The top-rated comment is so Reddit: "I find it the opposite of annoying. You’re telling me what your depth is as a music listener and what level of convo I should be expecting and how to respond accordingly. It gets rid of the guess work."
२३ सप्टेंबर, २०२३
"Anyone else get a little bugged when people say Dylan has a bad voice?"
"I love what Leonard Cohen said about his voice: 'Most music criticism is in the nineteenth century. It’s so far behind, say, the criticism of painting. It’s still based on nineteenth century art–cows beside a stream and trees and ‘I know what I like.’ There’s no concession to the fact that Dylan might be a more sophisticated singer than Whitney Houston, that he’s probably the most sophisticated singer we’ve had in a generation. Nobody is identifying out popular singers like a Matisse or Picasso. Dylan’s a Picasso — that exuberance, range, and assimilation of the whole history of music.'..."
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I have a certain tolerance for unusual voices which my wife does not share. She likes Dylan but rarely (if ever) picks it as something to listen to from the LPs. She bravely tolerates my love of warbly tenor Tom Verlaine (Television). Captain Beefheart makes her run from room.
Some times Dylan is an amazing singer, and some times he's a lazy schlub.
There are moments of genius in Dylan’s voice.
There are also moments of “well, that really doesn’t work but the lyrics are amazing.”
I love when it all comes together and he makes something that hits at every level - like Picasso. But, like Picasso, not everything works.
Dylan's a Picasso? Somebody needs a weatherman.
"There’s no concession to the fact that Dylan might be a more sophisticated singer than Whitney Houston, that he’s probably the most sophisticated singer we’ve had in a generation."
Oh, pull…eeze. I am reminded of Leo Kottke's description of his own singing voice: "Geese farts on a muggy day".
Dylan's timbre is not pleasant. Neither is Cohen's. You can say their voices convey emotion and grit, you can say that they deliver the lyrics in a powerful way. You cannot say that their resonance is beautiful.
How you define "voice" could fall into any of those categories, so good and bad are silly terms. However, Cohen and the commenter are full of shit if they think some kind of arty comparison about music criticism will make a voice soar.
Bob Dylan is either sharp, or flat, and the only brief moments he is in tune is when he is transitioning from too sharp to too flat, or vice versa. If he ever is in tune it is entirely by accident. The man just cannot sing.
A "more sophisticated singer than Whitney Houston"? You would have to be utterly tone deaf to believe that.
John and Ken (KFI Los Angeles) were taken off the air for a while and had to apologize for calling Whitney Houston a crack whore. They used to be fearless truth-tellers and nobody's listened to them since. Early cancel culture victims, anyway their art.
Even their friends (Armstrong and Getty) were amazed that they folded.
I pay no attention to his voice except that it's one voice in the mixture. It makes sense musically or it doesn't. Lay Lady Lay was good. I can't think offhand of another exceptional one but there probably were some.
Performers are sort of like new releases, one good track and 12 cuts of the band noodling around.
Anderson and Roe are my latest CD/DVD purchase.
Jimi Hendrix and Sheryl Crow both imitated him in their own way. Probably not the only ones.
So that's something.
It's not bad, it's distinctive.
But I've heard a lot of live Dylan recordings where he slurs and mumbles and he cannot be understood...at all.
Fans give him a pass because they know the words.
Everyone else? "What did he say?'
I enjoy the recorded versions of Dylan’s work… also enjoy recordings of his mid-60s live music with Bloomfield and then the Band.
Saw him live in 2009 and the songs were nearly unrecognizable and singing unintelligible. Biggest disappointment for me musically since the Clash in ‘82.
Oh, the subject is Bob Dylan. Based on the headline, I thought the subject was the gratingly affected voice of Dylan Mulvaney.
Oh, the subject is Bob Dylan. Based on the headline, I thought the subject was the gratingly affected voice of Dylan Mulvaney.
Forget the voice. How high is his Wikifeet rating? According to that site, Taylor Swift is the best singer of all time.
Dylan’s a Picasso
I agree that both Dylan and Picasso are over-hyped by the by the overly pretentious.
Whenever someone in the arts starts attacking something as "simple" or "old fashioned" or "Behind the times" or praising something because its "Sophisticated" "New" or "modern" its bullshit. There is no "old" or "Young" "Complex" or "Simple" in art. There is just good and bad.
