryan MacFarlane, 41, went, his Shih Tzu named M&M went with him.
'He brought his dog with him in his truck everywhere he went'.... MacFarlane was among the deaf cornhole players who was shot and killed at Schemengees Bar and Grille last week...."
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My understanding is that, despite Bruen, Maine's firearms laws are still fairly restrictive. I wonder whether the carnage that resulted could have been mitigated by several trained concealed carry permit holders being able to return fire. I'm pretty sure that would be the case here in South Central Texas, where even grandmas are trained and armed.
Innocent people slaughtered because of mental illness.
We see it locally - we see it in the Islamic world.
It's all too much like a Cormac McCarthy story/movie.
Boy those comments at WaPo are incredibly racist and inhumane -- no, inhuman. Ranting about white men when it was courageous, gentle, decent white men who were nearly all of the victims.
And I'm sure many of them owned guns too. That doesn't make them evil. There are several stories of men protecting the women and children and confronting the killer. I'd be proud to live in a place like that, with real men like that.
Gun ownership is very high in Maine but the murder rate is very, very low. This guy didn't kill because he was a white man: he killed because he was mentally ill and paranoid and evil.
The Washington Post readers are a sick, obsessed bunch. If you have any doubts that these people would put you in a concentration camp if they could, just read the comments after the article. Pure, undistilled racism and hatred.
fairmarketvalue said...
I wonder whether the carnage that resulted could have been mitigated by several trained concealed carry permit holders being able to return fire.
Bowling Alley Where Maine Attacker Fatally Shot 7 Is a Gun-Free Zone
Behind a paywall because of course it is. But if there’s no place to run to and no place to hide, then rushing the shooter is the best tactic. The “Pulse” nightclub in Orlando, the school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, and the Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas, show what happens when you rely on the police to stop a mass shooter.
Always fight back.
I'm looking at the first comment; "My understanding is that, despite Bruen, Maine's firearms laws are still fairly restrictive..."
Well that's completely incorrect. Maine has no registration of long guns or pistols. Maine has permitless carry of concealed pistols. No permit is required for purchasing long guns or pistols. Your idiotic "point," such as it is, is meritless.
The NRA summary page for Maine gun laws.
Notwithstanding Maine's nonrestrictive gun laws, as well as a healthy gun culture surrounding hunting, I think a lot of Mainers don't want to live in a self-defensive gun culture. As a matter of choice.
It would certainly be my choice. As a gun-owning hunter (four long guns; a double shotgun for upland birds, two pump action shotguns for turkey and waterfowl, a bolt-action rifle for deer) I would rather live in Maine, with or without its current gun laws, than in Texas. I do not want to live anywhere near a bunch of hillbilly Texans who support criminals like Donald Trump and Ken Paxton, and who are armed to the teeth with semi-auto weaponry.
Maine had gun laws like the laws that the hillbillies of South Central Texas worship, and it didn't stop a semi-auto carbine chambered in .308 (!?!) in the hands of a deranged owner of that firearm from killing or wounding more than a dozen innocents.
As MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell rightly points out time and time again, he is satisfied to blame the first two, or three, or four victims of a mass shooting on the derangment of the shooter. But the blood of the next 14, or 24, or 44 victims are all on the semi-auto rifle with the capacity for rapid replacement of high-capacity magazines.
Guns don't kill people crazy people with guns kill people. Not a very well regulated militia. Apparently the murderer did not hide the fact that he was crazy as a loon. The first priority when people self identify like that is to make sure they are not armed.
I really really am sick of these mass shootings.
With mental illness and mass shootings, we have a problem it is going to take serious people to solve. Sadly, few of our politicians are serious.
Blogger Chuck said...
... I do not want to live anywhere near a bunch of hillbilly Texans who support criminals like Donald Trump and Ken Paxton, and who are armed to the teeth with semi-auto weaponry.
So you agree - people are the problem, not guns.
Why is 'hero' in quotes?
When will the idiots who think it's clever to hang a sign that says "Gun Free Zone" learn that you will get the opposite.