Bob Dylan has a quirky, borderline adequate voice. Most of his songs sound better when someone else sings them. How often does Dylan "Cover" anyone else's songs?
Some people dislike his voice so much, they can't enjoy his songs. Others get used to it. A few like its quirky weirdness. But those who write that "only simpletons care about a singers voice" are being absurd, and lame.
We're getting into "that absract painting with squares > Rembrandt" because only rubes care about the ability to paint well. Sophistry. Bullshit on stilts.
Whenever someone in the arts starts attacking something as "simple" or "old fashioned" or "Behind the times" or praising something because its "Sophisticated" "New" or "modern" its bullshit. There is no "old" or "Young" "Complex" or "Simple" in art. There is just good and bad.
Bob Dylan has a quirky, borderline adequate voice. Most of his songs sound better when someone else sings them. How often does Dylan "Cover" anyone else's songs?
Some people dislike his voice so much, they can't enjoy his songs. Others get used to it. A few like its quirky weirdness. But those who write that "only simpletons care about a singers voice" are being absurd, and lame.
We're getting into "that absract painting with squares > Rembrandt" because only rubes care about the ability to paint well. Sophistry. Bullshit on stilts.
I guess Leonard Cohen didn't know much about 19th C paintings.
FWIW I'd much rather listen to six hours of Dylan or Cohen than 10 minutes of La Houston, and I'm not a yuge fan of either.
Ain't it just like the night to play
Tricks when you're trying to be so quiet?
We sit here stranded
Though we're all doing our best to deny it
And Louise holds a handful of rain, tempting you to defy it
Lights flicker from the opposite loft
In this room the heat pipes just cough
The country music station plays soft
But there's nothing, really nothing to turn off
Just Louise and her lover so entwined
And these visions of Johanna that conquer my mind...
Yeah, let Whitney Houston sing that, see if I cry, see if her voice makes me think of my first wife, who lived in New York, who I went to see, her and her new friends, to see if it could be saved.
Whitney was a crack whore. It’s unfortunate but she just was and I have seen her in action a few times (Her at the Spondivots Bar) with Bobby, who was cool.
I take crack whore back. Crack head works much better.
So what if some people don't like Dylan's voice. Why do people insist that everyone agree with them on everything.
In all seriousness, if you love Dylan, then love him. It shouldn't matter what anyone says about him. if you love his music, then love it. I can't imagine anyone but David Byrne singing for Talking Heads. I can't argue that he's a great singer, but his voice fits the music that he sings. Same with Dylan.
Nah. I hate it when other people determine what my taste should be. Dylan's voice is awful. Some think it's what makes him him. So be it. I get that. But it's not like it's a quirky voice. It's just plain awful. I can't get past it, never have been able to. I've tried multiple times in every decade since the 60s.
I love many kinds of music. And I love many kinds of vocals, not all of them great singers. Tom Waits. Frank Zappa. Elvis Costello. Leonard Cohen. Neil Young. But Dylan's voice is more like an annoying scraping of metal coupled with a nasal whiny person.
So, you Dylan purists can ooh and ahh at his majesty. I can't do it. I appreciate that he's considered one of the greats, and most certainly is one of our greatest songwriters. But...don't make me listen to it.
In the meantime, his contemporary, Paul Simon, is easily as good a songwriter, and can actually sing.
Let me have it.
So we aren't allowed to dislike Picasso and think him a blind alley in the history of art? Because he's PICASSO? I recognise that Cohen - who I like very much as a poet - is choosing him as an example, but the point applies for anyone else he might choose. I also like Dylan and think him valuable. But it's just cool-kids snobbery to dislike more melodious voices or calm landscapes and set yourself above the masses that way.
"Have you ever been to Spain?"
"Well, I've been to Madrid."
"Oh my dear, you haven't been to Spain!
Cognitive dissonance or audible din?
Dylan's voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Words like “bad” and “good” are pretty much useless when describing Dylan’s voice. I introduced my wife to Dylan’s charms by playing “Man in the Long Black Coat” for her and calling his singing effective, which was understatement that spoke to her.
Oh, well.
Can’t expect everyone to agree about everything.
He sounds like a kazoo.