It is an inadvertent to nutters and criminals that they can shoot at will and no one will stop them.
'
Ibid RideSpaceMountain. If you acquiesce, you die. You may choose that option but I'll stand next to him, thank you.
Chuck - Texas thanks you for not choosing to live there.
A person who has made threats and is demonstrating mental illness is an appropriate candidate for forcible disarmament.
I'm sick of Chuck's slurring, authoritarian hate-mongering. Hillbillies? People he would call hillbillies are among the most decent people I know. People in Texas did not commit those murders. My "hillbilly" handiman would spend half a day pulling your car out of a ditch, Chuck, even if he knew precisely what you thought of him.
And he wouldn't take a dime for it.
By your logic, any of the victims who voted for Trump deserved to die.
Such schadenfreude is ugly stuff.
The first comment on this page referenced Texas gun laws.
A subsequent comment (citing to John Lott) noted that the Lewiston Bowling alley and Shemengee's bar were effectively "gun free" zones which made them vulnerable to attack.
But Texas gun laws, like most states which liberally permit concealed carry, forbid concealed carry in bars (defined in Texas as places where 51% of revenue is derived from alcohol sales).
Bars in Texas, if following Texas law, are essentially gun-free zones.
When your first and only solution is to penalize and punish those who did not perpetrate the crime, did not participate in the crime, and in general are more law abiding and responsible than the average, you're doing it wrong ,on purpose. This scumbag and his mental deficiency were well known by multiple government entities. But minimal effort was made to protect the public, and describing those efforts as minimal is being very generous. Of course all of the usual idiots are calling for more laws !, bans of scary looking guns, etc. Because gun controllers are spineless cowards, chicken shit pussy shit heads. None of them, not a single air wasting turd among them has the courage ,the balls, to confront the source of the problem. The criminal, the idiot who perpetrates these crimes. This turd, like so, so many others was well known to law enforcement, well known to multiple government entities who did little if anything. None of them will suffer any consequences, none of them. But every pussified asshat will demand that the innocent, law abiding, public be punished . Fuck everyone of you spineless cowardly turds. You are all ignorant fascist twats who should experience that which your deliberate tyrannical actions perpetrate on the public. Would that you and yours experience what happened in Maine. Your ignorance, incompetence, and your self serving bullshit have earned it.
I think a lot of Mainers don't want to live in a self-defensive gun culture.
That may be about to change.
I don't see how the type of armament matters. It looks like this guy could have carried this out with a handgun and reloaded as often as he wanted.
Tina Trent said...
I'm sick of Chuck's slurring, authoritarian hate-mongering. Hillbillies? People he would call hillbillies are among the most decent people I know. People in Texas did not commit those murders. My "hillbilly" handiman would spend half a day pulling your car out of a ditch, Chuck, even if he knew precisely what you thought of him.
I'm glad you mentioned the decent, hard-working, community-minded, church-going, practical, knowledgable, helpful people of rural America. I was not talking about them. And for them, expensive and exotic semi-auto AR-style rifles ought to have little importance. Those weapons have practically no traditional or practical value. A handiman with a shotgun just like one of my own is certainly no one I want to insult. A handiman who cares little about political stunts is no one I want to insult.
I want to insult the Fox News fans.
Count on "Chuck" to be an ass.
My original comment regarding Maine's firearms laws was based on my "understanding" which, if he is correct, was in error. Nevertheless, if I were to respond in kind to his ad hominem comments regarding my understanding Maine's laws, as well as his comments regarding Texas' laws and people, I would advise him to pull his head out of his rectum and smell the reality.
Texas law does prohibit firearms in establishments which derive no less than 51 percent of revenue from alcohol sales, but that really just means bars; not necessarily as he might imply, restaurants and other entertainment venues. Indeed, unless a private establishment, e.g., a restaurant, church or grocery store, chooses to restrict firearms by posting a notice with the exact language of the statute authorizing that restriction, concealed carry and permit-less carry are allowed. The difference between what Chuck presupposes and what is the case here is that in Texas it is unusual for a private establishment to restrict firearm possession (concealed or permit-less, or both). I don't know if that attitude is the case in Maine, but I'm certain the widespread and routine carrying of firearms would go a long way to mitigate, as I originally said, the carnage in Maine.
I also know I'm grateful as hell to be with all the other hillbillies here while Chuck continues "practicing law" in Michigan, or darkens the door of the good people of Maine.
C'mon Chuck. Come on down to God's country and I'll even buy you some beef brisket for lunch, and then we can go to my local target range and find out who's the better shot.
"But Texas gun laws, like most states which liberally permit concealed carry, forbid concealed carry in bars (defined in Texas as places where 51% of revenue is derived from alcohol sales).
Bars in Texas, if following Texas law, are essentially gun-free zones."
So in spite of Texans being gun-worshiping maniac Trump-voting MAGA hillbillies, they apparently passed precisely the law that you think is the law they should have.
And apparently this makes the argument that such laws expose innocent, law abiding citizens to attacks in such "gun-free zones"...wrong?
Tina Trent said...
"I'm sick of Chuck's slurring, authoritarian hate-mongering. Hillbillies?"
Chuck responded...
"I'm glad you mentioned the decent, hard-working, community-minded, church-going, practical, knowledgable, helpful people of rural America. I was not talking about them... I want to insult the Fox News fans."
So Chuck is trying to make the distinction between 'Hillbilly' spelled with an '-a' and 'Hillbilly' spelled with an '-er'. Ain't gonna work, Chuck.
Assuming that the government has the power to take away guns from the law-abiding (despite the fact that our Constitution explicitly says that the government does not have the power, and the right to bear arms is in fact a right), either you allow people to defend themselves, or you take away arms from everybody.
Aside from the fact that there are hundreds of millions of guns already out there, one problem is that the people who enforce the prohibition need themselves to be armed. Such as military and police.
Such as this guy, who the military had ample reason to know was a dangerous nutcase, and did...apparently nothing.
I do not own a firearm. I am far more comfortable with the idea that thousands of my neighbors are armed, than with the idea that we should rely on our governmental institutions to keep us safe.
Or that we can rely on our courts and the mental health profession to spot the dangerous people.
Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts all have very low gun violence rates. All except MA have very permissive gun laws, and have had very permissive gun laws since, well, since the First Amendment said that people have the right to own guns. Massachusetts has among the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
Perhaps some other factors are at work.
But let's all panic and pass some more gun control laws. Because the previously well-behaved people of Maine have apparently all become suspect because one of them went nuts. Time to take away their guns!
The usual uninformed usual suspects beclown themselves yet again.
The rest of us firearm owners who didn't shoot anyone are lumped together with the nutjob that did kill people. The error in logic is staggering.
I'm kind of libertarianish on gun laws -- but maybe this would make sense:
Require every person in the State at the age of 30 [pick another age if you prefer] to apply for a concealed weapon permit. If the applicant passes, then, randomly select (say) one of 10, or of 20, or of 100, for special firearms training. If the selectee passes the special training, he/she will be REQUIRED to carry a concealed weapon in specified locations, and will be PERMITTED to do so whenever she/he chooses.
"Or that we can rely on our courts and the mental health profession to spot the dangerous people."
It would appear they're able to spot them. Unfortunately, they often do nothing about it until it's too late.
"If the selectee passes the special training, he/she will be REQUIRED to carry a concealed weapon in specified locations, and will be PERMITTED to do so whenever she/he chooses."
If it would be beneficial for "one of 10, or of 20, or of 100", wouldn't it be even better if everybody who wanted to be was included?
Godfather @ 5:34pm,
Not just no, but hell no!
And good grief, is there anything *less* than suggesting that a problem caused in part by government malfeasance be "fixed" buy some massive new intrusive government program?
Oops, a word fell out.
My last comment should read, "is there anything *less* libertarian...
The guy was hospitalized for mental illness a few weeks earlier, but released after a few days...
Do you know how difficult it is for we docs or these people's families to mandate treatment for such people? Blame the left civil rights movement that said being mentally ill is a human right, and the right who is too cheap to pay for expensive hospitalization..
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