"Don’t you understand
It’s not my problem"
Not very many people can cover a Dylan song and have it come out as good. Mr Tamborine Man? Dylan's version was better than The Byrds. I don't know of a Dylan cover that was better than the original. But I like black coffee too, and some people need to dump cream and sugar into it until it doesn't really taste like coffee anymore. I would love to be able to hear a recording of Charles Dickens reading his stories. We will never have that, but we have Bob singing his songs.
I came to appreciate Dylan late, probably due to Spotify, but when people say he can't sing, I just laugh.
But here's Rolling Stone's list of the 80 greatest Dylan covers, so maybe I will poke around a bit and listen to some.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/best-bob-dylan-songs-covers-1167988/william-shatner-mr-tambourine-man-1968-1169893/
To someone who loves Dylan, or even likes him, his voice and delivery are all part of the art, enhancing the lyrics and the message. If you don't like him or take the time to cultivate a taste for his music, he sounds like shit. I think his music is a gift.
Saw him live in 2009 and the songs were nearly unrecognizable and singing unintelligible. Biggest disappointment for me musically since the Clash in ‘82
Lead singer of the Clash, Joe Strummer, on why he didn't try hard to pronounce the words of the songs... he replied, "that takes all the piss out of them"
For Christmas my son once bought me a Dylan Collection because I liked his music, but then he told me he couldn’t understand liking a voice like that.
OK. But when we first liked Dylan was when he was a folk singer in 62-63. After that his voice was what conveyed his sublime lyrics. Nobody said he sounded like Barbara Streisand. We had Joan Baez if we wanted to hear a sweet voice.
And Bob had her too.
Lol. No. Dylan is a shit singer. Period. End of discussion. Picasso sucks too so he can be Picasso.
We will concede all of this. Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen can apply compare their singing to the most ridiculous expressions of modern art. As for me I'll take Rembrandt and Renoir.
This in no way detracts from their brilliant lyrics, they are simply not famous for their vocals.
I double-clutched on “art-cows”. Did it mean sophisticated heifers? Standard punctuation is a thing I miss about the 20th century.
I don't know of a Dylan cover that was better than the original.
Jimi's "All Along the Watchtower"
Guns and Roses "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
Byrd's "Mr. Tambourine Man"
"Saw him live in 2009 and the songs were nearly unrecognizable"
He does a terrible live show. Hands down the worst.
I guess he just likes to hang out with musicians.
I'm bugged by people who believe Bobby is a genius: poet/lyricist/songwriter/singer/performer. Needless to say, I grew up when music was fun and danceable, not some whiny socio/politico/economic ignorance set to bad music.
Dylan is a bard, which is somewhere between being a poet and a singer. A genius in both.
‘Guns and Roses "Knocking on Heaven's Door" ‘
You must be joking! Caterwauling would be a generous description of that attempt at singing. I’d be motivated to shoot a cat if it carried on like that in my backyard.
Dylan's timbre is not pleasant. Neither is Cohen's. You can say their voices convey emotion and grit, you can say that they deliver the lyrics in a powerful way. You cannot say that their resonance is beautiful.
And also:
He sounds like a kazoo.
I'm a singer. I worked for years to train my voice to do what I wanted it to do in whatever situation - conveying emotion with or without amplification, reaching the back of a large hall. I am an amateur and I can sing circles around Dylan.
I can't write a song to save my life.
Let people be excellent at what they're excellent at, and don't blow smoke up my skirt about what they can't do.
I have no opinion of Dylan's voice, his music is of no concern to me. Dylan's talent is that he's a poet, much like Springsteen, and I never liked listening to either of them. For both of them, the most complimentary thing I can say is that their songs are better in reading than listening.
As if *sophistication* were the basis of aesthetic merit.
Which I suppose it is to a very shallow, boring set of people.
You peasants who simply don't understand the greatness of Bob Dylan obviously are unaware of the fact that in 2016 he won the Nobel Prize for Physics.
Bad voice?
Louis Armstrong could not be reached for comment.
"Ah cain't sign for ya tunnight,, folks---I got a frog in my throat."
Leonard Cohen is Dylan on Thorazine.
As to covers of Dylan’s songs, Hendrix’s All Along the Watchtower is the greatest cover of all time. By the way, I recommend the Move’s cover of Tom Paxton’s “The Last Thing on My Mind” as #2 and Mott the Hoople’s cover of “Sweet Jane” as #3. As to Dylan’s voice, effective used above is very appropriate. One of my favorite’s in that vein is Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door.
So the idea is that music critics are too conservative? Hmm, I don’t buy it.
If only Dylan had been gifted with a fine voice, like Englebert Humperdinck.
I'm not so much of a fan that I would be annoyed by such a comment, but I am into Dylan enough that I instantly noticed when his voice changed on recordings (into what I consider the mature Dylan) and I was really pleased with it.
De gustibus ain't what it used to be.
No one has ever accused Bob Dylan of being able to sing. He’s a writer poet who performs with music. Bravo to Dylan for continuing his tour at 82 years old.
Dylan’s magic and genius is that he’s able to encompass so much of the human experience in timeless ways. And laughter and humor are an important dimension of that experience. Here’s another example of Dylan’s wit: When asked at a press conference by a “Ballad of a Thin Man” type reporter to say what his songs are about, he answered (paraphrasing): Some are about 3 minutes, some are about 5 minutes, another is about 11 minutes.” The room then erupts in laughter. His sarcastic wit is brilliant. Dylan will not easily morph into any of the pre-constructed pigeon holes.
Another one of Dylan’s greats accomplishment was introducing us to the Band, when he chose them as a last minute replacement band at the Newport folk festival in 1965.
Tom Brady was a lousy runner.
Pedro Martinez couldn't hit.
Dylan is a lousy singer.
Although his voice is perfect for "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" and "Hard Rain Gonna Fall"
A lot of people think that Neil Young and Willie Nelson can't sing either, but they've sold millions and millions of records, just like Dylan. Obviously, a LOT of people enjoy their singing.
Dylan's voice is really much better than it sounds.
You can say their voices convey emotion and grit, you can say that they deliver the lyrics in a powerful way. You cannot say that their resonance is beautiful.
I can say that about Dylan in a lot of his songs. "Sign on the Window" and "Blind Willie Mctell" are two that come to mind. Can't imagine Whitney Huston doing either of those songs without wincing. Same goes for any of the great opera singers.
Some people are drawn to and profundly moved by Dylan's singing. Others are repulsed. My guess is there's a genetic component to this, sort of like why Cilantra tastes like soap to some people. Myself, I have a genetic aversion to Opera.
How often does Dylan "Cover" anyone else's songs?
Fairly often. He's done 5 albums of covers that I can think of and often does them in his concerts.
I don't 'think' that Neil Young and Willie Nelson can't sing, I know they can't sing.
And I have none of their albums to prove it.
Singing involves multiple skills, and it is mostly meaningless to say that singer A is better than singer B without breaking them down. Which singer has the better (and better-trained) vocal instrument? The better musical phrasing? Which voice better suits the genre in which the singer performs? Which singer best interprets and amplifies the mood and meaning of lyrics? Few singers excel on all of those points (I’m looking at you, Joni), and each listener will have a different idea of how to weight them and what combination is optimal.
'I don't 'think' that Neil Young and Willie Nelson can't sing, I know they can't sing.'
Willie, like Bob, is a great songwriter. The difference is, Willie can be understood when singing live.
I love listening to Willie singing his own songs. When he does covers it is painful...
Cohen's voice is not so hot, either.
I have no problem with the songwriter-character Willie Nelson--far from it. I just don't think he's a good singer. Same as Dylan.
Whitney Houston just never appealed to me--like her costar Costner. Ugh.
If Dylan were capable of singing on pitch with a healthy tone and chose not to for artistic reasons, this whole discussion would have merit. But it turns out that he is in fact not capable of singing on pitch or making a healthy tone, so the description of him as a bad singer is correct.
Morrissey devours them all.
Or Elton John,
Or Freddie Mercury,
Or George Micheal…
>>>>Another one of Dylan’s greats accomplishment was introducing us to the Band, when he chose >>>>them as a last minute replacement band at the Newport folk festival in 1965.
Not in 1965. Dylan's band that evening included two musicians who had played on his recently released single "Like a Rolling Stone": Mike Bloomfield on lead guitar and Al Kooper on organ. Two of Bloomfield's bandmates from the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, bassist Jerome Arnold and drummer Sam Lay, also appeared at Newport, as well as Barry Goldberg on piano.
The Band (formerly the Hawks) started playing with Dylan on a tour that began in September 1965.
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